#10MinuteTalk

You’ve got the gun, you’ve got the rifle, now you need to get the best rings to hold them together… But what height? That’s the question we address here in this episode with Reuben Aleckson across the table from Jimmy and Mark. Full disclosure, if you’re looking for a definitive answer for your particular gun and scope combo, this isn’t going to be it, unfortunately. That said, we do go into all the reasons why that is such a difficult goal to achieve and all the aspects of your setup you should consider when making that final decision. Should you be shooting to get the scope as low to the bore as possible? Or perhaps cheek weld is the most important? How about clearing the objective bell or mag ring? All good questions! We hope this podcast can help.
As always, we want to hear your feedback! Let us know if there are any topics you'd like covered on the Vortex Nation™ podcast by asking us on any one of our social media platforms and using #VortexNationPodcast.
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[@reubenw1187]

Depends if you have a Burt or Ernie head

[@chrisp308]

😂

[@gregb.6682]

😂

[@bedlamite42]

Close your eyes, mount the rifle and get settled, then open your eyes. Move the scope and/or comb height to where you need them. you should be able to open your eyes and not have to move for a perfect sight picture, just like NPOA.

[@markmuller3144]

The higher your sight over the bore the greater the delineation effect from leaning. Lean right and you shoot right, the higher your sight the more "drift" you will have. the use of a level helps to eliminate this.

[@johnandrosemarywyatt977]

One thing not discussed was the effect of length of pull. On a standard bolt gun, the further you move away from the gun, the lower your head lowers and vice versa. People with longer necks tend to crawl the stock, which generally forces the head down, and you end up looking through the top of your eyes, which, as pointed out, is not desirable. Higher rings can help this. A cheek piece on the stock should be raised also. It is crazy in this day and age that all rifle manufacturers don't offer adjustable combs and length of pull on their stocks - especially where women are concerned as they generally have longer necks and a smaller frame. One issue with Bradley style of cheek riser is its width. It tends to move the face away from the stock, which causes the shooter to roll his/her head over to look through the scope. This affects people with round heads or fatter faces more. The bottom line is rings are only part of the equation, and it is an ongoing trial and error process to get a solid fit every time.

[@SpetsnazBear-3710]

Love the "10 Minute" Pods. Great subject

[@VortexNation]

Thanks for tuning in!

[@jessetherrien7851]

Perfect timing for this as I just bought a new vortex scope and I need some new rings. Thanks!

[@buckjager2897]

Just came across this and it helps because as a person that wears glasses it is frustrating to figure out which rings to buy. You guys make some very good points again keep up the good work and thanks.

[@ronws2007]

17:38 Jimmy is so right. 30 mm tubes and even the 34 mm tubes are fine on medium height rings. You might only need low if you are getting the 1 inch rings for the Crossfire II 3-9 / 40 mm. And definitely get the Vortex cantilever or "AR" mount. I learned that the hard way. When I was scoping my AR-10, I got some separate rings and put on a Diamondback Tactical 6-24 / 50 mm. I could not get enough elevation to bore sight with my laser. Changed to the cantilever and then the scope had height and alignment with my eye. Now, that makes height over bore about 3 inches but at least I could get it zeroed. And when I changed to a Venom scope, I knew to get the cantilever for a 34 mm tube. Now, with my new TC Compass II for my dragging through the bushes hunting rifle, I have one of the Diamondbacks I had laying around when I changed three other rifles to Venom scopes. I used medium height 30 mm that I had used originally. Perfect fit. For cheek height, I had tried a Bradley but it was actually too high. So, I got stuff from Goda Grip and that worked out great, like it was made for me. Anyway, so, having all the alignment worked out made zeroing a lot easier and more successful.

[@phild9813]

Ring height also depends on the ring manufacturer, and objective diameter. I’ve used low rings with three 30mm tube 44mm objective scopes now with room to spare. This is especially true when a pic rail is used. This is all on bolt actions.

[@oddmunddale806]

Medium-high ring from what company? What you are looking for is the clearance between barrel and scope 2mm/0,08 inch.

[@ronws2007]

@@oddmunddale806 The Vortex mediums seem to work well for most scopes with objective bells larger than 40 mm. Also, as I mentioned in another post, you can go to the Vortex site and look at the ring specs for your desired clearance.

[@taz9075]

Great video and thank you. I am new to all of this and training to figure out what I need.

[@CameraNut1000]

I am just getting into optics. Very helpful. Thanks.

[@armeddiver]

Thank you! I did not know that the scope height would be needed in the ballistic solution. Very helpful video.

[@blackcoffee730]

Appreciate this guys! Thanks for the help.

[@joehunt4506]

Have the 6x24x50 Diamondback Tactical on my .300 Win Mag. I used the Burris Optics XTR Signature rings. I also used the Wheeler scope system to level and align everything and torque properly.

[@FIAF.22LR]

Excellent presentation and very well presented, both informative and incisive.Many thanks and keep them coming 👍🏻

[@VortexNation]

Right on! Thanks for tuning in!

[@metalifann42]

Keep em coming guys

[@davidsonfitness318]

Some guys say my 300blk AR looks funny... I have a UTG 1 inch riser, then a cantilever mount for my Primary Arms LPVO. I love the height because I can pull the gun up and get on target with almost no head movement. When walking around, its much more natural and I can see better

[@jimklemens5018]

Does the 300 Blackout chambering affect the optics?

[@davidsonfitness318]

@@jimklemens5018 No, I had set it up for fast acquisition without having to lower my head.

[@timothyking3171]

I personally think it better to have a comfortable cheek weld first with a comfortable eye height like they pointed out their is mounts are angled to compensate fr height and distance

[@brandtbuchanan5526]

I called Vortex to ask this very question. The guy they referred me to on the phone was very knowledgeable and made sure I got the right rings for my rifle scope.

[@scottstyles7674]

My Ruger #1 22/250AK I had to change height when changed from 40mm bell to a 56mm bell on scope, thought you guys may have mentioned that situation for height change

[@samuelalexander5952]

Bought some vortex rings and thought they looked too high, my cheek riser comes up high enough so I guess I'm good then. Thanks!

[@HauntedSkys]

Got a strike eagle 1-6 for my m&p 15-22. Got the 2" cantilever.

[@timmcfarland3311]

I’d like to see a talk about elevation travel in scopes. For instance the first razor has 125 moa and the Gen 2 only has 70? They upgraded everything but went backwards one what counts for is ELR guys. Other 34mm tube scope have up to 130 moa of adjustment. I think they need to build another razor. The 4.5-27 is perfect mag range but make it with 140 moa of internal adjustment so we don’t have to add adjustable bases or spend more money on the Charlie tarac Thanks

[@MisfitOBS]

Great info! I know this is 2 years old but wanted to point out something you may have overlooked. I am not someone that prescribes to "lower is better". I tend to do what you suggested and thats to run the proper hight comb/cheek piece for a good weld. But, I do think it's important to note that if you are a hunter, especially those that hunt in the mountains or varying degrees of elevation and terrain, if you are not running a bubble level on your rifle and you are taking longer shots, the higher your scope is off your bore, the more canting your rifle is going to effect your POI shift.. I think most would be surprised at how your mind plays tricks on you when it comes to keeping your crosshairs level in mountains terrain.. So, taking that into account, I might suggest that you should keep it as close to the bore as you can without risking contact with the bell-housing if you are not going to run a bubble just to reduce any risk of missing..

[@jimothy-johnson]

Watch MDT's video on scope height, higher doesn't make the effects of cant worse.

[@mikewest712]

I got a Burris 3x9x50 e1, holy cow what an optic for the money. Something to add on a hunting rifle or a target gun; if you have a fast flat shooting caliber you can run a lower ring. If you are hunting/shooting with a slower round , you may need to go higher.

[@gsh341]

About the chart or rings/rifles/scopes/bases, the one thing that would be handy is if there was a chart or app that would tell you the shortest ring/base combo that fits that rifle. A 44mm objective might be just fine, but a 50mm objective might not work with those rings or base. For example, if someone has a Bergara B-14 Hunter and wants to mount a Viper HS 4-16x44 scope on it, what ring and base combinations can they use that will still allow the objective to clear the barrel? If they want to go higher, then they can use something taller, but there is a point where they can't go shorter. Another person might have a Bergara B14 HMR and the beefier barrel might require taller rings for that same scope. Or they might choose a Viper PST 5-25x50 and need a minimum height set for that scope. While it might not get the person the best possible scope ring combo for their head size and stock, it would at least prevent them from getting a base and rings set that won't work be cause it's too low for the bell.

[@Dmounts]

Do you guys have an episode on types of rings/scope bases and why they’re important? Cost differences and why? I’d not it might be a great episode? I’m making my girlfriend watch this currently as she’s getting more curious about shooting ^^

[@Yettiattack]

Set rings to your eye. Height doesnt matter. Lower setting has more negative effect than a higher ring.

[@jimmyjohnson6892]

Just picked up some Vortex Precision matched rings for my new Gen 2 PST 5-5x50 on my .308,got medium and yet to check,can return if not right

[@ArmedChicano]

I have a Ruger 10/22 that I just put into an A.R. 15 style chassis and I was thinking using medium size rings it has a Aire 15 buffer to so I’m over here thinking it might of a hassle on my neck

[@DustinSilva]

Just ran the numbers through a BC, 1.5 Height over bore was -354.74" drop and 1.72 HOB was -357.82", just using base numbers on a 150gr bullet @2800fps. Thats three inches guys, with .22" more HOB, keeping the same 100yd zero. Interestingly, with a 50yd zero, 1.5" HOB was -351.82, and 1.72" HOB was -347.74". a 30yd zero 1.5" HOB was -336.79 and 1.72" HOB was -329.76. That's nearly 7 inches! Nothing against the Vortex guys getting this wrong, but, thats a lot.

[@kengxiong7007]

Are vortex precision mount legal to use in California because of the quick mount release. Don't think there's any against it but had to ask

[@babagermany6654]

Thanks for the video. All things being equal, what would be an ideal height of a scope over the bore? I have a Savage 110 Hunter bolt action and I am using for now a PA deluxe AR15 scope mount 30mm to hold a PA SLX1-6x24 scope but I am finding it difficult to to get a good cheek position to get a good view through the scope even with the highest cheek riser which comes with the rifle, does this mean that the mount is too high for this type of rifle and I would need to get a lower mount? What would you recommend? Thank you

[@JimD4570]

What if you have the fat crabon barrel, like a CA ridgline or something like that, and a 44 mm objective with flip up scope caps? like a VX 6 HD or the like?

[@edwardhaayer3019]

Is a paper business card between the barrel and the scope enough clearance on a 22lr ?

[@constancebarch5458]

If your scope was in line with your bore(essentially a boresight), your near-zero would be at the muzzle and your far-zero could be at any distance you choose to sight-in at, I think.

[@amorton94]

In a vacuum, if there was no gravity to cause bullet drop, sure.

[@tomsterism]

Have acquired your Diamondback 4X16 by 44 riflescope to apply to a Rock River Arms Predator Pursuit AR with 16" barrel and full top rail. Do you think a pair of your medium-height rings would work without using the heavier and bulkier cantilevered base with rings? I am aware that both rings MUST be on the receiver portion of the rail. Would appreciate any perspective.

[@amorton94]

You should get a cantilever mount for an AR. Standard rings are going to put the scope too far back to be comfortable.

[@umami0247]

Make it comfortable for you that is the important thing. Cheek weld is very important for accuracy.

[@stevenlaxton3618]

I can't remember what they're called but on my 270 I'm running some scope rings that have a sight way under the scope to view the iron sights...they're tall yes but they're awesome when it gets a bit foggy or rainy or at closer ranges

[@donfrea]

See through rings

[@Treven-yk7sv]

Paper depending on types is roughly .004" and a dollar is average roughly the same

[@paulconner3623]

5x25x56 Strike Eagle on an AR10 , what size height rings , and ring type should I get?

[@TheEigerclimber]

284 WINCHESTER, 338 FEDERAL, 338-O6 ASQUARE/ACKLEY, AND 30 TC.

[@audieeggleston7817]

The most important factor in determining scope height is keeping your eyes level with the horizon. Period. Facial features (fat cheeks) and adjustable stocks will be factors that contribute to your individual needs. Keeping your eyes level to the horizon aids in acquiring a target, and aligning your eyes to center if scope. David Tubbs book address these issues, but most people still mount their scope too low.

[@aaron81931]

Does the persons height play into the descion on what height to use? I have a AR with your Razor HD E II, but no mount yet because I don't know what height to use. I am 6'7" with long arms obviously and a longer neck. Not like a giraffe but it is slightly longer than normal. I plan on using the gun for more tactical/action shooting on the range since I am military and thats what I am training for. Would this push me more towards a higher mount, if so how high should I go? Thanks for any information you can provide.

[@Flashhood1425]

I have a PST II on an AR... in a 1.5” mount that’s sitting on a 0.5” Yankee Hill riser... I’m 6’4” with a longer neck... for upright stuff this height is so natural to work from... leaves a bit to be desired in the prone. I did find my stock length helped (run one click in upright and bump it out to full when prone) to get a better “cheek/chin” weld. Not sure if this helps but it’s been my subjective experience. My next mount will be a true 1.93.

[@ericb6390]

With a persons height you would be dealing with Length of pull , which is roughly as you hold your rifle the butt stock should just reach the inside of your elbow, and for comb height can be different for many people,you would need to get behind your weapon naturally and comfortably with your eyes closed, then open your eyes and see if you need to go up/down to get good scope alignment, if shaded area in scope is top or bottom then you need to raise or lower, if shaded area in scope is on sides then you need to work on your positioning of cheek weld, form, etc..., if shade area in scope is equal all around but clear in center, then you need to move cheek weld back lil bit, once you have right you should have no shaded areas in scope when behind weapon system, you will also when doing this start at lowest magnification initially, then once finished should end on highest magnification of your scope to reaffirm

[@samuelsherwood298]

So its what ever fills more comfortable to the shooter ,example: if your tall and you fill your having to get really down in the saddle to align your eye and it hurts your neck , go ahead and getter taller rings . What evere makes you comfortable

[@deckerrichmond6055]

How do you figure out sight over bore for a ballistics calculator if you have a 20 moa pickatilly rail?

[@VortexNation]

Just measure up from the center of your open action to the center of your scope tube right about where the turret saddle is. That'll get you plenty close for what the ballistics calc needs.

[@patmcbride9853]

I got a Magpul chassis for one of my bolt guns and there was no way the existing rings would allow me to use the lowest cheek riser, so I had to add 1/2" to the optic height.

[@adamb2619]

Ruger American?

[@patmcbride9853]

@@adamb2619 Yep

[@NCsurfer607]

Have an 308 tikka rifle .bought an 3x12x56 hog hunter 2 scope struggling trying to figure out what height scope mounts to get ?

[@petera1117]

What did you end up getting?

[@francisco1469]

Can you do .17hmr?

[@chadillac95]

9:04 "americans will literally use anything but the metric system for measuring" 😂😂😂

[@shelterskelter]

Ironically my cantilever mount meant that I needed to dial to the bottom of my adjustment. Thus I have a hard zero and 100% of my up adjustment back...

[@rapidrrobert4333]

If close range targets are possible, mount scope as low as possible.

[@codyrivenburgh6007]

I'm in the low as I can get crowd.... All my scopes are as low as I can go without touching.... I'm all about barely sliding a dollar bill between the objective bell and barrel

[@playbytherootz4777]

Lower is goer

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

The hunting under 300meter category, is never really the exciting topic, but it is for sure the kind of shooting most hunters do. Lowest scope rings and bases, is the best option for this category. It makes for easier instinctive shooting at game over 0 - 300 meters.

[@jhamelin119]

2 lug bolts have entered the chat...... :scope bolt handle clearance- "am I a joke to you?"

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

Stick to the basics boys, thats what I always say.

[@alexberthgen1962]

Depends how big the scope is. If its 56 for example you need higher mounts.

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

@@alexberthgen1962 First I thought, well thats a big ass glass for hunting under 300 meters, but then again not all "occasional hunting" is done in bright sunlight like here in Sunny South Africa.

[@alexberthgen1962]

@@jonathanmitchell3733 yeah here in Sweden we hunt wildboar mostly in dawn or at night so for that I have a 56mm scope

[@bigbore4459]

Anyone using a cantilever mount on a adjustable chassis bolt rifle ?

[@freedomfightersresistance3960]

I have a 4-12x44 what size rings I need for my AR15

[@msquared9605]

Don’t do rings for an ar, get a cantilever ar specific mount

[@robertdennington798]

It's nice to have a rifle that looks good, but if it uncomfortable and you can't hit anything ,you might as well through rocks.

[@2000grover]

*** throw rocks***??? 😉

[@chug-a-lug6842]

When do we get more on the 6.5 bc

[@itsjustkevin6652]

Good info. Also that's a lot of spam

[@randomidiot8142]

Instead of saying low medium high, why not just use the actual ring height instead?

[@ralphgalbraith4142]

You can run out of clicks if your scope is too high

[@withoutfurtheradoforever]

Why isn't there any hot sauce next to the Spam?

[@VortexNation]

What kind of hot sauce do you think should be up there?

[@tomphillips2608]

Cholula and Dave's Instant Insanity for Magnum shooters!

[@scottmahony4742]

WTH Vortex I STILL don't know. lol

[@VortexNation]

Let us know any questions you have! Happy to help!

[@samuelsherwood298]

Cause a comfortable shooter makes you a quicker more accurate shooter

[@Rakkasan01-07]

Cougs in the background what who’s is that?

[@VortexNation]

Hopefully better late than never here....Mark B. GO COUGS:)

[@benjaminlechmann2071]

25_45sharpa

[@harperdr1]

Anybody else remember the older style scopes with the scallop taken out of the bottom of the front bell to clear the barrel so it could sit ultra low? If it mattered that much that would still be a thing. ...it isnt

[@reddawng43x91]

That was a high dollar leupold! And they really not that old! Prolly about 15 yrs ago

[@anon-yw4wd]

That woman in the backround looks like Sarah Connor from T2.

[@bokchow2594]

mechanical holds

[@dkaszubinski5330]

7th

[@stephenrussell1221]

High enough so your bolt handle doesn't hit your scope.

[@jerrymartin5100]

Rings need to be high enough so the scope doesn't touch the barrel on a standard rifle or handgaurd on an AR

[@reddawng43x91]

Bullets begin drop the instant they leave the barrel period! It’s called gravity! Bullets don’t rise ever! 😂

[@pepebeezon772]

You're mixing up speed and acceleration. I love when people correct other people incorrectly

[@JohnnyCarly]

9:45 - Don’t understand why he would recommend mounting at medium height and get a check riser vs mounting at low height with no riser. Makes absolutely no sense. So you want to go buy a cheap riser? You selling products?

[@oddmunddale806]

Boys that newer did any hunting don't know anything about hunting. To understand what you need for a quick shot with a rifle and a shotgun you need experience from the field, not from a counter. On a hunting rifle, you want to have the scope as low as possible. Not too low, 2 mm of the barrel is fine. If you plan for 1000-yard hunting you need to see a doctor, not a gunsmith.

[@tommyroberts867]

This was boring lol should have been 3 minutes