115: The Strange Ownership Problems with the Kirtland Temple (Part 3 of 8 Hamer/ MacKay)

[@andrewgardner1535]

As an LDS, I am extremely grateful for my brothers in the CoC. Thank you Lach for your kindness and friendship.

[@GospelTangents]

I just deleted a bunch of comments from LDS people insulting my CoC friends. I don't tolerate anti-RLDS-ism any more than anti-Mormonism. Don't do it. It's unbecoming of a follower of Christ and I won't tolerate it. (I'm sad I didn't know about some of the comments sooner.)

[@kitiowa]

With respect is there some less drastic way to address those kinds of things? Pointing out how unbecoming something is goes a long way I would assume.

[@brygasm]

Seems as though the RLDS didn't piss off everyone around them like the early LDS did.

[@bobbyc.1111]

they broke off from the LdS church, like the 7day adventist and the centennials and FLDS and many other churches. and th eLDS church didn't piss people off. People did that on their own mainly because porbably preachers didn't like that Joseph preachers have to labor by thier own hands and not be supported by their members pocekt book

[@kitiowa]

@@bobbyc.1111 They didn't leave the LDS Church. Brigham Young organized/incorporated his Church in the Great Salt Lake Valley in 1847. The "Josephites" were Saints living in the Midwest, East, and British lands who by and large were not ever affiliated with the Brighamite Church.

[@kitiowa]

@@MrArtist7777 The RLDS faced all of the hostility that any part of the movement faced. The difference is that they triumphed in the face of persecution to reclaim the Kirtland Temple and get the Major Part of the Temple Lot. It reëstablished the Church of the Saints where Joseph Jr. had originally been and prophesied of. It triumphed where the Brighamites fled.

[@kitiowa]

@@MrArtist7777 My religion has hundreds of millions of adherents and isn't diminishing in the least. It is expanding in all parts of the world. Negotiations for the Kirtland Temple are sure dragging as I have heard that story for over twenty years now. Your Church can't "buy back" the Kirtland Tempe as your church has never owned it! Most of the land in Independence is privately owned by the people who live there and the businesses there. It is telling that when the LDS church decided to build a temple in the region it went for a site miles to the North. It does own a fraction of the original Temple Lot and it certainly could have used it's parcel to build a temple. The speculation I found most salient to why they didn't build in Independence is that it would necessarily contrast poorly with the Peace Temple. Community of Christ has a temple open to all dedicated to peace. A Mormon temple across the street closed to all but members with a Temple Recommend doesn't look good. When comparing the LDS and CoC there is more evidence for divine leadership of CoC. It regularly canonizes revelation. The LDS does not. Even the last two entries in the LDS D&C don't have any air of revelation, and that is over a century. I may go in 6 weeks to see what God has revealed to the Prophet/President and watch it be affirmed by the Church. It is inspiring to see a church let directly by their God.

[@kitiowa]

@@MrArtist7777 I don't have any president whatsoever therefore hasn't talked anyone whatsoever. I am not in any way kidding myself about what I am part of. Do tell- what part of my religion to you claim I am kidding myself about? The LDS church has wanted to buy the Kirtland Temple for most of it's history. The pertinent question is why haven't they? It really is laughable that someone from the LDS is thinking Community of Christ is shrinking. CoC is not only not shrinking it is currently experiencing a swelling in the Western US from ex-LDS. The LDS is in the midst of what it's own leadership is calling the greatest apostasy in it's history. In modern parlance being ex-Mormon is a thing. Case in point is the CoC Salt Lake City congregation which a few years ago wasn't meeting weekly and was down to something like half a dozen members. It is now a thriving congregation. The first Prophet/President of the CoC claimed to speak with Jesus. The first Prophet/President also said his son would serve that same position. That is precisely what happened. There is no relevance to whether Joseph Jr performed Joseph Jr's ordination. Community of Christ has an unbroken lineage of baptism and PH from the establishment of the Church in 1830. CoC's authority is by no means solely vested in Joseph III or blood lineage. Joseph III accepted ordination from the Saint's Church as Joseph Jr had said his son would succeed to the Prophet's office. That Joseph III was ordained by Saints other than his own father is a demonstration of the continuity of the Church after Joseph Jr. If the Brighamite faction really were the legitimate successors then one would expect every member of the twelve to concur AND the remaining member of the Presidency. That Brigham Young had to circulate the story of people seeing Joseph while he spoke tells us that it wasn't straightforward that the twelve took over leadership of the Church. Of course the clearest point we have that Brigham Young established his own new Church was what he did when his faction reached the Great Salt Lake Valley. He had everyone baptized into HIS new church. The LDS church was founded in Utah in the late 1840's whereas the Community of Christ has an unbroken lineage to 1830. I am always striving to greater wisdom and to truth. When it comes to the Restoration Movement it is abundantly clear that Community of Christ is the most valid expression. It is the Church Joseph Jr was instrumental in founding. The claims of the LDS aren't at all compelling or persuasive. Community of Christ does have a compelling presence in the world. By all means listen to what Community of Christ has to say about itself in addition to what it's detractors have to say. I offer blessings to all.