1000hp+? | EV motor technology is getting WILD!

[@hpa101]

What EV setup are you modding and/or using for a conversion project? ⚡Dive into the fundamentals of EV world with instant access to your online lifetime access course: www.hpacademy.com/courses/electric-vehicles/ 👨‍🔧 Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/ev101y TIME STAMPS: 0:00 - EV Motors 0:13 - Development 0:27 - EV Limitations 0:37 - EV Vs ICE Power Delivery 0:54 - Peak Power 1:06 - Gear Reductions 1:16 - Permanent Magnet and Induction EV Motors 1:31 - The More You Know, The Faster You Go 1:51 - EV Motor Breakdown 1:57 - Stator 2:17 - Rotor 2:30 - Radial Flux Rotor 2:58 - Axial Flux Rotor 3:21 - Magnetic Field Positioning 3:39 - Design Compromises 3:50 - Base Speed 4:00 - Constant Power Region 4:10 - Below Base Speed 4:25 - Inverters Covered Separately 4:37 - EV Final Drive 5:13 - Torque Vectoring 5:34 - Lesson Recap

[@SinsAscendant]

Sasha! The perfect man to explain the performance side of the EV world! Super happy to see this happen.

[@aussienoble]

Sasha is the perfect edition to HPA, especially in the EV space.

[@fulybuilt]

Cool to see Shasha on HP Academy!

[@JollyGreenGiant5025]

Couldn't think of a more appropriate person to discuss this topic than Sasha. Awesome stuff!

[@CouchBuilt]

Great to see you putting this out there. Mixing this side with the internal combustion is the best of both worlds.

[@flyonbyya]

I think Koenigsegg has patented a combination of axial and radial motors called “raxial”

[@hpa101]

If it's anything like their Freevalve tech that is unobtanium, no one will be working on them any time soon. Like Freevalve, sure is interesting though. Cheers for mentioning, I'll pop a link below for anyone else interested - Taz. www.koenigsegg.com/quark-emotor

[@shadfallfan]

@@hpa101 There's a guy on KZbin who made freevalve for a harbor freight motor and a Miata in his garage for not a lot of money.

[@Qnickel27]

So glad to see Sasha coming to HPA. This kind of content has really got me considering buying a full course taught by Sasha to learn how the Tuning of EVs is becoming viable

[@johnbarker5009]

I know this is High Performance Academy, but IMO the EV transition would be a lot better served if the industry focused less on 1,000hp vehicles with 500mi range and more on 300hp vehicles with 350-400mi range. Everything would be smaller, lighter, and cheaper. Especially the batteries, which will most appreciate "adding lightness."

[@hpa101]

Not quite 300hp (well short) but small EVs exist. Here's one of the teams commuters//dog wagon/local MTB run van: instagram.com/p/CeGTwJZr-X2/ Far from a performance car though that's for sure, I hear ya 😂 - Taz.

[@XFDADX]

I feel like current EV car manufacturers lock their system so much you can't really push the available tech to its limits (like with a conventional ICE). I have an EV witch I'm sure could do well beyond what's factory settings, yet no one touches it or there isn't any info available...

[@brunonikodemski2420]

One does not need a forward/reverse gear set either. Multiphase motors are capable of both directions, but may have a small improvement in efficiency in one direction. That does not matter at all, if creeping slowly in reverse. The same reduction set can be used for both directions. You do need a Parking Lock or "emergency brake" as a method of blocking the car into a static condition, since the electric motors usually have very limited holding torque when not energized. During motoring, much of the braking energy can be recuperated back into the battery system, depending on the complexity of your controller. Regeneration below about 1/10 of the high speed is usually not worth the complexity, and usually does not provide enough braking force to actually skid or lock the wheels. As such, some kind of primitive mechanical brake is usually required, but its design can be very minimal, and can be made about 1/5 lighter and smaller than IC engine brakes. Maybe only used below 20-mph or so, and slowly in crawler traffic. If electrics fail, it would only needed to be used once or twice in its lifetime, if panic braking from highway speeds. Regenerative or dynamic braking can pretty much lock the wheels at those speeds, and if the electronics are working you can lock the wheels into a complete standstill or do a skid-reversal without applying any mechanical brakes at all. Our company and I did these designs in the early 70's thru 80's on 3-dimensional underwater submarine drives, where mechanical braking is impossible. All 3D forces have to be accommodated via direct propeller driving through the water. Fast Reversal was demanded by the Navy to avoid entanglement with underwater cables, ropes, or other debris, and save several missions from being trapped at large depths. That engineering is already well documented in the literature, and we published dozens of paper about how to do it. Should be used on all modern EVs.

[@zeitgeist888]

Always like HP academy but super excited for more EV content and courses.

[@m.b.82]

I'm just waiting for someone to make a bolt-on regenerative set up that runs on capacitors alongside the existing ICE.

[@CadDesignSolutions]

Great job bringing in Sasha to speak on this EV stuff. His 350 is mind-blowing.

[@rotorblade9508]

the higher the rpm the more voltage you need to apply to keep the torque constant but at some point you reach the maximum rms voltage it was setup for and torque will start to go down. the current will remain constant so the power will remain constant because it is proportional to the voltage and current. At this point the heat generated is based on power and efficiency and if you want more power you would need better cooling. at some point you could break down the insulation if the voltage is too high so that’s another limiting factor

[@BillyBoblovesthedirt]

Or you could do what Porsche did and install a gearbox to maintain peak motor efficiency as speed increases. Or have different speed motors to run independently as required depending on speed. A bit like a two stage turbo. A small turbo for lower engine speeds and a larger one for mid to peak power. Easy peasy Japaneasy, or Getmaneasy, or Chinaeasy. Or maybe even Teslaeasy. Bring on the Solid States or whatever new chemistry presents itself. Exciting times. By the way I’m assembling a fully remachined warm cast iron V8 tomorrow with all new internals so you can swing both ways and appreciate state of the art engineering until it’s affordable and fully developed.

[@beniwasa]

Sasha! You are a legend with your z!

[@InIMoeK]

That Z is so rad! Love to see an update about that

[@Popes_Projects]

Does the course have much on hybrid applications like Kels and how one would go about tuning/implementing that or is that just too specific and high level?

[@mdh00000]

so length of cord is limiting factor for EV ...

[@hpa101]

In the same way the length of the hose on your petrol pump is limiting I guess - Taz.

[@mrrolandlawrence]

wow this is amazing. for packaging you could almost direct mount this to the rear diff without having to have additional 90 degree bends to fit the motor. Im really into cheap lightweight EVs at the moment. They are much harder to do as they require engineering simplification. Top of the line is easy when there is no limit to budget. You can always spend your way out of a situation. Racing is something else obvs :)

[@andrewmcleod9312]

And that is exactly what some company's do. Particular with larger vehicles like trucks and buses.

[@phillyphil1513]

5:26 - see video of the 4 motor Lotus Evija Hypercar suddenly going 90 degrees into the hay bales last month at Goodwood.

[@andrewmcleod9312]

Thank you so much for this video !! Bloody gold.

[@hpa101]

Glad you enjoyed it! More to come 😎

[@andrewpienaar4522]

The main limitation was not realy the motors. The limitation was the electronic output stages of the Speed controllers. VSD's) Not only were old precision Speed controls the size of a doghouse but they also limited the design and technology of the actual motors that could be used.

[@sardengineering]

two words, thank you!

[@TheJensss]

Love it! EVs would drastically drive down the cost and technical difficulties of racing and high performance builds in the future. Making the hobby way more accessible for more people than today. The only thing that is limiting this is software locking of products. Everything should be open source!

[@dylandesmond]

My vortech v-15 centrifugal supercharger was running off a me1616 electric motor at 168v until it accidentally overboosted at 1500rpm engine rpm and snapped a few 12mm headstuds and ripped out a few threads... at 14.3mm headstuds now... No turbo lag, instant spool. Full boost. That's where it's used best... Electric and petrol combined.

[@xXYannuschXx]

Porsche will make the first road car to feature the "hybrid turbos" currently used in Formula 1. Will be interesting to see how the technology transfers to road cars. I highly doubt ICEs will go way in the next 20-30 years (all EVs make losses at the moment and they are still too expensive for most people).

[@BandaMapper]

In theory EVs should be lighter, in practice, they tend to be about 20% heavier than Gasoline-powered cars

[@patx35]

It's a battery tech issue, with EV battery packs generally over 1000 lbs.

[@yummyhershey5902]

@@patx35generally speaking, EVs could be objectively better in almost every way if batteries weren’t a limiting factor. Their heaviness comes from the batteries; their range and charge rate is limited by the batteries. Their biggest safety concern is a result of the battery composition. The primary reason they’re so expensive is because the batteries are. It’s truly their biggest limiting factor.

[@kayzrx8]

@@yummyhershey5902 Charge speed is not just limited by the battery but the source, to fast charge an empty 80kwh pack in 30 mins requires a source that can supply 160+KW peak and that for one Bay. The cells cooled properly can handle this, but supplying this much power is a challenge on the grid.

[@kayzrx8]

An EV with a battery cannot be lighter when compared to a gas engine when accounting the fuel source. you can't compare an engine to an electric motor without comparing the weight of the fuel source. Until the Specific energy metrics of Electrochemical cells rises considerably, it will never come close to that of a Gas engine and gasoline. Specific power, maybe but the car needs range . you could make an Ev with a small pack but the Range would suffer and power metrics would have to be compromised if you want the pack to last.

[@BandaMapper]

@@kayzrx8 The BMW M5 is twice as heavy at the BMW I3, everything depends

[@ZoneKei]

Oooooooh I've been waiting for an EV course! EV drift car, here we go!

[@exvils]

Where we can order few of those? Need it Overnight delivered 😆

[@kurtdobson]

Now add 1000kg of batteries and try to find a Supercharger station and sit there for an hour…

[@hpa101]

Some race tracks are actually installing Supercharger stations otherwise guys racing bring their own charging solutions just like we bring our own barrels of E85 to the race track 😎 - Taz.

[@DahkaShades]

very interested in this... let's MF GO

[@patx35]

Will you ever do a course on EV battery and motor tuning? We're currently looking at restromodding a Honda IMA system, with a custom lithium battery pack, and likely a zombified OEM inverter. It would be nice to find a tutorial on selecting the appropriate battery configuration, finding the motor's max current and voltage capacity, adding thermal sensors to the motor, tuning the motor phase timing, and other things when modifying EVs.

[@conradsealy9603]

Whereas theres no doubt as to the capabilites of electric motors and EVs, without the raw sound of an ICE and the feel as the gears shift will always bring more enjoyment to the driving experience. In short,EVs can be fast but boring.

[@KillJD]

I love tech. I'm a auto technician/mechanic and I've been holding off on learning EV because I love my ICE lol. I'm building a 1000whp car and an EV can never replace the experience of an ICE, but it has it's own pros and advantages, and I'll learn them so I can keep up.

[@fraserwright9482]

I found a lot of my heat management skills in tuning cars have been transferable. I built a Renault Twizy with a Mitsi PHEV rear diff (100hp) and my son built the battery using a VW e-Up. We wet jacketed the battery using a Prius water pump, The cooling and heating of the motor/battery/inverter and a HVAC from a Suzuki van. We run the radiators in two end plates on the side of the Twizy, like the F1 version. This is the same process as what we do in our S14 drift car, having the a/c cool the charge cooler and cabin. The diff cooler and electric pump to the rear mount radiator. I would look at EV motors for turbos and torque fill in the same chapter as boost management in a modern tuned car

[@DanMarcelino]

Ok so where do I get one of these pancakes and how much???? I've got a great little sports car that needs this in it 👌🏼

[@fraserwright9482]

Coaxial motors are used in heavy octo drones. This is where the tech comes from for high quality, high output motors.

[@xTinBenderX]

Thank you for sharing this information. I've been wanting something like the VIA Motors Hybrid, where they use a small engine in the stock location to run a generator and a motor to a transfer case to power a standard 4x4 drivetrain. Using a small diesel engine, like the large Edison semi truck and the smaller required battery pack and adding a supercapacitor bank. This would give both performance of an EV with range and efficiency of the diesel and the supercapacitor would take some of the strain off the battery pack and help with high load power output and generation. As stated by Edison Motors it could legally be run off of Red diesel at a much cheaper rate since it's considered an EV. How to save taxes on an electric vehicle. kzbin.infoCpbYHLov_SM?si=xbted0eQyq9604Qk

[@farncoisbisson7737]

Ontario plates.. you guys are in canada ?

[@TML34]

I think Sasha had an EV Nissan Z. It was on speed academy KZbin channel.

[@hpa101]

Sasha Is based in (amazing!) Canada. He presents this course but Mountain Pass Performance is his business there 😎 - Taz.

[@Vgk36]

Is there a academy course that involves converting my ice drift car to electric? Lol. But seriously I want to drive not LS swap and turbo my build.

[@RBGgermanKX250F]

Omfg yes. Sasha is the best. I've been wanting to do something similar to Kels for a while. Just obviously not as good or fancy 😂

[@BLoudermilk]

Do you mean to tell me the HPA EV course is finally ready? And Sasha is involved? Sign me up!

[@hpa101]

Yup! I had such a brain fart in my excitement to get the first piece of EV content out I didn't even link it either 😂 www.hpacademy.com/courses/electric-vehicles/ Use coupon code KZbin50 to get $50 USD off 😉 - Taz

[@matthewvarnam4302]

I love the sound of my V8 it doesn't get any better then that.

[@filepz629]

📺👀👂

[@bigjdm5460]

Currently the more power an electric car makes it seems the heavier it is. Or it’s a single seater

[@fraserwright9482]

Having a bigger Li-ion battery means you use it as a heat sink, the same for a motor as a larger motor is more efficient with thermal mass than a smaller one. The chemical part is also important, you can't charge and discharge a battery cell, hence the reason for multiple cells as this takes time in a Li-ion battery as regen is more juice than plugging it in. Super capacitors offer limited battery life, but can recharge and discharge quickly, like a coil pack does on your car. Having the battery size and motor balance to your use is important. How long you race or drive is the thing, it's why hybrids - so a motorbike engine helped with an EV is so fascinating

[@yummyhershey5902]

These days we have incredibly power dense electric motors (for example, Koenigsegg’s 800hp, 40lbs electric motor used in the Gemera) but battery tech just cannot keep up yet. Adding more batteries to the pack increases the power output of the battery, so it’s necessary for it to keep up with the power level. Thankfully, we are seeing improvements in battery tech every year. Tesla’s batteries are quite a bit more power and energy dense than they were 10 years ago. Solid state batteries have finally hit the market, but not in any electric vehicle yet. It’ll definitely get interesting in the next decade.

[@user-kw7zb8qw1u]

Energy level salt 🧂🔋 batteries n kilowatts and amps voltage ⚡ power

[@ivegonemad]

Hell yea! is there going to be a hybrid course? Or just EV course for now? Hell yes, hopefully soon will be seeing more hybrid race cars in grassroots racing

[@suntzu6122]

EMRAX will sell axial flux motors to civilians

[@HandSolitude]

EV swaps will keep tonnes of beautiful classics alive. Check out Damien Maguires Toyota Hybrid transmission conversions. There are nearly limitless of these available for next to nothing.

[@authentic4225]

Can this motor be bought lol

[@BandaMapper]

9.28/10

[@InIMoeK]

I'm still toying with the idea af having an EV assist on my evo to run a bigger turbo, and not loose low down consistent torque

[@kayzrx8]

2 stage turbo , less complexity

[@InIMoeK]

@@kayzrx8 Thats going to be a crowded engine bay

[@kayzrx8]

@@InIMoeK Not if done properly, Its an I4 engine A sequential setup can be very compact.

[@RakanAlsubaiei]

whats the name of this motor 0:02 ? looks like the koenigsegg motor.

[@hpa101]

It's a Magelec Axial Flux (Pancake) motor. 2:58 explains a little about them. Not sure about Koenigsegg, pretty sure they do their own thing that is a cross between radial and axial, but you'll find Magelec motors in Formula E, ETCR applications and more 🤘 - Taz.

[@shadfallfan]

Also similar to the yasa motor which Mercedes Benz now owns.

[@captainobvious9188]

I don’t know why a hypercar manufacturer haven’t done an all out series hybrid yet. You could have a high output ginormous turbo tiny engine in combo with a high peak output battery and weigh substantially less than the huge batteries they are using. Yet have instant throttle response, traction control, torque vectoring, etc. and be able to refuel in a short time.

[@kayzrx8]

Koenigsegg has done this

[@captainobvious9188]

@@kayzrx8 They’ve done parallel hybrids, but not a series.

[@kayzrx8]

@@captainobvious9188 The 4 door Koenigsegg Gemera can operate in this mode as full ev and using the small Inline 4 engine engine as a range extender, or it can use the engine to directly power the wheels. The battery pack on the car is very small. Its a combination of both depending on what mode you are in

[@captainobvious9188]

@@kayzrx8 They have an EV mode, but it isn’t the focus and isn’t the performance mode like all the rest of the hyper/super-cars. I’m talking about like a Nevera with most of the battery substituted for a big turbo genset.

[@shadfallfan]

I'm ready for the Ariel Hipercar to come out with their cosworth range extender catgen

[@Jani_Ikävalko]

And exactly in what production car you have single 1000hp ev-motor? None. Max you have is usually 300 - 400hp where Lotus Evijas Williams Engineered EV motors do 500hp. Still quite a far away from your 1000hp dream. I think regular tuners build their ICE's with ethanol quite a cheapily higher horsepower ratings than these.

[@hpa101]

They don't do it (ICE) with a single cylinder either though... 😉 You don't have to like em, they're just something different with their own pros and cons noting we're not exactly looking at perfection with where the ICE is at - Taz.

[@Jani_Ikävalko]

@@hpa101 They're called hybrid cars if you want to add ev motors benefits to ice-cars. many supercars already utilizes them anyway, no need to compare

[@exvils]

@@Jani_Ikävalko yeah.. instead of doing awd conversion to your average honda, just slap some twin bad bois in back with some small (capacity) but with high C rate battery pack

[@Jani_Ikävalko]

@@exvils It's not that simple really at all. It's an electrical and engineering nightmare. ICE is simple yet compared to anything relating to EV motors and subsystems.

[@kevin_delaney]

I want to build an EV motor....or two. Would you be up for helping on one more Z? 🤔 I'll reach out with details if you're interested.

[@yankeedoodle7693]

Electric motor technology has not changed since its inception. Magnetic forces attract and repel. The motor control technology however has come quite far. Now if we could just avoid government involvement

[@madrx2]

Sorry but a 100hp Corolla will still have more street cred than a 1000hp Plaid.

[@hpa101]

You don't have to like em. A Plaid isn't really the best/pinnacle EVs can offer though 😂 - Taz www.hpacademy.com/blog/103-is-this-the-future-of-track-cars-podcast/

[@E-Z_Gaming]

lol no. Stay in the Stone Age Fred flintstone

[@nick58585858]

​@@madrx2 speak for yourself. Only thing that matters to me at the end of the day is the gap between you and the car in the lane next to you. Just build it yourself instead of letting Tesla build it for you

[@promx96]

@@madrx2 sorry my horse/donkey will still have more street cred than cars 🤣

[@Malficion]

Look up Sasha's 350Z and shut up. 😊

[@mnypit]

Can’t wait for the futue😂😂😂 need an electrical engineering degree and a computer science degree to “work” on your extra large golf cart. The future looks like shit! No real gear head is driving an EV.

[@fraserwright9482]

I actually found having an EV has made my ICE even more extreme as anything under 30 minutes I am driving the EV as I can trash it straight off the bat. It's no different to Barry's who thought fuel injection or turbos is cheatin. The guy selling me his '66 impala telling me I needed to roll a cigarette and get it drawing well before I drive otherwise it would stall. I am over that stuff and so are other punters

[@OtisFlint]

Have you built a modern ICE turbo car? You need to be a plumber, electrician, machinist, welder, and computer scientist. Working on a Tesla is child's play compared to ICE vehicles. Modding one on the other hand, at least in terms of the drivetrain, is not.

[@itdobelikedat4202]

not interested in EVs

[@OtisFlint]

yet here you are

[@samsonacc8081]

Your loss

[@itdobelikedat4202]

@@samsonacc8081 not a big one

[@88conquesttsi]

Have you ever tried one?

[@neiltitmus9744]

I would have a hybrid or electric but not at the moment with my financial situation