Any mosfet based controller will probably be built from N-channel mosfets. On the high side mosfets all the Drains from all 3 phases will connect to BATT+. There Sources will split up for the 3 phase busses. Low side mosfets, all the Sources will commonly connect to BATT- and their Drains will split up for the 3 phase busses. The 3 sets of copper pads in the center of the board are the phase busses. If you look at the TOLL package, Drain is the large copper pad on the back of the mosfet and the many legs are Source (except one for gate).

@@de-bodgery ahhh I'm so silly. Of course since the drain would have the heat sink connection. I'm always thinking about the gate driver design where it is all referenced around HV- and the phase. Thanks for correcting me!

@@GrenYT Typical mosfet gates can't handle more than 20v. Gate drive electronics have to account for this. So for low side, it's easy, just apply 0v or 12v in reference to BATT- and the mosfets turn on and off just fine. High side mosfets reference the ever changing pack voltage so they can "pretend" to reference a maximum of 20v for source to gate. Gate drive electronics need to "know" how far less than the BATT+ voltage is going to shut off the high side mosfets, but not be too little so they float or gate voltage is exceeded. It's a bit more complicated, but modern gate driver IC's handle this. I think it's this detail that you were really thinking about.

Did you look at the The One upgrade kit? This motor is the EC4P POS with a better shaft and new end cap to accommodate a different bearing. How is this fixing any of the intrinsic issues of the EC4P??? Its just the same dismally BAD motor with a different shaft!!!

If you can get a SOCO TC Max, they are quite nice! I had one for a while until it was stolen about 7 months ago. Ride is great, braking is great. Power and range are average, but usable. If I was trying to buy an EV for me, I'd try to get another of these. If a small motor cycle sized EV is too large for you, nothing wrong with the City.

@@de-bodgery Thanks for your answer. What are the advantages of the 15" tyres and how does the City stack up against other more heavy duty but perhaps better value scooters with 11-14" wheels by the likes of Kaboo, Teverun, Vsett, Obarter or something like a generic Chinese T8?

@@powertreadssupremacy I don't know about the others, but Teverun...had to work on a bunch of those. The frame and build is pretty nice, but the pack and electronics are crap. IF the electronics were as good as the frame and general build quality, I'd recommend them, but 80% electronics failure rates is pretty pathetic! So the City uses 10" rims which is a standard size and easy to find replacement tires from good brands. Other scooters with smaller rims/tires...you are nearly always limited to Chinese tires.

@@de-bodgery Alright. I've narrowed it down to the City or going through importing the Roadrunner pro or Ecells step star. Have you worked on the Roadrunner pro? P.S. I wrote another follow up earlier that was censored. I'm in NZ and and need the bike to fly under the radar without registration so big and loud are a no go.

@@powertreadssupremacy No idea why YT does that to comments. I run across it from time to time and so your other comment, I just responded to it in line with what you did get to post. I don't know anything about those EV's you mentioned so I don't have an opinion on them. I notice of you post a URL in a comment that YT censors those consistently. Other times, I have no idea why the YT AI does what it does.

Stick with VESC first of all! STR500, Seven, Tronic are all repairable.

Really... "Amateur-ish design choices"? Care to be specific instead of making an unqualified statement?

Is it that good?

no

Spintend is a little better than Flipsky.

TOLT mosfets are 2.5MM thick. Even the added copper on the bottom of the SEVEN 30 which lays flat on the board has to be thinner than that. About all you can really do is lay some copper across the phase busses on the bottom of the board due to thickness constraints of the mosfet package.

Maybe, but it will a while if someone doesn't donate or lend one to me.

Why wouldn't it? It's VESC after all.

Keep watching my videos. I answer this question.

Yup...agreed...said that several times in this video.

Watch the video...all in there!

Trampa STR500 uses those studs like you describe. They solder them in place too. Pretty sure they will never sheer off! The BAC8000 I have for repair, the phase solder pad is completely eroded away. Nothing to solder onto like you describe! I have to entirely depot the controller, remove it from the shell and then use a brass screw via the underside and some added copper foil on the top side to even get a decent current path back.

Yeaaahh nice to see my favourite electronics geek friends on every new controller video haha

Electrolytic construction isn't much different from NMC cell construction. NMC can be a jelly role for cylindrical cells or many thin sets of cells stacked together to get a pouch or rectangular cell. Caps in cans are just a jelly role, but they could be made with many thin layers as well so the cap is a rectangle. Ceramic caps are many thin sections of ceramic with aluminum deposited on the ceramic and many layers of that all stacked on top of each other to make a capacitor. Foil sheets and an insulator between them is done already. Thin film caps are made that way in rectangular shells.

@@de-bodgery Yes that's what i'm saying. I work in battery industry. Anode, separator and cathode.. in a roll or a stack.. but for the form factor, the joules of storage capacity per apparent surface on teh pcb would be better if square than round... this woudl allow to stack more joules or to stack then closer to the fets

@@Doctorbasss Yes...well can style electrolytics are abundant and cheap. Probably why you see them so much. I do agree that close as possible to the mosfets is best. I've been following your YT channel for years. Sometimes I watch your content more than others. I don't think I knew you worked on batteries for a living...just as a hobby.

@@de-bodgery I dont share my consultingwork on the internet. Only personnal projects. I indirectly worked on projects for Lucid, Tesla, Rivian, ZERO, Rimac, BRP and many others. Last time I was employe I was developping ultra quick laser welding machine for large EV battery production.

@@Doctorbasss Very cool! So laser welding...was that for the 4680? PRetty sure, what you've done...your battery experience is in high demand.

Thanks maaaate!!

Hi...ping me on Facebook : Richard Gumfaw

Motors that operate at 131v/32S are already plentiful. 400v motors are pretty common too. There's plenty of options of motors designed with low enough KV's and tested for 400v applications. Never mind all the used motor market from electric or hybrid cars.

I agree that low voltages are nice; but you dont really have much leeway in Kv/Kt actually; in practice there is a pretty hard floor due to the realities of practical motor construction. Im working right now on a design wound with a split pair of 2x3 phases, with two independent controllers on the same motor; effectively putting the controllers in series and getting double the effective voltage to tame your R and L. This is pretty common in electric aircraft for redundancy, but it also makes for very peppy light EVs while staying under the 75V legal limit for low voltage devices.

@@eelcohoogendoorn8044 Low voltage means high current. Is rather have higher voltage. I run a 6 phase motor on dual controllers myself. They aren't in series. This is effectively 2 motors wound on the same stator in parallel. Where are you located that you can't exceed 75v? This isn't the case in the USA. I can build at whatever voltage I want here.

​@@de-bodgery you can exceed 75v anywhere; but in the EU its no longer a low voltage device and different regulations apply. Regulations aside, im also happier with the lower voltage myself, as far as batteries I have to plug and unplug, let along actual work on something. Since phase currents are independent from all this; the only place the extra current might bother you is in the bus. It depends on the application I suppose but adding an extra mm2 of bus wire usually isnt the issue

@@de-bodgery The two motors wound on the same stator sounds like exactly the thing im talking about btw. Im calling that 'in series' since you have effectively half the L and R to push against per controller while the same phase current limits apply.

Yes it's possible, but unlikely, VESC is very resilient against bricking as a general statement. It has 2 storage locations in flash for firmware. It loads from one and then installs new firmware in the other. If something goes wrong, the CPU can still boot from the other storage location. This is never 100% sure, but it does add a layer of redundancy that most other firmware operations in other controllers lack! If the new firmware loads and boots successfully, only then does the backup older copy get over written with the new firmware. Having said that, you still have USB, UART and SWDIO for reflashing and recovery if they are bricked. Id try USB first...see if the PC based app can connect to them and then use VESCtool to update the firmware according to the video that Flipsky has on their channel. I've used that exact procedure many times on their controllers without issues. IF you need the firmware to use with an STlink and SWDIO, contact Flipsky to get that.

Well the primary symptom I’ve identified is no USB. I’ve powered it with a lab supply and I get a blue light but nothing enumerates when I plug in USB. I’ve tried multiple boards, multiple cables and multiple computers. I hooked everything up and applied a signal through the servo input just to see if it would respond but the unit isn’t even drawing enough current to boot the processor.

@@lusher00 Ping me on facebook. USB applies 5v to the controller and then the 3.3v supply ought to power up to and that's what powers the CPU. At least LED's ought to light up! Seems you have something else going on possibly and not bricked CPU's from a bad flash.

@@de-bodgery I’m not sure how to ping you on Facebook. I’ll have to investigate. I don’t believe Vbus is connected on the supplied USB cables. They are only 3 wire so I would assume D+/- & ground. I have LED’s on when I supply power but I don’t know what a solid blue LED means.

@@lusher00 Richard Gumfaw

Yeah...a little over a month since my Spintend video...definitely slowed down video content with everything stolen! Lots of things I can't do anymore with no cameras, no electronics equipment, no EV parts, no machines to the tune of about $70,000!!! Watt Wheels claims "I ruined his business", when thanks to all my equipment he stole, if anything, I made his capabilities 10X better!!! In between time, I've got nothing but my laptop!!!

@@de-bodgery yeah that stunk. the universe always finds balance

@@lezbriddon So i must have been a royal shit in a past life if the "universe finds balance"! In this life, the "universe" for the second time has laid a world of hurt on me!

@@de-bodgery haha no I don't subscribe to the previous life thing I reckon the universe will get him in this one somehow

To whom or what are you referring? I can tell you I'm no scammer. I firmly believe that if its wrong for it to happen to me, it's wrong for me to do it to others! I'm far from perfect at being non-hypocritical, but Its what I try to do with everything! As a result, I'm a strong supporter of Ukraine. I know I wouldn't want to be invaded, destroyed, robbed and killed...so it's equally WRONG to happen to them! If trying to be honest and truthful and true to my word and consistent in how I treat others vs myself makes me a scammer...if that's your implication...then so be it. I have to say, that's got to be the most bizarre definition of a "scammer" I've ever seen! You might want to look up what that word means.

@@de-bodgery I’m not sure why you would bring a political argument to this at all, particularly because the reality of your example is much more complicated than a 2d version you have laid out. Anyhow, I like your channel and find your efforts both useful and informative in other regards. Take care!

Yeah customer ignorance, hype marketing and total disregard for their customers! That's how.

works for me

@@de-bodgery In Russia they cut off

@@vova4585 Yeah...get a VPN...plenty of those for free or cheap so you can circumvent your tyrannical government and hide your internet traffic.

VP4+ will definitely do all of that for you

@@de-bodgery Thank you for your attention.

I've never tried the 4L or taken one apart...I don't have an opinion on it.

"Spintend 85-250" and discussing it in the video pretty much says it all.

probably, but I don't know if such a spring exists.

@@de-bodgery do you think that if i cut one circle of the spring, it will be lighter to twist?

@@niklaspalmlof2005 You have to wind up the spring a full turn to get the tension it has from the factory. I think if you don't wind it all, you'll have that softer pull you want.

micro soldering is a skill in itself and way more than most people can do.

IF I had the controller...

Did you see my repair video for a KO Pro controller? It's not different for the FSPEC or Rush controllers, but I can do that for you. Hit me up on FB.

I used kapton tape

Hi Jimmy...I believe I've already reached out to you on Facebook....aka Richard Gumfaw. If not, ping me please.

Watch the videos...all in them

I think you've missed the point of smart BMS! This isn't sad, it's excellent! Your dumb BMS can't tell you anything about pack status or be programmed for differing charge and discharge and balancing profiles...all things you can do with a smart BMS! Your dumb BMS can't tell you state of charge or if your pack is performing badly. You have no logging capability either, but you do with a JBD smart BMS! For these reasons, I'll never use a dumb BMS again!

@@de-bodgery I have missed no points. I don't believe you even read my posting. Complicated technology, no instructions, no independence security. This is my first battery bank where I had to install any kind of BMS, dumb or smart. I always used a voltmeter, load tester and performed an equalization charge when I could. Simple. The worst of all is if we in the US ever get into a conflict with China, my system could be shut down.

@@ForbiddTV I read your entire comment more than once. You are entitled to your opinion about smart hardware being "inferior" due to its robust feature set, but I can also say that everything you need to do externally, a smart BMS does itself. As someone that has been using smart BMS's since 2015, I'd never go back! If you are looking for someone to fight with, I'm not going to argue with you. What I will say however is that smart BMS's are far superior to dumb ones or no BMS every day of the year! Do yourself a favor and learn how to use a smart BMS. It's not rocket science and frankly once you do, you won't be going back to whatever you use now.

@@de-bodgery I'm trying to learn how to set it up, they sold me this piece of junk with 28 wires sticking out of it with not one wiring diagram or word of instructions, even in Chinese. "Everything you need to do externally, a smart BMS does itself". Not if it can't even be hooked up. None of my other previous batteries ever needed a BMS, in fact no such thing even existed. We are going backwards in technology.

@@ForbiddTV Did you contact the seller for wiring instructions? Did you google for them? Wiring a BMS to a pack is pretty easy. I rarely look at the wiring diagram since the silk screening on the BMS itself tells you what each wire does. Probably best bet for you is to go back to horse pulled wagons and oil lamps since this is all "too advanced" for you!