12 Gauge Explained

[@karamellkungend2444]

It’s Friday, I’ve cracked open a beer, pheasant hunt on Sunday and TGS uploads a new video. Life’s good.

[@SM527]

This is a really good summary of modern 12 gauge cartridges for both beginners and long time shooters. However it is perpetuating a myth that seems to have taken hold among some. At about 36:40 discussion starts on the difference between the CIP and SAAMI specifications for shot cartridges. The CIP is a proof STANDARD for both ammunition and guns that is a legally required consumer protection in the countries that have adopted the standard. (like the UK and most of Europe) The SAAMI is an industry controlled set of recommendations that has no legal status. Even ammo & gun companies that are members of SAAMI are not required to conform to the recommendations and are under no obligation to reveal testing results or indeed if any testing has been done at all. In short the published SAAMI specifications are a marketing tool and NOT a proof standard. The SAAMI specs are not acceptable for ammo & guns to be sold in CIP adopted countries.

[@buckshotaaa]

Well done JC, what a totally clear and concise presentation of all things 12 gauge/bore. I reckon you've covered all aspects of this round that anyone from beginner to expert would ever need to know. Cracking video mate. 👍

[@jonathanellis8921]

I'm going to have to rewatch the end of the video because of your dog. He looks as British as you sound and it's hilarious. Great job on your presentation. I always look forward to seeing your videos.

[@dpark7512]

I would love to see more use out of the 16ga. I wish it was more widely marketed and embraced. It is the perfect cartridge between the 12 and 20 in my opinion.

[@thevoyageur2152]

I see no need for anything but 12 and 20 gauge. In my opinion companies are wasting time making anything else.

[@jrhunt414]

As much as we would like 16 or 28 to be successful the problem is that 12 and 20 offer more. There just isn’t many load choices out there. A 3” 1 1/4 oz 20 can outperform a 12g field load. And most 16 loads are a 1 oz load. 28 doesn’t do much more than a 3” 410. When 3.5” 12g came out it killed 10g for waterfowl and steel loads. If 12g can do it then any other gauge can’t really compete.

[@Bitis11nasicornis]

Another amazing video, I even learned a thing or two. I also really love learning the differences between North American spec ammo versus European spec ammo. As a 16 gauge fan, I will argue about shot stringing. It has nothing to do with length of time it takes for that string to travel, as much as the flyers you get the longer your shot string becomes. 20 gauge is the gauge I honestly HATE hunting with, as a massive result of this issue. I have tried every shot load available, every choke I have and all 4 or my 20s but my Winchester Model 12 20 gauge for guns, and I have the same results. I always hit the meat with a random flyer, or have weird inconsistencies with my 20s. I have sometimes the same issue with the 12 gauges guns too. Just far less frequently, and I just find I don't generally need that much lead down range to hunt anything or that added weight and recoil when upland game hunting. So I chose my Royal Bore or the Genetlemens Gauge for many reason. Practical experience on hunts with every gauge but a 32, 24 and 10 gauge have taught me a lot. .410 is the bird crippler, 28 is the underrated underdog that needs more variety and versatility. 20 gauge is great for beginners, but overrated now that it's the most popular gauge. 16 gauge, the 20 gauge for men, and the gauge of the perfectionist is far better than most will give it credit for, largely due to how few hunt with it. 16 gauge shines as the ultimate hunting gauge for versatility, and should have its own class for competition. 12 gauge is the we already know gauge, and the gauge everyone compares everything to. It's best suited as a defense shotgun and military/law enforcement to be honest, but is also the most versatile gauge on Earth which is why everyone and their dog has one. It's the most popular cartridge in the world, outside of maybe .22LR or 9x19mm Luger. Their is nothing as common as those three cartridges world wide. 10 gauge, well they killed versatility by making only 3 1/2" shells exclusively by mainstream manufacturers, and weight, so 10 gauge is dead. It's a shame considering it's way better then the junk 3 1/2" Magnum super recoiling nobody likes this 12 gauge shell. I honestly don't know anyone outside of the off waterfowler or turkey hunter who use those 12 gauge 3 1/2" shells because of price and recoil, also a worse pattern. Many grab their 10s or 3" 12 gauge guns instead. At least from what I have seen, with advancements of semi-auto 3 1/2" 12 gauges a lot could have changed.

[@Ads-nc4yv]

Thanks

[@peterparsons7141]

You nailed it. Lots of great information for shotgunners. Glad to see the information presented rapid fire, because it’s easy to hit stop, and go back 15 seconds when focused on a technical detail. I would recommend this video for everyone, interesting and entertaining. Good reference and because I’m a lifelong shotgunner I’m always interested in my hobby, and always learn new thing about old stuff and new stuff. Does that dawg hunt ?, when I take out the Hoppe’s or a box of cartridges and my golden retriever is stuck to me like glue. Great vid.

[@tgsoutdoors]

Thankyou The hound hunts bin more effectively than anything I have asked him to track

[@bitore62]

If you can get your hands on some 12 gauge handicap loads for 23 -27 yard us trap handicap. They are light load, 11/8, 8 or 71/2. Way less kick and super tight patterns. If I shoot standard trap loads at 27 yards I need to shoot full choke. I can drop down to modified with handicap loads. When shooting 300 rounds a day it definitely keeps your he'd in the game and your shoulder in line. Great videos by the way.

[@parrisgeorge9708]

THIS video should be on a loop in gun shops and gun clubs because it would answer so many questions and put to bed a number of "debates".

[@duncnz9128]

Good stuff JC . If you are using an older shotgun , just check the proof marks to make sure you are using the correct length cartridges . A 1 1/8 oz stamp probably indicates the gun is proofed for a 2½ " shell , a 1¼oz stamp is for a 2/34" shell , get it checked by a gunsmith , The gas from Nitro glycerin in double base powders can cause the blood vessels in some individuals to dilate and cause head aches . If your gun is causing you headaches it may be the ammo not the recoil .

[@sherizaahd]

Fine, I'll subscribe. I resisted for a few videos, but what the heck, this was too good! More factory tours please!

[@tomemery7702]

Really enjoy long format breakdown videos like this. Fantastic presentation, camera work and explanation. Learned a hell of a lot. More of this please 🤙

[@james-wb1jr]

Another amazing video. it’s nice to have informative videos alongside entertaining films. It is important that new shooters in particular understand what is actually happening when they shoot their gun and if nobody makes great videos like this how will they know. it’s fantastic you take the time and explain and pass on your knowledge so well

[@edyu21]

Enjoyed the detailed information. Thank you.

[@nickl8247]

Bloody Hell Jonny, you are a shooting nerd in a good way. Really enjoyed your synopsis, so keep up the good work.

[@tonyemans4512]

As a new clay shooter that was very interesting, learnt some history and current facts. Thanks for that.

[@spotontheroad1]

Superb video. Very clear, concise explanations. Enjoyed it very much. Your lovely dog's expression suggested he was hearing it not for the first time😉😂

[@tgsoutdoors]

That was his happy face

[@timbell7893]

Great explanation and a lot of great information that I did not know before. Thanks.

[@switch666.]

I was just looking at cartridge videos and this pops up on my feed. Well timed Mr carter! Im sure another brilliant video ahead!

[@grahambates2681]

A well presented & Interesting clear insight.

[@mr2gordons940]

If you've ever read Ed Zern, this gem of his is illustrated here in this video quite well. I likewise identify closely with it. Bore, n. Shotgun enthusiast's synonym for "gauge" ; everybody else's synonym for "shotgun enthusiast."

[@charlieedwards7762]

Great video learned so much!

[@dgoodman1484]

Watching that shot disappear on your table was mesmerizing! lol I was hoping you had a basket under the table though 😁👍🏼

[@richarde.normus8563]

Excellent video. Thank you

[@ardenpowers7730]

Great stuff ! Thanks for sharing . . .

[@danjamison3727]

Another great video JC

[@MichaelAnsell1842]

Brilliantly informative.

[@keithmasek2855]

Superb video yet again. So Informative for new and established people in our sport.

[@davidbetts480]

Thank you Johnny, I have found this video very interesting.

[@olegmamontov5692]

Thanks a lot Sir, what a great video full of knowledge. I just started trap shooting last fall, but keep coming back to your channel to learn new tricks. Maybe i'll try 1 3/4 sorties this weekend, but i usually only get 12-17 out of 25, you can laugh.

[@osua6a]

The level of gun nerd in this is epic! Fascinating video 👍

[@jamesemson1529]

Great video Johnny, would love to hear more about 1200 US = 1350 UK. As a canadian of a certain age, I can do most Imperial/US/metric conversions but would like to understand the difference in 😂

[@tgsoutdoors]

the technical aspect of it confuses me as i have read a few description all slightly different

[@roddersross5758]

Interesting video - learned a lot

[@jeffreese4194]

I like your take on velocity. I like carrying my 20ga but here I can only get max 1220 fps shells. With 1300+ fps and the same sight picture I don't miss behind nearly as much. The flight time to target has to matter!

[@ericwood9182]

I see you have a knife on the table to cut open shells. I use a cigar cutter. Works slick!!!! Easy to cut just the top crimp off to reclaim components when reloading or you can cut the shell just above the brass like you did in the video.

[@jeffdavis3248]

That is a good looking Basset hound, as always a very interesting video.

[@JamesChurchill3]

Those Hull Extreme Hunting 50g shells are pretty brutal on the shoulder. Good fun though!

[@andybegbie8553]

Beretta made a silver pigeon S in 3 1/2" I've got one, bloody brilliant!

[@coldandaloof7166]

The agilla mini shells are mainly used for increasing the capacity in pump guns and semi autos, but thier reliability must be tested in each gun. My experience is that the sometimes work and sometimes don't. I stick with 2 3/4" 00 buck in my pump gun with slugs on the side saddle.

[@paulwilson7234]

Another excellent video, every day a schoolday.

[@jonnycarterfan]

Too bad Florent wasn’t available to give an example of 2 inches

[@Bunduki]

HI John 40 fps faster or slower could be argued all day long , in the end it's either a hit or a miss at a clay or live bird , the gun has to be in the right place, you only need one pellet to break the clay in competition. Keep up the good work.

[@bep357]

Aguila mini shells do you blokes in the UK have those? Or weatherbys?

[@simonthomas5113]

Just regarding the 2" cartridges bit, I had good results with the Eley Two Inch 12 ga from Just Cartridges with an AYA Yeoman, but as you say they are hen's teeth now. £470 per thousand plus £50 delivery made them a bit of extravagance for me though.

[@glennandersen4748]

What do you think about the pure copper shells for bird hunting. I like them but not the price😅

[@justacentrist4147]

You forgot the 12 gauge. 1 3/4 Minni shells lol. Idk if you folks get these things over in the Uk. But in Canada and the USA we do. They are practically useless as a bird shot cartridge but the slugs and #4 buck shot loads are alot of fun especially out of a break action gun.

[@ChrisUKFF]

I love a fast cartridge. Dark Storm Onyx are my favourite (1600fps), but I save them for a treat due to the cost.

[@alexdudley8617]

One of your best!

[@davidnewland2762]

Great video ..newish to shooting so newbie question. Would the speed of the cartridge alter the lead required for clay targets?

[@tgsoutdoors]

For sure, but it’s negligible at modest ranges and target speeds

[@AdamsClayShootingGuide]

There is a chart available online. If it is to be believed, the difference in time, to an average distance target, is about 0.01 of a second, per 100fps difference in cartridge. There is no way you could measure that difference in perceived lead.

[@sebastianhabel7312]

Hey British shooters, I have a question: I understand, that you can buy repeaters and semi-autos on your Shotgun Certificate, that have a capacity of 2+1. What if you can put more than 2 of the mini shells in the tube? Is this still legal? Of course, whether the gun will cycle mini shells reliably is a different question. Thank you guys, great video!

[@TMFShooting]

Great Stuff 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

[@redlightbulb]

Been shooting steel all season eley VIP eco wad 32g 5s been brilliant had one of my best seasons out. Black gold steel 34g 5s yer not so good leaving the barrel dirty and thick with tar off the wad rubbing and sounds like I'm firing a howitzer. Think gun next to me left with brown trousers. Just my thoughts. On what iv used so far.

[@kcstott]

Actually from what I’ve done research on CIP has higher pressures than Saami The vast majority of saami loads are below 12,000 psi or 827 bar. In the US we really don’t have anything that compares to your high performance steel. Most of the loads in the US are equivalent to standard steel loads.

[@tgsoutdoors]

Interesting. Different to my research, but it bears a few hours time to learn the truth

[@martinsteven2643]

Is the Hull Hydro Wad available in lead shot or only steel for game shooting?

[@tgsoutdoors]

It’s available in lead, and is a pretty epic load

[@stevemaynard9003]

What is the name of your basset hound friend ? We had one called Casper, they are real characters. I used to do a lot of home loading in the 70's and early 80's on my Lee Loadall. About half the price of purchased ammo. However, this later changed which made home loading uneconomic.

[@dgoodman1484]

Yep. Components are now crazy expensive. I just saw an add for bismuth shot that was supposed to be on sale and it worked out to $3 US an ounce 😞

[@Chris_P_Bacon0788]

cartridges nowadays are just a product of marketing. I’m pretty confident if you put 5 equivalent loads from different manufacturers 99.9% of people won’t tell the difference; it’s all in the mind. Same goes for chokes. There are only handful of cartridge component manufacturers out there and everyone buys from each other.

[@andyhill8312]

Hi, a great video as usual. On the subject of speed if you are clay shooting and using 1500 fps (hull superfast) and then change to 1375 (hull comp x) would the amount of lead Change with a faster or slower shell?

[@K80Ed]

No

[@boygeorge3204]

Great video, good for someone who needs a good intro into the subject of cartridges, but did you cover high pressure cartridges and how you need to check if your barrel is rated to fleur de lys?

[@sigismundauchinleck]

Love your pooch!

[@isacsuurholma7826]

Bought a 2003 silver pigeon S, there is no steelproof mark on it. will it be fine?

[@JamesChurchill3]

It will be fine for non-high performance marked steel shells, regular nitro proof is (I believe) fine for steel unless using HP shells.

[@harpoonlouis]

If no fleur de lye on your gun don't fire high performance steel cartridges or any steel with more than half choke. If Damascus, no steel at all.

[@ifell3]

Really didn't think you could use slugs in the UK, would that not come under a FAC?

[@ChrisUKFF]

Yes. They're restricted to section 1 license.

[@ifell3]

@@ChrisUKFF is that because their flight is better with a rifled barrel or because they are defined as a bullet?

[@ChrisUKFF]

Honestly I’m not sure. I think it’s that’s they only have a use in the UK for large vermin (foxes). It’s illegal to shoot large game using them.

[@thatgearguy]

Because sporting cartridges are available under the following exemption "(a)cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds ·36 inch in diameter" which was put in place specifically for those with SGC. Anything falling outside of that would be section 1 (such as slug and Buck) or section 5 if it has no civillian use (such as a breaching round or less lethal).

[@ifell3]

@@thatgearguy that's an awesome reply, thank you. But 00 buck, the classic you know what is still ok?!

[@coldandaloof7166]

3 1/2" shells are unnecessary in my opinion. 3" 1.5 Oz loads are plenty for Turkeys or Geese at reasonable ranges

[@mallardcutter7209]

Each cartridge has its own place . I know very few people who quail hunt with a 12 but will carry a 28 or 20 gauge all day in the field.

[@beeboop1726]

But the point of this video is if you are only to have 1 shotgun the best choice would be a 12 due to the versatility. You can hunt everything from small game to large game with it and the cartridges are the cheapest when compared to the rest.

[@williemickbillie]

the mini shells are fun because double the capacity

[@raybishop3176]

In the states the English Cocker is really gaining popularity, is that the next UK offering to the hunting public, the hunting Basset? 🤣

[@SchwarzeskabelGWP]

I’d love to see more biodegradable wads I reload my own ammo and just can’t find anything not fiber to load here in USA

[@Pugna-cz6gs]

😂 You sound pathetic

[@ifell3]

The US has mini shells!

[@SWATStrachan]

Anyone else a little bummed that he didn't light off the powders to demonstrate the burn rates? No? Probably just me then 😁.

[@ericsmith5919]

Lighting the powders on the table and filming at the 24-60FPS of a standard camera will result in a comparison between "instant" and "instant," lol.

[@MinimumSpeedOperator]

I think you need to collaborate with Joel Strickland from “surviving duck season”

[@Scooter-dm3qo]

A very nice presentation. However the volume output is distinctly low, at the end of your video I got absolutely BLASTED by the ShotKam ad because I had turned the volume up so much to hear your presentation. Note, I shoot 4 gun Skeet in the US and home load everything I shoot. Because it allows me to tune the velocity for each caliber to a perfect match. I will also note that for 28 and 410 I have progressive presses because the 410 is the least expensive caliber to home load and I 70% of my practice is with 410.

[@zatszats]

I think the video covers pretty much anything for 12 gauge and is very helpful. BUT As a continental european (balkans) I found it difficult to follow the calculations with feet, yards, pounds (both currency and unit of mass). Inches, I can handle. Please, consider referring to the metric system as well. Thank you.

[@kencarrcarr3751]

And the moral of this vid is always look after your balls!43g number 3s through that Valmet 36" barrel were always awesome on geese magnificent!!!

[@johnmarkharris]

“Bigger gun loads and more recoil” 🇺🇸 God bless America 🗽

[@christophercastor6666]

16 please!

[@chrisgrignon3877]

Great video I was watching while loading 12 gauge for winter trap season 😂

[@PhotosByRicardo]

Not me sitting here watching this with a few shells and a leatherman ;)

[@johntandy8918]

So is 10 bore better?

[@ericsmith5919]

In almost every case, no. The list of things 10 gauge can do better than 12 gauge is "hit really big birds really hard at really long distances," and modern 3 1/2" 12 gauge loads make even that advantage marginal to non-existent.

[@getweirdwes]

Theres an editing oversight right around 12 minutes. You included two take of the same part.

[@getweirdwes]

And another one right at 14 minutes

[@user-jm6hh7op3w]

Are shotgun slugs illegal in the UK? 🇬🇧

[@sonicrose8430]

ive heard people claim you can safely shoot 2 3/4 inch out of a 2 5/8 inch chamber. How true is that?

[@jeffreytimmerman6905]

Yes and no. The length of the cartridge is measured from the unrolled cartridge. If you shoot a 2 3/4 length shell out of the 2 1/5 chambered gun then you have a small portion of the end of the shell running past the chamber throat. You can have the chamber throat lengthend to accommodate the 2 3/4 shell.

[@jeffreytimmerman6905]

Sorry 2 5/8

[@jasontipton8430]

winchester AA diamond is the best shotshell in the world

[@sofalugger]

Thought we were supposed to be shooting 14G?! Beta Max vs VHS?/

[@heestenhats]

I love how all the shot rolls through the cracks of the table so we cant see them

[@bradtyson]

Can you get tetanus from lead, as you would rusty steel?

[@knutpohl339]

This video would be amazing² if the British and former British territories could finally say good riddance to their barleycorn-based unit gibberish

[@booglewho86]

A 12-bore does not range up to 0.790", that would be a 10-bore.

[@JJW3]

Mossberg does it with their 835 Ulti-Mag. It has a 3.5" 12-gauge chamber, but 10-gauge bore.

[@booglewho86]

@@JJW3 thanks for the information. How does that work ? Firing 12b wads down a 10b barrel?

[@JJW3]

@@booglewho86 I've never owned one, but the 835 has a reputation for good patterns when Turkey hunting, and it is very popular for waterfowl. Somehow letting the wad/shot expand out to 10-gauge before getting to the choke seems to help the shot pattern stay consistent.

[@vicerichter1163]

3 inches the most superior round

[@jameshogg601]

It's what I tell the other half all the time

[@vicerichter1163]

@@jameshogg601 I do believe this might be the wrong website to say that but okay. LMAO I also knew somebody was gonna make an innuendo joke at some point. DIdnt think it would be that fast.

[@oldskooldeano]

‘Didn’t think it would be that fast’? That’s what she said!

[@vicerichter1163]

@@oldskooldeano ah ah hah. Zing!

[@John-uo1qf]

Size matters? 😂

[@bigdave4150]

You lost me at 60 seconds

[@jeremymackevincaylor5041]

Too bad that a shotgun is in different gauges instead of caliber.

[@Pugna-cz6gs]

You mean 12 bore.