10 DLC Lore Discoveries That Change Everything (Shadow of the Erdtree) | Elden Ring

[@Hawkshaw]

What were your favourite lore moments in your journey through the Lands of Shadow?

[@renthealternative147]

finding the shaman village and seeing it’s where Marika grew up was awesome

[@nathanburriss6533]

The abyssal woods and Bayles lore from the dragon Lady.

[@Serjuh]

Finding out who done messed up Placidusax scratched an itch for me

[@FelheartX]

After helping Count Ymir (who is *obviously* not up to anything good), the reveal of the mother of fingers and the boss fight, crazy, cool, and creepy design.

[@ITBEurgava]

Everything that Ansbach discovered.

[@masterdna117]

Miquella IS dead. He is not a spirit like Serosh. We kill his body and soul when we kill Radhan. Thats why the remembrance is "Remembrance of a lord and a god". He is able to be killed because he stripped himself of his immortal flesh to become a new god. Also his death is confirmed by St Trina.

[@TheEternalClown]

Why does him stripping himself of his flesh make him able to be killed? He still has flesh when we fight him, somehow regenerated. St. Trina doesn't confirm anything. Just tells us to kill him

[@danialyousaf6456]

So she has more dialogue after we defeat him ? The ending was incredibly vague even by fromsoft standards.

[@shadowcyberdemon8776]

You know how pieces of souless Godwyn became deathroot, what if pieces of souless Miquella become minor Haligtrees 🤔

[@anonomit8229]

@@danialyousaf6456No more dialogue options, we find St. Trina dead (head fallen to the ground) after defeating Miquella

[@gustavonomegrande]

​@@anonomit8229data mining shows that she HAD another cutscene post Miquella, sadly it is cut content.

[@morganasapphire1792]

Among the ruins of Unte you can actually find an unlit furnace golem and have a good view perched from above. Inside is a whole drake.

[@L_Zant]

You can light it with a big fire pot if you didn't know.

[@AngstUrnacht]

@@L_Zantthats one of the few puzzles I solved on my own and felt so smart afterwards lol

[@cwindsor46]

There are also 2 secret swords that can come from this location depending on if you have found the other places to activate it

[@samuelw01]

You can also jump through the crack on the other side with Torrent!

[@Christopherson2006]

​@@L_Zantfor real?! That's dope

[@UsedToBeRonin]

Due to datamining we know that Miquella's flashback model as a child has gold eyes of the golden order where his spectral god / adult form has gray eyes because he's cut himself off from 'gold'

[@DanielGarcia-rx3kt]

His eyes are probably Somber eyes like Somber Smithing Stones. Somber Smithing Stones are regular Smithing Stones that have traces of Gold drained of their color in the same way Miquella's eyes were.

[@vhalrougelarfouxe]

Its actually said in a Miquella's Cross that he divested of his eye. Not only that, when you wear the crown Miquella drops, you will have golden eyes

[@MiguelRodriguez-gd5ut]

What’s really interesting is that the design for his grey eyes is spot on for the digit used by the knights of castle sol who are also associated with godwyn ; will it’s a fact he cut himself of from the guidance of grace his eyes being tied to such a huge amount of unknown lore between the death knights/ eclipse knights

[@zirtoadam]

6:40 Miquella’s body does die because he sacrificed it all over land of shadow. We also get the text “God Slain”

[@Abyranss]

When you find the Miquella Cross that marks where he abandoned his eye, you can go back to Ansbach who reacts in surprise and tells you that Miquella's eyes are no mere morsel of flesh, but proof of his status as an empyrean. Seeing as how Ranni has one eye shut, Malenia has both of hers scarred over, Marika has the side of her face missing when we find her, and Melina, if you believe her to be the Gloam-Eyed Queen, also has one eye shut, it seems as though there's something notable going on with the eyes of all empyreans. Messmer also has one eye shut and some sort of deity inhabiting his body which might mark him as one too.

[@greenbean4422]

I believe it's related to the elden ring and Marika's domination When she dominated the lands between, the gold from Godfrey's eyes faded and she tasked him with more conquering until they returned Messmer was cursed with the serpent in one eye, mohg's crucible is overtaking one of his eyes, malenia is afflicted with rot in hers, etc They essentially all have been cursed by outer gods who wish to "see" what is going on in the lands between while marika holds it in a chokehold Instead of giving up the elden ring she grants its power to some of her children Messmer received a sacred eye, malenia received the help of her brother with unalloyed gold, and I suspect Marika granted more of her power to others as you see Marika runes scattered across some pieces of the land

[@apollyonnoctis1291]

I’ve always wondered why outer god influence is always tied to the eyes; hells, even the Frenzied Flame, with the Shabriri grapes actually being frenzy infected eyes , and frenzy always coming from the eyes, and even the lord of frenzied flame having their head replaced by a flame shaped like a giant eye. But then it hit me. *The eyes are the window to the Soul.*

[@GewalfofWivia]

Miquella abandoned his “hesitation” and his “love” at crosses. Of course he’s not so dedicated to compassion anymore.

[@bobertastic6541]

I assumed he abandoned his hesitation so th at he had the strength t o abandon his love, being st. trina. his love not meaning his ability to love but who he loved

[@zegamingcuber857]

@@bobertastic6541I don't know, there's a spirit nearby that says something like he divested himself of something he never should've cast away, so I think that might imply that he did actually get rid of his ability to love

[@bobertastic6541]

@@zegamingcuber857 well we never see anything saying ‘I divest myself of my alter ego’ and it’s implied that St Trina was his lover, so I would assume it means that

[@DanielGarcia-rx3kt]

​@@bobertastic6541Elden Ring actually puts emphasis on emotions and principles. Like the will hence the existence of the *Greater* Will. So, chances are divesting himself of his love means literally the capacity *to* love. Love is mentioned in several places in the game like with Rennala and Radagon, Ranni loving her allies (sans Seluvis), Marika calling her children "beloved," etc. This is why I speculate it's literally the capacity to love.

[@bobertastic6541]

@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt ok but why tf would the guy whose entire goal is a world filled with compassion, whocis famous for loving and accepting everyone, gonna decide to abandon his ability to love in the exact place that he abandons st. trina, then make no mention of abandoning st. trina?

[@Nope-ity-nope-nope]

Manus -> Latin for hand Metyr -> Meter -> Latin for mother Metyr = Manus Metyr = Mother Hand

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

"Mater" is Latin for mother, not "Meter". Meter is originally from a Greek word meaning "measure".

[@thekeeper1287]

I wonder what manus cellus means then (the last area you find ranni in for her quest where she kills her two fingers)

[@SteviaCookies]

​@@thekeeper1287 It's Manus celes, "celes" is the medieval form of "caeles". So it means "celestial hand"

[@jacquelineess1141]

​@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962"Meter" = "Μήτηρ" is an ancient greek word meaning "Mother".

[@Ixxlostinabox]

@@jacquelineess1141 Are ή and η translated both into "e"? Google says ή should be an "a" making it Mater, not Meter.

[@benchambers1439]

Imagine if radahn has a third phase where he just rips Miquella in half and combines gravity magic and blood flame fully

[@LoafofSourdough]

R: “Miquella, y’know what Godfrey did when he was losing?” M: “Uh, I’m not particularly familiar-” R: *Rips Miquella off his shoulders and slams him into the Spanish announcer table. The crowd goes wild, the Tarnished is spamming crouch, and Miquella is unconscious at the feet of the Spanish announcers looking like he regrets his choice of consort.*

[@ming45612]

I'd unironically love that. Radahn getting to fight as a man rather than his brother's puppet.

[@Beardymanlol]

Or just "Nihil!!!"

[@oneofthekindscarf8612]

I wish. Unfortunately Miquella's plan had finally made radahn his puppet that he wouldn't let go

[@RMeitzen]

That would've been incredible lol

[@Nemo12417]

Regarding the similarly between Miquella and Serosh, the latter had a separate existence as a Lord of Beasts before becoming Godfrey's advisor. My guess is the Two Fingers turned Serosh into a being akin to the shadowbound, meaning that had Hourah Loux prevailed, Serosh would have regenerated and turned him back into Godfrey. That would explain why Serosh casually let Godfrey snap his neck.

[@naiustheyetti]

I do not think so, considering none of the other shadows are so attached. i think Serosh was grafted onto Horah Loux, either physically or spiritually, since goddrick talks about grafting being a power from the royal bloodline.

[@SuperFizzah]

@@naiustheyetti It has nothing to do with grafting. Godfrey, as Hourah Loux was seen as too rough and barbaric to be considered a true Lord by Marika, and essentially had to "remove" that side of him in order to become the Elden Lord Godfrey we see in his paintings, etc. Serosh is the spiritual manifestation of that side of Hourah Loux, something he can't truly ever let go of since its such a big part of him. That's why it seems to still be attached, and why when Godfrey snaps its neck, it gets released and reintegrated into Godfrey, transforming him back to Hourah Loux. I forget which item descriptions state it, but its all there in the game.

[@naiustheyetti]

@@SuperFizzah I would agree with you if we didn't already get lore for serrosh. Serrosh was a real creature that had a life previous to horah loux, he was council to placidusax.

[@naiustheyetti]

@@SuperFizzah also he doesn't rid himself of his wild side, he uses serrosh to surpress his urges and to remind him of the oath he has taken to be a lord.

[@Nemo12417]

@naiustheyetti eh, Godrick was at best inspired by Serosh riding Godfrey. The grafting was different from whatever the situation was with Godfrey and his lion.

[@Ultimaniacx4]

The item is called Remembrance of a God and a Lord. So it must really be him. All the Remembrances say they were hewn/shaped into the Erdtre/Scadutree. Since nothing ever really dies then maybe they can be reincarnated in some way. Maybe by force of will? Kind of like how you eat Bayle's heart yet his sheer rage continues to try and return.

[@ALaz502]

Lyndell was definitely an imporant city pre-Marika's reign. If you overlap the maps, it's literally located on top of where the shadowtree would be.

[@jefftheindianchief8279]

The Roundtable Hold seems to predate every other surrounding structure in Leyndell, with a significant emphasis on Godfrey & the Crucible.

[@ALaz502]

@@jefftheindianchief8279 yup. And notice how the general Lyndrll architecture resembles the last area of the DLC definitely shows a huge architectural connection. Obviously modified greatly during Marikas reign.

[@kevinm.4846]

The location of the lands of shadow doesn't overlap exactly with the main map. There's a marker in the lands of shadow that tells you it's directly in the centre of the lands between. It's under that cloud that's directly in the centre of the main map

[@Ryxem34]

@@kevinm.4846 It is I think. We just don't have the height of everything compared to main map. But it should be !

[@joesheridan9451]

No the erdtree is exactly where the scaditree is. That’s explicitly stated and when you learn that pillar is the exact centre point of the ones between you can line it up. Leyendell is just north of the top of the shadow lands map

[@mohammedbaig9569]

Not me instantly killing the first kindred of rot I see because of PTSD from the base game 💀

[@SaHaRaSquad]

lol same

[@metarenegade]

I slaughtered their babies in Caelid and put a message that said "Time for revenge" outside their nursery.

[@santiagomoralesgarcia1802]

Can I revive them, I killed the one closet to the cathedral (he was buried in the ground)

[@dorienhamilton7883]

I started swinging as soon as I saw one but stopped after i noticed how tanky they were lmaoo 😂

[@kjnewell7243]

Same 😢

[@Serogath]

The first time a furnance golem grabed me it was raining and it's flames where smaller and i could see the whole dragon inside of him

[@SaHaRaSquad]

You can also see one of the dragon's wings when the golem is lying on the ground.

[@Zeke1460]

7:01 you say it never ends but we only have one single example of a person coming back from the dead once WE kill them. Radahn. That’s it. The only time. Mohg in the sewers is an illusion, not real Mohg. Same with Margit for Morgott. We only fight the real version once when we kill them. Miquella divested himself of his body. That’s why he’s see-through. He’s a god that exists as just a soul. And once we kill his lord (who he basically fused himself with) he dies as well.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

Technically everything killed before releasing destined death should be able to come back.

[@Tasorius]

And every random soldier in the world, for one thing...

[@sunlesssirris]

You can save Moore. In my second playthrough I warmed the kindred of rot being and never spoke to him afterwards until after final boss and he was still there, special dialogue too.

[@DonnyKanone]

what did he say? please specify

[@sunlesssirris]

​​@@DonnyKanoneSPOILERS FOR MOORES SPECIAL DIALOGUE. "I never change, always friend to you." "My Brood is no more. No one comes to visit, not Lady Leda, not Father Dane, not Sir Ansbach, not Freyja, not Thiollier, not the Hornsent. Where have they all gone?" "Thank you, No one comes to visit. Except you."

[@DonnyKanone]

@@sunlesssirris Wow!!! Man im so bummed he died. I felt so bad that he got made to fight he even wasnt using a weapon now i know its even worse! :....(

[@itzjustboris7395]

I feel so sorry for Radahn and mohg they both got screwed royally here, Radahn robbed of the peace we finally granted him and mohg robbed of his dignity by being manipulated and having his body desecrated

[@Tasorius]

People feeling sorry for the Lord of Blood... Next is the Dung Eater, somehow...

[@DeadlyNightshadeZ]

@@Tasorius Hey, Mogh did nothing wrong. His entire creepy thing was because Miquella literally brainwashed him into it. Originally Mogh wanted nothing to do with Miquella, but he used his power to make Mogh obsessed.

[@Tasorius]

@@DeadlyNightshadeZ It's interesting that everyone is now an expert on both Mogh and Miquella... In fact, they are exactly as certain about this as they used to be that Mogh is a creep. He is now 100% a victim, and Miquella is the worst person in the world. Interesting how people mindlessly accept the new thing and act like the thing before was never a thing...

[@Tasorius]

@@DeadlyNightshadeZ To say that he did nothing wrong, you have to ignore all the victims of Mohg's Dynasty of Blood who were abducted and forced to either be corrupted by his blood or die from it. It's also a cult of bloodthirst. Nothing as innocent as so many people here seem to think...

[@Nostradankus]

@@Tasorius "Interesting how people mindlessly accept the new thing and act like the thing before was never a thing..." Yeah, adults call that "changing their minds" and you should definitely consider it every now and then, instead of assuming your first interpretation is always the right one. Besides that, the accusations against Mogh were that he... "tried to share his bloody bedchambers" with Miquella, as per his remembrance. Which gives his supposed abduction of Miquella an explicitly sexual undertone. He's certainly no saint, but not any more "evil" than some of the other named demigods.

[@Kaptime]

People are still finding things now, like Quelagg just found that the Helphen's Steeple sword is a model of Messmer's tower and that and the Tibia Mariner's are in the same boats from the part of Shadow Castle with the Shadow Militiamen.

[@NeverUseAnApostrophe]

Never use an apostrophe to pluralize. The plural of mariner is mariners.

[@unknownbenefactor8029]

The manner of how Moore speak, he sounds like he is a bug or insectoid in nature. Idk... But he might be kindred of Rot in armor... He mostly speak very plainly and very quiet Thiolier is quiet too but his dialogue seem to be more complex than Moore.

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

Anybody else notice that Miquella, The Elden Twink has four arms? Seems significant, doesn't it?

[@mmyr8ado.360]

Three actually: a cross in Belurat says that he abandon his hand dexterous but in the cutscene his upper hand sinistral is missing.

[@typical_ID]

@@mmyr8ado.360 he abandoned both dextral and sinistral arms one in Belurat Interior Cross and the other in Storehouse Fourth Floor Cross

[@lynackhilou4865]

Probably imagery borrowed from hinduism to symbolize his newly acquired divinity

[@FiveTiger]

​@@lynackhilou4865not to mention the similarity to Ranni, who also discarded the physical but who, unlike Miquella, retained her doubts, and her love.

[@WorldBeater123]

So does Ranni

[@moricree5154]

Miquella doesn't have eyes anymore. He plucked them out as a sacrafice to turn into a god just like his arm or his heart

[@Michaelrice4199]

Have*

[@JLeviNow]

Would that mean his eyes are somewhere in the DLC

[@MaximillionPegasusJ.Crawford]

If that's the case, then why does he still have limbs?

[@ethandixon4257]

I thought he only plucked one eye?

[@moricree5154]

@@MaximillionPegasusJ.Crawford he doesn't look closely. He only has one arm the arms he holds onto Radahn with are spsctral and come from his hip. Don't ask me why

[@mindcake8811]

I think it's important to note the dragon head in the furnace golem is a drake head and not an ancient dragon. We know from the base game that drakes are more animalistic and violent than the ancient dragons. From Bayle's lore we also know that the ancient dragons have a grudge against the drakes as well. It's very possible the furnace golem was set upon by a rogue drake and not the other way around but I'm not sure if any faction would claim the attack for any political basis

[@UnclePunchalot]

Btw, godhood in the Lands Between sound like a trap and conspiracy of cosmic Lovecrafian beings. The gods of elden ring are like mediums that chanel power of enteties beyond our reach, in a sense they are agents of said beings be it Formless Mother, Outer God of Rot, Frenzy Flame or Greater Will. Outer gods give you power but in turn influence world to their liking. For example Marika is a god, but power she wields is not her own (It's Elden Beast- agent of Greater Will, I guess Greater Will is like leader of a patheon). I wonder whos power Miquella borowed (probably Greater Will)?

[@Ultimaniacx4]

I don't think Marika was ever actually a god. I think there's a difference between a Lord and a God. The Tarnished never becomes a God. It's always Elden Lord or Lord of Frenzied Flame. Marika and her Empyrean children had the capacity to become Gods but Marika turned against the Greater Will when she shattered the Elden Ring, probably disqualifying her of godhood which is why she was imprisoned. This is why Ranni "Slew her empyrean flesh", to sever the control of "that thing", her Two Fingers and the Greater Will. Miquella did the same thing casting off his physical form. But Ranni was trying to journey the cold loneliness of space, separated from greater powers. Maybe Miquella wanted Radahn to challenge the gods on his behalf to ascend.

[@kGb1783]

@@Ultimaniacx4 She was a god though. Marika ascended through the gate of divinity and became the host of the elden ring.

[@UnclePunchalot]

@@Ultimaniacx4, Btw, Rani was also communicating with otherworldly entity - Moon (I sense Bloodborne vibes). Perhaps the Moon influenced her decision to sabotage the golden order (now I see similarities with the Moon Presence).

[@jefftheindianchief8279]

Does that make us the "Outer God" of our Tarnished? Our will is done through an avatar of sorts.

[@UnclePunchalot]

@@jefftheindianchief8279, lol, classical cosmic horror plot: We were lovecraftian entities all along!

[@core-nix1885]

I think Miquella's closed eyes are supposed to reference Buddha, similar to his crosses referencing Jesus. They're symbols of his apotheosis. Edit: Freyja and Ansbach both refer to Miquella's crosses as his "footprints" which is an overt reference to Buddha.

[@FaeQueenCory]

Thanks for this. Too many people forget where this game came from.

[@TheSmolPrince]

​@@FaeQueenCory From Japan? The dominant religion is Christianity there. Regardless, Elden Ring has many different symbols from many different religions.

[@oshikiri.nikko-desu02]

I must not be Japanese because Christianity is definitely NOT a dominant religion here in any way, shape, or form. 😂😂

[@davidnewhart2533]

​@@TheSmolPrince The dominant religion is Buddhism bro. Even then, Japan doesn't really have a dominant religion.

[@TheSmolPrince]

@@davidnewhart2533 Yes I accept that I was wrong on that note, I did look up the numbers and there's only around 1m practicing Christians in Japan. However my point still stands, the game doesn't take from any one religion or doctrine. It has everything from Norse tones to Abrahamic tones, and even some similarities to ancient canaanite religions. Elden Ring takes from a multitude of Cultures and beliefs, but the truth is that the actual Japanese Shinto/Buddhist references in the game are minimal.

[@jacksmythe2187]

5:40 Oddball thought, maybe the reason for all finger morphology is because the first contact someone from the lands between had was touching the shooting star with their hand and it copied that into all its future forms and children?

[@bigguy7353]

It's not morphology. It's symbolism.

[@user-zp8kj2cl9g]

​@@bigguy7353 yeah, but abstract thinking is too difficult to a lot of people, give him some slack.

[@teagancombest6049]

Look at the Sistine chapel ceiling, the "hand of God" is an incredibly common symbol for divine intervention. Also think there is a connection to the beastmen of farum azula "gaining 5 fingers"

[@SpellboundSpectre]

@@user-zp8kj2cl9gif there is one thing a fromsoft player shouldnt be, its pretentious. Shut up

[@rooislangwtf]

@@bigguy7353 the children are the two fingers, fingercreepers etc. so that's morphology, not symbolism

[@Markus___]

Miquella's ring, the gesture, is him holding onto his consort.

[@zegamingcuber857]

I think it's also representative of Miquella's Crosses, which are likely also in the shape of Miquella's Great Rune before it was shattered

[@Markus___]

@@zegamingcuber857 Yes, also, why does St. Trina ask of us to kill his other self? Isn't her comfort and kindness as well? Is he really Miquella ''the'' kind?

[@loonzoldick]

@@Markus___ ever heard of a mercy killing?

[@monadoboiz9778]

@@Markus___ I think St. Trina explains herself pretty well. Divinity would be a cage for Miquella. A caged divinity is beyond saving. He ascends to Godhood in the exact same place his mother did. And look at all of the tragedy that befell her. And seeing as St. Trina represents his love, the request comes from a place of love. There is no maliciousness involved, she genuinely thinks that killing him is the good ending.

[@Markus___]

@@monadoboiz9778 Agreed, there's no definitive answer wether or not it is kind to act in such ways, the ethics behind his purpose are always ours to ponder on.

[@ALaz502]

Also, the map overlays VERY nicely with the Lands between. The big hole in the Hinterlands lays EXACTLY where the erdtree's stump is. Also not, that the tree isn't exactly where it should be on the map in relation to its stump. Reason being, they would have had to cover the divine tower bridge if they put it there. But it does overlap nicely with the big tree stump underground (where the erdtree actually sits in the world)

[@ultimagamer1000]

Also if you go to the supression tower (on the way to jagged peak), its tablet on the top of the tower says that its the center of the lands between, not the lands of shadow

[@NoBody-hw6se]

The realms of Shadow were part of TLB but I don't think they fit directly in the middle, but rather stretched out from the broken section in the east.

[@ALaz502]

@@NoBody-hw6se yeah it does. It actually does. Keep in mind parts probably shifted a bit over the years. And that marker would literally be in the center if the land of shadow was in the middle where the cloud is Dont looka gift lore in the mouth. Accept that what is written out plainly is what it is. Sometimes thats what it is. I mean hell, the Scadu Altus area would literally connect right to the Altus Plateau in this configuration

[@chasekeylime9717]

it really doesn’t though. if you look very closely the borders don’t match at all.

[@ALaz502]

@@chasekeylime9717 yeah it does. If a whole land got sheared it woudnt be clean cut. Tons of stuff would fall into ocean, etc. Certain areas in Lands between couleve very well been underground as well. The most importamt landmarks line up perfectly. Dragon Peak is on Caelid, the whole of Caelid would've been underground at some point sure. But the location tracks with the dragon presence. The giant hole near Marikas village, EXACTLY where the stump of the Erdtree is underground. A ton of other small details, bit that's one. At the end of the day, this was all one large continent a LONG time ago.

[@mariothane8754]

I suppose in a land where death has a different purpose and meaning, the foragers aren’t as much of an issue. Rot is bad in the context of it taking away from life but when rotting occurs in the dead, it’s a way to feed new life.

[@halcyon62277]

I had a thought. Miyazaki said the DLC was "the size of limgrave". Its sort of become a well known joke now as the dlc seems to be a lot bigger than limgrave. But, what if Miyazaki was talking about the map itself in relation to the base game map? I see people trying to overlay the map to the base game map but what if we scale the dlc map to the "size of limgrave" and try to fit it?

[@sknuttel]

What I find very interesting is that the item description on the Boar Knight Boss (I forget his name, Gallus or something?) States that he and Radahn were friendly rivals in their youth, and you have the death knight armor describing knights who served the prince of death. As well as linking to his defeat and befriending of the dragons as each set of the death knight armor increases dragon cult incantations. Which means Mesmer and the pruging that he went through as well as the potential burning of the erdtree probably happened well after Godwyn was killed and Radagon was already 2nd elden Lord. Also the dragons were probably enemies of Mesmer because of the lore of Bayle attacking Placidusax, of whom were still probably on friendly/neutral terms. That attack instigated dragon communion and made mordern dragons enemies to pretty much everyone

[@michaeljohnston8891]

I like to think that the Drake Warriors were a particularly fanatical group within the Leyndell Dragon Cult. It seems their first members were actually the Draconic Tree Sentinels, and that after the War with the Dragons, Leyndell and Farum Azula were actually on good terms

[@noirangel6416]

Kill me...🥲 I utterly annihilated the sleeping Pest with Lion's Claw not realizing its friendly then killed Moore.

[@TheMagicienWorld]

The revelation that his "eye" was not a slit but Marika's Rune's shape was truly a mindblowing moment for me

[@rkmugen]

3:26 There's that one saying that goes: "the eyes are the windows to the soul". Since Miquella's eyes are always shut, no one can ever truly know his intentions, except for himself. I'd probably also bet that not even St. Trina would know either, despite her being Miquella's other half. You look at Marika and Radagon, and it could be argued that Radagon wouldn't have known that Marika had intended to act on her desire to shatter the Elden Ring, until it was already too late.

[@JamesCourse66]

The white hands around Radahn are just Miquella's enscorcellement. Miquella is there in person, now in his improved golden flesh no longer a child but a full-fledged god ready to take over the Lands Between. We kill them just before they'd return to the Lands Between and exact their plans.

[@Nemuri13]

My favourite and most mindblowing moment was when Miquellas rune broke and his spell broke. As soon as this happend I revisted all NPC. Their changed dialoges gave me goosebumbs. All the implications with Mogh and probaly Malenia.

[@nicolasleiva6636]

It was Marika's plan all along, every single thing we do is Marika's will, we all thought that playing the main game but the dlc explains it, the Greater Will abandoned the Lands Between long before Marika ascended to godhood this is confirmed because we find out Metyr the mother of fingers and daughter of the Greater Will was abandoned by the god long ago, which means every single action the fingers make does not come from the guidance of the Greater Will or any god, therefore the grace that guides us can only come from Marika.

[@WAR3600]

But Marika manipulates us the entire game to kill the Elden Beast and end the Greater Will influence

[@nicolasleiva6636]

@@WAR3600 yeah that's what i'm saying

[@dreamz1417]

But the intro of the game says the shattering was the reason for abandonement by the greater will. I highly doubt cutscenes straight up lie to us, the shattering was just "long ago" too.

[@shyguygamer8699]

The narrator speech sounds like folk tale imo

[@zacharyboucher7855]

​@@dreamz1417Read Metyr's remembrance and the staff description. It says that she lies broken and abandoned, it also says she is eternally waiting for a sign of grace. The greater will abandoned everything way before the ring shattered

[@sebk3640]

Gotta love how KZbin just did notify me at all about this vid. Not just notification, even in my subscription feed it's not there, I was luck to have been recommended it.

[@fadeddragon123]

I think a really underrated disc is the one on the flame of messmer key item. Which basically confirms that Melina is indeed a daughter of marika. And likely in fact the house eyed queen

[@todd3143]

miquella's eyes are gold in childhood, but grey after ascending to divinity

[@PlatinumAltaria]

I don't think the current layout of the Land of Shadow was ever a part of the regular world. Rather the Land of Shadow is a dumping ground for parts of the world that were removed. This makes sense given how the areas of the map seem to be stacked endlessly on top of each other.

[@DefiantYeast0426]

This was my thought as well! The Shadow Lands are so weirdly laid out I couldn’t help but think that there was no way it was natural.

[@andrsl1]

Yes yes yes! I see people trying to overlay the map so many different ways, but it never really fits, they always have to cut certain parts, re size some and say some stuff fell in the ocean or smth, its all a big stretch. Biggest proof for me is the ancient ruins of rauh, they are literally from limgrave, we see the architecture all around the land, also there's a big chunk of land missing close to where main limgrave connects to weeping peninsula, but if you overlay the maps Rauh is very far away from Limgrave.

[@RageJ]

I think we've definitely killed Miquella or as much as Miquella can be killed. Miquella has divested their body and emotions at every single cross point. So when he came out of the divine gates to buff Consort Radahn I think he was basically binding himself to his consort. So when we kill Radahn we kill Miquella. It would be like killing Ranni's puppet I guess.

[@meyes1098]

So why are people assuming that the shadow realm's locations have to have been in the lands between exactly as they are now? Think about it, if Marika just wanted to seal off places that she hated, what are the chances that ALL of those places just so happened to be exactly next to each other in a very neat, island like formation? Isn't it more likely that she took a patch from the north, one from the east, one from the west, etc. and one from right in the middle (the pillar, there's a cloud there on the lands between map), and when she transferred them from the lands between to the shadow realm, they kind of got sewn together? Indeed, many of the locations in the shadow realm don't have a proper transition and literally look sewn together.

[@pedrocarnelos703]

Something i find interesting about the dancer, is that she shares most of her face data with Tanith So its not incoceivable that both tanith and the blue swordsman come from the same cultural background

[@hinkelstein1494]

Well considering there was a war agains the ancient dragons and they later made peace and even worked together, it would make sense that the vile drakes are also foes of the Erdtree. They did Placidusax a solid and purged some drakes while they did their own genocide.

[@LostInTheFloatingWorld]

I made a video last year (The Eye Theory of Elden Ring) that went into that huge stone tablet you mention at 9:00 which uses such similar footage as yours that it made me do a doubletake 😅 it weirdly took me forever to line the camera up properly for those different panning shots of the stone tablet and I’m sort of relieved someone else has gone through it as well

[@oup6009]

Fire Giants and Dragons appear in the Furnace Golem because Messmer's crusade happens after the War Against the Fire Giants. We know this because Messmer was friends with Radahn who was only born after the Birth of the Erdtree and therefore after Godfrey was at the Mountaintops. Plenty of time to get some Modern Dragons and Fire Giants in there.

[@leezus7875]

I think we don’t see Miquella’s eyes as a parallel to the fact that Malenia’s are sealed shut from Scarlet Rot

[@kayhaich]

Miquella has had his grace taken from his eyes amongst things he gave up. His eyes were gold but are now grey in the model.

[@multiverserift]

All the Empyrean's eyes are either weird or somehow obscured, so we don't notice. All of them have at least one eye hidden. Messmer (one shut, one Marika'd), Melina (one shut), Malenia (disguised by helmet, then rot), Marikaa (gone, disguised as old-statue optics), Radagon (simply missing), Mohg (horns), Morgott (horns), Ranni (one shut), Miquella (closed)

[@literallynomadic78]

​@@multiverserift half of the characters you just listed aren't Empyreans

[@multiverserift]

@@literallynomadic78 empyreans and empyrean-adjacent

[@MasterSonicKnight]

there is a good reason y Godfrey and Serosh are portrayed differently than Miquella and Radahn in the remembrances. Godfrey and Serosh are different independent individuals acting in harmony, Serosh is there to hold back Godfrey's bloodlust (afaik), and Godfrey can willingly... "remove" Serosh when he feels he needs to. Meanwhile Radahn in there has been reduced to nothing but a puppet (a brutal puppet that can rip people's guts apart in 0.1s, but still a puppet), while Miquella is there as the puppet master. On the 2nd phase of both fights we're fighting the true nature of our foes, Godfrey the lone 'WARRIOR', and Miquella the puppet master and his puppet, Radahn is nothing but an extension of Miquella's power. Thus the remembrance is also showing the true nature of who we've just defeated.

[@Louse1021]

I find it funny to think that the forager brood created alcohol as a rot potion 😅

[@Ak-kd2zt]

Miquella also has 3 arms? 2 are spectral and 1 is physical He got rid of his left arm at a cross which is clearly missing in the fight, He also got rid of his Eyes right? What is the significance of this stripping of flesh process and why didn't he just rid himself of his entire body like ranni but only specific Chunks of it? I think that's a huge hint

[@ASquared544]

I think Miquella’s spectral hands parallel less Sarosh and are moreso meant to parallel Ranni’s spectral other half, her head and face specifically. The fact Ranni also has 4 arms further leans into this.

[@humblebumble203]

Kinda wish there is a 2nd dlc, so much potential.

[@geordiejones5618]

I'm glad they're moving on. They reached the limits of this particular formula and I wanna see new iterations that diverge like Bloodborne and Sekiro did.

[@nickhard7615]

Idk, I've definitely had my fill of Elden Ring after playing that shi

[@WretchedRedoran]

@@nickhard7615 Finally beat the last boss fight in SotE, my thoughts exactly. At least I finished him off with a palm-blast straight to the nutsack.

[@TRACTOOOOOOOOOR]

There's so much to work out in this DLC. This will be our age of plenty.

[@dshearwf]

I don't think much has changed if you overlay the maps. It completely fits into the middle, both trees overlapping and actually giving rise to the idea, that the divine towers in the lands between maybe have something to do with it. The "Pillar" in the dlc area is about in the middle of them all, maybe acting as some sort of conduit for whatever Marika did to phase it? We also have the dragon area overlapping with caelid and farum azula above, tieing together their stories really well as well. I definitely think this is not as much of a mystery as people make it out to be.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

As far as I know the divine towers predate almost all civilizations in the Lands Between. Tarnished Archeologist made a great video about them.

[@dshearwf]

@@SaHaRaSquad still checks out then. the pillar could have been built at a later point in time exactly for that reason to harness their latent power, if they had any, to do the phasing.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

@@dshearwf The reason for the pillar is suppression of "all manner of Death" as the gravestone says. It's just unclear what exactly that means. Maybe its absence from the Lands Between is what made the spread of deathroot possible.

[@Austib_]

The final fight would have been SO much better if it had been one phase of just Radhan and one phase of just Miquella. That would clear up the whole question regarding why he also dies when we beat Radhan. As it is now the final fight we’ll likely ever get for Elden Ring just feels like a worse reskin of the Lorien and Lothric fight. Kinda disappointing honestly

[@dennisheiter7283]

6:53 you just put the Gothic 2 base Game music in it and I love it !

[@joaohenriqueneuhaus2023]

Sorry to spoil the Elden ring series, but I think it would be a great addition to your dark souls 1 collection a video about the titanite demons/slabs. There's so much interesthing aspects involving it. For instance, notice the presence of a titanite demon in Darkroot garden, 800 years in the future long after the time the choosen undead traveled Oolacile and found(Or maybe missed?) a treasure chest containing a titanite slab right there at Kalameet's arena. I would like to add the curious use of lightning as the classic ranged attack of the demons, which make me remember the weapon upgrade chart which shows lightning is actually the only "elemental" type of ascention which uses standard titanite chunks, nor red/white/blue. And now leaving the demons aside, there are other curious correlations between the slabs and their magic, like the blue titanite slab found in a chest at the small pound at the beginning of the Darkroot garded of the past(DLC), which later in the current timeline, in the exact same spot, in the exact same chest, you can find the enchanted ember.

[@TheBlaringBlue]

Interesting video! A couple of notes from me: 1. Are you sure Metyr predates the Elden Beast? Wouldn't it make sense if they arrived together, on the same star? After all, if you were going to affix a ring to your body, where else would you put it, besides your fingers? 2. Miquella's and Godfrey's boss fights do, indeed, have parallels, but we most certainly kill Miquella. The on screen text after winning the fight reads "God Felled" or "Slain" or something like that. Also, we only kill Miquella in spirit. We don't need to kill his flesh, as he has already divested himself of it at his various crosses in the DLC. 3. Quelaag has a brilliant video up now regarding the suppressing tower and its implications as to what the land of shadow is and how it functions!

[@mdcrumpler]

The scadutree did come before the erdtree after all, and Marika planted the Erdtree to supercede the Scadutree's influence and enshrouded the land of shadow. I do think there's a reason the Scadutree symbol is on the Erdtree

[@SaHaRaSquad]

It didn't, because it's the shadow of the Erdtree. A shadow cannot exist before the real thing. If the DLC's name isn't enough, the avatar's remembrance literally and bluntly says "The Scadutree is the shadow of the Erdtree"

[@gghs9162]

​@@SaHaRaSquadSure but what exactly does that mean? The scadutree is the concept of disorder, but does that mean that when Marika raised the erdtree, she threw that part of the lands between under the "shadow" of the erdtree? Is that how she veiled it away? I've always wanted to understand that.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

​@@gghs9162 The description says it's "Born of dark notions that bear no sense of Order". So the Erdtree represents the Golden Order, and everything that would make that order impure is represented by the Scadutree. And my guess is the Scadutree came to be when the shadow realm was separated from the Lands Between. Marika was a big fan of hiding anything away that isn't a shining example of her Golden Order. Though I'm not sure about the nature of those "dark notions" and from what perspective they are considered dark.

[@WAR3600]

​@gghs9162its confirmed Marika planted the Erdtree?

[@gghs9162]

@@WAR3600 Never explicitly mentioned, but: an affair from which Gold arose and so too was Shadow born. If Shadow was born and the scadutree is the epicenter of shadow and the erdtree the epicenter of gold seems possible. That plus the minor erdtree planted on shaman village, like a little symbol of something greater that marika left to show the village how far she'd come.

[@EvanDunnery]

Did y’all know scadu is a Romanian word that translates to decay so it’s states the word decay tree or decaying tree

[@bittsea117]

i think the scadutree is likely that "first world tree" you would mention in the elden ring timeline videos, and any symbol for an unknown world tree can probably safely be fitted into the scadutree's domain, which could help line up when exactly marika seperated the lands of shadow from the rest of the lands between

[@mmyr8ado.360]

It doesn't fit the descriptions of the Crucible, the Great Tree or the Helphen at first glance, though.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

No, the game itself says the Scadutree is the shadow of the Erdtree, so it cannot possibly be older than the Erdtree itself. See the description of the scadutree avatar's remembrance.

[@Night-Lord]

Miquella abandoned his body, no? In that case he wouldn’t have a body for us to worry about killing. He handled that part for us

[@mt2r-music]

Why is Metyr underwater? What are these tubes in her arena? Also have we ever seen her arena in some unused concept art? I couldn’t find any but I kinda remember seeing something similar before.

[@SM-cq1mm]

Gives a new meaning to try finger, but hole

[@tsaageotrimm]

Messmer's eye sealed looks exactly like Marika's rune!

[@Raziel537]

Its literally Marika’s scar seal

[@ansurarks]

The Forager Brood is probably just a different tribe/brood of the pests.

[@brucepa2350]

In the cinematic trailer, we see Marika using Gloam eyed queen's eye/crux to make part of the shadow realm from the land between, veiling it

[@MarcusIaoFong]

Someone has decrypted Miquella’s mod which shows he has grey eyes in the final battle but golden eyes in the last cutscene after defeating Radahn.

[@gghs9162]

The last cutscene? So, his grace returned to him after killing Radahn?

[@YamiAi]

​@@gghs9162that cutscene is a flashback

[@gghs9162]

@@YamiAi ah...thanks for the info

[@_ikako_]

Ok so my thoughts on the Realm of Shadow/Suppressing Pillar theory: The Realm of Shadow *is literally* in the centre of the Lands Between, and the Realm of the Erdtree is the *entire* lands between. The Realm of Shadow was once in the middle of the 'ring', until Marika hid it from view to hide Messmer away. There are massive drapes hanging over the Scadutree, which could very well be hanging off the divine towers. The Suppressing Pillar is part of the 'set' of the divine towers, but with it being hidden away, they can no longer fulfill whatever purpose they once served, as they are no longer whole. The Scadutree is also the literal shadow of the Erdtree, and likely manifested in that form once the realm was hidden by Marika - the Erdtree's influence was so great that it even manifested in a separate realm. The dragons from the Scaled Peak also explain the presence of dragons in Dragonbarrow and Caelid, as the two locations were likely once physically close to one another. When the realms were separated, some remained on the Scaled Peak, while the rest were stuck in Caelid, and eventually retreated to Dragonbarrow after the rot took hold. This would also explain the position of the Shadow Keep, as it likely served to protect the southern entrance to Leyndell. The walls extend to the coast, as there was always water there, but the land behind the Shadow Keep was the one small land bridge connection in that area. I'm not sure how much weight this next theory holds but it seems to hold up: Belurat is known as the Tower Settlement, yet I don't believe that the tower is Enir Ilim, I believe that the whole city once sat intwined around a divine tower, and Enir Ilim is also part of the Tower Settlement. Its position seems to line up with the divine tower of Liurnia when you change the scale of the Realm of Shadow map, with the area behind Gaius' arena fitting nicely into the divet below Leyndell. When the Realm of Shadow was hidden away, the divine tower stayed but Enir Ilim was hidden, leaving it suspended in the air, though likely still supported by the tower in some metaphysical way - likely because they still technically occupy the same space, just in different dimensions. The divine tower was likely tied too strongly to the Realm of the Erdtree to be hidden, and also serving to hold the drapes, but Enir Ilim was tied deeply to the Realm of Shadow and the people who inhabited it, so the two were split. This theory is obviously unrefined, and might not even be remotely accurate, but I think there's enough evidence for it to hold some water.

[@ZZWWYZ]

i'm pretty sure Miquella already dropped his eyes to ascend

[@mrtengu5303]

huh Mesmer's eye is literally Marika's soreseal

[@aditghifari5039]

Radahn : I do not want to become your consort!!! Miquella: but you got your own Serosh ... Radahn : DEAL!!!

[@heptagramm]

7:04 on that note I think messmer's armour said something about his snakes and how they *will* still accompany him. It says will even tho he's definitely dead

[@silentsorrowbane]

Gothic 2 Music. That nostlagia hit deep

[@proudlarry8225]

Blind Swordsman was not alone, they had the Blue Faerie. What was the Blue Faerie?

[@magicmirrorgaming]

I often see it said that the Blue Faerie was supposedly just a metaphor for the Siofra River--and it's true that 'siofra' can mean something like 'fairy'. But. It feels too convenient, I think... So many things in Elden Ring are obscure and mysterious and out of sight. We may not see any fairies in the game. But what do we find in the DLC? The Ancient Ruins of Rauh, which the Hornsent studied, are apparently a place where elemental "sprites" were once used as a means of power, function, and convenience. The sprites seem to be actual beings, and connected to the elements. So it's not hard to imagine that the blue fairy perhaps refers to a type of water elemental sprite that would have been more commonly seen in the Blind Swordsman's day? This is just my crazy theory, though.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

@@magicmirrorgaming 99.9% of people don't know what siofra means without googling it and yet you say it's not obscure enough?

[@nibulsheep8214]

in the Unte ruins, you can spot an extinguished furnace golem, and there is in fact a drake inside of it Dragons were also enemies of the Erdtree before the whole Godwyn ordeal

[@witar.]

About miquella closed eyes - he kinda tore them out and left under one of his signs in game. Think it's the same sign where you first enconter Ansbach. Eyes are considered place in human body where grace exists in game lore. Miquella separated himself of everything that connected him to old order including his eyes.

[@lorisceleste1860]

Miquella is also missing an arm, giving him three arms instead of four who are often a symbol of divinity and in Buddhism are related to the reaching of nirvana, supreme detachment from everything mundane. His missing arm could potentially be the one we touch to enter the DLC.

[@filipmajewski8382]

I thought “I am Malenia, blade of Miquella” was bad, but “Embraced by MESSSSSSSMERS flame” is not forever branded onto my brain

[@kayhaich]

Its not marikas scarseal its a marikas rune. You see this as a new item and its with the occultation iris, which is what messmers actual eye underneath the rune seems to be. He literally pops the rune in front of you for a quick 80k.

[@DonutSwordsman]

Why do you think it's an occupation iris? Also underneath you can see his eye is a swarm of small snakes as like a pupil

[@camerongraymusic2089]

That inclusion of Abzu OST was just sublime🙏🙏

[@salvahazana7629]

3:15 There is a video on youtube that shows Miquellas eyes during the memory cutscene. They are shown to be grey and pupilless, an indication of his abandonment of his great rune and his grace. 5:58 Miquella abandoned his flesh. Therefore he now only exists in spirit, much like Ranni. Which is interesting because they both have 4 arms.

[@DefiantYeast0426]

The flashback post boss, he has golden eyes. His adult form in the boss fight is the one with dulled, grey eyes.

[@wvykaine6157]

Like how the shadow of the erdtree ad pops up for this vid. Had to watch it all the way through out of respect.

[@ndlawl6273]

Just realized the Gothic Soundtrack in there - a man of taste, you are.

[@mikehat7652]

I find it interesting that the fire knights in the storehouse and black keep have very similar moves to the dancers of Ranah

[@Navelia]

We obviously kill Miquella. It literally says "God Slain", the Remembrance is called "Remembrance of a God and a Lord" and through it, we can get one of the incantations Miquella used during the battle. So he's dead dead

[@Hugo_Tate]

miquella's eyes are gold when hes little. you can see his character model in a video from the last scene after you beat the dlc. his eyes in his form during the boss fight are colorless. I guess if I had to say a color, id say it looks gray.

[@Em022]

i think him saying a curse upon thee is him reflecting on how he feels about his relationship with his mother.

[@Logan_Longcor]

We can see miqellas eyes on the model in the final cutscene, they're gold but also kind of like, hollow

[@ArantirFo1]

Gothic 2 soundtrack in the background was a very good choice ooo 😎🔥

[@_ikako_]

I believe that the Elden Beast is the golden order's imitation of Metyr. Since the Greater Will abandoned her and considered her broken, it would make sense that it would try to replace her with something. the Elden Beast would make sense as that replacement, they do share a similar appearance, though the elden beast is more elegant and 'refined', compared to Metyr's more organic look. Their arenas are similar too, with large lakes surrounded by tall pillars stretching off into the distance. Also Metyr is just as annoying to fight as elden beast, with plenty of attacks where she can't be attacked with melee and you're forced to just dodge aoes, but that's hardly lore related.

[@wammert]

I always knew the shrimp popes were good guys. I felt so justified using Shrimpman as my main summon

[@AllramYT]

For some reason this video did not show up in my Subscriptions feed :O But I am glad I found it none the less.

[@guyinapandasuit2691]

Big big spoiler warning: I was under the impression the shadowlands were another dimension. But I don't think that's the case. Because you are fighting mohgs literal corpse. And miquella is very clearly in a ghostly form. I think this area is located in the cloudy spot in the center of the base game map. (Vaati's video mentions this) There are other factors like Merkias village and the foragers being present.

[@alvinkey3468]

There are no good guys in the land between, only those with the grit to survive - shadow chaser

[@noamias4897]

Thought I'd mention that this video does not appear in my sub box, and it is not the first time this has happened with your channel.

[@kevinfortsch]

I find sometimes my sub's just show up as the first thing on my feed when I open yt. Could be that.

[@ghosttheslapper2589]

I can confirm there is a full dragon inside the furnace golems if you manage to jump over the top and look down there is the dragon in the centre

[@sharinganproz]

I cannot help but wonder that the shadow tree is just the old erdtree after it was burned - if you look closely at the shadow tree its actually two trunks, and only one trunk produces gold sap. The one thats straight and looks like depictions of the Erdtree in certain reliefs. The other looks identical to a sealing tree.

[@KawfeeKun]

I feel as if miquella divested himself of his eyes so that the outer gods would not have sway over him seeing as the outer gods so frequently use eyes for things

[@reyrapids63]

I know the joke is that "every character is the gloam eyed queen." But i legit think Messmer is the GEQ rhe same way Marika is Radagon and Miquella is St. Trina. Evidence: *There is now a confirmed trend of Marika/Radagon children having gender flipped alter egos. *The black flame and red destined death seem to linked, some theories saying that black flame is just a weakened version of destined Death that lost its color. (Similar HP drain effects) Messmers flame is very much red AND black, (although no HP drain) *The Godskins are often tied to snake imagery, like giant corpse/shed skin in the temple of eglay or the Godskins Nobels long reptilian tail, or the Godskin apostles stretchy serpentine torso. *The swaddling cloth could be shed skin, even used by a younger Messmer as his mother held him. and the concept of demi-gods shedding their skin like a snake could explain the origins of the godskins attire. We even see Messmers snakes turn white in his second phase as they shed their skin. *The Godskins have religious ranks and implements of torture, fitting Messmers inquisitions role and aesthetic. *The Godskins are said to be the results of fleshy homunculus experiments, and we know Messmer was researching ways to cure the melded fleshy pot Shamans. Its not a stretch to see that research used to create the Godskins from discarded flesh. *Messmer is linked with Melina as her sibling. conveniently he is already missing his left eye, the same one that Melina opens to reveal its purple color. Did Messmer give her his eye as a backup plan? Granting her the power of the GEQ should the next elden lord be untrustworthy? *Messmer was clearly loved and trusted by Marika, and we know that the alter-egos can act independently and even counter to the wishes of their other selves (Radagon containing Marika, St. Trina asking us to stop Miquella) and perhaps the reason Marika banished Messmer was to keep the GEQ from returning, even sealing his eye with a soreseal. *The spiral shape of the Godslaying Greatsword is very similar to the Hornsents holy spirals. It makes sense if the GEQ rebelled against Marika, that she might align with the Hornsent as a temporary ally. Ironic that the Hornsents symbol of Godhood was inverted to kill the very gods they worshipped. In conclusion: For all the answers given to us by the DLC, i noticed it odd to have basically no mention of the GEQ, a character speculated upon like St. Trina, who DID appear in the DLC. I think the GEQ is already in the game, and the simple fact that Marika and Miquella have alter egos, i can't help but wonder if Melina, Messmer and even Melania ALSO have alter egos we dont know about... Thinking about mysterious men tied to Melania... Was the blind swordsman HER alter ego? Who is Melinas alter ego? It's and out there therory but i think it has legs. The Abyssal serpent just feels too out of nowhere to NOT be tied to something else.

[@31Rexitron57]

Did any of the Shardbearers even die when we defeat them? Godrick is just a torso and a head, what’s left of only him after all that Grafting. Rykard is left only with his face, the only part that was not the snake. The amber egg probably cant create new lives anymore but can still reborn the tarnish anew. Malenia left behind that scarlet flower, she might comeback after sometime as indicated by her incantation. We now know what happened with Mogh and Radahn as Miquella took them. Miquella is probably actually dead tho, he shed everything away including his Great Rune to become a God and is not part of the Golden Order anymore. All thats left of him when we defeat him is his memory.