12V LiFePO4 Heat Torture Test! Did we kill it!?

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[@WillProwse]

Comment what you thought the degradation would be below! Affiliate link for this battery: amzn.to/3MuohMW If you want batteries that don't suck, check out my recommendations here! www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html If you need a budget friendly 48V system, check out this: www.mobile-solarpower.com/mobile-48v-system.html

[@mannyfragoza9652]

Thats pretty Amazing wow

[@Techboxreview]

Super surprising mate 👍

[@ChinaChuck]

I was anticipating 85-90%. That's some happy news! Very encouraging.

[@elouiegautane7137]

What 😂😂 i will knever die..😂😂😂 you never kill this battery hollycraft 🤭🤭🤭😂😂😆😆🤣🤣

[@user-vu4jx7ne4t]

Really I thought it was gone be flat lined out side my first on I left. Out like that sun baked it dry so I didn't expect over 50 percent can't lie so that really Great

[@gregoryhurst5982]

That's what I expected. Everybody says do not charge while freezing or you will immediately and permanently destroy the battery but I highly doubt that will happen. You really should try it since you say in almost every review that you should never charge while freezing. It's almost impossible to find a video of anybody that has ever tried it.

[@neutronpcxt372]

The trick here is to never charge at normal rates when freezing. If you charge at 0.5C at ambient temps, then charging at 0.05-0.1C will likely be fine. It's understandable why people always recommend to never charge below freezing without active temperature management however because unless you have a leading edge cell, you'll kill it rapidly.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

I have a friend that have lost about 25% of their capacity after 3 days of backpacking away from their teardrop. It was cold though...10F for a high

[@Zorlig]

He did that test once I think, putting it in a freezer then changing it.

[@NorCalNiche]

This

[@torkalovolodymyr5097]

​@@Zorligbut it was battery with heating element

[@barnowl6807]

I too use one of these for my gate opener. I solved the cold charge problem by placing a temperature sensitive "snap" switch in the positive lead from the solar panel. It opens at 35 F. The BMS takes care of high temp and charge control. Crude but effective and the current involved is well below the switch rating.

[@WillProwse]

That's cool

[@WillProwse]

Which one do you use

[@TheCrawdadman]

This could definitely be a great cheap solution for low temp cut off!

[@barnowl6807]

An old one. Seriously, It was selected from my junk box after testing a collection of about 20. The criteria that I chose was: Low temp cut off - 35 F. Rising temp turn on - about 40 F. The one I found was "close enough". I do know it is a lot easier to find high temperature devices. I started off using an old mercury bulb type HVAC room temp controller. That worked but started becoming erratic after some moisture go to the bimetallic spring. I'm sure a web search will turn up something modern.@@WillProwse

[@AIM54A]

Amazing timing.. I just used that same battery for Halloween.. However, I charge it up use for only 1 night a year, charge it up and let it sit in the garage until next year. Hasn't failed me yet.

[@george9258]

That’s awesome leaving it out there for two years I know I live in Las Vegas 😂

[@NeverTakeNoShortcuts]

Now here's a battery review I want to see....

[@SunHarvest]

Will, you are the battery sensei

[@jasonnguyen5842]

I have Lipo4 300A/ea. batteries for about 10yrs now & still working. My batteries bank about 76K Ahr.

[@zodiacfml]

this the reason LFP is currently the best for EVs. Even LFP with Manganese is not good, while it slightly increases density, it sacrifices a lot of the cycle life and maybe durability. I'm also not too keen on sodium ion chemistry for several years as I think LFP will be price competitive considering the performance superiority.

[@StellanLarsson]

Nice video! This one of many reasons the Nobel price was given to the inventers.

[@JeffSkymaster]

I was guessing 30% loss, Good stuff

[@PrairieStation]

I had some led acid batteries for 10 years operating in Temps from -7f to 118f and not even fully charged all the time.

[@MJ-ge6jz]

FYI, When you order new LifePO4 batteries from the manufacture they are shipped at 50% state of charge by law. So if you don't plan on using your batteries immediately I recommend topping them off with a bat charger to 100% as Will recommends.

[@emailausdrucker]

Amazing. Kudos to the manufacturer.

[@clarencewiles963]

I agree, go for it. No shade or protection! 😂

[@herobrine00700]

i say do your own video of cycling lifepo4 in freezing temps!

[@salembeeman370]

Will, you are a gift to the solar community.

[@jeffhenley9851]

If time has taught me anything it’s to pay attention to you. So far your information has been solid even in your book. Thanks

[@donbrloks3959]

Thanks for that info. Still a lot of misinformation out there with carryover from lithium ion batteries to keep between 80-20%.

[@bjorn_moren]

LiFePO4 is a type of lithium-ion battery. Do you mean Li-poly?

[@invisibilianone6288]

I should try to do a 'Reassembly Video', on the batteries Will has , um, , , disassembled....lol

[@Techboxreview]

Lifepo4 continue to surprise me. I have some old batteries that are still chugging along nicely 😎

[@tsp2jxd]

Simple pleasure. A battery that works well. I feel ya Will.

[@antibrevity]

Great real-world test! These long-term tests are critical to understand how these batteries last and thus how much value they truly offer. This battery shows that lead-acid is absolutely worthless except for starting ICE engines and even there lithium can be a good value in the long run or in applications where weight matters.

[@teeanahera8949]

Pretty stupid. Lead acid deep cycle is not worthless and in fact is worthwhile. US Li battery prices are much lower than some other countries but in my country for 100 amp hours lead acid deep cycle I paid $ one fifth of the cost of an equivalent LiPo4. It is charged by a 50 amp DC to DC charger in the car and a 200w solar panel on the car roof. I use a 8awg cable (pos & neg) to connect to my caravan. It is all the power I need to run the pressure pump, lights, 3 phones, 2 tablets and the vent fan. There would be no advantage in having a Li battery for this purpose and they cost about $900 (in my country) for the 100a/hr one recommended by Will in the pinned comments).

[@davidmercer5561]

I don't know where you are in Vegas but I'm in Arizona and I know how hot it gets on that side of the house and I can't believe that it's not destroyed

[@billjacobs8035]

It did pretty dang good?? Come on Will, this thing just Aced it!! Give credit where credits due. This supposedly pos showed just what it's made of😊 Haha, every once in a while, every a blind squirrel finds a nut now and than. I wonder how many other forgotten jewels are still chugging along years later?

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

Thanks COOP ...

[@newsgeekus1216]

Crazy results. Thanks!

[@talentcell882]

1. TalentCell’s product has good quality; 2. Almost all small capacity lifepo4 batteries without low temperatures protection. Lifepo4 battery can slow charge at -20 Celsius degrees; 3. It’s better keep charge ratio between 30%-50% during storage.

[@k5edd128]

Smiling! Sir Will, yours is a fun channel to watch, I have learned a lot. Been wanting a battery backup for my computers and ham radio since my Alph gell cell died and looks like LiEe Po4 is the way to go. At soon to be 74, seems like they will last as long as me, but I am going for 100. Smile! Ordered the EG4 3000 watt inverter and the EG4 48 volt battery and just got confermation it has shipped. Keep it up sir. 73 K5EDD: celebrating 50 years of Amateur Radio/ham radio this year, great hobby.

[@Intellistan]

Keep it comin' bro😎

[@brushbum7508]

I always enjoy seeing what's next ! TAKE CARE..

[@KEAWE7]

That is some good results!

[@TundeEszlari]

Amazing video, keep it up Will Prowse, looking forward to your next content, I love your content. ❤

[@junkerzn7312]

I love those little 20Ah LiFePO4 batteries. They are useful for so many things! I even hang a few off my 24V system. 24V -> Victron 75/15 -> 12V to serve as buffer batteries for certain critical 12V devices. -Matt

[@zapcjw]

I'm doing similar 2kw @24v li- ion built myself through a converter to a 2.4 kw 12v china bomb to keep it at constant 13.6v in my RV

[@terrencekamusoko4347]

good job and good explanations as well in all your videos keep it up!

[@MrBombadill]

Big thanks for all your content! When are you planning on covering Sodium batteries?

[@krprasad7519]

Never expected!

[@K7CARadio]

Will, how about doing a cold temp. torture test with various 100-200ah batteries/cells.

[@DivineMoonlight108]

Second this from Canada

[@rodmartel3143]

Yes. From Northern Minnesota.

[@benbocc1549]

Epic video, more please!

[@chejda6066]

Thanks!

[@CD3WD-Project]

As always great and very informative videos.

[@tinkering123]

Just what I love to do, tinkering in my backyard. Keep on testing and reviewing. THANKS

[@DutchAussieProductions]

Greetings from Australia. Thanks for all your great videos, Will. I have learned a lot from you. Have a nice day.

[@phlogistanjones2722]

Thank Will for the most important video I believe you have ever done. Cheers.

[@thedabbler2753]

The little battery that could! Glad you showed mercy and put it back to work :)

[@clarencewiles963]

PS looking for the new shop look see! 😊

[@davidjones1393]

THKS

[@ChuckisOutside]

I’ve had an idea of placing a lifepo4 battery in a water proof container like a pelican case or small plastic barrel and placing it underground to keep it at a more constant temperature. Maybe to charge a gate opener or electric fence charger.

[@petertomas3665]

i think its a good idea for inviroment with extreme temperatures.

[@RizzayDJ]

It could be a good idea depending on the setup and environment. I could definitely benefit from it. Living in Minnesota, we can be months below freezing every day. Our frost line varies but freezing Temps will get down to 40+ inches in soil. Our horse waterer piping is 6 ft. Down but the automated portion runs through a sealed 16" tube that breaks the ground surface. The interesting feature is that the ground depth of the tube is something like 8 ft. The total volume of air exposed to unfrozen ground is considerable and so keeps all mechanicals from freezing. You could achieve something similar for a battery by just having a deep enough hole and good insulation at frozen soil and surface. The earth will provide slow geothermal heating so that you could still access the battery if you wanted or needed to. Conversely, any air space created in this way could help buffer the battery if it were to put out any significant heat through high amp draw.

[@tonysmith9061]

Awesome video! I was guessing 20% capacity left.

[@HeavenonWheels]

Thanks for making this video! I figured those studies are based on 24/7 at 60C, looking forward to the followup! Would love to see a video on keeping it a battery at 70 to 80%, basically debunking those other studies with real world applications.

[@zaberfreedom8224]

Las vegas yeah.... your winter isn't that cold, come to ny, or try alaska.

[@KevIsOffGrid]

Great stuff, love this test great info /real world proof thanks.

[@eumesmo-kd1tr]

really, really a nice battery congrats

[@fincayabisi]

Perfect for Electric Netting Energizers

[@ExodusC]

Incredible. I love to see these data points. One thing I see a lot of conflicting information on is mixing and matching LiFePO4 batteries of different ages (talking for a parallel configuration here). Would love to see a video discussing that. I couldn't even really find definitive answers on the forum. Everyone seems to have an opinion.

[@davidb.5544]

That would make no difference. That applies to lead acid batteries.

[@ExodusC]

​@@davidb.5544That doesn't seem to be the common opinion. In addition, people on the forum were claiming battery manufacturers were stating to not mix LiFePO4 batteries that are more than a month old with the ones. It seems impossible to find good info on this.

[@uselesseater5916]

I did a warranty exchange from renogy. I have 8 of the 48v 50ah batteries that Will broke in a video 2 years ago. One of them had a self discharging cell after 1 year of use. Anyway, when they shipped out the replacement battery they specifically said not to connect it to the other 7 batteries. i told them that this would not work and if this is true you owe me 8 total batteries because I can no longer use it like it was promised to be used. They didnt like that idea, told me to GTFO.. So I have been using the replacement with the old batteries with no problems.. The bms simply says that it is 4% or so higher SOC at the midpoint and lower. @@ExodusC

[@bjorn_moren]

@@ExodusC I'm confused too. I can understand that you shouldn't put two 12 V batteries of different age in series to make a 24 V system. But I don't understand why connecting two 24 V batteries of different age in parallel is a problem. Ok, perhaps it is not optimal if you're a perfectionist, because the 100% SOC voltage might be ever so slightly different for the two, but not a big issue.

[@davidhancock7377]

I have seen one he calls it his Frankenstein battery.. (Off-Grid Garage) he's funny as well😄

[@fauxque5057]

That's crazy. I've made the mistake of visiting Las Vegas in the summer. It's a brutal heat. I'm in Florida and my batteries are out on the back porch. They're under shade and the temperature hits mid 90s in the summer and drop to the mid 80s at night so I doubt I will ever have a problem. I have the discharge cutoff set at 48v but rarely get that low. I normally get through the night at 52.2v in the summer,

[@thetoolmat8632]

I live in myrtle and it can be 90 but feels like is close to 120 due to the humidity, that is the test I want to see is humidity heat as in feels like….then I will be convinced it would be okay to have a bank outside ina shed!

[@robert4027]

AWESOME 👍👍👍

[@MagaMonkeysMovetoRussia]

Great video Will. Thanks for the info.

[@erniewarzyca1267]

Hey will, looks like you installed a gto or mighty mule or Lanier there all the same. I'm a gate guy and I don't care for that operator it has a micro switch in the arm,and the worm drive uses a nylon acme nut,which is sloppy, and the front and back pins are sloppy making the operator need to have a solid post to stop on when closed,same for open or on open when windy will flex and Crack the micro switch board inside the arm. There's a much better alternative. U appreciate all your videos and knowledge you've helped me a lot so I'm trying to reciprocate. Ernie

[@human_brian]

I have one of those RWD LFP Model 3's. In the charging screen it tells you to charge to 100% once a week at the latest. I've had the car for a few months now and it's been rock solid, no issues at all. I live in Florida so I'll never have to worry about cold temp charging but I'm sure it'd be fine in the cold. I did a 3000 mile road trip with it after only putting 500 miles from new, it was fantastic.

[@Ryan-ff2db]

Same here. I live California, which can occasionally get below freezing in the winter but I've had no issues. It preheats the battery before charging if it's cold so you don't really need to worry about that. At its current pace it will have about 10 percent degradation at 100,000 miles. Degradation is supposed to slow down as the battery ages, which I am starting to see but I'll see in a couple years if that 10 percent figure turns out to be accurate.

[@lorneserpa5888]

Nice!

[@PhG1961]

Of course I liked the video! I always do!

[@DivineMoonlight108]

Pls cold temp torture test for us in Canada !

[@RobbieHLM]

Wauw, did not expect that. I keep mine in a temperature controlled room, with a split AC, temp never over 25 celcius. Installed it after switching to lifepo4, but understand that this actually is not necessary for the batteries. Good to know, thank you! Though not necessary, I'll keep that AC running since it also prevents high temperatures in the inverters and SCCs and keep humidity low. Anyway, no need to panic if the AC won't work for a couple of days.

[@lkeil84]

I have a bunch of the Valence u27-12xp batteries on my boat. I put it in storage and left them at 90%. 2 months later I checked them and they were still at 86%. When relaunching the boat in a couple of months, I expect to still see them at 80% after 5 months. The ones that I have are also 12 years old and checked out 110-120 amp hours with just a crude test. I just got 7 more to add to the 6 existing for a great power backup on the boat. I don't quite have enough solar to keep them up when out cruising, but when I go someplace, the engines each have a 140 amp alternator to help them along. With only 6 and lots of rainy overcast days, I could be down to under 20%, but now with double the capacity, I should never drop below 50%. Valence makes a great battery and I finally have enough at $300 each or less to fill my needs. I see many people selling them still used for $500+, but have never paid that for them. The new rating was 138 amps and I love that the BMS is rated 300 amps each for 30 seconds and 150 amps continuous, more than enough with the current 6 to start the big diesels. 13 is going to be awesome this next Bahamas season.

[@user-vu4jx7ne4t]

😮 you gave me a ideal bro

[@honeyhivefarms5739]

So we should keep our Eco Flow Delta Pro charged at 100%?? Thank you for all your great videos.

[@matthewhorwat7540]

For a simple set up like that, with one battery, connected to one device, what do you use for a solar charge controller? One for lead acid batteries since they are so similar in terms of voltages? I'm not taking large setups, just something simple & small like that.

[@Doctorbasss]

Thanks for this test William. High temp and high SOC reduce capacity because of internal resistance become higher meaning tha the LVC will trigger sooner ( V sag ) and so the SOH that you measured was at a C/5 rate. That represent real life use or to be easy on the battery maybe... typically capacity test in spec sheet are measured at C/2 or C/5. I guess that at C/2 it would have been different.. i am curious if the C rate performances have been affected.. cause capacity is one part of the result.. and capacity at various C rate is the rest!

[@Michael-OBrien]

04:44 - Got s friend with one of those Model 3's. The charge to 100% is actually to 80% SoC according to the diagnostic menu. It was down to 79% after 3 months and charging at home.

[@SimonWad]

I absolutely love your videos - your advice is brilliant and I will pay very close attention to them when I build a van - I may even buy your book. But just to say - sure LA is horrible for heat, but leave one of these batteries outside in the North West of England and it'll be doomed.

[@IrenESorius]

Cool,, 👍😎‍‍👍‍‍

[@johnperry5960]

Fantastic real world test, I I thought it would have degraded at least 30%

[@OversampleReality]

I love these kinds of tests! Would love to see some content on a float voltage for LiFePO4 (per cell) at 3 points: 3.40V, 3.50V, 3.65V. Something along those lines. Tends to be how I use my battery bank for backup power, being topped off with solar and would love to know the ideal float for lifetime.

[@junkerzn7312]

Generally speaking the batteries should be floated at 3.35V/cell to 3.375V/cell and no higher. Floating higher will overcharge the cell unnecessarily. The battery will remain at 100% when held at the float voltage after fully charging. Cells will charge to nearly 100% even at 3.40V (at least in warm weather), it just might take some time. So charging to "full" really just means charging to roughly 3.55V/cell (enough to ensure that the battery's internal balancers activate), holding there for 1-2 hours to give the balancers time to work, and then dropping to the float voltage. There is no need to stress the battery by holding the voltage higher. Charging to full does not mean holding it at a high voltage once it gets to full. The wonderful thing about LiFePO4 batteries is that you can relax the voltage after charging and the sucker stays at 100%.

[@wallacegrommet9343]

What the lithium battery world needs desperately is an affordable charger that goes into a zero current/voltage standby

[@OversampleReality]

I agree, "Generally speaking." However actual long term data from a few cell brands would be interesting IMHO in terms of float voltage.@@junkerzn7312

[@HutchinsonJC]

"Would love to see some content on a float voltage for LiFePO4 (per cell) at 3 points: 3.40V, 3.50V, 3.65V." All three of those are too high is my vote.

[@OversampleReality]

​@@HutchinsonJC Okay. Yeah I was going off the top of my head. Quoting myself: "Something along those lines" in terms of float voltage. Not pretending to be an expert here. Looked at my current setup and I'm currently doing two packs at 3.35V (per cell) and they have been happy for the last 2 years. Test cycles (~6 months) show normal degradation (few percent). But to know the ideal sweet spot would be good...

[@user-hx1uj2sm3d]

I would very much like to see LFP in phones and PCs. I don't mind having a half an inch thick phone (would be even more comfortable to use) if the battery lasts forever.

[@andrewt9204]

That's why I use the 85% charge limit in my Samsung phone. It should help. I'm at about 18 months and the battery life seems to be decent still. Although I have noticed using the Ampere app that even at 85% the voltage is at 4.2 volts. 100% is 4.4 so they're really overdriving these batteries to get max screen time. I wish I could have set it to 70% or something.

[@hockeyguy820]

I always assumed that the voltages above 4.2 are because my phone is using LiHV not LiPo.

[@jim87vette]

Well I feel like it would be best if I just left my batteries hooked up to my solar in my rv this winter while stored for a couple months. The panels get decent sun and where I live in Arizona, and it will stay well above freezing.

[@mikechristensen9744]

Another enjoyable and informative video. Thanks! If external heat causes degradation, is it only when in use or charging that it happens or does it happen even when not in use? If only when using it I wonder why there is not an option to have a cutoff sensor for ambient high temps. Regardless, to have only a 4% degradation(you stated it still had 96% power) is remarkable.

[@STB-jh7od]

I'm impressed with the life of this battery.

[@garretlewis4103]

Got a Weiz 50 amp hour battery in our square drop camper. I didn’t think about the BMS being a power leech. It kept running down so I added a battery cut off switch because I thought it was the solar charge controller. I guess time will tell if the BMS is leeching down the power.

[@atatistcheffs]

I suspect that you are very very seldom actually charging it below freezing. Since you're charging it from a solar panel this means it would not charge at night and that's when the temp is most likely to drop sub freezing. Even if you did, the high typical state of charge means any charging you do would still be quite minimal even on a rare sunny, freezing day in Las Vegas. Good to know that heat apparently isn't all that cricial either.

[@StrayanRider]

Damn, I've been remotely turning on the airconditioner to keep my trucks batteries under 80 percent! NO LONGER! Thanks Will.

[@mikef1570]

Destroyed a ruixiu in one winter, it was left on a charge controller over one winter powering a 4g modem and a ip camera. It lasted till the nights got into the -20f with daytime about -5. It was swollen and zero bolts in the spring.

[@Electronzap]

2 1/2 years ago. Damn, time flies by fast these days.

[@WillProwse]

Right haha

[@leeharrison3276]

It's got 18 years left

[@Nemo_IRL]

Test a Tesla module and see how much power you can put in and take out before it self destructs. 😁. Ya might outta go out of town first tho.

[@louwrentius]

Will, please (re)test the capacity of the oldest battery you (still) have, that would be fun.

[@Sylvan_dB]

Wonder if keeping the sun and rain off would help. Maybe a simple tote would keep the heat in and actually make it worse.

[@josephcormier5974]

Thanks will can these batteries be hooked up in series? I'm wanting to set up a small freezer on solar panels and I'm still trying to get a good system cheap thanks for sharing this with us six stars

[@Deborah1988]

This is totally random but when you gonna get the new ecoflow delta pro ultra? 😁 I won’t buy till I see your review!!

[@leslieservantofgod8601]

Could you check out the PowMr MPPT solar charge controller 60Amp I bought one and I think it's really cool

[@andrewt9204]

If you were daily multi-cycling these batteries then I would definitely recommend reducing your depth of discharge. I can't exactly remember the numbers it's been a while since I've read that paper, but something like a 33% D.o.D you could get 12-15,000 equivalent charge cycles (as in charging and discharging three times at 33% D.o.D to equal 1 cycle). That would get you an effective 45,000 cycles!! Now that's a little bit extreme conservation. doing that 3x a day would still get you 40 years. It is likely to calendar age before that especially if it's not a temperature controlled environment. Love this test can't wait to see you do it again in another couple years. Would be cool if you did some more extreme testing with some of your other cells that you don't use anymore. Or from those garbage batteries you just reviewed 😂

[@dyslectische]

I have leave my lipo4 on 40% charge for 2 years brand new. Thanks to corona i con not work on my boat . And yes the winter is cold here . Well i use them on summer 2023 and its just fine with no problems I use solar charge and use lights to fridge (12v) And it work just fine.

[@solentlifeuk]

One of the factors in your favour is the gate its powering will be in regular use ... so the charge level of the cells will fluctuate - your solar will charge it back up etc. This cycling may only be at top end of charge but with LiFePo - this is good enough. If it was LiPo - then that would definitely kill it.

[@GoatZilla]

Depends on the grade of cells they put in them. I've have them drop by more than half in less than a year because they were apparently stuffed with grade f beef

[@spruceyt]

I was surprised and pleased to hear your recommendation on charging to 100% and discharging to 0% for solar batteries. What is your recommendation for EV batteries? Is it really best to only charge to 80%? (If this has already been asked and answered I apologize.)

[@jimdaly5077]

👍👍👍

[@huckfin1100]

Still waiting for someone to do a tear down of the 12v 100ah lithium battery from dhgate, I bought one 2 years ago seems to work pretty well but I would like to know about the internals ! Buy the way when I received the battery it was a black plastic box no writings or name brand

[@lmakombera]

hie kindly review cfe 12v 100ah lithium batteries

[@__WJK__]

Absolutely love real world tests. So, how's the CIGS flex panel holding up on the golf cart, or is that test no longer in play?

[@evilutionltd]

Hey Siri, set an alarm for 2 years.