1:11

[@STRIDER99r1]

Bro...why is it anytime I need information on a part to buy, your video comes up and not only are they VERY informative, the information is spot on to give an unbiased review. I hate long videos EXCEPT yours! You put the BS to rest and give information needed for someone to make a decision. You are awesome brother and thanks for what you do for us weekend racers!

[@UpAllNight91]

Appreciate that! Surely glad to hear it helped you. Have a great weekend!

[@STRIDER99r1]

@@UpAllNight91 where are you located man? Im in VA at 0 elevation. I found that the 172 main jet was the best also with the v force reeds. What needle and clip position are you running? What pilot?

[@UpAllNight91]

@@STRIDER99r1 Im down in Parrish florida. Sea level. My summer jetting is 172 main, 52 pilot, stock needlr in stock second position, and air screw at 1 turn out, stock power jet. In the winter I use 175 main, 52 pilot, stock needle in stock second position, and air screw at 3/4th a turn out, stock power jet. The 52 pilot might sound rich but for me these YZ250's feel good with it. It gives a little more control at crack of the throttle, a little torqueir and controllable. Also these bikes like to ping right in the pilots range more than anywhere else, mainly with the 5UP head or any head with a tighter squish and fairly high compression. The 52 pilot surely calms that down as well.

[@STRIDER99r1]

@@UpAllNight91 thanks man! I have the apex head with sx dome and you are right, I get ping when I close the throttle. I'll try a richer pilot like you did. Again man, appreciate all you post and the reviews, you are awesome

[@UpAllNight91]

@@STRIDER99r1 Thanks! Yeah surely try the richer pilot and that should clean up the pinging and I think you will like how it feels.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

The tighter intake tract of the Boyesen speeds up the air velocity just like your carb venturi. I think it helps the reeds open a bit earlier.

[@barrywilliams5813]

Nice vid.... info couldn't be better, keep up the good work Bro, nuff respect!!!

[@UpAllNight91]

Thanks Brother!!! Appreciate you watching!

[@eaglemx45]

I have found using stock cages with boyesen dual reeds to be best for me far as performance and longevity. Vforce have worn faster for me and one cage blew apart that was new, previous lasted me all race season 40hrs with a pedal change. Have not tried the rad valve.

[@UpAllNight91]

I really wanted to add the pro series boyesens (dual stage would be interesting to try too) on the stock cage in this review but didn't have any on hand and didn't have time to wait as I wanted to get this out before Christmas. But I do suspect like you mentioned, the stock cage can do very well once the stops are removed, unblocking the boost port. I too have noticed on customers bikes that the v force reed pedals don't do well after 50 hours for whatever reason. Where stock pedals and cage can go well past 100 hours. Thanks for the comment and for watching!

[@hoopstress5665]

I had a Vforce on my YZ250 and was having air leak problems at the gaskets. I put the reed block flange on a reference plate and you could see gaps at various positions around perimeter. I called Moto Tassinari and they claimed it was due to over torquing the attachment bolts resulting in deforming the composite/plastic flanges. I ended up buying the Boyeson because the flange is aluminum and it only requires one gasket. The Vforce requires 3 gaskets, starting at cylinder you have gasket/spacer/gasket/reed block flange/gasket/intake boot. The Boyeson integrates the stock rubber intake boot and reed block into one integral unit so you have just the single gasket between cylinder and flange. The Boyeson still requires a rubber boot between reed block and carb so you have 2 hose clamps rather than just one but those interfaces are not really problematic for air leaks. In my mind a simpler design results in better reliability. If you have a Vforce I recommend doing a pressure decay test and check for leaks around the gaskets.

[@UpAllNight91]

Hello. Since making the video my brother gas talked me into uses 3 OEM gaskets on the vforce. So far its been good but it is plastic so keeping and eye on it for sure. Agreed the rad valve is a solid unit. Didnt like the extra weight of it but I'm sure that thing will last forever

[@EarthSurferUSA]

@@UpAllNight91 The cure for the extra weight of the rad valve,---is taking a poop before you ride. lol

[@UpAllNight91]

@@EarthSurferUSA LoL right!. A good poop is worth a pound and a half. I weighed a before and after years ago lol

[@askmeyicare]

Awesome video, love the content!

[@UpAllNight91]

Thanks brother!!!

[@whiteman3075]

Nice comparison I would like you to test with the spacer vs no spacer. It should have more bottom with it but more top without it but would like your option on how it feels and what you think since you have all the read blocks. Possibly even test that rad valve with the spacer in and see if it improves your opinion on it. Keep up the videos it’s gana be a great day!

[@UpAllNight91]

Hello. Yes I do plan to do a video comparison with removing the spacer. Should be in a month or less. See how that does.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

@@UpAllNight91 I added a 3 or 5mm thick spacer to a reed valve on a 250 MX bike decades ago to smooth out the hard hitting mid range a bit. It worked. I am putting this reed in my 250 (V-force 3), and I want more low and mid range punch. If I don't see any clearance issues, I am leaving the spacer out. I think it was 2012 when they lowered the compression too, so I got the earlier head. I measured the difference. If you machine off .0085" from the gasket surface of your stock head, it will equal the previous higher compression head. Of course, the old one bolts right up. I am building a 3rd-4th gear sand whoop monster. I want that blast of a mid-range when needed. :)

[@sambuvca22]

Love that place. spent a bunch of years in Cape Coral. i was there for the long awaited opening of Florida Tracks and Trails. Place was great!

[@UpAllNight91]

Nice! I wish Florida track and trails would open the MX track back up.

[@kc4412]

Chris, I just looked at my set up. Vforce3 but no spacer. What difference would that make? I wonder if my guy left it off on purpose. Man, another great video. You are a YZ guru!

[@UpAllNight91]

Adding the spacer increases the volume of the crank area which helps produce better top end power. Removing the spacer decreases the crank areas volume which helps produce better bottom end. So its a trade off for sure. Also adding the spacer moves the reeds further back from the boost port which should help further unrestrict the boost port. I haven't done a back to back but thats what I gathered doing research, and running into very old forums with Eric gorr speaking on the crank areas pre-compression and volume. If you can round up a spacer its surely worth a try, especially if you wanting to broaden the power when shes on the pipe.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

@@UpAllNight91 "Adding the spacer increases the volume of the crank area which helps produce better top end power". That may be a factor, but I don't think that is quite true. You will mellow out the power by adding the spacer, and it might seem to rev higher, when it is just taking longer to get there. If the pipe is sucking as it should for scavenging, it can help hold the reed open longer with less primary compression ratio. I think a reed intake engine is easier to tune than a piston port, because I don't have to worry about intake time/area or duration, and eliminating a factor is welcomed by me. :) I think tight cases work best for reeds, and get the kind of power you want with porting and pipe. What I don't understand, is those ECU map thingies. :)

[@aaronbligh3619]

Awesome bike ,

[@UpAllNight91]

Thanks!

[@derrickray4196]

It might be in my mind but my bikes feel like they have a quicker hit without the spacer. 250x with boyseen and 02 yz250 with stock reeds.

[@UpAllNight91]

I've heard that from others too. I never tried myself. But I also hear from tuners that the spacer increases crank area volume which helps decrease pumping looses, which helps free up top end power. Without testing myself it sounds like spacer for top end, no spacer for stronger bottom end and hit

[@derrickray4196]

I agree I def have a flatter top end but that’s okay for me. I trail ride and rarely get out of 3rd gear

[@UpAllNight91]

@@derrickray4196 yeah its all about what works for you and your environment. I'm a old school 125 rider so I don't mind covering and feathering the clutch but my brother likes his to be all on the throttle. Nice thing is we can tune these yz250s to do pretty much whatever we want

[@barkeep25]

Lol , you and your brothers voices are almost exactly the same! Couldn't tell who was talking

[@UpAllNight91]

LoL. Yes we are actually twins. 14 minutes apart

[@250race]

Boysen petals on stock cage and take the stuffer out Try that V3 have no low end

[@UpAllNight91]

Thanks for the suggestion. I will be replacing the 2018 with a 2024 soon and when I do I will be going back to the drawing board.

[@jeremydoblinger3609]

The fact that you need to re jet the boysen makes me think it does more then the v force.. that being said iam gonna try both of them..😊

[@UpAllNight91]

The rad valve surely changes the way the motor feels the most. The question is if its the type of change you like. The V force is only a mild change but in a different direction and feel than the rad valve. If you have the time and dont mind spending a few extra buck then trying both for yourself is surely the way to go.

[@twistymcslide2]

next you should try to port the boyesen , and port match where its corked up . . id try the spacer on the V-Force also . with cars , changing the length of runners can have drastic gains at different parts of the rpm range . id maybe also try a suggestion Stankdog suggested in a gypsy interview , where he said he would take the 38mm carb offh is 125 , and put it on the 250 , and put the 36mm car from the 250 onto the 125. search for the interview : Stankdog shares his 125 2-Stroke Race Bike build secrets! - Gypsy Tales Podcast .

[@UpAllNight91]

Ahh yeah, that stankdog interview was epic! I too still can't figure out why they put a 36mm on a 250. I can feel that when I ride the KTMs too. Feels like I gotta dig deep into the throttle to get some power out of them . I think I'm going to try to port match the v force to the intake boot. There are a few edges in that area that can be smoothen out. As for the rad valve. I won't be working with that one anymore only due to the weight. I just can't add weight unless its like really really worth it lol. But I may try removing the spacer on the vforce just so I know first hand

[@Ghost_MuddyGang]

That’s wat I’m currently running on my 00 kx125 Keihin air striker 36, my Boyesen just came in today, happy I just watched this review🙏🏾🔥, my boot has more cracks then a dry turtle in the sun😂, I’ve been chasing a high idle And ive recently rebuilt and changed all seals, my jug and base head is good and torqued, but still couldn’t find that high idle culprit, my last thought BOOT, REED or INTAKE GASKES!

[@UpAllNight91]

@Ghost_MuddyGang hello. I also did a video with the reeds on my YZ125. The boyesen surely did better on the 125 than the 250 in my opinion. . Here is a link if your interested kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooi7eKypg7OKrtUsi=KpsIceCJUt2ERT7Q

[@NicholasPoncedeLeon]

Have you come across the Yamaha Vforce 3i version?

[@UpAllNight91]

No I havent, I didnt know they made 3i for the YZ250

[@seuvagem1950]

There are some folks on internet who says that the rad valve needs to be installed with the spacer, otherwise the petals will hit the cylinder walls when it's totally open. I think you may give it another try.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

If they don't have pictures, there is no reason to believe them. :) The petals actually only open a few millimeters at the tips.

[@barkeep25]

I'm not convinced that is a spacer in the pro circuit bike, if it is its considerably thinner than stock. Looks almost like a thick gasket

[@UpAllNight91]

Its better seen on the video itself here on this link kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXjFh6B_r7Kka9U

[@barkeep25]

@@UpAllNight91 ok yeah

[@UpAllNight91]

Well GHECKOV15 had me take another good look and sure enough now it looks like the PC bike does not have the spacer. He said reeds 2004 bike did though... hmm

[@elcincero321]

Any flywheel weights?

[@UpAllNight91]

No, stock flywheel weight.

[@josephtaylor2874]

Hey, upallnight. I just rebuilt my engine on my 02yz250. I actually followed along with one of your videos. The bike ran great till I messed around and ran it out of gas. After filling it back up, I couldn't get it to crank, so I rebuilt the carb, I also put v force reeds on while I had the carb off. The bike ran great for a day, and now it won't start. I checked compression and spark, and they're both good. Could it be something to do with my new reeds, or my second guess is that I did something wrong when I rebuilt my carb. What do you think ?

[@UpAllNight91]

Even though it test good for spark I would surely start by installing a brand new plug. I have seen it many times where it test good and shows spark but a new plug got her firing off again.

[@josephtaylor2874]

As far as testing spark, I didn't use any kind of test equipment, I just verified spark visually, I'm not sure if there is any equip for that. I tried changing the spark plug, but I had no luck. Could it be my coil ?

[@GHECKOV15]

Awesome videos Love the info Brother I have a 21 Model yz250 And I'll have just put On the V force 3 Lost rebuild Well I have seen videos with Chad Reed 04 Model bike And you can see clearly it has the spacer in front of it i have also checked out Ken Roxen Bike If you look casually The Spacer It is not on it You can see the GasketsThey also have one in front of the Manifold Look carefully at it It looks like it is there but it's not I have put mine on without the spacer And it looks exactly the same as the pro circuit ken Roxen bike Not trying to be right just trying to help Because it is something that I would like to know myself ! It seems that people are doing both Keep up the awesome videos BrotherI look forward to them !

[@GHECKOV15]

I also noticed If you compare the thickness Of the V force block to the stock block with Spicer Its the same thickness

[@UpAllNight91]

Ahh i think you may be right... now that I look at it with what you said in mind it may not have the spacer. Do you know what video shows chad reeds motor? Also trying to figure it out lol. Doing a ton of internet searching i ran into a thread from like 2003 where Eric gorr was talking to another tuner and he said he played with increasing and decreasing crank area volume and found no real gains there, except if you get the volume too tight and pressure too high then pumping losses raise to the point of robbing some peak HP. They both concluded that it was pointless to focus on the volume on a race motor that runs on a tuned pipe. The theory was the tuned pipe did the pumping with its resonance. The days of stuffing the crank area was back when the pipes didn't work as well and there wasn't so much of a powerband. Appreciate the comment and helping get to the bottom on this. and Merry Christmas! (Crap how do I edit a KZbin video now lol)

[@barkeep25]

So I just learned that the vp t2 premixed race gas is oxygenated. Was watching a video from Matt Burkeen on his yz250 build that raced and qualified in the nationals with and he mentioned going up to 192 main jet!!!said "insane difference" and feels like 2-3 more hp. I checked my local shop has it for $85 for 5 gallon only. Pretty expensive even with oil. Which i heard is probably maxima. I want to try it out and see. Have you ran this stuff??

[@barkeep25]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3OrdIl6mb1lj9k Here's the video, it at 5:00 minute mark

[@UpAllNight91]

No I never tried. I would be interested if the price was a little better and if it didn't come premixed already. I like to mix in my own oil. Also I had a friend that used that stuff and fried his motor. When I opened the motor it seemed like there was zero oil in it. I like to put my own oil in so I know, if ita not in there then its my mistake lol

[@UpAllNight91]

I seen that video too btw. Cool video and nice to see him out there on a smoker. Wish I was his mechanic

[@barkeep25]

@@UpAllNight91 could be didn't richen the main? I mean 192 is crazy and said could go bigger!

[@barkeep25]

Or could add some extra oil, its at 40:1. I've heard it's probably maxima but don't know which one. But you are right it's pretty expensive.. I might try it though.

[@jamesoso259]

The rain coming in did not make the jetting change like that lol

[@UpAllNight91]

It does here is Florida. Even sport bikes you can feel it when the rain is coming in. Not sure if its low pressure or humidity but we have been here our whole life and that just happens

[@EarthSurferUSA]

I have one word for Croom. Well, it is not even a word, but you will know what I mean. "MX14"

[@timsmith8391]

Nice 96 graphics

[@UpAllNight91]

Thanks!

[@poorboyracing1353]

Looks like croom

[@UpAllNight91]

Yes 👍 Sir!

[@nastysoda9212]

messing with a carb covered in sand freaks me out

[@UpAllNight91]

LoL. I can understand that. I been changing carb settings, jets and stuff at the track for years. I just try my best to wipe up and catch anything that can or has fallen in the motor. If I'm careful it can be done cleanly and safely.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

This is terrible. They are not explaining the differences well enough to understand, and I know for a fact, if you did the jetting correctly, you would feel different results than this test. Sorry. I am an engineer.

[@MDM1992]

With which reed valve do you mean? The boyesen? Ive only ever ran stock and vforce3's but have been really considering the boyesen lately, of the other 2 i actually preferred the stock reed valve. Im also considering forking out for a smart carb 2 but i am a little hesitant with that one sine the carb they come with is great when jetted correctly.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

@@MDM1992 Both. You can't accept the results of a test if factors are not known or are out of control. To preform a good test that has accurate results, they really need to learn to jet the carb. I have just finished my 2019 YZ250 engine, (did things for more low end for aggressive trail riding,---at my age, lol). One thing I noticed is the stock reed block has red petal stops, the the upper stop covers about 50% of the rear transfer (that points to then spark plug) tunnel opening. That may not clean out the exhaust at the back of the cylinder as well as it could, (and that is where I got some detonation with 90 octane gas. Use higher octane in the stock bike. Here are the mods I did to my YZ to make it beefy down low with a strong mid-range. I do expect top rpm to be maybe 800 rpm lower, but I don't use it in trails. All the mods are reversible, so if it is too much power down low, you can reverse one or two. 1) V-force reeds (first time I used them. Have used Boysen and thought they could make more low end power, 2 decades ago). I did not add the stock aluminum reed block spacer for more crank case pressure. That can be reversed if the engine hits too hard. 2) FMF Gnarley pipe 3) Lower the cylinder by not using a cylinder base gasket (about .024" lower cyliner, leaves about .050" squish clearance. Will need 100 octane gas.), but sealing the cylinder to the cases with a good gasoline resistant gasket sealer. Just lay a little bead everywhere needed, with cylinder already on the piston. I use a medial syringe. (That can be reversed if it hits too hard also. But if I like it, I will take .024" off the base of the cylinder next winter and use the stock gasket again. 4) Make sure your ignition timing is on the proper mark, (at the bottom of the flywheel, hard to see.). Not that castings are perfect, but some are off from the factory. 5) I did not change any port sizes, but I cleaned up the goobers and put a nice champher on the ports. The stock exhaust port champher's were not good, and beat up the rings. 6) Weisco piston kit. Get rid of that stock piston asap IMO. I did have a bit of detonation, but it should have held up better and was toast with life still in the set of rings. 7) after all that is done, jet the carb. It is best to do the main jet first (wide open runs, up hill on a cold day is best. hit the kill switch, check the plug,--want light brown). Drop the needle, (they are always rich from the factor too.). I have done one groove and been perfect before, but it is a pretty big jump. you can buy or make little washers that go under the needle clip to go a 1/2 groove. I make 1/4, 1/2, and a 3/4 (groove distance) spacers for great tune ability. If you set your jetting really well (meaning close to the edge of too lean), on a up hill (more load means more fuel is needed), and on your coldest riding days, your jetting will get a bit richer as the weather warms up. They still run great for a 30 or so degree change IMO. After the main and the needle, I don't think I ever changed a pilot jet, (effective to 1/4 throttle), but there may be some gains there for the real low rpm stuff. Because of the increasing rpm's is it much more likely you will damage your engine if you make a mistake on the main jet (too lean. gray or white plug a no no) than on the needle, or the pilot by far. When done right, you should only have a little smoke on start up, and then it runs pretty clean. Your plug should be a light brown color and totally dry, and you should not have any more black gook coming out of your exhaust silencer ant a that power valve drain tube. Oh yea, the engine runs better at just about rpm, gains more top rpm, and is good for at least another 2hp. You will feel it. Doug in Michigan ESP (Earth Surfer Performance)

[@michaelgarland579]

Wiesco piston suck I will never ever put one in my bike I had Wiesco piston in for 15 hours an seized an tore my cylinder up so I bought numara piston