12V Battery Showdown! $1,499 LiTime VS $1,999 Epoch

[@WillProwse]

Epoch 12V 460Ah (Affiliate link. Coupon code "Epoch10" gets 10% off! $200 savings): www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d LiTime 12V 460Ah: www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-460ah-lifepo4-lithium-battery-250a-bms-5888wh-energy?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns Victron 12V Inverters: www.currentconnected.com/product-category/inv/12-volt-inverters/?ref=wp Victron Solar Charge Controllers: www.currentconnected.com/product-category/solar/charge-controllers/?ref=wp Mobile 48V System for Beginners: www.mobile-solarpower.com/mobile-48v-system.html *Does off-grid solar confuse you?* Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com *Join our DIY solar community!* #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com Check out my best-selling, beginner-friendly 12V off-grid solar book (affiliate link): amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 0:00 Intro 0:44 Spec Sheet Comparison 1:50 Exterior Comparison 4:21 Teardown! 7:10 Conclusion *30% more and 25% cheaper. Oops *Does off-grid solar confuse you?* Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com *Join our DIY solar community* #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com *Check out my Book* Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar! amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Energy! They will price out a system and get your house offgrid: ts.la/william57509 *My DIY Solar Equipment Recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):* 12V/48V Lithium Solar Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Complete Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html Plug-N-Play System Recommendations: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete "Add to Cart" 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html *My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:* *Signature Solar* Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Current Connected* SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp *Litime* My favorite 12V budget battery!: www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns *Epoch Batteries* My favorite high-quality 12V battery: www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d *Renogy* A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more! renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx *Rich Solar* Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Battery Hookup* Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 5% off code: diysolar *Contact Information:* I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: [e-mail] Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar *FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:* Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com

[@gregboyd4321]

Which 48 volt with max AMP us available for an RV Will. A well mount from Canada???

[@bmiller1958]

Keep up the great work!!

[@mannyfragoza9652]

I paid about 450.00 for 1800 amps worth of LIFEpo4 batteries. (Japanese cells) i have 12 cells. rated 600 Amps (peak) each. I could buy one more pac for a 48 volt system. Im not sure the best way to go yet since this will be a stand alone system w/o any solar connected .I may keep what i have to make a 36 volt system or buy one more pack for a 48 volt or even 2 /24 volt systems.

[@GoodmanMIke59]

Thumbs up, always learn a lot from you. I prefer dealing with my flooded lead acids for now. ... BUT BUT BUT... 0:44 7:20 (2000-1500)/1500 = THIRTY THREE PERCENT MORE. Engineer turned Middle School teacher. Maybe you should go back to 8th grade. I find you to be very interesting to listen to and your personal story is compelling ... and I know I sound like an angry geezer boomer ... but when you get basic math wrong, I start having a problem. ... Math and grammar matter. NOT (2000-1500)/2000/

[@LifeMyWay007]

Can you do the same update video for 48v mobile (RV) system? The only thing on the website is the portable hand truck version you did seems like a long time ago. Would you currently recommend those portable units for mobile also? It seems you have reviewed many products since then that may be better or easier or less expensive in today's market?

[@restfulplace3273]

This is solid content. No long intro. Just compact well scripted content

[@goodcitizen1611]

"Quality will be remembered long after price is forgotten." .... Me.

[@mikenavy360]

There is always something better. Can't beat the cycles.

[@farhanredza]

Beautiful ❤

[@daviddorsey8754]

Hear,Hear

[@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101]

I already got 2 of the Epoch units going in my boat with full victron system. I bench tested them with the Victron and they work great.

[@vinny143]

When you reviewed the Li Time 100ah 12.8v ... you said, "It is a really good cheap battery, and it works." I bought 10 of them. Im off grid and use about 200 watts per hour 24 hours a day. 3000 watts of solar

[@mikenavy360]

Same here but 16.

[@ElMistroFeroz]

I have a similar system (8 100A 12v batteries & 2200 solar). 200 Watts per day sounds just about right, but I'm sure you can use more.

[@vinny143]

@migmigjohnson9351 if i do laundry... it uses about 1500wh per load. I modified my dryer to run a 110v motor and a 110v heater element. Coffee maker uses about 500watts , then shuts off. For the most part , 2 deep freezers , fridge , security system , and a few lights will run 200 watts per hour

[@Steven-e7c]

​@@vinny143what kind of coffee maker is that? Wow only 500 watts?

[@vinny143]

@@Steven-e7c cheap "Dollar General" coffee maker... $25

[@khaledaziz8867]

LiTime excellent choice for stationery usage, Epich quality of construction is good for Overlanding usage👍

[@danemmerich6775]

Glad to hear you said Overlanding experience is good for Epoch. That is what I need is a battery for summer and winter Overlanding.

[@teeanahera8949]

You do know that “stationery” is what you buy when you shop for pens and paper? Something that does not move is called ‘stationary’. Next you want *epic quality in your Epoch brand battery.

[@billybobbellybuttboo]

I don't understand Spanish

[@erickessler6094]

Brother, Thank you for another great teardown! While I love my 12v 230Ah LiTime in my camper, with low temp protect. IF I were buying a 400+Ah today, I'd definitely go with all the extra features of the Epoch in my RV! Cheers, Eric

[@CryptoNut82]

LiTime because it is built good enough for what application it will be likely used for and to save 25% is a big savings

[@lcect]

I bought an Ampere Time 200Ah for an emergency backup home unit built on a hand truck using your guides. It has kept my refrigerator and other essentials running through multiple power outages over the last couple of years. For my purposes it has been the perfect solution and I don't require anything more. Thanks, Will!

[@don_sharon]

I bought 4 x 230Ah Li Time (with low temp cut off) based on your recommendation and videos. Unfortunately, 2 of the batteries showed up with only 3.2v, and after trouble shooting with customer service (which took some time since they are only in China), I had to send them back. They quickly replaced the two faulty batteries, but 50% failure is unacceptable. In any event, I own these 4 batteries and they are doing very well in my RV. They are charged easily by the existing MS2812 inverter charger whether connected to shore power or by 10Kw generator. I do not have solar and don't plan on installing since I already have the genset which works during times of rain, cloudy days, night, and so on. Additionally, I installed a Victron shunt to monitor SOC. I was able to buy each battery for $618 delivered, using discount codes provided in their emails. Thanks for your videos and help on these projects.

[@allancorupe5916]

Thankyou for the comparison video. My use case is for a motorhome, however the cost difference is an issue for me as I am buying more of the Litime batteries I installed the LiTime 8 months ago and it's worked amazing. Life changing actually. I diy'ed a low temp compartment heater using a ws1209 temp sensor and 3 1157 light bulbs (75w) that keeps the compartment warm on cold desert nights. I use a BT thermometer to monitor compartment temps Have a Renogy Soc meter that is honestly the worst part of my setup. Thanks.

[@danemmerich6775]

Thank you for the info on your low temp heater. What temp do you have it set to come on at? Does it work well enough or would you do anything different? Like maybe buying batteries with low temp sensor and heated.

[@allancorupe5916]

@@danemmerich6775 your welcome. In my motorhome I installed the LiTime battery in the existing battery compartment. That compartment is 3'x3'x2' and it was vented to handle the off gassing for the lead acid house batteries. With the LiPo4 battery i sealed the vent holes (to keep the heat in) I looked at buying the battery heater blankets Will talks about, but decided to go with what I had on hand using the generic ws1209 and some 1157 bulbs give me 75watts of heating. Total cost for compartment heater is $5 for the Ws1209 and I had the (3 ) 1157 bulbs and I am a DIY junkie. The weak link in my case is the Renogy SOC meter, its terrible, but it works. If I had the money i would have used the Epochs or better yet converted to a 48 volt build and would suggest that if are not $ strapped for the Epochs. But because I have an existing Magnum power inverter (12v 2000W) and a $ constraint I needed to stay in the 12 volt world for now. With only one LiTime 460 AH battery and 1.5 Kw watt of solar I can dry camp using very little generator usage (only the cloudy days)

[@allancorupe5916]

@@danemmerich6775 set to 38F

[@Brocephus77]

My 2 Ampertime 400ah batteries fit in my stock battery box and small compartment with heaters on my class c motorhome. Had them for years with no issues. 👍🏻

[@danemmerich6775]

How do you heat your batteries? Or compartment?

[@Brocephus77]

@@danemmerich6775 temperature controlled RV water, black or gray water tank heaters. They work great 👍🏻

[@rage801]

​@@danemmerich6775I think he means they have the self heating feature

[@lightitrun5209]

Needed a small self heated 12v lithium battery. Got an epoch B grade 50ah self heated on sale. Got a small tote, insulated it and wha la. Works great in my hunting blind. 10 amp mppt with 400 watts of solar panels. Only 1 problem when I got it, wouldn't turn on. BMS battery lead wasn't plugged in. Great customer service at Epoch. IMO

[@SnifferSock]

400w seems overkill for a 50ah. Unless they are shaded?

[@lightitrun5209]

​@@SnifferSockyes partial shade.

[@gsp49]

Good to see you coming back to life! I like the Li Time

[@walterpark8824]

Another great video, short and complete! One detail, though -- $2,000 is 33 pct more than 1500 (500/1500}, not 25 pct more. But the Litiime IS 25 pct cheaper -- (500/1,999}.

[@Steven-e7c]

It's all the same difference. Haha

[@afdgxzghzgfhgfzhazghzdfhxf]

@@Steven-e7c No it's not.

[@ssteele1812]

This is exactly why I never pay attention to the "pct" statements. 33%, 25%... Who cares. It's a $500 difference. Nuff said. These aren't soft drinks where you get 3 oz more for the same price.

[@tweedeldee8122]

Thank you for everything Will! Tough call. Just depends on your budget. One thing I take into account is a least going 24v or 48v if you have enough solar voltage. My small solar project doesn't justify two of these so I do 4 -100 Amp 12v (cheap $260 at the time) in series - parralel to get to 24v. I think theres merit to going 24/48 even on an RV. I found out it's really a balancing act. Too many panels not enough battery no good. Too much battery not enough panels no good. 2 or 4 of these bad boys would be awesome if you have enough panels. I guess I would go LiTime, because I'm always thinking of ROI. That build and fuse on the Epoch really is nice tho.

[@fishhuntadventure]

That’s very goal dependent, though. And opinion dependent. LiFePo doesn’t care if it doesn’t get to 100% every day, so if runtime/days for a backup system are important, having insufficient solar panels to 100% recover a full discharge in one day may not be as disconcerting to many. Even for weekenders in an RV- they have all week long to recover the batteries. It’s not as consequential as when everyone ran lead acid batteries, and whatever charging one gets from “too few” panels extends run time capacity every day: “two days” of battery capacity with 50% of “necessary” panels means you extend battery bank capacity by ~1/2 day every day which sorta works out to five days of usage. Not a problem there. I have 500Ah 12V of LiFePo and I’m only feeding them with ~1700W currently as some panels aren’t connected and one charge controller is currently not turned on. Theoretically (with my locality) the short sun-hours and typically overcast days I “do not have enough panels.” And yet I haven’t run out of battery bank or had to run the generator for weeks now. If all my main 2700W were running I’m way overpanelled for a lot of the year and that’s not a problem, either. It’s a matter of perspective- a subjective perception. What works is what works.

[@flashgordon9989]

The Epoch is actually 33% higher than the Li Time, 33% of $1500 is $500. Although the Li Time is 25% less than the Epoch. Definitely would buy Epoch.

[@jimbobkitty]

that's what i was gonna say 😁🤣

[@mikemotorbike4283]

Yes I agreee, this math trickiness is interesting, and it may save you actual money during a transaction if you catch the mistake someday : "Epoch is 33% more than Litime, but Litime is 25% less than Epoch. 1,500 plus 1/3 of 1,500 is 2,000, ...one third more. 2,000 minus 1/4 of 2,000 is 1,500...one quarter less

[@MYCHANNELWITHMYSTUFF]

its even worse. these battery prices are while the sale price lasts. once the sale is over Li time is $2100 and epoch is $3000. is epoch still worth the higher price if not on sale?

[@flashgordon9989]

@@MYCHANNELWITHMYSTUFF In my opinion, yes. Due to the superior BMS and bus bar connections. Overall build quality of the Epoch is way better. Maybe the answer comes down to "how long do you plan to have whatever it's installed in". I have Battleborn and bought them long before either of these 2 brands came out. When I traded campers, I kept the batteries. If I needed batteries today, I would buy the Epoch X 2.

[@camerakid76]

@@mikemotorbike4283Now that you know how parsing data works you can go in to marketing or be a politician.. 😂

[@SteveHallstensen]

I bought the Epoch for my trailer. The price (Holiday sale was an additional 15% off) made it the lightest and lowest cost per amp hr compared to anything else. Especially when factoring in all the features.

[@shelley131]

Personally I would buy the Epoch. Just better quality built and has more to offer. It never really is just black and white. Like my Honda 2200 generator. One can buy two generators for the same size out put but what many do not realize is the Honda has a larger motor there buy having less voltage drop. When you buy quality it comes at a cost. I'm a firm believer of buy once cry once. Buying cheaper normally turns out more expensive in the long run. Never new about Epoch batteries until you showed it too me, Thanks .

[@ernieschatz3783]

Knew

[@mikenavy360]

Well I would go with the LiTime because I took your word and bought 16 of them. LoL. I'm still happy with mine. If I was going to buy only one or two, I would do the Epoch.

[@bermyFairn]

Bought 4 200 amp hr last year for the catamaran. Still work well , no problems. If you are in a warm climate and dont need to charge in the cold, they are perfect. And cheap. $$.

[@fauxque5057]

Depends on the use for me. If it's in a camper, boat, RV, or mobile system that moves around I would probably want the more robust expensive battery. But if it's going to do what all of my batteries do, and that's sit on the porch and never moving, I'm going to save some money. I'm still buying Chins 12v 100ah batteries and wiring them in series for 48v. Just picked up 4 for $760. which is crazy compared to what I paid in the past. The server rack batteries are cool, expensive, and cost big money to ship.

[@arlenekufchock1394]

I would love to pay that price but they took up too much footprint and volume compared to 48V lithium batteries. So we paid nearly double for 48V lithium batteries that are half the volume size each. Space is limited in our mechanical room.

[@ChristopherLuongo]

$190 for 100aH battery? Where?

[@fauxque5057]

@@ChristopherLuongo I hate KZbin. They won't let me say the word that reminds you of a rainforest and deleted my comment. Anyhow I went to my past purchases and click on the item. Apparently they aren't offering the 4 pack because it took me to a single battery for $219. They still have Dr Prepare 4 packs in the same price range.

[@fauxque5057]

@@arlenekufchock1394 I bought a Harbor Freight 3 shelve rolling cart that holds 12 batteries just fine. Not good for mobile use, and I question rolling the cart around with over 300lbs of batteries even if it's rated for 450lbs. But for sitting still it holds 12 batteries just fine

[@ChristopherLuongo]

@@fauxque5057 I also hate KZbin and all these automated censorship bots. I did look on the rainforest site and I found a Doctor Prepare 100aH for $195 with coupon. I’ll take a look at it. Thanks!

[@edm7356]

I am not sure I believe what the LiTime people are saying about cycle time to 80%. You can say whatever you want, who's going to know.

[@skinosensei]

As Will says many times in his videos, the battery will most likely die from old age long before it does from cycling it.

[@bobjones9727]

Yep. It would take you 2.5 years to complete 6000 discharge and recharge cycles if you went non stop and used their max discharge/recharge rating of 250 amps. I asked how they proved it to make that claim.

[@2hotscottpro]

Well,they lied about having cold temp sensor a year or two ago.Will did a vid opening bat.

[@john_in_phoenix]

Good luck finding Li Time in 5 years.

[@lynettesharp7728]

I think I'd buy the more expensive one with the 11yr.warranty.

[@BradMangas]

I will be starting a high end offgrid van build this year. As of right now, I will be going with the Epoch batteries. I appreciate all the information you provide. Take care fella.

[@twodogsandtheirfamily]

Love our Epoch 460Ah battery in our RV.

[@leehwhiz]

I just received my 300 Ah Epoch battery and it's impressive. During my decision phase I watched you and other reviewers discussing the battery that I ordered in December and just received. And because I am doing a major upgrade to my motorcoach it still we be a month or so till I place it in service, but currently have it attached to my Victron Solar Control to top it off. But I'm convinced that this is the battery of choice and definitely beats LiTime on the low end of price and the Battleborn battery on the upper price range. I will be ordering a second battery in the near future to make my system a two battery system, and the only fault I see at the moment is the delay waiting for a purchased battery to be delivered.

[@AndrewMetcalfe]

I have trouble fitting two Epochs into my Ford Transit. I'm able to stack two Li Times vertically with an 8020 rack while keeping the bed above them at 22 inches.. I don't have the room to stack the Epochs vertically, I'd hve to raise the bed 4 inches higher. The only way I could use the Epochs is if I mounted them sideways, which would surely confuse the temp sensors & heaters. Also, Epoch has been out-of-stock for a month now.

[@KalFx3]

I use 24v so its been LiTime for me. so far so good

[@robf2403]

I have one of Epoch's 12v 100AH units and I've installed a 51.2v60ah kit on a golf cart. I was really surprised on the quality of the components of the golf cart kit, and how well everything integrated. On top of that, I did have a small self caused technical issue. Made a phone call, spoke to a person immediately, and my issue was resolved by a tech in less than 5 minutes. I wouldn't hesitate to go Epoch again.

[@rosscauseyiii4540]

I chose the middle ground and went with three 230 amp hour La time batteries with low temperature cut off. The Epic battery is an amazing piece

[@whispers391]

Sold on li time! I'm a big fan of simple, same with chargers and battery monitoring. No Bluetooth, all onboard displays, less dependent on always having my phone

[@wanhedah]

Simple is always better, too much tech always gets complicated with time. I am from Uganda and I only need high temperature disconnect because we have never reached 17 degrees C. LiTime is my choice for simplicity. Appreciate your work Sir

[@cabracove]

There's a new Epoch 460 sitting in my garage for the van. The remote power switch is really nice. One touch, no more shutting down the inverter and fuse panels when not in use. Yes, I'm lazy, lol

[@richardkoch8752]

You're my kind of guy!...........Yes, I'm lazy also...........Epoch all the way!

[@k5edd128]

Smiling! Been researching these batteries to replace my old gel cell I use for back up for my Ham Radio. We do some emergency traffic net check ins to test our back up power, just in case the world goes crazier, and this kind of battery looks like it would do the trick. We also have a couple of 2-meter band repeaters that could use them on the solar system, their batteries are getting weak. Great info and I like the way you rip them apart to see the sloppy or good craftmanship. K5EDD 50 years of ham radio.

[@karlsoffthegrid1378]

After powering my small cabin, with solar for the last two years, I would definitely choose the epoch. It’s a real pain in the butt not having a low temperature sensor. I’m constantly removing and taking my battery back home so everything stays warm and ready to charge.

[@GlennHolden]

Choice would depend on application. For me, using it on a sailboat as an off-grid system, I would go with the LiTime. Bang for buck it would provide what is needed for a long time!

[@sailaway8244]

2:30 "bolting them together" isn't a problem Simply build a mounting rack out of metal channel (known in the UK as unistrut ). It comes in sizes 40 × 25 shallow × 40 deep × 80 double. Simply bolt the batteries onto the channel using L brackets, channel fittings come in M6/8/10/12 . The channel itself can be Used build the server racks much cheaper and far stronger than anything you are likely to be able to purchase of the shelf I used to build and work on offshore unmanned gas platforms the battery backup systems were constructed like this the cells were about ×4 the size of those featured and overall each battery bank measured around 4×4×6 (ft)

[@edwardlulofs444]

Unistrut is good stuff. All physics lab equipment is built using it. That’s all that I remember seeing in the labs.

[@sailaway8244]

@@edwardlulofs444 yes built a level 3 bio lab out of it in 2017-18 .... just in time (apparently)🤦.....and data centers too 🤦🤦🤦

[@Sylvan_dB]

I like that approach. Could use a piece of strut across the top of the battery(s) with some all-thread on the ends to hold them down. Unistrut is a brand name that has become synonymous with that material. We have that brand (and a few others) here in the USA as well.

[@jamestrimble5680]

It depends on the build. For a cheap battery backup with a simple 3000 watt inverter that you use once or twice per year when the power goes out the LiTime would be fine. If I was putting this in an RV then the Epoch would be the way to go. For home backup I think 48V is the way to go.

[@camerakid76]

I don’t know enough to know what I need… I’m building out a cargo trailer. I need to be able to charge/run a couple of laptops, charge camera batteries and ideally run a small heater/AC when absolutely necessary. I need to be able to plug in and charge at campsites and at some point install some panels to power the system. Right now I live off a Jackery, generator, and my trucks alternator, and campsite power when I can get it. Thanks for being here Will! I hope to get it figured out this year. Saving for the system will likely take a year or more.

[@StevefromOhio1972]

For the price of the LiTime you can get a 48v 100 ah server rack battery with an LCD , smart BMS and circuit breaker. You can get a basic 48v 100ah battery like the LiTime you have there for hundreds less. So my advice is chuck the 12v and 24v stuff and go with 48v. unless there is a specific reason you must stick with those lower voltage batteries and systems. If I'm thinking 15 to 20 years into the future, I'd go with 48v. and save some money too.

[@enigma9789]

You dont want a server rack battery in a boat or motor home

[@danAlbritton]

@@enigma9789 EG4 server rack batteries are warrantied for 10 years when mounted in an RV. You can even mount them vertically, which is great for tucking them out of the way.

[@ssteele1812]

RVs are 12v based. Even if all your solar stuff can do 48v, you will need to add a component to power the 12v system. That adds complexity. I'll stick with the 12v batteries.

[@skinosensei]

The question for me is whether the additional features are necessary, and if so, worth $500 for just one battery. For someone using it as the sole battery mounted 24/7 in an RV, it may be worth it. I’m an amateur (ham) radio operator. So, I have no use for an energy-depleting inverter. Everything running on the battery is DC. I also don’t connect high-current or inductive loads to my LiFePO4 battery. The most I’ll draw in total is less than 25A for short durations when transmitting a 100W signal. Furthermore, I don’t leave my battery unattended in the cold. If it is outdoors, so am I, right beside it. When I use a portable solar panel to charge my battery, if it’s too cold to charge it, it’s too cold for me too. So, I’m not concerned about low-temperature charging. If I must charge it in freezing temperatures, it’s going to be snuggled in a warm tent or vehicle, just as I am. The only add-on I would use with the battery would be a shunt-based capacity meter. I would rather have it be external to the battery so I can transfer it to whatever battery I’m using at the time. Generally speaking, a very effective means to extend the capacity of a battery is to avoid converting to AC or to different voltages. Install only DC equipment in an RV. Instead of plugging wall warts into an inverter, run DC-powered items, like laptops, WiFi routers, LED lights, and phone chargers by way of buck and boost converters instead.

[@AltereggoLol1]

Sorry to bother you, but do you have any tips or links for running electronics directly from 13-14V systems? I'm testing a home-built DC UPS for my electronics, and want to know if I'm missing important safety features. Do you use any voltage-reducing/feedback-preventing diodes? Can most 12V electronics handle 14.7V from solar chargers? Do you directly wire to your fuse block, or do you have a plug panel?

[@Paulwilliams203]

I love 12v systems, when I get my shed I will try and set up a small solar set up to power lights and possibly kettle 👍🏻

[@nodripsman]

Built my first off grid style backup generator, with manual transfer switch about 12 months back..Powerqueen parellel 100ah x 4 VICTRON Blue 150/70 charge controller with dongle, blue tooth monitor, 3000 watt Renergy, inverter and 1 kw Thunderbolt monocrystaline panles in Series with upgrade MC4 connectors, awesome little system for emergency Backup and can handle a couple small window ac units all day with full sun.

[@jimolsen8632]

To me, Scottie said it best, “The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain”. I’m happy with my Eco-Worthy that look exactly the same as the Li time. Of course, my opinion. JimO

[@scottcampbell4116]

Being a retired 78 year old with limited structured income, I welcome projects like this as it is a do-able one for me. I'd be installing this project in my 40' diesel motorhome taking advantage of the budget option you have mentioned. And , like all of my projects, I have the wife to convince... Wish me luck!

[@mikenavy360]

They do sell a reman LiTime.

[@darthtater]

I love how Epoch integrates the BMS heatsink into the exposed emblem plate.

[@droberts73543]

I'd have to go with the LiTime mostly because I don't have the budget for Epoch

[@CoddiwompleTravelers]

We have been using the LiTime for a couple of years now and love them. They work for what we use them for and have a reasonable price for what you get

[@thedefendertheboston4160]

LOVE watching your content. Alas im in the 4x4 12v community. Im main concern is road corrugations, it is the most brutal stress test we have on africa expeditious. Could you please test the corrugation / vibration effect?

[@luckyjim51]

4 years ago I bought 2 battleborn batteries for 2000 dollars. Now I can get twice the battery for the same money. I live in Minnesota in the batteries live in my van. So i definitely want the heater. Doing it now I might step up to 48v... Things are changing your yearly so who knows....

[@enigma9789]

Go to 48v and never look back.

[@IAMSatisfied]

During the Black Friday season I purchased three 12v 100ah LiTime batteries to make a portable battery-inverter system for about half the price of what you could buy the ready made units. I was able to get the 300ah of batteries for $825, and bought a large Pelican case to house everything. I wanted a battery-inverter set-up that was larger than what is available, and I ended up paying the same ~$2k in the end. I didn't need the features that the Epoch offers.

[@amop33]

I did buy the 230 Plus w/low temp... dropped it on the tongue of my travel trailer. Works like a champ (San Diego). Do have the Victron Bluetooth BMS. Rennogy 60A charge controller. It all just works.

[@tomphillips3253]

You handled the contents of this video very well. It was clear and concise. I bought the Litime 12.8V 100Ah Max Lithium Battery LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery, Built-in 150A BMS, 1280Wh Energy, 4000+ Cycles, 1920W Load Power.

[@LibertyTrawler]

Got 2 of the 460 ah Epoch as soon as they came out

[@WillProwse]

How do you like them so far

[@LibertyTrawler]

@@WillProwse Only done benchwork so far. Will be installed into a DeFever 43. Key for me was the Victron integration.

[@brushbum7508]

Thanks Will ! TAKE CARE..

[@goodoz9942]

I'd go for the LiTimes...That said, I already own several of the Victron ecosystem components on different battery banks. I own some LiTime batts and they don't disappoint. Also, a few years ago (on your advice) I purchased several SOK 206AH batteries. I use those with Victron setups and they perform flawlessly. All 12V batts, but my SOKs are configured into 24V a system.

[@pasquale2652]

I'd also go with the Epoch. Thanks, Will, for another great video.

[@markogaz]

It would be great to see a build with the internal fuse used and communication with the Victron system.

[@JackFalltrades]

I think it depends upon your application. You don't need a fancy case with waterproof connectors indoors. The shunt, Bluetooth, etc can be external to the battery itself. I think you have plenty of videos showing how it's done. For me, the bells and whistles aren't worth the extra expense.

[@Token_Civilian]

IDK, from what you've presented, both seem like they could be a good choice, depending on the details of a particular system (like for example, would you ever really need to worry about cold temps there in Vegas, esp if they were inside a garage / building). If you can afford the extra $500 / battery, clearly the Epoch is a battery with superior features. LiTime seems like a lot of bang for the entry level buck. Call it the stripped down base model car vs the one from the factory with all the bells and whistles. If you need "basic" capability at absolute minimum cost, seems like the Li might be the choice. If you have a bit of room in the budget, or simply need the features, Epoch is worth the extra cost.

[@adriangleprin6949]

The Epoch , i have already bought one and installed it . This was ordered the time you did the first review .

[@ricoma6037]

Would love to see you utilize micro inverters in a design. While there may be some drawbacks, it seems like the design is straightforward, though I need a better understanding that your experience can provide. Thank you!

[@jtb2586]

7:21 The more simple, less change of something braking, nice al the communication futures but they can break.

[@xsauce3858]

Finally someone thinks like me

[@GoodkatNW]

For less than $2000 a few weeks ago, we bought: 400aH of LiTime 100Ah batteries on sale (approx. $215ea at the time), Victron SmartSolar 150:75 MPPT controller, Victron SmartShunt, Victron SmartBatterySense, Victron Orion-TR Smart 12:12 DC-DC isolated charger, and a 100aH AGM starting battery. Total cost was around $1950. Unless you have a significantly larger budget, it really does not make sense to buy the Epoch instead of basically an ENTIRE ecosystem that is reliable and robust. We don't need 3000+ watts of output.

[@Brian-ds5gq]

Just ordered my second Li time 24v 235 amp 200a bms.I Paid 1350 for my fist one and ordered second one like new used over 10000 watts price per KW and it will feed my victron 24 3000 no problem even at 160 amp draw to make 120v AC at 29 amps I watch a lot of your videos. I'd be willing to bet it'll run your car lift no problem I just finished watching one year older Videos concerning charge controllers.And how onless you are using LA don't need to worry about communicating or nothing simple.Hopefully, I understood that right.Thank you for all your work 9:24

[@HebrewNomadOverlander]

And He quotes "These batteries will probably die, after you do" Will may not know it, but he always has the best quotes. Love ya young man.

[@MrFredsDIY]

Great comparison! For a higher end system like you said in your previous video, the Epoch is the way to go. With everything being so expensive these days that Li Time is looking better and better lol

[@mikemotorbike4283]

crystallization of the dissimilar metals used in solder joints may be a big issue and require reflowing the soldier after ten years. 25 years ago My electronics tech mentor said is was common issue on electronics, like amps tvs etc. Now, with amps it affects the sound; with a battery, perhaps sound not an issue but the BMS is all digital requiring exact communication, and also like amps have capacitors which degrade over time and need attention. Also good point about the little vent; with repeated cooling and warming cycles, condensation accumulates. Will that humidity rot the battery over time, or short circuit the BMS maybe depositing minerals on the circuit board?

[@frateroz]

I went with the Enjoybot 400ah. They are supposedly putting low temperature cut offs in them now.

[@JoelWelter]

I've had two LiTime batteries so far (200 Ah and 100 Ah). I didn't need any monitoring, because I did it with various attachments that I used with the battery. The only thing I wished it had was low temp protection. It never was an issue for me because I had my fifth wheel trailer and solar panels covered during the cold winter months up north, but I can see how you would want it in case you get a cold streak when traveling in the South. $400 bucks is $400 bucks, though. I'd go with a good quality, cheaper build every time.

[@michaeldean3771]

The markers on the bolts usually identify they have been Torque checked in normal industry.

[@robertfortier9098]

I do warm climate camping. Li Time has been around long enough to trust them if used properly. That's my vote.

[@arlenekufchock1394]

6000 cycles is huge, a major swaying factor towards LiTime! It makes me blink and look not twice but 3 and 4 times. However, 86 lbs for LiTime and 97 pounds for Epoch makes my back hurt, but doable in a pinch and I would've considered it 2 months ago. 2 months ago I would've picked Epoch for everything included in tidy design PLUS heating, for my 2013 Ford Transit Connect Camper Van build. But lets say I was living in it 2-3 weeks at a time, and I do already have some leftover victron components from another solar car camping build 2 years old, would a $26 silicone heating pad work with the LiTime and be an appropriate application here for a camper van build? These heating pads are traditionally used for regular ICE car batteries, and I've heard RVs and Van Builds have been using them as retrofit, but do they set the LiTime battery directly on the orange silicone heating pad? Or put an insulator between the 2? Could you make a video about that? Or is it considered unsafe so people don't make youtube videos about that? But VanLifers do it anyway in practice, or do they use another product as a heating pad? Ultimately due to WEIGHT and price 2 months ago I had to choose $899 Bluetti AC180 with bluetti 200W folding portable solar panels 2 months ago because I don't want to wrench my back moving the system in and out of my 2017 Prius Prime for car camping (which I'm highly successful at). And I can use same system for car camping in my new to me 2013 Ford Transit Connect, which is colder because it's not built out yet, but I'm working on that. And I need to bring my battery inside my house most the time because my car and van is too hot or too cold for best maintainability of the battery. If Bluetti hadn't offered the great price with all in one 2 - 6 months ago, I'd be looking at the Epoch for the Ford Transit Connect due to so many safety options added in for the price, and still might as my build progresses further along, or as I consider larger camper van builds in the future that I can actually stand up in.

[@davidnelson7407]

On the cycle life comparison, I couldn't find anywhere that the Epoch battery stated the DOD for the 3500 cycle life. When I started working with LiFePO4 batteries in the early 2000s, the cycle life was stated as 100%DOD until the battery had either 80% or 70% of rated capacity. Typically, the quality cells were rated to 80% and the cheaper ones to 70%. Given that the LiTime battery lists 4000 cycles at 100%DOD, I suspect that the cells in the LiTime battery are not necessarily better than in the Epoch battery. Since neither one lists the rated capacity degradation, not much comparison can be made other than the longer warranty of the Epoch battery. For me, I would go with the Epoch battery because of the extra features built in.

[@matthewburga]

I like it when Will says 'buttons' without the letter T.

[@alexcain7788]

I would use the third option Signature Solar EG4 LL in 12 Volt and 400 amps. The cost is $1495 with free shipping until Feb 28, 2024. This model has the LCD display which shows Voltage current and state of charge. Failing that I would go for the Epoch for the ability to monitor the state of charge and the low temp protection and the better build quality.

[@bambambundy6]

Something to be said for simplicity. If it was me it would be the LiTime, but I do have others running perfectly! Great vid as always!

[@jaywendling9396]

I would pay more for the safety features and the built-in shunt. Epoch hands down!

[@mnmandthegang]

I would definitely buy the EPOCH Battery, having the extra features and being able to communicate with the Victron Inverter is great. My battery compartment is in the middle of my coach behind a panel in the basement.

[@u4eagun]

I got the 24v Ampere Time / li time, from a few years ago. I got them off amazon with gift cards I collected. Would of liked to get server racked brands but getting the cash to them was the problem, and paying the full amount all in one go.

[@tinkering123]

Good comparison Will. I'm expecting you to come up with the perfect portable system (gadget) that Will change our world. Keep it up.

[@JeffinTD]

Low temp charger protection I think would be a must have feature. Built in T fuse, included shunt, and self-heating are all big pluses.

[@Hunter357mag]

You get what you pay for. The Epic seems to have the features that easily justify 25% higher price. Blows me away how much more battery you can get now. I bought mine in 2021 for quite a bit more per AH.

[@dougwelch8890]

I'm converting my small system on a 5th wheel to lithium and a larger inverter. Since I'm going all Victron, the Epoch is a no brainer. And I do camp when it's cold so I need the self heating function.

[@glenndennis6801]

Well, I think it depends on usage. If i was getting 1 or 2 for a mobile application, (say my boat) I would go with the Epoch. On the other hand if I was getting 4 or more for a stationary situation i would probability go with the Li Time.

[@Sam-f1k8e]

3 is a few, $500 more is a rip. ~2 years ago i bought two 230ah Litime for $1000. now 100% is 457ah. i'm very happy with that since i wasn't charging to 100% till recently, thanks to your videos🤙🏼

[@ZonaJim]

I purchased four Li Time 230 aH batteries in November '23. They are working well in my new fifth wheel. I was able to get a black Friday sale price AND they gave me an 8% military discount! I already have a Victron Shunt and temp control through my Cerbo, so I don't need the added features of the Epoch.

[@digger105337]

Military discount? Were you in the Chinese Military? 😂

[@ZonaJim]

@@digger105337 I served in the American military. How about you candy ass?

[@hobbydarren]

As I live in northern Alberta Canada where we see temps down to -40 Celsius regularly in winter, Id have to say the Epoch is the only option for our climate.

[@goodcitizen4587]

These batteries are SO nice. Was just doing 18650 banks not long ago.

[@Nick-im3sm]

Epoch.. The T class fuse, low temp charging protection and shunt are worth the added cost, and that's 2 things you'll typically need in a system anyways. The better case and build quality are just bonuses at that point.

[@user-uj6pz5yz9u]

I use a renogy deep cycle 12v 300ah with heater and low temp protection for $1280 CAD. Been happy with it and it still runs in cabin at -45c with a r5 box

[@CheapCheerful]

Love these battery teardowns. Please do more, especially of the worst / cheapest batteries, it makes for great entertainment IMHO :)

[@crashrc1175]

12 volt Battery Storage size was the size of a lead acid 100ah battery… and the height constraints was crucial measurement. Given a 100 amp hour lead acid was the standard size everyone used. 8.5 inch height. These battery’s won’t fit in boats and or RV’s unless planned before build out, not good for replacements. And the size also is crucial for transportation to and from its desired compartment. It has to fit.

[@samrjuliea]

While I would love to save money on the LiTime, the Epoch is probably the better one for me as I do want to use in an all season setting so during the cold months the built in heaters and stuff make so much more sense.

[@timaz1066]

I have the skinny 200 amp hour, Lossigy batteries, four of them. They have worked great for the past two years. I live full-time in my motorhome and 99% of the time they are charged with solar.

[@ablejohnson]

The EG4 12/400 is on sale for 999$ thst seems to be the best deal at the moment over all, however both the litime and epoch look like great options depending on your own dimensional requirements or limitations and your feature preferences.

[@VTX1029]

My only problem with the epoch batteries is the discharge cutoff temp they set them too. We regularly see temps below that threshold, for that reason alone I will buy the cheap one and add the features I need. Also the heaters in them only turn on when you are trying to charge the battery.

[@wheelspin1000]

Thumbs UP! Get the server rack battery in 24 or 48 volt - done!

[@josephcormier5974]

When ever I can afford one is what I will get but I thank you for the information six stars

[@ScottieBMan]

Been happy with EPOCH golf cart and marine 12v batteries, will continue to do business.