053 - F-4 Phantom II (part 2)

[@SimDeck]

A superb conversation. They tell these stories with the detail I want to here. Just incredible.

[@Fast85FoxGT]

That colonel telling him that he was sorry for the suffering he experienced was extremely powerful. Wow.

[@bjovers1]

Hi! Im a new listener and I just want to let you know that these stories deserve to be on the big screen. Make it happen!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

My son is entering a film college--will work on it!

[@demoteam44]

Hearing these gentlemen tell their incredible stories, and listening to other naval aviators react to the same stories is exactly why I love this podcast! Thank you! Keep em coming!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome. 🙏

[@thebgpikester]

I could listen to Fingers for hours, he's got one of those voices that's so soothing, despite the content of what he was saying. Fascinating and compelling interview Jello, thanks for finding these guys. Personally looking forward to Eagle Dynamics doing an F-4 simulator, it was massive over here in the UK too. Love that big ugly aircraft.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

😎

[@johnd.8224]

AQ2, VF121, Feb, '68 to Jan '71. Thanks gentlemen. What a treat.

[@SkyBiscoff]

Awesome Job Guys, keep'em coming! my grandfather flew the Phantom and then the BUFF in Vietnam, Loved learning so much on the machine and the environment he was flying! I still have his POH for the F4. Amazing story from Cpt. Ensch, a true American!

[@javaace9746]

I'm so glad that "Fingers" talked in detail about their Mig kills! I stumbled across their mission on the old show Dog Fights. When I saw the CGI of that departed flip ...... I literally dropped my jaw open! I may have peed a little. Why do we not see this move in movies? It should be in Top Gun 2 ... but I digress. I hope it's okay but I'm including a link to that old episode. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5e0h5iee8-pl6s (If you jump to 23:36 on the Dog Fights video) that's where Mugs & Fingers story starts). The quality of this copy is quite low, it appears that it was recorded with a toaster...but I appreciate the conveniance none the less. BTW: Tiger was great too and another brilliant show gentlemen.

[@justingallegos1941]

My great uncle flew F4’s for the air force in Vietnam, crazy times for aviation.. thanks for this!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome. 🙏

[@bulldog282]

This is the episode that I have so patiently waited for, and I definitely want to hear more. The F-4 was the first aircraft that I crewed, my first assignment (79-83) was at Clark AB in the Philippines in the 90th TFS and I crewed both the "E" model and the "G" model, but mostly the "G" (69-0265 & 69-7208). It would be nice if you could interview pilots that flew all makes of the aircraft, and from all the branches of the service that flew her, alas that would be a podcast show of it's own due to the mountains of information and interesting stories. Tiger and Fingers expressed the feelings that most of us feel for her, but they barely scratched the service, but there are many books written about her and web sites dedicated to her. Phantoms Phorever!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Finding guests is already a challenge. Trying to find someone who flew all makes of the aircraft would be extremely challenging. Sounds great in a perfect world but we believe in "good enough."

[@ShamuXEagleDriver]

Great gents, true American heros with fantastic stories! Finger's callsign change at 48:15 is "best seen to date" on this podcast thus far. Cheers, Shamu

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks, Shamu!

[@AvengerII]

About the sooty trail from the GE J79 engines -- Later in the career of the Phantom (mid-1970s; halfway through its general US service), they modified the engines to run hotter. The modification as I understand was carried out on most American F-4 models. The Navy F-4N and F-4S definitely got smokeless engines. Supposedly the same smokeless J79s were installed in a few F-4J models, too. I'm presuming at least the F-4E and F-4G in USAF received smokeless engine modifications. The smokeless mod took care of the soot trail at the expense of shortening the lives of the J79 engines. The US armed forces didn't care because the F-4 was standing down gradually. They'd have spare parts for many years as the F-4 force was whittled down when more Teen Fighters replaced the F-4s in front-line and reserve units. At this point, there was also well over 10,000 J79s in service worldwide! The smokeless J79 modification was offered to US allies. The Germans, btw, didn't carry this modification out on their F-4s specifically because it reduced engine component life. The Germans operated their Phantoms probably about 15 years longer than they had originally intended (to keep the plane in service) so it was probably for the best for their fleet that they didn't do the engine modification! I noticed in retirement videos that the German F-4s smoked quite a bit. Japanese and Korean F-4s probably all have the engine modification but they're going to retire their planes fairly soon. The last Japanese F-4s retire next year.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Excellent info, thank you!

[@AvengerII]

@@FighterPilotPodcast I was wrong about the Japanese F-4 retirement! They had a few F-4s flying into 2021. I think they were all assigned to test duty. Their last frontline F-4s were retired in 2020. There are probably fewer than 80 operational F-4s IN THE WORLD now. I believe South Korea is on the verge of retiring their last F-4s if they haven't done that already. Like Japan, South Korea has delayed the F-4 retirement because they can't afford to retire them and want to keep their force numbers up. Greece and Turkey probably have fewer than 25 operational F-4s. I think the Iranian F-4s are basket-cases held together with baling wire and are probably only marginally more operational than the Iranian F-14s are in general. They claim 60-80 F-4s are left in the Iranian Air Force inventory but I doubt more than 20 of them can actually fly! In the US, only the Collings Foundation operates an F-4, a D-model that occasionally doesn't fly for years as it goes through maintenance (re: funding!) cycles. There's an F-4 A-model another private group is trying to get flying again but the closest it's gotten to that is taxiing. I doubt that A-model will fly again...

[@petertimowreef9085]

14:53 "And I said uhh Mugz, 8 'o clock, trackin shootin uhh do some of that pilot stuff" is such a funny line. And then his pilot responding by performing a highly succesful back-flip outside the flight enveloppe haha, I guess that was exactly the kind of pilot stuff Mr. Ensch was talking about.

[@ericpress6192]

WOW! As a civilian, listening to these guys is humbling, well most military stories makes us civi’s feel a little humbled. Thank you Fingers for sharing!

[@hvymtal8566]

"I don't want to extend this discussion for another 30 minutes" -Exactly what happens. I would say we don't mind but that's not fully honest Don't mind? We eat this s*** up!!!!!

[@jasonsong86]

Great episode. The most relatable story is the airshows and being able to be near the planes touch them. Growing up in China, this was unthinkable. Even private pilot license is still unthinkable in China these days.

[@jasonsong86]

"Fingers"'s story was so powerful. No freedom is free. Thank you guy's service so people like me can come live in this wonderful country and experience things otherwise can never be experienced in their own countries.

[@zebombsaway]

Love the show! Great content. I would love to see an f-15 episode! (Unless I’ve missed it in the playlist). Please keep up the awesome work!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Spoke with a potential guest earlier today. Working on it!

[@gregstapp1684]

great guests and another great podcast Thank you Tiger and Fingers for your service !!!

[@justins8484]

As soon as i finish watching all the episodes over the past 2 months and realise im out. 5 minutes later part 2 is released.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome! 😉

[@spacebear49]

I could listen to Capt. Ensch all day. What a guy with an incredible story. Him and his main pilot (Mugs) were also featured on an episode of "Dogfights" as well.

[@PrimarchX]

Great stuff. Loved the stories behind the call signs!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

No doubt.

[@mycroft1905]

Outstanding interview! Moved by Capt. Ensch's story and wisdom.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Agreed, and his humility.

[@Mark_Ocain]

They revised the combustor cans in the J-79. That was the fix for all that nasty smoke LOL

[@mark64griffin20]

As ever gentlemen, highly entertaining. Great to hear the stories from the guests. Keep up the excellent work!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Will do! 😎

[@jimporter7602]

Great episodes, worked in the F 4E engine shop at Homestead AFB in 69-70 and RF-4C and F 4D at Udorn RTAFB 70-71

[@LRRPFco52]

+ 100 for Chip Berke. Very interesting and unique story with unicorn opportunities in his career.

[@LRRPFco52]

That was an awesome interview.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thank you.

[@derekwilson6085]

Simply amazing Love these podcasts, this one is particularly good, keep up the good work

[@hellcat611]

Great interview. Love hearing from the old guys.

[@garypashley3636]

Excellent series, Godspeed Cdr Michael Doyle VF-161 02/13/1943-08/25/1972 Some gave all..

[@donno1970]

There's a made for TV movie called Red Flag the Ultimate Game which I thing I mentioned on the F-5 episode. You can watch it here on KZbin. It's not great but worth a watch for the aircraft.

[@modscientist9793]

Jack and Mugs dogfight is covered in detail in The History Channel Dogfights series..if I remember there is cockpit audio as well?

[@Ha11yw00d]

Thank you gentlemen for sharing with us, and thanks to Jello and Sunshine for all the work you've done for aviation. Keep it up!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome. 🙏

[@RCAvhstape]

One movie that features the F-4 in action was Forest Gump, the combat scene where Forest carries his wounded buddies out of the ambush, a couple of Phantoms roll in and obliterate the enemy at the end of the scene.

[@RCAvhstape]

There's also a Phantom lurking on the edges of a scene in Flight of the Intruder.

[@gustavorocha78]

Amazing episode! Can’t stop listening.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Glad to hear, thanks!

[@modscientist9793]

That was an awesome podcast!

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Re: F-14 IRST: The first production build F-14As had a prototype IRST AND the TCS. They realized the IRST didn't work and removed it entirely. The RIO pit has a switch on the radar panel for the IRST that was disabled after the "prototype" IRST was removed. The IRST on the F-14D was an entirely different IRST unit with far more capability.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Good to know. 👍

[@simflier8298]

Please, make a Part 3!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Funny you should ask, they answered listener questions that we feature on our Patreon page... www.patreon.com/posts/28540457

[@spacedmanspiff1543]

I would have campaigned for Ensch "worm".....grin. great history lesson Gents !! Grew up with an F-4 poster on my bedroom wall....

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

💪

[@USNRaptor]

The May 23 MiG engagement can be played on Jane's Fighters Anthology with the usnraptor playset installed. It can be found here: myplace.frontier.com/~usnraptor/. I believe the battle was depicted in an episode of Dogfights.

[@USNRaptor]

F-4 in Movies: It played the MiG-29 in Iron Eagle 2. It saved Jake & Cole in Flight of the Intruder. Clint Eastwood brushed up on his dogfighting in Firefox. Pretty sure (iirc) it was used in Red Flag with William Devane. Two F-4s tried to catch Airwolf in the episode Moffett's Ghost.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Okay, I'm willing to admit all of those except Iron Eagle 2--that was an abomination that does not deserve mention.

[@dct124]

Thank you 🙏🏾

[@thwiftlythwept7023]

It would be amazing if someone created animated accompaniment to parts of these interviews. Call Mike Judge or someone.

[@loganfriesen8145]

Can't wait for the B-52 ep :)

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Coming up during "bomber month" (like Shark Week, only better!)

[@jettsetter7]

Gelo I feel like they had WAY more stories to give!!!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Didn’t want to abuse the generosity of their time.

[@scootermcgee6375]

Great stuff, as always.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

🙏

[@IWSFODD]

Can we do an F-15 sometime? Would be cool if we can get another Air Force fighter and I'm addicted to all air to air stories.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Working on it, and the F-22.

[@spacebear49]

I would have loved to meet either one of those great gentlemen, and great Americans (that goes for the hosts, too), over any of the commonly regarded so-called "celebrities"... x100. 🇺🇲

[@serpicosilkwood4664]

Great account of the F4 vs MiG interaction. Really well told and detailed! Amazing. My only disappointment was the opinions expressed on post-war Vietnam - that the country is held back by communism while benefiting from capitalism. The belief that people don't have choices within the country is misguided. After a draw in Korea, the US lost the American War in Vietnam, and can't seem to get past it.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Hmm. I'm past it.

[@stevewilson4514]

I think unlearned and ignorant people who haven’t served in the military might not have gotten over it. But during my years of service none of those I served with seemed to have fixated on it. Or talked about it. From the military’s point of view, the big take-away was that the politicians have the unique ability to snatch defeat from the mouth of victory.

[@BIGFOOTJEEPER92]

My home town has f4 all over the place painted on the walls in Visalia CA and 1 f4 parked next to a b17 in front of Tulare airport as well

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Former neighbors! Lived in Hanford for years.

[@BIGFOOTJEEPER92]

I probly watch you in a few air shows back in the day at lamore too

[@spacebear49]

It almost sounds like Mugs and Fingers were the real-life Maverick and Goose. Minus the flat spin accident.

[@DavidWilliams-nq6fj]

There was an ABC Sunday night movie, back in the early 80's, called Red Flag. It featured the F 4 and could best be described as Top Gun meets Knotts Landing.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Nice. 👍

[@MongooseTacticool]

I was on the Midway in May 2018... I might have met him!

[@SimDeck]

I just made a note on my phone to contact you on the DCS forums then I came here to listen to the second episode and here you are :). I'm an ex serviceman myself. Not Navy though I was a grunt in The British Army. If you'er still OK with crewing up on the Tomcat or any other MP I will give you a shout. I work full time so weekends are my main free time.

[@andrewchr]

51:12 True

[@scarcatch]

Was there a chance Ret. Brig. Gen. Steve Ritchie wouldve taken part in the F4 episode? He also has a good stories about his carrier in the Phanton.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

We never considered him. Tiger and Fingers are local which makes recording easier.

[@scarcatch]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Fair game, amazing interview. Thx for the effort.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@scarcatch sure thing.

[@palehorsegameplay]

I actually got to see him fly his Phantom at an airshow once, flanked by two F-104 Starfighters. Still, to this day, one of the coolest aviation things I've experienced.

[@billdewahl7007]

Interview a Viggen pilot! Idk how you'd find one though lol

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

We're working on it...

[@billdewahl7007]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Hehe. Thank you! P.s. I've got a brother who flew both the F-15 and F-22 and I believe taught on both of them. I'll shoot him an email if you'd like but I'm not sure how interested he'd be in any interview anyway. (he's still active duty and I'm sure you guys have better resources than I) Looking forward to any of your podcasts! and no rush! I've still got content to catch up on anyway!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@billdewahl7007 We're always on the lookout for great guests, Bill, and many are still active duty. If your brother is interested, send him our way!

[@billdewahl7007]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Wilco

[@D0cJekyll]

You should get Mike Jones aka Garand Thumb on youtube for SERE stuff.

[@theyoungbloods7249]

I would love a sere episode

[@BlackWinter71]

What was that exploitation program they mentioned? Something about the f4 pilot knowing the mig17 weaknesses.

[@OhItsThat]

Can you get some Thud pilots on here?

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Sure

[@nodnerbhu]

Hey, Late night upload!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

The beauty of a team mate in Australia!

[@pontiacGXPfan]

to this day, there is no jet more repulsive and cursed with nicknames than the F-4

[@nuttyhyperone8098]

Air wolf tv show few clips and movie Iron eagle 2 movie as migs.

[@palehorsegameplay]

What jackwagon gave this video a thumbs down?

[@fox394th]

:D , ..

[@tabascoindy5005]

These real life veteran stories make movies like top gun looks fake, hoax, counterfeit, cheap, useless, waste of time, cheesy, idiot, etc.....