#106

In this episode we want to have a look at the miniVNA Tiny to find out if this device can be used for all measurements we have done in our series on baluns. The miniVNA Tiny can be used between 1Mhz up to 3 Ghz.

[@felixmeyer-g9p]

Hello A much awaited video about this device as there wasn't much information floating aroun

[@felixmeyer-g9p]

Hello A much awaited video about this device as there wasn't much information floating around

[@johnmc1010]

Very informative video. I appreciate the time and effort that you took to create and produce this video. I purchased a miniVNA Tiny a while back and it's been a great tool to fine tune the HF antennas that I use for my QRP rig. Watching your video several months ago was a major factor in my purchase decision. Thanks again!

[@TRXLab]

Thanks for feed-back John, glad that you like the little unit...73

[@joopterwijn]

I must say, your english is improving per video! Keep up the interesting work!

[@TRXLab]

Hi Joop, good to hear that. It is more demanding as one think to do videos like this in a second language. Thanks for comment 73

[@kd5ozy]

I agree with zis. just kidding, keep up the good work

[@sethkristopher6259]

You probably dont care but if you guys are bored like me atm then you can watch pretty much all of the latest movies and series on InstaFlixxer. Been watching with my brother lately :)

[@malikkash5863]

@Seth Kristopher Yea, I have been using Instaflixxer for since december myself :)

[@bjuler]

At 23:49 you are suggesting to use the "Short"-plug to measure the "Open"-calibration scenario. In the video you seem to use the "Open"-plug which seems to make more sense. Is this possible? In this case it might me useful to add a text-notice to the video as it otherwise might be confusing.

[@n.h.7372]

Terrific video... hope you have more ! At video mark 51:28 you were able to place a 2nd marker or more..... I just got mine today and it seems to be working well and I am learning more each time with it, but I cannot seem to add a 2nd or 3rd marker - how did you add the extra markers? The other thing.... I did not realize how much info I was missing out on until I got this new mini-tiny. I am older here approaching my 60's and been using basic equipment / calculator since I was 14 years old and got my first ham license - boy technology has changed over the years.... but to have a visual response to see what is really happening is great! Please advise on how to place multiple markers.... no matter what i do, just cannot make it happen. Thanks !

[@n.h.7372]

I finally got it.... have to hit the shift tab and mouse click.... N.H.

[@DonDegidio]

Peter, Thank you for taking the time making this demo video. 73 WB3BJU

[@TRXLab]

Hi Donald, you are welcome..Thanks for stepping by 73

[@hankhamner3671]

Great video! I hope you have another video to explore more of the miniVNA features.

[@TRXLab]

Thanks Hank but no only this video...

[@pa4tim]

The variations are not temperature related (I hope because that is not a good sign, it does do something but it should not bne a big thing)) You are chasing a read haring. It comes because you use an unknown cal kit without data. Like the open, the noise finds its way through the unshielded cabinet so the cap adds nothing but capacitance and that really decrease the performance because you do not tell the vna what the specs of that cap is. You need to have that dato for all calkit parts if you want to have good results above 500 MHz and not get results that only look good. You need to calibrate at a known ref level, your load is a "long barre"l, the rest is short, you must compensate that by telling it to the vna. Best is to use a female and a male kit, and good cables. You also need a through connector if you use cables. Use sma savers on the ports, sma connectors have a limited number of times you can screw something on them using the correct torque (and a torque wrench). And that is very important in your case because it looks like you use much to much force. Enough to make a top quality cal kit decrease to the level of a Chinese knock of in one use ;-) After cal use return loss and phase to check things, not impedance (Z, a scalar analyser or SA+TG uses Z because they do not measure phase). Better is a smith chard and some aiorline You want a return loss better as 20-25 dB over the whole range. There is a test you can do to check calibration, it is called the T-check from R&S. Measure S11, S12, S21, S22, save it as SP2 and use the T-check formula in a program that accept SP2 files (if the vna does not have a custom trace option. IIf it has a custom trace you can do it without SP2 saving direct while measuring) For things under 100 MHz it does not matter much but above can make results useless. By the way, some baluns, diplexers and tuners are only doable as 3 port measurements because you short one of the paths short because both grounds of the vna are intern connected Just some tips. For the newby's in vna's. I have made a series of pdf tutorials for vna use specially for beginners. www.pa4tim.nl/?p=1594 For the advanced users there are 3 good books. The free impedance handbook from keysight and 2 a bit expensive commercial ones. VNA's can do a lot but NEVER perform better as the calibration. Even a 250k costing R&S will not perform better as your vna using the same unknown calkit. (but not the other way around, yours will not work as well as the R&S if you use the ultimate call kit on both. In that case the R&S can use its full performance. If you use a 51 ohm resistor instead of 50 ohm without telling it in the cal files, it will, after cal , measure 50 ohm as 49 ohm. But above a few hundered MHz the distance from the ref plane, paracytic properties as capacitance and indutance will make a huge difference and can make your test results totally unusable. Fred, pa4tim

[@TRXLab]

Hi Fred, I can't disagree very good addition to my video! You are right a VNA can't never be better as the used cal kit. You are describing the lab standard and that is totally right but in many cases not really needful for a HAM radio shack. If comes more to lab work no question fully agreed. Your tutorial on you web site is excellent so thanks for the link this is highly recommend to everyone who likes to deep dive into this issue. Thanks for comment and explanation Fred!! 73

[@tpmbe]

Excellent review, thank you very much.....I enjoyed this

[@131melbourne6]

Hi i always enjoy your videos i have just got a minivna v224 and having trouble finding the software for it do you know where i can get the software thank you any help would be greatly appreciated Tom prosser Australia

[@TRXLab]

www.knietzsch.com/amateur_radio/ham_miniVNA.htm

[@131melbourne6]

@@TRXLab Thank you very much very happy 🙂

[@glaros0]

Thanks for the review Peter. By coincidence, I bought miniVNA Tiny last week after watching you using the VNA on your tutorial on the Balun design. Indeed, I've noticed that for accurate measurements it's best to perform the calibration at around 53-55 celcious when the Tiny has stabilised. I am saving the cal set on a file, so I won't have to repeat calibration every time. But, as a check up, after warm up, I am always connecting the standard 50 Ohm load prior to first measurement to assess the accuracy just in case. I wish I had a frequency counter to perform a frequency calibration as well, but I love this VNA a lot! Also, I would like to let people know that there is an Android app (BlueVNA - with 1000 points cal accuracy) that allows to connect Tiny with cellphone or tablet, it has worked on my Samsung J5! 73, Kostas.

[@TRXLab]

Hi Kostas, Glad that you like the miniVNa like me. Yes a friend of Mine is using it on a Samsung mobile works Petty well. Thanks for Feed back. 73

[@dogastus]

Thank you for your extensive and precise review, really useful.

[@TRXLab]

Thanks for watching and feed-back 73

[@serendipitousbliss6548]

I was looking at purchasing a MiniVNA Tiny. I saw they recently released what looks like a new version. The miniVNA Tiny Plus. I couldn't find anything that outlines what is different with the new model. Do you have any information ?

[@martinbeveridge3204]

Excellent video ......Thank You Very Much

[@NooteboomElektronica]

Very good review, your video answered all my questions I had about this device. Definitely gonna buy one and hope to receive it before Chrismas! Greetings from the Netherlands and thank you so much. 73

[@TRXLab]

Thanks Rolf for your feed-back glad that you like my video! Hope you will get it for x-mas. my best 73

[@mikesradiorepair]

Great review Peter. Another nice addition to the bench.

[@TRXLab]

Thank you Mike! Yeah looks like a nice addition. Thanks for comment 73

[@davideisenberger6197]

Happy New Years Peter! Regarding the Tiny VNA unit, can it be used to measure the common core as you have shown with your spectrum analyzer and the 10 turns on the cores to make sure they are useable as you have shown? Finally.. will you be doing a 9:1 Balun show soon? Thank you again. 73's de K8KEM David from Ohio.

[@TRXLab]

Hi David, HNY! Yes the miniVNA Tiny can be used for exactly this tests as shown in the video. Thanks for watching 73

[@davideisenberger6197]

Thank You again Peter for a most valuable and interesting video! 73 de K8KEM.

[@TRXLab]

Thanks for feed-back David 73

[@javacup7579]

just to confirm this, the miniVNA tiny supports the smith chart? no special additional software needed?

[@TheRadioShop]

Nice review Peter. I like to have one of those but so many other things I need to get first, like a new spectrum analyzer, new signal gen ect. Maybe one day. Thanks for taking the time to do this my friend. I always enjoy your videos.

[@TRXLab]

Hi Buddy, yeah you are right it is a challenge to keep the lab actual and it is not cheap. Step by step.. you will manage it no hurry. All the est my friend and thanks for stepping in! 73 bro

[@wj5000z]

Hi, does length of cable connected between DUT port and antenna is important? Have you tested it on higer frequency (70cm or 23cm band)? Thanks for great video and 73, SP3OSP

[@TRXLab]

You always should keep the cable as short as possible. And yes I have used the device on 70cm and 23cm as well. It is working just fine 73

[@JohnFT3414]

I wonder if you have ever owned or used the DG8SAQ VNAW3E analyzer? It workss from 1Mhz to 1.3Ghz. I'm interested in the how well the miniVNA TINY works from 500Mhz to 3Ghz. It should be an improvement?

[@TRXLab]

Yes off course I know the DG8SAQ analyzer and it is a very good peace of equipment. The dynamic between 500MHZ up to 1,3GHZ is around 65-70 db. In that area is the DG8SAQ a bit better. But the tiny fully usable for our purposes. Thanks for watching 73

[@felixmeyer1972]

Leider verstehe ich den Anschluss an das Hausnetz des Ecat SKLep nicht. Type of Energy Input AC oder DC?

[@TRXLab]

yes

[@technos123]

Peter a great demonstration of the miniVNA TINY. I may put it on my Christmas list though. Robert.

[@TRXLab]

Hi Robert, thanks. Well yes that is a nice Christmas present .^) .. 73

[@SirMo]

Thank you so much for providing this review. I was really curious about this little VNA.. as it's not a piece of equipment I would use often, and I think this might do the job instead of the more expensive stand alone units.

[@TRXLab]

Thanks for feed-back, glad that you have a use for the video. 73

[@testboga5991]

Is there a version that also works for 5.8 GHz stuff?

[@toddanonymous5295]

Peter, you just sold another miniVNA. I think the company owes you a commission . Something that would be handy in a future software upgrade would be an audio tone output that varies with parameters such as swr. Another great video. But we are not surprised as all of your videos are great. Thanks for all you do.

[@TRXLab]

Thank you Todd, glad that you like it. But be assured I have not sold the unit and I don't get a cent for this review. I have completely paid for my set and I have no contact to the company. 73

[@paulmecca9741]

Thank you for your review on the mini VNA. It is now on my "wish list". By the way, I was in Munich years ago and I can say that you speak English very well, but maybe it is because I had 1 year learning the German language in college about 100 years ago, but I don't think so. Thank you again.

[@TRXLab]

Hi Paul, thanks for the kind feed-back and thanks for watching 73

[@dennisqwertyuiop]

great video, now if I buy one I know who to ask questions Because you the Pro,, thank you Peter

[@TRXLab]

LOL, okay no probs :^) Thanks for watching 73

[@varnamq3]

Hello A much awaited video about this device as there wasn't much information floating around. Can you please let me know when you made the filter test, what was connected to the DET port using the RG308 50Ω cable. I need to test a RF amplfier using this device. The amplifier has 27db gain with a peak output of 27dBm power, can I use this device to test the amplifier with a suitable attenuator as it can only take 10dBm or 10mW

[@TRXLab]

Hi Krishna, thanks for feed-back. Yes you can test your amp. But you need to put 30db attenuation in between. 20db at TX output= DUT and 10db in front of the DET= RX input. Then it will be no problem. Hope that helps 73

[@varnamq3]

Thanks for your reply. Can you let me know whether it is possible just to use the DET port alone to measure the amplifier output using this device? i.e can I use a different Tx source to the amplifier - as I have a Tx source where I can set the output to -10dBm - with this I will be able to get away by using just a 20dB attenuator. or is it a must to use the device's Tx mode for it to function

[@TRXLab]

Hi Krishna, well basically yes but as the clock signals are not synchronised you may get funny readings. 73

[@PapasDino]

Well, there goes my pocketbook! For folks in the U.S. HRO has them for $579.95 with a bonus $20 coupon that is valid until August 31st. Thanks for the review Peter I think this is potentially a good upgrade from my DG8SAQ VNWA2 which only covers up to 1.3GHz, and most especially if the Mac software is truly viable. 73 - Dino KL0S

[@PapasDino]

Ordered mine today after downloading and trying out the Mac version which appears to work FB under the Yosemite OS; we'll see how well it interfaces with the Mac and worst case can use it with the PC.

[@TRXLab]

LOL, yeah that is how it goes, Dino...But for the money a neat little unit. But the DG8SAQ VNWA is defenitely not a bad unit. Uses TCXO as well and has a good dynamic rate...Thanks for watching and comment! 73

[@TRXLab]

That was quick Dino. I'm really curious how it compares to the DG8SAQ unit...

[@nigelsookdeo6880]

Can we use this to do the common mode test when testing the baluns?

[@TRXLab]

That is correct!

[@nigelsookdeo6880]

@@TRXLab if possible can you do a video using the VNA to do common mode test?

[@wntu4]

Hi Peter. Can you explain briefly how a Rig Expert 170 with the Ant software and this compare in terms of capability?

[@TRXLab]

Sorry David I have no Rig Expert on hand so I can't compare it...73

[@TheConstitutionalGuardian]

rigexpert.com/minivna-tiny-a-few-experiments/

[@martinsvaco883]

Thanks for very informative video. It would be great if you could make another miniVNA video with some measurement examples. Something practical as you did in your excellent videos about baluns. Best regards Martin

[@TRXLab]

Thanks Martin 73

[@sciensoriasarl8632]

Is it possible to interface the miniVNA TINY to a custom software? I want to use this instrument with my existing software. I just need to retrieve the real and imaginary parts to my software. I have seen that the interface is based on FTDI device, that is a good point. However, I don't know the data protocole. Thanks for your help.

[@TRXLab]

Go to the mini radio solutions web page as far as I know it is open source. Hope that helps 73

[@larryk4mu240]

Hi peter, Very interesting review. I may have to add one to my bench. Thanks for the video, very helpful. Looks like it would be very useful piece of test equipment, and affordable. 73

[@TRXLab]

Hi Larry, yeah for the price it is really a neat unit. Thanks for watching 73

[@lolsborn]

I bought one of these. It would not calibrate at all. Mini Radio Solutions provides no support for these devices. There is an old yahoo mailing list, but it's private and MRS doesn't bother even approving new users. So if you get a working unit this seems like a good deal, but if you get a bad one or have any questions you are out of luck. If you are in the US you are better off buying a clone off Alibaba because they are not only significantly cheaper, but if you get a bad one you can send it back and Alibaba will take care of you. I bought one from a US reseller and they required me to drive an hour across town to return it to one of their brick and mortar locations. Then they charged me a 15% "restocking" fee to return it. Outrageous.

[@n.h.7372]

Ok, one more issue..... I connected the coax loop for "Transmission" test. Calibrate > create > read loop test and gives graph and finishes, but cannot save or update - not sure why. Help !

[@n.h.7372]

I feel dumb here.... tried it again and this time it worked and I saved my files. Wondering if I have some hic-cup in the program. I have been watching my temperature too. Been running for about 2 hours. Started at 51.8c and stayed up to 950 samples and rose up to about 52.7c. Near 1,000 samples dropped to 50c, and now back up to 51.5c. Seems all within range but not sure what the drop from near 53c to 50c (127F to 122F), so I guess those few degs is nothing.

[@TRXLab]

Al right glad that you was able to get it managed.. Thanks for watching 73

[@rogeriorodrigues4527]

Congrats friend... so nice video... thanks a Lot.

[@TRXLab]

Thanks for watching

[@ovidejesus]

Can you use MiniVNA TINY for mobile duplexer tuning

[@TRXLab]

Yes no problem

[@ЕгорДементьев-ю4ж]

good day Sir!, i have same model but in metal case, unfortunatelly it has hardware problem in DET line, i found desyroed chip and change it, could You please give me advaise, how i can protect the port in future?, if You have shematic diagram, could You give me please?

[@TRXLab]

You shoud contact the guys from mini radio solutions. They are very kind and helpful! I do not have any diagrams..sorry

[@iprogramplus]

i am not reaching the approximate 50 deg operational temperature, i barely reach to 43 deg after very long time, is this ok?

[@TRXLab]

My advice is directly contact the vendor they have a very good support...73

[@iprogramplus]

thanks, when i run single scan i get two curves green and blue? thanks

[@TRXLab]

yes you cant choose this option with the software. 73

[@daleaferrrier]

Could you post a source for the cheap calibration kit?

[@TRXLab]

wimo.de/minivna-network-analyser_d.html scroll down the web page there you find the calibration kit. 73

[@pa1izr]

can you use the miniVNA TINY as a spectrum analyzer?

[@TRXLab]

No not possible 73

[@pa1izr]

Thanks 73

[@martinborman4195]

I don't know about how you downloaded the driver, but search as I can, the CDM21218_setup.exe file can't be found on the site? ??

[@TRXLab]

Hi Toni, it is here www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm use the executable file on the right hand site. If you download it you get a zip folder. in the zip folder is a exe. That's it... 73

[@martinborman4195]

Thanks, Peter. Did do ahnd have now the driver. It was all a bit vauge this end. By the way, worked a JA and a JG station both on 17m First time ever. Happy as a piggy. Can now go and die happpy. 73

[@IrreverentSOB]

Calibration at full bandwidth is not very accurate, unless needed but what i do is calibrate just for the bandwidth needed for my measurement

[@erikev]

The HP frequency counter is only accurate to about 9 digits with 1s gate time, so really no need to try to calibrate any better than that.

[@Conjugate-Match]

Incredibly, in 2024 these are still being sold, but the software is very hard to find and hasn't been updated in 10 or more years. I recommend that you pass on this product.

[@thedavesofourlives1]

That's spicy $500 meatball

[@guillep2k]

This video was really helpful indeed! If you can take some criticism, I would suggest you could try to avoid wandering and go to the point more quickly. I think this video could have been done in just 30 minutes. Otherwise, a very interesting video.

[@TRXLab]

Thanks for feed-back 73

[@gvvq-pi5ml]

Hi Peter you might be interested in a unit called an SDR Play, i have just bought one, was about £120, covers big frequencies i just bought one....Fred g4vvq.

[@TRXLab]

Hi Fred, not sure but I think I don't know the SDR Play. Lets see if there is something on the web...73

[@enzobisconti8089]

Mini VNA Tiny is more expensive. 460 euro is shock 😲 More than i can spend for my hobby

[@pu1ypj]

I bought one of this and I'm getting a lot of strange measurements.

[@pu1ypj]

Here can I find help?

[@johng8pef11]

It would probably help if you could describe what it is that you are trying to measure, and the nature of the results that you're getting, Felipe

[@pu1ypj]

John, I got the problem. The output balun is fault on my unit (not mRS fault, my travelling bag arrived almost destroyed :( ). Got in contact with the mRS guys, they offered to service the MiniVNA but I'm going to buy one balun at Digikey and replace it. imgur.com/a/1kD8Q

[@johng8pef11]

Ah, yes - that would cause a few problems, I guess ;) It must have had a very rough ride through the postal system... I'm glad you found the problem and hope that you are sucessful in repairing it. Good Luck!

[@ЕгорДементьев-ю4ж]

hi Friend!, can you sent me the same picture with the number of ic 8 pin chip plased near DET imput, my chip unfortunately was burned (, my mail is [e-mail], thank You!

[@iprogramplus]

is here a solution for Linux, I cannot attach to a USB port

[@deedubbs4412]

Yeah. Install windows.

[@iprogramplus]

Cheers 😃

[@W4BIN]

Yes, by installing java in LINUX the vna/J program works well without any port complications, but blueVNA for android works better in my opinion. I have a miniVNA Pro KA4INM

[@dg8nco]

every one count the word "really" in this Video ;-)

[@TRXLab]

Well Uwe, nobody is perfect :^) Thanks for watching 73

[@nerdful1]

Anyone have one used for sale? Otherwise, researching one to buy. Broadcast engineer and ham for me. Have other stuff like mfj 260 and Bird in hand. Hehe

[@TRXLab]

it is worth the money for sure! 73

[@silenthill4]

$80 on banggood

[@realedna]

43:55 WTF?

[@TRXLab]

reference calibration

[@tommcqueary7831]

Appreciate the effort but you are too long winded. Video should be reduced to about 20 minutes max.

[@loslosbaby]

Just reduce your watching to 20mins! There's short vids out there...DL this one, make a super-edit! CHALLENGE! (I got no time for people who complain about free content)

[@silenthill4]

Agreed Wrap it up B

[@azzym8794]

*Your viewers do not have infinite time . Can you cut your videos down a bit? You are sloooow and long winded.* *Being succinct and to the point and brief is the order of the day fella*

[@TheBlablawww]

His videos are made to be watched in 2x speed :-)

[@stargazer7644]

Click the little gear and turn the speed up