(1230) Challenge: Chris Overlifting #2

[@RPRosen-ki2fk]

Chris, you built a cleanly crafted, formidable CL there. It's a shame about the key, it only added insult to injury ... two opens in short time. Well you were up against a picking god, who knows how to sneak in ... through the back door. Great try!

[@chrisdryan]

R.P. Rosen it was only my second lock, the key needs the two washers on it as it was one that was hanging about the workshop. I have some blanks on order for my next lock. Cheers

[@RPRosen-ki2fk]

Chris, I kinda figured they were spacers or you wouldn't have included them. It still was an awesome build, if that's only your 2nd attempt, I think you'll earn yourself ... a PacLock in a whoop'd by video soon, if you keep at it. Man, that keyway was BRUTAL!

[@cardiffpicker1]

Chris Ryan you should try making one with an asec screw in cylinder they are definitely one of the common keyways I hate the most.

[@chrisdryan]

cardiffpicker1 I’m just playing with a Yale Superior Series dimple with sliders in euro profile that just arrived. Then I have two Yale Maximum Security one rim lock and one euro profile. These I pick out for the biting from a Homebase that was closing down. My delivery of key blanks turned up to so should not have key problems now. But will be on the lookout for an asec

[@cardiffpicker1]

Chris Ryan I must admit I was really disappointed with the superior as they can be opened with relative ease. The asec mortice cylinders are not particularly good locks but have a very tight and small keyway so make good challenge locks. What part of UK are you in.

[@jdshenanigans9265]

I think the two o rings are used to space the key out .

[@JollyPeanut]

I thought so too.

[@ceasarspartacus]

John Dickenson hadn't thought of that. Makes sense, though

[@alonsoquesada1136]

Yup, I thought so too

[@pr0xZen]

This.

[@bosnianbill]

Yeah, I totally missed that too during the video. Thanks!

[@duanefeik9697]

Maybe the rubber washer was supposed to be used on the key when trying to open with the key. Just a thought

[@Lord_Errol]

Hi. Curious to know why the key would not work...? Can you please repin the core and insert the key so we can possibly see what the issue was.

[@chrisdryan]

The key is not from that lock the washers should make it fit if they are put on the key ( like you would to bump it) it was just one hanging around the workshop.

[@iWhacko]

Chris Ryan, that's what I was thinking aswell, put the washers on the key so it doesn't go in all the way. He might have made a slight offset error when cutting the key

[@Eyadish90]

I think the guy you replied to was the one who made the lock =P

[@iWhacko]

haha just noticed that xD

[@jamesstrain7062]

I was thinking the same thing. I think Bill felt rushed and was trying to keep it brief.

[@DonzLockz]

A strange method of overlifting & rakeing. Don't think I've seen that method before. Nice job & nice lock.😎✌

[@FusionDeveloper]

In my personal opinion, there are 2 types of "challenge locks". Type 1 = Can use any method that would work if the lock was mounted to a door (such as, no shimming from the back where you shouldn't have access to.) Type 2 = Must pick using a specific method, to prove how difficult that method is (such as only clockwise and all rules MUST be stated).

[@Chris-Law]

Beautiful job on the serrated driver and spools

[@Steel-Pinnings]

Darn right an open is an open. And the tricks go both ways. Should have tried the rubber washers before picking again.

[@InsaneFirebat]

That #4 driver is the nastiest looking serrated pin I've ever seen. What the heck did he use to cut that?

[@Polite_Cat]

apparently those spacers were needed with the key but i wanted to see it inserted into the core to see what it looked like!

[@TonyUrryMakes]

So do you think those two rubber washers could have been to put on the key to position it out a bit from the lock? That may be how the key is supposed to function

[@MorellioBenoir]

Would have been cool to put the key in the core after it was out to see if you could spot the issue.

[@mikeburdi3464]

That wasn't an ugly open, that was actually a beautiful technique in my opinion. It's too bad Bill that you didn't pay attention to the spacers provided with the key, as they may have helped the key fit properly. Nevertheless, a great open and congrats Chris on a great lock!

[@clarionkev]

I was hoping you would've put the key in after you pulled the core to see where the pins didn't match up

[@michaelking3327]

need to do a redo on this one, the rubber washer went on the key, kind of like a bump key

[@jamesstrain7062]

OMG I have the same exact lock and strangely enough I finally got it open yesterday. When I gutted it I found 4 mushroom pins that are shaped like bombs (some call them torpedos) and 1 standard driver pin. Every key pin had a single serration on the top( I’ve heard these grooves were for graphite). I found this lock on a house I was gutting and that was 3 years ago. I had a lot of problems with this lock, I was so desperate I cheated and tensioned from the back and had to use a postal hook to get thru the warding. I wish I’d seen this first. Keep up the good work Bill.

[@Mikeyalike]

Washers are for bumping the lock or spacers

[@jraymond3218]

Good job. Never saw that method before.

[@davidburlingame2421]

Like Duane said below, the rubber piece is probably used to put over the blade. If someone were to find a copy of that key by-hook or by-crook, the lock will not open with the key fully inserted.

[@larryg7336]

Nice pins,Great pick Mr Bill

[@RookieLock]

Beautiful close ups Bill!

[@jeremiahkennedy1683]

This is the move I usually start out with now on locks I know have security pins. Even if it doesn't work it can lead to a good false set that can be sppd. Great pickin' bill!!!

[@matthewaustin4946]

How do they cut keyways?

[@RookieLock]

I believe they are broached

[@_aullik]

the only video i could find on youtube was a chineese one. but at one point you see what is basically a chainsaw cutting out the keyway. Think of a chainsaw where the teeth are in the shape of the keyway. But they have different heights, small teeth first, large teeth later, so that every teeth is only a small amount of material.

[@RookieLock]

I found this www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1317093-How-is-the-keyway-of-a-Yale-lock-created

[@matthewaustin4946]

Thanks guys...

[@RookieLock]

No problem bud, I always wondered about that as well.

[@WineScrounger]

It’s an open ... it’ll do. A full scale challenge lock needs to protect against all possible attacks.

[@pr0xZen]

WineScrounger Including drilling and core pulling?

[@WineScrounger]

pr0xZen only if you’re allowing destructive attacks, in which case you’re into heavy engineering and reactive responses .. at least raking and oversetting doesn’t completely trash the lock 😁

[@WilliamMancel]

Great technique. I didn't know it would work on pin tumblers. Now I know. Excellent technique to try if you can't get to that last pin without over setting pin one. 👏👍🔓

[@alonsoquesada1136]

The rubber washer is to prevent the key of getting too deep into the keyway like a bump key

[@hoggif]

That's one reason to use security pins on the bottom. Something should catch and screw us up in overlifting attempt too!

[@eicydee3212]

Just had some crazy thought: If one had a special kind of tweezer and could pull on the pins, tensioning the core, overlifting all pins, and with the tweezers, always pulling out the pin which is hardest to pull (because of binding order) as far as it will go may open any pin tumbler lock. I also don't see how any security pins can defend against this, just on some security pins one may have to gently rake the keypins after one saw some core rotation. May all be pretty low skill. Or am I overlooking something?

[@ehsnils]

But you didn't investigate why the key didn't work.

[@ianbritstone3717]

The shim that came out of the lock was to stop the pins from falling out when the inner barrel is fully inverted.

[@cody-6735]

Bill, could the rubber washers be to "Bump Key" this lock?

[@Ulixes_the_Wanderer]

I am thinking more of the rubber washers being needed for the key to actually work.

[@cody-6735]

I could see that, kinda what I was thinking on the bump angle. I hope Bill sees the need for a follow up video!

A technique I'll definitely try.

And it worked.

[@AedLamhchleasai]

And that is why I watch those cool tis bits like this one

[@molie77]

Nice method for us all bill... Thanks

[@danielkent6895]

Awesome technique, Bill

[@serdargentsch735]

More whipped videos pls.

[@andersjjensen]

If you want to see a whipped video you better get cracking on making a lock he can't pick :P

[@noahway13]

I have a cut away lock from Sparrow. It has a 2 pin that is cut super low. Any touch sends it up to overlift. It is last pin to come down. I can't get it to open. Regular pins. But number two seems sticky once it's up. Too easy to go up, too hard to come down.

[@jcapicy]

I get the impression the rubber washer needed to be on the key before it went in the lock.

[@douggwyn9656]

(1) Out of curiosity you could put the key and lower pins into the plug to see why the key didn't work. (2) When you describe springs as "copper", probably they're not copper (which is too soft); perhaps they're phosphor bronze? Best wishes!

[@Jonathan-SW89]

Sweet! You such a bad ass picker my friend! Have learned so much from all hours looking at your vids 👌🏼🕉🗝 Thank you for doing this for us 😏✌🏼️

[@sarinhighwind]

no no no, i thought the rule was the key had to work for it to be valid challenge lock.

[@JimFortune]

Sarin Highwind I think if you can't pick it, and the key doesn't work, it's not a fail for the picker. Sometimes he gets locks that have no keys, and they're still valid.

[@debug9424]

The key works.... if you take 3 seconds to think and realize that the two washers are required for the key to work.

[@MerkDolf]

The Key didn't work because you forgot to use the two black rubber washers on the key almost as if it were a bump key.

[@JB-zj9em]

bosnianbill I have enjoyed your Video's as a newbie i find them a lot of help..one of your video's that you said you like Abus locks, i have not see a video on this particular lock on KZbin anywhere. I found it on amazon it is the Abus 83AL/40-300 S2 Rekeyable Schlage 1.5-Inch Shackle Aluminum Body Padlock, Blue Zero-Bitted. It comes with a bag with , spring, a spool and a square 6mm x 4mm 0.45mm thick something {chip} one each. The key is just one blank. There's pin in it but if the key didn't work i have to take the lock on one side and tap it on the table to get it to work with the blank key. There is a large cut out on i guess the side of the Bible. id say its for someone with more experience. i was hoping you would do a video on these locks. i have seen one of the first version but not this changed Version 2. Well enjoyed your videos, Have a good day.

[@thechilleggnog5531]

Does bill still do giveaways?

[@AlbertLebel]

Great work. I agree, an open is an open. But I think the key should work. Maybe the sharp pins grab a bit too much. Still, coffee and a good vid. Thank you

[@phri6173]

I have a lockwood I might try that technique on as it's a right pain to get an open on it I can open the higher security lockwood locks but this one the 120 has very tight keyway .. cheers for the new tactic though bill

[@bertus76q]

I love your KZbin videos ❤️❤️❤️💛💛💛💚💚💚💙💙💙💜💜💜💖💖💖💗

[@MdVaDc]

I still have yet to see this guy pick a compx keset. I suggested it quite a few times over the years. I guess they can't be picked or he just doesn't know what they are.

[@bosnianbill]

Got one? Send it to me. I don't know if I'll be able to pick it or not but will give it my best shot.

[@MdVaDc]

bosnianbill I had one a year ago and I couldn't figure it out and I ended up destroying it trying to figure it out. I thought it was a tubular 7 pin but I was way off and so I never figured it out. If I come across another I'll be sure to send it to you.

[@LockpickingNord]

Nummer Fünf👍

[@aamirahmed2727]

Long time watcher, I love your videos. So I have always been interested in picking but just recently I purchased my first set of lock picking tools. I ordered the sparrows EOD kit. I was just curious on your thoughts of it, is it a good set to start out with. And do you think it will last for a good while

[@ceasarspartacus]

Aamir Ahmed i believe any sparrows kit is good. I'm the guy that picks with a hairpin or that really cheap "credit card" lock pick kit, so my input might not be valid here. Bill might have a review of it on here. Stay safe...

[@ceasarspartacus]

Unless the universe is against you, you'll get your money's worth out of them

[@Piasecznik72]

You could repin the core and see where problem was.

[@funkeyfastdrawmonkey1483]

Nice technique for nasty butting 😀😉🔓🔓🔓 Twice in less than 6mins = WINNING

[@JuanRamos-jx7rc]

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[@patdossenko1820]

Super awesomeness.

[@Kit_Bear]

The flat piece of brass is so the pins of the cam don't fall out when you rotate it 180 degrees. Mystery solved and covered.

[@milanmarkovic4348]

it was a bigger job to unreape the key then to open the lock

[@experimentalarmy4495]

helpful video

[@Kraken1000]

Since 80% of cylinder locks in the UK are Yale we're all in trouble now. :-(

[@soranuareane]

I have zero experience lock picking or lock smithing. I might buy a basic kwikset and some blank keys and make you something fun.

[@Zodliness]

When you removed the core you didn't insert the key, to see why it wouldn't rotate. The brass wafer prevents the pins from dropping out as you rotate the core past 180º Typical in older Yale cylinder locks where the core was drilled from the bottom, not the top of the bible.

[@summercurve497]

Nice picking I've never seen anyone using that technique I'll have to try out that technique..... just wondering is there anyone here from the UK that has locks that wants to sell them I'm from the UK

[@CawaB1]

😎👍

[@thorlancaster5641]

This technique might be useful in opening my h@ndcuff3d or other false trap locks. The wafers would stand a good chance of staying above the shear line, and the plug would still turn. This lock would have been a lot harder to overlift with some spool and serrated key pins.

[@pr0xZen]

Thor Lancaster Having seen billyboy do this twice (thrice?) now, I suspect a lot of challenge lock makers that send him their stuff, will start countering it. Or at least I hope they do. This made for a bit of a lackluster video by his typical standard, although the gutting kinda was mostly responsible I guess. If he didn't really have time or want to do this when he did, I'm certain we wouldn't be outraged if he took a day off :)

[@ianbritstone3717]

You can strip these cylinders down using an uncut key and a shim.

[@eak125]

Bill, you need someone to test the keys for you. They could un-mummy, test, and re-mummy for you so you could keep your plausible deniability. That way you won't waste your time on challenge locks that are not valid.

[@THR33STEP]

That’s a good idea!

[@3lapsed]

It was pretty obvious the washers were there as key spacers. Had he put them on it would've opened

[@eak125]

Yes, but I was talking in general. Also the key tester could open the mummified keys non-destructively so that bill won't go scratching/scoring the key with his razer blade as he is wont to do.

[@pr0xZen]

But sometimes the key mummyfication is part of the entertainment value given to the lock by its creator. I guess it depends on how often he has issues with this. I haven't been around the longest, but this is the first I've seen where he couldn't get it working (on camera).