Skyrim's Civil War is more complicated than you think...

[@ParadigmShiftInc]

At this point, all I want in ES6, is 3 NCP's named Scott, Michea,l and Drew, who sit in a Tavern all day and debate Tameielic history. you guys, as well as other KZbinr, like Camelworks, MXR, and Imperial Knowledge have helped kept the fanbase alive for years, and I think it's only right that Bethesda honors you guys with at least a shoutout in the next game.

[@soldiergigas14]

Patience is a great virtue friend. I have been distracting myself with Pokémon, God of War, Elden Ring and recently, Black Myth Wukong. 👍❤️

[@leannemedhurst9662]

They should be the new bards college

[@slixkkdemon17]

fuck a shoutout, they need to be given JOBS in the creative team.

[@unclespeedwagon1302]

Watch the fan animation "THLMR 4 - Tavern" by AllinAll, you get basically exactly that, even if it its is technically noncanon

[@moskaumaster1594]

I doubt Bethesda would want to bring much attention to MXR

[@cap_junn6397]

The issue ive always had with skyrims civil war is how despite its narrative implications, it never felt like it was actually happening

[@GarlicPudding]

Check out the Open Civil War and Warzones mods. They add a lot of spawnpoints for Stormcloaks and Imperials to fight each other. Plus a ton of other faction skirmishes (Forsworn, rogue mages, etc)

[@grilledleeks6514]

Yeah mods fix this on pc

[@Grandmaster_Dragonborn]

As far as skirmishes in the world? I think that’s 2011 gameplay limitations, not an actual fault on the game. Otherwise, you do get the feeling through in-game dialogue from characters of all kinds, it’s interesting how whether it’s a blacksmith, war general or the leaders themselves, you can talk to them and hear their perspective, it makes it feel like a real conflict with real people.

[@lexaray5]

Huh, really? I have the exact opposite impression. NPCs talk about the civil war as well as how it's impacting them and Skyrim as a whole nonstop. The first decision you have to make in the game is who to go with through Helgen Keep. The biggest visual consequence of the game is the permanent damage caused to Whiterun. It felt like it was far more central to the world and even the game story than the actual main quest.

[@Nathan-zw7nq]

@@GarlicPuddingyeah I have some kind of skirmish so that is very common to see in the distance a group of 30 or so imperials and stormcloaks having at each other. Usually what happens is only a 2-4 survive and go their own way. That’s how Bethesda should have handled it

[@danielbriggz]

GUYS, ITS A LORE VIDEO!!!!!

[@zauvimoo]

The lore Muppet has been missed

[@alexsao1105]

Another lore video before Elder scrolls 6

[@crabbuckets7506]

A rare occurrence.

[@donwald3436]

Orange still bad tho.

[@jmw1500]

Thanks my redguard.

[@anthonyolavarria1653]

Ulfric is being heavily influenced by Galmar Stone-Fist, I believe he convinced Ulfric to kill Torygg. The first time you enter palace of the kings Ulfric is hesitant on what to do with Whiterun and Balgruuf and ultimately decides to try a more diplomatic approach but Galmar is insisting violence right of the bat and encourages Ulfric to kill him. The way Ulfric is acting here isn't like someone that would kill a king when he had other options. Most of their interactions Galmar's first impulse is to fight and gets exited before civil battles while Ulfric comes off as he doesn't seem to actually want to fight until he feels it's nessesary. Galmar usually wins. In the end they are Ulfric's choices but I believe Galmar had a huge role to play in starting the war.

[@softreyna]

Oooh, good catch. I've always thought that a sensible Dragonborn could successfully advocate to Ulfric on behalf of non-Nords living in Skyrim after the events of the game, and while I definitely didn't notice this consciously I wonder if it's part of why I get that feeling

[@xineohpinakc264]

I believe that is also why Galmar's brother is shown strutting around drunk yelling at Dark Elves. Across the river Ulfric's father welcomed the Dark Elves with no expectations when they escaped the red mountain. Ulfric's father seemed a like a kinder and more gentle Jarl.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

Galmar is the main reason I'll never do a stormcloak run. Dude is stupid af and wants to kill his own countrymen if they don't join immediately. The thalmor love him because he's a prime target for something like reverse psychology.

[@runningthemeta5570]

Your point makes me question if maybe Galmar could be that Thalmor double agent Michael mentioned.

[@nicwalker882]

@@runningthemeta5570huh…

[@joshuajefferson3504]

I like how people still debate the skyrim civil war till this day. 😂😂😂

[@gershwinwest]

And gon debate on it till Talos says something 🤝🏾😂😂

[@joshuajefferson3504]

​@@gershwinwest😂😂

[@chriscormac231]

@@gershwinwest Ulf in morrowind is one of Talos' mortal guises and he agrees that tge empire is due for replacement

[@spider-spectre]

Cause nothing has changed.....the story has literally been stagnant till they make something new that is after in the timeline.

[@SwooshJush83]

Hopefully the new game answers that question

[@KyleDGrizzly]

I feel like we need A Skyrim Modlist from Fudge Muppet because this whole video is gorgeous and I love curtain details like Irelith wearing Dunmerian armor.

[@somberflight]

I love the armours in this video. We need the mods

[@KyleDGrizzly]

@@somberflight A lot of the armors are NordWarUA mods but the armor general tullius uses is Titus Mede I armor which gives you the option to have it be general tullius’ armor when you install it. I’ve been researching. 😅

[@somberflight]

​@@KyleDGrizzlythanks. They seem decently realistic, apart from a couple

[@urbonx]

I love fudge visuals.

[@EchoEchoEchoEchoEchoEchoEchoEc]

This video made me realize why Ulfric is so against Elenwen's participation in peace talks in the quest: Season Unending. She's not just the chief of their inquisition squad, she's the person who tortured him in his youth during the great war, and the one who (probably) planted the idea it was his fault that the imperial city had fallen. It's like bringing a still-abusive ex into a therapy session. Tulus has the balls to call out Ulfric about 'good faith' multiple times but then brings that nightmare as an official representative. Also, considering this context, and other events Ulfric views himself as a failure for (not being there for his father's death while stuck in jail/that whole deal in Markarth), I can understand why he feels like 'I fight so that all the fighting that's already been done has not been for nothing'. He speaks both generally about the Nords/Skyrim and himself personally. Dude NEEDS a win, and this may be his last chance.

[@rontretta749]

It doesn’t get better than a lore video from the OGs. Honesty bethesda owes so much to you guys, Great video Lads ❤️

[@Reign_Dropz]

Thank god Fudgemuppet released a hour and a half long elder scrolls video. Now I can finally sleep by the nine is been months

[@garrettlaturski6703]

The debate almost reminded me of Lawful vs Chaotic Alignments in D&D. Lawful Alignments tend to care more about order and structure, where as Chaotic Alignments tend to care more about freedom and self determination. Both have their benefits, and their downsides, and they are considered to be separate from Good vs Evil.

[@TwoMana]

I am truly blessed, I had exhausted your whole channel of Skyrim content and now you have just given me an hours worth of content.

[@Mary_Beth_Reimer]

I play their videos quite often as background noise when I go to bed. I find I pick up on stuff I missed as I'm listening when I wake up.

[@JokinMichel]

​@@Mary_Beth_Reimerglad I'm not the only one 😅

[@menialbee]

i feel like at this point even when elder scrolls 6 comes out, well still return back to skyrim

[@Mary_Beth_Reimer]

True, considering I still like to play Oblivion too, lol

[@KaijuSlayer54]

So, you're finally awake.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

Jeremy Soule won't be in ES6 sadly... and bethesda is woke. Skyrim was the last real ES game. Fun while it lasted.

[@connivingkhajiit]

We will just have to wait and see what ES6 holds. I have hope that it will be good, with the amount of time it's taken, but if it isn't I will not be too surprised.

[@GrievousReborn]

​@@LoftOfTheUniverselet me play you a song with the world's smallest violin

[@georgehouliaras7239]

We are back, sons and daughters of Skyrim.

[@madisonsosa21]

The true sons and daughters of Skyrim

[@InhabitantOfOddworld]

We are SO back

[@ViewtifulBeau]

I am the Eternal Champion

[@3TYKX]

We are the true heirs to the Empire of Talos.

[@TheHK_47]

​@@3TYKX and the rightful rulers of skyrim

[@UnswimmingFishYT]

Important notes on random things: Talos actually has a totally reasonable and non-conflicting explanation behind his racial identity. He's thought of as an Imperial, but the Imperial race(s?) of Colovia and Nibenay are known to include ancient Nordic blood. The mention of "men of Kreath" as Ayleid slaves confirms this at the least, along with intermeixing throughout centuries of good relations. Typical Nord and Imperial people are racially so close, even assuming a racist pair of people you'd get intermarrying a lot. He's described as being short and has been called "manmer" suggesting Breton lineage, but we also know for sure that his original name was Hjalti Early-Beard (Ysmir is a title also shared by Wulfharth he later becomes part of the Talos being and also by the Dragonborn in TES V and other unknown characters likely had it). Based on all of this, and the fact that a person can inherit racial traits from a father but is usually the race of the mother overall, one could safely say Hjalti was a Skyrim-born Nordic man with Breton blood possibly related to the ancient Nord invasion of High Rock and the potential of average Imperial blood but in total was a Nord. A Nord with some mixed blood, making it fitting that he became the spirit of human undertaking. Chim-el Adabal is not actually the name of the Amulet of Kings, rather it's the name of the red diamond which holds all its magic. Red because it's magically infused blood from Lorkhan, which absorbed Aetherial power from an Ayleid well and was further enhanced by Akatosh's influence. This does not directly conflict with ebony being Lorkhan's blood because that could be the result of his normal blood 'drying' in a metaphysical sense and when his heart formed Red Mountain it likely spread through incredibly deep underground movements by means of magma flows, explaining the incredible magical power of such magma as seen with the Aetherium Forge. Titus Mede II knew he would be assassinated, and there's evidence he may have partially orchestrated it himself, although not totally confirmed. We also have some confirmation that a replacement emperor immediately sits the throne, because the characters in places still refer to one, and the detail was even put in place that Tullius administering the oath to the Dragonborn slight adjusts his words to reflect the death of Titus. This probably means that his son, a man who would most likely be in his forties, inherited his throne.

[@anyashindler3781]

Wait, we’re going to ignore that Ulfric was ok with child murder? Yeah, sorry that’s why I don’t side with him regardless of his history

[@UnswimmingFishYT]

@@anyashindler3781 He's also quite comfortable with letting Argonians live like abused slaves, letting the Dunmer in his city live in a trash heap that guards barely pay attention to, and is very irrational in thinking Skyrim would stand any chance against the Dominion without help. Considering his forces would have almost no mages if they had any at all, and one talented wizard could burn or electrocute a whole column of Stormcloaks in the right situation, he's clearly a bit crazy on top of the reality of how bad he'd be as a ruler. We already have an example of how bad he is at running one city, so running all of Skyrim he'd make it a bad place.

[@rjfarris8324]

⁠@@UnswimmingFishYTthe Argonians aren’t let into the city for the safety of themselves and the Dunmer. The Dunmer constantly enslaved the Argonians through out all of Tamriels history. Black Marsh invaded Morrowind shortly after the eruption of Red Mountain, slaughtering countless Dunmer. Ulfric is trying to keep the peace as best he can in his city walls. It’s an unfortunate circumstance but it’s something that is best for both of them. Windhelm was also the only city in the province to let in Dunmer refugees after the eruption and continues to welcome Dunmer still immigrating from Morrowind. Again the only city in Skyrim that lends a helping hand to their eastern neighbors. The state of the Grey Quarter can be justified in a multitude of ways. The general state of Windhelm isn’t great. Hell the state of the entire province isn’t great considering Skyrim, and all of Tamriel for that matter, currently exists in a post apocalyptic state. The Oblivion Crisis coupled with The Great War and The Red Year gutted the continent essentially bringing every province to its knees. Skyrim could hold off the Thalmor just fine. Hammerfell held them off by themselves with no outside help, a province with a similar warrior culture like Skyrim. To assume Skyrim wouldn’t ally with the remaining imperial nations is just wrong. High Rock would likely send forces, as well as Cyrodill, and possibly Hammerfell. The Great War isn’t as surface level as the Empire versus the Aldmeri Dominion. It’s a race war, Men versus Mer so it’s very likely the races of Man would unite against the races of Mer even if the empire exists in a fractured state.

[@Brandelwyn]

Dunmer refuse to assimilate and work with other races thats why they're so poor. And argonians not being allowed inside makes perfect sense considering all the inevitable lizard on knifeear violence ​@UnswimmingFishYT

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@anyashindler3781As if the empire hasn’t murdered any children throughout its history lol. Nobody’s hands are clean.

[@TMatthews98]

A sovereign Skyrim allied with an independent Hammerfell seems very likely, the aftermath of the Great War left both in a similar position and both have a strong warrior culture. The Empire is also gearing up for war. This would force the Dominion to fight multiple fronts, it's possible Valenwood may revolt since it was conquered by the Dominion.

[@Duranous.]

I often wondered if several independent nations would fair better than a crumbling empire in decline. Obviously, Skyrim has many legitimate grievances with how the empire is treating them. The only way I could really see the empire recovering is if it got a new extremely powerful emperor, like the dragonborn. Either way I would think that if an ES6 occurs on the continent of tamriel it should encompass the second great war.

[@bloster_ant]

@@Duranous. Hopefully ES6 doesn’t follow the trend of taking place several several centuries in the future, where all we can do to learn about the aftermath of Skyrim is some books here and there. If it’s NOT mostly about the second Great War, I’m wondering if it’s even worth playing.

[@GunterThePenguinHatesHugs]

I'm terrified for TES6, like I really hope they do the fans justice and take into account all the lore, philosophy and politics? ...But I'm scared that Bethesda will ignore their own rich lore in order to _'Avoid making current-year-applicable political commentary'_ or something weak like that...

[@pfarnsworth84]

​@Duranous. That's essentially what I see as the proper outcome, and why I seriously dislike how dumb and limited the choices are in the civil war quest. The Dragonborn has the demi-god-like power and public influence to single-handedly stop the civil war by assuming control of the Empire, now that Mede II is dead, rebuild the Empire and form an alliance with Hammerfell, Skyrim, and any other province that is sick of the Aldmeri Dominion (at least Valenwood, but the Khajiit and Argonians have gotten the Altmer shaft as well). This combined 'Non Altmer Tamrielic Organization' would be a force to be reckoned with.

[@Saint-of-God-FR]

​@pfarnsworth84 The funny part is that, from a lore perspective, the Dragonborn doesn't need an army to fight off the Altmer. He could simply speak their destruction into existence without hesitation 😅.

[@slightlyshabby9226]

I object to the dichotomy of the Stormcloaks as idealists and the Imperials as pragmatists on the grounds that the Empire's prosecution of the Great War turned out to be less than the sum of its parts. I read an excellent (if recreational) breakdown of the war from a U.S. Army War College grad that pointed out the Thalmor took a number of insane strategic risks that only worked out because the Empire had the strategic reaction speed of a dead snail. They also pointed out that the Thalmor were constitutionally incapable of leveraging conquered territory to generate additional combat power due to their insistence on culling the already low elven birth rate with additional eugenics requirements. In short, the Thalmor had poor attritional power and were reliant on thunderstrokes and daring to overwhelm the Empire. The Empire played directly into this strength by being moribund, slow, and incremental in their warfighting. The analysis concluded that Hammerfell and Skyrim were both likely capable of resisting Thalmor occupation on their own due to terrain, culture, and manpower considerations, and that Skyrim in particular, if no longer drained of silver and fighting men to defend Cyrodil's borders, likely could defend itself better on its own than as a resource contributor to the Empire. The analysis also questioned the oft-repeated opinion that the Empire had no choice but to sign the Concordat- the Empire had almost no intelligence on Thalmor force-generation resilience after the battle of the Red Ring, because the Empire had made no discernable or coherent effort to establish what they were up against other than the immediate field armies of the Thalmor on the Tamrielic mainland. Again, given Elven birthrates and the near-complete destruction of two Elven field armies, it is highly likely the Thalmor were actually facing a huge personnel crisis- something borne out by the success of the Hammerfell succession, which the Thalmor should have crushed if they had the reserves the Empire assumed they did when the Concordat was signed. In sum, the Empire prosecuted the war poorly, gave up on just as impulsive a decision as the one to go to war in the first place, then sold out the non-core portions of the Empire out of fear, and finally was embarassed when one of those provinces showed the decisional bankruptcy of those choices by going its own way successfully. This isn't to say there isn't an ethical downside to the Stormcloak position- they are essentially advocating the abandonment of mankind in Cyrodil to the mercies of the Thalmor because they don't consider that part of mankind worth defending. Then again they'd say the men of Cyrodil abandoned them first. That's not a morally good reason to abandon your species to the enemy, but it is an understandable one. But the idea that the Stormcloak rebellion is impractical because Skyrim cannot resist the Thalmor without the Empire is a purely Imperial point of view, and given the failings of that point of view thus far, deserves to at the very least be questioned.

[@Venneroth]

I daresay that's the source of the outrage surrounding the Concordat. The war was, at the time of the signing, a brutal, bloody stalemate. The treaty is more akin to what a victor would demand and a losing (but not crushed) enemy would sign. We are not made aware of any concessions from the Dominion at all. It's only natural that previously committed Imperial supporters would notice the discrepancy and ask why. I doubt there would have been a rebellion if Mede had simply made a counter-proposal and negotiated a more moderate treaty. It would be very in character for the Thalmor to take advantage of the Empire's lack on intel and use a small unit to create a dummy army waiting to cross the border (the same unit being seen marching under different colors, fake requisition order for supplies, large camps with many campfires at night, etc) to make the Empire believe they were ready for Round 2, but again, we're not made aware of them having done any such thing.

[@gabrielinostroza4989]

That's an interesting analysis but it misses the nuances of the war and the setting itself. The Thalmor literally had magic divination of present and future through the orb of Vaermina, they used this to constantly and very methodically delete all of the empire's intelligence and command structure through assassinations and targetted attacks, they virtually didn't have to spend almost resources to get catastrophically lopsided results thanks to it, when you can see the future and have perfect real time intelligence you aren't taking any risk whatsoever.. By the time of the battle of the red ring the Empire is JUST achieving a degree of strategic cogniscence over their enemy and they had thrown everything in a massive gamble to retake the imperial city immediately after. Even by destroying several elven armies, without any intelligence to go by the empire wasn't in a position to risk continuing the war because they had no idea what other gambits the Dominion was holding on to, in the TES universe a single wizard can turn the tide of battle or even fight an entire army by himself if he's strong enough. And the Dominion, a nation of high elves, still had the most powerful mages in the world in store, and was openly collecting and using Daedric artifacts which can range from enhanced weapons to actual WMDs. It's an even bigger gamble than throwing the entire remaining army into one battle to continue a war like that, not to mention force regeneration and time are objectively on the Empire's side. Lastly, the city had spent months occupied, pillaged and having serious war crimes and daedric horrors inflicted on it as was most of the Cyrodil, the citizenry itself was at its breaking point even if the Imperial forces weren't. Skyrim didn't experience those even if it spent a lot of manpower fighting the war. Civilian morale is very important to support a war effort.

[@paloim]

Where are you getting the idea they want to leave Cyrodil to the elves??? That seems like a British man saying the colonists want England to be overun by French """people""". An independent skyrim would probably join Cyrodil in the event of war with the thalmor, afterall they're chomping at the bit to "take the fight to the elves" and that'd be a very easy way to do so

[@butcherpete2286]

Woah...... I've never thought about it from that big of a scope. Very well surmised and please where do I find this research??

[@gabrielinostroza4989]

KZbin didn't like my reply because i used no-no words apparently but i keep getting notifications, so i'll summarize: The Dominion had the orb of Vaermina which gave them present and future divination powers, none of their high risk moves were all that risky, and they deleted all of the empire's intelligence gathering abilities very early on so the empire was flying blind by the time of Red Ring. They won only thanks to the deus ex machina main character of TES: Legends taking the orb away from the Dominion but it wouldn't have given the empire the ability to accurately assess how spent the Dominion was, not to mention the mages and magic users, as well as other daedric artifacts still in their posession were terrific force multipliers that could have readily overcome the Empires' remaining manpower. It was already a huge gamble to commit to the battle of the red ring, continuing the war would have been completely unreasonable for them.

[@CosmicFreedoms]

A point about "Empire needs to be whole to resist the Aldmeri". The Redguard are doing just fine.

[@jextra1313]

Holding Hammerfell isn't a necessity for the Aldmeri Dominion, it was just a place to assault the Imperial City's tower from. My opinion is that they saw it as a waste of troops to hold Hammerfell after the the White-Gold Concordat was signed, so they put up little fight and fled, to make the Redguards think they could stand alone without the Empire. Altmer are cunning like that.

[@varlak9061]

​@@jextra1313like the Dominion literally seem like they're trying to divide and conquer so that could be the case, hard to take hammer fell when they're spread out would be easier when they control everything and only have hammer fell to fight

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@jextra1313Actually Hammerfell was the priority of the Aldmeri Dominion during the Great War because they wanted complete control of the Abecean Sea, not Cyrodiil and at the time it was experiencing a civil war between the Crowns and the Forebears. However they united and managed to repel the Thalmor even without imperial support and they still stand to this day. This proves that the Thalmor do not have the resources and manpower necessary to occupy a human province.

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@varlak9061Except divide and conquer doesn’t work when the independent polities are focused on fighting the Thalmor. Neither the Stormcloaks nor the Redguards will allow the Thalmor to occupy Cyrodiil and the Thalmor have been proven to lack the resources and manpower to occupy a human province.

[@frankmessina4470]

@@teyrncousland7152 actually Tullius remarks that the only reason the rebellion hasnt been defeated is because the Empire cant spare a single legion to fight Ulfric because the legions are on the boarder prepared to fight the dominion and if they could Ulfric would fall within 2 weeks. Ulfric backs this up if the emperor is in solitude before the end of the civil war remarking that they cant risk an actual war with the empire. it stands to reason the thalmar are in the same situation and cant risk sending an entire army to take hammerfell because theyre preparing for another war. After all they refer to it as "The First war against the Empire"

[@masterronin776]

THANK YOU for clarifying the definition of "asset" as used in the Thalmor dossier. All these years and that is still the most common misconception I see in these discussions.

[@ravendelacour1917]

The Empire in Skyrim compared to the Empire of the past is the Byzantine Empire to the older Roman Empire. It thinks it's the same Empire, calls itself the same Empire, but it's a fragment of the Empire that will slowly dwindle until it is a cultural remnant of a past age.

[@planetofthegames2843]

I'm reading about Byzantine Empire at the moment. It still was great and prosperous (not as Roman). I recommend to read about Belisarius and emperor Justinian. Byzantine Empire was not weak by any means

[@ethans9379]

Narratively, I think the Stormcloaks probably win, and gain independence for Skyrim, but this leaves the Empire potentially more vulnerable to the Thalmor

[@vonfaustien3957]

​@@ethans9379acurding to the CODA the Thalmor win wipenout the empire and than the Numidium pops back into normal time and wipes Nirn clean well the Dunmer and Khajiit hide out on the moons

[@ravendelacour1917]

@@planetofthegames2843 Since religious history is a hobby of mine and the Byzantine Empire was critical in the development of Christianity, I am familiar with its history. I agree that it wasn't weak, at first, but over centuries it dwindled until instead of a military superpower, it became a religious center and a trade hub for other cultures and eventually irrelevant. It was the biggest piece left after the fracturing of the Roman Empire and it held on for a long time but it was always on a downward spiral.

[@richter6699]

​@@ravendelacour1917 So it did what literally every great nation does. Amazing. The bloody Roman Empire did the same thing

[@Dinglesmckringles]

I have ZERO faith that Bethesda will create a well-written Elder Scrolls 6

[@Duranous.]

After starfield I also have no faith.

[@drinnoshika4233]

That's why tabletop roleplaying, Homebrewing, and or stuff like Gurps or D&D 5e rules (or 3.5e)

[@eggbreath9631]

@@Duranous.Todd Howard’s magnum opus lmao

[@Duranous.]

@@eggbreath9631 I had no idea that a totally new Bethesda sci fi could be so boring and uninspired...

[@HowManySmall]

Skyrim itself isn't even that well written,games only got lore and not a good in game story

[@ElderVault]

There’s one side of the fight for skyrim left out here: the forsworn. I really think that much like the great war, the forsworn plot line is being saved for the next elder scrolls game, especially if it’s hammerfell and high rock as many people suspect. Maybe it will be a DLC or something where we see that unfurl. Regardless, I would love to see a video like this one that talks about the future of the reach and the forsworn.

[@excubitor3440]

Another thing that gets me with Rogvir...he's a guard on gate duty, the duel happened away from the gates (Blue palace if I recall correctly?). So he sees a man running from fellow guards, gets a few seconds to get things explained from Ulfrics PoV, and then opens the gate? No matter the legality of the duel, in that circumstance he is derelict of his duty in a major way.

[@abomination1753]

Well it’s probably the other way around. He didn’t open the gate for ulfric after the duel but before it. And ulfric most likely announced his intention in front of the gate.

[@Billabongbabalog]

"No matter the legality..." This man is a tyrant.

[@biscuitkeyboard]

​@abomination1753 I believe it is actually stated that he opened the gate after the death of the King. Crazy I never even thought about it though,could be a plot hole but guy was about to be decapitated so maybe he was convinced and just believes it was a fair fight because Ulfric said it was.

[@garrick3727]

Rogvir isn't an Imperial soldier, so his alliegence is to the king of Solitude, the High King. If the HK was killed in an honorable duel then Ulfric is the High King Apparent. Assuming Rogvir knows this, then he's not actually betraying anyone except possibly the Empire. If Nord law is that the duel was legal, then Ulfric did no wrong and can leave. If Rogvir prevents him, he's defying nord law. If he was ordered to not let Ulfric leave, then his guilt depends on whether you believe the Nuremberg Defense is invalid, "I was just following orders." In our world, if you know your orders violate the law, you can be held accountable if you choose to follow them. It seems likely the Stormcloaks would have executed Rogvir for this reason had he prevented Ulfric from leaving. From a nord perspective, however you cut it, it appears Rogvir did nothing wrong. His execution was a war crime. However, we don't know what the Empire's rules of occupation are. He could have been executed according to Imperial law. Which means he was damned whatever he chose to do.

[@garmrbanalras2579]

Isn't this simply an issue of conflicts between nord common law, and imperial law?

[@christianproctor9582]

Its mentioned the empire isnt utilising all its resources to fight the stormcloaks, which means its totally possible the war hardly crippled the empire in the event of a stormcloak victory, and that a possibility of a later team up is still there. How many imperials died, lore accurately in the event of a stormcloak victory do you think?

[@mutegrab666]

Tullius even mentions he was only given half a legion to retake Skyrim. Minus the Battlemages Alduin killed in the beginning of the game.

[@kongilian]

The Gourmet will be missed more than Titus Mede II.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

considering how more useful The Gourmet was than Titus the Incompetent not surprising

[@planetofthegames2843]

you guys clearly don't know anything about Titus Mede II

[@raph3699]

Calm down Amaund Mautierre

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

@@planetofthegames2843 the guy so hated; he participated in stolen valour (claimed he fought at the battle of the Red Ring but was actually the Forgotten Hero) lost Hammerfell, lost half of Skyrim and was assassinated by his own Elder Council. Yeah, dude has a legacy of failure

[@planetofthegames2843]

@@GenericUsername-qp1ww let's say Council did it for the Empire

[@Mikuday]

This is very put of the blue but... I didnt remember how Ulfrics voice sounded... Im so jealous of that VA

[@deveshbhagat2732]

i feel like he doesn't sound like that in the game. not sure, but hadvar definitely sounded fifteenth

[@deveshbhagat2732]

different, not fifteenth

[@Mikuday]

@@deveshbhagat2732 I haven't played in years so I genuinely don't remember

[@verymelonman12]

Honestly I agree with you. The Civil War questline may be underwhelming to play, but there's enough meat for players to spend a decade debating on. And that balance of two viable sides to argue for it's worth praising as far as writing goes.

[@kakkacarmenelectra7229]

It isn’t complicated, it’s actually very simple… SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!

[@alpacino5466]

There was a video made by Imperial Knowledge which states that the imperials have made a lot of progress in clearing this pass. Basically when you retake Fort Neugard as a Stormcloak, there is a note found there which states that a new Imperial force is amassing to advance as Pale Pass is cleared. This note only occurs if you choose Stormcloak. If you choose Empire and take over Neugard, the note doesn't appear. This means that the Empire will eventually prevail no matter what. This is the canon event.

[@Brandelwyn]

Let them come, theyll feed the ravens too

[@alpacino5466]

@@Brandelwyn don't be mad. It was a great effort, considering you were arming farmers and blacksmiths.

[@geoffreymiller9831]

I can never get enough Skyrim content

[@Geeler]

Even though Balgruuf would be the most sensible, and he's a good ruler, he's a bit of a fencesitter. The reason why he's not an option is because he might not help anyone in the end, since it's difficult to please both people who want to live in relative peace (at first), under oppression by the Thalmor, and people who want freedom against near impossible odds. Ideally though, now that I think about it, Balgruuf would be excellent in uniting Skyrim and joining the Empire against the Thalmor

[@ThisUserNameWasNotTaken]

Ol' gruffy balls the fencesitting nord

[@slendemanthetraitorcreepyp4519]

Balgruuf wouldn't be a good leader, think of the city itself the walls are crumbling. He goes out to drink a lot and doesn't care enough about his stewards advice on not doing that. He lets bandits roam his hold and giants attack the farmers cows.

[@BP-dn9nv]

I wouldn't call him a fencesitter as much as he didn't like either option. Siding with the empire would mean accepting thalmor interference, which he's strongly against. When it came clear he had to make a choice he goes with the empire but was sure tulius agrees to conditions he sets.

[@JLM-y5g]

"The World's Most Laughable Centrist"

[@TheLastKentuckyIrregular9524]

Idk. His own advisors point out that he was easily bought. And when he loses Whiterun, his main concern is that he will have to pay a ransom for his family.

[@butcherpete2286]

I cannot wait for this channel to get a boon of both content and subs when the next elder scrolls game releases in 2069

[@ganondoofd4281]

GET OUT OF MY WALLS!!! I just started a new survival character on legendary with some civil war mods trying to be a merchantile character to get immersed, JUST hopped off and less the 30 minutes ago you posted this. Bravo amazing timing I'm scared

[@Alexanderofthe9th]

We are all synced. This happens way too much for it to be coincidence anymore imo

[@codyschuppert4984]

I did the same thing last knight

[@piqle]

i just picked the game up again too out of the blue, 3 days ago

[@RakeeshJ4]

“…although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.” *Resulted* in Ulfric *becoming generally uncooperative’. At least in their own internal correspondence, the Thalmor clearly recount that Ulfric was at one point cooperative after being contacted.

[@MrYotosun]

The craziest thing about this is that people can see and understand all of this deep subtext in a game but are absolutely incapable of doing the same in real life.

[@bacd-nn2lg]

"By the Nine, I hate the waiting, the goddamned waiting."

[@bobbywesker6114]

The stormcloaks didnt try to execute me for the crime of trying to cross the border and stumbling into an imperial ambush. Siding with the stormcloaks just to kill that one captain at the start is worth it alone. The fact Hammerfell was able to fight off the aldmeri dominion as a seperate kingdom without the help of the rest of the empire also makes me think the empire could have won against the dominion, or at least fought for more favourable terms. Whatever their reasons, i think war would have been preferable. I believe that Skyrim, Hammerfall, and the empire should work together to destroy the elves, however. The thalmor are responsible for every life lost since the war began, and every life lost in the civil war for skyrim's freedom. We can only hope that their eventual downfall is absolute, with an elven genocide to make Pelinal Whitestrake blush.

[@james739123]

Here's how I think it should be if a Stormcloak victory 1: Skyrim and Hammerfell form a new alliance. 2: Because of the actions of the Dragonborn on Solstheim, House Redoran and House Telvanni sway the rest of Morrowind to join this new alliance. 3: Convince the An-Xileel of Black Marsh to join this new alliance (or let them join the Empire, either way doesn't matter so long as they don't join the Dominion). 4: Broker an agreement that allows High-Rock and Orcinium to remain in the Empire and keep trade wile acknowledging their independence. 5: Have the Empire attack and liberate Valenwood and the new alliance attack and liberate Elsweyr. 6: Combine forces to invade Summerset and finish the Talmor off once and for all. 7: Rejoice and be merry in victory, and let their be peace for a wile wile alliances can be finalised.

[@jamesmccloud7535]

Bro did you even watch the video before commenting here? Fudgemuppet literally mentioned that one of the reasons hammerfel was able to defend itself was because of help from the Empire and the countless imperials who died killing elves.

[@bobbywesker6114]

@jamesmccloud7535 Sure did. But that just reinforces my point: if Hammerfell managed to hold off against the thalmor with a little help from the empire, then the empire should have been able to win the war.

[@james739123]

@@bobbywesker6114 I agree by the time of Skyrim, the army's of the Empire would have been replaced with new recruits wile the Thalmor would still have minuscule new recruits, and instead of playing an attack on Summerset, he send please to Skyrim to basically oppress a people who largely don't want them there.

[@jamesmccloud7535]

@bobbywesker6114 There's a difference between successfully holding back the thalmor and winning. Hammerfell is still left in ruins with some Thalmor control on some parts of their land. Should've would've is all theory, the empire did try to win but they couldn't completely defeat the thalmor only give themselves enough time to recover and attack again. Everybody knows therr will be a second great war, a united empire is what it will take to win or some divine intervention. If the might of the empire with the help of hammerfell and skyrim wasn't able to defeat them, then what makes you think the stormcloaks with their inferior "military" and no use of magic would be able to. The best Skyrim could hope for is use hammerfell and cyrodiil as a meatshield and use guerilla tactics to hold off the thalmor invading but who knows how long. In order to truly defeat the thalmor you have to strike the heart which is Summerset isles. Skyrim with its non existent naval force, in ruins after a civil war, and after dragon invasion is almost in the brink of collapse economically. They can try getting hammerfell on their side although hammerfell also finds itself divided amongst itself at the moment and is also recovering. What the stormcloaks fought is but a drop of the empires full force because they have to have most of their troops in Cyrodiil because the thalmor can attack again st any moment. If the stormcloaks barely won against locally trained recruits by Tullius then they stand no chance at the full might of the empire taking back Skyrim, nor the Thalmor wanting Skyrim for itself.

[@donttrip8282]

How good is this game/franchise that you can still make engaging content like this years later and we are still here for it??!

[@shadyassassin101]

I was a stormcloak sympathizer for most of my childhood But Allied myself with the imperials when I became an adult.

[@shorewall]

I actually went the other way. I loved the Roman Empire when I was younger, but as I aged, I realized the Roman Empire fell because it had to, and so with the Empire in Elder Scrolls.

[@shadyassassin101]

@@shorewall same, Rome was my whole thing in middle school and early high-school, maybe I never grew out of it, I just like what the empire brings to the table.

[@oniceguard9205]

i'm mixed with this. In one hand i dont really like the empire and how they do some things (like executing people for the mere joy of do it) but, i understand the empire needs to be together to fight the thalmor. As for stormcloaks i do thing they are in the right for the most part but i do not consider ulfric as a good monarch, he only serves well as a comander and also i do think that skyrim probably will survive against thalmor in their own or with hammerfell help

[@EpicPrawn]

34:38 I think Ulfric was probably an only son, and that perhaps being a Greybeard is a higher honor than being a Jarl's heir. With that said I want to devil's advocate that position and say that "his only son" could mean "his only remaining son." While this is unlikely, it's plausible enough that someone could reasonably consider it canon until proven otherwise.

[@shorewall]

It definitely could mean his only son, at the time.

[@CawmeKrazee]

Man just made me a full on stormcloak. Skyrim is for the Nords!

[@dephtons]

I can't believe you guys still do stuff, it's amazing. I've grown so much but you guys a still here, thank you for still making content

[@alexmaurice4274]

Drunk depressed lonely and 1.5 hour video is gonna help me. Thank u boys

[@garg-1]

christ is king, turn to him instead of watching this video, trust me, read the preaching. sending prayers for you stranger

[@b0daddie]

If ES6 isn’t about destroying the Thalmor and Aldmeri Dominion, I don’t want it

[@jaimeXDgo]

The civil war was the best written part of Skyrim's story by far. Not a mere power fantasy, or a good vs bad. No matter how you look at it, both sides are right in their own way.

[@georgelove980]

I hope Skyrim and Hammerfell make a pact called the Sandy Snow Concordant

[@andynorth1776]

How awesome would it be for the Redguards and Nords to join forces, even picking up the Dunmer (who hate the Altmer also), and begin a massive conquest to push those filthy Thalmor back to their little island in the South.

[@james739123]

@@andynorth1776 this is one of the favourite potential stories I wanted told, with the Empire gone, Hammerfell reaches out to negotiate an alliance with Skyrim, and because of what the Dragonborn dose for the people of Solstheim, House Redoran and surprisingly House Telvanni are willing to throw their lot in to crate a new pact against the Dominion, Helgen can be re-taken and rebuilt as a trade hub since Helgen is between Falkreath and the Rift which are the closest to Hammerfell and Morrowind respectively, the borders between the provinces are open so we can advancer to places like Blacklight were you can stop a group of Argonian priest under the control of the An-Xileel harassing shipping routs and maybe broker a peace between them and have Black-March join this new alliance, or to Elinhir were you help the Crowns and the Forebears settle their differences once and for all so they can finally dive the Thalmor from Hammerfell.

[@prozoomy]

​@@andynorth1776if they did . Id hope they can get along. Because nords and red guards are like oil and water at times.

[@ReplicatorFifth]

\m/

[@mikehunt2955]

Stormcloaks for life

[@sethledford9612]

What bothers me most about Ulfric is that he is the war veteran as you stated, thus he should understand the idea of living to fight another day. Honestly I feel like the fact that the empire and Aldmari Dominion will be going to war again since the Aldmeri called it "The FIRST War Against The Empire." All Ulfric is doing is weakening the powers which would stand against the Dominion.

[@shorewall]

I think letting the Thalmor just walk around spying on everything and getting their agents everywhere is proof that the Empire isn't serious. We know they assassinate people, spread lies and propaganda. They want to encourage the Civil War, so why does the Empire let them move unimpeded, and harden opposition to the WG Concordant?

[@ItsJustOneGuy]

Have to side with the empire here. They were making the best of a bad situation. It's not like they wanted to do it. Also Ulfric is being very dishonest here too. He was there for the final battle so he knew the position the empire was in. He completely ignores the context in which the decision to give up was made. That's like Japan saying they should have kept fighting after second Nuke fell. Ulfric has no grand plan to beat the Aldmeri Dominion or even fight them. And Talos was as much of an Imperial God as a Skyrim one. So it makes no sense for him to hate the empire like they did something malicious.

[@luciusdomitiusaurelianus8826]

The Japan analogy is actually very accurate now that you mention it. It's easy to say, "Well they could have won because the U.S. didn't have another atomic bomb," or, "If Vietnam held out, then so could they." Yes. We know that as people after the fact, but they didn't know that at the time. Same circumstances here.

[@PixelCupFootball]

Your guess that Ulfric is not the eldest child of his father because he was sent to the greybeards seems false since Ulfric himself at some point says he's the only child to the 'Great Bear of Windhelm'. He may be lying, but why would he?

[@tonys9397]

Yeah looks like the writers didn’t really think that one through

[@kaitoudark1]

Yep. That's author bias getting in the way of reliable narration.

[@A-Gaymer]

He might mean he's currently the only child. He could've still had siblings before the great war.

[@tonys9397]

@@A-Gaymer thats a good way to reconcile it

[@zonefreakman]

Did he say only child, or only son?

[@40kbrit47]

"Based and Nord-pilled" - Chadmuppet.

[@Jonas_æ]

It’s always astounded me the amount of people who wilfully misinterpret the Ulfric Dossier to strengthen their argument for the Empire as some sort of gotcha - somehow making Ulfric a contradiction of a character who both hates the Empire for betraying Skyrim to the Thalmor, but simultaneously is also secretly working for the Thalmor. All from the word “asset” being only interpreted to mean “he works for them”, rather than “they find him valuable as a way to indirectly disrupt the Empire”.

[@3l_Raro]

as an empire side guy I agree, the dossier is just the thalmor saying that they can benefit from turmoil in the province and that they used to have an instigator in Ulfric's vicinity

[@Jonas_æ]

@@3l_Raro Precisely. As a Stormcloak supporter, I can see so many more appealing arguments to your side without resorting to this kind of low-hanging fruit that doesn't even hold up to scrutiny.

[@3l_Raro]

@@Jonas_æ low literacy strikes, even in videogames

[@richter6699]

It has always been simple for me. The Empire WITH Skyrim barely survived the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks are seriously weakening the Empire and stands way less chance of survival on their own (though not impossible, as Hammerfell managed to survive) The dossier is just the Thalmor themselves stating as much. They see him as an asset because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

shows just how very little attention span Empire fanboys have. They just see "Ulfric" and "asset" and they automatically jump to one of the most moronic conclusions accusing Ulfric as a secret Thalmor enjoyer (despite being tortured by them during the Great War)

[@zonefreakman]

Political leaders like Ulfric don't really exist anymore in the real world, so I think some people might get a shock seeing his bravado or "barbaric" Nordic values on display like challenging Torygg. Ulfric though did prove that the Jarls as well as the Empire became weak, not just in a military sense but in a spiritual and political sense. Leaders like Ulfric can be the most dangerous at times because they might lead a separatist movement that goes on too far, or it leads to some kind of genocide. But that is the possible consequences of weak political leadership. Some people get fed up and want something done. They see an opportunity to do something, the government doesn't want to work with them, so they force themselves into power with rebellion. Usually from a narrative standpoint the rebels in a fictional story are the "good" guys like the Rebel Alliance in Star Wars. It is somewhat more murky with the Stormcloaks in Skyrim, but they have understandable grievances.

[@WillMuny]

When you say Genocide, do you mean abducting, torturing and murdering people because they are of a particular religion?

[@zonefreakman]

@@WillMuny Sure, that classifies as genocide.

[@nonamegiven202]

Honestly I'm about 80% sure TEV VI is going to be us reforming the Daggerfall Covenant, circular stories and all, so for that alone my money is on the stormcloaks winning the civil war.

[@ReplicatorFifth]

I’d rather slit my wrists vertically than play another DC storyline.

[@rebornlich]

BABE WAKE UP, NEW FUDGEMUPPET ELDER SCROLLS CONTENT JUST DROPPED!

[@FastUpdates]

So basicly ulfric stormcloak is cool asf, learned how to shout, killed the previous king and became king himself, hes fighting for the freedom of his people to worship Talos and the Empire sold their people out to remain in power..

[@AngryShrymp]

It was either bend to the dominion or get wiped out entirely. That seems like a better alternative than be enslaved again by elves

[@egoalter1276]

This idea seems quiet unlikely, when hammerfell alone roflstomped the dominons reamining force.

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@AngryShrympExcept Hammerfell proved otherwise and the White Gold Concordat was proven unnecessary.

[@AngryShrymp]

@@teyrncousland7152 but a lot of less-than-favorable events happened after the Oblivion Crisis. Iirc, the empire was slow in recovering after the crisis. The Medes, despite all those time before the Great War, had difficulty securing their legitimacy to the throne consequently weakening the empire's alliance with almost everyone. Not only that, the dominion had a lot of preparation for the war.

[@namenlossterbliche6239]

06:20 is it? The last historically significant/political duel we know of happened in the second era. Assuming there were none other duels of this kind since then, it whould be akin to getting arrested for some archaic and obscure law that for some reason was overlooked since like 18th century in our world. And since we are speaking of tradition wouldn't Ulfric's using the Voice in combat be dishonorable? The way of the Voice is supposed to be a peaceful ideology and yet he had no trouble abandoning it after learning thu'um to go fight in the Great War and later kill king Thorug using it

[@finlay9616]

Thank you for this video. I have too many people I've talked to who see Blonde Hair, blue eyed Nordic looking people who are pretty racist (AT FIRST GLANCE) and they immediately assume the Empire was the good guys. Ignoring the clear story telling, that points to the fact that the Empire, like any Empire, is messy, a bureaucratic nightmare, and people slip through the cracks. Don't forget, is literally one group fighting for religious freedom, and the other tryna to hold a dying Empire together enough to fight off the Aldmeri Dominion. And the side "doing it's best to hold everyone together" was about to end the world by cutting off the main character's head for nothin. No crime committed or anything. Just assumed guilt. In our real world, modern sensibilities that's crazy. But it just shows you, both sides are good/bad/trying their best/failing miserably, and most importantly, they're just human. Flawed, imperfect, occasionally illogical, and emotional AF. I think that point would've been lost of the war was just the Thalmor vs Humans essentially. Because, despite all the playable races being sentient humanoids, it's easy to point to the side that is literally not human and say they're bad. With the story we got, they're both "equal" essentially for our brains to comprehend

[@adamtwamley293]

Great Video I look back fondly at a time when Bethesda was capable of complex and thought provoking story telling

[@teyanuputorti7927]

Great video thank you for keeping the community alive

[@SebasTian58323]

Torygg certainly doesn't appreciate how Ulfric used shouts in their battle and seems to view the whole situation as dishonorable, but then he's also the guy who was killed by someone he couldn't have beaten even without the shouts. Like everyone involved in the war, there are biases from every side. The facts of the fight that most people can agree on are that Ulfric issued the challenge, it was accepted, and Ulfric used the Thu'um in the battle. Everything else is too biased to take at face value. Could the High King mean it literally when he says the shout sent him to the afterlife? Yes, but he could also mean it was what allowed Ulfric to defeat him so quickly. I certainly hope that in ES6 they address what I consider to be the biggest influence on how the war with the Thalmor may play out: the Last Dragonborn and the immense influence they have. Depending on how you played, the Dragonborn is the leader of most of the guilds in Skyrim, has shouts powerful enough to defeat Miraak and Alduin, and can control the minds of dragons, which only the Dragonborn can truly kill. They may or may not be a vampire or werewolf as well. The Dragonborn has possibly studied under masters of every single school of magic, every thieving art, and every type of combat, armor, smithing, and enchanting. They could probably convince most people to stand and fight against the elves, not just the soldiers. They can summon ancient heroes, call dragons, and create storms that span entire regions and clear them away. By the end of the game, they're the single most powerful being living in Skyrim and can have more influence than any Jarl. It would be incredible if the Dragonborn was voted in as the High King of Skyrim after helping all those people, Jarls or otherwise, and saving everything from Alduin. That could be how they get around the issue of who won the civil war as well, by having it just say, "After the civil war in Skyrim, the Dragonborn was made High King in year ****."

[@Shdhdbehj]

I think it would be more likely that the dragon born would become emperor since he actually has a legitimate claim to it after Titus Mead II is assassinated.

[@SebasTian58323]

@@Shdhdbehj he is a proven dragonborn, so that's fair

[@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384]

@@ShdhdbehjHe could sail to Alinor in a dingy and in a few weeks the country would be gone lmao

[@Shdhdbehj]

@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 true lol

[@Afazha]

They can't do that. Skyrim is a role playing game, of which the main character is supposed to have character and personality that you roleplay. You're not suppose to become an all-knowing hero, you're suppose to choose to be a certain person. To justify every people playing the Dragonborn in millions of different ways, they will make them irrelevant, or at least not how you describe how the dragonborn is like.

[@Mary_Beth_Reimer]

Thank you Fudgemuppet! I hope you and your families are doing well. 😊

[@joendeo1890]

At 6:30 Ulfric using the Thu'um in battle is considered bordering on heresy in the nord faith at this time period. Jurgen Windcaller strictly forbid it. And his ideology of the Thu'um is what is the standard practice of the day. So the fact that there isn't more controversy is actually quite strange overall. Less in the actual challenge but in using the voice itself. That Ulfric would so callously disrespect the greybeards is nothing to scoff at.

[@claudiu-mihaipuiu1221]

Finally! I was wondering why neither they, nor anyone else in the comments said this. If Ulfric would have won in a proper fight, I sincerely doubt there'd have been as much of a backlash as there is now. It'd likely still have been viewed as in extremely poor taste, but I think most people would have accepted it.

[@MFenix206]

considering his ideology of the Thu'um has led it to all but dying out and mankind being effectively enslaved by the elves (again) i would say Jurgen was a bit of a dipshit. the Ancient Nords were decidedly misusing the thu'um, but rather than temperance, the Greybeards practice nihlism. they were ready to let the world end rather than help the Dragonborn, a person they openly admit isn't bound by their own arbitrary rules, "learn naughty words" and honestly the words learned? Joor Zah Frul? Mortal, Finite, Temporary? the greybeards show their ignorance. to use a thu'um one must truly understand it. they would call understanding one's own mortality, that one has a finite existence, that one is temporary, evil? knowledge is never evil. it can be acquired through evil means and used to evil ends, but the possession of it has no inherent morality. They are a liability to mankind, and a disgrace to decent human beings. sequestering oneself on a mountain, where your every need is provided for by the generosity of reverent peasants whom you do *nothing* for, is abhorrent. power is meant to be used in service to one's fellows, not withheld in penance for actions three millennia gone by. The Greybeards have the power to aid thier fellow men, and withhold said aid. Ulfric was spurred to war, not from battle lust, but by his moral obligation as a person with power to use it in service of his people a truer interpretation of it's purpose than that of the Greybeards. The Thu'um was given to men by Kyne to be used in the defense of their people. After the dragon war it was used in conquest, an abuse of it's power. The Greybeards however, do not use it *at all* that is as much a misuse of it as using it for conquest. The lack of the THu'um among modern nords is tantamount to their abandonment of Magic as a whole, when in their early years they counted many powerful mages among their number. Nord Society is fallen from what it once was, and if it wishes to survive the lost arts of their forefathers must be reclaimed. One can only hope that they would be used more wisely.

[@claudiu-mihaipuiu1221]

@@MFenix206 Hold on, pardon me? Not a big fan of Jurgen here, but this is a wild take here. Everyone in the game has a deep respect for the Greybeards and don't hold it against them at all that they don't weaponize the Thu'um. Hell, even Ulfric seems to feel quite bad for using the Voice in a way that doesn't fall on the level of the teachings of the Greybeards and says that even he wouldn't want to wantonly misuse the Voice except in emergencies. We're even warned by the Greybeards that "Mortal practitioners of the Thu'um may lose the ability to speak without causing devastation and put people who are not trained in the Way of the Voice in danger due to the strength of their voices." I mean, King Wulfharth was Dragonborn and mastery of the Thu'um but the man could barely speak properly due to that and scribes were needed to actually write up his oaths and orders. And can you imagine the sheer destruction if even 10% of people learned the shout? People would be able to kill and destroy so easily! And if the teachings of the Voice would spread around the world, then spoiler, even the elves would have been able to learn it and unlike humans, would have been able to devote way more time to learn and perfect it and use it than humans could, which, of course, would have likely made humans get stomped on even harder by the elves. Plus, the voice is supposed to be a religious thing and to be used only in self-defence, not to destroy, so your comment is whack.

[@jextra1313]

I think that not enough people in Skyrim know of the Way of the Voice. There would definitely be less support for his actions if people knew he disrespected the Greybeards' wishes.

[@MFenix206]

@@claudiu-mihaipuiu1221 what is a battle mage? The THu'um is the divine language of creation, but at its core it is simply a powerful form of magic. Jurgen RIghtfully curtailed the misuse of the THu'um, but the Greybeards don't use the the Thu'um at all! it is easy to only use a tool in self defense when you isolate yourself from all danger on top of a mountain, where your every need is provided for by people you do nothing to serve. "With great power, comes great responsiblity." with power, you are responsible for not misusing it, but if horrible things are happening and you do not use your power to stop them, you are equally responsible for said things. Ulfric is exactly right. He advocates using the Thu'um only with great consideration.

[@jesseroberts7273]

Ah finally Skyrim. Fudgemuppet I have missed u.

[@nagygergely9618]

One thing I don't think I ever saw mentioned before is that Ulfric as a practicioner of the Thu'um is likely to live significantly longer then usual, meaning that even if he is a 50 year old man, he likely has at least another 50 in him before succumbing to old age.

[@check_karma8549]

2:03 Getting hit with that chain lightning looked like hell.

[@alyailithyia]

These long videos give me life

[@CrayonosaurusRex]

I always thought it would've been cool if, regardless of which side you chose, there would've been Thalmor agents showing up to directly interfere with the dragonborn trying to end the civil war

[@marcopico7074]

Amazing lore video, a work of dedication and love to the series, thank you 👏

[@Blackfreefire-s9n]

Finaly some one IS reviving this great game ❤🎉😢

[@planetofthegames2843]

as if it was dead

[@kenxinhxc1635]

Lol the modding community is active as fuck plus a lot of players still playing this game you can see that real time on steam

[@Blackfreefire-s9n]

@@kenxinhxc1635 nice

[@Capt-Bloodbeard]

The Skyrim civil war is one of the few times I get so invested in politics I wish it was more than go to a fort and fight enemies.

[@SleinJinn]

24:00 A narcissist, yes, but more importantly, a demagogue. The problem with Ulfric is that he sees the world in very simplistic, black and white terms and is unable or unwilling to recognise the very complexity that you're arguing for in this video. And he wields that simplistic worldview to pander to people's instinctive passions without regard to what actually serves their long-term interests.

[@The3LetterAgency]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

[@dutchpatriot17]

Spoken by someone who has never had to endure hardships.

[@teyrncousland7152]

That quote from Kingdom Of Heaven says it all. There’s no excuse for the empire banning the worship of Talos no matter how enforced it was. The gods of this universe not only determine your eternal soul but the fate of the mortal world as well and you can expect divine punishment for this blasphemy. That’s why it’s better to side with the Stormcloaks for fighting to restore Talos worship than with the imperials who seek to ban him to please their elven masters.

[@mewillson]

By far, this is the best video you put together based on "The Elder Scrolls" lore. I have watched and listened to a lot of your lore and story based videos cover this subject area but this has been so well done. Very coherent, very well thought out, very interesting to learn the various perspectives that most of us never consider while playing the game. It is one reason I love the Rigmor Series by Jim. They are real stories based on interesting characters with lore, and depth and cover a lot of possibilities that could have been based on the lore that has been accepted as canon or close to canon. Thank you for the continuing this as I know it takes a lot of work to put these together. "May you live your life through moments, may those moments help you to discover treasures of true value, may those treasures sustain you in happiness all the days of your life."

[@legendzero365]

Honey wake up, new FudgeMuppet lore vid just dropped

[@qwefg3]

Skyrim was interesting, but I doubt we will get another one like it. For me... I lean towards imperials for 4 central points. 1) Sustainability, 2) politics, 3) power , 4) revenge. 1) Sustainability... The conflict lives and dies on Ulfric shoulders for the most part. I know that sounds harsh, but if he wins the war how effective will by any of his successors? Even then his faction is mostly focused on the Nords. not for the people who have lived in Skyrim for generations as there is no cultural ties to Skyrim. Only blood ties. The imperials are suffering, but there is more of a focus on nationality rather than blood. Even then if their emperor dies they can swap him out. If their leaders die they can find replacements. If their soldier die they can make new supply chains to send more soldiers. 2) politics. Imperials sucks, but I stand with more of their choices over the Storm Cloaks. Yes I think it is bad that the imperials gave up their official worship of one of the best gods in a universe where the divine can literally lend a hand to aid (or doom) an entire nation... but I say worship him in secret and stab any pointy ear jerk with a sharp knife and blame their deaths on the local threats. They already have a group of tribals murdering officials in a Nord city. SO just blame them. The imperials can call upon everyone within their borders to help fight for them. The Storm Cloaks have no desire to ally themselves to those who are not nords. Even their center of power has major issues with the dark elves and the argonian population. Mostly I can see the Imperials recovering, but I can't see the Storm Cloaks getting further than being a more isolationist faction that tends to itself as it keeps kicking people off their lands. 3) Power. Imperials had won the war until dragons got involved. Imperials were winning the war so the aldmeri dominion went to aid Ulfric to ensure he hurt the imperials more. The fact than an undead witch trying to revive herself back from the grave might have a stronger claim to the throne than Ulfric did... also kind of hurts. 4) Revenge. Imperials lost. Elves take a while to fix their population numbers and losses. Throw in a generation or two in waiting and the imperials might be ready for round two. I mean even their emperor didn't mind if he died so long as you turned that blade on the person who made the hit. To smile at your (hired) killer and laugh as you try to convince them to murder the person behind it... I give the imperials props for that. Storm Cloaks... the term 'useful idiots' comes to mind. Ulfric won by using the 'shout' and then stabbed foe defeated by it. I could claim I killed someone with a sword right after blowing their legs out with a shotgun, but nobody would call me an expert fighter. Made worse by the fact that Ulfric was older, stronger, more experience with a blade and should have easily been able to murder the High King by blade alone... but he didn't. The elves keep playing Ulfric by aiding him. Weaving lies such as when they tortured him so that he would turn against the Imperials. Even now they work to aid him in the war front knowing that the longer the fighting goes the more both forces will be bleed out to prevent them from turning their gaze upon the hated elves for future generations. I can see the Imperials rising up and getting a long overdue revenge against the aldmeri dominion. I can not see a Nordic rise of a united Skyrim being able to get revenge against the aldmeri dominion. 5) The sad truth. I see Ulfric as a good man who the world did wrong. Someone who should have gotten a better life. Yet... I do not see Ulfric as a good leader. I see him having good intentions, strong ideals, and WANTING to do what is right for his people... I just don't see him being able to achieve it. He is a man born of passion and lead by passion... but not a man who had a plan on how everything will ultimately be achieved. Though I am curious to see what those who do think the Storm Cloaks should win the war would think of the long term prospects of an Ulfric lead Skyrim. On how it would be any better or different... than an Imperial victory. Yes Talos will be allowed to be openly worshiped and that does matter in this setting... but what else? Having to sit back and wait to recover your forces from a bloody civil war? Having to sort out policies and politics of the nords who have their own ideas and cultures as some willingly sell out their own people for a bit of extra coin and silver? A mountain full of people who can teach people how to utilize the 'Shout' and yet none of the Storm Cloaks or Imperials have ever bothered to learn or use it... and Ulfric did mostly because he was sent there in exile in response to his failure? What is a Storm Cloak victory? Especially when the Dragon born is removed from the picture? Especially when Hermaeus Mora comes to claim the Dragon born or remove the Dragon born from the board? How shall Skyrim fair then with the Storm Cloak victory?

[@takbanan619]

I feel like actually fighting the civil war was a the wrong thing of the empire to do. The ultimate bad guy is the thalmor, and i dont see Ulfric not helping the empire in a war against the thalmor. A win in skyrim for the empire will weaken skyrim as a millitary region for the empire a lot, and it will weaken the empire as a whole, maybe less than just giving skyrim away in a "civil war"

[@anonymousanon6913]

To be fair to the Empire I dont think they really had a choice in the matter. If Ulfric has behaved a bit more diplomatically and either convinced Toryyg to declare Skyrim Independent or having spared Torygg and became high King himself and declare independence then I think the Empire would be much less likely to intervene.

[@takbanan619]

@@anonymousanon6913 Thats very true, but as the posistion stands i feel like a small intervetion from the empire would be the tight way as they wouldnt loose as much. But the right choice would be the peaceful choice, and an alliance with the empire against the thalmor.

[@CalebMcGinty]

The empire is biding it's time. It currently can't fight the thalmor, and so thetormcloaks must be destroyed. Letting them riegn free would've invited the dominion, leading to either A) skyrim being destroyed and a week empire or B) the empire fights a war they will lose. No alliance would've helped at this point. Best they can do is secure skyrim, even if it's weaker. Also, by biding time, it allows other allies, skyrim included, more recovery.

[@anonymousanon6913]

@@CalebMcGinty This all assumes the Empire is actually concerned with going to war with the Thalmor and has doing so as a priority, which I dont see any proof of.

[@CalebMcGinty]

@@anonymousanon6913 there is. They've sent troops to the border with the aldmerie, and tullius mentions peace not lasting between the empire and the dominion after an imperial victory at windhelm. Also, they don't plan on starting it, the dominion will.

[@AgentSqueaky]

In my opinion I can see the Empire signing a peace treaty with Ulfric especially if Titus's replacement is more por Talos and anti Dominion.

[@badluck5647]

Doubtful. Ulfric seems unwilling to fight to defend the Empire or the Imperials wouldn't trust him.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

Honestly in order for anything like you mentioned were to come to light then the Mede dynasty needs to die. They have proven far too corrupt and so if a new dynasty rose up and actually had a backbone but thats likely to never happen. Its hard to grow a backbone when you're in a land governed by weak leaders

[@connivingkhajiit]

I think it might be possible. Ultimately priority isn't really against the thalmor solely, it's for independent skyrim. If the empire, and as such the thalmor, are rid from Skyrim I could see his concerns against the empire ending at that extent.

[@TheLastKentuckyIrregular9524]

​@@badluck5647 More likely the Thalmor would attempt to attack Skyrim. The only way to invade for them is through Cyrodiil. They try to invade, the Empire betrays them, the Thalmor army is destroyed, and the Stormcloaks and Empire make peace. Pretty easy narrative.

[@badluck5647]

@@TheLastKentuckyIrregular9524 You know Skyrim has a coast?

[@noodles24601]

One thing I don't see discussed a bunch which was kinda indirectly talked about here is that its very possible to be pro-independence without liking Ulfric. Personally I do pretty solidly prefer the Empire, but the Stormcloak side is full of people like Jarls Dengeir or Laila who have their misgivings about Ulfric personally but ultimately decide independence is worth empowering him. He definitely dominates the discussion, and understandably so, but in the end he isn't immortal or particularly young. Is that much consolation to the dunmer and argonians of Windhelm? No not particularly, but it is a part of looking at the conflict holistically. Another interesting idea is looking at the rebellion as something along the lines of a mercy killing or escaping a sinking ship. Like the video gets into even after everything that's torn the Empire apart its likely an anti-Thalmor alliance still forms from its pieces. So I could see an argument made that the Empire as it exists now is weaker than the sum of its parts as evidenced by their loss to the Dominion in the Great War and that an alliance of equals in its place wouldn't have the same points of failure that a united Empire would. Its does make sense that the Emperor in the Imperial City would sue for peace when that city was just barely defended. It was in fact, arguably the only acceptable course of action. However we see with the continued war in Hammerfell that just because Cyrodiil wasn't able to continue fighting doesnt mean the other provinces didn't have some gas left in the tank. Through this lens the Stormcloak Rebellion, if won quickly, uses the reprieve of the white-gold concordat to speed up the dissolution of the Empire in order to allow time for the now autonomous realms of men to reorganize and recuperate in a more durable form than they could have under a single emperor. I don't know that I completely agree with that reasoning and have enough grievances with Ulfric and the Stormcloaks at large to oppose them regardless, but I do think it gets treated as a foregone conclusion far too readily that a united Empire is necessarily better suited to fighting the Dominion.

[@shorewall]

I completely agree that a united Empire is weaker than the sum of its parts. Hammerfell drove the AD out and are still independent. That is what sticks in the craw of the Empire. If the Empire couldn't win when they had the belief of Talos uniting them, what will motivate them after 3 decades of heresy? There are children who are born and grown to adulthood with no knowledge of Talos. The Empire only seeks its own continuance, but it has no justification. Because it lost the war, because it signed the WG Concordant, it has abdicated its position as the defender of mankind. Because Hammerfell persists, because Skyrim is willing to fight, they show that the races and realms of men are stronger than the Empire. I'd argue that a nation of Cyrodil would also regain its vigor. The Empire became decadent and complacent. That is why they lost to the Thalmor. The fanaticism of the Thalmor needs to be matched by willing men and hardy. The Empire is similar to the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was considered the Universal Empire, under God and ordained by God. When it fell, it was because it couldn't get its armies to defend it. And in its place came new kingdoms, with vigor, who learned and took from the Roman Empire, but had the will to live and fight.

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@shorewall Hammerfell did not ''drive the AD out'' - it struggled for five years to fight them to a standstill. It is canon that the entire Empire would've fallen without the Concordat. Also, Rome fell because it got fucked on all sides. It was literally located in Anatolia - a crossroads. They had the Catholic Kingdoms who fucked them from the west, and the Turks from the East. That comparison falls flat.

[@eliaspanayi3465]

In my opinion the stormcloaks are objectively in the right from the perspective of the province itself. However as we know the thalmor have been goading ulfric into the rebellion by proxy. The bigger picture is important.

[@xVMouseVx]

I never side with the imperials for the sile fact that they were going to execute me, no questions asked

[@Scoob117]

Still glad yall still put out Skyrim content after all these years been listening to you guys for the past 5 years. 🔥🤙🏽

[@OuhHey]

I don't think Skyrim would be weaker without the Empire Skyrim is borded by insane moutain range and other countries that the Aldmeri Dominion would have to cross first, before enterring Skyrim Skyim in itself is one of the least hospitable land in Tamriel and jts people are warriors and hates elves

[@GamerEnthusiast3188]

It is such a wonderful and gratifying experience to unexpectedly stumble upon a new Fudgemuppet video regarding the lore of Skyrim. Makes me reminisce upon the great times when it were all 3 on the podcast delving into lore. It made me feel like a kid running in front of the television on a Saturday morning to catch the cartoon lineups. Gaming for me is lesser without Scott, Michael and our man Drew giving more insight and alternative viewpoints. 😢 Hoping they'll reunite for ES VI, even if it is moreso as special guest appearances.

[@Serahpin]

3:20 "Torygg had no choice but to accept the duel, otherwise they'd call a moot to vote for a new leader" Was he so insecure of his position that he didn't think he'd be re-elected?

[@badluck5647]

Torygg was traditional and honorable. It was a characteristic that a devious Ulfric used against Torygg to get the High King into a fight where Ulfric brought a gun (Thu'um) to a knife (sword) fight.

[@mirr0rmirr0r]

Probably.

[@nip3004]

I'd argue he was overconfident in his ability to win the duel. Even if he knew he'd be reelected the turmoil the election would cause would not have been good with everything else going on.

[@Capt.Thunder]

If I was an elf, I'd be pissed off with humanity trying to overwrite Auriel's save file with Akatosh. Also, they do seek to end the world, not rule it ultimately, which is unironically a more achievable goal for them.

[@fireblast8972]

This game is over 10 years old and people are still debating the civil war

[@Dragon_Lair]

When ES6 comes out, I fully suspect that the events of the Civil War will play out the same if we are in a new region, and by that I mean that the Empire was weakened due to the constant fighting and the legion is super thin in whatever region we are in.

[@jasonm1691]

Praise Talos

[@mushroomsrcool1449]

Maybe

[@KrešimirPajić]

@@mushroomsrcool1449😅🎉😂😅😢😢😮😢😢😮😅🎉😢😢😢😢😅🎉😅😢😢😂😢😅❤😢😢😢😢😢😢😢🎉😮😂😢😢😢😢😢🎉😮❤😢😂😂❤😮🎉😢😢😢😢😢😢😅😢❤🎉😢🎉😮😢😅😂😂😢😢😮😢😢😅🎉😢😢😢😢😢😅🎉😢🎉😢😢😢😢😢 1:02:33 😂😮😅😢😢😢🎉❤😢😢😢😢😮🎉😢😮😂😅😂😢😮😅😂😢😅😮🎉😢😢😂❤😮😢😢😅❤😅❤😮😂😅🎉😮🎉😢🎉😂❤❤❤😮🎉😢❤😢😢😢😢😅😢🎉😢😢😅😢😂❤😮❤😢😢😢😅❤😢😂❤😢

[@KrešimirPajić]

@@mushroomsrcool1449

[@victorsanz9386]

I really like this kind of long videos. Very good job!!

[@alexanderhenderson2594]

I know it's not really brought up but I like to think that the whole Civil War is actually because the Mede Dynasty is actually smart & the White Gold Concordat is a power play. The Medes wanted to purge the blades because they are not Dragonborn so the Blades are not innately loyal to them & they could be replaced with people who are in the Penitus Oculatus. And removing Talos Worship was also a move to try and move the Empire past the Dragonborn, removing the hero king is a power play to (potentially) replace him with a hero king of the Mede bloodline. Even letting the Thalmor roam the Empire could've perhaps been to try and bolster support against them for the coming war. Now practically, none of this is true, the Mede's are so unfleshed out that we only know 3 of their names despite having sat on the Ruby Throne for over a century at this point, there is zero mention anywhere that they are smart or that the White Gold Concordat was in any way a political move & letting your enemy's spies roam your land is a HUGELY terrible idea, sadly despite the civil war being the most compelling story in Skyrim it is left not even half written & totally underdeveloped. There is also a very interesting dynamic that the game just barely touches on, that being an old feud between the houses of Balgruff & Stormcloak which is why Balgruff sides with the Empire.

[@selwrynn6702]

Yeah, it'd be really neat if they went deeper into the Civil War and the reasons for the concordat, there really were so many missed opportunities, really in the entirety of Skyrim but specifically surrounding the civil war.

[@SorcererKing94]

Ngl bro, that's a solid theory. By accepting the WGC, they remove the Blades(servants of the Dragonborn) and ban Talos(Dragonborn) worship thereby legitimising their own Mede(non-Dragonborn) rule.

[@himynameisrev]

I don't know about Mede wanting to purge the blades, but I know he's not dead. They could have named the person who hired you to assassinate Mede anything at all. The writers are good at making up names. But no, they recycled Motierre. And we did a job for his ancestor in oblivion. And that was to fake an assassination.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

​@@himynameisrev Interesting last bit there...

[@himynameisrev]

@@LoftOfTheUniverse mede wielded Goldbrand at the battle of the red ring. Champions of boethiah don't die at the dinner table. This would be akin to ambushing Miraak while he's pinching a loaf

[@pwesiti]

I love that you can still make content of this game this many years later.

[@thejuggl3r442]

In a perfect world The Dragonborn could unite Skyrim with the Empire again. (Stormcloaks included) No more Thalmor regulating religion or holding Skyrim hostage. However, if we HAVE to pick a side then it must be the Stormcloaks.

[@Chordgaille]

Much more likely the LDB doesn't participate to avoid "NOOO I WAS A STORMCLOAK" "NOOOO WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE EMPIRE DOESN'T HAVE A FOOTHOLD IN SKYRIM NOOOO" if you ask me

[@thejuggl3r442]

@@Chordgaille Right, like my original statement about uniting the 2 groups would support also.

[@RealBradMiller]

*Portal opens, a Securitron with a smiley face rolls out* Screw it, we're doing it my way! 😂🖥️

[@jaceybenton]

Im happy you keep this alive bro. Thank you

[@check_karma8549]

I killed torque to prove our ratchet condition, how was the high king supposed to be defender of Skyrim, if he can’t even defend himself” 🥶

[@MyAquilo]

What a fascinating and comprehensive discussion - I think this is the best video on the Skyrim civil war I've seen. I do tend towards the Stormcloaks side, I'll say that upfront. One thing which I don't think that is emphasised enough is whether the surrender at the end of the Great War and signing of the White Gold treaty was even necessary from a military standpoint. I don't think it was. Yes, the Imperial Legions were under half strength, not even counting the legions that were utterly destroyed, that's what the Great War book tells us. Yet, the predominantly Nord legions under General Jonna (there were two other armies under Titus Mede and Decianus), in a mere 5 days, marched south past the Imperial City, then West over the Niben river, fought off Aldmeri counterattacks from Bravil and Skingrad, completes the encirclement of the Imperial city and then stops Lord Narafin's breakout attempts. Less than half the Imperial starting force does that. Titus Mede then recaptured the city, captured Lord Narafin and "the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed." Some people like to cite the Great War book as evidence that the Empire was on it's last legs. I would use the same book and reemphasise *less than half* of the Imperial army, forced a river crossing, blocked Aldmeri reinforcements and blocked Aldmeri breakouts. The main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was Completely. Destroyed. So I postulate that the less than half the army the Empire had at the end of the Battle of the Red Ring was more than enough to hold off the imaginary Aldmeri reinforcements, which weren't already committed to saving their *main army* from *complete destruction* because... they didn't exist. They're elves, not clones, they can't replace their losses quickly. The Real Barenziah tells us that elves have at most 4 children, sometimes decades or centuries apart. No, I think the less than half an Imperial army Titus Mede had left could have driven the Dominion out of Cyrodiil and Hammerfell, and the Redguards and "invalids" from the Imperial legion proved as much in Hammerfell later on. If we're going for a real world analogy, it would be like the Soviets surrendering to the Germans after destroying Paulus' 6th army at Stalingrad. Seriously, why sign such a terrible peace treaty after achieving a crushing if costly victory?

[@dutchpatriot17]

Elves are equally as fertile as Man. Bosmer families even commonly consist of 12 siblings. The Empire would have fallen had the Concordat not been sigjed. This is canon.

[@MyAquilo]

@@dutchpatriot17 Maybe the Bosmer and Khajiit are as fertile as men, but I really don't think Dunmer and Altmer are if The Real Barenziah is anything to go by. Do we even know the force structure of the Third Aldmeri Dominion's armies? For all we know they're 100% Altmer like the Justiciars and Embassy staff as seen in game. It is not canon that the Empire would have fallen after the Battle of the Red Ring; what is canon is Legate Justianus Quintius' interpretations of the situation and Titus Mede II's justifications, which are that people were exhausted of war. But clearly, the Redguards were not willing to accept "peace at almost any price" (half their country), fought on, and won. In fact, what's canon is that the White Gold Concordat itself is what has led to the fall of the Empire, or at least part of it. Look at the terms again, look at how they're calculated to annoy Redguards and Nords in particular. Southern Hammerfell, gone, Talos worship, outlawed. To a Redguard who cares about their country, to a Nord who cares about the God of Man, those terms are unacceptable. To a Cyrod who naturally cares about his own homeland more, and is more attached to Alessia's Eight Divines, those terms might just about be acceptable. The outlawing of the Blades on the face of it is inconsequential, a new security force can be, and was, made in the Penitus Oculatus. It sounds like a good portion of the Blades was destroyed by the Thalmor anyway The White Gold concordat was Cyrodiil sacrificing what's dear to the provinces and next to nothing itself. The demand from the Dominion to allow Justiciars into Skyrim (and I guess other Imperial territory) after the Markarth incident should have been the casus belli for a renewed war - instead the Empire allowed them to go ahead. After that, whenever an Imperial soldier says "the Empire is the only thing keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim" it is a big, fat lie. The opposite is true, the Empire facilitated it. I'll repeat myself, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. Less than half the Imperial army in Cyrodiil forced a river crossing, surrounded the City, fought off relief and breakout attempts in five days! So the less than half an army they were left with could easily have held on, all they have to do is the equivalent of repelling the relief attempts. If the Dominion was strong enough at that point to cause the Empire to fall, as you seem to suggest, they should have been strong enough to stop the total humiliation and defeat of the Red Ring. The fact they couldn't is proof that the Dominion was as exhausted or more than the Empire claimed itself to be. For further proof of how weak the Dominion was, the Redguards, alone, fought them to a standstill and compelled them to withdraw. The Empire, in its entirety, should have fought on until the Dominion accepted the status quo ante bellum.

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@MyAquilo The Real Barenziah isn't anything to go by, that is the point. Elven fertility is the same (or even superior) to that of Man. Their lower populations are a result of society, not fertility. The Elves wouldn't have been able to colonize Tamriel if their populations did not allow it. It is canon that the Empire would have fallen - explicitly stated as such in a loading screen. Which, unlike NPCs or authors in-universe, is no subject to the Unreliable Narrator. Hammerfell was spared by the Dominion. You talk about Talos as if he means more to Skyrim than he does Cyrodiil. This shows just complete disregard for the lore, as it was Cyrodiil that started the worship of Talos, which proceeded to venerate him for over 350 years longer than Skyrim, and it was Cyrodiil that renamed a district of the capital in his honor and placed him central over their chief deity Akatosh. The Empire did not have the means to go to war after the Markarth Incident. They were barely out of the previous war - which they would have lost without said Concordat. They had no choice but to allow the Justiciars in as to avoid total annihilation. For some reason you hold to this narrative that Naarifin's army in Cyrodiil was the only army they held. It was not. There is also the fact that Titus Mede had informed the Thalmor that he was making plans for peace BEFORE the Battle of the Red Ring. Naarifin was caught off-guard by the attack, as was the rest of the Dominion, but that does not mean that the Dominion did not have the means to keep the war going.

[@MyAquilo]

@@dutchpatriot17 If the Dominion was so strong, why didn’t they just refuse to make peace and retake the Imperial City themselves and get further concessions? Why weren’t they able to subjugate Hammerfell when they were uninterrupted for a further 5 years? Why would they bother with the charade of waiting for a Second Great War and not just crush all of Tamriel? If we take the loading screens as factual, that’s just bad writing. The out of universe loading screen is contradicted by the in universe events. Tolkien for example actually had good explanations for why Gondor and Rohan were still doomed after their victory in the Pelennor fields, Sauron had been prompted to strike too early before the majority of his forces were assembled. Aragorn and co. were still man enough to refuse all terms from Sauron, and pinned their hopes of victory (not for themselves personally mind) on two small hobbits. Lord Narafin and the Aldmeri more broadly got BTFO at the end of 4 years of war, which they started at a time of their choosing, it’s a stretch to imagine their reserves weren’t already in theatre (maybe they were the counterattacks from Bravil and Skingrad, which failed). If the Aldmeri had other reserves, where were they and why weren’t they committed? Either the Aldmeri are dumb, or there were no reserves. The Aldmeri had 5 more years to cure themselves of their stupidity and move reserves to Hammerfell and subjugate it, the fact that they failed proves either they stayed dumb, or there were no reserves. Sorry Titus Mede II, your White Gold Concordat is worse than a surrender, the Aldmeri Dominion are mortal enemies and explicitly want to try again and subjugate all mankind. You shouldn’t give them anything, ever, 2 of your 4 provinces and your veterans would rather fight to the death than accept those terms. Also, sorry, Todd Howard, but your world/ game building is too shoddy and contradictory for me to accept that the Empire was doomed if they fought on, no matter what the loading screens say.

[@crandleberrysadie]

A lore video indeed. Thanks Scott! Hope you're well.

[@mildlyfrostedbegels]

This video truly shows how the Civil War storyline could've been amazing. They had all the building blocks already there. When you listen to all the conversations between the military leaders after each quest, it shows great attention to detail and potential for conflict. All the characters were well developed, they had already worked on sieges, camps, politics, etc... Only thing is, the actual gameplay was trash, just go from one fort to the next, on and on. But it could've been so much better. Just look at the quest in High Hrothgar and the infiltration of the Thalmor Embassy. Those main story line quests show how great the Civil War could've been if given the same level of attention, resources and care. It's just a shame.

[@BP-dn9nv]

I vote for making Balgruuf king. He's a stronger leader than Elisif, not as extreme as Ulfric, understands the necessity of siding with the Empire, doesn't trust the Thalmor, and values Nord tradition.

[@t.coppin6536]

Then let us summom the moot and vote

[@B4rs4rkir]

He certainly bent over and spread em for the Thalmor. Especially since there was a lot of Gold being given to him

[@SwooshJush83]

JARL BALLIN

[@InhabitantOfOddworld]

He cucked under pressure and went Imperial. If he was strong, he'd have picked a position sooner and stuck with it.

[@Brunozamp]

​@B4rs4rkir Heimskr openly worships Talos in whiterun plaza, he most likely would have been arrested in other imperial aligned holds, that alone makes me think that Balgruuf isn't that collaborative with the thalmor given his lack of action against Talos worshippers

[@camn8502]

I grew up watching these kinds of videos gives me a reason to hop on Skyrim sometimes