123 Ignition distributor 100 000 kilometre review - Is it worth it?

[@cph_coffeemonster]

I to have been using a 123 Tune in my air-cooled Volkswagen. Daily driven for the past 4 years, with out any problems at all. It’s now in my 3 and latest engine configuration, and still going strong. 💪🏻 Every penny worth.

[@JethroBronner]

Yeah it's a really great product, I can't recommend it enough.

[@tarikwildman]

I have had a Petronix distributor on my 1600cc Giulietta Spider (up-engined) since 2013 and it has done 60,000miles including a full circuit of the USA on side roads and it has never ever failed to start or let me down in any way 2013-2020. A mechanical set-up may be simpler, but every 2,000 miles or so it's a tune up. With this, one less thing to worry about. I am a definite fan.

[@pi.actual]

There is definitely something going on with the quality of aftermarket condensers. I had two of them fail in the same way, the lead just popped right out of the can, causing the points to burn up. I ended up installing a Pertronix pick-up module that has worked fine for a number of years now. I think it cost about $100.

[@ianthomson1000]

Hey Jethro, on your recommendation, I have been running a 123ignition distributor in my 76 Veedub beetle. It has performed perfectly and I am very happy with it and the reliability it has given me. Previously I was using an electronic ignition module and a CB Performance Black Box to set the timing curve, but it has been technique sensitive and not as straight forward as the 123. Thx for the recommendation. Please say “Hi” to your dad for me - He knows me well. What a small world.... Cheers, Ian 👍🏼😊

[@TheDaf95xf]

Evening Jethro 😄 I just love listening to you explain things 👍🏻 You’d make a great teacher 😆 Cheers Stevie 😎🇬🇧

[@mrman17]

I started out as a mechanic in the late 80s and distributors with points and condensers were still commonplace. I can honestly say that if I had a classic car now (especially considering the current quality of points & condensers), I would not hesitate to swap to something like the 123 distributor. Even back in the day, they (points & condensers) were a pain in the arse and caused more reliability issues than anything else - if you had a running problem, it was normally down to points and/or the condenser. And you could be assured that at some point, you would have problems. If you really are that paranoid about a 123 (or similar) distributor failing, keep the original in the boot of the car.

[@JethroBronner]

Yeah that's exactly what I do. I keep an overhauled mechanical distributor in my tool bag just in case. But my 123 has been super reliable.

[@7eis]

I think it's a pretty cool product. A complete spare ignition system will fit in a kids shoebox. Whenever I do ignition system replacements I throw the known good parts in a cloth pouch next to the spare tire. Keep the tools needed there as well. I feel part of the charm with older vehicles is most runability issues can be fixed with less than $50 in parts and tools you can keep in the car.

[@kevinbannister2356]

I've also used the same after market distributer 'Lumanition' on all my Alfa's including Suds going back to my 1966 Gulia TI, yer & it eventually started to misfire when hot. But it was always reliable having been in about 5 different Alfa's doing many thousands of miles tripping around NZ, Am now using a disi out of an Alfa 75 1800 donna car engine for the Spider which works great in the 2ltr engine. Loving your videos, keep it up.

[@DAT240Z72]

The 123ignition made a world of difference on my 240z. Throttle response was greatly improved. The Butt dyno gives it a double thumbs up!

[@jamesmustin7289]

I found out that you were out of South Africa. I did not notice any accent you sounded very American. I am. Surprised that you are running 50 year old cars. I owned BMW 1602 during the time period. I would have loved a 5 speed. Today I drive a 1997 Honda Del Sol Si “CRX”. I am the original Owner. It has a 5 speed Manuel 127 horsepower. Front and rear sway bars and double wishbone front and rear. It now has 200,000 miles all mine. This is a small two seat car, It’s handling is a joy.. in many ways It reminds me of the 1960’s cars. This is a keeper.

[@Soulburn89]

I have a 2.0 Alfa 75 with twin double barrel carbs. The ignition system is electronic which uses a bosch distributor which has pick-up coil inside instead of a hall sensor. At some point it started developing the same misfiring followed by a dead engine whenever it got hot, good part was that I knew I was about to get stranded because the tachometer would start jumping like mad just before it was starting to missfire badly and die. I think I replaced 4 ign coils, and at first it seemed like the problem was fixed but it would appear shortly after. Then I just started throwing parts at it, I even replaced the little pick-up coil inside the distributor (the reluctor?) and still no fix. I managed to somewhat fix it by replacing the old style oil drenched coil with a modern solid coil style, with of course the same primary resistance spec. Issue is that I still have a very slight missfire at around a fixed engine rpm, it's barely noticeable but I can still see the tachometer jumping a little bit. There are no mechanics in my country that know how to tackle old tech like this, and it just drives me insane because for 2 years now I've been trying to figure this out.

[@niklaswo]

Even though I have one installed already (I didn’t install it) I’d love to follow along on your process of installing a new one. Would be helpful in checking if mine is correctly installed and also to do troubleshooting. Thanks for great content. And really nice of 123 to get in touch!

[@JethroBronner]

Niklas Wolkert When I get this repaired I’ll do another follow up video about it. I’ll cover installation in that video.

[@alienpoker]

@Jethro Bronner Yes, please. Very informative. I’ve been looking for a way to get Tachometer, Voltage, MPH and tuning maps on a 240z. I run the oldskool twin SU setup on a built 2.6 engine. I’ve just ordered one direct from 123ignitionusa.com , so an install vidjayo would be awesome 😎

[@grantlingley5099]

Thanks for posting these video Jethro! I am currently rebuilding a Porsche 914 with a lot of the usual upgrades but an Alfa is definitely in my future and your updates are really interesting!

[@JethroBronner]

Thanks Grant. I think there's a lot of crossover between Alfa and Porsche, both great drivers' cars.

[@stevewuertz3598]

Another great clip and topic. Thanks!! I'm hoping someone discovers a rebuild service and posts it here. I did a quick search and while I did not find anything concrete, I'm pretty sure rebuilds are possible. There are firms that repair computer logic boards and home appliance boards for the oven, dishwasher so someone should be able to figure it out or perhaps 123 could offer a rebuild service. You bench test components for operation within spec, replace and cold solder reflow the board and test again-should be nearly as good as new. I've had kit stereo amps or pre amps fail and the replacement parts are generally a better spec than the initial cause or point of failure; point of failure generally becoming known as a "known issue". Fingers crossed.

[@JethroBronner]

It's all a little (or quite far actually) beyond my understanding of such things. I'm going to send it back for a repair at 123.

[@alienpoker]

@Jethro Bronner Subscribed for this comment alone. I sooooo want one for my 240z.

[@HBPowerwall]

Just got one for my Car - thanks for your insight.

[@GreasyFingers]

My full appreciation for everyone who goes with a 123, but I have to say: I kind a like wrestling with pre silicone ignitions. Kind a.

[@loti54]

I put a Pertronix igniter in my Renault-Gordini 16TS in my Lotus, that was an improvement, now I am looking at this as a further improvement, thanks for the video, I am getting one very soon :-)

[@dublegi-hr8kq]

A much cheaper alternative that offers the same reliability and the advantage of keeping the standard dizzy is a Hall effect sensor that replaces the points only. These are offered by many companies. I have used those made by Pertronix but like I said there are many others who make them. Set and forget. Can also be moved from one car to the next if need be as long as the dizzy is fairly similar (close enough is good enough). Only parameter that counts is the clearance to the magnet sector. This is easily set with feelers, card, etc. Kit comes with a small plastic card for this purpose. I have used them for over 25 years on my various cars, never had any issues. And even if you do have issues, you can just carry a set of points and swap them in on the side of the road without touching anything else and off you go. No need for special coil, doesn't wear, doesn't go out of adjustment (no physical contact between sensor and magnet sector), etc. Another advantage is cost, which is only 25US$, so you can get two if you fear problems and still come ahead. In 25 years however I have never had one fail in any way. Also, it doesn't matter if your dizzy shaft is worn or damaged at the section that controls the points. As long as there is still a somewhat square-ish section on it, you can fit the magnet sector (it slides over that section). Very good for an older worn out dizzy you would otherwise throw out.

[@JethroBronner]

01199 dublegi That seems like a good option, but it may be a little bit beyond my experience. Also, how do you setup the advance curve with that setup? The thing I like about the 123 is that you can pick any advance curve you want.

[@krusher74]

@@JethroBronner you dont. yoo are stuck with the advance curve of the distributor you fit it too, (which may be worn out and wander around)

[@jamcdona]

The TR6 community has/had the issue of crappy points and condensers also. Lots of fail on install situations, and like most car clubs had guys that really dove into the issues using their skillsets. Condensers had bad quality control (China) and points were very inferior to originals. Advanced Distributors sells a great product that seems to be holding up in my TR6, but at some point I'll go Pertronix. Keeping an extra set of points and condenser in the trunk ;)

[@rotarybreather]

I enjoyed this video and it piqued my interest in this distributor since I just ordered one for my '68 Porsche 912. It will be installed on 3/25/22. I got a TUNE+ with Bluetooth and a Bosch red coil. I had an MSD High Vibration coil which I was told is too hot (the Ohm rating is .7). The Bosch red coil has an Ohm rating of 1.8. Looking forward to driving the car during the forthcoming driving season. I've only heard good things about this product. Thanks for posting this video.

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Very topical at the moment for me ;) I need to work out which way to go with mine very soon.

[@JethroBronner]

The 123 is such a great upgrade for the 105, and I think they do ones for Datsuns too.

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

They do. I may have to look into it ;)

[@JP-ul7vr]

Hey Jeff! I put the Bluetooth 123 distributor in my 1750 GTV last year - the car immediately started, idled and ran smoother. Looking forward to your 105 resto.

[@richardtaylor2449]

great ignition distributor thanks for the vlog Jethro

[@jamesleggett2418]

this is a great video, thanks. i'll definitely go this way. Have you seen the jenvey heritage throttle bodies? I'm tempted to go that way too so it looks period but has all the ease of a modern car.

[@JethroBronner]

I personally love Weber DCOEs, when you understand them they are just amazing and very easy to keep tuned up. The 123 is a great mod because it takes the guesswork out of your advance curves, and the quality of modern points and condensers is not so great.

[@yves2348]

If your HTlead had been well fixed, the thing would still be okay. So it is not a bad idea to make sure the htl has good connection and STAYS on the coil. I´ve never had an htl jumped off, but in your case it fried the 123, which is a shame. I think I will glue the cap on the coil from now on. Thanks for your vid !

[@kevgermany]

Lumenition worked really well for me. And if it fails, just pop the points back in. Not sure if it's still.available. However as it just upgrades the existing distributor it's still subject to problems from wear and bad cap/leads/rotor arm.

[@torbenalstrup3902]

Lumenition is still available

[@donaldasayers]

One of those stranded me in the middle of the M1. They're junk.

[@robertboonzaier3204]

Very informative video.Keep up the good work!

[@JethroBronner]

Will do!

[@larrybrinley8222]

I'd like to hear more about the coil recommendation

[@tangmonster]

A look at the PCB will help. Most probably output igbt or fet or whatever silicone they used. Should be easy to replace with some soldering... Good luck. Going to try ignitor on my Fulvia next week. Curious since I have done many many kms and 12 years in it on points only :)

[@JethroBronner]

Heinrich Spreeth I have no idea what I’m looking at when it comes to electronics, so I’m going to leave it to the pros for this one. Hopefully it can be repaired and go back into use.

[@tangmonster]

For the cost of the 123 and seeing as the IGBT(guessing) part would probably be a +-R150 it might help trying to find a local electronics engineer that can help. I encircled part here: i.ibb.co/t4WFDnj/123.jpg from random internet image search

[@raisingjunior6389]

Great info, I'll look into it when its engine rebuild time! Hopefully you can get yours repaired by replacing some components rather than getting a whole new distributor

[@bertone83]

Thank you for this excellent long-term report! Have you actually ever checked if the pre programmed advance curves are correct and match the original ones? I read in a German Alfa forum all curves in the pre programmed distributor are way off the original specs. Therefore most of the people I know have bought the programmable version... However, like 10 years ago I had one of the pre progammed ones in a Giulia who was my daily driver back then. The engine ran smoothly and I had like 97 HP with the standard 1.6l engine on the dyno. I also never had reliability problems but only used it for 15k km or so until I sold the car...

[@JethroBronner]

LordAcidious I haven’t ever checked them but I’ve had really good performance from the pre-programmer curves.

[@bertone83]

Cheers Jethro, I will probably take the 123 for my Spider after I have completed my restoration. The old distributor needs to be replaced in any case...

[@davidgerrard8661]

There is a low impedence Flamethrower coil that 123 recommend!

[@stentuning]

most of the people that complain that the 123 ignition isnt reliable have other electric issues in their car, causing the 123 going bad. or the wrong coil

[@neiljeffs2844]

Hi, Jethro, there was a limitation electric kit for mechanical distributor needs a bigger coll was a cheep part

[@RichPober]

It sounds like 123 Ignition distributors do not have adequate over-voltage protection. I use Lumenition ignition systems, both standard and high-performance version, and they have never failed on me over the 30+ years I have owned them.

[@nkelly.9]

The original distributors are bullet proof too, and fixable.. The entire motor industry ran Kettering ignition systems for 80 years. The cars run just fine with them, they were sold with them and guaranteed. Don't buy/fit cheap points/condensers. Bosch is good stuff.

[@felixarbable]

considering i have to a do a engine rebuild soon id love to see that video of your rebuild happeneing haha

[@JethroBronner]

I've got 3 engine rebuilds coming up on the channel, so stick around!

[@wardaskevin7685]

Hi! Just a question, which mark do you use to set the light on the 123 ignition, the « p » or « f » mark on the crank pulley?

[@JethroBronner]

“F” is the static timing mark for setting timing at idle. “M” is the maximum advance mark. “P” is TDC for setting cam timing.

[@wardaskevin7685]

So when you install the 123 ignition, you set your engine on TDC compression cylinder 1, set the light on the distributor that’s all? I was a bit confused with the « F » mark…

[@davidobrien8978]

Hi good evening I’ll tell you something we have old jag 60s I’d never go back 🤝 absolutely marvellous unit we have workshop at house myself dad as hobby passion pastime do our own work.

[@arisarvanitakis5672]

Hi! I am ready to follow installing a 123 to my AR0512 engine fitted to my GT Junior. 1) What is, to your opinion, the best advance curve for this engine ? (1962 cc with 131 BHP) and 2) I got already a Flamethrower coil at 1.5 Ohm. It would be ok with 123? Thank you so much for your videos!

[@peterrowland1393]

Hi Jethro, did 123 ever reply regarding possibility of repairing?

[@JethroBronner]

Hi Peter. Yes they did offer to repair it. However I found that the issue was very easy to repair myself, and not caused by the loose lead. I'm going to be re-using this unit in my upcoming 2000cc engine build, and I'll do an update on my thoughts on 123 then. But the gist of it is that I think it's a great product that's very reliable.

[@marcofilippini5060]

@@JethroBronner Hi, probably I have the same issue..how did you fix it? Sending the distributor back to the seller doesn’t seem like an option..thank you

[@c.q3385]

I have a 2000GTV 74 model and my blinkers are shot . I replaced the fuse and it’s still dead . Would be a great vid to run through the blinker system and how to fix it

[@JethroBronner]

C .Q Can do👍 But it’s most likely the actual flasher unit under the dash, they often fail. Just replace it with a modern one, should solve your problem. And check your continuity on the wiring, could be something loose too.

[@c.q3385]

I had smoke pouring out from the binnacle today when I had the high beams on for 10minutes so the circuit board is definitely fried . But yes I’ll take your suggestion and give it a crack. Great vids you’re a legend mate

[@JethroBronner]

C .Q You should definitely relay the headlights on your 105. I had a fire in the steering column shroud on my 64 GT from that same thing, it’s a known weak spot.

[@c.q3385]

Jethro Bronner I think I was inches from the same fire . Luckily I pulled over , switched the lights off and disconnected battery as soon as there was smoke . Pulled the binnacle off but luckily I got it before it turned to flames . I’ll definitely look at doing that now . Thanks for the tip

[@Oby_have]

Did 123 get back to you about repairing the distributor?

[@malcolmscott4150]

Great info - how did you manage to gain so much technical knowledge? I get vertigo replacing anything more complex than a spark plug :)

[@krusher74]

if you get vertigo from a spark plug im surprised you know what a distributor is!

[@milescarter7803]

Any update? It should be possible to do a repair, shame to waste the thing for a failure of a part worth less than $5 in all likelihood.

[@cptmr6058]

Quick question; why is a pertronix flame thrower not good for these, it got 3 ohms resistance?

[@roeljonker]

cptm r I’m wondering the same. That was the coil that was advised by the shop I bought it from......

[@cptmr6058]

@@roeljonker okay, im currently driving with the pertronix flame thrower together with 123ignition. no problems at all, spark plugs and everything looks good, have been driving with it for about 2.000km

[@krusher74]

I just bought at bosch red coil that they recomend from ebay, high spark output 1.8 ohm and 35quid so cheaper than a flamethrower (blue coil would have done the job and even cheaper)

[@ithomson100]

If a coil goes bad, it tends to be a flame thrower unfortunately. We hear the same in our VW group and I personally have had two fail on me. With the 123 I am running the original blue bosh coil and have never had an issue since purchasing both.

[@jamesleggett2418]

Can you do/have you done a how to fit 123 ignition video? mines a 116 2.0 but i assume its the same process?

[@JethroBronner]

Ok sure, I'll do an update on my thoughts about the 123 Ignition system and how to install one. I've repaired this unit, so I can put it back in the car.

[@classlessbozo317]

Please can you look at why backfiring on deceleration happens and how to fix it.

[@caseytailfly]

Probably caused by an over-rich mixture with no throttle. On old Alfas with Spica injection there is a solenoid that cuts off fuel delivery in this condition. It can be adjusted or may need replacement or troubleshooting. On carbureted cars you will need to adjust or tune the specific circuit to control mixture in this condition. There might also be an air blockage causing this.

[@willgrime]

Or a leaky exhaust pipe. You want pops and bangs, drill a little hole in the pipe near to the exhaust manifold...

[@cspurosangue]

Per Alfa romeo Alfa 90 v6 2000 è possibile?

[@SimonGough64]

Did you get it fixed?

[@krusher74]

Nobody (even 123) seems to advertize were well these have auto adaptive dwell and spark balancing (like F1) they need a much better website.

[@RogerMilesPereira]

Can you bump up your vocal levels. Your videos are very soft and I have to run full volume.

[@stevewalden3814]

I agree. I usually listen to KZbin from across the room. For Jethro's last two videos, I can barely hear even when I get right up to the speaker.

[@donaldasayers]

Make sure you get a genuine one, lot of Chinese fakes out there on Ebay.

[@vintagecarnews5899]

i like it

[@lebojay]

My 2L Spider starts easier, runs better and pulls harder with its 1-2-3 😎🏁

[@JethroBronner]

Yeah they're a great plug and play upgrade.