Let's talk about Skyrim's paid Creations

[@xaviormcginnis5634]

One thing you didn't mention is the free cathedral mods got taken down from xbox creations and are now being re-uploaded as paid creations. Which is a shame.

[@sw-gs]

That how it works. Creators can join program, then they are on trial period when their mods are uploaded for free. After certain period stated in contract depending on how well mod has been downloaded by players, creator can to try applying to Bethesda for changing monetization on their mod.

[@0periodproductions]

My understanding was that the paid Cathedral / Jacopo Creations are brand new models and textures. But yeah, really not a fan of the free versions being taken down on console in place of this

[@5226-p1e]

@@0periodproductions part of me thinks that some mods sold as creations were in the form of a protest against Bethesda's creation store, ya know the ones that wouldn't provide much content and expect high payment for the content, if you look at that from the perspective of the modders in question, many of them were against the whole creations thing because bethesda didn't really make this system easy to work with or fully think it through and they also didn't like the idea of making mods payed. but some ppl did take it seriously, such as kingath and everyone who works for him, he knew he needed to make a product that ppl would feel comfortable paying for because it was packed full of content, and that's the standard that ppl expect from payed mods. bethesda just assumes that any modder will enjoy this system, but there are many flaws within the system, the platform needs some kind of ranking system and filter of which modders are allowed to even make creations, meaning they have to earn that privilege, but bethesda want's no part in managing that kind of thing so instead we have modders making content that sucks and demand high pay for pretty much nothing, they probably hope bethesda will see this issue and then make some adjustments to how the system works, but no, bethesda are lazy and just expect it to work without any of their input or improvement's to that system. the funny thing about this is even though there are restrictions within the system, bethesda doesn't check or do much of any kind of management of the creations, meaning anyone could just drop whatever mod they wish and because bethesda is lazy, the uploader could get away with it because of Bethesda's hands off approach to this system they built doesn't seem to check anything, hell there are modders who make fun of this system in a mod i found on the nexus, i think it's that project valkery mod where they make a clear example of what Bethesda's creations store is all about and why it doesn't make sense, i wish i could show you the clip, it's actually quite funny but it points out all of the flaws in this system that still have not been addressed since they first tried this stupid system. i personally have even come up with ways this system could be improved on, but my words fall on deaf ears when it comes to bethesda, so it's wasted and i stopped trying to fix that system as i have no control over it and i don't have the ear of bethesda either.

[@peacefusion]

it was the modders choice. which is their right, but still a way to burn bridges with your fans. I would have kept both versions up, but maybe who knows, maybe they got fed up with the other side that felt entitled to their free work? which does happen in free mods. who knows, they could have removed it due to protest or just wanting to remake it. its speculation.

[@theamazingbatboy]

Purchasing better textures and models in a single-player game you've already paid for is a massive waste of money. What are those models going to look like in 5 years? 10? The only content worth paying for is creative adventure and exploration based experiences-new lands/world-spaces & custom dungeon crawls-or big gameplay overhauls like Bard's College Expansion. If the 'Creation' doesn't offer a new experience or role-play/escapism opportunity then for the love of dog don't buy it.

[@snarkywriter1317]

The thing I dislike the most about the Cathedral paid mod is that DrJacopo is still using the "Cathedral" name, when "Cathedral" mods were tagged as such because they were *meant* to be community assets and *not* monetized, as per Wrye's original "Cathedral" modding philosophy.

[@sasspiria1872]

It's super shady.

[@a1racer441]

yeah i had always thought cathedral was open source stuff and not paywalled so seeing that kind of took me back.

[@sasspiria1872]

@@a1racer441 I would not be surprised if this burned bridges with the other cathedral modders.

[@a1racer441]

@ for sure i have done a couple nexus patch mods for Skyrim I've always left all my stuff open source as long as people don't use it to make money. all because i liked how cathedral did stuff.

[@RamonXick]

yea, I was about to check this as I'm pretty sure Cathedral tagline was some sort of open source but for mods ages ago

[@RHaenJarr]

I miss the pre-corporate internet so much

[@JRexRegis]

Same. Back when people made things because they had passion, not because they "need" to hustle even their hobbies.

[@cr8595]

Blame capitalism.

[@loop4569]

@@cr8595 in b4 someone strawmans socialism

[@pinkleWeenkies]

same . everyday

[@redshift912]

@@JRexRegisaka , you just want people to make you free shit

[@jesusarmandocontrerasalvar9272]

is funny how paid mods are usually what we would consider lower end mods on the nexus, while the huge ones that are literally bigger than vanilla DLC are still free

[@midnightcoffee6463]

For real xD Literally anything Vicn puts out, for one example, is a thousand times better

[@viciousyeen6644]

As they should! Its insane to pay for mods that bland

[@Jamseth_Ingramious]

I think motivation is a big factor here. Adding material incentive cuts down on the inherent passion and can alter developer behaviors to attempt to maximize profits, in addition to inviting people who are only looking to make a quick buck.

[@jesusarmandocontrerasalvar9272]

@@Jamseth_Ingramious thats true, Xing Made really good mods previously, he had patrón only mods and addons, personally i was okay with that, but then, he enteres this Bethesda creation club and charged 7 bucks for a underwhelming animation for the razón dagger while his previois free work was way superior (dual casting note Magic), is sad and amazing what greed can do

[@Doctor_Grubious]

Then don’t buy it 💀

[@BKPrice]

"I understand that not everyone in the program is a professional modeler." Which is why they shouldn't be charging money for it.

[@inkchariot6147]

There's micro transactions in fucking Skyrim, Elder Scrolls 6 is screwed.

[@BumbleDoom]

Elder scrolls literally invented micro transactions.

[@65firered]

We've come full circle.

[@Sporkonafork1]

Well you can thank Oblivion for basically green lighting micro transactions in gaming in general lol

[@TheVampireFishQueen]

This has been on skyrim for a while best thing to do is boycott Creations.

[@Gutvald]

They will probably spent 33% of their worktime searching for a way to include moneytisation in this solo game.

[@enragedbard]

Also, the 'Cathedral' concept meant shared mod resources for all. That's why that word comes up so much in modding. Having us pay for any of it is far beyond egregious, since the idea was balking at keeping resources to yourself in making mods. And this is a step beyond that.

[@65firered]

Bethesda not only invented microtransactions but innovated them to including mods as well. Never underestimate the power of corporate greed.

[@Cybernaut76]

Bethesda does not deserve us anymore. Fitgirl does! Seek her up but watch out for fake sites!

[@Sporkonafork1]

Bethesda is not the same studio that created Morrowind. I don’t give a shit about Bethesda anymore. Truly. I only care about the Elder Scrolls, but Bethesda (as they are today) has showed that they do NOT deserve to hold onto this IP.

[@laerllik]

It doesn't just work anymore

[@midnightcoffee6463]

For real, fans like us are the only thing keeping the Elder Scrolls alive. It feels like Bethesda is trying to run it into the ground with Blades, Castles, and this Creations stuff

[@BrandonDenny-we1rw]

Wish i could care but its clear they care more about making us waste our time and play longer than actually provide value to the time spent

[@JRexRegis]

Luckily, Morrowind has a thriving modding community. Look into Project Tamriel Rebuilt, which is an ancient modding project expanding Tes3's worldspace, following the vision, worldbuilding quality, design principles and passion of the original game. To date, the project has created about 2/3rds of the Morrowind Mainland, and two other, smaller teams are working on Cyrodiil and Skyrim (in the third era, discarding lore established in ESO, Oblivion and TESV). Skyrim has a small segment of the Reach, while Cyrodiil just got an update adding the city of anvil and the surrounding areas. They're incredible mods, arguably of higher quality than the original Vvardenfell, because the modders at this point have more experience and know-how about the tools and game than the original developers ever did Also keep an eye on Skywind and Skyblivion, which are fan-made remakes of Morrowind and Oblivion in the skyrim engine and upgraded with the new technology added by it - Skywind for example will add scenes and npc-npc banter, which was not possible in the TES3 engine. I suspect that these projects will only continue to grow unless Bethesda reverses course and returns to their roots. But after the Starfield disaster, I seriously doubt that.

[@mortemtyrannus8813]

@@JRexRegis Adding to the Project Tamriel/Tamriel Rebuilt, they've finally announced a start on two other projects in their collection, focusing on High Rock and Hammerfell. Still early days, so we don't have a playable version of Project Hammerfell or High Rock: 3E427 yet, but still, four provinces plus mainland Morrowind, compared to Skyrim's current state.

[@DiscordOfSound]

Yep, you have a much better view into the paid creations side of modding, and sounds like you're seeing the major problems a lot of us modders have brought up. There's already a problem with Patreon allowing mods being locked behind a paywall, allowing bad faith mod authors, like Kirax, that are simply porting outfits from other games that they don't have permission to do. Basically stealing assets and charging up to $30 a month for VVIP rank. This really shouldn't be allowed and should be discouraged but... people will shill out. Anyway, keep up the good work and thank you for making these reviews.

[@chaserseven2886]

That sounds like patreon has a problem

[@retrollamas]

The sames happening with the sims community like people don't mind creators making a profit from their mods or cc as long as its released within a certain time ( EA stated this ) because it got to a point EA had to put a statement out because of the amount of people perma-paywalling cc and mods. Still happens with certain creators. Not to mention a chunk of those said creators were putting code into their items to track who shared their early access stuff and were doxxing their info. it's like I myself have converted items from life is strange games and captain spirit but I'm not charging people because its not mine to make money from.

[@5226-p1e]

it's either bad faith modders or it's a form of protest to devalue the bethesda creations store. bethesda never seems to check their creations store, so why follow the rules when they blatantly ignore their own system?

[@5226-p1e]

@@retrollamas glad i don't use patreon, damn they actually give away their users real life info to the person receiving the money? that is unacceptable, i'm glad i never used that site, i would rather use GiveSendBro, they never keep track of who payed who, everything is done anonymously.

[@a1racer441]

The stuff kinggath released is what I would consider top tier and worth the couple buck. That’s the kind of thing creations should focus on and not allow stuff like 5 dollar sword animations and location overhauls that break other things. Bethesda needs to reign in the bs remove bad actors and tighten what can be considered paid creations.

[@Rising_Cyberpsychosis]

Kinggath’s content feels like BGS hired a third party studio like Virtuous to make a DLC for them, even one of his creations brought back some Skyrim VA’s. His content is the only stuff in creations that is worth any money.

[@a1racer441]

@@Rising_Cyberpsychosis the one that was released by the dude who works with the skyblivion team looks not bad as well the with one i think it was. but yeah kinggath brough back og Skyrim voice actors paid them and brough an AAA style dlc for like 10 bucks and 7 bucks that I've got some entertainment out of.

[@Nilanius]

To date, I have not bought a single skyrim creation, and I never will. I will only get mods from nexus or lovers lab. If it aint on either of those 2 sites, then I'm not interested.

[@5226-p1e]

what about mods that are censored off of the nexus? i mean there are other sites that host mods, DLCFUN Basedmods, ModDB and many more to list.

[@Sporkonafork1]

Well said, I’m of the same stance.

[@cr8595]

Just loverslab for me.

[@Cybernaut76]

Also try basedmods. You can find stuff from there that Nexusmods does not want or wants censored.

[@UnknownMoses]

100%

[@James--Parker]

One issue I don't see talked about much with paid creations is compatibility. When everything is free. It's easy for mod authors to check if their mod is compatible with another. Usually all it takes is booting up both mods in sse edit. (Though certain types of conflicts are missed by sse edit. But that's a different topic.) But someone asked me if one of my mods was compatible with "Bards College expansion" and I had no way of checking. As I'd have to buy the creation to check. Having a bunch of mods be paid makes it much harder to get mods to play nice with eachother. As I'd have to buy the creation to make a patch. And so much of modding these days is patching.

[@succfuse3061]

Does nobody remember the paid mods thing from 2012? Where the Steam Workshop was doing paid mods solely for Skyrim, I remember the backlash was so bad they rolled back super fast.

[@lunasakara7306]

It was 2015, and yes. Bethesda reached out to Valve to lay the foundation of "paid mods" and Valve were willing to try it. I don't think the backlash was the reason Valve backed out, I think it was the potentially limitless ways it could be abused, cheated, and Valve could and would be held legally liable for all of it.

[@chrismiller5940]

As I remember of the dozen or so initial mods half were stolen from other people and most of the other half required other mods (script extender and FNIS mainly) where they had no permission to use them in paid mods. All in all about 2 mods were left and they were horribly overpriced.

[@spongSyt]

I think Creations should be pretty much user-generated DLC for the game, where Bethesda has to manually approve each one and the mods have to be very well balanced with the game.

[@jadenthecommenter]

Agreed. Starfield is the worst offender of just pure slop on their creations.

[@chiveskirk]

My interest in Skyrim has been waning ever since this was a thing. A paid mod would have to be pretty high quality for me to pay anything, and any singular weapon or armor set is not enough content to warrant a price tag imo.

[@Cybernaut76]

Nobody is a Bethesda fan anymore. That is soooo 2011, not this day.

[@lunasakara7306]

The worst part is, I just skimmed through the CC mods, and most of them are basically "Hey, here's a shitty half-assed story that gives you THE BEST WEAPON IN THE GAME EVER!!1!" They have virtually no balancing. Ironic considering a lot of the free (superior) mods are much better balanced, or give you the ability to alter the balance it to your own wants.

[@larb6314]

There’s still tons of big free mods like the Vicn trilogy which is still being worked on. I think there will always be people making free mods.

[@MultiNacho8]

An analytical, fair and honest video about paid mods?! In MY Skyrim modding community?! No way! By law, your'e supposed to conform to the status quo set by the community. For shame!

[@0periodproductions]

Yes sir, sorry sir

[@thegattmann4687]

Sadly I don't believe Bethesda showing more of the well done Creations is a sign that they prefer them. It's just a better way to showcase the plattform to show good content. Bethesda has shown often enough that they are a company first and and creators second. So they will allow stuff that brings in money and will just be decent enough to not trigger a big shitstorm. Sadly the lesson from gaming in the last years has been that good content may still sell well, but quick cashgrabs (Mobile Gaming, Lootboxes) sell better. So I don't believe that anything good will come from the Creations Program in the long term and I myself will continue to support Nexus with my money. The really amazing projects, like Enderal could never be published in such a way anyway, since the work of so many different people is included. Its a passion project after all. I don't have anything against kinggath, trying to professionalize modding per se, but I am sad that it has to happen using a Bethesda platform, which I fear will hurt modding in the long term.

[@caiooca5793]

Why good content would stop being published? Why would it sell worse than the cashgrabs? I've heard a few people stoped using nexus completely after Creations, their reason: convenience. Nexus can be a chore if you dont pay. I believe the system needs to and will inevitably evolve, and imo it sounds better to use a platform made by the devs than a third party one like Nexus. And this comes from a long time nexus user. Imo Creations can offer what Nexus did but to another level of integration and professionality. It will depend directly from bethesda's support ofc, but they are the ones with most interest. And anyone can help make Creations a better place with free mods.

[@gremlinzd]

I had a mini-stroke when I first saw the $7 price tag for the 'Animated Weapon Series - Mehrunes Razor' creation. They have to be out of their mind. It looks good, yes, and if it was free, I may have considered that for my mod list. Imagine if they release more that are priced at $7, Dawnbreaker, Mace of Molag Bal, Ebony Blade... you're looking at $28 with the Mehrunes Razor. For Cathedral, all other issues aside, $1 for the Maple Vines, from a pricing standpoint, it might be fair. We now have two other Cathedral creations and they are priced at $2 each. Now you're whittling away my goodwill and I imagine we have 15 more or so of these left... this is probably one example that's left a bad taste in people's mouths. I get it. You want to get paid for your work... but don't treat us like we're stupid. Especially if you've made a name for yourself in the community.

[@billy65bob]

Have to remember that the 'esl' plugins are restricted to 4096 records. These numbers count up very quickly, every instance you plonk in a cell is a record, every line of dialogue is a record, every new area is a record defined by many more records. Consider Narrative Loot for example, that esp has exactly 4097 (lol) records, which should give you an idea of just how many big in scope the largest 'creation club' mods can be.

[@Waluigiisbest99]

seeing cathedral snoop to this level that he is honest to god selling a 1 dollar mod with a single asset changed is frankly disgusting and disappointing all at the same time..

[@idkbruhimhigh]

Just remember that the mod creator isn't 'Cathedral'. Cathedral is a set of ideas about creating mods and their resources, and he wasn't even the original creator of that philosophy.

[@Waluigiisbest99]

@@idkbruhimhigh your right i should have specified DrJacopo because he the more well known one and the one i associate with cathedral and his mods are both on nexus and overpriced on the creations.

[@RynMods]

It's always good to hear feedback like this from the community. While we are working on another project right now, we still have plans to do a sizable quality of life update to Coven of Crones very soon. It feels important to treat this program with respect, and care for the things we make, given what we stand to earn from it. If we stand to earn money, the consumer should receive a quality product worth that money. Thank you again, for these kinds of videos. They absolutely do not go unseen. :)

[@АлексейСвиридов-у9о]

I got your mod for free doe. No money for you scum.

[@Achiez-z]

I was around when the Skyrim paid mods controversy first happened back in early 2015. The backlash and uproar were massive. I'm starting to understand why people were so upset.

[@jackfenwick6182]

The irony of drjacobo joining the paid series is on the nexus page for cathedral mods, he has this whole paragraph about whole the ethos of "cathedral"" modding over "parlour" modding and whole mods should be open source and free and how mods shouldn't be behind a paywall 😂😂

[@saladinbob]

Given that it's modders who finished Skyrim, and are still, to this day, squashing the inordinate amount of bugs the game shipped with, it should be Bethesda paying them not us.

[@thebiglich]

The small mods are NOT 4 dollars. You CANNOT buy 400 crowns

[@Themistoklis16]

It's funny to find mods like Helgen Rebuild, Granite hill or armored horses for free.. and on the other hand they were selling a plant or a sword for 1 dollar, you are absolutely right. In general, the creation club gives you the impression that Bethesda is not involved, it looks more like a fun club, that's what they want you to believe, and I think this is happening for the reasons you mention, they are not stupid. In this way they avoid both the questions and the answers and can set up 5 dollar traps, without explanation. This is also evident from the fact that (as you also mention) they don't want likes and dislikes or comments, they just want your money, without your opinion. I repeat, they are not stupid, this is their trick, smart or not.

[@ljtibbs765]

The bars college and east empire company one look cool it’s a shame they disable achievements. One of the best things of the creation club was getting more stuff for the game and it didn’t disable achievements. I hope they change that.

[@vergyltantor3211]

It isn't like there was any shortage of mods, both good and bad before Creations. One difference now is players have to pay for them. Also the accumulated cost of mods will limit the number of creative new mod makers. This is because there is a limited amount of money people are willing to spend experimenting with new mods by unknown creators.

[@TheVampireFishQueen]

Free mods are still doing well on nexus and most do not use Creations.

[@vergyltantor3211]

@@TheVampireFishQueen I was talking in the long term. We will have to see what happens with new BGS games going forward.

[@TheVampireFishQueen]

@@vergyltantor3211 Most modders I seen are moving away from Creations.

[@Waskomsause]

@@vergyltantor3211 Nexus will likely always rule the day. Starfield has over 10k mods for free up on it, and it was the first game to star a paid modding scene from the beginning

[@larb6314]

@@vergyltantor3211I doubt it. The majority of mods rely on at least a few other mods to work. So for example I think landscape overhauls will mostly remain free because they have lots of dependencies and there’s so many of them the paid ones would have lots of competition. The real issue will probably be quest mods being paid, which would suck.

[@newbie504]

Vicn is a god of the modding community: his mods are top tier and incredibly unique and what's more, all of them are free, even after all these years. Modding is about creativity and sharing, not about making a profit. People have forgotten that.

[@pendantblade6361]

This channel is a godsend to anyone who doesnt want to deal with bethesda's greed.

[@Von_Craven]

Investing your time into the players 100% has been the way that popular creators got where they are, instead of making slop content.

[@5226-p1e]

in my opinion, slop content could also be a form of protest to force bethesda to see the error in their ways so they will actually change the system instead of doing nothing to fix or improve on it. maybe more bad mods need to come out to get them to listen and pay attention, and maybe modders should break all of Bethesda's rules to force them to listen.

[@Von_Craven]

@5226-p1e Literally would not be any form of protest, all it does is hurt the end user and not the company, being greedy for the sake of greed is exactly what the Forever Free movement of modders said would happen YEARS ago and here we are.

[@larb6314]

@@5226-p1eI wonder if that’s the case with the cathedral mods, since the term cathedral comes from some old post by a Morrowind modder describing why he thinks all mods should have open permissions.

[@betelgeuseism]

That's a good take overall. Companies will always see money first. That's true for EA, Ubisoft, CDPR and even for Larian, it could not be different for Microsoft or Bethesda. They have fat CEOs and shareholders to feed and sallaries to pay for their workers who insist on nor working for free. Paid mods are here to stay, and that's how modders can also make more money. As long as Bethesda doesn't attack Nexus and free modding, they will continue to happen together, and we'll have the option to do as we please. If Bethesda wants to keep their player base and appeal for modders who want to sell their content, quality is the key. Selling poor quality mods when there are good mods for free is business suicide.

[@kylesoules9408]

The writing was on the wall when Starfield came out. CC is pure cancer

[@TheVampireFishQueen]

And CC is failing while nexus is still on the rise.

[@XSpadesX]

I wish for console it didn’t take up space from the 5gb limit

[@MrJLikes2Play]

The biggest issue with the verified creations is a severely inconsistent quality assurance. Some of them are top tier, and some of them just are not. Suppose while I'm at it, the pricing needs to reflect what's actually being added to the game objectively rather than just paying relatively high sums for a fraction of what the base game provides

[@lilspiritwolf5283]

Loving the videos and content keep up the good work also someone has found a way to make a voiced creation for PS only by using in game dialogue

[@trainershade1937]

When Bethesda first revealed the creation club, I was highly against it, but I also thought that it could potentially lead to more DLC-sized mods, so I wasn't 100% against it (I was ~70% against it at the time) [Edit: As there are a lot of massive mods that I wouldn't be opposed to purchasing; Enderal, Fallout: London, and the various ongoing remake projects being primary examples]. Then over the course of several years, we never actually got big mods, and the Creation Club mostly seemed to be a constant update annoyance. So I stopped updating my games, my opinion of creation club diminished greatly, and I mostly forgot about it for a few years. Then we got the Anniversary update, which I was once again on and off about. I thought the free content was cool, albeit somewhat barebones. I wasn't too bothered by AE, as I already made sure my game wouldn't update at the time, but I did decide to eventually move to the AE version once mods updated to it, and I was surprised that no further updates really released. Then the 1.6.1130 update released, and frankly speaking, I actually really liked this update (I still waited for mods to catch up before installing it though). I know a lot of people were upset about it, because they universally hate the mere concept of an update and are still stuck on 1.5.97, but I think the improvements they made for ESL plugins were a really welcome addition. Additionally, with the release, we actually saw a noticeable increase in the quality of creations. So my opinion of it was improving, and when I eventually saw Gopher release a video showcasing the Bard College Expansion creation, along with Skyrim itself not being updated for it. I realized that we finally got what I was originally hoping for, and we got it without the update annoyance (I'm actually still considering getting the creation). So my opinion of the Creation Club was back to where it started, if not a little better. Though I also still didn't give it much attention, and this video has reminded me of the main reasons I was against the system. I REFUSE to pay for mods that add next to nothing, let alone the prices they are actually selling them for. I also feel like mentioning Fallout 4's "next gen" "update", for how much it pissed me off. It's the polar opposite of Skyrim's AE update to me, and it has soured my opinion of Bethesda and the concept of the Creation Club immensely (it and Starfield made me lose a lot of hype for TES6). And most of this is solely due to the fact that the problems introduced by the "next gen" "update" have yet to be fixed.

[@RubenLodewijkMusic]

Coven of Crones is worth the money. I really liked the admosphere there. But the Hags did not really feel as a huge threat. Bards college is okay storywise, is is nice to finally be able to play an instrument, and boosting the shouts is a welcome edition. I hope for more detailed storylines in the future.

[@thevreelander]

I think you pretty much nailed it except the free part. I buy the good creations. Bard’s college, Tale of Blood and Snow, and Coven of Crows. Most creations are fluff and money grabs. The reason Skyrim may not be impacted by the free mod part is because it’s a 10+ year game. I think a game like Starfall, we’ll see the impact paid creations has on the free modding scene.

[@macronomicus]

Perhaps, but as it stands, 98% of mods in Starfiels Creations are free, & Nexus had a wild first year for Starfield mods too at 10,000 free mods. I think there's room for both, Creations is more a thing for console players who struggle to mod, plus adding a way that creators can sell mods who want to, prior it wasnt allowed per Bethesda's rules, now it is, those who want to will engage it, the rest wont, its not a problem IMO, but it needs ratings & reviews features.

[@Vizorgz]

Those are the creations that Bethesda should be encouraging so we see more of them. They're the creations I am happy to support because of the significant effort and nontrivial costs associated with making them (hiring VA's etc).

[@Ohmagawdjr]

I think the worst one is whoever is charging $2 for a single plant texture. Yes, DrJacopo they just released two new plants for $2 each.

[@Snappybiscuits]

I remember in 2015, a mod creator was defending paid mods as well as his own. He made a 4k armor mod. It was that bone armor you always saw on the front page at the time. He was getting angry at people asking him if he could make a lower resolution version like 1k or below. They even said they wouldn't mind paying a dollar, but the guy said it wouldn't be worth his time and just get the 4k one already. The entitlement coming from that guy was something else.

[@IamPlantor]

The Hightale team is absolutely amazing, Heavy burns puts out some great content and their work on skyblivion is beyond beautiful.

[@TheBlubba13]

Above anything, Bethesda needs to sort out the atrocious UI they have for creations. As well as adding features for visible feedback, reviews etc

[@DaninoMarochi]

Thanks for pointing to me, which creators to support❤, and who to ignore!

[@lmaoidkname]

With the way verified creation works now its just slowly killing free mod community like it or not, more and more veteran modder slowly move to VC. Only DLC sized mods should be allowed to be on verified creation.

[@zhongjie]

How is this any different than people paywalling their mods on patreon etc? It's always been happening and it won't kill the game. Waning interest in Skyrim as it hits a plateau of the engine limitations is what's slowly killing Skyrim the golden age is over from 2020-2022 and people just don't care anymore.

[@cr8595]

The thing that actually kill the free mod community is the people b*tching about paid creations instead of joining the free community MAKING mods. It's a community bro. Tf you mean by killing? Just join and start sharing mods! that's all...that's how a community never dies...join and share bro, it's free!

[@lmaoidkname]

@@cr8595 i DID! iam fucking mod author, and i share my work for free. i know stuff that u did not see behind the scene thats why i am vocal. what did u do? buy paywalled mod?

[@TheVampireFishQueen]

Most veteran modder are not slowly moving to VC? Most modders are not going to Creations.

[@lmaoidkname]

@@TheVampireFishQueen u guys can say whatever u think is right, i honestly dont care.

[@RedlinePush]

Holy crap. I have like 30 cathedral mods for plant replacement in my load order. at 1 dollar each, there is no way.

[@phantomgamez117]

Great Video!

[@alexbara100]

I just wish bards college wasn't so big a file size. Almost impossible to download it on xbox without sacrificing a lot

[@uchihaitachi181]

Facts, imagine my surprise when I had to literally empty my mod list and plug that in first and then have to pick and choose what goes back in.

[@alexbara100]

@uchihaitachi181 a difficult choice

[@macronomicus]

My last Skyrim build was over 400gb lol....

[@alexbara100]

@macronomicus unfortunately that's not even possible on console and if it was I don't think it'd be stable on the xbox

[@CommunistHydra]

​@@alexbara100 thats not something the mod author can control.

[@Flamesonwater1]

Should also be noted, the arquebus mod is pretty severely broken as soon as you get the letters to give em over to the civil war sides. The "heres the schematic" lines appear FOR EVERY CHARACTER.

[@veecru]

How much would Skyrim have costed if they charged 4-6 USD per quest?

[@guardianson4947]

Or 4-6 FOR EVERY ARMOR SET and EVERY WEAPON SET. You'd be looking at an over thousand dollar game! No honor in the CC system whats so ever. Doesnt have to be this way either. But greed seems to be the name of the game now more than ever.

[@zombiegamer234]

Its better to directly support your favourite mod makers by whatever way they want like patreon or whatever.

[@majormoron605]

I wonder what Vicn´s mods would be priced at if he were to put them up on CC... On the topic of Vicn, are you planning to review Dacoda? Recently played through it and it was a great experience. No voice acting so far though

[@rickychase18]

i mean my only problem with paid mods and the creations in general is that there is no way inherently to know if its a good or bad one as there's no review system or anything to leave comments within the creations from people who have spent money and tried it. but ultimately its always player choice if you pay or you don't buy the mod right ? like so much of what you've spoken about makes sense in that there's no set standard or expectation on the quality of a mod that's asking for money. but also its just its asking for money ... the consumer is what should be setting the standard of pricing in terms of the more popular a mod is or more valid to the player base etc obviously more cost is usually less arguable. and of course bethesda could crack on in terms of adding more rules or a set standard to class pricing at so the consumer would have more way of judging a mod without having to do more research via out of the game.

[@rickychase18]

also yeah that refund system didnt even know it existed haha thanks

[@swordofbushido8495]

Bards College Expansion is the only paid creation I played, and definitely worth it. But as you said George, I’m worried about bad actors splicing packs for the purpose of a quick cash grab.

[@TheBlazingBarrager]

I really like your arguments, and I agree with them completely.

[@chrismiller5940]

When the Creation Club for Fallout 4 was released they gave everyone a few hundred atoms to use in the store, mine are still there rotting away. The few things I found in the first month or so that were somewhat interesting had already been released months before for free and I already had them. Best mod I ever installed was the one that broke the Creation Club connection to the game.

[@cyberstryke]

This was a nice concise overview and I feel you did a good job in presenting the situation with creations in a fair and constructive manner. I for one agree that creations has the potential to be great if we get the type of quality that Bards College Expansion offers, and that Bethesda needs to further dictate what is allowed as a full blown paid creation. If we as a community can continue to provide this type of constructive criticism and feedback, rather than just spewing vitriol, then I believe we can have a positive impact and see things turn out in a way that we would prefer. Thank you for being a positive platform and voice in the community!

[@TychoKingdom]

They need to fix the base game if they are gonna dare to sell mods. Otherwise kicks rocks.

[@thecoffeebadger5807]

I'm glad that you addressed this issue with paid creations again. To be more plain, the weapon, spells and texture pack creations are a complete scam and are not worth the cost. Creations like East Empire Expansion, Coven of Crones and other mods like it are worth buying because of the creator's true purpose behind the creation. Thank you George for showing that side of Creations. I hope in the future that these type of creations quiet out the asset trash versions.

[@mikedc101]

I apologize for bringing up an unrelated topic. The images you use to promote each of your videos. I am sorry, but I can not remember what they are called. Anyway, I was wondering if they were images you took yourself because another KZbinr who also did a playthrough of Coven of Crones uses the same image you did for your first video of the series in his fourth video of the series. Griffen Drago 2 Gaming is the KZbinr's username. I do not want to cause a problem if there is not one, but it does seem strange that he could have taken the same image. Have a great day.

[@0periodproductions]

Yeah he unfortunately took my thumbnail

[@Mixer_Prime]

What kind of time travel? I just got the notification for the video and it said it just came out 😂

[@Mixer_Prime]

And yet the comment came out four days ago 😂

[@John_3004]

​@@Mixer_PrimeI was so confused by this comment, but I think it's due to membership😂 The commenter has a membership on ZeroPeriod so was able to view the vid earlier

[@justanotheraccounthere2014]

Sadly asset flips have been and are likely to continue their existence in any un-curated digital stores. Steam, Google Play you name it, tons of asset flips. To mitigate this, charging a listing fee per new release is the most common practice (Steam and its 100 buck per game Steam Direct fee) so that many flips would become economically nonviable. Its effect though is debatable. And trying to codify "quality release only" is not going to get you anywhere as there is no loophole proof law.

[@mgallogical7114]

the only problem i have is all the asset flips. almost every creation is mostly reuploaded free or cheap assets. and I'm also worried Bethesda are to start attacking the free mod market. you know protecting there best interests. the more involved they get.

[@kahrnivor]

They've already done that. What do you think all these little updates are about? They break mods and that's pretty much it.

[@KingpinCarlito]

Just Bethesda unintentionally destroying their modding scene and therefore their games

[@peacefusion]

you know any other company supporting their modders?

[@kahrnivor]

@@peacefusion CD Projeck Red

[@peacefusion]

​@@kahrnivorthe reply was meant to show awareness of Support. Bethesda and CDPR are conpanies that Support their modding community, unlike the op that misleads as "destroying"

[@shotgunmcshotgun1142]

​@@peacefusion the modding community supports itself and I can bet that an author can make more by just having a co-fi link on their nexus page instead of handing the rights to your work over to Bethesda

[@Eian117]

Thank you. You just saved me some money 😂😂

[@Ikarusu]

You would think paid mods would inspire a developer to make a expansion size dlc, but instead we get asset flips of weapon packs.

[@dkirby9052]

I am still not happy about paid creations disabling achievements. If I am going to pay for a mod then I should still have achievements enabled. Although I do agree that it should only be enabled for mods that are not cheat mods. The Bard's College Expansion really surprised me, not just with how much content that it added but how much I enjoyed it. The emissary quests, dueling, new perks for your shouts, a unique sword all along side the main quest. I still feel that it was well worth the money. It took a faction, if you can call it that, in the game and made it into something that I actually wanted to be a part of. I bought Spell tome craft and I am still disappointed with the whole thing. First of all some of the ingredients are not easy to find and obtain. Some of the ingredients just make no sense, like a torch. Second, you can craft vanilla spells that already exist in the game. Why would I pay real money to craft spells that I can get buy paying in game gold? To be fair, it does add some new spells like water walking or cure disease that are much needed. Basically, just use a free version of this mod.

[@Shroud66]

And here I thought you were going to mention the real "first paid creations". The infamous steam mods market.

[@adhx7506]

Idk but the Creation Club really made it feel like Mini-DLC thats really been selected by Bethesda themselves. Creations just feel like Nexus Mods but with money you gotta spend on them.

[@redwolfstudios5699]

Love your stuff, support your video's whenever I can and I appreciate it, even though I don't support it myself, that you still showcase these so people have an idea of what they are buying, like you said at the end of the video. I just simply cannot support the paid mods program, I likely never will, but absolutely in its current form. No hate to the authors taking advantage of it and trying to do something decent, but no matter what, putting something for sale on this platform, just proves to BGS that this is profitable, and I can't view that as any other way than shooting the community in the foot. Thank you for what you do!

[@jamesdsixl4823]

Bethesda should just add a bethesda's suggested price for every mod or just a way to indicate value of a mod. That would steer users towards higher quality mods.

[@mcbrunson]

I don’t necessarily think that DLC-sized mods have to be the sole future. I think smaller creations for armor, weapons, player homes and whatnot can still work, but they just need to be priced in a way that makes sense. $1-2 would be fine. Creators are certainly in their rights to charge for their work, as they are not obligated to work for free. But they need to understand that they aren’t going to get rich doing this, especially not with Bethesda getting a cut.

[@0periodproductions]

I think that's a good way to look at it too. I actually really liked the old Alternative Armors on Creation Club, new armor sets, very short quests to obtain them, for $1. If we saw more of that from Creations it's something I could get behind

[@kahrnivor]

I agree that they shouldn't be required to work for free. But if I'm paying for a mod I expect quality and updates. I don't expect that for free mods even if I donate.

[@peacefusion]

funny, because most complaints on free mods Are people expecting quality even there like more features, versions, patches, etc.

[@randomthings1293]

Paid mods are bad. Period. 1-2 bucks per mod is insane. We're talking 100 dollars for a 100 mods modlist. The audience for mods would completely collapse, as nearly no one is able to spend such money for mods. And with the audience, the number of mod authors and thus the creativity available for mod creation would collapse too. *Paid mods kill modding. Modding is a potluck. Do not invite people who solely want to sell food at the potluck* .

[@panzer00]

The interesting thing about "they are not obligated to work for free" is that it presupposes that there is an expectation from consumers for a mod author to "work for free." If a mod author is worth their salt, they have donations and subscription services set up for those users who want to donate; expecting to be paid for making a mod is ridiculous. Selling mods is antithetical to modding and why modding exists in the first place. Modding started when people began modifying the software that they bought, that they own, and sharing those modifications to the code with other people. The expectation that a mod author should be paid is a total corruption of what modding was and is; Bethesda wants to commercialize modding and control it as if it were an industry. All the while doing no quality assurance in their own games that they sell mods for. What happens when Bethesda tries to sell mods that fix bugs that they should be fixing?

[@p0ltergeisha]

not really super related to the video; but i think a video of your top 5-10 quest mods in skyrim would be cool. or top 5-10 modded followers. i trust your opinion because i know you playtest like all of these types of mods and i love hearing your reviews after you finish one.

[@magus8015]

Still talking about paid bullshit, eh? It’s keeping people buying this garbage that’s ruining modding and keeping Bethesda from you know….Actually putting out a GOOD, finished game? 7 years since ES6 Announcement? Yeah…let that sink in…but we got Paid “Creations, AE release and several game breaking updates since. You people buying this garbage is a major factor of Bethesda stop giving a shit about users. Will never pay for any creation, because modding should be free. Flame all you want, I’m not wrong.

[@Sporkonafork1]

You’re completely right and I agree with your take 100%. I hope Bethesda fail at this point, as I can’t bear to witness how they brutally murder The Elder Scrolls for good with TES VI.

[@Hammanskraal02]

The worst part is that I (a ps5 player) dont have access to most of the good creations

[@angryglock]

The very worst part of this is NO COMMENTS allowed on the creations. If you are taking part in this stuff you have no way of know the quality or the thing you are paying for, can't refund it or warn others about it. The whole thing is awful.

[@TheVampireFishQueen]

All I can say is don't use Creations.

[@xKindle]

yup, they revealed these paid mods quietly when Grand Theft Auto 6 trailer was released to avoid backlash

[@maxgehtdnixan4913]

I'm pretty sure "silent moon weapons" used to be free or is using assets from what was a free weapons mod.

[@georgecochran4091]

I really appreciate the information. I have a bad habit of getting things because they look new. I haven't bought any payed mods because I got the ones from launch. Are there any mods you would recommend a PS5 user. I really like vampire stuff

[@marsbarenjoyer]

paid mods shouldn't have made a comeback after the original complaints

[@sasspiria1872]

There needs to be way more quality control. I'm not opposed to modders getting paid but omg there are some modders who are being way shadier about it than Bethesdas Creation club was.

[@netsquire]

The update that added this made the mod manager borderline unusable with weird bugs that, when support is contacted, they claim is purposeful. It’s really a shame

[@TheVampireFishQueen]

It was fixed in a day also proof that they claim was purposeful?

[@Chudnugget]

About custom assets on playstation, mod authors have found ways to port mods that weren't possible before. I won't speak on their behalf, but playstation mods could come a lot closer to xbox quality.

[@AgentwolfXII]

i do have a question will u give ur own opinion on Lorerim/novlus in the future? would like to hear ur opinion on them ^^

[@nohero1339]

I hate that PAID mods go against your mod limit and the mod menu doesn't show you how much space the paid mods takes unless you purchase it. So I've paid $5 for something I don't have room to download and play unless I delete everything because that damn ghost file thing that is still a issue on Xbox

[@AHungryHunky]

I didnt know Kinggath was trying to launch an indie game studio. Definitely going to find room in my budget for future creations from his team, and thanks to what you said I may give the other two DLC sized creations a shot, when I am done with my current character as I have Bruma installed on my Xbox and thats a chunky mod. As to my opinion on creations, I agree, the box has been opened. Im mostly neutral on the concept, beleiving that if a mod author wants paid for their work they have every right to ask, but also recognizing that many just want paid without doing the work. There needs to be some sort of universal author rating system so consumers can communicate with eachother if someone is on the up and up or of they are a sleazeball putting out barely functioning work and charging a mint.

[@DaringDan]

At least Bethesda didn't do this back when they were industry leaders in innovation and creativity. Can't wait for Skywind and Skyblivion. Also, I just stick to Wabbajack lists now. Bethesda's games aren't worth hours of modding anymore.

[@grungehog]

They literally invented microtransaction in the western gaming industry, did you forget horse armour?

[@Venomdrad]

No they didn’t. Horse armor was just a regular dlc with a function. Low effort dlc, but not like a microtransaction that we all know today. You’re not spending real life money to buy in-game gold, levels, or whatever. It’s not repeatably buyable on one account either. Once you have the dlc, it’s done.

[@GamersonicRyanBruno]

21:16 what I wanted was new and unique weapons that you get form an epic quests. And the weapons and quests have to fit into the game. As having lore, rememberable npcs, new areas or lands and weapons people want to use in their game. For example bards collage expansion and the coven of crones. I want something more interesting not lacking of interest.

[@asevril2530]

Crazy to think mods showcased in this video are paid while mod authors like Vicn (VIGILANT, GLENMORIL author) are making incredible DLC sized mods that are free lol

[@anthonym840]

Honestly i think simply avoiding the lack luster content and focusing on sizable content like, coven of crones, Bards college expansion or even the Truth in legends dlc a while back ( which i thought was pretty good personally) is really going to say more to the people trying to just get a quick buck, then not. As usual we can just choose what we actually want to spend money on. Good content. I will say that if i wanted to make a mod, (which i do, personally). I wouldnt charge over 2 dollars for it, if i was in the program. And if i were to make a mod it would be a darker themed mod based on the companions, the dawguard, and the Volkihar clan. I feel that the Companions was lacking in the amount of sizable content dawnguard had. I also didnt like the fact that they didnt have much interaction with eachother. Vampires didnt really care that werewolves were around, compainions in the base game seemed to act like vampires werent actually apart of an over arching issue, and Dawnguards seem to ONLY care about destroying vampires,( which is what id imagine their profession would do.) But each side offers a component of potential risk or allience in skyrim that could have impacted the world even more than the Volkihar did when attenpting to block out the sun in the dawnguard questline. I just feel that concept lacked depth. Especially when alot of us grew up with the concept that vampires and werewolves were a threat to each other as well as everything else outside of their eternal fueds. I would expand on all 3 of those factions as well as flesh out the silverhand even more. as of right now the fact that their just some bandit swine renamed as silverhand is just garbage storytelling to me. It would be interesting to see an organized bunch that have decent intentions. Just abunch of concepts ive been swirling around in my head. But if i were to make a mod like this happen it will likely be a passion project more than anything, so if i wanted to charge anything for it, it would likley be a dollar at max. I feel like u shouldnt have to pay 10 dollars for something on the creations page, even if its good, well crafted and sizable content.

[@georgehamiltons8595]

PlayStation also does not allow custom made code which sucks terribly

[@Vizorgz]

Bard's College Expansion, Blood and Snow, and Coven of Crones are what paid creations should be. DLC sized expansions offering completely new experiences to shape a playthrough around. This is the sort of content I am willing to open my wallet for and should be encouraged by the program; because this sort of content does have non-trivial costs associated with it. Not weapon packs. Not new player homes. I absolutely agree that Bethesda should be more picky about what they allow into this program for consumer purposes.

[@Alex_FRD]

Yohoho and a bottle of whatever they drink in Skyrim.

[@cynic5581]

I just tend to not buy things I don’t like or feel are poor value. It’s kind of the ways stores work, very few thing in them are things I’m actually interested in so I don’t buy those things. Maybe you have an example of a digital (or physical) storefront that every single item they sell is something you like with amazing value?

[@gaminreasons8941]

People keep raging about "paid mods is gonna kill free modding" when that's simply not the case. People that make free mods are doing so because they have the free time and passion to do so. People have made, and will continue to, make mods just because they want to. When a mod is both High Quality and Free, it's very hard for a Paid Mod to compete with it, in which case only the best of the Paid Mods even enter the realm of discussion about what's worth buying. I'm willing to bet that the lowest quality mods talked about in this video, things like texture replacers and asset flips are selling about as well as Dog Shit, because as good as they might look it isn't hard to find Free Mods that are of similar quality or better. The Mod Apocalypse isn't coming, and you fear mongerers just draw attention away from the real problems that modding has, paid or not.

[@cr8595]

The thing that actually kill the free mod community is the people b*tching about paid creations instead of joining the free community making mods. It's a community bro. Tf you mean by killing? Just join and start sharing mods! that's all...that's how a community never dies...join and share bro, it's free! And I'm not talking about you George, you have fair points and those are right. For the others in the comment section. There are still authors who share new cool mods for free and new authors as well, but people can't even make a comment on their mods...you all should support the free mods as well.

[@Hari-Harmonies]

Let's hope Bethesda grows a soul before ES6

[@vanders4198]

I personally loved the idea of Creations when they were official Bethesda content by contracted authors of the community. They were actual lore, like mini-DLCs, and came bundled with the game. Now they're literally just paid mods. Not actual lore and not official.

[@coachisbae7653]

I'm sure kinggaths vreation is worth the money and is great but the fact that I an xbox skyrim player basically cant have any other mods if i download it will forever keep me away from it plus theres an extremely similar mod on fallout 4 for free.