070 - A-4 Skyhawk

* * Update February 7, 2023: We just learned of the tragic passing of our guest on this episode, Steven Briggs. RIP, admiral. * * *
Few aircraft capture the imagination like the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk. Designed for a carrier-based one-way nuclear strike--a mission it mercifully never performed--the diminutive plane instead established a solid reputation as a capable conventional attack aircraft during the Vietnam conflict. The jet went on to serve as one of the U.S. Navy's Blue Angels flight demonstration squadron's aircraft and is still in service today, in various capacities, nearly six decades later.
On this episode, retired U.S. Rear Admiral Steven Briggs joins us to discuss the venerable Skyhawk, also known as the "Scooter" or "Heinemann's Hot Rod" after the plane's legendary developer. The Admiral answers our usual 'aircraft series' questions leveraging his extensive experience in the jet, which includes 229 combat missions.
Episode artwork by Janek Krause. Bumper music by Jaime Lopez / announcements by Clint Bell. This episode was produced by our friends at The MuscleCar Place Podcast Network.

[@maggiebruder2103]

My father was the the CO of the silver foxes in 1967 when he lost his life moving a jet out of the way on the deck of the Coral Sea. The aircraft was blown over the side of the deck by accident. My family has never gotten over the loss. I sit here with tears running down my cheeks writing this. Anyone here know him? would love to hear about it. I have so few memories of him. His name is Bill Searfus. He flew the A-4 Skyhawk for many missions in Vietnam.

[@scotthoeft7274]

GOD BLESS YOU MAGGIE!!

[@maggiebruder2103]

@@scotthoeft7274 Thank you Scott.

[@scotthoeft7274]

@@maggiebruder2103 YOUR WELCOME

[@nastya-4driver981]

3068 hrs in A-4 C, E, F, M Neve4r cruised (Marine / Vietnam Grunt), a nice trip down memory lane...Thanks, ADM!

[@skyhawk61]

VMA-214 Det N, CVS-12(wooden deck). A4B with centerline 150gal tank, sidewinders and 20mm in the “fighter” configuration. Catapults were a real kick in the butt with the H8 cat. Great interview, Admiral. One of the better narrations of, and for, the Skyhawks. A4B/C/E, TA4F. One really great aircraft to fly!! BTW, sounds like the same path I took in my final phases of flight training as a MarCad. TF-9J was my 1st jet thence the F-11 and onto to the A4 with VMA-214 in Kaneohe. Exactly as you described for 1st A4 flight. Book test then cockpit checkout. Then into my flight gear, strapped in and flew it as a nugget. Never forgot my initial times flying to complete my syllabus training. Thank you for your telling it straight about the Skyhawk. It was the best bargain, pound for pound, of any attack aircraft.

[@buckstrucks4476]

Any stories on you CVS-12 tour? Assuming this was on the 63-64 westpac?

[@bobharrison7693]

He was an attack pilot. They make history, fighter pilots make movies.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

So they say.

[@3drocket]

Thanks for this. I grew up in New Zealand during the 70s and 80s and I have many fond memories of the A-4.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome, Matthew!

[@andyrichi]

Nothing beats a kiwi A4 with Kahu upgrade at low level! Loved the sight and sound of them flying into Whenuapai or Ohakea during the 70's and 80's as a kid as well. I guess that's why I became a pilot . Thanks for the memories

[@gmarshall1026]

Australian ex navy skyhawk

[@acouch213]

Being a kid from the 80's, to me A-4 is all about dogfighting, thanks to Top Gun. It's so good to hear about the actual mission of the A-4. Thanks for the great interviews Jello!

[@corykylen5763]

i guess Im asking the wrong place but does anyone know a way to get back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot the account password. I would love any tricks you can offer me.

[@zaynyousef7859]

@Cory Kylen Instablaster :)

[@corykylen5763]

@Zayn Yousef i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and I'm in the hacking process atm. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later with my results.

[@corykylen5763]

@Zayn Yousef it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy! Thanks so much, you really help me out!

[@zaynyousef7859]

@Cory Kylen Happy to help xD

[@stefanocacchioli2016]

The most underrated aircraft ever👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌🛩🛩🛩🛩🛩✈️✈️🛩🛩🛩🛩

[@antr7493]

"The Rescue 1988". The kids of a Navy Seal team, rescue their dads from a North Korean prison. America, Hell Yeah. They steal this old Bristol 170 freighter and make their way back to South Korea. Their communications system is down. Two Skyhawks get behind them and are asking them to identify themselves or they will be shot down. One of the kids pops out of the top hatch and flashes the pilots a Bruce Springsteen T-shirt. It was a very 80s movie. It was awesome.

[@donalddempsey1072]

As a former AO and Aircrew, love hearing pilots talk ordnance and knowing the rewards of deckhand hardwork. Another great interview.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks, Donald!

[@leonlobos9718]

Thank you. Honored to hear you and the Admiral. Great interview.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks, Leon.

[@omally]

Love Steve and yet another "holy smokes! the stuff that happened in 'nam!" crazy. Thanks Jellz!

[@jpm74]

A-4 is low-key one of the best and most beautiful fighter jets of all time. So graceful in the Blue Angels.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Agreed!

[@mikesanservino8306]

The last a/c that I flew in the Navy was the TA-4J…also by far the most fun. I LOVE that bird, you literally wore it and it became an extension of your body.

[@bobfallis]

Brings back fond memories. Was the first aircraft I worked on in '85 as a young 6012.

[@donno1970]

Another great episode with one of my favorite aircraft

[@BlueAngelPhantoms]

Huge fan of your podcast. Mr. Briggs was an outstanding guest!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thank you!

[@paralleler]

I've enjoyed all the podcasts but LOVED! LOVED! LOVED! this one! Just listen to the glisten in his eyes as he' talking. p.s., I download the audios and listen to them while I'm driving. GREAT JOB! THANK YOU!

[@nackdibby7960]

My new all time favorite podcast! This was great fun and I love that Scooter! First Blue Angel show I ever went to see and there they were! The perfect Diamond! I will be cycling back through shows you have already done and look forward to the next! P.S. What kind of weirdo would give this a thumbs down? Very sad people out there I guess!

[@Fast85FoxGT]

You should get this guy back on and have him talk about the planes he flew and how he compares them to eachother. He probably has an insane amount of stories.

[@RCAvhstape]

My dad served aboard USS Shangri-La CVA-38 in the mid 60s as an aviation bosun's mate. It was also an Essex class carrier like Oriskany and carried the same types of aircraft. My dad loved the Skyhawks, and he hated how the avionics hump ruined the smooth lines of the later models. His cruise book had a sequence of photos shot during an accident in the Med where an A-4 had a brake failure while taxiing and was about to go over the side. You can see the crew chief with his hand on the wingtip, pushing as hard as he could to help turn the plane away from the edge, and finally, on signal from the pilot running away and cover his head with his hands as the ejection seat fired and the poor plane tumbled overboard. The pilot landed in the water and was picked up immediately by the SARS bird.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Helium Road great story!

[@TheMongoose004]

Served as an A-4 Plane Captain while stationed at Cherry Point 66-68. Great walk down memory lane.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Awesome!

[@vtwinbuilder3129]

Ha! Jell-O you are the man! I don’t know if you saw it or not but I literally just posted a comment on another interview of yours asking for an A-4 pilot a couple days ago....now here it is! Can not wait to listen! Thanks again!!!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

We aim to please!

[@isseikobayashi3426]

Another excellent episode! A bit sad that the A-4's buddy tanker role wasn't at least mentioned since it sort of pioneered that alongside the Skywarrior

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Ah, touche.

[@MaggotSr.]

I love this show , I only wish he would interview a pilot of the later A4 with the hump. I'm 45 yrs and when I was a kid that was the coolest plane to me

[@slow9573]

No return delivery? Damn. Thank you for your service.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Dialectic guess that’s where “service before self” takes takes on a whole new meaning!

[@danwatkins9386]

Another guy to bring back on. Thanks Jello! Got my shoulder back finally. Going to contact you about the hat.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Okay, Dan!

[@dennispetretti3384]

Vincent thank you for such an incredible interview with Admiral Steve Briggs. In such a format ,I would have not thought it possible to give the A-4 the credit it deserves. Steve did. He was well prepared, humble and funny. Of course you both complemented each other so well which is why your podcast are so enjoyable and successful. I made the following cruise in 68’ after his and knew Al Crebo and TR. Al was also an LSO and great guy. Check out his battle-damaged bird. I was amazed that Admiral Steve was able to highlight the many attributes of this simple but exceptionally capable aircraft. My last choice out of Beeville, (love the F-8) but got to love it. Probably your best guest. I really laughed on his discussion of the bullpup shoots over of Indian Territory. It was so weird in this shallow dive trying to guide it to the target with a joy stick while flying and being shot at. His dump episode. The only reason he didn’t dump down to “0” was because you could only dump the wing fuel in the A-4. There was around 1,200 internal behind the cockpit. Had a runaway dump, (rag in fuel tank kept the dump vale open) but had enough to get aboard wing the wing was empty. Its ironic the three of us served in the same squadron. What I enjoyed most was listening to two navy fighter/attack pilots from different universes hanger flying. SIOP, you missed it Jell-O. The end of the world thing!!!! There was a run in target right out of Fallon. B-20? About a 5 mile run line we used to practice, do the over the shoulder, do a half cuban eight, and go as fast as possible to avoid the nuke blast. LOL

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

I don't mind missing that! Thanks, Denny. 😎

[@tabascoindy5005]

Most fun podcast ever. Great wealth of knowledge from vietnam combat missions to flying with folding wings. Mighty Mouse is still my one of faverite cartoons show ever. Thx. Question, with all kind of most advanced hardware and superiority, vietnam the very last of most challenge theatre ever?

[@christiancormier7847]

Jeez I could listen to Admiral Briggs all day. Something about those salty guys, they know how to tell a story. Thanks Jell-O and Admiral Briggs!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Sure thing, Christian. Concur!

[@dennispetretti3384]

Agree. His take and perspective on other subjects regarding Naval Air would be most welcomed. Most folks on subjects like giving you the technical stock answers and background anyone can obtain on the internet.So boring to listen to. What Steve did was give his recollections of his basic operational experiences not as an Admiral, but when he was JO flying the A-4 and not overly dramatic or soupy about it. Its what he volunteered for, the navy called the insurance policy due and off to war he went. No bitching. You can tell, he took his flying seriously but not himself and willing to just tell the good, bad and ugly with a wonderful sense of humor. He was enjoyable and refreshing to listen to. One of those great Fighter Pilot Podcast I did not want to end. Best of all, he had the humility to say...I was alight attack pilot and we were basically expendable.

[@bret9741]

I didn’t know much about the A-4 except my elementary class had pictures of various early military aircraft on the walls. One was one of or the test A-4 pre production. I always though that aircraft is perfect for a kid my size. Later in college too gun and blue angels at air shows made me believe it was a small fighter… something akin to an early F-16. It was small, you literally wore the aircraft.

[@Idahoguy10157]

In 1971 as a Boy Scout I knew a navy LCDR who flew A-4’s. He loved flying the A4! A Vietnam combat pilot.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Easy to love flying the Scooter!

[@jasonsong86]

Rest in peace, Admiral.

[@wrongmower]

Thanks for posting, VT-21 NAS Kingsville 82-85 TA4J

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

👍

[@grizzworld]

This is really great !

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks!

[@scarcatch]

Cant wait to listen! I am surprised that it gets featured so long down the road with the fame in mind.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Figured finding the right guest was worth the wait.

[@scarcatch]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Was worth it, great episode

[@samivwow]

that Hornet RWR sound at the end tho, got my attention real quick :D

[@TaffenFelspar]

Great Chat! Thanks all...

[@D0cJekyll]

Gotta do the OV-10 Bronco!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Just have to find a suitable guest.

[@D0cJekyll]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Let me do some running g around and try to find a good one. I'll email you with what I find.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@D0cJekyll Perfect.

[@antr7493]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Garry Goff was a OV-10 Bronco pilot. I heard him on another podcast. Really interesting.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@antr7493 👍

[@dougstitt1652]

4 years late but great interview !

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@dougstitt1652 thanks! Sadly, my guest on this episode has since passed away

[@dougstitt1652]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Very sry to hear that he had a great sense of humor.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@dougstitt1652 indeed.

[@jacksonschadt7573]

My Dad flew the TA-4J back when he was in advanced jet training. Said it felt like driving a sports car.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

💪

[@Bobcatflyfish]

Since 2020 marks the 75th anniversary of the end of WW2, are you planning on doing episodes on WW2 fighters such as the P-51 Mustang or the F6F Hellcat? Love the channel, keep up the amazing content

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Always on the lookout for compelling interviews but no special plans for the 75th.

[@fgeorge7434]

@The Fighter Pilot Podcast , the rudder is not used in A-4 Skyhawk for maneuver to cancel advese yaw?

[@chrisdilley266]

Great podcast

[@am17frans]

After hering this, and the earlier episodes about FAC, I would really like to hear an episode about CAS in a high-threat enviorment. It would be very interesting to learn about what effect such an enviroment have on what can and can not be done.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Okay, will consider adding something along those lines...

[@andyrichi]

The mainstay of the kiwi air force for many years flying from Ohakea in New Zealand. Thanks for the memories . Are there any F-105 Thud pilots you may be able to interview in the future. Superb podcast Jello. Thank you.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Yes, we hope to eventually give the 'Century Series' fighters their due.

[@kiwidiesel5071]

Yes was a sad day when Aunty Helen disbanded the strike wing especially considering we had just had our A4 fleet upgraded to "K" series with the Latest at the time radar and weapons systems. They were also only a few components removed from being nuclear capable at anytime we may have desired.

[@TheAschwittek]

"Good morning gentlemen its 110 degrees"

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

🤩

[@daffidavit]

"Don't look at the Shrike when you shoot it." Flight of the Intruder, with Danny Glover.

[@fortheloveofsauce5612]

I grew up want to fly this pony. Ended up with F15 avionics. Never having sat in the seat, beyond my shortcomings, loved the chat

[@terryboyer1342]

I remember my 4th grade teachers son coming in to talk to us wearing Navy Whites. He flew A-4s and had just gotten back from Vietnam. He spoke a lot about dodging Sams and how dangerous they were. I didn't know what a Sam was and remember asking him what they were. I don't remember what carrier he flew from.

[@mobiuszero1018]

A-4 skyhawk...the little plane that could and one of the most memorable for me,due to both top gun and the fact that the late senator John McCain flew one and sadly got shot down in one. Which reminds me...I wonder if Adm. Briggs knew Senator McCain?

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Didn't think to ask him.

[@davistalhone9482]

As did Bob Lutz.

[@PrimarchX]

Yeehaw! Jester's dead! :) Were there any A-4s still in the vicinity when you were in Top Gun, Jello?

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Flight school, yes. TOPGUN? No. Before my time.

[@dmutant2635]

There are some private contractors flying A-4's as adversaries against US air assets. Recent viewings of Google Earth, using 2018 imagery, shows some A-4's on the ramp at Nellis.

[@hockey3761]

I had no interest to listen to this episode as i don't care for the a-4 but I thought I'd give it a shot. Glad I did, the admiral was very great guest in the show!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Well thank you but first things first: you don't care for the A-4??!! 😯

[@hockey3761]

@@FighterPilotPodcast I "had" no interest ;)

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@hockey3761 I'm still heart broken.

[@skateforevermarcus]

Nice

[@davekisor1486]

The Douglas F-4D Skyray was the only other carrier aircraft without folding wings.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Didn’t know!

[@wiesenbefeuchter]

Which US models were "Bullpup" and "Walleye" able ?

[@danialshazly7547]

Malaysia bought 88 and revive only 40 in service but it was unfortunate the Royal Malaysian Air Force only used less than 7 years!

[@ThePrybra07]

In the caption art what is on the belly station?

[@andrewdillard192]

Can you do an episode on EA-18s?

[@Doc_Roe]

What is that turbine intake looking thing attached to the centerline of the A-4 in the picture.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Dunno. It was on the jet in the photo our artist selected for this episode. Probably should have had him photoshop it off since I don't know.

[@Doc_Roe]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Heck noo I'm glad you guys left it, there's nothing wrong with not knowing! Plus now It gives me something to look into haha! I appreciate your response And I have been loving the content! Thank you so much for all these awesome stories.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@Doc_Roe You're welcome. If you find out, let us all know!

[@Doc_Roe]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Will do!

[@Baco1170]

Argentinians are flying the last Scooter the "Fighthing Hawk" it has an APG 66 AR a modified F-16 radar, and a more powerfull engine... the A-4 AR. a nifty little plane very capable.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks for the info!

[@lefty59th18]

Hit the like button at 0:01

[@falcon642]

Anyone else think that the USAF could use the A-4 today? The whole idea behind the Air Force light attack program is you don't need a F-15 to drop bombs on the Taliban or ISIS, so get something that has a cheap cost per flight hour, hence the USAF is looking at the Super Tucano. A-4 cost $3,000 per flight hour to operate. A-10 - $6,000. F-16 - $8200, F-18F - $10,000. The A-4 would be a lot cheaper to operate than current planes and would be a lot more capable than the Super Tucano the USAF is currently looking at. A few squadrons of A-4s could sure take a lot of pressure and wear and tear off of our bigger planes, and be cheaper to operate to boot. Hopefully the Air Force is smart and quickly adapts the new T-X trainer to a light attack role to do a lot of the attack jobs the A-4 used to do.

[@dennispetretti3384]

They have the A-10 probably the best attack aircraft in the world. Which they don't want. Would rather have expensive planes then low cost effective planes for a mission.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

There’s the new “light attack” program competition under way now between two turboprop aircraft. Not an A-4, but the idea is the same: more cost effective use of aircraft. See this link for more: www.defensenews.com/air/2019/10/25/air-force-officially-buying-light-attack-planes/

[@greatzoglo]

The Italians operate a neat little plane similar in many ways to the A-4. The AMX, they are very happy with it and I believe they had deployed them to afghanistan. Would be great to have an Italian pilot speak about the AMX on this amazing podcast!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@greatzoglo Know any?

[@greatzoglo]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Wish I knew, but you managed to get an Indian Mig-29 pilot.Love your podcast, always listen to it.

[@arielmanuelalvarez3471]

Great Podcast!!! Argentine Air Force still have MD A-4M flying modified as AR Fighting Hawks. Those aircrafts have APG-66 radars and improved avionics. We also had operated A-4B and Cs from 1966 to 95, and the Argentine Navy had MD A-4Q (modified Bs) flying from our ARA 25 de Mayo aircraft carrier. Both B/C and Q were very effective during the conflict in Malvinas back in 1982. Bs sunk HMS Antelope frigate and HMS Coventry destroyer, plus the RFA Sir Galahad troops transport. Plus the Navy Qs had sunk the HMS Ardent frigate. All were done using dumb bombs!!!!

[@plantfeeder6677]

August in Lemoore. Know all about that.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Brutal.

[@davekisor1486]

I was an AE with VA-127 and 164. The fog season was just as brutal. You either burned or froze.

[@Pitchlock8251]

What's on the centerline station in the screenshot?

[@Davros-vi4qg]

Pitch Lock suspect its the photo recce pod the Admiral mentioned using in the POL raid.

[@SkyhawkSteve]

another fine podcast! However, as a former A-4/TA-4 Skyhawk avionics guy, I may be a bit biased. ;-) If you want to see pics of Skyhawks that returned with big holes in the wing, I've got a scan of a Douglas promotional book for the Skyhawk II that shows this: live.staticflickr.com/3374/3510846555_8d5fc1247d_h_d.jpg A photo of the Skyhawk with massive damage and just the nose gear down: live.staticflickr.com/3311/3511658228_fa41370d20_h_d.jpg

[@quizels0695]

do the F-5 Tiger

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Already did 👍

[@DjAkho]

grandpa joking around 19:30 that he has the ability to troll and he's informing internet about this new found power. What a backwards lad haha.

[@domoetker3967]

Blablabla, he loves to talk. You can walk away and come back an hour later, and he is still talking