10 beliefs among children of borderline mothers (sage sessions #12)

[@graysandmidnightblues]

Thank you for making these videos. I'm a 17 year old from India who has been groomed, abused, bullied and neglected. I also suspect that I have ADHD, but I have never been diagnosed with it since mental health isn't taken seriously in my country. I have been going through a lot and your videos really help me ground myself and validate what I am going through.

[@lauraz.1610]

Stay strong love. You will get through this and come out of it a free and happy adult. Sending you strength.

[@graysandmidnightblues]

@@lauraz.1610 thank you so much 🩷

[@MOLLYversion7.0]

❤

[@AndreaBuck21]

“…when the source of safety is also the source of fear.” Thank you for this powerful explanation.

[@Paulohlsson7]

Hi Andrea, how's your day going with you?

[@DrKimSage]

I never want to add to stigma, but i also believe it's important for me to be vulnerable around this truth. Still -if you have been diagnosed with BPD and you have any traits of autism, please consider an autism screening. xo

[@Sarah-with-an-H]

Don't worry you did great. This is a difficult topic and many of us know it well and understand what you're saying here.

[@Patrice11300]

When my sister and I were little girls (5 and 7) we would leave the house together to get away from our mom. It was the early 70’s so parents didn’t care if we were gone all day but I remember my older sister saying “I can’t wait until I’m older so I can tell Mom to shut up!!!” I just sent my younger brother some of your videos about BPD and abandonment and CPTSD then this video popped up. We’re all discovering this issue with our late mom and working on healing. Thank you so much!

[@kaysummeraire8340]

My childhood ! my summers were magical cuz for 8 hours we ran the woods played in streams thru natures grounding and sun energy to rejuvenate and store up for coming 9 months of lunatic fringe.

[@offairhead]

I think my mom had both BPD and NPD and the more I watch your videos the more I believe that.

[@Persephonetoo]

Thank you for explaining that sometimes the worst abuse from a toxic parent happens when you're an adult. My Mom was not borderline, but covert narcissistic, yet what you're saying rings true for me too. The older and more independent I got, the worse she treated me. She was a single mother, so when I was younger I didn't question her behavior. When I became a teenager and started talking back and standing up for myself, I started to see that her behavior and my emotional reactions to her were not normal. I started to dream of trying to fly away, while she would chase me and keep me from flying. A couple times I dreamt of her being some kind monster that I had to kill. Once, as a young adult in collage, I dreamt that if I crossed a certain bridge, she would forget who I was. I crossed it and then woke up. When she eventually had Alzheimer's and didn't recognize me, I was relieved that she couldn't hurt me anymore. I always explain that I was never physically abused, but she was emotionally neglectful and manipulative. My sister and brother were 20 and 18 years older, from her 1st marriage, so I didn't see how she treated them as children, but I never saw her show them love or affection as adults. Even when my sister had terminal cancer, she still taunted her and fought with her, yet told people after my sister died that she moved closer to her to help take care of her. She didn't show grief when my sister died, but she ate it up when other people would feel sorry for her because her daughter had died. I never saw her be mean to anyone but her own children. She asked me once why all her children hated her, probably expecting me to say tbat I didn't hate her. Instead I said, "Because you're self-centered and hurtful." The next day she punished me by giving me a letter while I was at work that made me cry. She smiled when she saw me crying.

[@yazzie208]

The fact that she didn't see the irony that she proved your point... I'm sorry you had to go through this. And sorry for your loss. I can't imagine the pain of losing a sibling. Dealing with that mother on top... Unbelievable. Hope you can heal and build your own healthy life

[@starflower703]

I am so sorry you had to go through all of that. I really can relate to a mother like that. My mother developed Parkinson’s with dementia and it was so severe she had to be put on antipsychotic medication. She didn’t forget who I was, although she couldn’t distinguish between my sister and I most of the time even though we’re 24 years apart. I wish she hadn’t known who I was, because she was viscous before they medicated her. Her psychiatrist picked up on the trauma I was experiencing and put us in separate rooms to protect me from her vitriol. Thankfully the medication helped her distinguish between the stories in her head and reality. And as awful as it sounds, I admit I was relieved when she passed away. I refuse to feel guilty for feeling that way, because I loved her despite how mean and dysregulated she was at times.

[@chrissemenko628]

I remember looking at my mom in her casket back in 96 and not knowing WHAT i felt. Its taken me almost 30 years to forgive her. She had been terribly damaged at some point too obviously.

[@alllscination]

Thanks for sharing this. I can relate. I'm autistic, my father is, too, most likely. My mother is diagnosed bipolar but from my research the borderline traits really fit with my own experience with her and how she affected me. The only way to bond with her is through negativity. There was never patience or encouragement or help. I either did it well myself and got praised or I was made to feel like a failure. Both me and my older sister were raised to be caretakers while I was usually more the scapegoat and my sister the golden child but that could switch if my sister didn't meet her expectations. She has suicidal tendencies. Even told me once that she didn't think about me and my sister the one time she was closest to going through with it, possibly hoping for my absolution. People are always good or bad including herself. So she is always trying to get people to be on her side in conflict situations. The last time I went on holiday with my parents before they separated when I was 14 it was so bad. My older sister was long out of the house then and didn't come along. My mother and father had been constantly either actively fighting or in a state of cold war silence for years, but during the holiday she managed to make me the bad guy again to bond with my father against the common enemy. I refused to go outside with them because I couldn't handle the constant cold, nagging, criticizing behaviour. I stayed in the hotel room by myself. After years and years of living in an emotional war zone I was so burned out and felt so overwhelmed and angry that one night I actually phantasized about killing her to be able to just get some peace and quiet. It took me a long time to forgive myself for this. Fortunately I understand it now. After my parents separated my mother luckily moved out. She basically begged me to come with her but I stayed with my father. She always wanted us to be close but she never really showed much interest in my as an individual person, constantly crossing boundaries and going against my explicitly stated preferences or requests. I have come to the conclusion that she just wants to have her ideal mother-daughter-relationship to feel like she is less alone. I have been in no contact for several years now to protect my sanity. Nothing ever changed with her and I have given up hope that it ever will.

[@prodigal_southerner]

Having a parent with a cluster b personality disorder is incredibly difficult. She assumed that any deviation in my behavior from what she thought was normal was a consequence of me trying to be intentionally disobedient or disrespectful. My mom called me a sociopath for most of my childhood because I didn't cry enough when my grandfather died. When I was 8 years old. I started therapy in my early 20s and fired my first three therapists because they tried to convince me that I am not a sociopath instead of trying to help me stop being one. It's now been almost 15 years since I last spoke to her, and if I never speak to her again it will be too soon.

[@stefaniedipoce1847]

I have watched 4 of your videos today, for the first time, and my jaw has hit the floor with every video I have watched. I have always thought my sister suffered from BPD but I didn’t know my mom did until today. In one of your videos from 3 years ago, you went through about 20 examples of what it can look like, and every single one rang true. Mind blown!

[@isabellammusic]

Amazing video. ❤ You are so brave for going no contact and give yourself the love and respect you deserve. I'm really sorry for the pain you've endured and I also want to say that this video helps me understand a lot of things and it also makes me a better mom because I get to self reflect though I'm not bordeline myself. Sometimes I can get lost in my own emotions and be really affected by dysregulation, overstimulation and stress. I'm learning how to be concious and careful with what I do or say when my kids are around because I don't want them to feel responsible or inadequate. I show them I want to know what they are feeling and ask them about their mental health and struggles.

[@PaigeSquared]

I recently read some information from Patricia Evans, in her work on "controlling people," how during a certain type of abuse, the perpetrator essentially blacks out. They do not remember when they define other people's experience, when they are in deep gaslighting, and telling the other "how it is." That is not perceived nor remembered in the same way. This allowed me to see how this type cannot see what they are doing. They really do not remember. They really think other people's hesitation with them is their problem.

[@gigicolada]

My whole life I have always felt the most connected to my mom when we were crap talking her enemies. I’m glad I’ve grown up and learned having a S-list isn’t anything to be proud of, but she’s still very negative surrounding her relationships and it’s so clear to me now how dysfunctional it is and always has been. I’ve grown up to be a person who actually enjoys her friendships.

[@maisha_yangu]

"You thought you could just get a job and forget about your mother!” Those were her words to me among many others. When I tried to finally move out so that I could live closer to work. When I lost my contract to the job, she made it seem like I deserved it, because moving out on my own, was me "hurting" her "abandoning" her and the “family” and “betraying” her. I'll be so glad when I don't have to live or deal with my mother anymore. I'm so done with my so-called family.

[@nikstar1313]

Mine: YOU LEFT ME WITH YOUR FATHER AT 18

[@maisha_yangu]

@@nikstar1313 I'm sorry to hear that.

[@mandarinadreux9572]

I relate to everything on the list so much, apart from the last one "I love her, I love her not". Maybe there's others out there who relate to my story of growing up with a BPD mum with strong autistic traits. I don't know if it's strange but I stopped loving my mother in a conscious heartbreaking effort when I was about 7 years old. It was just not worth it. Mine and my sister's life was hell at this point. Every day a cycle would repeat. She would scream at us for hours, until we were crying our little hearts out (I was about 4/5 years old at this point. It was before school), she would take our stuff and throw it around in the living room until there was total chaos and then she would make us clean it all up, before she fled to her room, locked herself in it and left us there in all of the clutter, totally helpless and totally overwhelmed with this cleaning task, let alone our precious things that were being thrown around the room, like dolls and toys. In the evening she would leave from her room at some point, crying and start hugging us, being the "good mum" again. Damn, it sounds so horrible, writing it down. And it really was. Every day the world was ending. I've always been a truthteller in the family system and I guess, I felt like it wasn't worth it anymore. I wouldn't keep playing this stupid game anymore and I refused to make up at the end of the day. This is when I stopped loving her. I had to or I would have been totally crushed. It was safer to be alone than to be constantly heartbroken by the mother. She was so unstable. I do not love her. As I was growing a bit older, I just wished, that she would go, she would vanish. I prayed that she would die every day. I didn't understand any other way out of this system. I was a powerless child and she was absolutely insane at this time. I've always felt that her emotional state was that of a 5 year old and from a very early point, I've felt more emotionally mature than her. There was nothing to learn from her, so I turned to books and they taught me relationships in many of its forms. I instinctively felt what was right and what was wrong. I grew more mature than she had ever become and that was way before I started truly healing and reflecting. I very much have disorganised attachment - for me, the avoidant part is much stronger though because that is the only move that saved me when I was a very young child. I do not resent my mother anymore. But I do not love her either. I pity her and I can have a distant superficial relationship with her but I only do it for her sake because I know she regrets many things she did. So this is the last grace I extend to her. I do not need this relationship to her, I'd rather be no contact. But she is like a child in her mind. And she doesn't truly understand.

[@tae5184]

you are so brave and self-respectful. i wish there were more people who were willing to just be honest and say outright that they don't forgive and they don't love their mothers. there is an crushing amount of pressure from society and the family itslef to force yourself to love and to submit to people who torture you. i am only coming to that point at age 28. best of luck to you on your journey.

[@mandarinadreux9572]

Thank you. We have to tell the truth in order to heal. I understand that it can be too painful for some to admit that their childhood was unsafe and that is okay too. We don't always have to heal. The time comes when it comes. I have just realised today actually that there's a lot of stuff I still need to unpack to truly heal. Or will we ever? I'm always amazed how we can go through daily life seemingly normal sometimes and then the old feelings just come crashing down on you and you realise you're not fine. I'm wishing you all the best too. It is a long road we have to walk. And I love therapists like Dr. Sage who aren't afraid to speak the truth.

[@justanotherAA]

Hi Dr. Sage, you have hit on something really important and something I struggle with greatly and I haven’t heard a lot of. Still having fear even when you are an adult and out of some “reach”. I am extremely low contact with my BPD mom but still have this fear of her attacking me in some way if she is hurt/hurt feelings or may become angry. She has no qualms calling jobs, contacting friends, telling people untrue things. I am terrified if I tell her off or cut her off for my job or she could hurt my work environment. The last straw holding me back. 💯 I can’t wait until she is gone. Yeah absolutely. I feel this is the only time I will be truly able to relax and be safe.

[@tiiaigr7297]

I cannot begin to emphasize just how much I needed this video. I appreciate all of your videos. And am so greatful and thankful you take the time to put all of this information out there. Thank you for making these. Thank you for working through your hard subjects to help the rest of us heal and mend. Thank you.

[@MiriDLicious]

Thank you for mentioning the "I love her, I hate her" thing.... I was the youngest of 3 and got the brunt of her "you're my BFF and therapist" stuff from an early age. She also had a problem with yelling and big feelings... me and my older siblings were left alone with her after my father left her for another woman (fun story for another day. lol). I have disorganized attachment, low self-worth, and am a recovering people pleaser as a result of it. I spent most of my life taking care of her and walking on eggshells. She had no plans on changing... I was lucky though, if you can call it that... I had to wait until I was in my late 40's... and this part is hard to even type... she passed away a few years ago and it was the second-best thing she ever did for me (the first was giving birth to me). I was actually happy when she died... after the initial shock wore off after a day or so. I now feel safe enough to explore therapy and talk about my past. She controlled my life, and I let her... she told me where to go to college, that I should drop out for work, where I should live, that she had to live with me because I was "incapable" of being on my own (even though at 17 I was supporting her and myself while going to college fulltime), who I could be friends with, who to marry, and that I had to stay married (he provided for her). She did that by also making me believe that being my talkative, outgoing, funny, sparkly self was only going to make people hate me. I have discovered that people actually like me... I know I was shocked too... the journey is a long one, but I am already feeling the changes after just 3 years... life is amazing. I have secretly been a subscriber for a long time... mainly because she didn't use computers... the internet became a safe hiding place for me. Anyways, again, thank you for normalizing being glad our tormentors are gone.... even if they were our parents and we are supposed to feel loved and safe with them... and also for making this an educational yet welcoming channel. 🖤🖤🖤

[@Paulohlsson7]

Hi Miri, how's your day going with you?

[@MOLLYversion7.0]

Thank you Kim. Im sure that Im not the only in tears of gratitude and hope. You, like some other KZbin creators, have been that loving voice of a parent that wants THE BEST for you. Thank you

[@donnaparks764]

I am the youngest of three and my mom hated me. She would put a gun to my head and tell me she would kill me. She lied to my father and would get me in so much trouble. But she never done any of this to either of my siblings. I’m 60 years old and to this day my sister thinks I’m lying about it all. Everyone would always tell me “ oh you have the sweetest mother”. She would be raising hell one minute and if she heard a car pull up she became the sweetest nicest person on the earth. No one knew the hell I lived in. Why she hated me and not the other two I could never figure out. We all had the same father and he was there also but always believed mom. I have spent most of my lives fe trying to figure out why she hates me and why I was not good enough to be loved. Still don’t have an answer, and no one wants to talk about it because no one never seen her this way but me. Except for once when my brother walked in and caught her threating to kill me going after the gun. We jumped out a bedroom window and ran hid. But my sister still thinks it is a lie.

[@Sarah-with-an-H]

Another relatable video. One thing I know though is my mom had an awful mom. My grandma made sure my mom knew she didn't want her as she says my mom is the result of grandpa forcing himself on her. This would have Bern in 1950 when it was acceptable for husbands to force themselves on their wives. So there's a lot of compassion for my mom there because of that. Her generation was raised on black and white thinking so some things I'm not sure about, however her only example of being a mom to a girl was her mom, so even though I was wanted I ended up the release for her emotions because only showing good and positive emotions are allowed. Additionally she was wrapped up in her thoughts and resentment for my dad that I felt a lot of neglect. I believe I'm autistic. I can't seem to find a place that will assess adults and the stigma and prejudice keep me away from getting assessed. Anyway I observed everyone lying around me, but I'm the rage magnet because I would do things that where not great to get attention, but the only attention available was rage like hitting and screaming rage. There where many times I lied to buy time because I could tell no matter what the rage was going to happen. So a lie was enough to buy me time enough to get in the bathroom and shut the door behind me. So at least there wasn't physical abuse. I saw nothing but hypocrisy around me. I picked up many of my moms mannerisms as a way of forcing herself in from of a mirror and seeing her own reflection. She couldn't face that stuff so my teen years and much of my adult life have been hell when I've been put on this earth to help people see themselves more accurately. Most people don't or can't face that stuff.

[@JDforeveralone]

Your story is in many ways similar to mine. My gran - who I grew up with cos dad left mum before she gave birth - wasn't that sweet to her own kids and from all the stories I heard over the last four decades I can see that mum bore most of the brunt. I grew up in emotional neglect and partially abuse, when gran used me as a "blackmail" card with mum. I'm trying not to remember my childhood despite there having been good moments as well, mainly with my eldest uncle who was the one I clinged to. Myself I became as well emotionally unstable, codependent, attracted to an emotional unavailable man whom I got married to. Hope you find healing!

[@MelissaJ.K]

Dr. sage, I have watched most of your videos and found so much to relate to , however, this one hit home to an unbelievable degree. I am an only child, but listening to you was as if you were a sister that had lived in my home. I experienced all 10 of the issues you discussed almost verbatim. I went no contact with my mother 4+ years ago when I was 53 years old and never looked back . I don't hold hate or longing or regret in my heart... just absolute relief and total indifference. In therapy I was at first afraid to say any of this out loud out of fear I was betraying my mom . ..as if she could hear me and I was ashamed of being (in her words) disloyal and ungrateful for putting a voice to any negative emotion that I had stuffed inside for 5 decades. I am sorry that so many others have had similar experiences but am grateful for your experience, insight and videos letting me know I am not alone and that it's ok to say enough is enough and disengage entirely ... neither of us have any intention of reconciling and it is for the best. And I feel peace and comfort that I have stayed true to protecting myself and my family and creating an entirely new family dynamic and support system for my husband and my children. For anyone else who can relate, remember that while you can't change your circumstances growing up, you are not doomed to repeat them. You can't change the sadness and longing for the parent / parenting that you didn't have , but you can use your childhood experiences as an adult to effect positive change within your family going forward for your children and grandchildren ❤

[@MerchHelen]

So sad and yet so true. 😢

[@ecarl12]

Wow, this sounds like my mom to a "t." My dad was very needy because of his early dementia symptoms as he aged, so lots of expectation for me to give emotionally and resentment if I didn't. "Nice" folks to those outside the house; different story inside. I still cannot communicate with my mom because she won't stop talking for 2 minute to let me speak. I've gotten up and left or hung up the phone many times because she just doesn't seem to notice that her daughter is there and not a therapist that is there for her use.

[@Paulohlsson7]

Hi Carlson, how's your day going with you?

[@kath6229]

I was told in the 1990s by a professional, who met my mother, she may be a histrionic narcissistic BPD. So far with your videos I watched, I can relate to all of them.... for better or worse. Likely CPTSD & autism, and definitely anxiety. Unfortunately my resources are now waning. So what I really want to say is thank you for making and sharing these videos! My elderly parents (80s) can be an enormous challenge. With Dad's metastisized cancer mom's anger is through the roof, but I fear her less now. I calmly said to her this past week, "Yes, I know you hate me like you hate grandma as you say we are just the same.... you have made that clear since childhood." However, my older sister who in part raised me, and who is very similar to her and also possibly leans toward sociopathy, I now fear more and I am seriously considering 'no contact'.

[@FiresideLearning]

This video is so spot on! It would be helpful to hear the title of the book while you hold it up for those of us who just listen to the videos or who are watching on a two inch screen and can’t read the title.

[@kath6229]

Will I Ever Be Good Enough. Stop Walking on Eggshells. I Hate You - Don't Leave Me. Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist. Mothers Who Can't Love. Understanding the Borderline Mother.

[@kaysummeraire8340]

I came from a family of 5 sibs, BPD mom and alcoholic father. I married a NPD to have a BPD/NPD . My third trial an Asperger's hub and adopted a 1 yr old with FAE. I won't bore you with the outcome of my 5 bros. Vid spot on ! I have so much compassion for the Affected > I can tell you BPD one of the Most mis and under diagnosed mental illnesses . WHY? I could answer that also. Thankyou Dr Sage for bringing to Light a Devastating Disease that has very little research for treatment.

[@MissSarahGM]

I feel like I am the "needy" emotionally dependent one, as I was emotionally neglected in my childhood and youth. Now as an adult I feel like I am the anxious clingy one and she regularly and without notice can go no contact and not responding to my messages for weeks and months (it was over a year once). It makes me wonder where is it abuse and how often communication between mother-daughter is considered normal? Maybe not daily, but is it ok to ignore messages and calls for weeks and weeks and expect to pick up when she'll feel like it?

[@steenar.9698]

I always thought my mom was narcissistic and now I have to go down the rabbit hole about the difference between BPD and narcissistism

[@Ryleesoderberg23]

My mom always split between saying she was a terrible mom and to then saying I was terrible and she was “sick of kissing my ass” within hours I guess that’s what happens when you keep being told by family “your a great mom” I have been diagnosed with CPTSD and disorganized attachment being and adult and fully having to cut out my mom has been the hardest thing I have done in my life. I remember being in grade school getting off the bus and the house was so warm you could feel it from the driveway to the next day a dark cloud hovering the home. I always would say moms drinking again to my brother it was extremely confusing as a kid to see how much hate and love I could feel in a day

[@janetbellini8065]

Thank you so much for sharing this. I really can relate to this. 😢

[@LainaTayler]

Awesome videos thank you! Beliefs of a child of avoidant or dismissive avoidant might be a good video too. Maybe there is already and I just haven’t seen it yet though

[@PaigeSquared]

I have wished that my mom was the one to pass, instead of my dad. He passed away believing he was a burden, about a decade ago. I got a goodbye message, but the implications of that have never been discussed. (That it was intentional).

[@108latte]

I think my sister has this because I can relate to so much you said.

[@alexandrariedhammer7752]

Sounds like you telling my story 🥲🥲🙏

[@graydlett]

thank you. 😪♥️

[@cookiemooshi]

Can you please do a segment about daughters of mothers with paranoid schizophrenia?

[@karenrnotakaren]

Could we get a list of those books? TY

[@hollyallyson4111]

Why is it that mothers get worse the older we get. Currently dealing with that with my own mom. It's like she just completely hates me now and doesn't try to fake it like she used to when I was younger. Or that's at least how it feels

[@MissSarahGM]

Hi, same thing. I believe getting older makes them more difficult, projecting more negative onto us, maybe from jealousy I don't know. When I was younger, I got either neglect or good love, now as I am older I mostly get more silent treatment and verbal abuse.

[@Jendromeda]

do you think this is always generational? do you think it can skip generations? i have familial disorders throughout my family from great grandparents to small great grandchildren now. The amount became so large that things are all falling away so as to leave very little of the family in contact with each other (presently 14 of us). It has disintegrated into alienation and pulling away.

[@LisaMarieB]

Shoot. I love learning from your videos and appreciate all your content and personalization but I can't listen to this ASMR new microphone sound you are doing. So many of your listeners are HSP or have PTSD (someone whispering threateningly in the ear). Am I the only one who can't take this sound format?

[@Paulohlsson7]

Hi Lisa, how's your day going with you?

[@pambrown5382]

I can't afford that book, no idea why it is so expensive.

[@Persephonetoo]

Try your local library system. Sometimes they have programs for digital books or audio books too.

[@jcimsn8464]

It's out of print

[@chrissemenko628]

​@@jcimsn84642nd hand bookstores are a treasure trove for out of print books