$10K Jeep Rubicon vs $55K Jeep Rubicon | Unexpected results in Moab

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I should be in the chat at the live premiere as I’m truly curious what y’all think of this comparison. Maybe I called it wrong, but I believe the footage supports my conclusions (which were different from my assumptions going into it). This has basically made me reconsider my plans for the TJ and JL… they need to serve two different roles to be more effective in creating guides of all levels. Still figuring this out.

[@4Fox59]

Hell, I'll watch just to find out where you are getting TJ Rubicons for 10K!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Mine wasn’t 10k (but close), but I found one better than mine a month after for that. Colorado has deals if you keep on the lookout. Heck I’ve even seen deals on LJs.

[@4Fox59]

@@coloradomallcrawlers man I already have one, but I still look (because I have a jeep problem) and haven’t seen a Rubicon that low. Just went back to a TJ from a Jk and paid a premium for one with 44k miles. I guess you know who I’ll be rooting for in the vid.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I still can’t make sense of this one. I’d love to hear your thoughts when you see it.

[@4Fox59]

@@coloradomallcrawlers looking forward to it!

[@richfarfugnuven6308]

Buy a TJ. Build it out. '05 Rubicon driver here. It's a beast with a little bit of investment. I'm going to MetalCloak sliders and fenders next...

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Sounds like a great Jeep!

[@Hutch_Davenport]

And for F's sake do something with the sway bar. Of course the older Jeeps will lose with a fixed sway bar and it is easy to just unbolt it. Antirock's are awesome.

[@klg774]

Just put the Metalcloak arched and rockers on my 06, Love em!!

[@DumbCarGuy]

I bought the Genright aluminum fenders and sliders. Much nicer stuff.

[@scottsimoneau5263]

@@DumbCarGuysoooooo why is everyone talking about buying parts ? Don’t you guy know how to build anything your selfs ?

[@davidheckart639]

Speaking of this with friend just today - he told me about his beloved 2005 Wrangler conking on him near Ouray (fuel pump). The takeaway is that, no matter how wonderfully perfect a vehicle was when new, they all get old and less reliable.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Trust me, I get that. I have been off-roading for decades and have yet to be stranded on a trail, but I know it’s due to happen. Will it be the TJ or will it be the JL? Due to time constraints and financial constraints, the JL is in the best shape of all my Jeeps. My goal is to tighten up the TJ when I get back tho.

[@123-olmngresx]

Fuel pumps get old and need to be replaced regardless. The first thing I did when I got my old rig was replace my fuel pump and water pump. Let's see Imogene 3 times, black bear once moab several times. Old does not mean unreliable. Old and not doing alot of maintenance means thumb out. 👍

[@anonymous..-]

Yup, time to go spend $50,000 for a new Jeep because a fuel pump went bad.

[@SVW1976]

Thanks Captain Obvious.

[@jameshinkle3318]

Regular maintenance required

[@DUNEATV]

I always thought all my Jeeps were very capable…but once I got my first JL Rubicon I was AMAZED at its stock capability! Just unbelievable how good these new Jeeps are!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

They really are crazy capable!

[@johnphillipsjr7238]

🤦‍♂️🤡

[@bobthebrick1988]

​@johnphillipsjr7238 go off kid 😂

[@jaredkish8716]

Stock is the way! Maybe some slightly beefed up stuff but Don’t need all the crazy stuff

[@DUNEATV]

@@jaredkish8716 You’re exactly right. I called them tasteful mods.

[@Scottydoing]

Who doesn't love a good old vs new comparison

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

lol, some of those who commented. Thanks for watching!

[@marcguevara162]

The TJ is still my favorite Jeep! 05-06 with the six-speed manual!, Yes please!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

A great jeep indeed!

[@rayss3323]

Exactly what I have - an 06 with 4 link long arms, 4" lift on 35s. BTW - I called Currie and they say the Anti rock is designed to remain connected when rock crawling.

[@bobthebrick1988]

Just great until you have to do maintenance. The heater core is a giant pain.

[@erickolb7033]

I love my $15k 05 TJ rubicon. Keeping it for life. Perfect combo of old and new. Inline4.0, fuel injection, 6 speed manuel, all wheel disc, coil springs. Otherwise, no modern tech, which is why I'll never get a new jeep.

[@williammortensen1889]

​@@rayss3323Whats your point, neither of these jeeps come stock with an Antirock.

[@SoggyVagabond]

Super fun video! I liked seeing both of these in action side-by-side. I’m looking forward to some more vids coming up! Keep up the good work man 🤙🏼

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks! I’m on vacation right now, but I brought two new ones to edit. One has a 2 door bronco Sasquatch and my jeep and another is a san Juan mountain tour of the area over three days. Today is a travel so I might get some stuff done on them. Thanks for watching!

[@jackrotter9434]

Quick disconnects on a TJ is the #1 modification in my opinion. You get sooo much more articulation it is a night and day difference. Smoother ride and allows you to use lockers as an absolute last resort. I was bummed with my stock performance (skill issue, I was the problem) but once I learned how to manage the clutch, and take the disconnects off paired with a small lift and larger tires…. It goes anywhere.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Absolutely!

[@Hutch_Davenport]

It is a good 1st mod or just keep a set of wrenches around and disconnect manually. Antirock would be even better. Why Jeep decided to release the Rubicon in road only mode with the sway bar is beyond me. I guess the TJs were the first to be intended for real on road use.

[@woof3598]

Heaven forbid they come with locking hubs (-:

[@johnjamrowski7505]

But I thought the TJ Rubicon had factory disconnect sway bar.

[@johnjamrowski7505]

THE TJ Rubicon has factory sway bar disconnects.

[@wusaint]

Stock for stock the JL is obviously a more capable vehicle. And it's a hell of a lot more tolerable as a daily driver. But the TJ has that simple charm and the legendary 4.0L. Plus the TJ will definitely be easier for the average doityourselfer to deal with. It all comes down to what ya want and how much you can spend.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Not a bad take

[@backwoodstherapy]

I love the part where you say "I have a TJ Rubicon, JL Rubicon, and Jeep Liberty." _Shows picture of Liberty broken down._ 😂😂😂 Old jeep life Still, great video. If you're ever in East TN again, we should do a "stock Rubicon vs moderately modified Sport" video since I'm lifted on 35s with 4.88 gears (also a manual transmission).

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I come back to TN often to help my parents. However I usually fly as I can’t miss much work. I do plan on getting the Liberty out more in 2024 though.

[@backwoodstherapy]

@@coloradomallcrawlers yeah I feel that. I would love to do some trails in Colorado, Utah, California, but with a wife and 2 year old driving a lifted rig 2000 miles to do it isn't feasible. 😅

[@michaelhodges8312]

Still have my fully modified 2005 TJ Unlimited with 35” Mickey Thompson tires, 4.5 RE lift, OX lockers, 4:1 transfer case, 4.88’s. Only 10K miles on it since 2005.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Nice!

[@mattvanlandingham8034]

Tank!

[@johnanthony6141]

I’ve had them all even a YJ. To date the 4dr JL is the best on road and off road but the TJ was the last jeep jeep with. Nostalgia. I personally think a LJ with a long arm or TJ long arm stretch is the most capable. The only problem with the TJ has been a slightly weaker axle. For the price of a new JL Rubicon you can have an extremely built TJ that will go anywhere. Great video again Dewy!!!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks buddy, but I think you 4 door guys start smoking something when you get them. I wheel with a lot of people in a wide variety of rigs. If I can out wheel a built 4 door in a stock 2 door which often happens, the two door is the most capable. You should NOT need to add 37s to a Jeep. Don’t get me wrong… I like the 4 door and it’s good at some stuff, but I might need to make another versus video to illustrate this.

[@johnanthony6141]

IMO, haha.. the 4 door with the longer wheel base will out crawl the 2 drs all day long. I’ve even witnessed it in Moab. I’m headed out there this week. (Thursdayish)I really wanted to do the white rim but apparently you need to get reservations a year in advance to get three days in a row. It looks like needles has a lot of open spots.. I may just go out to the white sand wash/ rabbit valley and ride my dirtbike. If I ever get an invite on your overlander trips, I’ll show you how effortless four-door can be. 😂 In reality, I like the four-door for the extra room for camping.

[@JEEPDadXJ]

I've still got a 2000 TJ SPORT with only 190k on it and a 96 XJ with 391k on it. Both are paid for and serve me well in Wyoming. Great video.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Quite a nice stable of vehicles you have… nice!

[@jeffallan3761]

Great video. I'd love to be out West to really have fun in my '04 TJR. Owned four TJs since '97. They are FUN. Best looking Jeeps too.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Hope you get a chance to bring it out! I love Moab so much. The TJ is definitely a looker!

[@jimm244]

Thanks for the vid. I’m a new owner of a bone-stock TJ Rubicon. I haven’t figured out its capabilities yet, so this was very helpful.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Glad it helped… it’s a great machine!

[@jasonunger9034]

It's insane. Ours has a 4" lift and 35's as well as other upgrades....Did a double black diamond trail in Tennessee....what this billy goat of a vehicle can do is astounding.

[@Ramtots]

I just bought a bone stock, low mileage, clean, ‘04 Rubicon, 5 speed and not a computer or creature comfort to be had. After having my JT for a couple of years, I had forgotten just how honest, small, nimble and perfect the TJ’s were. The last of the metal Jeeps. I’d also purchased an ‘05 Rubicon, 6 speed, brand new off the showroom floor back in ‘05 and have regretted selling her for years, so my return to a TJ has been a long time coming. I don’t know, given the pricing of todays Jeeps, if I’ll ever go back to new. $800-1k/mo for a Jeep is just insane.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I’ve always bought new Jeeps through the years as I like to see the progression (3 new TJs, 2 new JKs, and 1 new JL). However, the one I regretted trading in was my 2000 TJ and I sometimes miss my 2012 (altho that was for the adventures it had). The JL line is great, but I don’t think I’ll buy a new Jeep from Stellantis anymore. They basically said FU to us loyal Jeep owners and are determined to turn an offroad brand into a luxury brand. I reserved a Scout with a gas generator to test it out, but I may just skip the Scout and get an LJ instead.

[@ORJeeper]

Had my 2004 Rubicon for 20 years. 4" lift 33"tires. Feels more like a Jeep to me but I would still like to have a CJ7.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I’d like to have a CJ5 myself so I get it!

[@JarradShaw]

I own a 2005 Rubicon Unlimited (LJ) with a six speed manual in bright silver. Old man Emu lift with Rubi 16” rims and Toyo 33s. She is so tough and amazing.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Awesome!

[@danneytee]

Great filming and editing skill man !

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you! I’m learning from Drew, our better editor!

[@ford4602]

Great video!! It's great because my buddy and I just went to Merus Off-road in TX. He has an 18 JLU Rubicon on 35's. I have an 03 Sport 2in lift 456 gears and rear locker on super 35 kit. It was cool to see the differences. Mine was smaller and more nimble. But his added wheel base and front locker helped on steep climbs.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Very cool! That sounded like a fun time!

[@ford4602]

@@coloradomallcrawlers it's a great park, I do recommend.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

@ford4602 one day I’ll get down there… I’ve wheeled a lot of off-road parks, but not that one.

[@highlonesomerob5053]

The TJ was (in my humble opinion) the last great Jeep. Before all the electronics took over, bulletproof 4.0L I6, narrower body, lighter weight.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

A lot would agree. I personally think the JL is also a great Jeep.

[@1SIK335]

Yea the 4.0 lasts FOREVER

[@ChadMcFarlane]

Just came across your channel! I love the deep dive! Great content!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you… we mostly make trail guides, but I was curious and fins was close enough to do some testing after work.

[@mickanonim3860]

Nicely done and a great comparison video. I still have my Solar Yellow 04 TJ Rubi (although it does NOT have a "Trail Rated" badge or the plastic tailgate covers) and it is my fave weekend Jeep!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you! Interesting, did you remove them or did it just not come with it. I had an early 2004 in lime green TJR and I don’t believe it had those either, but I’m not sure. The TJs could be weird from year to year tho… it’s like they updated them mid production.

[@mickanonim3860]

@@coloradomallcrawlers when Rubicon came out they didn't have them in Solar Yellow so I called the factory and asked if they would make one, they said "no, because it would be a collector's model if it was a sole Yellow TJ in the first year of Rubicon production." Later on in the fall they built it for me, but said they will call it an '04. So I have an '03 looking '04 and it is still my most fun Jeep!

[@ndafarachaitezvi1139]

Awesome and outstanding.Thanks for sharing and taking us along

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you for watching!

[@rmat9023]

6:10 what is that little ball shaped knob thing coming out of the Grab Handle, near his face?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

It’s a 20mm ball mounting system… lately I’ve been putting my radio mount there on group trips.

[@DeanJohnson67]

excellent edit/review! Always look forward to trail/jeep related videos!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you buddy!

[@k5kdd]

Don't know the service/ flogging history of your TJR but the TJ Rubi came with a rear clutch pack type Trac-lok AND the F&R air lockers. Your TJR either has a worn out clutch pack, some one removed it or the fluid has been changed and no posi friction modifier was added which will screw the"posi" unit up. Check it out. I'm surprised all the TJR responders do not know their own rigs and did not mention this when talkin about the un locked air locker and one wheel spin @ 17:05 that should have engaged the Trac-lok for both wheels rotating under power.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks! Due to how much I work, I need to find a good TJ mechanic in Grand Junction. I forgot about Trac-lok. My TJ has a lot of mechanical issues I need to take care of unfortunately so that’s probably a later investigation. It’s just slow going due to time and money. Thanks again tho, I’ll definitely look into it.

[@WheelinWithWally]

Great and fun video! My KZbin channel is based around my TJ so I'm a little biased but I think you hit a lot of good points. I think the JLs are arguably the better vehicle but TJs are a lot more fun in my opinion. You feel more connected to the Jeep and it just feels more rugged than with a JL. Couple that with the huge price difference and it makes beating a TJ up on the trails a lot less painful than a JL that is around the same capability. Nice video and enjoy your multi day adventures this year!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you!

[@matopezuta2050]

You mentioned the AUX battery problems in the JL. With a manual trans I think the AUX battery is a little less problematic. I know I never turn off the start/stop like the people with the automatics always do. Only time the start/stop kicks in with the manual is when you want it to, vehicle stopped, the trans in neutral, and clutch out for the start/stop to kick in. By not constantly having the override button activated is the entire system is running and charging system is fully active.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I don’t turn it off either, but all batteries die and if the aux battery dies, it’s going to be a pain. Even with a manual, but I guess I won’t know till it happens.

[@matopezuta2050]

@coloradomallcrawlers I'm hoping that by not using the bypass button, the batteries will have a normal life span rather than the 3-4 years a lot report. I can usually get 6-10 years out of a battery normally.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I do the same but my aux battery did something weird this winter making me think it might go out soon. I’m getting it inspected while I’m on vacation.

[@matopezuta2050]

@@coloradomallcrawlers I'm debating on spending the money on the Genesis dual battery setup. At least I'd have two batteries the same size, and both would be easily accessible. That and I could run a heavier 12 volt plug to the back for a refrigerator from it. The factory wiring is pretty light to the 12 volt plug in the back.

[@mahcheeksajiglin6540]

They put that auto start stop crap on a stick shift? 😂

[@derekjarman1638]

Final edit turned out great!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks buddy!

[@afifthofjackgaming]

Right out of the box I would expect the JL to better... having 33s instead of 31s (that is on TJ) will help. Especially with the ledge, however I would say I would take the motor in the TJ over the JL. And overal I would say TJ... a lot less electronics and believe wheelbase will be slightly smaller with TJ

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I thought that too. For the most part, I keep finding that the TJ is able to do everything I have done with the JK or JL based on this summer’s trails. Once I fix the brakes, I’ll take the stock TJ on poison spider to see if it can do that too.

[@afifthofjackgaming]

@@coloradomallcrawlers that's awesome... im in the process of resurrecting my 02 tj, it use to be my dad's jeep so I have personal ties. I'm going with a lighter rig having the 2.4 and staying around 31 tires.. my challenge is that it's also my daily driver as well

[@Colorado4x4]

Awesome video Dewie! Loved the comparison! 🤘

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks buddy!

[@montechie]

The biggest thing for clearance on the TJR/LJR is doing a tummy tuck skidplate. The stock skid is strong, but has a flanged leading edge that hangs down and acts as a scoop. If I did my LJR build over, I'd start with a BL/MML 1" first and tummy tuck before I did my suspension lift. After 18ish years of owning our '05 LJR, still my favorite, but love my '22 JTR as well and would totally love a JLR. The D44s have gotten stronger over the years, not sure about the knuckles since new ones are aluminum. Nothing to run 35s on stock JLR D44s on the rocks, but not so much on the TJR's without a shaft and regear upgrade at least. Trail fixes, definitely easier on the TJ/LJs but there were some more electronic controls (camshaft sensor, etc) added in the late years, not sure if that was Rubicon specific or Rubicon+'05/06 specific. Easy home mechanic replacement, but not trail fixable vs older TJs. I've had to zip tie some linkage rubber that dry rotted on the trail, but the LJ has been the most reliable 4x4 for us (vs Toyotas and Fords we've owned).

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Absolutely, and I’ll likely be adding 35s to my JL and then use it as my rated 7 trail guide Jeep. We’ll see and thanks for watching!

[@yamahansolo]

Why did you not use the slow .6mph crawl on the downhill in the jl?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

It’s a manual… it doesn’t have hill descent. Neither does the TJ tho, so this looked at the Jeeps exactly running exactly the same way.

[@HardcountsAdventures]

I’m curious there is a button to manage descents on the new JL, did you have that engaged when testing?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I’ve used it before (off-road plus), but it doesn’t seem to do much in a manual. I could totally be wrong tho, but I stopped using it when I didn’t feel a real benefit to it while wheeling.

[@RKmndo]

I'd rather just downshift, instead of heating up the brakes.

[@joe7497]

Where can you get a TJ rubicon for 10k??

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Colorado… mine was the price noted in the video, but there was a nicer than mine version listed and sold for 10k on the front range. Mine was a western slope TJ.

[@joe7497]

I am also in CO (Golden). Most on FB market are around 15 or higher.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Keep looking, I bought the TJ at the end of the season tho. Now is prime time for expensive old Jeeps.

[@joshcoray3777]

This was a solid video - I subscribed. Looking forward to more.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you! Working on Moab’s Mashed Potatoes right now… we lost the trail, but it’s a good reminder of what we lost and that all hope is not lost yet.

[@joshcoray3777]

@@coloradomallcrawlers We are lightly planning a trip over from TN for our JK and looking forward to the trail details. Let's hope it opens back up!

[@Reality_Filter]

Great comparison video. I'll throw my own comparison out there... Had a 2004 manual TJ Rubicon for 14 years, amazing in everything it did and reliable, loved the torque and the fun. As a taller person it wreaked havoc on my SI joint due to seating position. Also the body rot on the frame from being in New England ( needed Fluid Film). Sold the 2004 in 2018 for an auto 2dr Recon Rubicon, last of the JK's, 6 years in and it has been even more reliable than the old TJ, while being more capable and much more comfortable (frame sprayed immediately with Fluid Film) btw. Also much better in snow and slop due to the BLD. Do I miss the TJ, yep it was more fun... You have the best of both worlds, love to see more content!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I’m glad you found a Jeep that works for you! I really liked my JK… it was a durable little Jeep. I feel very fortunate and thank you!

[@jeffrentsch4318]

I have a stock 2014 JK Rubicon, and a not stock 1995 YJ 2.5. Both are manual transmission biggest difference is $ with pucker factor regarding body damage. Love the lockers of Rubicon. The AX5 is doing what AX5 do. I'm not sure if a rebuild, or a repower with new transmission is in the near future...

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Sounds like a great combo!

[@AdventuresofGraywolf]

Just bypass the secondary battery and remove it when it goes bad (it's easier to go through the inner fender well than removing the fusebox and coming in from the top. That little motorcycle battery is only used to keep electronics running when the engine shuts off at red lights but you can just use the main battery for that with a quick jumper on your fuse block, and you can tell it to remember your decision to not use that ESS stop/start by using a tazer JL, which will also give you the ability to make the rear camera come on when you hit your turn signals, among other things

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Dealers/Jeep hate the tazer tho and I’ve heard of denied warranty work because of them. I’m someone that shows my Jeep in action and altho my dealer is good, they watch my vids. I am about to pick up the JL after my trip and I know they did a lot of stuff that was warranty covered.

[@cowelk]

I found your channel 2 days ago and subscribed. I subscribed because you are using a full stock or mostly stock Jeep. Of course, your stock and my stock ( I bought a 2021 JLU Sport with EcoDiesel) are not the same. I have lifted mine 2 1/2 inches and put 33 inch tires on it. I have a n Anti-Spin Rear Differential and no front lockers or sway bar disconnect (except manual of course). So I am most interested the capabilities of mostly stock Wranglers. You provide that. Thank you. Good luck on your bet. I don't know who your buddy is but I vote for you.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

He beat me to 20k (trail traveler), but we still have a bet to 50k lol

[@Wrangzilla]

Since 1996, I've owned 3 TJ, (a base 4 CYL, a Sport, and a Rubicon, 2 JK's (a Sahara and a Rubicon), and now currently own a heavily built JLUR. The JLUR is FAR more superior but the TJ's are just cool little offroaders. I want to add a 05/06 Rubicon to my driveway soon.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

You sound like me. I have owned 3 TJs, 2 JKs, and now a JL and this used TJ. I use to think the JL model was far superior too, but that’s why I did this video. As I said in the description, you can make any generation of Jeep superior to another generation of Jeep, but that’s why this was STOCK vs STOCK. I just don’t think we can say the JL is far superior anymore. Is it a great Jeep? ABSOLUTELY! However the video was me investigating this notion I had (the JL is superior) with functional wheeling results.

[@hakenkreuz7076]

Rich people. 😖🤢🤮

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

It’s about priorities bud. I live in my camper so I can buy Jeeps and take care of my parents. I do well, but I wouldn’t call myself rich, but I’m definitely thankful.

[@hakenkreuz7076]

@@coloradomallcrawlers I'm dirt poor and this piece of sh!t 2018 JL sport I'm still paying on is killing my in repairs, on top of the 3 coolant leaks , the rear main seal leak, the rear axle leaking , coolant warped the heads had to be torn apart and fixed and now the oil cooler is leaking all this happened between 70,000 mls and 78,000 mls , I'm at 80,000 now and it's dumping coolant everywhere I go. And that's not including all the other things like no rear defrost and the electronics freaking out , luckily I replaced the can bus block and hopefully that fix ed that. Every time I get in this thing I'm stressed wondering if I'm going to make it home. Edit: and yes, all that shit is still leaking today. 🤬🤬🤬

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Man, I’m sorry to hear that. That’s a real shame and I hope things turn around for you.

[@Jay-me7gw]

My SAS'd 95 4runner went up that first step like it wasnt there with a rear locker only. I guess there is some truth to larger tires being an advantage as I was on 37's and it just rolled right up it with only an ounce of tire spin.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Tires definitely help, but to me, it’s really fun to wheel small tires.

[@jameshinkle3318]

I took our 1998 TJ (2.5/manual) over every obstacle on Fins & Things with only a rear Detroit TruTrac. The front diff was open and we were riding on 31” Milestar Patagonia MTs. Aired down, they were 29.5” tall. I never slipped a tire. On Top of The World trail, we had JKUs and JLUs on 40s making fun of us until we climbed every obstacle. Same thing happened on Hell’s Revenge and Poison Spider. TJs are great Jeeps and just as capable if not more capable than modern Jeeps with a competent driver behind the wheel.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

For sure!

[@AldenMartinale1990]

We were in Moab in March. We rented a slightly modified Jeep Wrangler Rubicon; had bigger tires and a one inch lift. After taking it on elephant hill; it was cool to see just how capable they are even with slight mods. It was able to keep up with both my uncle’s heavily modded wranglers. We had the wrangler for three days so quite the test drive in my opinion. My wife and I really need a new vehicle this year as my 01 F150 finally died on us. The Gladiator was high on my list from the beginning; but after what was pretty much a prolonged test drive, I’ve pretty much decided on the Gladiator. Granted we will only be able to afford the sport s trim; but for my needs (camping/ light off roading) I know it will be more than enough. Maybe a one inch lift and 35s at some point down the road; don’t really need to have the crazy mods. Nice Video.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

A Sport Jeep is plenty capable… the reason I rarely use lockers in trail guides is because the off-road traction control gets most stuff done! Enjoy!

[@SavageTrails]

Great video! We’re going to work our way out there next year can’t wait! Deciding on whether to take our TJ or our gladiator

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks and either would be fun in my opinion!

[@Ridesaway24]

Neat comparison. Reliability for a vehicle that is 20 years old, ease of finding parts and so on - maybe more of a daily driver concern, but a concern. Cost of a good, no rust vehicle for TJ are rising, then there is the consumables that should be replaced like shocks, bushings, bearings and so on. But there is a fun factor to replace that fun stuff. I think the best way to do it is what you have done - BOTH.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Yeah, you’re right! Still, I’m in the process of restoring the TJ and so far it has been pretty straightforward getting parts.

[@boganpainter1638]

I wish my JL aux battery went out on the trail. Mine went out at night in the middle of the busiest road in town. It went completely dead. The hazard lights wouldn't even work. Fortunately, someone helped me push it off the road before I got hit.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Oh man, that’s terrifying but I’m glad it worked out for you. I dropped off my JL at the dealer before I went to vacation. Apparently, the check engine light came on while they had it and the last I heard, they thought it was the aux battery.

[@odysseyusa]

Great job guys. They just keep getting better! Yeah, I also thought about if someone put larger tires on the TJ and it would then be easily beating the clearance of the stock JL. The JL is so nice to live with though, even with possible quirks like the aux battery or etorque. Knock on wood, my eTorques have been solid to over 80 and 90k miles respectively.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Yeah I love them both, but this surprised me. Still, 20 year old machine vs 3 year old machine… right now, I’d count on the JL to get me home. However, once I tighten up some of the TJ’s issues, I feel it’ll be just as reliable. At least till then, I can likely get the TJ off the trail if it breaks.

[@blurglide]

Hello from Albuquerque. I have a TJ Rubicon on 35's as well as a GX460 on 33.4's and would love to join you guys on a trip!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I’d love that. However, it’s kinda tricky to organize so I’m doing the trips through our channel membership. This way everyone can get on the same page since filming trail guides isn’t like a normal wheeling trip. We’re trying to make something useful and entertaining while having a great time.

[@blurglide]

@@coloradomallcrawlers Looks like you have different tiers, named after trails. Is that to sign up for those trails? The dates would be the most important thing to me.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

The lowest tier ($.99) gets all trail/trip info… if I could have made it free, I would have. The $4.99/mo tier gets quickly edited videos on topics that will eventually filter into the channel. For instance, I’m scouting rim rocker next week. We are going to film a great trail guide on it with Drew, but I’ll likely make 5-10 minute video providing insights on the trail while scouting it out. It won’t be the quality of the videos we release to everyone, but it was my way to get info out quicker without altering the algorithm.

[@94520shatto]

OMG, OMG, the armor plate for the gas tank has a dent in it!. And the rock sliders have scratches. .... My problem was the dent in the oil pan next to the drain plug that caused the drip that I cured with a hose washer from ACE. So now my 2012 JK Rubicon has an aftermarket engine and transmission armor plate. I don't know what I hit and don't understand why they didn't finish protecting the underside. You have seat warmers! You should have used the seats in our Korean War vintage M38A1 in the 1960s. Those old Jeeps made driving participatory, and exciting. But, with the kit, you could use the 24 volt electrical system to weld it back together.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Yeah, I get that. About seat warmers… I know they’re a relatively new feature, but they’re water proof and definitely an awesome update! My TJ will probably get them as I’m a skier.

[@josephsepulveda8819]

Great! Now I want a TJ to go with my JL.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

It’s a good combo!

[@philipheminger9844]

My 04 Rubicon LJ was by far my favorite jeep! Loved it compared to my YJ's and JK's.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Nice!

[@Trebor-gw8lt]

The OG TJ RUBI is just so cool.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks, I think so too!

[@DH.Maker.Artist]

I'd certainly love to have a TJ or LJ

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

TJ vs LJ!

[@Rick-yo2nc]

Nice comparison I have a 2004 Rubicon had a 2013 Rubicon tenth anniversary issue. Liked them both but the JK was to pretty. Two thoughts on the video the 2004 had the NV 3550 five speed so your crawl ratio in the video is wrong unless you had the 05-06 six speed. The TJ Rubicon rear axles also came with a rear factory posi which you didn’t mention and should have helped your traction issues maybe yours isn’t working ?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks! Yeah, 5 speed, I rushed to get it done at the end.

[@Ottercreekoverland]

Dewie,This is a great video!👏👏👏

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you!

[@rayss3323]

Good overall comparison. I thought it was done pretty fairly. Ive got an 06 rubi with 4" lift and 4 link long arms on 35s. I really think lowering air pressure would have helped both, but probably more on the TJ since its lighter. BTW - I and many other TJ owners tend to run about 25 psi on the street, which helps smooth things out.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you! You’re running 35s, running 30.5in tires at 25 on the streets wouldn’t be wise. This was meant to be a stock vs stock comparison. Had I aired down, it could be argued I introduced too many variables into this. Plus it’s slick rock and I’ve wheeled it so much that I know I’d rather have a bit more clearance than grip.

[@-o-The-Duke-o-]

Do you notice a difference between the air operated lockers in the TJ and the electric lockers of the JL?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Not really, but that might be because there is a major difference between the two clutches that overshadows everything else.

[@ky0611]

Im not sure if the JL had the sway bar disconnected or not, but on the tj having it connected makes all the difference on that trail. Im pretty sure you would have had a better time walking up if the tj sway bar was disconnected.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

JL was disconnected once I started the trail. Since it was stock vs stock. The TJ was connected since it didn’t have an easy way to disconnect.

[@ky0611]

​@coloradomallcrawlers o ok got it! I have quick disconnects and forgot to disconnect. While I was on the trail I was like why I'm struggling lol. Then my quick disconnect pin ended up breaking so I disconnected both and after that no issues.

[@stevenkirkey9796]

Great video Moab is on the bucket list Just retired a yellow '15 4dr wrangler and got a jt overland What a difference one generation of jeep makes let alone new rubi vs tj Always loved the tj and came close a couple times but they are hard to find ,most besten to death and overpriced Better deals on xj ,wj etc Or the Lib

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

The JT is a sweet jeep! Thanks for stopping by.

[@Patmclean232]

I have a JKU rubicon now, and it does amazing off road! That being said the one thing I loved about my 2000 TJ sport was how small it was: I live in New England and the woods trails are very tight, and you can’t even fit in a lot of them with most mid sized SUV’s .. with the tj I could get in almost any trail a quad could fit in.. plus the turning radius was amazing compared to the JK, you could practically make a circle around a tree.. granted my current Jeep is an unlimited, but the jk and Jl 2 doors are definitely bigger than the tj

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Great insights!

[@Patmclean232]

Thank you!!

[@Verdunfam2510]

I’m still trying to find a 10k jeep tj rubicon 😲

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

It’s wheeling season, it’s harder to find one right now, BUT they’re out there. The title is based on what I found here in Colorado last year at the end of the season.

[@lylekliewer4787]

Thanks for the fun and informative video. In the end, any Wrangler is more fun than a Camry and therefore a winner in my book. I do however tend to favor the TJ just because of it's size and maneuverability, oh, and not to mention, reliability and simplicity. That being said, I've never driven a JL, and might think differently if I owned and drove one. With my budget though, I don't foresee making that comparison for myself.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you and as much as I like the JL, Jeep prices are getting out of hand. They are not a luxury brand… they are off-road brand and that’s why most of us have remained loyal to them as they use to know that.

[@krags.allander2465]

Man I sure don't know how I took my 1979 f150 through all these same type of trails back in 1982 with out camera, lockers, and all the stuff you NEED to four wheel today. He'll I didn't even have huge tires like so many have today. Oh yeah I could drive.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

This was simply a comparison between two stock vehicles highlighting what they have and don’t have as well as what they can do. I could take my stock Jeep Liberty on Fins & Things without issue. Also, I’ve been wheeling for nearly 25 years, trails have gotten harder in recent years.

[@onoffroad]

Due to the type of limited slip in the rear, you should keep the rear locked as much as possible when off-road. Especially on hard surfaces or where one wheel can catch traction. It's the main weakness of this axle design .

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks for the tips!

[@DavidParadis-x6d]

i've seen stock restored Willy's Army Jeeps out maneuver and out crawl the Rubicon Trail over hugely modified modern day jeeps.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I don’t doubt that… grandpa’s Jeep is one of my favorite wheelers. The benefit of these Jeeps is they are great in my daily life while still being great on the trails.

[@blakersen]

I think one thing you left out on the descent comparison is Hill Descent mode that the JL will have. That would even it out a little bit more in that area. I like the new Jeeps but I sold my jku because mine was really unreliable. I also have an LJ that I’ve been working on, you are right about the comfort as well. I have nicer suspension and such and it is pretty comfortable but not quite what a modern Jeep is. Still, I would still take my LJ.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I have a manual JL so no hill descent in that one. I’m curious if the auto can descend slower as I’d assume it could since I believe it uses braking to active the slow crawls. Articulation and water fording weren’t tested tho. I’d like to put them both on a ramp as I’m interested. Water fording I really don’t want to test as I’d have to go over 30in to figure it out.

[@blakersen]

@@coloradomallcrawlers I think it would. I had it in my JK and it did do it’s own braking and was pretty good. Look forward to seeing more Jeep content, especially the LJ 😀.

[@petemarron6677]

Your videos are well done, entertaining.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thank you!

[@Kevin---kx3jy]

Great apples to apples comparison.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks! That’s what I was going for.

[@Kevin---kx3jy]

@ I just discovered your channel. Very well done and I’m a new subscriber! I’ve only explored Moab by dual sport motorcycle, but I’m hoping to return soon in my Jeep ZJ I’m building.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Love ZJs, welcome! Finishing filming a video this weekend, then going into editing mode. We have videos from Moab, Tennessee, Colorado, Arizona, and the San Rafael Swell filmed just needing editing.

[@jasonunger9034]

I drive a stock 2019 JL Rubicon, and now my sons 2003 TJ Rubicon with a 4" lift and 35's. The TJ with a lift and bigger rubber cancels out more of what the JL scores. I'd bet on the TJ if my life depended on it.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Yeah, I believe I say that in the video. The TJ would have done even better on the same size tires (altho this is stock vs stock). However, I just got back from a week in Arizona and chose the JL. I could count on it despite spending $6.5k on the TJ this year to get it sorted out and reliable (it’s still not trustworthy yet).

[@WildEpic_KL]

Great concept and great video bud! What a great trail to choose as well; lots of fun. I believe that “wall” obstacle is what I’ve referred to as Camp Hill, and believe it or not, followed a JL like yours up that in the KL last year. Also, a bit irrelevant for performance, but if you added in a styling point for a tie breaker, which way would you lean? I personally think the JL way out styles the TJ in looks, inside and out! Lol Would love to hit Moab with ya sometime 🤙🏼

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Hey buddy! Yeah, that was a suggested category to add to this, but I like the way both look. I think the TJ is a looker on the outside, but the JL is a looker from the driver seat so it’s tough for me to call. Plus I like the JL’s look so much because it was TJ and CJ inspired.

[@MichaelH416]

Jeep has always said that the wheel base on the TJ was the best stock set up for crawling they’ve ever done. The problem was the interior was cramped. My 2000 TJ was a better crawler stock than some of the “built” JK models. I miss my Wrangler. Driving a Cherokee now.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

The Cherokee is pretty nice too!

[@Arrivion]

I've been waiting for this!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Hope it did what it needs to do!

[@Arrivion]

@@coloradomallcrawlers most definitely

[@MrMischief604]

I had a TJ Rubicon and a JL Rubicon. Because of its smaller size which I prefer on Colorado trails I would rather a TJ offroad rather than the JL. Another place that I prefer the TJ over the JL was open air feeling. Primarily where the TJ wins here is with the windshield down. Yes it was slightly more annoying to drop the window in a TJ (10 bolts on the TJ and a wire that had to be disconnected, but windshield wipers removed with no tools, vs 4 bolts on the JL plus two nuts on the wipers) but when the TJ's windshield was down it sat lower on the hood and the lack of any kind of roll structure around you made for a much more open air experience, similar to riding a rollercoaster. The JL's windshield sits so high on the hood it blocks offroad visibility and since the roll structure remains in place it feels much more confined. The JL is probably safer, but the TJ was more fun.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I don’t really prefer one over the other, but I totally get that!

[@atombomb6719]

Great stable!! May i suggest the 2023 VW GTI manual

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks! lol, I’m thinking Escalade.

[@robtyler3591]

To put the prices closer, a nice TJR is usually around $12-16k. You can get an early JLR around $25-30k now. I have a TJ and a JT, and they're completely different driving experiences.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

This video was my experience. My TJ was 13k, but a lower mileage TJ Rubicon was sold in grey a few weeks after I bought mine for 10k. My JLR was listed for 55k, but I ended up paying less than the dealer paid for it. I think I talk about it my how to order a Jeep video. I became a Jeep salesman to learn how to do that.

[@Jake-pq3iz]

With how many miles on the TJ? I’m paying 18k for a 2004 TJR with 73,000 miles in it. New BFGs in it.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

110k, no rust, some minor issues I have to fix, but otherwise a good deal

[@rightwingmanscott]

Got a TJ auto and put JK 44's with lockers under it. Only on 33's but it's a mountain goat!

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Sounds like an awesome Jeep!

[@leftoverporkchop9972]

I would note that the tj in this vid is not "stock". The wheels are from a jk and the tires are slightly oversized. Love my '00 tj with the 4 banger. it'll take on just about anything with 2.5" lift and 33's.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

That TJ is absolutely stock. It had oversized tires when I bought it with the stock suspension. I went back to stock size, but didn’t go with MTRs and instead something similar. The moab rims are TJ Rubicon rims and my 2004 TJ Rubicon that I owned in 2004 looked exactly like this one. You can see my old lime green TJR in the Poughkeepsie trail guide.

[@carebear2272]

Are they both automatics? I have a 2019 2dr manual rubicon and its crawls amazing, I put 35’s on it no lift and wouldn’t go any taller on a 2dr…….

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Both are manuals. The 2021 has a 6 speed which has been waiting on a recall for at least a year. The 2004 has a 5 speed that I believe is still original.

[@carebear2272]

Wow, my first gear in low is way slower then your 2021 then my 2019, are you driving them in 4 low?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Yep, 4Low… I ran them basically the same. The 3 descents reinforced how much slower the TJ is. I’m not sure you’re actually slower unless there is a true difference in 1st gear on the 18 and 21. Basically if I didn’t have the TJ to compare it too, I wouldn’t have believed it was as fast as the video showed.

[@What-ic6hp]

10k for a TJ Rubicon ?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Yep, but most people don’t know how to find them. Almost bought another last week.

[@MotoringAdventures_KE7SAI]

How in the world did you damage the JL rock rail and body panel? I have owned many JK and JL Rubicons, as well as the TJ Rubicon. I have never once damaged a JL or a JK rock rail ( they are similar in design) and I have literally beat the crap out of them and even had the entire weight of the Jeep slam down on them, and not a single dent (scratched yes, but never dented) in either the body or the rock rail. The TJ merely had diamond plate metal that was just bent around the body. I’m not sure how that would make it stronger than an actual separate metal bar.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

By wheeling man. I’ve slammed my JK’s rock rails just as hard over 10 years without any body damage. However the JL’s flex if they hit a rock and bend into the aluminum sheet metal causing damage. Jeep told me they’re not designed for rocks. That’s absolutely unacceptable.

[@MotoringAdventures_KE7SAI]

@@coloradomallcrawlersOf course Jeep’s going to say that. They also won’t warranty it if they can prove you off-road it. It’s the same with fast cars if they find one you’ve raced it on a track. From the picture in your video, it looks like the rail and body got hit from the side as they were both bent inward towards the center of the Jeep. Probably not designed to withstand a hit like that. They are not designed as rock sliders and to pivot off a rock. Have you hit the TJ’s rocker protection in the same way as the JL’s and had a different result?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I have not but my buddy Eric who I bought my TJ from has bashed his TJ’s rocker guards hard and they’ve held up. Steel with extra steel is better protection that flimsy steel with aluminum body panels. In 20 years, I’ve never had to pay for body work till the JL and they’ve all been bashed.

[@MotoringAdventures_KE7SAI]

@@coloradomallcrawlers Well, that's unfortunate. I've only hit my JL's on minor stuff so far. You'd think they'd be every bit as strong as the JK's, which sounds like you had good experience with those. And what about the underbelly armor? The stock TJ belly pan is beefy but hangs extremely low. I've liked the JL's so far. Had no complaints.

[@shanevanorder2644]

Its all about beening able to drive the jeep or just steer it

[@davidpayne2703]

I’m curious (I may have missed it) what was the comparison in tires? Did they have the same?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

They’re both running MTs but not the same as they came with different tires (MTRs on the TJ, Wildpeak MTs on the JL). The JL still has the wildpeaks, the TJ has Kenda Klever MT2s as I wanted to test them.

[@davidbutler5114]

With inflation both the TJ and JL have the same base price. I have driven both in stock and modified. The TJ I ran had a 6" long arm on 35's, JL 2" on 35's both manual trans. I liked the TJ more and have since traded the JL out. and purchased a TJ Rubicon. The TJ's are just more fun and after lift and tires more capable.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I did the inflation calculation, TJ rubicons were expensive Jeeps, but about 10-15k less than a cheaper JL rubicon like mine (manual, cloth seats, black fenders/top). My parents bought a TJ Rubicon new from the factory in 2004. I make more than my dad did, but can’t justify buying like he could back then. It was easier times in my opinion.

[@davidbutler5114]

@@coloradomallcrawlers 2004 average annual income 55-60k . 2024 average income 55-60K . 2004 TJ Rubicon with all options paid 24k. 2023 JL paid 44k not optioned out. Average house price in 2004 was 200k, 2023 average house price 400k. Salaries haven't gone up but inflation has. If salaries had kept up with inflation the ratio on pricing would make them equal.

[@montechie]

@@coloradomallcrawlers Yeah you're right, adjusted for inflation 24K is about 39K in 20 years. Average inflation was 2.55% from '04.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Yeah, I was rushing the edit, but used the msrp of this TJ rubicon or maybe my old green TJ rubicon to do the calculations. However, I think we got the TJ rubicon for less than msrp and I got my JL rubicon for less than msrp. It wasn’t meant to be a deep dive, but rather general look between the two. Secretly I shot these hoping for a 1 day edit… it wasn’t that.

[@davidbutler5114]

@@montechie What we really need is more of your content. Love stock wheeling.

[@evanjones6704]

Even if it was TJ-0 JL-10, I’d still pick the TJ

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Right on!

[@sindeecharlton8857]

What engine in the TJ? If the TJ has the 4.0 high output, then TJ all day long.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Pretty certain all Rubicons came with the 4.0.

[@Justn7883]

I could have got a new one but that's not what I wanted. Just picked up a 2004 Rubicon with 69k miles lifted on 35s

[@scottdunn1371]

Nice drone shots.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Thanks! I’ve been working on them.

[@derek6947]

I’ve used the heck out of my JL rock rails with no issues.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

But did you see mine? I use my Jeep on Rubicon equivalent trails. The Rubicon was made as a factory off-roader that could do the rubicon without modifications.

[@Ryno-fp7pm]

I would certainty take the TJ with the 4.0 L6 + AX15. 3 or 4" lift and some 35s and good to go

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

It’d be a nice setup!

[@michaelblue5261]

But is the difference worth the new price tag? Don't think so.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

They shouldn’t cost as much as they do, but Jeeps are valuable to me. So for me, probably.

[@ironmike2798]

Difference is TJ is 20 years old and still operating I seriously doubt your JL will. Love my TJ plus I can take mine in small trails new ones are too big.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

We will see .

[@smanchur]

This is way off the purpose of the video, but I'm wondering what your take is on yellow? Well clearly you like the colour. I've been in a hunt for a TJ for quite a while now. There aren't many for sale in my rural area. The best value I've found so far is a yellow Rocky Mountain Edition; has the Dana 44, same diamond plate rocker guards as the Rubicon, some pretty sweet factory Alcoa wheels, and a few other cosmetics. Never had yellow been on my wish list. But the colour is really growing on me as I stare at pictures and watch your videos. Wondering if people give you a rough time with the colour and if sticking out too much ever gets annoying? I know that I shouldn't care what other people think, but for some reason I envision the comments towards the colour getting tiring over time. I could be way off. Awesome video by the way. My take away; A stock TJ and JL Rubicon are more than capable for 99% of peoples needs. TJ has far more bang for your buck. JL only necessary if you want to today's creature comforts and peace of mind that there should be far less maintenance needed for at least 5 or 10 years.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

So I actually never liked yellow. I had a forest green 1997 2.5L TJ when I was kid. I ended up loving it, but it was underpowered (to kid version of me) for daily driving. One day my mom and I were driving somewhere and she saw a solar yellow TJ 4.0 sport displayed at the dealer. She loved it and I suspected it had the 4.0. She convinced my dad to trade the 97 for 00 yellow. That ended up being my best Jeep ever. The first one I bought completely on my own was rescue green as I always liked green on Jeeps. However I soon realized I made a mistake and missed yellow. I’ve now owned 7 Jeeps and the yellow ones always seem to be rock solid. They also stand out better in the forest where my green ones blended into the forest. Anyway, I think they look good now, but I think this yellow stuff resulted from all the good experiences with that 2000. I wouldn’t paint a non-wrangler yellow tho. About other’s opinions. I usually get compliments on the color. The only issue I’ve ever had is my old housemates use to argue if Dozer (my 2012’s color) was yellow or orange. I’m sure some people don’t like yellow Jeeps, but I absolutely don’t care what people I don’t know think. You got to be like that if you make videos (see some of the comments here). Thank you!

[@mattvanlandingham8034]

Why didn't they air down? A slight lift will get the TJ on 33s and it'd kick the '21s ass.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

To keep it standardized and I don’t disagree with you… but this was stock to stock and I gave one the win over the other.

[@Viking_Kong]

I have an 2004 Rubicon in the same Solar Yellow color and I love it. Personally, I don't like Jeeps after 2006.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I get that! Different strokes for different folks!

[@BrianVonClick]

Ugh. This comparison has been the bane of my Wrangler search now for several years. I love the larger size, refinements, and grocery list of creature comforts available in the JL’s, but my heart has been stuck in the 90’s-2000’s; because nostalgia. I love the feel and sound of the 4.0, the thin doors, and the sheer minimalism of the past generation. I’ve seriously looked at over 11 TJ Rubicons (here in Oklahoma) and every one has been plagued with rust, needing (darn near) every seal on the drivetrain replaced, and a bit of transmission TLC. Stock, or with all the 4WP’s appointments already added; lift, 4.88’s, 35’s, sliders, bumpers, winch. All with incredible curb appeal and priced at about $15-$22k. That is until you crawl underneath and the cruelty of time sets in. They need a lot of work. So the new ones come up. They’re not Chryslers anymore. My older buddies sneer at the fact that they’re not really Jeeps anymore either; because they have minivan engines in them now. Blah blah blah… I don’t care. I just want an unbiased report of how these 3.6 Pentastar units are. *I picked up instead a beautiful 1991 XJ Briarwood in 2021 and have had nothing but issues with its eventual engine replacement (electrical/ignition). I’m ready to start over at this point. Seeing things through rose tinted glasses can be dangerous. How do the newer JK/JL’s hold up over the TJ’s? Let me know. I’m desperate.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Well, my 2012 JK lasted for ten years without much issue. The biggest problem with used is not knowing what that Jeep’s story was. If you maintain them, you should have no issues as I’ve never had major issues. If you buy an abused Jeep, you won’t know what you get till it’s too late. TJ frames rot (mine hasn’t thankfully), newer frames should be better. Older electronics are simpler, newer electronics are complicated but all should be fixable. The 3.6L in my 2012 JK was as reliable as my 2000 TJ’s 4.0 at the ten year mark. That’s why my JL has it.

[@johnalexander7369]

See which one is still running in 10 years

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

They both will be

[@casnik-rejeeplife2904]

Why didn’t the TJ rubicon have lockers?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

It does

[@casnik-rejeeplife2904]

@@coloradomallcrawlers yeah I kind of got that later in the video. It seems like you chose when to use them. also aren’t the lifts different stock and doesn’t the JL Rubicon come with bigger wheels and tires?

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

These are both stock. JL runs bigger tires, but they didn’t let the lunatic fringe put bigger tires on the TJ. 33s were huge when the TJ was in production. Current tire sizes are a result of the 4 door needing to fix a bad breakover angle. Guess the good thing is it has gotten us beefier axles for those big tires.

[@NotAMartian-1]

The JL going down a hill faster has to do with gear ratio and tire size. The TJR in 03 had a nv3550 trans which has a nice low first gear, pair that with 4:1 low range and 4:10’s in the axles with only 31’s it tends to be a lot slower than modern stuff that just isn’t geared as low

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

Yep, I think Jeep was counting on most new Jeeps being automatics where they could use hill descent to be as slow as the TJ.

[@NotAMartian-1]

@@coloradomallcrawlers alright so now here’s a question for you since you’ve got experience with both new and old. I have a first year Rubi, 2003 TJ. I also have a 2012 JK sport. The TJ has been fun it’s my third one but it’s rust free and up here in Canada that’s rare. I find myself afraid to wheel it and ruin it so I just don’t drive it. Should I build up the JK a bit to wheel? Are new Jeeps as good as the TJ was driving them off-road? I could put a rubi t case in it and a mild lift with some 33’s and I think it would be a decent little weekend warrior but I’ve got no experience with these newer Jeeps off-road, I’ve only ever wheeled TJ’s and XJ’s. If you have any input it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you The Ontario Jeeper.

[@coloradomallcrawlers]

I love wheeling them both! As someone trying to save a TJ as I couldn’t save my 2000, I get where you are coming from. First off, I loved wheeling my 2012 JK and it’s a worthy candidate for a build. It’s a bit wider, but still very capable. All the early videos on this channel were filmed with my 2012 stock JK Rubicon. It was often doubted by new Jeep owners (in 4 doors) since it was stock, but it never let me down. Put 35s on it and it’ll go anywhere. Ok, about the TJ, I get wanting to save it, but it’s a Jeep (I have to keep telling myself this too). My thoughts are use it, but wash it immediately after wheeling. Also, get underneath and coat the frame occasionally. Both are fun to wheel and I like picking between them for different trails so that’s why I say use both. Good luck!