10th Edition Dataslate POINTS CHANGES - Sisters, Imperial Guard, Votann

[@alfred8936]

I appreciate the points cuts to Sisters, but horde-ifying the army doesn't fix the fact that their meltas still can't actually melta anything. Hopefully the Vahl-Paragon unit with rerolls can somewhat fill that role, although I'm sure we'll still see a lot of allies (which are only easier to include now that the army itself is cheaper). The detachment ability is also still way too unreliable to even feel like it exists most of the time lol

[@Redtecho]

Sisters still got nerfed because knights went up in price and got nerfed. True nerf to sisters armies past balance patch.

[@idonotlikethisonebit]

The detachment ability is a variable system tacked on a zero sum army (I.E you are either dead or alive, there is no middle ground

[@dinosuarman13]

Can't be a horde army anyway with only 1 battleline option

[@dittmar104]

Make castigators battle line and we’ll be fine 😂

[@pajoulrod]

I want to say straight off the cuff, due to the points drop of all those World Eater models/units I was able to drop one Enhancement and run the exact same list PLUS a Daemon Prince (an extra 200pts). MASSIVE points drop for my bois

[@mortaegul6241]

I think that the sisters' rule should be "Below STARTING STRENGTH"; That, or what Bricky said and change the meltas prfiles to "Ministorum Melta/Multimelta" so that any buffs on nuns's guns doesn't buff other factions.

[@kaid980]

The cold hard reality for Votann is that short of doing a complete re-write of the index, the only thing they could do to make us mid-tier is slash our points extremely hard and push our Army Rule to the limit. I hope they shift back to a more elite 9th edition kind of Votann. These Votann don't feel like hardy dwarfs anymore, we're height challenged Guard without the orders and worse tanks. Hopefully the 2nd Wave and the Dex brings some elite options to the table. The sad thing of it is, I see so many people in the LoV community saying they've been essentially priced out of 2k games now.

[@jasongarfitt1147]

Votann really need an early dex

[@eriktheos6022]

And they wont change index until their codex and we know that wont happen until next year at the very least

[@_gherf]

Good to know that Bricky still says “marikel dice”. Heals the soul.

[@slicemup9]

1:33 SHORT?! *That's going in the fucking book*.

[@JackDespero]

If they are going to keep the +1 +1, it should be BOTH +1 to hit AND +1 to wound below full strenght. It would not even that good (compared to other detachments like Aeldar), because most armies will focus fire effectively, but at the moment it is just completely useless. It would also somewhat address the problem of sisters having only pool noodles as weapons. The +1 to wound acts like a higher strenght weapon (even if the ap stays the same), which is what sisters are sorely lacking.

[@chrisbaldwin8570]

Easy change, change melta from +damage when in half range to +wound rolls instead. Would make melta go from wounding on 5s to 3s when close enough, that would be enough to bring back their old play style.

[@coldjustus]

I watched all the army spotlights on your second channel so thanks for bringing these little updates here Brick and DC gang!

[@kazamiagame3523]

For someone playing Preacher with Blade of Saint Ellynor and a full squad of arcos, I must say that yes, it's really fun. With the special ability of the Preacher usable once per game, you can really tear things up if used properly thanks to the enhancement

[@Ultr4l0f]

A very simple thing they could have added. 2 faith dice per command phase. Kind of like how Votann got a ton of extra grudges. +1 die is A very small buff, but it doesnt hurt the vallet. It doesnt hurt the feel of the army. Like... sisters shouldnt be a full horde. That goes against the feel (better than guard, worse than marine) that we want. I would also like better LD. Fanatical nuns. Their army rule, and detachment rule, is literaly "die for the emperor". And they fail 50% of all LD checks. Add some S to repentia. Or give them anti-tank atleast. As a old school player, chain fist was dedicated anti-tank. Their swords haveing 4+ anti tank would be awsome. I would also support what many others have said. AT (not below) half strength for detachment. Buffing meltas (anti tank/monster? Add S below half range?)

[@WhoHasMySoap]

Thicc brick gaming

[@Redtecho]

Thicc Bricc?

[@WhoHasMySoap]

@@Redtecho yes

[@thedinotamergaming]

1:31 SHORT!?!?

[@sirdragdord701]

Also Straken have baked in full re-roll. In my first game on patch this dude just murdered Shadowsun. 12 damage on charge.

[@edgieststalker8141]

"Bruh mah Tau"

[@1Milo37]

"Let's do a small one. Let's do Votann." It's funny cause they're SHORT!

[@Dracowinges]

16:30 A guard player I watch is mordian glory. if that helps.

[@tyjames3339]

Some things to note for guard... With the points cuts a chimera and a catachan squad loaded with flamers is the same price as a hellhound and might end up being a better hellhound than an actually hellhound, tank commanders at 205 is looking hot since demolishers are imo the best russ at 200 points and for just 5 extra you can get a free order and shoot on death, rogal dorns were already strong, and now there is almost no reason not to take one imo

[@warwolf222]

Did you think I would not notice the accidental pun towards “Votaan also a short list…umm…” I’m glad you resisted the urge to capitalize on it. I would not have been so strong

[@demon1103]

Honestly I think an issue many armies had when it comes to 10th is simply that GW gave us only 1 detachment per army(except Space Marines...they technically got 6). If they didn't upgrade Death Guard's they would have been stuck with a garbage rule (ok maybe not pure garbage..but pretty lackluster) for who knows how long. Really wish they'd given armies "at least" 2 at launch so you could have choices. Also about what you said for the channel, I am all for it. While I love the battle reports (you guys are great and do pretty well editing it down), I'd also really just like to hear you guys talking about the hobby, so I look forward to what's in store for the channel.

[@vritraofthenite6988]

tbh, in regards to sisters, and a problem with alot of warhammer balancing alot is Dropping points on models is not going to stop the fact that the model's/unit's rules are not good enough to survive, sisters is in a rough place because so many of their rules aren't in a good place, but GW primarily thinks only really of "lets reduce points of underperforming units, and increase the price of overperforming units" which doesn't... Touch on the issue of those units underperforming, and NEEDING to take the overperforming units to compensate

[@LollipopKnight2]

I like the Guard changes; overall power wasn't increased much, if at all, but it gave us more reason to play a healthier kind of list. As you say, artillery is ridiculous in this game, and if it's ever remotely efficient for actual damage dealing, it's horrible for the other player. Now, the Basilisks are reasonable as utility pieces, but you don't really want to spam them; hopefully GW can find a similar place for the Wyvern and Manticore. I do wish that they'd made some changes to the Tank Commander; having a unit that costs as much as another tank to order a first tank is kinda absurd, when you could instead just outright take a second tank, given that the Tank Commander lacks any of the normal Russes' special abilities. I think that the Tank Commander needs 2 orders to be of use. You can get one of them with the Grand Strategist enhancement, and it's reasonable at that cost, but it's hard to justify more than that. I also wish that the Guard had an adjustment to the Born Soldiers detachment. Our rule is basically useless for anything but artillery, and GW has rediscovered, correctly, that artillery spam is terrible for the game. Returning to the positive, one good thing you didn't touch on is the substantial drop to the Chimera. At 70 points, it's a tempting infantry wrapper, especially for a Kasrkin squad or something.

[@jasongarfitt1147]

Wyvern should have dropped, it's still terrible. Manticore going up is fine but it went up a bit too much. Overall my list dropped 200 points

[@LollipopKnight2]

I would agree with you on the Wyvern; it would sit more appropriately around 65-70. I think that the Manticore is basically fine, though I could see a smaller cut. I think that the Heavy Weapons Teams should get cheaper as well, maybe on the order of 40 points or so; their mortar fire is pretty nice, but they're very readily wiped out by any counterbattery, and non-mortars are basically unthinkable, as it's just asking for them to be torn apart. I'm a bit biased, since I just finished some Field Ordnance Batteries, but I'd also like to see significant cuts on them, back to 100 or so, with more drops for the direct fire,@@jasongarfitt1147

[@chaoticzer0]

The sisters detachament rule needs to be changed for sure. Personally it would be cool if the +1 to hit was all the time and then an additional +1 to wound when half or below. Least that way you would have something going at all times.

[@FunnyTaco143]

I was running a preacher and command squad with 20 Catachan but I might just swap the command for Straken so then with his attacks he gets sustained hits.

[@ElMuffin22]

1:32 SHORT???!!!

[@Bobcatx2]

Votann players: We're so back.

[@JackDespero]

My problem with sisters after the slate is two fold: - The only somewhat competitive side of sisters is now full vehicles and many micro units to do secondaries. - While in a vacuum the faction is better than before, with all other factions getting much better deals, the power level of sisters have dropped significantly. I would put them bottom 3, if not the very worst faction at the moment. I honestly could deal with the second point, but the first point is what kills me. I want my vehicles to support my infantry units, not the other way around. I do not find enjoyable to play a list of sisters with 3 castigators, 3 exorcist, 2 immolators, one sisters of battle to hold home objective and then crusaders and assassins. Maybe a Vahl and 3 suits if you feel spicy. Finally, Triumph with the sisters, giving area of effect to the tanks. Sadly, that is the way in which most competitive lists are going because other those units, you are just playing with a hand behind your back: Retributors should have dropped to something like 75 x 5 models (I won't repeat the math I put in so many comments, but comparing them with other similar units like Fire Dragons, they cost from twice as much to 4 time as much per damage point inflicted, and they are half of resilence per point, not to count differences in mobility, etc), Sacrosants are still extremely expensive, while having a useless shield (they should be 2+, period. Needing a specific character to get what should be their normal save is pathetic, because the cost is way too much for what they do). On top of that, before the slate, I used to play a knight to deal with anti tank, which allowed me to actually play more of my favourite sisters units. But after many point nerfs and the slate, I do not know if it is even worth anymore. I have put my sisters on the shelf for now, and I will play with Tau more, since now I actually have have some infantry mix too, and that has opened so many possibilities. Much more fun to play, because points decrease actually helped them to go into the playstyle that I like with Tau.

[@saintpres4ge533]

1:30 "...short list" "SHORT? NO ALLIANCE!"

[@franpschorr3646]

Best thing sisters have is crusaders

[@erikm6941]

I love using Battle Sisters. I played a 1000pt game yesterday so I kept them on the back with a Heavy Bolter and a Hospitaller leading them. Fought Custodes and they lasted 3 turns against Termies, was a great time

[@gamewizardx]

What Termies do sisters have? Are you meaning pargon?

[@saintpres4ge533]

@@gamewizardx They were fighting Custodes that had Terminators, which is probably the Allarus Custodians since they have terminator armour.

[@brandonrobertson9468]

with the votann points drops i was able to add in another land fortress & a squad of bikes into my list. bananans

[@christopherclayton5500]

I would love if Below Half Strength was reworded to include things at exactly half strength. I think it intuitively makes more sense, and it would make Battleshock come up slightly more often.

[@Redtecho]

The true nerf to sisters was a reduction in the effeciency of knigths.

[@slyoldowl]

Hey brick its ben from palms springs tourney. Earthshakers and medusas got nerfed by 60% those were the best. Rapiers were trash. Manticore got a 25 pt increase All tanks got the best point buff now they are easy to spam including mech infantry. Hope to see you in so cal tourney. Setinels point increase was expected gives me a reason to use armoured setinels. P.s. gaunts ghost op peekaboo strats

[@reginlief1]

Liking this just so bricky might see it

[@magicalawnmower4764]

yeah there was just some things that needed dataslate changes and not points. DG could stand to be more elite and not just cheap bodies (admittedly I have played against pre balance DG and if you're a good player and make use of the terrain then you can get into the opponent and not get moved, plus anti infantry flamers are super nice

[@thefloridaman41]

Honestly think I am jumping from Daemons to Votann now because I don’t want to have to wait 3 years for mono-God to get rules. I think Pioneer spam lists being able to secure that early CP might be brutal.

[@thebarbarianninja4152]

GW gave a points drop for every square inch on bricky's beautiful 4head

[@sontony1695]

The cuts to sister hurt me cause it lost 200 points but then noticed that the combat patrol fills the missing points and if i kitbash a Exorcist out of the rhino so Gw saved me money

[@samjohnston5877]

37:37 you’re gonna Kahl it?

[@LuLu408f]

This video is not late Bricky. Let your soul rest.

[@SeekTheMoon201]

State of sisters is really sad ... no dmg, no durability, mediocre movement, a Detachment rule that you can basically never use and characters you cant put in the squads you want to put them in. But at least I now can put more trash on the table. Ty GW!

[@edgieststalker8141]

"If i wanted to drown someone in the corpses of my units then I would be playing Imperial Guard, not *[insert under-performing army here]* "

[@matthewmiguel2319]

Even a +1 to wound on melta weapons v monsters and vehicles would go a long way

[@stuartlittledrowning4965]

You can almost guarantee activate your detachmeny on your whole army turn one against admech! They cant even choose to not use their rad bombardment. You get to choose everything vs an admech opponent! Still very niche example.

[@chrisbaldwin8570]

The detachment should be in two parts. Inspiring Martyrs - +1 to hit activates the moment any unit in the army dies. Sacrifice and Suffering - +1 to wound should activate when a unit is below full strength.

[@JackDespero]

The +1 to wound below full is so important. At the moment it is completely useless.

[@Ultr4l0f]

+1 at below half is fine... if your playing a lesser opponent.

[@chrisbaldwin8570]

@@Ultr4l0f That is sort of the problem. Even against armies like Tyranids or Space Marines Sisters doesn't really have the durability to make use of the detachment rule. Since it isn't a universal rule, they should change it for Sisters to be +1 to Wound if Unit is below Starting Strength, to at least maybe sometimes see it in play at a table.

[@Dramatic_Gaming]

So I invested in a Sisters army near the end of 9e. My 2k points of Sisters is now ~1300 points. Sucks. I think the biggest issue for Sisters is that their two strongest points (melee and meltas) both got nerfed coming over to 10e and they didn't really get anything to make up for it. Point drops are a kind of cynical way to address the problem IMO cuz it's mostly just GW saying "MORE MONEY PLZ" to make your army not suck.

[@JackDespero]

Thurga gives dev wounds to MELEE only. You probably know that when you say that you would play her only with sacrosants, but it is important to point it out, because sh eis basically useless anywhere else. Also, pretty stupid that for sacrosants to get their 2+ they need the imagifier, but they cannot have an imagifier and thurga at the same time because only SoB allows two characters.

[@greenbloodcrusade1378]

With Sisters it's not just the detachment rule, the whole army lacks teeth. Damage output into meaningful targets is impotent at best.

[@Streygenmoment]

Played a 2k game of votann against Necrons. I killed a monolith turn 1 and won the game

[@jasongarfitt1147]

Definitely agree that it should be "half and below" rather than "below half". Would be a nerf with battleshock but would be worth it

[@KingIngrish]

Leagues of Votann.... short list hmm? A dig at them only being just lil guys?

[@matthewlaxon828]

Thank god KZbin told me this was posted so I can listen to it after lunch lik

[@unga_bunga_fgc]

I still think that Sisters need more melee buffs. That's not even Bloody Rose fan inside me talking, we also no longer have Passion and War Hymn, and 3 of our 6 sratrs only work in melee.

[@gadflycafe]

Can't wait for CSM!

[@ChrisMarti96]

How do you play warhammer on table top simulator

[@eriktheos6022]

Whats funny is that I honestly dont think the changes to Votann will realistically do much. They still have almost no synergy with each other. No range, really slow, melee still sucks, mediocre ranged attacks, the characters can barely join anything and give mext to no benefits and their leadership blows. The way the tokens work, only a portion of your stuff will actually benefit from it. You can only get plus 1 to hit and wound after all so heavy, the ironmaster plus 1 to hit and units that already hit on 2s have no benefit from it. Right now the tokens allow them to function normally hence why a Kahl is a must have. What will probably end up happening is that people will spam pioneers to get the early VPs and those CPs from their army rule and hearthguards to teleport into objectives and play the VP game. Right now, theyre not elite, theyre like a slower guard

[@b0nes329]

Leagues of Votann now Rock and Stone

[@chipmercury]

Hey Bricky, rock and stone! 😄 As a fellow Votann player and commission painter I'd love to work on your Space Dwarves! (I am based in Canada tho, idk if that's a dealbreaker)

[@wombataldebaran9686]

Short?!

[@vritraofthenite6988]

tbh i wish battleshock and everything else was half or below cause like by the time you're "below half strength" in most units, you're uh your unit is probably dead lol

[@tracesosebee5485]

For Dominions, I take quad melta with palatine and dialogus for lethal hits and miracle dice shenanigans

[@dev2301]

We can't double leader on dominions, only BSS :(

[@chrisbaldwin8570]

Illegal unit. Can not combine those two characters with Dominions.

[@sethbacon7490]

I think the points increase to FW artillery and manticore was too hard. If you brought Krieg infantry and some scout sentinels, you aren't getting much back in points cuts. I get that people don't like arty, but it was the most competitive way to play a 40% win rate army, and even a medium park of 4 arty got punished hard.

[@Haste444]

I really don't like how it feels like James Workshop is making a lot of armies feel more horde'esque, Votann and Sisters being two of those.

[@snowconesyrup]

That's the problem with trying to balance things by dropping points instead of actually addressing the issues. like when deathguard which is an army whose identity is supposed to be defined by durable medium and heavy infantry is considered a horde army something has gone very off the rails.

[@sirpieman300]

i mean, sister and votann where never really supposed to be elite armies

[@reginlief1]

@@sirpieman300cite your sources for Votann.

[@Haste444]

@@sirpieman300 Sorry I was more or less saying Votann was supposed to be elite, at least that's how it feels GW was touting them at launch

[@Haste444]

@@snowconesyrup DG got some decent help with the current data slate but they have a long way to go.

[@CRC735]

I was just like brick with the sisters drop in points

[@Solaxia]

Deathstrike - AM I A JOKE TO YOU?! Is there any real use case for this anymore?

[@buryitdeep]

That thing should cause an armour save to every model within 12"

[@HippoKing.MP3]

Bricky Pog Bricky Pog

[@thanksskeletor4812]

Nefing guard artillery wasn't needed at all, it's just that the other stuff was WAY over costed. Now artillery (other than basilisks) are basically worthless even for casual games. The earth shaker has DOUBLED since release....

[@CMTechnica]

Good. I’m tired of parking lots

[@GrayFirion]

WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE Bricky got my like.

[@Memanruler]

WIDE BRICK

[@MarcyRatwoman]

The good thing about sisters being bottom 3 is that we get to cry and complain on twitter now

[@race21forever]

my votann list dropped 365

[@arandommantotallynotnamedd8527]

Wiiiide briiiiick

[@curtibell5147]

If Sisters are going to be pushed to horde we should get 20 woman squads

[@skylermuncy2218]

Biggus Brickus

[@Anjerious]

Bripples

[@gaetanhillion8342]

As for me, i can't still believe the Sisters were the one army, where a unit disapear -___-". No more classic celestians... Hell, they managed to make the cultists decents in a anti-character ways, why not the celestians ? And the retributors lost their meat shield and faith dice generator too -___-". So for them the detachment rule is pretty useless...

[@americanman3745]

Have yall considered doing a list review of subscriber's armies? We send yall our list, give your opinion and maybe some adjustments, pros and cons?

[@theangrylizard2711]

Get bricked up

[@MrSteelface96]

wasd