Skyrim's Civil War is more complicated than you think...

[@ParadigmShiftInc]

At this point, all I want in ES6, is 3 NCP's named Scott, Michea,l and Drew, who sit in a Tavern all day and debate Tameielic history. you guys, as well as other KZbinr, like Camelworks, MXR, and Imperial Knowledge have helped kept the fanbase alive for years, and I think it's only right that Bethesda honors you guys with at least a shoutout in the next game.

[@soldiergigas14]

Patience is a great virtue friend. I have been distracting myself with Pokémon, God of War, Elden Ring and recently, Black Myth Wukong. 👍❤️

[@leannemedhurst9662]

They should be the new bards college

[@slixkkdemon17]

fuck a shoutout, they need to be given JOBS in the creative team.

[@unclespeedwagon1302]

Watch the fan animation "THLMR 4 - Tavern" by AllinAll, you get basically exactly that, even if it its is technically noncanon

[@moskaumaster1594]

I doubt Bethesda would want to bring much attention to MXR

[@cap_junn6397]

The issue ive always had with skyrims civil war is how despite its narrative implications, it never felt like it was actually happening

[@GarlicPudding]

Check out the Open Civil War and Warzones mods. They add a lot of spawnpoints for Stormcloaks and Imperials to fight each other. Plus a ton of other faction skirmishes (Forsworn, rogue mages, etc)

[@grilledleeks6514]

Yeah mods fix this on pc

[@Grandmaster_Dragonborn]

As far as skirmishes in the world? I think that’s 2011 gameplay limitations, not an actual fault on the game. Otherwise, you do get the feeling through in-game dialogue from characters of all kinds, it’s interesting how whether it’s a blacksmith, war general or the leaders themselves, you can talk to them and hear their perspective, it makes it feel like a real conflict with real people.

[@lexaray5]

Huh, really? I have the exact opposite impression. NPCs talk about the civil war as well as how it's impacting them and Skyrim as a whole nonstop. The first decision you have to make in the game is who to go with through Helgen Keep. The biggest visual consequence of the game is the permanent damage caused to Whiterun. It felt like it was far more central to the world and even the game story than the actual main quest.

[@Nathan-zw7nq]

@@GarlicPuddingyeah I have some kind of skirmish so that is very common to see in the distance a group of 30 or so imperials and stormcloaks having at each other. Usually what happens is only a 2-4 survive and go their own way. That’s how Bethesda should have handled it

[@KyleDGrizzly]

I feel like we need A Skyrim Modlist from Fudge Muppet because this whole video is gorgeous and I love curtain details like Irelith wearing Dunmerian armor.

[@somberflight]

I love the armours in this video. We need the mods

[@KyleDGrizzly]

@@somberflight A lot of the armors are NordWarUA mods but the armor general tullius uses is Titus Mede I armor which gives you the option to have it be general tullius’ armor when you install it. I’ve been researching. 😅

[@somberflight]

​@@KyleDGrizzlythanks. They seem decently realistic, apart from a couple

[@urbonx]

I love fudge visuals.

[@The.Usurper]

Certain*

[@anthonyolavarria1653]

Ulfric is being heavily influenced by Galmar Stone-Fist, I believe he convinced Ulfric to kill Torygg. The first time you enter palace of the kings Ulfric is hesitant on what to do with Whiterun and Balgruuf and ultimately decides to try a more diplomatic approach but Galmar is insisting violence right of the bat and encourages Ulfric to kill him. The way Ulfric is acting here isn't like someone that would kill a king when he had other options. Most of their interactions Galmar's first impulse is to fight and gets exited before civil battles while Ulfric comes off as he doesn't seem to actually want to fight until he feels it's necessary. It looks like Galmar is a warmonger that usually gets his way. In the end they are Ulfric's choices but I believe Galmar had a huge role to play in starting the war.

[@softreyna]

Oooh, good catch. I've always thought that a sensible Dragonborn could successfully advocate to Ulfric on behalf of non-Nords living in Skyrim after the events of the game, and while I definitely didn't notice this consciously I wonder if it's part of why I get that feeling

[@xineohpinakc264]

I believe that is also why Galmar's brother is shown strutting around drunk yelling at Dark Elves. Across the river Ulfric's father welcomed the Dark Elves with no expectations when they escaped the red mountain. Ulfric's father seemed a like a kinder and more gentle Jarl.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

Galmar is the main reason I'll never do a stormcloak run. Dude is stupid af and wants to kill his own countrymen if they don't join immediately. The thalmor love him because he's a prime target for something like reverse psychology.

[@runningthemeta5570]

Your point makes me question if maybe Galmar could be that Thalmor double agent Michael mentioned.

[@nicwalker882]

@@runningthemeta5570huh…

[@danielbriggz]

GUYS, ITS A LORE VIDEO!!!!!

[@zauvimoo]

The lore Muppet has been missed

[@alexsao1105]

Another lore video before Elder scrolls 6

[@crabbuckets7506]

A rare occurrence.

[@donwald3436]

Orange still bad tho.

[@jmw1500]

Thanks my redguard.

[@MrYotosun]

The craziest thing about this is that people can see and understand all of this deep subtext in a game but are absolutely incapable of doing the same in real life.

[@greenreptile5650]

yeah but Skyrim is actually cool, the real modern world of today sucks.

[@noahjones1192]

@@greenreptile5650 you’d be surprised. Lots of interesting things have happened in history. It’s just not packaged neat and nice like Skyrim is

[@yarus5889]

​@@noahjones1192 For real, just read about any ancient general

[@ATOMIC_V_8]

Because they're separated from it and have access to all of the Info in a convenient format.

[@ATOMIC_V_8]

​@@greenreptile5650 yes exactly, real life politics is boring and depressing

[@rontretta749]

It doesn’t get better than a lore video from the OGs. Honesty bethesda owes so much to you guys, Great video Lads ❤️

[@masterronin776]

THANK YOU for clarifying the definition of "asset" as used in the Thalmor dossier. All these years and that is still the most common misconception I see in these discussions.

[@ThemoonsFullofgoons-qn9xl]

Imperials somehow get brainwashing and sleeper agent from uncooperative asset they always do this goes to show they can’t read dossiers or they think lying strengthens their cause 😂

[@stephenjenkins7971]

I agree with that. But the "made contact" bit is sus af

[@ThemoonsFullofgoons-qn9xl]

@@stephenjenkins7971 well it can be interpreted in many ways

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@ThemoonsFullofgoons-qn9xl Only if you're biased.

[@dutchpatriot17]

He didn't clarify it, Ulfric's status as an asset is not just due to him being valuable.

[@garrettlaturski6703]

The debate almost reminded me of Lawful vs Chaotic Alignments in D&D. Lawful Alignments tend to care more about order and structure, where as Chaotic Alignments tend to care more about freedom and self determination. Both have their benefits, and their downsides, and they are considered to be separate from Good vs Evil.

[@PatJWilliams]

This also perfectly describes the mindsets of Steve Rogers & Stark in MCU Civil War

[@TwoMana]

I am truly blessed, I had exhausted your whole channel of Skyrim content and now you have just given me an hours worth of content.

[@Mary_Beth_Reimer]

I play their videos quite often as background noise when I go to bed. I find I pick up on stuff I missed as I'm listening when I wake up.

[@JokinMichel]

​@@Mary_Beth_Reimerglad I'm not the only one 😅

[@joshuajefferson3504]

I like how people still debate the skyrim civil war till this day. 😂😂😂

[@gershwinwest]

And gon debate on it till Talos says something 🤝🏾😂😂

[@joshuajefferson3504]

​@@gershwinwest😂😂

[@chriscormac231]

@@gershwinwest Ulf in morrowind is one of Talos' mortal guises and he agrees that tge empire is due for replacement

[@spider-spectre]

Cause nothing has changed.....the story has literally been stagnant till they make something new that is after in the timeline.

[@SwooshJush83]

Hopefully the new game answers that question

[@Reign_Dropz]

Thank god Fudgemuppet released a hour and a half long elder scrolls video. Now I can finally sleep by the nine is been months

[@dextersynesterformerlysorb5334]

Hearing you say "asset does NOT mean someone affiliated with the group" has just set to bed the demons raging in my head for the past 13 years at people who don't understand how intrigue works. people actually thought the big racist man worked with the thalmor with no other context clues but a bad definition of the word asset. thank you.

[@Nockgun]

I see uncooperative, so i see Ulfric is used like a pawn to cause a distraction for the Empire so Thalmor can be Thalmor

[@val9847]

they state that he started being uncooperative which implies cooperation

[@dextersynesterformerlysorb5334]

@@val9847 no, it says he has become uncooperative after first contact, which does not at all infer* previous cooperation.

[@kevinczaractual]

It's hard to avoid modern comparison, but the fact is that Ulfric acts in the better interests of the Thalmor, whether he means to or not. Removing him is bad for the Thalmor. He may not be a traitor, but he is a fool with power, and the cunning villains among the Thalmor can easily turn that into an asset.

[@dextersynesterformerlysorb5334]

@@kevinczaractual from the elves' perspective, he's breaking up the power structure yada yada you know why this is good for them - but really, is it? is it really an advantage for them to have nations independent of resource drain from an empire but united in their hatred of the dominion? i don't think it is. i think the empire is much weaker in it's clinging pretend state, like the byzantines were, than independent but allied former imperial nations, like the crusader states were. removing him ensures the dominion continues to wash over leaderless rebels instead of united enemies. you are, simply, wrong.

[@verymelonman12]

Honestly I agree with you. The Civil War questline may be underwhelming to play, but there's enough meat for players to spend a decade debating on. And that balance of two viable sides to argue for it's worth praising as far as writing goes.

[@BremsOfSlo]

Not really, it's just that Skyrim players are lobotomized troglodytes that don't understand the English language so they read 'asset' and their brains melt to sludge. Beyond that there's no debate to have about the civil war, either side you pick is a good choice because the worst outcome is the war dragging on. If the Empire wins they still have Skyrim as well as its manpower if the Empire loses it doesn't have to garrison Skyrim which frees up their soldiers in the province, that's it. The writing itself is non existent

[@lizrengaming5133]

​@@BremsOfSlorage bait much? I stopped playing Skyrim for about 4 years because of rerelease after rerelease, a lot of players feel the same way, so trying to get a lore dump is fine as long as someone does the research right. Also the reason why I'm calling you out for rage bait is calling people lobotomized isn't a good argument bud.

[@samburkey9962]

that's nonsensical buddy, it's made clear throughout the game that the empire is the canon and correct choice​@@BremsOfSlo

[@Kirasupporter1]

@@samburkey9962 Proof?

[@Kirasupporter1]

@@BremsOfSlo This 100 percent, They read the first few words and think the case is closed conveniently ignoring the part where it says a stormcloak victory is to be avoided and that he is uncooperative

[@butcherpete2286]

I cannot wait for this channel to get a boon of both content and subs when the next elder scrolls game releases in 2069

[@Nexter-Lie]

Honestly, considering it's been five years since the TEASER, maybe your guess for the date is accurate?

[@geoffreymiller9831]

I can never get enough Skyrim content

[@TMatthews98]

A sovereign Skyrim allied with an independent Hammerfell seems very likely, the aftermath of the Great War left both in a similar position and both have a strong warrior culture. The Empire is also gearing up for war. This would force the Dominion to fight multiple fronts, it's possible Valenwood may revolt since it was conquered by the Dominion.

[@Duranous.]

I often wondered if several independent nations would fair better than a crumbling empire in decline. Obviously, Skyrim has many legitimate grievances with how the empire is treating them. The only way I could really see the empire recovering is if it got a new extremely powerful emperor, like the dragonborn. Either way I would think that if an ES6 occurs on the continent of tamriel it should encompass the second great war.

[@bloster_ant]

@@Duranous. Hopefully ES6 doesn’t follow the trend of taking place several several centuries in the future, where all we can do to learn about the aftermath of Skyrim is some books here and there. If it’s NOT mostly about the second Great War, I’m wondering if it’s even worth playing.

[@GunterThePenguinHatesHugs]

I'm terrified for TES6, like I really hope they do the fans justice and take into account all the lore, philosophy and politics? ...But I'm scared that Bethesda will ignore their own rich lore in order to _'Avoid making current-year-applicable political commentary'_ or something weak like that...

[@pfarnsworth84]

​@Duranous. That's essentially what I see as the proper outcome, and why I seriously dislike how dumb and limited the choices are in the civil war quest. The Dragonborn has the demi-god-like power and public influence to single-handedly stop the civil war by assuming control of the Empire, now that Mede II is dead, rebuild the Empire and form an alliance with Hammerfell, Skyrim, and any other province that is sick of the Aldmeri Dominion (at least Valenwood, but the Khajiit and Argonians have gotten the Altmer shaft as well). This combined 'Non Altmer Tamrielic Organization' would be a force to be reckoned with.

[@FrostDreki]

​@pfarnsworth84 The funny part is that, from a lore perspective, the Dragonborn doesn't need an army to fight off the Altmer. He could simply speak their destruction into existence without hesitation 😅.

[@EchoEchoEchoEchoEchoEchoEchoEc]

This video made me realize why Ulfric is so against Elenwen's participation in peace talks in the quest: Season Unending. She's not just the chief of their inquisition squad, she's the person who tortured him in his youth during the great war, and the one who (probably) planted the idea it was his fault that the imperial city had fallen. It's like bringing a still-abusive ex into a therapy session. Tulus has the balls to call out Ulfric about 'good faith' multiple times but then brings that nightmare as an official representative. Also, considering this context, and other events Ulfric views himself as a failure for (not being there for his father's death while stuck in jail/that whole deal in Markarth), I can understand why he feels like 'I fight so that all the fighting that's already been done has not been for nothing'. He speaks both generally about the Nords/Skyrim and himself personally. Dude NEEDS a win, and this may be his last chance.

[@apostleianlovelette]

"It's like bringing a still-abusive ex into a therapy session." This right here. Another analogy is like going to the bathroom for a huge Taco Bell steamer, then trying to shove it right back where it came from. Imperial or Stormcloak, the common denominator is that Elenwen is a Thalmor THOT who has no business in ANY negotiation. Might as well invite a terrorist to a peace conference.

[@IPendragonI]

He doesn't need a win. He needs eternal peace, and I grant him that honour every time.

[@Czah5]

Tullius should have brought Ulfric before the Emperor, instead of Helgen, as was the original terms of surrender. I am beginning to believe that Tullius is the true Thalmor asset.

[@bigdiddyzp1762]

​@@IPendragonIcorny elf simp

[@LAZERAK47V2]

​@@Czah5 All throughout Skyrim, the Empire seems to have a blatant disregard for their own laws and honorable conduct. Heck, they sentence your character to the headsman's axe despite having no evidence against you. And Tullius doesn't even reprimand the captain for going against protocol. The Empire that Talos founded, which was also blessed by Akatosh, died the day Martin Septim sacrificed himself. The current empire is nothing more than a bunch of politicians and warlords scheming and plotting against each other. And an empire that can't protect its provinces is not fit to rule. The White Gold Concordat was an insult to every nation that supported the Empire, as the Imperials immediately surrendered the moment their city was threatened, but are more than willing to throw every other nation into a meat grinder.

[@menialbee]

i feel like at this point even when elder scrolls 6 comes out, well still return back to skyrim

[@Mary_Beth_Reimer]

True, considering I still like to play Oblivion too, lol

[@KaijuSlayer54]

So, you're finally awake.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

Jeremy Soule won't be in ES6 sadly... and bethesda is woke. Skyrim was the last real ES game. Fun while it lasted.

[@connivingkhajiit]

We will just have to wait and see what ES6 holds. I have hope that it will be good, with the amount of time it's taken, but if it isn't I will not be too surprised.

[@GrievousReborn]

​@@LoftOfTheUniverselet me play you a song with the world's smallest violin

[@CatHasOpinions734]

The sticking point I keep coming to with Ulfric is when he chooses to be ideological vs when he chooses to be pragmatic. It would have been no less traditional or honorable to have a conversation with Torygg, but instead he put him and by extension the entire capitol city into a carefully calculated no-win situation that, while in keeping with Nord traditions, is also the sort of political machination more characteristic of Boethia than Talos. He's capable of both pragmatism and idealism, but he seems to pick and choose on the basis of what's more glorious for him, rather than what's best for the ordinary citizens, or even what would make things worse for the Thalmor.

[@itsQuintcy]

Good point. I think it's because of this: For Ulfrick it's essential to boast himself to show that he can be the high king, the true nord. That's why he has to put himself in the spotlight always. He thinks that being the manlies nord is the true way to be a good high king for your people. That's also what I dislike about him. He is the personification of "we only need a strong leader and all will be good"

[@CatHasOpinions734]

@itsQuintcy absolutely. It's frustrating because we know he can be pragmatic, but when we see him choosing between actually making things better for the people of Skyrim (or sometimes specifically Windhelm) or becoming more glorious (or otherwise closer to whatever ideal he has in his head), he'll pick the second option. And to be fair maybe that's because he thinks that if he becomes an ideal king his peoples' problems will just magically be resolved, lots of leaders have fallen for that kind of thinking and it doesn't make them evil. But it DOES make them incorrect and less likely to actually be good for their citizens.

[@itsQuintcy]

@CatHasOpinions734 yes I totally agree on the citizen part. Ulfrick is that kind of guy who creates this glorified personality cult around him. He gathers all the people that have hatred for the talmor, the whole white-gold concordat and all Talos fans. Then he proceeds to buy into this problem around who is the high king at the current moment and tells some ideological fiction about freeing Skyrim by having a true son of Skyrim on the throne. The killing of high king Torygg and this calculated no-win made him the senter piece in what many conservative nords in Skyrim already wanted to believe. Let's say he "frees" Skyrim. Now they are basically at war with the Altmeri Dominion and the Empire.

[@zaydmuminuun]

So Ulfric is… Trump?

[@CatHasOpinions734]

@@zaydmuminuun there are definitely some similarities, but Ulfric gives better speeches.

[@UnswimmingFishYT]

Important notes on random things: Talos actually has a totally reasonable and non-conflicting explanation behind his racial identity. He's thought of as an Imperial, but the Imperial race(s?) of Colovia and Nibenay are known to include ancient Nordic blood. The mention of "men of Kreath" as Ayleid slaves confirms this at the least, along with intermeixing throughout centuries of good relations. Typical Nord and Imperial people are racially so close, even assuming a racist pair of people you'd get intermarrying a lot. He's described as being short and has been called "manmer" suggesting Breton lineage, but we also know for sure that his original name was Hjalti Early-Beard (Ysmir is a title also shared by Wulfharth he later becomes part of the Talos being and also by the Dragonborn in TES V and other unknown characters likely had it). Based on all of this, and the fact that a person can inherit racial traits from a father but is usually the race of the mother overall, one could safely say Hjalti was a Skyrim-born Nordic man with Breton blood possibly related to the ancient Nord invasion of High Rock and the potential of average Imperial blood but in total was a Nord. A Nord with some mixed blood, making it fitting that he became the spirit of human undertaking. Chim-el Adabal is not actually the name of the Amulet of Kings, rather it's the name of the red diamond which holds all its magic. Red because it's magically infused blood from Lorkhan, which absorbed Aetherial power from an Ayleid well and was further enhanced by Akatosh's influence. This does not directly conflict with ebony being Lorkhan's blood because that could be the result of his normal blood 'drying' in a metaphysical sense and when his heart formed Red Mountain it likely spread through incredibly deep underground movements by means of magma flows, explaining the incredible magical power of such magma as seen with the Aetherium Forge. Titus Mede II knew he would be assassinated, and there's evidence he may have partially orchestrated it himself, although not totally confirmed. We also have some confirmation that a replacement emperor immediately sits the throne, because the characters in places still refer to one, and the detail was even put in place that Tullius administering the oath to the Dragonborn slight adjusts his words to reflect the death of Titus. This probably means that his son, a man who would most likely be in his forties, inherited his throne.

[@anyashindler3781]

Wait, we’re going to ignore that Ulfric was ok with child murder? Yeah, sorry that’s why I don’t side with him regardless of his history

[@UnswimmingFishYT]

@@anyashindler3781 He's also quite comfortable with letting Argonians live like abused slaves, letting the Dunmer in his city live in a trash heap that guards barely pay attention to, and is very irrational in thinking Skyrim would stand any chance against the Dominion without help. Considering his forces would have almost no mages if they had any at all, and one talented wizard could burn or electrocute a whole column of Stormcloaks in the right situation, he's clearly a bit crazy on top of the reality of how bad he'd be as a ruler. We already have an example of how bad he is at running one city, so running all of Skyrim he'd make it a bad place.

[@rjfarris8324]

⁠@@UnswimmingFishYTthe Argonians aren’t let into the city for the safety of themselves and the Dunmer. The Dunmer constantly enslaved the Argonians through out all of Tamriels history. Black Marsh invaded Morrowind shortly after the eruption of Red Mountain, slaughtering countless Dunmer. Ulfric is trying to keep the peace as best he can in his city walls. It’s an unfortunate circumstance but it’s something that is best for both of them. Windhelm was also the only city in the province to let in Dunmer refugees after the eruption and continues to welcome Dunmer still immigrating from Morrowind. Again the only city in Skyrim that lends a helping hand to their eastern neighbors. The state of the Grey Quarter can be justified in a multitude of ways. The general state of Windhelm isn’t great. Hell the state of the entire province isn’t great considering Skyrim, and all of Tamriel for that matter, currently exists in a post apocalyptic state. The Oblivion Crisis coupled with The Great War and The Red Year gutted the continent essentially bringing every province to its knees. Skyrim could hold off the Thalmor just fine. Hammerfell held them off by themselves with no outside help, a province with a similar warrior culture like Skyrim. To assume Skyrim wouldn’t ally with the remaining imperial nations is just wrong. High Rock would likely send forces, as well as Cyrodill, and possibly Hammerfell. The Great War isn’t as surface level as the Empire versus the Aldmeri Dominion. It’s a race war, Men versus Mer so it’s very likely the races of Man would unite against the races of Mer even if the empire exists in a fractured state.

[@Brandelwyn]

Dunmer refuse to assimilate and work with other races thats why they're so poor. And argonians not being allowed inside makes perfect sense considering all the inevitable lizard on knifeear violence ​@UnswimmingFishYT

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@anyashindler3781As if the empire hasn’t murdered any children throughout its history lol. Nobody’s hands are clean.

[@ElderVault]

There’s one side of the fight for skyrim left out here: the forsworn. I really think that much like the great war, the forsworn plot line is being saved for the next elder scrolls game, especially if it’s hammerfell and high rock as many people suspect. Maybe it will be a DLC or something where we see that unfurl. Regardless, I would love to see a video like this one that talks about the future of the reach and the forsworn.

[@ganondoofd4281]

GET OUT OF MY WALLS!!! I just started a new survival character on legendary with some civil war mods trying to be a merchantile character to get immersed, JUST hopped off and less the 30 minutes ago you posted this. Bravo amazing timing I'm scared

[@Alexanderofthe9th]

We are all synced. This happens way too much for it to be coincidence anymore imo

[@codyschuppert4984]

I did the same thing last knight

[@piqle]

i just picked the game up again too out of the blue, 3 days ago

[@b0daddie]

If ES6 isn’t about destroying the Thalmor and Aldmeri Dominion, I don’t want it

[@jasperzanovich2504]

So far the assumption is that ES6 will e set in Hammerfell, so we certainly won't directly destroy the Thalmor.

[@yurigoncalves3727]

i think it will be set in a whole different era

[@litrogue6328]

why are you a racist like the stormcloaks?

[@Dev7.62]

I think they will include high rock. I don’t think hammer fell alone would please everyone. Hammer fell is a huge desert and I don’t think fantasy fans would be happy with that . If they included high rock it would please everyone I think. That’s the reason why we haven’t seen a game that includes black marsh or elsewhere.

[@bunnitomoe3866]

​​@@Dev7.62 Nah, we definitely only gonna get the entirety of Hammerfell with some special areas. Everyone thought that Skyrim will be just covered in snow

[@welshmansays14]

Fudgemuppet: Skyrim came out in 2011, it's an "OLD" Game. And I took that personally

[@pyrojack8230]

13 years is pretty old brother. When Skyrim came out, Ocarina of Time was 13 years old and people already called it Retro.

[@vapingfury4460]

Yeah dude your an old fart now

[@Seveinis]

Put around 600 hours into Skyrim in 2011 and played very little with creation club, finally decided to give it another play through now that I’m older and can really conceptualize the story, this video is so so good and really gives me another level of immersion for this play through

[@Dinglesmckringles]

I have ZERO faith that Bethesda will create a well-written Elder Scrolls 6

[@Duranous.]

After starfield I also have no faith.

[@drinnoshika4233]

That's why tabletop roleplaying, Homebrewing, and or stuff like Gurps or D&D 5e rules (or 3.5e)

[@eggbreath9631]

@@Duranous.Todd Howard’s magnum opus lmao

[@Duranous.]

@@eggbreath9631 I had no idea that a totally new Bethesda sci fi could be so boring and uninspired...

[@HowManySmall]

Skyrim itself isn't even that well written,games only got lore and not a good in game story

[@Mikuday]

This is very put of the blue but... I didnt remember how Ulfrics voice sounded... Im so jealous of that VA

[@deveshbhagat2732]

i feel like he doesn't sound like that in the game. not sure, but hadvar definitely sounded fifteenth

[@deveshbhagat2732]

different, not fifteenth

[@Mikuday]

@@deveshbhagat2732 I haven't played in years so I genuinely don't remember

[@Rockstar-bq5fm]

Vladimir Kulich. He has a very recognisable voice. The 13th Warrior was one of my favourite films as a kid and hearing him in Skyrim was a real omg moment lol

[@rhysnichols8608]

I forgot how badass his voice was

[@OuhHey]

I don't think Skyrim would be weaker without the Empire Skyrim is borded by insane moutain range and other countries that the Aldmeri Dominion would have to cross first, before enterring Skyrim Skyim in itself is one of the least hospitable land in Tamriel and jts people are warriors and hates elves

[@apostleianlovelette]

Warriors who care more about their way of life than their coinpurses. Few people are as dangerous as one who doesn't care about getting paid to fight for what he believes in.

[@just_bladeok2041]

I wouldn't say that. While the moutains create a natural stronghold the cold land is an easily nullified aspect due to aldmeri magic and while skyrim has no shortage of willing fighters they lack funding and resources for equipment especially to deal with magic. We also have to remember the majority of stormcloaks are untrained due to being rebels they arent actual warriors and a majority of their funding comes from the aldmeri dominion itself

[@Priceluked]

The Dominion would attack via the sea most likely instead of the Pale Pass.

[@stephenjenkins7971]

​@@apostleianloveletteHistorically. Such peoples were always easy to conquer and annihilate.

[@sercravenmohead3631]

@@just_bladeok2041 Magic isn’t that OP in Elder Scrolls on a 1V1 combatant basis. It’s also somewhat niche is not every caster is proficient in destruction or conjuration, as soldiers Altmer fall short on being physically able to hold frontlines for extended periods of time and wouldn’t be reliable to labor tasks that other armies can, they’d rely on Bosmer and Khajiit auxiliaries to be fodder. None of these do particularly well in melee where as Nords are exceptional warriors on average with a home field advantage. Also more importantly the logistics for a Dominion invasion of Skyrim would be abysmal, they’re on the other side of Tamriel so even coming in by sea would be ridiculous.

[@noodles24601]

One thing I don't see discussed a bunch which was kinda indirectly talked about here is that its very possible to be pro-independence without liking Ulfric. Personally I do pretty solidly prefer the Empire, but the Stormcloak side is full of people like Jarls Dengeir or Laila who have their misgivings about Ulfric personally but ultimately decide independence is worth empowering him. He definitely dominates the discussion, and understandably so, but in the end he isn't immortal or particularly young. Is that much consolation to the dunmer and argonians of Windhelm? No not particularly, but it is a part of looking at the conflict holistically. Another interesting idea is looking at the rebellion as something along the lines of a mercy killing or escaping a sinking ship. Like the video gets into even after everything that's torn the Empire apart its likely an anti-Thalmor alliance still forms from its pieces. So I could see an argument made that the Empire as it exists now is weaker than the sum of its parts as evidenced by their loss to the Dominion in the Great War and that an alliance of equals in its place wouldn't have the same points of failure that a united Empire would. Its does make sense that the Emperor in the Imperial City would sue for peace when that city was just barely defended. It was in fact, arguably the only acceptable course of action. However we see with the continued war in Hammerfell that just because Cyrodiil wasn't able to continue fighting doesnt mean the other provinces didn't have some gas left in the tank. Through this lens the Stormcloak Rebellion, if won quickly, uses the reprieve of the white-gold concordat to speed up the dissolution of the Empire in order to allow time for the now autonomous realms of men to reorganize and recuperate in a more durable form than they could have under a single emperor. I don't know that I completely agree with that reasoning and have enough grievances with Ulfric and the Stormcloaks at large to oppose them regardless, but I do think it gets treated as a foregone conclusion far too readily that a united Empire is necessarily better suited to fighting the Dominion.

[@shorewall]

I completely agree that a united Empire is weaker than the sum of its parts. Hammerfell drove the AD out and are still independent. That is what sticks in the craw of the Empire. If the Empire couldn't win when they had the belief of Talos uniting them, what will motivate them after 3 decades of heresy? There are children who are born and grown to adulthood with no knowledge of Talos. The Empire only seeks its own continuance, but it has no justification. Because it lost the war, because it signed the WG Concordant, it has abdicated its position as the defender of mankind. Because Hammerfell persists, because Skyrim is willing to fight, they show that the races and realms of men are stronger than the Empire. I'd argue that a nation of Cyrodil would also regain its vigor. The Empire became decadent and complacent. That is why they lost to the Thalmor. The fanaticism of the Thalmor needs to be matched by willing men and hardy. The Empire is similar to the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was considered the Universal Empire, under God and ordained by God. When it fell, it was because it couldn't get its armies to defend it. And in its place came new kingdoms, with vigor, who learned and took from the Roman Empire, but had the will to live and fight.

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@shorewall Hammerfell did not ''drive the AD out'' - it struggled for five years to fight them to a standstill. It is canon that the entire Empire would've fallen without the Concordat. Also, Rome fell because it got fucked on all sides. It was literally located in Anatolia - a crossroads. They had the Catholic Kingdoms who fucked them from the west, and the Turks from the East. That comparison falls flat.

[@wolves600]

Ulfrics successor will likely be just like him due to the way the moot works And the stormcloak are framed for the assination of the emperor there is a good chance that destroys any chance of alliance between the two groups

[@georgehouliaras7239]

We are back, sons and daughters of Skyrim.

[@madisonsosa21]

The true sons and daughters of Skyrim

[@InhabitantOfOddworld]

We are SO back

[@ViewtifulBeau]

I am the Eternal Champion

[@3TYKX]

We are the true heirs to the Empire of Talos.

[@TheHK_47]

​@@3TYKX and the rightful rulers of skyrim

[@nickstod5789]

God I forget how much Ulfric practically begs Rikke to go away and leave Tullius. The Civil War could have been so much more nuanced seeing moments like that survive development.

[@donttrip8282]

How good is this game/franchise that you can still make engaging content like this years later and we are still here for it??!

[@WonkyDonkus]

Can't overstate how much I enjoy these long form lore vids.

[@slightlyshabby9226]

I object to the dichotomy of the Stormcloaks as idealists and the Imperials as pragmatists on the grounds that the Empire's prosecution of the Great War turned out to be less than the sum of its parts. I read an excellent (if recreational) breakdown of the war from a U.S. Army War College grad that pointed out the Thalmor took a number of insane strategic risks that only worked out because the Empire had the strategic reaction speed of a dead snail. They also pointed out that the Thalmor were constitutionally incapable of leveraging conquered territory to generate additional combat power due to their insistence on culling the already low elven birth rate with additional eugenics requirements. In short, the Thalmor had poor attritional power and were reliant on thunderstrokes and daring to overwhelm the Empire. The Empire played directly into this strength by being moribund, slow, and incremental in their warfighting. The analysis concluded that Hammerfell and Skyrim were both likely capable of resisting Thalmor occupation on their own due to terrain, culture, and manpower considerations, and that Skyrim in particular, if no longer drained of silver and fighting men to defend Cyrodil's borders, likely could defend itself better on its own than as a resource contributor to the Empire. The analysis also questioned the oft-repeated opinion that the Empire had no choice but to sign the Concordat- the Empire had almost no intelligence on Thalmor force-generation resilience after the battle of the Red Ring, because the Empire had made no discernable or coherent effort to establish what they were up against other than the immediate field armies of the Thalmor on the Tamrielic mainland. Again, given Elven birthrates and the near-complete destruction of two Elven field armies, it is highly likely the Thalmor were actually facing a huge personnel crisis- something borne out by the success of the Hammerfell succession, which the Thalmor should have crushed if they had the reserves the Empire assumed they did when the Concordat was signed. In sum, the Empire prosecuted the war poorly, gave up on just as impulsive a decision as the one to go to war in the first place, then sold out the non-core portions of the Empire out of fear, and finally was embarassed when one of those provinces showed the decisional bankruptcy of those choices by going its own way successfully. This isn't to say there isn't an ethical downside to the Stormcloak position- they are essentially advocating the abandonment of mankind in Cyrodil to the mercies of the Thalmor because they don't consider that part of mankind worth defending. Then again they'd say the men of Cyrodil abandoned them first. That's not a morally good reason to abandon your species to the enemy, but it is an understandable one. But the idea that the Stormcloak rebellion is impractical because Skyrim cannot resist the Thalmor without the Empire is a purely Imperial point of view, and given the failings of that point of view thus far, deserves to at the very least be questioned.

[@Venneroth]

I daresay that's the source of the outrage surrounding the Concordat. The war was, at the time of the signing, a brutal, bloody stalemate. The treaty is more akin to what a victor would demand and a losing (but not crushed) enemy would sign. We are not made aware of any concessions from the Dominion at all. It's only natural that previously committed Imperial supporters would notice the discrepancy and ask why. I doubt there would have been a rebellion if Mede had simply made a counter-proposal and negotiated a more moderate treaty. It would be very in character for the Thalmor to take advantage of the Empire's lack on intel and use a small unit to create a dummy army waiting to cross the border (the same unit being seen marching under different colors, fake requisition order for supplies, large camps with many campfires at night, etc) to make the Empire believe they were ready for Round 2, but again, we're not made aware of them having done any such thing.

[@gabrielinostroza4989]

That's an interesting analysis but it misses the nuances of the war and the setting itself. The Thalmor literally had magic divination of present and future through the orb of Vaermina, they used this to constantly and very methodically delete all of the empire's intelligence and command structure through assassinations and targetted attacks, they virtually didn't have to spend almost resources to get catastrophically lopsided results thanks to it, when you can see the future and have perfect real time intelligence you aren't taking any risk whatsoever.. By the time of the battle of the red ring the Empire is JUST achieving a degree of strategic cogniscence over their enemy and they had thrown everything in a massive gamble to retake the imperial city immediately after. Even by destroying several elven armies, without any intelligence to go by the empire wasn't in a position to risk continuing the war because they had no idea what other gambits the Dominion was holding on to, in the TES universe a single wizard can turn the tide of battle or even fight an entire army by himself if he's strong enough. And the Dominion, a nation of high elves, still had the most powerful mages in the world in store, and was openly collecting and using Daedric artifacts which can range from enhanced weapons to actual WMDs. It's an even bigger gamble than throwing the entire remaining army into one battle to continue a war like that, not to mention force regeneration and time are objectively on the Empire's side. Lastly, the city had spent months occupied, pillaged and having serious war crimes and daedric horrors inflicted on it as was most of the Cyrodil, the citizenry itself was at its breaking point even if the Imperial forces weren't. Skyrim didn't experience those even if it spent a lot of manpower fighting the war. Civilian morale is very important to support a war effort.

[@paloim]

Where are you getting the idea they want to leave Cyrodil to the elves??? That seems like a British man saying the colonists want England to be overun by French """people""". An independent skyrim would probably join Cyrodil in the event of war with the thalmor, afterall they're chomping at the bit to "take the fight to the elves" and that'd be a very easy way to do so

[@butcherpete2286]

Woah...... I've never thought about it from that big of a scope. Very well surmised and please where do I find this research??

[@gabrielinostroza4989]

KZbin didn't like my reply because i used no-no words apparently but i keep getting notifications, so i'll summarize: The Dominion had the orb of Vaermina which gave them present and future divination powers, none of their high risk moves were all that risky, and they deleted all of the empire's intelligence gathering abilities very early on so the empire was flying blind by the time of Red Ring. They won only thanks to the deus ex machina main character of TES: Legends taking the orb away from the Dominion but it wouldn't have given the empire the ability to accurately assess how spent the Dominion was, not to mention the mages and magic users, as well as other daedric artifacts still in their posession were terrific force multipliers that could have readily overcome the Empires' remaining manpower. It was already a huge gamble to commit to the battle of the red ring, continuing the war would have been completely unreasonable for them.

[@unibrowsheepZ]

IMO the empire should just let skyrim seperate and then broker a mutual defence treaty (skyrim, cyrodiil, highrock, and hammerfell). Skyrim will be independent and cyrodill won't lose precious resorces on quelling the rebellions. The thalmor may try to make the empire fall, but if the empire's former territories stand with it against the thalmor anyways, then their scheming wont matter. Hammerfell has shown that the elves can be defeated. The Thalmor are not as strong as they want you to believe

[@georgevirtus]

It does disconnect the empire in two if Skyrim is independent. Humanity might have a lower chance to defeat the Dominion.

[@shorewall]

@@georgevirtus The Empire is not Humanity. When Skyrim leaves, the Empire is basically just Cyrodill.

[@jamesmccloud7535]

High Rock is still part of Cyrodiil and is quite loyal to the empire. Also half of skyrim is still loyal to the empire.

[@georgevirtus]

@@shorewall High Rock is still with the Empire. If Skyrim is gone how will the Empire function as a state if it's split? Anvil is useless due to the Dominion, going through the Topal bay would be considered dangerous due to Red Mountain, the Stormcloaks or the Dominion.

[@JamesTodorovich]

​@@georgevirtusthrough diplomacy with skyrim, skyrim isn't hostile to the empire, their hostile to the thalmor, who the empire serves.

[@CrayonosaurusRex]

I always thought it would've been cool if, regardless of which side you chose, there would've been Thalmor agents showing up to directly interfere with the dragonborn trying to end the civil war

[@dephtons]

I can't believe you guys still do stuff, it's amazing. I've grown so much but you guys a still here, thank you for still making content

[@mildlyfrostedbegels]

This video truly shows how the Civil War storyline could've been amazing. They had all the building blocks already there. When you listen to all the conversations between the military leaders after each quest, it shows great attention to detail and potential for conflict. All the characters were well developed, they had already worked on sieges, camps, politics, etc... Only thing is, the actual gameplay was trash, just go from one fort to the next, on and on. But it could've been so much better. Just look at the quest in High Hrothgar and the infiltration of the Thalmor Embassy. Those main story line quests show how great the Civil War could've been if given the same level of attention, resources and care. It's just a shame.

[@teyanuputorti7927]

Great video thank you for keeping the community alive

[@CosmicFreedoms]

A point about "Empire needs to be whole to resist the Aldmeri". The Redguard are doing just fine.

[@jextra1313]

Holding Hammerfell isn't a necessity for the Aldmeri Dominion, it was just a place to assault the Imperial City's tower from. My opinion is that they saw it as a waste of troops to hold Hammerfell after the the White-Gold Concordat was signed, so they put up little fight and fled, to make the Redguards think they could stand alone without the Empire. Altmer are cunning like that.

[@varlak9061]

​@@jextra1313like the Dominion literally seem like they're trying to divide and conquer so that could be the case, hard to take hammer fell when they're spread out would be easier when they control everything and only have hammer fell to fight

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@jextra1313Actually Hammerfell was the priority of the Aldmeri Dominion during the Great War because they wanted complete control of the Abecean Sea, not Cyrodiil and at the time it was experiencing a civil war between the Crowns and the Forebears. However they united and managed to repel the Thalmor even without imperial support and they still stand to this day. This proves that the Thalmor do not have the resources and manpower necessary to occupy a human province.

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@varlak9061Except divide and conquer doesn’t work when the independent polities are focused on fighting the Thalmor. Neither the Stormcloaks nor the Redguards will allow the Thalmor to occupy Cyrodiil and the Thalmor have been proven to lack the resources and manpower to occupy a human province.

[@frankmessina4470]

@@teyrncousland7152 actually Tullius remarks that the only reason the rebellion hasnt been defeated is because the Empire cant spare a single legion to fight Ulfric because the legions are on the boarder prepared to fight the dominion and if they could Ulfric would fall within 2 weeks. Ulfric backs this up if the emperor is in solitude before the end of the civil war remarking that they cant risk an actual war with the empire. it stands to reason the thalmar are in the same situation and cant risk sending an entire army to take hammerfell because theyre preparing for another war. After all they refer to it as "The First war against the Empire"

[@ravendelacour1917]

The Empire in Skyrim compared to the Empire of the past is the Byzantine Empire to the older Roman Empire. It thinks it's the same Empire, calls itself the same Empire, but it's a fragment of the Empire that will slowly dwindle until it is a cultural remnant of a past age.

[@planetofthegames2843]

I'm reading about Byzantine Empire at the moment. It still was great and prosperous (not as Roman). I recommend to read about Belisarius and emperor Justinian. Byzantine Empire was not weak by any means

[@ethans9379]

Narratively, I think the Stormcloaks probably win, and gain independence for Skyrim, but this leaves the Empire potentially more vulnerable to the Thalmor

[@vonfaustien3957]

​@@ethans9379acurding to the CODA the Thalmor win wipe out the empire and than the Numidium pops back into normal time and wipes Nirn clean well the Dunmer and Khajiit hide out on the moons

[@ravendelacour1917]

@@planetofthegames2843 Since religious history is a hobby of mine and the Byzantine Empire was critical in the development of Christianity, I am familiar with its history. I agree that it wasn't weak, at first, but over centuries it dwindled until instead of a military superpower, it became a religious center and a trade hub for other cultures and eventually irrelevant. It was the biggest piece left after the fracturing of the Roman Empire and it held on for a long time but it was always on a downward spiral.

[@richter6699]

​@@ravendelacour1917 So it did what literally every great nation does. Amazing. The bloody Roman Empire did the same thing

[@Geeler]

Even though Balgruuf would be the most sensible, and he's a good ruler, he's a bit of a fencesitter. The reason why he's not an option is because he might not help anyone in the end, since it's difficult to please both people who want to live in relative peace (at first), under oppression by the Thalmor, and people who want freedom against near impossible odds. Ideally though, now that I think about it, Balgruuf would be excellent in uniting Skyrim and joining the Empire against the Thalmor

[@ThisUserNameWasNotTaken]

Ol' gruffy balls the fencesitting nord

[@slendemanthetraitorcreepyp4519]

Balgruuf wouldn't be a good leader, think of the city itself the walls are crumbling. He goes out to drink a lot and doesn't care enough about his stewards advice on not doing that. He lets bandits roam his hold and giants attack the farmers cows.

[@BP-dn9nv]

I wouldn't call him a fencesitter as much as he didn't like either option. Siding with the empire would mean accepting thalmor interference, which he's strongly against. When it came clear he had to make a choice he goes with the empire but was sure tulius agrees to conditions he sets.

[@JLM-y5g]

"The World's Most Laughable Centrist"

[@TheLastKentuckyIrregular9524]

Idk. His own advisors point out that he was easily bought. And when he loses Whiterun, his main concern is that he will have to pay a ransom for his family.

[@kongilian]

The Gourmet will be missed more than Titus Mede II.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

considering how more useful The Gourmet was than Titus the Incompetent not surprising

[@planetofthegames2843]

you guys clearly don't know anything about Titus Mede II

[@raph3699]

Calm down Amaund Mautierre

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

@@planetofthegames2843 the guy so hated; he participated in stolen valour (claimed he fought at the battle of the Red Ring but was actually the Forgotten Hero) lost Hammerfell, lost half of Skyrim and was assassinated by his own Elder Council. Yeah, dude has a legacy of failure

[@planetofthegames2843]

@@GenericUsername-qp1ww let's say Council did it for the Empire

[@zaydmuminuun]

Played Skyrim through primary (grades 3-6) school and high school (grades 7-12) throughout primary school I was Stormcloak. When I went through High School I did my 2nd ever Nord build thinking I’d be a Stormcloak again (1st Nord, 2nd Redgaurd, 3rd Breton, 4th Khajiit and this being my 5th ever play through) This time around I began to read all the books I’d find making for a truly slower play through, I did this with my Breton but missed a lot. This time around I began to really think about the evidence, most of which you mentioned. I was at a point when I had the jagged crown, and was doing the Thalmor mission, as soon as I read the dossiers I gave the crown to Tullius, effectively changing sides. My Khajiit was imperial for selfish reasons but my Nord was imperial for the reason that he hated the Thalmore and saw an opportunity to join the battle with the Empire, he believes if the Great War were to start again, he’d be able to turn the tide

[@excubitor3440]

Another thing that gets me with Rogvir...he's a guard on gate duty, the duel happened away from the gates (Blue palace if I recall correctly?). So he sees a man running from fellow guards, gets a few seconds to get things explained from Ulfrics PoV, and then opens the gate? No matter the legality of the duel, in that circumstance he is derelict of his duty in a major way.

[@abomination1753]

Well it’s probably the other way around. He didn’t open the gate for ulfric after the duel but before it. And ulfric most likely announced his intention in front of the gate.

[@Billabongbabalog]

"No matter the legality..." This man is a tyrant.

[@biscuitkeyboard]

​@abomination1753 I believe it is actually stated that he opened the gate after the death of the King. Crazy I never even thought about it though,could be a plot hole but guy was about to be decapitated so maybe he was convinced and just believes it was a fair fight because Ulfric said it was.

[@garrick3727]

Rogvir isn't an Imperial soldier, so his alliegence is to the king of Solitude, the High King. If the HK was killed in an honorable duel then Ulfric is the High King Apparent. Assuming Rogvir knows this, then he's not actually betraying anyone except possibly the Empire. If Nord law is that the duel was legal, then Ulfric did no wrong and can leave. If Rogvir prevents him, he's defying nord law. If he was ordered to not let Ulfric leave, then his guilt depends on whether you believe the Nuremberg Defense is invalid, "I was just following orders." In our world, if you know your orders violate the law, you can be held accountable if you choose to follow them. It seems likely the Stormcloaks would have executed Rogvir for this reason had he prevented Ulfric from leaving. From a nord perspective, however you cut it, it appears Rogvir did nothing wrong. His execution was a war crime. However, we don't know what the Empire's rules of occupation are. He could have been executed according to Imperial law. Which means he was damned whatever he chose to do.

[@garmrbanalras2579]

Isn't this simply an issue of conflicts between nord common law, and imperial law?

[@jaimeXDgo]

The civil war was the best written part of Skyrim's story by far. Not a mere power fantasy, or a good vs bad. No matter how you look at it, both sides are right in their own way.

[@JamesTodorovich]

Of course it was a good vs bad. You had the stormcloaks, and you had the sissy empire too weak to rule themselves but brand you traitors for wanting to rule yourself. The empire right now bends over and takes it up the ass from the thalmor, and yet tries to force it's control over others. I'll remind you the empire was winning at the end of the war, the emperor sold the empire out to spare cyrodiil the hardship of war, they even had to bribe local leaders such as jarls in order to keep them from rebelling. Hammerfell already proved the empire could beat the thalmor, they were simple too cowardly to try.

[@mewillson]

By far, this is the best video you put together based on "The Elder Scrolls" lore. I have watched and listened to a lot of your lore and story based videos cover this subject area but this has been so well done. Very coherent, very well thought out, very interesting to learn the various perspectives that most of us never consider while playing the game. It is one reason I love the Rigmor Series by Jim. They are real stories based on interesting characters with lore, and depth and cover a lot of possibilities that could have been based on the lore that has been accepted as canon or close to canon. Thank you for the continuing this as I know it takes a lot of work to put these together. "May you live your life through moments, may those moments help you to discover treasures of true value, may those treasures sustain you in happiness all the days of your life."

[@alyailithyia]

These long videos give me life

[@christianproctor9582]

Its mentioned the empire isnt utilising all its resources to fight the stormcloaks, which means its totally possible the war hardly crippled the empire in the event of a stormcloak victory, and that a possibility of a later team up is still there. How many imperials died, lore accurately in the event of a stormcloak victory do you think?

[@mutegrab666]

Tullius even mentions he was only given half a legion to retake Skyrim. Minus the Battlemages Alduin killed in the beginning of the game.

[@miniman649]

@@mutegrab666 that is basically confirmed in the game. I think it is Legate Rikke who mentions they mostly rely on native Nords to fill their ranks, rather than soldiers from the empire.

[@danielsantiago3273]

If the stormcloak ending is cannon the post game starts with imperial legions marching in to bring order and crushing the fledgling state which probably ignites a new great war

[@JamesTodorovich]

The majority of losses are skyrim citizens, the imperials are losing maybe a 10th or 5th of their forces even if every single imperial soldier dies in skyrim, most of the men there are skyrim citizens raised for stormcloak or imperial cause.

[@JamesTodorovich]

​​​@@danielsantiago3273unlikely, the stormcloaks winning means a united skyrim, the empire would have to use the majority if not all of their legions to beat it, legions don't just magic themselves all the way across the world, if they could than skyrim would be easy to put down. What you see now is local militias, jarl troops, and levies of half of skyrim fighting half of skyrim and a legions or two of imperial troops. With a united skyrim they could raise a full proper army, and the empire would struggle to get through chokepoints to fight skyrim, that is why they can't send reinforcements right now cause of a storm blocking way or something if memory serves. If the empire fights skyrim, it means the death of the empire, they know it, skyrim knows it, the thalmor knows it. The blind and deaf even know it. The empire isn't capable of sparing more than a token force without risking half of the empire being overrun.

[@adamtwamley293]

Great Video I look back fondly at a time when Bethesda was capable of complex and thought provoking story telling

[@nonamegiven202]

Honestly I'm about 80% sure TEV VI is going to be us reforming the Daggerfall Covenant, circular stories and all, so for that alone my money is on the stormcloaks winning the civil war.

[@ReplicatorFifth]

I’d rather slit my wrists vertically than play another DC storyline.

[@MyAquilo]

What a fascinating and comprehensive discussion - I think this is the best video on the Skyrim civil war I've seen. I do tend towards the Stormcloaks side, I'll say that upfront. One thing which I don't think that is emphasised enough is whether the surrender at the end of the Great War and signing of the White Gold treaty was even necessary from a military standpoint. I don't think it was. Yes, the Imperial Legions were under half strength, not even counting the legions that were utterly destroyed, that's what the Great War book tells us. Yet, the predominantly Nord legions under General Jonna (there were two other armies under Titus Mede and Decianus), in a mere 5 days, marched south past the Imperial City, then West over the Niben river, fought off Aldmeri counterattacks from Bravil and Skingrad, completes the encirclement of the Imperial city and then stops Lord Narafin's breakout attempts. Less than half the Imperial starting force does that. Titus Mede then recaptured the city, captured Lord Narafin and "the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed." Some people like to cite the Great War book as evidence that the Empire was on it's last legs. I would use the same book and reemphasise *less than half* of the Imperial army, forced a river crossing, blocked Aldmeri reinforcements and blocked Aldmeri breakouts. The main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was Completely. Destroyed. So I postulate that the less than half the army the Empire had at the end of the Battle of the Red Ring was more than enough to hold off the imaginary Aldmeri reinforcements, which weren't already committed to saving their *main army* from *complete destruction* because... they didn't exist. They're elves, not clones, they can't replace their losses quickly. The Real Barenziah tells us that elves have at most 4 children, sometimes decades or centuries apart. No, I think the less than half an Imperial army Titus Mede had left could have driven the Dominion out of Cyrodiil and Hammerfell, and the Redguards and "invalids" from the Imperial legion proved as much in Hammerfell later on. If we're going for a real world analogy, it would be like the Soviets surrendering to the Germans after destroying Paulus' 6th army at Stalingrad. Seriously, why sign such a terrible peace treaty after achieving a crushing if costly victory?

[@dutchpatriot17]

Elves are equally as fertile as Man. Bosmer families even commonly consist of 12 siblings. The Empire would have fallen had the Concordat not been sigjed. This is canon.

[@MyAquilo]

@@dutchpatriot17 Maybe the Bosmer and Khajiit are as fertile as men, but I really don't think Dunmer and Altmer are if The Real Barenziah is anything to go by. Do we even know the force structure of the Third Aldmeri Dominion's armies? For all we know they're 100% Altmer like the Justiciars and Embassy staff as seen in game. It is not canon that the Empire would have fallen after the Battle of the Red Ring; what is canon is Legate Justianus Quintius' interpretations of the situation and Titus Mede II's justifications, which are that people were exhausted of war. But clearly, the Redguards were not willing to accept "peace at almost any price" (half their country), fought on, and won. In fact, what's canon is that the White Gold Concordat itself is what has led to the fall of the Empire, or at least part of it. Look at the terms again, look at how they're calculated to annoy Redguards and Nords in particular. Southern Hammerfell, gone, Talos worship, outlawed. To a Redguard who cares about their country, to a Nord who cares about the God of Man, those terms are unacceptable. To a Cyrod who naturally cares about his own homeland more, and is more attached to Alessia's Eight Divines, those terms might just about be acceptable. The outlawing of the Blades on the face of it is inconsequential, a new security force can be, and was, made in the Penitus Oculatus. It sounds like a good portion of the Blades was destroyed by the Thalmor anyway The White Gold concordat was Cyrodiil sacrificing what's dear to the provinces and next to nothing itself. The demand from the Dominion to allow Justiciars into Skyrim (and I guess other Imperial territory) after the Markarth incident should have been the casus belli for a renewed war - instead the Empire allowed them to go ahead. After that, whenever an Imperial soldier says "the Empire is the only thing keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim" it is a big, fat lie. The opposite is true, the Empire facilitated it. I'll repeat myself, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. Less than half the Imperial army in Cyrodiil forced a river crossing, surrounded the City, fought off relief and breakout attempts in five days! So the less than half an army they were left with could easily have held on, all they have to do is the equivalent of repelling the relief attempts. If the Dominion was strong enough at that point to cause the Empire to fall, as you seem to suggest, they should have been strong enough to stop the total humiliation and defeat of the Red Ring. The fact they couldn't is proof that the Dominion was as exhausted or more than the Empire claimed itself to be. For further proof of how weak the Dominion was, the Redguards, alone, fought them to a standstill and compelled them to withdraw. The Empire, in its entirety, should have fought on until the Dominion accepted the status quo ante bellum.

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@MyAquilo The Real Barenziah isn't anything to go by, that is the point. Elven fertility is the same (or even superior) to that of Man. Their lower populations are a result of society, not fertility. The Elves wouldn't have been able to colonize Tamriel if their populations did not allow it. It is canon that the Empire would have fallen - explicitly stated as such in a loading screen. Which, unlike NPCs or authors in-universe, is no subject to the Unreliable Narrator. Hammerfell was spared by the Dominion. You talk about Talos as if he means more to Skyrim than he does Cyrodiil. This shows just complete disregard for the lore, as it was Cyrodiil that started the worship of Talos, which proceeded to venerate him for over 350 years longer than Skyrim, and it was Cyrodiil that renamed a district of the capital in his honor and placed him central over their chief deity Akatosh. The Empire did not have the means to go to war after the Markarth Incident. They were barely out of the previous war - which they would have lost without said Concordat. They had no choice but to allow the Justiciars in as to avoid total annihilation. For some reason you hold to this narrative that Naarifin's army in Cyrodiil was the only army they held. It was not. There is also the fact that Titus Mede had informed the Thalmor that he was making plans for peace BEFORE the Battle of the Red Ring. Naarifin was caught off-guard by the attack, as was the rest of the Dominion, but that does not mean that the Dominion did not have the means to keep the war going.

[@MyAquilo]

@@dutchpatriot17 If the Dominion was so strong, why didn’t they just refuse to make peace and retake the Imperial City themselves and get further concessions? Why weren’t they able to subjugate Hammerfell when they were uninterrupted for a further 5 years? Why would they bother with the charade of waiting for a Second Great War and not just crush all of Tamriel? If we take the loading screens as factual, that’s just bad writing. The out of universe loading screen is contradicted by the in universe events. Tolkien for example actually had good explanations for why Gondor and Rohan were still doomed after their victory in the Pelennor fields, Sauron had been prompted to strike too early before the majority of his forces were assembled. Aragorn and co. were still man enough to refuse all terms from Sauron, and pinned their hopes of victory (not for themselves personally mind) on two small hobbits. Lord Narafin and the Aldmeri more broadly got BTFO at the end of 4 years of war, which they started at a time of their choosing, it’s a stretch to imagine their reserves weren’t already in theatre (maybe they were the counterattacks from Bravil and Skingrad, which failed). If the Aldmeri had other reserves, where were they and why weren’t they committed? Either the Aldmeri are dumb, or there were no reserves. The Aldmeri had 5 more years to cure themselves of their stupidity and move reserves to Hammerfell and subjugate it, the fact that they failed proves either they stayed dumb, or there were no reserves. Sorry Titus Mede II, your White Gold Concordat is worse than a surrender, the Aldmeri Dominion are mortal enemies and explicitly want to try again and subjugate all mankind. You shouldn’t give them anything, ever, 2 of your 4 provinces and your veterans would rather fight to the death than accept those terms. Also, sorry, Todd Howard, but your world/ game building is too shoddy and contradictory for me to accept that the Empire was doomed if they fought on, no matter what the loading screens say.

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@MyAquilo Why? Because the Thalmor are elven supremacists, who show their supremacy by weakening Mankind without even having to fight it themselves. Who show their supremacy by letting the world see that even in the face of a greater threat, the races of Man squabble and fight amongst themselves. The same thing happened in Hammerfell - no longer seeking to conquer it, the Aldmeri just weakened the province economically and militarily before leaving a devastated southern Hammerfel lfor the Redguards to rebuild.

[@pwesiti]

I love that you can still make content of this game this many years later.

[@georgelove980]

I hope Skyrim and Hammerfell make a pact called the Sandy Snow Concordant

[@andynorth1776]

How awesome would it be for the Redguards and Nords to join forces, even picking up the Dunmer (who hate the Altmer also), and begin a massive conquest to push those filthy Thalmor back to their little island in the South.

[@james739123]

@@andynorth1776 this is one of the favourite potential stories I wanted told, with the Empire gone, Hammerfell reaches out to negotiate an alliance with Skyrim, and because of what the Dragonborn dose for the people of Solstheim, House Redoran and surprisingly House Telvanni are willing to throw their lot in to crate a new pact against the Dominion, Helgen can be re-taken and rebuilt as a trade hub since Helgen is between Falkreath and the Rift which are the closest to Hammerfell and Morrowind respectively, the borders between the provinces are open so we can advancer to places like Blacklight were you can stop a group of Argonian priest under the control of the An-Xileel harassing shipping routs and maybe broker a peace between them and have Black-March join this new alliance, or to Elinhir were you help the Crowns and the Forebears settle their differences once and for all so they can finally dive the Thalmor from Hammerfell.

[@prozoomy]

​@@andynorth1776if they did . Id hope they can get along. Because nords and red guards are like oil and water at times.

[@ReplicatorFifth]

\m/

[@wiecek13]

This is why Skyrim works and Starfield doesn't. There are deeper things to analyze when breaking down the conflict between the core factions. In Starfield there is no conflict between the core factions.

[@badluck5647]

Starfield feels empty.

[@TheNorthHawk]

I clicked on this video to let it run in the background and hear what you had to say, because it sounds really interesting as a premise. I was unfamiliar with your channel and hadn't been paying full attention clicking the thumbnail. When you said "we here at fudgemuppet" I choked on my drink, caught completely off guard. Well played. What a channel name.

[@jorgedeanoperez2997]

God, this video was so utterly perfect. I cannot thank you enough for making it. You have voiced the thoughts that I have been voicing for 13 years with varying degrees of success in the quest of getting it through to my audience. There isn't a right or wrong side on this conflict, there's tons of reasons to support one and fight the other, and ultimately it's a matter of where your heart lies. I belong to a historically oppressed nation, culturally different from its hegemon, its identity eroded and replaced by that of our sovereigns. The call to defend Skyrim's freedom and identity from those that would see both stripped away for practicality resonated with me from the moment I saw the trailer and realized Skyrim was fighting a war for independence. Don't get me wrong, I love the Septims and their Empire, but when I played Oblivion all I could think of was of my first Hero of Kvatch, a Nord, returning home to stir a rebellion against imperial rule now that the last Dragonborn Emperor was gone. Skyrim was a dream made true when it came out and I could actually fight for Skyrim's freedom, and so many people are all too eager to call you a bigot for this choice (I'm disabled and bisexual, but being white is enough to being dumped in the same sack as them n4zis). From now on, instead of a tired rant on why I make my choice and why it is a legitimate one, I will refer them to this video. Thank you for making it ❤ Also, a point I rarely see brought up is the fact the Empire could barely survive the Dominion and lost a war to them with four provinces fully pacified, with their manpower intact and no civil unrest. Now people expect the Empire to be able to beat the Dominion if they defeat the rebels, as if they didn't have one full fewer province from which to pull resources and manpower, a very debilitated and restless Skyrim and a Cyrodiil that I expect to still be reeling from the Great War, and depleted enough that the Legion had to recruit any local that came asking in Skyrim due to their difficulties to replenish losses. Much as I love the Bretons, I don't see them carrying the war effort on their own, specially not with Thalmor agents and spies everywhere in the Empire predicting every move of the Legions prior to the war declaration. The most reasonable means of defeating the Dominion and the Thalmor would be through a coalition of nations in equal footing and allied for the purpose of their defeat, not through nations bound by bondage to a bruised hegemon keeping half of its only two subjects in chains, grumbling and bloodied after beating it into submission. But that's just me, heh

[@shorewall]

I think letting the Thalmor just walk around spying on everything and getting their agents everywhere is proof that the Empire isn't serious. We know they assassinate people, spread lies and propaganda. They want to encourage the Civil War, so why does the Empire let them move unimpeded, and harden opposition to the WG Concordant?

[@Mary_Beth_Reimer]

Thank you Fudgemuppet! I hope you and your families are doing well. 😊

[@Sludgehammer138]

Man I'm out here just rocking on vanilla skyrim and still having a blast. I think I want to do a survival roleplay with a bunch of immersive mods though after this one

[@crandleberrysadie]

A lore video indeed. Thanks Scott! Hope you're well.

[@StrangestQuark2k]

One thing I don't think I ever saw mentioned before is that Ulfric as a practicioner of the Thu'um is likely to live significantly longer then usual, meaning that even if he is a 50 year old man, he likely has at least another 50 in him before succumbing to old age.

[@gregharper6382]

15:02 as someone who likes to use analogies in day to day conversations I’m glad you did to make that clearer!

[@jesseroberts7273]

Ah finally Skyrim. Fudgemuppet I have missed u.

[@bacd-nn2lg]

"By the Nine, I hate the waiting, the goddamned waiting."

[@ryangonzales7471]

You know Skyrim was an amazing game when it came out 13 years ago and it’s still a thing to talk about

[@EpicPrawn]

34:38 I think Ulfric was probably an only son, and that perhaps being a Greybeard is a higher honor than being a Jarl's heir. With that said I want to devil's advocate that position and say that "his only son" could mean "his only remaining son." While this is unlikely, it's plausible enough that someone could reasonably consider it canon until proven otherwise.

[@shorewall]

It definitely could mean his only son, at the time.

[@Capt-Bloodbeard]

The Skyrim civil war is one of the few times I get so invested in politics I wish it was more than go to a fort and fight enemies.

[@RomusSixgriffe]

A bit late to the party, but amazing work on this video. Both on the actual content and the form of the video !

[@lucaalduino-kq9ww]

Historically the biggest problems for the high elves have been when the races of men stop squabbling and remember who the adversary is

[@gohantanaka]

There is actually some fairly clever political intrigue in Skyrim. The dominion intentionally drove a wedge between Skyrim and the Empire through the banning of Talos worship. And the documents you find in the Aldmeri Embassy saying they’ve secretly supplied the stormcloaks so they can fight the Empire to a standstill is reflective of Real world politics. Where the story fails (from a player POV) is there is no way to bring this to the Empire or Ulfric Stormcloak. Where Ulfric fails… is not talking to the High King. That may have better united Skyrim.

[@matthewmoser1284]

This is my all time favorite take on the Civil War!

[@takbanan619]

I feel like actually fighting the civil war was a the wrong thing of the empire to do. The ultimate bad guy is the thalmor, and i dont see Ulfric not helping the empire in a war against the thalmor. A win in skyrim for the empire will weaken skyrim as a millitary region for the empire a lot, and it will weaken the empire as a whole, maybe less than just giving skyrim away in a "civil war"

[@anonymousanon6913]

To be fair to the Empire I dont think they really had a choice in the matter. If Ulfric has behaved a bit more diplomatically and either convinced Toryyg to declare Skyrim Independent or having spared Torygg and became high King himself and declare independence then I think the Empire would be much less likely to intervene.

[@takbanan619]

@@anonymousanon6913 Thats very true, but as the posistion stands i feel like a small intervetion from the empire would be the tight way as they wouldnt loose as much. But the right choice would be the peaceful choice, and an alliance with the empire against the thalmor.

[@CalebMcGinty]

The empire is biding it's time. It currently can't fight the thalmor, and so thetormcloaks must be destroyed. Letting them riegn free would've invited the dominion, leading to either A) skyrim being destroyed and a week empire or B) the empire fights a war they will lose. No alliance would've helped at this point. Best they can do is secure skyrim, even if it's weaker. Also, by biding time, it allows other allies, skyrim included, more recovery.

[@anonymousanon6913]

@@CalebMcGinty This all assumes the Empire is actually concerned with going to war with the Thalmor and has doing so as a priority, which I dont see any proof of.

[@CalebMcGinty]

@@anonymousanon6913 there is. They've sent troops to the border with the aldmerie, and tullius mentions peace not lasting between the empire and the dominion after an imperial victory at windhelm. Also, they don't plan on starting it, the dominion will.

[@leekent3587]

I remember playing skyrim a good while back , and remember seeing information in the dossier when you go to the thalmor embassy that the thalmor do not want "Either" side to win the civil war so basically they're admitting that if the empire wins it strengthens the empire for round 2 and also if the stormcloaks win it means skyrim will probably launch a pre-emptive strike on the high elves/thalmor and catch them off guard perhaps?. Either way , i doubt in ES6 that the thalmor/high elves would of taken over tamriel again..don't most ES games take place 100 to 200 years after the last one or something like that?.

[@james739123]

ES Arena and Oblivion take place between 35 years of each other with the events of Daggerfall and Morrowind happening between them, Skyrim takes place 201 years after Oblivion.

[@scoliosis9478]

yea Skyrim is the only one with a major time jump like that. The first four all take place during the reign of Uriel Septim

[@JohnDoe-rm3gg]

Great video, Great take at the end. Loved it 👍

[@zonefreakman]

Political leaders like Ulfric don't really exist anymore in the real world, so I think some people might get a shock seeing his bravado or "barbaric" Nordic values on display like challenging Torygg. Ulfric though did prove that the Jarls as well as the Empire became weak, not just in a military sense but in a spiritual and political sense. Leaders like Ulfric can be the most dangerous at times because they might lead a separatist movement that goes on too far, or it leads to some kind of genocide. But that is the possible consequences of weak political leadership. Some people get fed up and want something done. They see an opportunity to do something, the government doesn't want to work with them, so they force themselves into power with rebellion. Usually from a narrative standpoint the rebels in a fictional story are the "good" guys like the Rebel Alliance in Star Wars. It is somewhat more murky with the Stormcloaks in Skyrim, but they have understandable grievances.

[@WillMuny]

When you say Genocide, do you mean abducting, torturing and murdering people because they are of a particular religion?

[@zonefreakman]

@@WillMuny Sure, that classifies as genocide.

[@garmrbanalras2579]

We all know bureaucracy gets a bad rep, with bloating and slowness. Historically, an efficient bureaucracy is a huge advandtage in building a society. No roman roads would have beeen built and no large scale trade happened. Without the efficiency of roman bureaucracy.

[@bigPauliee]

Real

[@marcopico7074]

Amazing lore video, a work of dedication and love to the series, thank you 👏

[@surmankeith]

I tend to prefer playing altmer characters in elder scrolls games. I despise what the thalmor have become, and my characters tend to role play as Altmer royalists who want the thalmor gone and the rightful monarch to return to Alinor.

[@PixelCupFootball]

Your guess that Ulfric is not the eldest child of his father because he was sent to the greybeards seems false since Ulfric himself at some point says he's the only child to the 'Great Bear of Windhelm'. He may be lying, but why would he?

[@tonys9397]

Yeah looks like the writers didn’t really think that one through

[@kaitoudark1]

Yep. That's author bias getting in the way of reliable narration.

[@A-Gaymer]

He might mean he's currently the only child. He could've still had siblings before the great war.

[@tonys9397]

@@A-Gaymer thats a good way to reconcile it

[@zonefreakman]

Did he say only child, or only son?

[@Scoob117]

Still glad yall still put out Skyrim content after all these years been listening to you guys for the past 5 years. 🔥🤙🏽

[@rebornlich]

BABE WAKE UP, NEW FUDGEMUPPET ELDER SCROLLS CONTENT JUST DROPPED!

[@check_karma8549]

2:03 Getting hit with that chain lightning looked like hell.

[@GamerEnthusiast3188]

It is such a wonderful and gratifying experience to unexpectedly stumble upon a new Fudgemuppet video regarding the lore of Skyrim. Makes me reminisce upon the great times when it were all 3 on the podcast delving into lore. It made me feel like a kid running in front of the television on a Saturday morning to catch the cartoon lineups. Gaming for me is lesser without Scott, Michael and our man Drew giving more insight and alternative viewpoints. 😢 Hoping they'll reunite for ES VI, even if it is moreso as special guest appearances.

[@Venom.mems0]

Finaly some one IS reviving this great game ❤🎉😢

[@planetofthegames2843]

as if it was dead

[@kenxinhxc1635]

Lol the modding community is active as fuck plus a lot of players still playing this game you can see that real time on steam

[@Venom.mems0]

@@kenxinhxc1635 nice

[@fireblast8972]

This game is over 10 years old and people are still debating the civil war

[@jaceybenton]

Im happy you keep this alive bro. Thank you

[@qwefg3]

Skyrim was interesting, but I doubt we will get another one like it. For me... I lean towards imperials for 4 central points. 1) Sustainability, 2) politics, 3) power , 4) revenge. 1) Sustainability... The conflict lives and dies on Ulfric shoulders for the most part. I know that sounds harsh, but if he wins the war how effective will by any of his successors? Even then his faction is mostly focused on the Nords. not for the people who have lived in Skyrim for generations as there is no cultural ties to Skyrim. Only blood ties. The imperials are suffering, but there is more of a focus on nationality rather than blood. Even then if their emperor dies they can swap him out. If their leaders die they can find replacements. If their soldier die they can make new supply chains to send more soldiers. 2) politics. Imperials sucks, but I stand with more of their choices over the Storm Cloaks. Yes I think it is bad that the imperials gave up their official worship of one of the best gods in a universe where the divine can literally lend a hand to aid (or doom) an entire nation... but I say worship him in secret and stab any pointy ear jerk with a sharp knife and blame their deaths on the local threats. They already have a group of tribals murdering officials in a Nord city. SO just blame them. The imperials can call upon everyone within their borders to help fight for them. The Storm Cloaks have no desire to ally themselves to those who are not nords. Even their center of power has major issues with the dark elves and the argonian population. Mostly I can see the Imperials recovering, but I can't see the Storm Cloaks getting further than being a more isolationist faction that tends to itself as it keeps kicking people off their lands. 3) Power. Imperials had won the war until dragons got involved. Imperials were winning the war so the aldmeri dominion went to aid Ulfric to ensure he hurt the imperials more. The fact than an undead witch trying to revive herself back from the grave might have a stronger claim to the throne than Ulfric did... also kind of hurts. 4) Revenge. Imperials lost. Elves take a while to fix their population numbers and losses. Throw in a generation or two in waiting and the imperials might be ready for round two. I mean even their emperor didn't mind if he died so long as you turned that blade on the person who made the hit. To smile at your (hired) killer and laugh as you try to convince them to murder the person behind it... I give the imperials props for that. Storm Cloaks... the term 'useful idiots' comes to mind. Ulfric won by using the 'shout' and then stabbed foe defeated by it. I could claim I killed someone with a sword right after blowing their legs out with a shotgun, but nobody would call me an expert fighter. Made worse by the fact that Ulfric was older, stronger, more experience with a blade and should have easily been able to murder the High King by blade alone... but he didn't. The elves keep playing Ulfric by aiding him. Weaving lies such as when they tortured him so that he would turn against the Imperials. Even now they work to aid him in the war front knowing that the longer the fighting goes the more both forces will be bleed out to prevent them from turning their gaze upon the hated elves for future generations. I can see the Imperials rising up and getting a long overdue revenge against the aldmeri dominion. I can not see a Nordic rise of a united Skyrim being able to get revenge against the aldmeri dominion. 5) The sad truth. I see Ulfric as a good man who the world did wrong. Someone who should have gotten a better life. Yet... I do not see Ulfric as a good leader. I see him having good intentions, strong ideals, and WANTING to do what is right for his people... I just don't see him being able to achieve it. He is a man born of passion and lead by passion... but not a man who had a plan on how everything will ultimately be achieved. Though I am curious to see what those who do think the Storm Cloaks should win the war would think of the long term prospects of an Ulfric lead Skyrim. On how it would be any better or different... than an Imperial victory. Yes Talos will be allowed to be openly worshiped and that does matter in this setting... but what else? Having to sit back and wait to recover your forces from a bloody civil war? Having to sort out policies and politics of the nords who have their own ideas and cultures as some willingly sell out their own people for a bit of extra coin and silver? A mountain full of people who can teach people how to utilize the 'Shout' and yet none of the Storm Cloaks or Imperials have ever bothered to learn or use it... and Ulfric did mostly because he was sent there in exile in response to his failure? What is a Storm Cloak victory? Especially when the Dragon born is removed from the picture? Especially when Hermaeus Mora comes to claim the Dragon born or remove the Dragon born from the board? How shall Skyrim fair then with the Storm Cloak victory?

[@Orthane]

"Unfair or dishonorable" isn't really a fair way to portray it either. The Nords are people of strength, if the High King gets absolutely annihilated that easily by one he commands, he isn't fit to be High King, that's how Nords work.

[@xboxtagthedarkfenix]

Just discovered your channel and soo happy I have. I love Bethesda for the elder scrolls universe they created. The lore is wonderful and meaty and having lore videos like this covering more about the lore makes me so very happy. Amazing keep it up guys this is fantastic!!!!!

[@chadwolf3840]

Another gem. Well done.

[@Geeler]

YOU'RE COAL!!!

[@Capt.Thunder]

If I was an elf, I'd be pissed off with humanity trying to overwrite Auriel's save file with Akatosh. Also, they do seek to end the world, not rule it ultimately, which is unironically a more achievable goal for them.

[@wolves600]

The end the world thing is a theory based on writings from a ex writer for Bethesda Michael Kirkbride So it could be true but it could also not be true

[@erikwillis2181]

I love how interesting the lore around the civil war is because something about that quest line has to be

[@theangryimp1345]

The nords remind me of the anglo saxons in architecture and culture. But this split of west and east is very much like the danelaw and alfredslaw. Funny to think if one countrys history was most like skyrim I'd say its dark age england. I wounder if that was an inspiration. Especially when you think about the fact that alfred who'd be like the imperial side of skyrim is actually called elfs counsel.

[@rhysnichols8608]

I agree but I view the empire as the remnants of rome

[@theangryimp1345]

@rhysnichols8608 in a way its still accurate. Remember wessex had a lot more french and roman culture than the rest of england. And look up the Stamford hoard anglo saxon helmet and tell me that isn't a roman helmet.

[@rhysnichols8608]

@ I still see the empire in Skyrim as been analogous to the late stage Roman Empire losing its grip on its provinces in Northern Europe and Germanic tribes gaining full independence (stormcloaks) and although west Saxons were a bit more ‘Romanocised’ than the britons further east I don’t think they had a significant affinity to Roman culture. They copied helmets for practicality and the Roman helmet designs themselves at a lot of Celtic influence by late stage rome the lines between barbarians and romans was very blurred with goths having a lot of influence in and out of the empire. So for me skyrims imperial faction reminds me of rome a few decades before it’s collapse, still powerful but becoming more and more corrupt and weak

[@Burned-Legate]

Supporting the Empire is delaying the inevitable. Morrowind, Black Marsh, and Hammerfell have all left of their own volition, and are not fans of the Empire and how it treated them, it is unlikely they would be willing to ally with it again as they see the Empire and the Thalmor as the same problem. Hammerfell shows that the claim "we need the Empire to beat the Thalmor" is flat out wrong, and likely the exact opposite; the Empire is more willing to back down in an attempt to preserve some power as opposed to independent nations, or an alliance between them who will fight tooth & nail. Stormcloak is the way to go.

[@james739123]

Reasons for other races to join the Stormcloaks Redguards = Sees an alliance with a Stormcloak Skyrim as the best option against the Dominion. Dunmer and Argonions = To prove to the Nords that they are deserving of living along side them in Skyrim and to prove to their fellows that the only way to earn the respect of the Nords is to work for it and not sit on their hands complaining about it. Orcs = An opportunity to fight great foes like the Empire and Dominion and improve relations with the Nords. Imperials and Bretons = Fells betrayed by the Empire and wish to fight the Dominion without the bureaucracy and red tape. Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiit = Refuges from the Dominion's tyranny in their respected home land and wish to liberate their homes at a later date and and don't want to draw the attention of the Imperial authorities and the Thalmor in their shadows, hoping that soon the Nords will help liberate their home as they help liberate Skyrim.

[@ignarskjolvjentski7809]

Longform videos are definitely the best

[@AgentSqueaky]

In my opinion I can see the Empire signing a peace treaty with Ulfric especially if Titus's replacement is more por Talos and anti Dominion.

[@badluck5647]

Doubtful. Ulfric seems unwilling to fight to defend the Empire or the Imperials wouldn't trust him.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

Honestly in order for anything like you mentioned were to come to light then the Mede dynasty needs to die. They have proven far too corrupt and so if a new dynasty rose up and actually had a backbone but thats likely to never happen. Its hard to grow a backbone when you're in a land governed by weak leaders

[@connivingkhajiit]

I think it might be possible. Ultimately priority isn't really against the thalmor solely, it's for independent skyrim. If the empire, and as such the thalmor, are rid from Skyrim I could see his concerns against the empire ending at that extent.

[@TheLastKentuckyIrregular9524]

​@@badluck5647 More likely the Thalmor would attempt to attack Skyrim. The only way to invade for them is through Cyrodiil. They try to invade, the Empire betrays them, the Thalmor army is destroyed, and the Stormcloaks and Empire make peace. Pretty easy narrative.

[@badluck5647]

@@TheLastKentuckyIrregular9524 You know Skyrim has a coast?

[@t8kabr8km85]

Babe its time for another 200 hour skyrim playthrough because i watched a lore video

[@idipped2521]

Instead of playing Skyrim again I’m finish a Morrowind and oblivion playthrough

[@SunsetStarship]

"Forget the list. He goes to the block.". The Captain chose for me. If you don't want to be my enemy, don't try to chop off my head.

[@AaronsOpenDoor]

I will always choose imperials & murder the thalmor. Simpley because of the dialogue of the court wizard in solitude. The high king respected ulfric & would have stood up when the time was right. But because of the massive force of the thalmor & the fact a majority of the nord fighting force was in the imperial legion along with the trade & supplies is keeping Skyrim from basically starving everyone it was not the currently the best choice especially because they could still practice there religion in secret & still pass on the knowledge that talos was still Tiber septim