114 STAGE TWO! THE TRADEOFFS! NOTHING IS FREE!

I have discovered that the stage two 114 motor has it's issues. Not just gas mileage.
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[@henrydelo5075]

I had the exact same issues with my stage 2, 107 M8. I installed a Red Shift 468. After one month I pulled it out and went back to stock. After much research I installed the Fueling 405 cam.Very close to stock but better torque and better sound. Runs much better than stock, very little vibration and gas mileage almost the same as stock cam. I'm fortunate enough to be able to do the cam change myself, reducing the expense. I'm 80 years old and ride 7,000 to 8,000 miles a year. I do get the old rider thing.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

That is a lot of miles. Wow! I put this channel up for guys like us. We might be old but, we know stuff.

[@mbraun777]

Good info about that cam. I will investigate for my own needs. It is enjoyable also being one of you old timers that know stuff. It's very relaxing and rewarding.

[@JonnyPinelli]

I Just Installed the same Cam! S&S 465, bike is a RGL 2021 and it has VH slip on, Arlen ness big sucker air filter and I took off the catalyst... bike was Dyno tuned using tuning dongle.. I am very pleased! got lots of torque on the entire torque curve.. same with the power... bike used to have 75 whp and now 101 whp and had 107 lbf torque and now 127 lbf... the ride felling is amaizing, bike sounds great, not too loud, just a little bit more than before... and, my mileage got better.. I ussually ride at 75-80 mph and bike used to make 40 mpg and now it maked 46 mpg...

[@nhzxboi]

I just did the S&S 475 plus plate and pumps on my '23 FXLRS 117 a month ago. That took me a day to do...wasn't bad. SP Concepts 2->1 exhaust. Did tune. I love the lope the cam yields. No leaks and it runs/sounds great. I admit, it is a bit loud. I was concerned about the milage but on my first check, I got 44mpg. I'll check again but that surprised me. I'm only 55y/o so I love the vibrations and the loping idle :)

[@thomasbaker5668]

This is good info, as I upgraded my oil pump and decided against the stage 2 torque kit….like you, I’ve made a few circles around the sun, and I have the stage 1, and it performs well enough for me

[@besinb09]

You make some great points that most people don’t talk about. I experienced everything you talked about when I did a Chris Rivas 464 rocket cam. Thing was rowdy but was too loud for my ears and sucked gas like crazy. I switched to SE torque cam and I love it. Prob the mildest cam other than stock I think. Sounds similar to a stage 1 but slightly more lope and pulls a little harder but nothing crazy. It’s a great happy medium imo and my mpg is back to normal

[@CGB65]

Yep, there are always trade offs. But if you increase valve lift and air intake you will burn more fuel. It makes sense. Thanks for the straight forward and honest review.

[@dennishardy4402]

I have the softail lowrider st. 117ci. Love the smoothness from all,rpm. Thanks for the warning.

[@harryhowell5644]

I had a 17 ultra limited that I did a full stage 2. So I know a lot of what your talking about. I did the SE torque cam I believe it is the 447. It's milder but it was loud but still very smooth. My oil pump went so I did all S&S internals with the torque cam since I already had the SE wide band tuner, and easy flash and go. I now ride a stock 21 road glide limited and do enjoy how smooth and quiet it is. Another thing you didn't mention was the throttle response changed it was very twitchy after the stage 2. Almost like a sport mode. I did love that bike and the torque came in handy riding 2 up expecially in the hills. Didn't notice much difference in the gas mileage.

[@WhiskyJackR]

I used to have a Sport Glide and I went Stage 1 with a Street Cannon. The bike definitely rode better and I didn't need to drop a cog as much on gradients. It was just too loud for me. I preferred the sound of the stock exhaust. That experience stopped me doing any stage upgrades when I traded up to a Street Glide in 2020. Also I have heard that fuel economy can get hit hard when you go to a stage 2 and above. I love the stock 114 Street Glide, it's smooth, powerful enough and the exhaust note is just at the right level. I am also an older rider, hitting 60 in a few weeks. It's good to hear your upgrade experience warts and all, nice to get a candid point of view without all the upgrade hype 👍

[@swiss9632]

71 for me this year.

[@bobstevenon9525]

I did the S&S 475 cam in my 107. Gas mileage stayed the same with a good tuner. it did get a lot louder and I didn’t know that was going to happen. Love the lope it put in the idle but could do without the extra noise. Now I where ear plugs.

[@georgeleone1668]

Thanks , great job on the video and the info, definitely food for thought.

[@ryanlackey7122]

New subscriber…can already tell I’m gonna learn a lot here. I’m riding a stock 22 RGS in the heat of Naples, Fl. Thanks for the content!

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Thanks for tuning in! I'm not always informative. Sometimes it's Rallies or riding in Sturgis.

[@lawtondevil]

The screaming eagle 447 Talk cam got a little lope but is still real smooth when riding it tames right out once you give it any throttle

[@glenvanderhyde9822]

Hey 👋 thanks 👍 for the honest talk 🦜 & for sharing your experience! Indeed if you're old... then it also follows you are wise! 😊 Hope 🤞 you get the bike sounding & running 💨 how you intended Man from UK signing off ❤

[@kevinskurat9196]

I'm 66 years old, and I just put a 480 cam in my 2023 Road Glide 3, which is the cam actually recommended for trikes. While my trike is considerably louder, the engine now sounds much more like a Harley should sound, in my opinion. I'm actually getting ready to put quiet baffles in my Vance and Hines Eliminator 400s because it is a little too loud for my personal liking. It's not so much about the decibel level, after all, it's about the "lope". When HD went from carbureted engines to fuel injected engines, the sound lost its original greatness. I love EFI and all the benefits, but when it comes to Harleys, while they do run better and more efficiently, the sound has sure gone to crap. A bigger cam remarkably improves that sound. The loping definitely makes the EFI Harley engine sound more like the Harley carbureted engines of old, which I love. Any added vibration, to me, at least, is completely unnoticeable, so that's not a thing. I've also noticed no cranking/battery issues at all, either. Fuel mileage, when it comes to having added a bigger cam, will generally not be a mechanical issue, but will more likely be a rider issue. Adding a bigger cam will generally not decrease fuel mileage. In fact, it can INCREASE your fuel efficiency. However, with the added torque and horsepower, what do we riders do, of course? We gotta get into throttle, don't we...lol. So, obviously, when you ride 'em hard, they tend to drink the gas, of course. And, the bigger cam will cause the engine to suck more air AND GAS when you get in those high RPMs. So, having said all that, in my opinion, the added torque and added horse power in the low and mid ranges, which gives you added quickness and improved maneuverability, and the great sound you get from a stage II upgrade, outweighs any negatives and is definitely worth it.

[@BikerJim74]

I'm glad I stuck with a stage 1 now. thanks for the info

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I wish I had seen my video first.😎

[@skipblack9981]

I put Stage 2 in my 2019 Trike and got similar results, but it ran hard (scratch the tires when riding 2 up in 2nd gear). Super fun to ride.

[@drifter2341]

agreed 100%. Its loud. I feel guilty to my neighbors every morning when i fire up the bike. I keep the stock cam in case i want or have to go back to stage 1. Without trying stage 2, i won't know stage 1 is just right for me

[@johnmeixner488]

I also did a stage 2 on my 2020 road glide, I also experienced the same gas mileage issue and rough idle. I was using the FP3 tuner. And it just was not cutting it. I had to go to a Dyno Tune and give up the FP3 tuner. it was well worth the trade off.. also more horsepower and torque. I enjoyed your video keep up the good work.

[@manmeetsharma2632]

Did the fuel mileage improved after the dyno tune? I purchased second hand Softail slim 107 with power cam, only getting 230 KMs from fuel tank ...

[@johnmeixner488]

@@manmeetsharma2632 Yes, I now get 225 miles per tank.

[@jeffwinebrenner8932]

i have the S&S 465 in my 2019 Tr Glide and love it

[@cheeng1]

Great info. I get about 60-65 mpg (180-200 mi/ 3gals)on my 114” Lowrider S, been thinking about the Stage 2 cams…I’ll pass on it.

[@DFrost61782]

Great information. I was planning on a stage 2 but after this video I think I will stick with the stage 1

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Good choice. I would get a tuner though for a stage one. Lose the Cats and richen up the motor and you will add a longer life to it.

[@bderryberry4987]

Your correct about all the issues when going Stage ll. I did that on my previous bike and along with all the problems you point out- I could never correct the lifter clatter at startup. My new 114 is bone stock and runs just fine with no mods!!

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Yep, that is a problem.

[@jeffreyengle2762]

My 2019 Road King got a baker manual P-chain adjuster… and a stage 1 with some 4” Rinehart’s…. And a load of comfort mods, full Legend suspension, air ride seat…. That 107 works just fine for this geezer. Pulls a nice cargo trailer with all the “geezer” camping gear…😊😊

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I'm looking into reverting back to stag one.

[@kpnomad7]

I wondered about pulling my camper"rollahome" if internals/Trans will hold up! But think your right , plenty hp stock!

[@pairofdogs]

I’m 76 and riding a Triglide for two years 114, it’s in the shop now for a Harley stage 2 power up grade, pretty much the opposite of a torque upgrade, power and torque don’t start til about 4500 revs, hopefully this will keep my mileage close to stock.

[@chopperg9443]

I have a 2023 Road Glide ST (117) with the stage 2, S&S 475 cams, with the Tab performance w/ zombie baffles. I have to say I love the combo. She rides and feels great and rides like a beast. As far as the gas issue, and the vibration, I really did see much of a difference.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

The 117 just stock Is a great motor. I can’t imagine a stage 2.

[@ronjanowczyk8441]

What tuner did you use?

[@chopperg9443]

@@ronjanowczyk8441 screaming eagle

[@MarkR973]

Good afternoon, Mark here from Nj, hope all is well... I recall when cvo's were fitted with the 103 !!!... and they were marketed as being high performance rides, my how times have changed.. I'm getting the Highway king 114 in magenta which looks purple in person, and leaving it be, never liked loud bikes especially on long distance rides, personally I won't need more power, I had a 2002 road king classic for years and had to do a stage 1 on it due to getting caught in between gears at speed when doing around 45-50, it was really annoying, afterward I was ok with that 88's power, so the 114 is gonna feel very fast to me, as well, I want it to last a long time, boring them out will reduce engine life, especially if your always leaning into it. Since I like to putt putt around and take in the scenery, kicking back and enjoying the ride, I'll be ok with it, I'm gonna love it.. just going to be adding heated grips and front lower chrome sliders, which Harley should have done.... btw, as a mention, I owned a Honda interceptor for years too, it was my speed bike, that gets old, have since sold it, handled great compared to all Harley's, but hated how it rode, not only that but speed kills and fast bikes like fast cars want to be ridden fast. To me, a Harley is not and was never about high performance or being fast, baggers don't handle like sports bikes, gotta be very cautious riding at high speeds on a badger, I say get a hyabusa if you want a heavyweight beast, but everyone is different, do what you love, as for me, I want it smooth and comfy for all day riding.. and I want good gas mileage, be well !! Ride safe!! See you all out there!

[@arielortillo8774]

good to know thank you for the info bad azz ride

[@TheGammerguy]

hey man, just had to say this video offer a lot of InSite that i never see on youtube, I've watched several vids about stage two but no one talks about these points i appreciate this to the point vid i just got a fat bob I'm sticking with stage 1 now.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I am just sharing my experience for everyone. Thanks for watching.

[@BigSmittyRiding]

Yeah, your gas mileage should be better than what you are getting. Stage 2 is a great upgrade, hopefully you can get the gas mileage better with a different tune or tuner. Good video!

[@craiglawson663]

Agreed. Something sounds wrong with the tuner...I have Stage 3 and get better gas mileage than what your getting.

[@MSM1956]

I put in the HD power cam in my 2020 Road Glide Special along with the Screaming Eagle tuner, and Rinehart slip ons and have none of the issues you're referring to. I can easily get over 250 miles to a tank, love the responsiveness of the throttle, and enjoy the rumble of the engine. Go see the new service manager Dan at Addreneline

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

My Stage 2 SE Torque cam setup on my fat boy 114 was getting absolute trash gas mileage and I kept chasing problems as to why and it turned out to just be the tune. Someone sent me their map from their Fat Bob 114 with the SE cam, and it fixed the fuel consumption problem. AFter 2 tanks of gas and the ECM automatically trimming itself to the setup, I got phenomenal gas mileage especially on the freeway/country roads. If your gas mileage is really bad, a Dyno tune is needed.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

What tuner are you running? I have a Thunder Max.

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 Powervision 2B

[@Robert-dl2jv]

Good information

[@RealSuperRando]

I went with the Stage 2 Harley Davidson SE447 torque cam for my 21 RG Limited. Big increase in torque pull, love it. It’s got a little lope to it but still smooth on throttle. The HD cam is well engineered to the bike. Didn’t notice any difference in mileage. 46-48 all the time. Since I put on the Fuel Moto non-cat header and a Power Vision it’s even better. Very happy.

[@Old-n-slo-locked-n-leaned]

How does the SE447 do under low rpm/low load conditions; I.e. a steady 15mph in first gear? I have a RS468 and it’s choppy below 2000 rpm with light throttle. Thinking maybe going to SE447 because that choppiness really bugs me as I have a 1 mile entrance road to work that is 15 mph.

[@kpnomad7]

Debating tuner, got hd auto tuner works great but like to go aftermarket cam!

[@deanbalouris330]

I did a stage 4 build on my ‘08 FLHTP. Bumped it from 103 to 107, S&S 585 cams with matching valve springs. Ported heads, intake manifold. It’s a monster build, but it shakes to the point that screws vibrate loose and some plastic body parts have cracked. I rode my buddy’s street glide two weeks ago. He swapped to 107, but everything else is stock. It was a stark contrast. His bike is very smooth.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

You never know what's really going to happen when you crack the cases of a stock bike.

[@paulson9616]

Sometimes it is better to leave alone but... with HD, it's absolutely impossible. Lol. As far as your neighbors go, I hear you.

[@CVO_GUY]

I just turned 72 and am a new subscriber. I've got a 2016 CVO Limited and live maybe 25 miles north of you. Maybe I'll see you on the road someday. Thanks for the video.

[@dannycisterna5497]

Thanks for the honest review, I'm a stupid old man too lol, your bike sounds great, but I'm gonna stop at my stage 1

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I would stop there as well. Unfortunately I had no choice.

[@jamescurnutt1628]

My wife and I just sold our old punched out Road King and bought a new Road Glide Standard after renting a 107 Road Glide on Maui for the exact same reasons as you suggest. We are not young. The 114 was an extra $6000. We couldn't justify the added cost. The smoothness and comfort of the new bike is just so enjoyable and it might be faster stock than the Road King that has big jugs. We have upgraded the suspension, seat, bars, added Rinehart mufflers, pegs, and added a tour pack. A nice stereo will be next. It is all about comfort and dependability these days. We didn't realize how much a two--hour ride can just beat you up. Peace.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Riding the bike is what it's all about. You two enjoy the ride. I miss Mrs. Geezer riding with me these days. She only rides every now and then.

[@nelsongn9]

Nice job sir

[@mitchguenthart8238]

I have the S&S 465 in my 2020 Road Glide and did not experience a major drop in miles per gallon. I used a FP3 tuner, it took Vance & Hines a couple of try’s on the mapping but they got it right. I love the power and happy with the cam kit. The idle is more loopy than I expected but got used to it. For your starting issue have your Tuner guy check the automatic compression release setting to make sure it’s not switched off. When we put a Fueling 465 in my friends bike he screwed up the setting when setting up his tune and the bike would hardly crank over, he was using a Thunder Max runner. Easy fix on his, live and learn.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I'll have him check.

[@MrMurphc13]

How do you mean by the idle being loopy?Did it make the bike much louder than the stock cam?Did it add chop to the sound?

[@pmh1nic]

I’ve been through the more power, louder phase of riding but after getting my 2022 Lowrider S I’m very satisfied with the stock 117 M8. Whatever boost in HP and torque you can get from a stage 1 or 2 isn’t worth the compromises you mention.

[@charlesharper7292]

Cam changes are always a tradeoff. Set a goal for what you want the bike to do, and go find an appropriate cam. Work with the timing too. I know lots of riders are playing the name game, but have a look at Harley's SE cams to see if they may have something more to your liking. I've got a 2022 Street Bob. Stage 1 is as far as I'm taking the bike. I'm 65. I started riding at 12 and was racing by 13. I quit racing at 28. I've been very fast on bikes, but this new Harley is fast enough for the street, and a joy to ride!

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I wish my stock cam hadn’t failed.

[@charlesharper7292]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 I worked for Harley Davidson for 19 years, and have seen a couple M8s loose a cam.

[@HDFXSB645]

​@@HarleyGeezer1954 Harley doesn't sell the stock cam? I wonder if you could get a stock cam from a motorcycle junkyard.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

@@HDFXSB645 Probably. It is just finding one that is useable.

[@vincentmcclain9307]

Older rider myself 2020 RoadGlide S 114 stage 2 SE Tq cam full Vance & Hines power duals with a ventilator Elite AC Se pro street with smart tune. Did run this set up on a Dyno 108 HP /124 Tq smooth and cool I get what your talking about stage one smooth quiet .This is my first build all SE except exhaust.Stock I was getting 310 miles per tank now I’m getting 295 miles per tank.Good luck going forward.Unless you tour a lot you do not need a smart tune.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Thanks. Someone suggested getting it Dyno tuned so I am checking into it.

[@TheBlueBikeDoyle]

Oh yeah I noticed my battery lagging some to lack you said when on compression stroke. It little cold in morning here. But I keep it on tender year around by August the battery be 5 years old . Moto blonde put battery in there bikes that I'm going go with

[@SCBiker58]

I am 65 and have a M8 114 Fatboy with V&H Short Shots. I had my dealer upgrade to the Screamin Eagle Pro oil pump and support plate and also the S&S 475 cam. The bike pulls hard and sounds amazing but damn it’s loud. I am using a FP3 tuner and the dealer ran it on the dyno in auto tune for me at no cost but my mileage is around 38 riding local and easy not much highway. I am pretty sure I have dropped 7-8 mpg. I talked with Andrew at V&H about my plugs are black and he suggested using more auto tune sessions. I got a handle bar mount so I can set my phone there and watch the blocks populate and hopefully go green. He seems to think this will bring up my fuel mileage more. Plan to try it next few weeks.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Well, I have no blocks to look at like the FP3 but The longer I run it the way I ride is supposed to help.

[@MilesOn2]

Man 300 miles to 200? That's some good mileage. Everything has a trade off and I think it just depends what are you willing to give up to get. Maybe check your compression releases to see if they are working? I think the bike should be able to turn that motor over easily even with that cam. Good video and audio was clean with that microphone set up you use.

[@derfskittlers6125]

That's not right. Most guys with a 114 get around 230 miles, cam or not.

[@aymanalmadani4663]

100% agree on losing the smoothness I had 114 then moved to 117 stage 3 it has annoying vibration and the bike is jerky honestly I regret the upgrade

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Me and you both. Take solace in knowing the engine will have a longer life.

[@roadkingrider6532]

Just getting ready to finally get a stage 1. Going a bit over kill with it and having them do a full dyno on it as well. My goal is a stage II , but you definitely have given me some thought about staying at 1. Not sure I want to lose that much mpg with the touring I’m wanting to do.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I'm thinking abouut going back to a stage 1. I don't really dig into the stage 2 power for the way I ride.

[@glenoneil3074]

I'd pass on dyno$$$ and put it towards stage 2. Doing a 2 this winter on my 114

[@zacharydunn5847]

I have a 21 road glide and never got over 260 a tank. I recently done a stage 2 power cam and I am still getting 260 a tank. I do a lot of easy and hard riding thru mountains and city streets I have no issue.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I've learned it depends on the cam and how much lobe there is.

[@Slartibartfast70]

I paid 7.59 in Ludlow Ca. enjoy what you have.

[@RGHD912]

Best stage 2 S&S cam is the 475, get a good dyno tune and your gas mileage will improve!

[@stevetomblin9007]

Just traded in a 2012 cvo ultra for a rg limited. All stock except a slip on. Get about 250 miles a tank. Bout to take it to moonshine and get their stage 2. Mhp cam s&s, cam plate and oil pump, trask aircleaner & trans cover, mhp intake & injectors, mph compensator, clutch springs, their tune, 2-1 exhaust. FUCK THAT GAS MILEAGE!🤣🤣🤟🤟🤟

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

To each his own. Have fun.

[@biker_trash582]

I had the same issues with my bike when I did the stage 2 . I went with the Red Shift 468 with the thundermax tuner ,also upgraded the throttle body. Got a new battery with 500cca and the bike starts just fine now . I'm from the same area as you been to Dan's a few times.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I'll check out the battery.

[@FXFBS23]

Which exhaust did you pair with the Red Shift? I am looking at RS cam, but I want to make sure it gets paired up with the right exhaust choice and tuner (also not sure how critical pairing the cam with the exhaust is, I just heard some guys on Tube saying that it was...)

[@biker_trash582]

@@FXFBS23 I have a full sack header pipe with wide band o2 . You can use your stock heat shields . I have a Thundermax tuner . The absolute best exhaust would be a 2 into 1 . At minimum your header pipe needs to have wide band o2 censers .

[@kpnomad7]

I really liked the rs468, but mpg hurt on highway trips! Currently se447 on new bike 20 ultra , it works!

[@yojohnny5]

Good stuff Harley Geezer. Had a softail slim with 107 and stage 1. Did not at all feel underpowered to me, but just traded in on a 24 Fat Boy 114. I can't imagine needing more power, but I would just like a bit more depth to the exhaust note. Contemplating between SE and VH eliminator 300 and stage 1 with tune for the fat boy but I don't want to change anything about the way it's fueled right now. Was considering throwing in a stage 2, but nah. Even now I'm almost considering leaving it stock (it's that good... to me). I just wish it had a little more bass/volume lol

[@ronetuley]

I too installed the Stage 2 kit on my 2019 M8 114 and noticed my gas mileage did drop a little. I rode the bike for year 18,900 miles on it, no change in the gas mileage, didn't get any better or worse. Last year, I installed the Screaming Eagle 131" kit with Thunder-Max tuner and D&D exhaust system. Woo Wee what a difference in torque and acceleration. But... my gas mileage really went to crap and the bike is a killer with heat while at traffic lights. If i had to do it all over again, I would stick with the stage 1 and enjoy the bike.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Stage one was also my favorite.

[@user-vw7qe1cf9x]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 Level-headed opinion without any sales hype. Love it! What helped me when I put in the SS 475 cam was I also added a BD reduced baffle. Cut the sound down a bit and provided a little more back pressure. I would say to try this to see if it is more to your liking.

[@FXFBS23]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. I went down the rabbit hole looking into Stage 2 choices for my Fat Bob and now I need to really think about all the effects that you mentioned. I don;'t tour on it, but the tank is only 3.5 gal as it is. New '23 bike with only 4k mi . I will put more miles on and then consider it. And maybe i'll wait until the warranty expires. I have a stage 1 on now

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Thanks for watching. Yeah a 3.5 gallon tank is small. If you go with a stage 2 at some point make it a mild cam with a Screamin' Eagle tuner. It is not too much more than a stage one but will richen up the mixture and save thee engine.

[@FXFBS23]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 Thank you

[@user-vw7qe1cf9x]

I always enjoy your level-headed older rider content. Ha! Im hitting 60 at the end of this month so I guess Im now an older guy. Humbling, to say the least. I just did the SS 475 kit and sounds great, hauls great, love where it kicks in in the power band. Mileage is worse, but Im thinking I need to get it properly tuned instead of just downloading a map. I'm also looking for a new battery. Was thinking the Advanblack Powerbox lithium with 1,000 cranking Amps (when they have them back in stock in a few months) or the Banshee lithium with 680 cranking amps (which I can get off of amazon now). What are your thoughts on these two batteries?

[@derfskittlers6125]

My two cents are, if youre going to take the 465 out then put in a smaller cam, not the stock one back in. The tune afterwards is equally important.

[@hhplymouth9473]

I rode a Ultra Limited with a stock 114. I understand why you wanted the stage 2. I felt it needed more torque. I ride a 2003 VTX1800R. I Harley terms it is a stage 1. It has 95 HP and 118 for torque at th rear wheel. It is also lighter than the Ultra. It averages 31 to 32 MPG. The one advantage it has on the Harley is that it runs on regular. That saves me about $.50 or more a gallon. I wish you luck in getting more MPG from your bike.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Thanks,it’s a quest.

[@FrankBonessa]

I have a '23 Low Rider S 117 and my gf and I took a ride into the Idaho back roads and I was amazed when the bike was getting about 50 mpg. Want to get an S&S 475 just for the lope at idle. But, I really don't want my gas mileage to tank. As of now,I have a TBR 2-1 and SE tune. Not optimal for the pipe, but it was installed before I bought it new at the stealership. Pulls hard for 700 lb. bike. After your assessment, probably going to skip the cam and get PowerVision tune. It will still get with the program. Thanx for the info.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I just try to let folks know the possible down sides. The combo of the Thundermax and the radical cam tanked my mileage. It's a bucket of fun, but yes the mileage sucks. All tuners and cams are different of course. Good luck and thanks for tuning in. Much appreciated.

[@harleyed6830]

I’m a firm believer in using a battery maintainer, always a full charge, some might say it extends battery life.

[@iMaNii4k]

Or buy a nice battery that doesn’t need a tender hooked up to it

[@NawD]

You’re right.

[@jamescollins5073]

Nice video, I personally think that the stock cam is more of an all-around performance cam that has more of a rumble than a lope. I popped out the baffles and cats from my stock slips, on my 21 bob and installed some 258 Thunder Torque Inserts. The bike runs really well and has a nice rumble at idle, but was contemplating a cam swap to maybe a Redshift 468 to make it sound like a Harley as they say. But sounds like its not worth the cost of reliability.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Cracking the motor open is always a gamble.

[@johnnythiroux3304]

Volunteer Audio sells them. They are expensive but it's well worth it.

[@blaineloustaunau5816]

If you want horsepower you're gonna pay for it.

[@kpnomad7]

My 17 ultra with redshift and tmax avg was 37 on interstate, my 20 w 447se and hd auto tuner avg 40 on interstate! Batters garage says about 40 is about right on m8! Enjoy!! Ride safe!!

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I'm learning that all tuners are not created equal. The hard way.

[@darrenlingerfelt5879]

I’m happy with my stock 103 motor. To get more power and torque, you pay $$ in so many ways.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Indeed you do.

[@johnholbrook6042]

If I need 140 hp I will trade for a Yamaha FJR

[@MightyMike55]

Just the video and opinion I needed to make an informed decision

[@lawtondevil]

Should have went with the 447 screaming eagle cam. I got one in my 22 road king and it’s just enough

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I may rethink the entire thing.

[@frederickking1660]

Tuning makes a huge difference.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Indeed. I have a great guy who is licensed with Thunder Max and I have met with the Thunder Max folks personally in Sturgis. There aere also many other factors. Thanks for watching.

[@user-ej5bd4oq5v]

ANDREWS 25 cam is perfect plus the thundermax auto tune i mentionted earlier.

[@bigblue3568]

Put Andrews 48H in 96" .... nice improvement in HP/TQ went from 42 mpg to 36 mpg.

[@TheBlueBikeDoyle]

I dont thank mine shake more but idling sounds so good. I rode more Conservative without the jack rabbit starts. I was able to get 44mpg. Yeah and the tune at cruising at 75 on interstate is louder then I would like . But you can't beat how much funny it is now

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

What tuner are you using?

[@TheBlueBikeDoyle]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 not he built the tune and fine tuned it on his dyno

[@buck_the_atlas]

I'm not old and I'm more than than happy with my "boring" old stage 1.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Yeah, if I didn't have too I would have left it alone.

[@Roadglide117]

Good morning, I was thinking of a stage 2 on my road king and looking at different options. The Harley torque cam looks like a good option. Riders that have it seem to comment on the smoothness and good torque increase. Although as a fellow older rider I'm mostly satisfied with the stock setup. Thanks for your review of the 465 cam. That's one I was considering.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I just have to learn to keep my wrist out of it.

[@bradlozano2571]

​@@HarleyGeezer1954 No worries....I am an older rider too and i cant keep my wrist out of it either...🤷

[@billreynolds2221]

I agree with your assessment of the factory stock 114. I had a 2018 heritage and I also thought the engine and tranny we’re brilliant right out of the box. I’m an older rider too and left the stock mufflers on because the refinement of this bike just didn’t need loud pipes. I only traded because I couldn’t do the cruiser riding position any more. Bad back. I got a bmw r1250gs to replace the heritage.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Thanks for watching a Harley channel.

[@surfczar]

I went Stage I on my 2019 Ultra yesterday. I'll sit with that for awhile, but yours does sound nice. Do a full tune on yours might help your mileage.

[@surfczar]

Back here after my Stage II upgrade. I added the upgraded oil pump, and took out the stock headers, and put Rineharts on them to match the slip ons. I did a tune after a 1/2 hour ride in info gathering mode ride and my gas consummation is like 225, 230 a tank on my 2019 Ultra Limited. Yeah it's loud, and not a lot of vibration.

[@chasingexcellence2246]

Hell I get that stock but I rip it everywhere I go.

[@kurtfirestone2761]

You can run a stage 2 cam with stock exhaust quieter

[@matthewowen6730]

I would recommend changing your exhaust system one that will give u good back pressure before u retune .

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I have the RInehart 4.5 with a standard baffel. It is supposed to have good back pressure.

[@texassasquatch6467]

I have a stage 2 on my 2020 FLTRK. Mine is all screaming eagle. No issues with gas mileage that I can tell coming from a stock road king.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I have heard the SE is the way to go. At some point I might swap it out.

[@texassasquatch6467]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 coming from a stock 114 to a SE stage 2 is awesome. It feels like the whole power range shifted from 3000-4500rpm down to 2000-3500rpm or something like that. It puts the power right where you want it. My new bike is a RG limited and I tested out how far I could go on a full tank the other day at highway speeds and I got about 225 which is pretty much the same as my old stock road king.

[@Stevvros]

A good Dyno tune is way to go mate

[@gregorr1404]

I am sticking with my stage one on my 2021 SG

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Good move.

[@gregorr1404]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 I’m like you I like smooth ride. I have the neighbors haters on but they are pretty quiet when I’m getting out of the neighborhood. I feel if I get cam and stage 2 all bets are off

[@felixsilva7863]

Screamin eagle 447 torque cam sounds like the right cam for you and it would have probably been cheaper depending on the dealership you go to.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Probably.

[@barrylimer3732]

You need to get a tune on a Dyno after putting in a cam with a stage 2 to realize the most performance enhancement with better gas mileage and run cooler

[@naturalforlife6741]

I would never do a stage 2 on my 2022 Heritage Classic. I did a stage 1 on my 2018 sportster and the bike runs great with just a little bit of more gas. I'm keeping my Heritage stock because I love the lower level of sound and the great gas milage. I put some S&S slip ons on the Heritage and took them off. I have Rush slip ons on the sportster and I love the sound. I don't know if it's just the difference between the Evo and the M8. The M8 just doesn't sound as good as the Evo.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Everyone has a favorite sound from HD. I think the Twin Cam is my favorite although I ruined it with a 2:1 with headers. A big mistake. If you are happy with the stage one that is the best place to be. Getting it richened up will save that motor. A good tuner and some good slip-ons solves most issues. Thanks for tuning in!

[@carlbruhn1772]

I have zero negatives on putting a complete stage 2 on my RGS. The fuel economy dropped 5 mpg using paper and pencil math. The onboard estimator shows a loss of 3.

[@dieselsoggydog6299]

I looked into doing a stage 2 with that S&S 465, after my research I decided not to do it for all the draw backs. Since I do a lot of long distance touring on my RG Limited, I need that 50+ mpg more than extra power and sound.

[@loopertrooper6671]

Whoa, that’s a good point. Thanks for the reality point.

[@RevJay_Rides]

A little off subject here, but it sure would be great if we could find a place where you get the temperatures of Florida and the twisty mountain roads of Tennessee at the same time.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I am looking at riding Northern Florida near the Georgis border in 2024. I am told it is the best of both worlds. We'll see. I lived in Tennesee for years and it has great roads. It has cold icy winters though.

[@LJ_AF]

What made you decide on that cam? Why not just go with the Screamin' Eagle Torque cam? Thanks for the videos.

[@chasec7509]

I have a 21 street glide special stage 2 447 screaming eagle cam, rinehart full catless exhaust dbx45, screaming eagle tuning from harley, I'm getting average 50+ mpg.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

What tuner are you running?

[@chasec7509]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 screaming eagle tuner right now. Warranty was up in January, I plan on having it dyno tuned soon as I get a chance.

[@chasec7509]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 I took a 90 mile round trip today. Town driving, interstate(80mph) and highway speeds around (55-65), stop signs, red lights, passing, just driving normal. Here's my numbers average speed - 52mph, mpg average - 54.8, 1.64 gallons used. I run 93 octane only. I have over 9k miles on my bike 8k miles on stage 2 upgrade. Something isn't right on your set up if you're only getting 200 miles to a full tank.

[@Crimepaysaskapolitician]

Every time you pull in your garage put the trickle charger on it. I usually get three years service from a Harley battery.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Mine has always been on a genuine Harley trickle charger.

[@Crimepaysaskapolitician]

@Harley Geezer you have a problem then. The battery isn't struggling to turn the cam, now if you've added more compression that's different. But the battery should easily turn the engine over even with...

[@thecamdenyard]

If your bike is under warranty do a Stage 1 and leave it alone!!! If your warranty is up or you’re not worried about maintaining a factory warranty go with aftermarket parts and dyno tune!!! The parts and results are night and day from EPA compliant Screamin Eagle. ( even a good aftermarket dyno tune will net way better results with SE parts!!) Why crack your factory engine apart for minimal gains?? Whether it’s SE parts or aftermarket you still gotta buy the parts and buy the tune…Maximize your hard earned money!!! If you’re going to build your engine build it right the first time and be done… at least until that isn’t fast enough 😂😎

[@jbolin75]

New subscriber here. Thanks for the info, I'll stick with my stock engine because the gas mileage and loss of smoothness would bother me. One question - what mic is that? And does it transmit rider to rider? I'm impressed with you having no face shield yet there was zero wind noise. I picked up a SENA set and there was so much wind noise without a face shield at least that they were unusable.

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Thanks for tuning in Josh. Stay with the stage one. Definitely. As far as the mic, It is a very cheap very tiny headset mic from Amazon. What you're hearing is the wireless Go2 into my GoPro Hero9 with a massive amount of wind control. I'm an audio engineer and I had to look at every aspect of the microphone and what was recording it. It's complicated. But thanks I like that you can hear the clarity. I may do a private video for anyone interested in the setup.

[@eastcoastganjafarmers85]

I agree with a stage 2 you will use more gas especially if using larger injectors. And if your really on the throttle a lot. But if you have a proper tune you should actually have better gas mileage (when not riding aggressively) when riding with others with stock tunes I get the same or better gas mileage. I would recommend getting the bike on a dyno and tuned by a professional. I have a 117 with s&s 475 cam ,larger injectors, D&D 2-1 exhaust. And my gas mileage is great. Are you using a generic tune ?

[@kpnomad7]

Good advice! Nice combo you got, I just figured more fun more juice, but dyno tune is best suggestion!

[@dalmaciomorales2798]

Thank you for the information. BTW what kind of equipment you are using for moto blogging?

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

Here is what I do, kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHWUgXmhgbKJZ6M

[@songdogsniper3678]

Should have went with the screeming eagle tourq cam and tune. Love mine.

[@nelsongn9]

I’m new to your channel. My bike had a stage 2 when I bought it

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I have nothing against stage 2. I just wanted everyone who is thinking about spending the money to know the pros and cons. Thanks for stopping by the channel. Subscribe to the channel if you liked this one. I have 178 more on everything from rallies to product reviews.

[@nelsongn9]

@@HarleyGeezer1954 my 1st Harley. 2013 ultra limited with 103 motor. I was wondering why my gas mileage is a little low. Now I know

[@RoadGlider1839]

Just replaced my battery after 2 years HD batteries don’t hold up in the heat.Bought a HD lithium less weight better power

[@HarleyGeezer1954]

I did the same with a 5 year warranty.