136 - The Carpet Bombing of Germany begins - WW2 - April 3, 1942

[@WorldWarTwo]

The aspects of the war that weighed more heavily on civilians, things like concentration camps, terror bombings, forced labor, etc., we cover in more depth in our War Against Humanity sub-series twice a month. You can check out that playlist right here: kzbin.info/aero/PLsIk0qF0R1j4cwI-ZuDoBLxVEV3egWKoM If you want to see even more about the war in general, check out our Instagram day by day coverage at: instagram.com/WW2_Day_By_Day/ And please read our rules of conduct before you comment, saves everyone headaches (and loads of time): community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518

[@PhillyPhanVinny]

Man, every week at the end of the episode I get so depressed because I need to wait a whole week for the next episode to come out. If the whole series was outright now I would have already binge watched the whole thing. It is so interesting following the story of WW2 week to week even though I already know what is going to happen and have studied WW2 to such a great extent already in my life through book, documentaries, TV series and films. On the topic of this weeks video though I want to dispute where Indy said that "the British know full well that the bombing will not impact production" . The bombing of Germany and the other Axis powers clearly does impact production (civilian housing bombing included). If you bomb the housing of your enemy they need to rebuild housing for people to live in. That is time taken away that your enemy could be using to do something else to help them win the war. That is the argument in simple terms but in addition to that when the Germans started getting bombed worse and worse Germany actually started to spend more and more of their production on air-power and air-defense. Statistically speaking by the time Germany surrendered they had spent ~2% of their economy on building armored vehicles such as tanks. While at the same time spending around 40% (depending on what you count) of their economy on air-power and air defense (so counting planes and anti-aircraft guns like the 88mm anti-aircraft gun). I heard this on the WW2 podcast by Angus Wallace from his guest on episode 131 Alan Bollard the author of "Economists at War: How a Handful of Economists Helped Win and Lose the World Wars". He pointed out that while German war production continued to go up in many areas throughout the war that the production of Germany and Japan was significantly impacted by the bombing the allies put onto those 2 Axis nations. As stated above Germany for example started to put much more of their production capacity into their air-defense because it they did not improve their air-defense their production in all other areas of war production would be significantly impacted. So as a result Germany had to spend more of their economy producing weaponry to defend their nation that could have otherwise been spent on military equipment that could have helped Germany on the Eastern front of WW2 and thus proving that the allied bombings of the Axis nations clearly did have a impact on the Axis production. Please let me know if you disagree and why. I still love the videos as always and will be continuing my support of your videos until the end of the War (at a minimum).

[@PhillyPhanVinny]

On the topic of this weeks video though I want to dispute where Indy said that "the British know full well that the bombing will not impact production" . The bombing of Germany and the other Axis powers clearly does impact production (civilian housing bombing included). If you bomb the housing of your enemy they need to rebuild housing for people to live in. That is time taken away that your enemy could be using to do something else to help them win the war. That is the argument in simple terms but in addition to that when the Germans started getting bombed worse and worse Germany actually started to spend more and more of their production on air-power and air-defense. Statistically speaking by the time Germany surrendered they had spent ~2% of their economy on building armored vehicles such as tanks. While at the same time spending around 40% (depending on what you count) of their economy on air-power and air defense (so counting planes and anti-aircraft guns like the 88mm anti-aircraft gun). I heard this on the WW2 podcast by Angus Wallace from his guest on episode 131 Alan Bollard the author of "Economists at War: How a Handful of Economists Helped Win and Lose the World Wars". He pointed out that while German war production continued to go up in many areas throughout the war that the production of Germany and Japan was significantly impacted by the bombing the allies put onto those 2 Axis nations. As stated above Germany for example started to put much more of their production capacity into their air-defense because it they did not improve their air-defense their production in all other areas of war production would be significantly impacted. So as a result Germany had to spend more of their economy producing weaponry to defend their nation that could have otherwise been spent on military equipment that could have helped Germany on the Eastern front of WW2 and thus proving that the allied bombings of the Axis nations clearly did have a impact on the Axis production. Please let me know if you disagree and why. I still love the videos as always and will be continuing my support of your videos until the end of the War (at a minimum).

[@QuizmasterLaw]

Please do a special on Midway this summer like you did for Pearl.

[@CatsEyethePsycho]

Your thumbnails are getting better and better.

[@johnhaggart9376]

Especially once The United States Military had come to the conclusion that the VC were living amongst the Citizenry. The People in Vietnam who did not live in the more populated cities, lived in villages much like the American Indians had. In North America, depending upon the climate dictated the types and kinds of housing along with what types and kinds of road and path networks. This held true for village life in both Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos. In North America in what is Today the Northeast and New England, trees had been planted and then warped into a form of arrows. A road sign of sorts. One Tribe to the next used these tree signs. If you are thinking that this form of communication was primitive think again. The United States Army Rangers and US Army Pathfinder courses were born out of tactics that had been developed by North American Indians. The Indians knew that quality over quantity was essential. First of all, Indian Tribes didn't possess quantity. In the case of the first Rangers, just as Today...There are only just so many people who can ( The 82nd Airborne Division was born out of The 82nd Division. The AA or "All American" moniker was derived by having every single race, ethnicity and creed from all walks of life that America had to offer. In 1943 members of The 82nd Division were offered an opportunity to become Paratroopers. Those who declined went to serve under George S. Patton ) do the work of a Paratrooper. A Navy SEAL. An Army Ranger. An Airborne Engineer. A Delta Force Member. A United States Force Recon Marine. A United States Air Force Paramedic Jumper aka Air Force PJs. All serving under The Canopy of The Airborne. In Vietnam, the solution to VC members living amongst the villagers was to set up a new village and destroy the old one. The problem was the village was it's own economy. The relocated villagers became refugees. One minute they are self sufficient and the next they were at the mercy of someone else. The Viet Cong used this to their full advantage in turning the Vietnamese people against The American Soldiers. Using the military to punish civilian populations is evil. Dresden Germany is a great example of a war crime. And I lost Family to The Nazis. On my Mother's side. Both of my Mom's Parents were Jews both being born to Jews. Both born in Pre World War 1 Germany. My Grandmother spoke 7 languages fluently. So before anyone says that "You didn't lose people." Yes I did. People who I should have been able to speak with physically.

[@nkdevde]

It is astonishing how Germany, Italy and Japan each tend to see the other's campaigns as deeply flawed megalomaniac endeavours while being perfectly confident that their own campaign is the odd one out that will actually work.

[@hebl47]

But to be fair to the Germans and Japanese - their grandiose campaigns have at least somewhat succeeded, until they ground to a stand still because of sheer scale of their goals, while Italy struggled every chance they got. I mean they got pushed back into Albania by the Greek! Not to mention their North African comedy.

[@GerLeahy]

@@hebl47 Imagine what it would have done for the Axis if the Italians actually had their shit together? Mediterranean, North Africa, Southern Europe secure, sir.

[@Nevio197]

@@hebl47 it was mainly a German strategic fault, they knew that the iron pact would force Italy to join the war. And they still attacked Poland in 1939 fully aware that at the time Italy was not ready to secure the Mediterranean theater.

[@sam74mumm]

Right, but when you listen to Stillwell, and Tschiang-Kai-Tschek and Churchill and Marshall this seems a common theme on both sides...

[@adamlakeman7240]

"Not ready"...Mussolini's been beating the war drum since he first came into office. How much more time does one need?

[@theguynamedmoney9676]

I adore the fact that the running joke of someone complimenting Indie's ties has actually ran this far.

[@michaeldavis4651]

Come on guys; let's get this comment to 69 likes! 🤣

[@johnrettig1880]

These tie jokes have been running so long that I'm thinking about sending him some new track shoes .

[@hallamhal]

Joke?

[@susannahmyers8828]

His ties are boss.

[@bscal02]

It will run until Berlin

[@GeneralSmitty91]

Italians: We shall prepare a grand invasion of Malta! Hitler: buh bye boys, have fun storming the island! Jodl: You think they'll do it? Hitler: Not a chance

[@Macbrother]

It'll take a miracle. ;)

[@CatsEyethePsycho]

Mein Gott!

[@viscountbp]

Mussolini: We shall Blitzkrieg the shores of Malta! Hitler: You keep using that word, I don't think you know what it means.

[@Paciat]

It will be like a German invasion of Britain, only smaller.

[@jonbaxter2254]

For a tiny island in the middle of the sea, it is historically very hard to invade

[@minuteman4199]

273 ships is 800,000 and a bit tons. The Ever Given, the ship that was stuck in the Suez canal is 265, 000 tons. Today, you would only have to sink three ships to suffer the same loss as they suffered with the loss of 273 ships!!

[@kaiserwilhelmii1827]

Jesus christ

[@jasondouglas6755]

WOW

[@normanwells2755]

So?

[@MrNicoJac]

@@normanwells2755 So now you understand HOW much cargo ships have grown in less than a century..... 🙄

[@daffyduck780]

No you just need 3 canals to have the same loss.

[@stephenconroy5908]

"So let's go through this: you want to pack a ship full of explosives and commandos, sail it right under the noses of the enemy with escort ships, ram it into the dry dock, get off, causes all kinds of havoc, probably get captured if the escort ships go down which was likely as not, and do all of this at night?" "Yes." "Right when do we start?"

[@jonbaxter2254]

Sometimes, cocaine fulled ideas are so dumb they're brilliant.

[@SamAronow]

"Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?"

[@lovablesnowman]

God I love Britain in the war. Just the most ridiculous schemes with essentially an unlimited budget and sometimes they just work out

[@StArShIpEnTeRpRiSe]

Later... Ship not explode. German soldier: Hah you thinked this will be enough? Ship explode. British commando: Well, yes.

[@korbell1089]

What I love is that they used the Campbelltown. I mean the ships we gave the Brits were so bad that they blew them up themselves instead of letting the Germans get credit!

[@sinonkryze3638]

For me I'm really surprised how long the Philippines hold out against the Japanese. Even though other countries are now under the Japanese control. I salute to those that fought in the Philippines for that long.

[@davidsigalow7349]

It validates the strategic decision, made well in advance of the invasion, to retreat to Bataan, which was a good place to fight a defensive campaign until help arrived. MacArthur's biggest error ( along with permitting his air force to be destroyed on the ground) was to fail to stockpile sufficient food, munitions, medical supplies and other necessities to fight a long seige. The Filipino soldiers, though under-equipped, were as tough and formidable fighters as the Japanese, and proved their mettle throughout the war.

[@merdiolu]

Not because they were supermen but US and Phillipine forces fortified Bataan and Corregidor before the war and retreated there as soon as Japanese landed on Luzon. Plus Japanese General Staff gave priorty to invade and capture Dutch East Indies first and diverted all reinforcements there first including Homma's 48th Infantry Division , then wrapping the besieged US Philippine Army in Bataan which was half starvbed out in any case.

[@porksterbob]

@@merdiolu They didn't retreat as soon as the Japanese landed... The original war plan orange would have had the Allied forces retreat, but MacArthur tried to put Allied forces and supplies in forward positions and to contest the landings. (Which didn't work because Japanese troops were hardened combat veterans with years of experience) Allied forces didn't start the retreat to Bataan or even stockpiling food there until 10 days after the Japanese landed.

[@merdiolu]

@@porksterbob OK , my mistake , there was a ten day delay between Japanese landings and retreat to Bataan , did not change the outcome though

[@porksterbob]

@@merdiolu It changed the outcome massively. The 110,000 people in Bataan will hold out to May on half and then quarter rations. Had they been moving food there earlier and had it not had to compete with the movement of retreating troops, they could have stockpiled 3 to 4 times more than they did. That makes Bataan last well into the autumn. It's amazing how long Bataan held given how badly the initial plan was botched. Had it not been botched, Bataan would have held for far longer or forced the Japanese to expend a lot more resources taking it.

[@islandrevenant5746]

I’ve had short talks with members of your Twitter team before, but I have an interesting story for your episode next week. On April 8, 1942 the first ships were torpedoed off of southern Georgia. They were the tankers SS Oklahoma and SS Esson Batton Rouge. They were torpedoed in the middle of the night by U-123 and were so sudden and loud they woke up residents on the barrier islands and Brunswick GA. Noticing the explosion from the air, a local CAP pilot from the Suicide Sandwich Squadron, a nickname for the local Saint Simons Island based squadron, who without radio, couldn’t report it.Improvising with what he had, he flew over a local marina and dropped his wrench near there with a note wrapped around it. A local boat Captain Olaf Olsen, picked up the note and took his vessel out to the wreck of SS Oklahoma, beating the Coast Guard rescue craft in pitch black conditions. The Coast Guard and Olafsen saved all but 22 sailors, and the ships went down in the shallows. Despite this, both were eventually floated and repaired *on the beach* of Saint Simons Island. I know there’s a slim chance this could end up in next week’s episode, but I figured this wild, unreplicatable event deserves to be told.

[@tomjustis7237]

Thanks for sharing this great and little known story! I've read about the CAP pilots contribution to the war effort (some of those little civilian aircraft were actually armed with depth charges to attack as well as report submarines) but I'd never heard of this incident. Kudos to both the CAP pilot and Captain Olsen for their clear thinking actions that night. As another channel would say, this is "history that deserves to be remembered."

[@islandrevenant5746]

@@tomjustis7237 Just by the sheer variables caused by throwing a message on a weight out of your plane next to a seaside marina, I am absolutely convinced this story could never have been replicated without the warning going into the water.

[@aegontargaryen9322]

Thank you for sharing that . I’d never heard of it before , great tale to tell .

[@matthewwicht1541]

My grandfather was a Lt. col in the South Africa army who fought in North Africa, it’s really puts things into perspective to think he live through all of that.

[@merdiolu]

Was he is 1st or 2nd SA Division ?

[@gunman47]

There is a side note for this week. On April 1 1942, 16 B-25B Mitchell modified bombers, along with their crews and maintenance personnel, are loaded onto the carrier *USS Hornet* at Naval Air Station Alameda at San Francisco Bay. They will depart the next day to meet up with Task Force 16 (comprising the carrier USS Enterprise and her escorts). Their destination is unknown, but it seems possible that they could be heading into the direction of the Japanese home islands...

[@PhillyPhanVinny]

Yeah I am surprised that the Doolittle raid has not been brought up yet. Or at least I don't recall it being brought up at any point yet. Maybe it was briefly mentioned and I don't recall.

[@citizenofvenus]

@@PhillyPhanVinny I think he'll bring up the Doolittle Raid in the next few weeks.

[@thebigdrew12]

$10 says something related to the raid will be a thumbnail.

[@Boxmediaphile]

B-25 Mitchells

[@principalityofbelka6310]

Hell yeah. But i'm sure the Japanese are extremely pissed about this attack. I'm sure they'll try to take vengeance by attacking a US held island in sometimes in June.

[@yorick6035]

These episodes are the highlight of my Wednesday and Saturday. Lovely stuff

[@wonderfalg]

Carpet bombing is lovely stuff? My father, aged 9 in 42 in Mannheim, thought slightly different.

[@yorick6035]

@@wonderfalg I am referring to episodes obviously

[@TheSuperhoden]

@@wonderfalg are you stupid?

[@wonderfalg]

@@yorick6035 Obviously you posted this to a vid titled carpet bombing begins. And in general I see the educational content, which has its worth on its own, but war never is lovely stuff. Maybe for keyboard warriors who are satisfied by headshooting in war games. War effected my family hard. My grandmother never wanted TV in her house. She has seen enough in two wars. Not lovely at all.

[@TheSuperhoden]

@@wonderfalg It happened 70+ years ago and its not like youve been through it. If you get insulted that easily you have issues

[@victorianmilitarysociety8270]

I once met Major Bob Montgomery the Royal Engineer in charge of the St Nazaire demolition parties. He told me they practiced on the docks in Cardiff in Wales, explaining to the Dock owners that it was a training exercise to plan how to destroy the docks in case of a German invasion.

[@panqueque445]

The history fan in me can't help but be extremely sad that a whole medieval town got burnt to the ground.

[@janiceduke1205]

@Jonah Whale Following the bombing of the cathedral in 1940, Provost Richard Howard had the words "Father Forgive" inscribed on the wall behind the altar of the ruined building. I have visited both and I am a modern lady, & I liked it.

[@janiceduke1205]

@Jonah Whale Truth

[@RoundBaguette]

@@dave8599 What a clown

[@TheExecutorr]

@@RoundBaguette I'll just give this one the benefit of the doubt and believe he's beeing sarcastic.

[@kostassalerakis1024]

They did rebuild a lot, and Lübeck is still a beautiful city with a beautiful old town. One of Germany's prettiest places for me. The cities that were rebuilt in a "modern" style, those are the ones you have to mourn for. Cologne is the first that comes to mind for me. Absolutely horrible architecture, with only the cathedral as a redeeming element... and it used to be a medieval metropolis. Stuttgart, Chemnitz, the Ruhrgebiet are other places where pretty much nothing is left.

[@msimmermacherful1]

My father and his family are from Lubeck. My grandfather was a Lieutenant who fought in France, Denmark and On the Eastern Front in both Stalingrad and Leningrad being on one of the last planes to retreat out of Stalingrad. His brother was not so lucky as he was a prisoner of the Soviets and marched to death. Cannot imagine his emotions about his family while fighting had to handle almost all of his home city destroyed. Also his father, my great grandfather fought in The Great War in which he published all his memoirs and my father translated everything into a book in which he himself published.

[@WalkerTexasRanger001]

Is the book publicly available to buy somewhere? I would like to read it

[@HistoryOfRevolutions]

"Most people can't understand how others can blow their noses differently than they do" - Ivan Turgenev

[@Valdagast]

So what does Hermann Meyer have to say about the raid on Lübeck? 12:40 Hitler is rocking the Darth Vader outfit.

[@davidwright7193]

I hear Meyer Goring was last seen heading to the bookstore to buy a Baedecker guide to Britain

[@Flurb_Xray]

Meyer, Meier or Maier?

[@mgway4661]

I do give that outfit a 9.5/10 for evil villains though

[@clarkstartrek]

The nickname “Meyer,” Goering awarded to himself when in 1940 he proclaimed to the German people, “If any British planes ever drop bombs on Berlin. You can call me Meyer!” “The RAF will bomb Berlin,” ordered Winston Churchill after this boast from HG. The rest is of course history.

[@Flurb_Xray]

@@clarkstartrek Yes, but wich spelling? Meyer, Meier or Maier? ;-)

[@W1se0ldg33zer]

"In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason." Ernest Hemingway.

[@Ronald98]

why is this so accurate?

[@dazevipr3390]

@@Ronald98 probably because Hemingway saw action on the Italian Front in WW1. Luigi Cadorna be damned

[@TotallyNotRedneckYall]

I feel like Hemmingway could've dropped the "modern" without losing any accuracy.

[@gustavofontes857]

He also saw action in ww2.

[@renataostertag6051]

@@TotallyNotRedneckYall Agree!

[@Blazcowitz1943]

"You know Holt, when I volunteered I couldn't wait for this moment. Now that it's here...." - British Commando aboard HMS Campbeltown, Medal of Honor European Assault.

[@lawrencehebb2909]

Nah. it was Victoria Crosses for those boys.

[@Cybermat47]

@@lawrencehebb2909 _Medal of Honor: European Assault_ is a video game.

[@richardbradley2335]

Quoting made up characters in games is tight !

[@Blazcowitz1943]

richard bradley it was because of that game that many of us first learned about Operation Chariot.

[@richardbradley2335]

@@Blazcowitz1943 I copied the villages in Brothers in Arms for my wargames !!! Yer dont think PC/xbox games as teaching tools!!

[@Its__Good]

You know Indy - If you're ever debating about whether to make these episodes longer i'm sure we would all love that.

[@kiwi_comanche]

Yes.

[@nickgooderham2389]

At 5:00 it was a Catalina long range patrol aircraft of 413 squadron RCAF, piloted by F/L Birchall, DFC, OBE of St. Catharines Ontario that discovered the Japanese fleet. To confirm number of ships, course and speed, Birchall had to close in on the fleet. As he did this several Japanese fighters were launched and the the Catalina was soon under attack. Badly damaged Birchall had to ditch the aircraft in the sea, but before doing so the crew managed to send two complete coded messages to Colombo warning of the approaching fleet. After ditching the aircraft the survivors were strafed multiple times by Japanese fighters killing most of the wounded who had been fitted with life jackets. Those who were captured never revealed that the messages had been sent despite the "usual Japanese treatment".

[@damonwright608]

Thanks for this note. As a Canadian, I had no idea we made a contribution and sacrifice here that likely saved the British fleet from the same fate as the combing fleet in the Battle of the Java Sea (assuming the Kido Butai had remained undetected and attacked WW1 era battleships & escorts with the benefit of surprise).

[@angusmacdonald7187]

My dad sailed the North Atlantic Convoy as his first post during WWII, US Navy. He was, at least one time, posted as Navy detachment on a Liberty ship. He referred to them as "floating concrete", but there was also a hint of admiration in his voice. They were sloppily built, but built fast and built in such numbers that the Germans, for all their attacks, couldn't get them all. Yes, the shipping took huge losses, but they also got a lot of materiel through to Great Britain. When my dad died in 1990, the folks at the Jeremiah O'Brien in San Francisco escorted his ashes out to sea.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for sharing your father's story! We're glad he survived

[@thebigdrew12]

I just joined the TimeGhost army and it's really weird seeing these earlier than Saturday. I suppose I'll get used to seeing quality videos just a bit earlier 🤷‍♂️

[@WorldWarTwo]

Welcome to the army!

[@pnutz_2]

welcome new enlistee!

[@harryjanssens4415]

Welcome to the Timeghost Army, my fellow brother in arms, Andrew! I am sure you will enjoy our community of history loving people very much and, I feel, as I am quite a fresh member myself, being part of the army is mindrefreshing and like slipping into a warm bath 👍😉

[@HankScorpio93]

I recently joined the TimeGhost army too, but I haven't figured out yet how to get the early access to the videos? How does it work?

[@thebigdrew12]

@@HankScorpio93 On smartphones, you can use the patreon app to see them.

[@PontifexAtharva]

Indy, you are really an unbiased commentator. Your last point on moral High ground is amazingly accurate. It's so hard to find someone who can put an unbiased lens on the history but you try your best to do it and in my opinion you succeed in it.

[@adamwsaxe]

There is no "unbiased" view of WWII unless one abandons all moral precepts. The Nazis--and their Japanese allies--fought to enslave most of humankind. The Allies fought to prevent that. *That* is the starting point at which any ethical analysis of WWII must begin.

[@whatthefuck519]

@@adamwsaxe you two are both delusional. Indy is as anti germany as it gets

[@PontifexAtharva]

@@adamwsaxe Then its not really unbiased

[@mohammadbayazid5064]

@@adamwsaxe The Allies fought to prevent that, so that they can enslave most of humankind

[@AnimeOtaku2]

So... I got a Lockheed Martin advert before this, which feels pretty weird.

[@CuboidCheese]

Cookies are crazy these days.

[@minuteman4199]

Are you in the market for a new plane?

[@nothandmade9686]

I work in aviation which is probably why. Doesn't mean I work in procuring though.

[@prompt000]

Hey kids, do you like violence?

[@champagnegascogne9755]

Get your P-38 Lightnings now, and run wild in the jungles of the South Pacific!

[@LotharLive]

"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them." - Arthur 'Bomber' Harris Guess this week is the real start of that.

[@stevekaczynski3793]

A lot of RAF bombers had already been lost over Germany in 1941, but in 1942 the raids - and the losses - were greater.

[@qjnmh]

This is the speech. It was made slightly later (before the 1,000 bomber raids) but it gives a sense of the man... kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqCXlZ2jedZ9iKs

[@TheGaymo]

Can't wait for the Big Week episode coming up, when things really got going.

[@moranii1843]

So the british accept their no better than the Germans? This is onto of the british being far more successful colonizers than the Germans.

[@merdiolu]

Four Victoria Crosses were won during Operation Chariot , St. Nazaire Raid and the main St. Nazaire dry dock and its support facilities , harbour structure etc were so badly damaged it could be repaired and became functional only after 1947 , well after war ended

[@rags417]

The HMS Campeltown had hundreds of tons of explosive hidden in its hull and was set to blow up at mid day on the following day when it was crawling with engineers, technicians and experts, all who died in the explosion - IMO this was probably one of the greatest impacts of the raid.

[@ballagh]

@@rags417 this might have just been a accidental bonus. Giles Milton’s “ministry of ungentlemanly warfare” recounts the delayed explosion as a failure of the fusing.

[@PhillyPhanVinny]

Man, every week at the end of the episode I get so depressed because I need to wait a whole week for the next episode to come out. If the whole series was outright now I would have already binge watched the whole thing. It is so interesting following the story of WW2 week to week even though I already know what is going to happen and have studied WW2 to such a great extent already in my life through book, documentaries, TV series and films. On the topic of this weeks video though I want to dispute where Indy said that "the British know full well that the bombing will not impact production" . The bombing of Germany and the other Axis powers clearly does impact production (civilian housing bombing included). If you bomb the housing of your enemy they need to rebuild housing for people to live in. That is time taken away that your enemy could be using to do something else to help them win the war. That is the argument in simple terms but in addition to that when the Germans started getting bombed worse and worse Germany actually started to spend more and more of their production on air-power and air-defense. Statistically speaking by the time Germany surrendered they had spent ~2% of their economy on building armored vehicles such as tanks. While at the same time spending around 40% (depending on what you count) of their economy on air-power and air defense (so counting planes and anti-aircraft guns like the 88mm anti-aircraft gun). I heard this on the WW2 podcast by Angus Wallace from his guest on episode 131 Alan Bollard the author of "Economists at War: How a Handful of Economists Helped Win and Lose the World Wars". He pointed out that while German war production continued to go up in many areas throughout the war that the production of Germany and Japan was significantly impacted by the bombing the allies put onto those 2 Axis nations. As stated above Germany for example started to put much more of their production capacity into their air-defense because it they did not improve their air-defense their production in all other areas of war production would be significantly impacted. So as a result Germany had to spend more of their economy producing weaponry to defend their nation that could have otherwise been spent on military equipment that could have helped Germany on the Eastern front of WW2 and thus proving that the allied bombings of the Axis nations clearly did have a impact on the Axis production. Please let me know if you disagree and why. I still love the videos as always and will be continuing my support of your videos until the end of the War (at a minimum).

[@bunky8077]

It really puts into perspective the time frame of the whole conflict having the weekly episodes. The Germans invaded Poland in September 2018, the Battle of Britain was 18 months ago. In that time, the world has seen the pandemic take hold and events like the surrender at Stalingrad is 10 months away, D-day won't happen until June 2023 and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and with it VJ day, isn't until August 2024.

[@davidsigalow7349]

What I do, to fill in the gaps, is to re-watch The Great War episodes or Mark Felton's WWII documentaries.

[@greeniedi6287]

Certainly was carpet bombing helping the allies, especially when they targeted factories or industrial areas. And also forcing them into splitting their Air Force towards defending their home country. But the real question is whether bombing civilian homes and city centers was beneficial and morally okay. The argument could be made, that destroying houses would force the Germans to divert ressources into building new homes, but it has also the psychological impact on them, which was reassuring them that the allies were the "bad" guys and inadvertently strengthened their will towards the war effort. It also devalues human life, in a sense that civilians are perfectly viable "military targets", if that means decreasing their enemies economical power. This could lead into a dangerous downward spiral that might begs the question, why keeping POW alive, if POW just end up using your own ressources, that could have been spend towards the war effort, or similar inhuman stuff.

[@mikecopier8843]

Interesting comment and it sounds reasonable. I’m hope an interesting discussion will follow.

[@saint4life09]

@@greeniedi6287 It was worth it. The German people were not going to suddenly "see the light" and go against their dictatorship that was currently engaged in mass genocide. Destroying houses and infrastructure caused losses of workers, increased British morale, caused German resources to have be diverted and, later in the war, caused trouble for German troops with refugees blocking the roads. It's sad but it absolutely was worth it, even if just as a punitive measure to show the people of the British Empire and it's armed forces that they were giving as good as they were getting and even more so. Didn't throw the first punch, but will certainly throw the last and all that.

[@monteharrison1478]

"Moral high ground can often become a really fuzzy concept in modern war."

[@dannyv2468va2]

No such thing. Allied bombs killed just like German ones. German civilians were targeted just like British ones were.

[@shawnr771]

@@dannyv2468va2 Although people attempt to say one side or the other had that moral high ground. More like shifting sand.

[@filipjanovsky7067]

@Jonah Whale The nazis initiated large scale civilian bombing before the start of WW2? Can you elaborate, please? Anyway, there were no "good guys with moral high ground". All sides commited war crimes left and right. In fact, usa is happily commiting war crimes all around the world to this day. The only good guys are the innocent civilians, who just want to live in peace and raise their children. When you start targeting these people, murdering them in cold blood, you are evil no matter how you call yourself. No matter what lame propaganda excuses you come up with. And definitely doesn´t matter who started.

[@filipjanovsky7067]

@Jonah Whale I agree with you too. It is important for the historical record. But that was not the point. What i ment by that "who started" was more like - i will give an example. If i was some mad dictator and tested my new nukes on your city, killing everyone, everything. It would not matter that someone already did the same before me. It would be just as bad as who did it first. If you kill my dog, it doesnt give me any right or moral high ground whatsoever to kill your dog. Opium wars in mid-19th century doesn´t matter when someone talks about Pablo Escobar. The British are not responsible for Pablo just because they were the biggest drug lords in history of mankind pioneering start of drug cartels. That was the point. Not year by year history record. I gave a like, i am subscribed, Indy is doing great job, i love it. I just wanted to type these words so everyone can see that the allies were not some kind of righteous godlike heroes playing by the rules like they are presented here. And i am not convinced that we should justify and glorify every war crime just because it was our side that did them. In a joke sure, but in a documentary it just doesnt feel right.

[@thunderbird1921]

What is a clean war, honestly? Is there really even such a thing?

[@janfelchner1543]

2:18- it's not the port, but the "Normandie" dry dock and its facilities are the targets. There are many ports in France over the Atlantic where Tirpitz can station, but there is only one dry dock where it can be repaired in case of underwater damages.

[@Yora21]

Aw, damn, missed this episode when it came out. Here in Lübeck, the bell of St. Mary's church that fell from the burning bell tower is still embeded in the shattered stone floor where it landed after a 100m drop. Only the northwest quarter of the old city was really flattened (and rebuild ugly). Most other parts were mostly able to be repaired and still looking great today.

[@folumb]

This series is incredible. The more granular the details, the more human all the figures are starting to seem to me. It's a much more relatable war than I imagined but also unrelatable in the amount of courage on display throughout.

[@phlarb6505]

I feel like "Operation Chariot" deserves it's own video. Just from that brief mention, it sounds like an 80's action movie.

[@merdiolu]

they made a movie (based on Opration Chariot but not on St. Nazaire) www.imdb.com/title/tt0062688/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3

[@michaelmorrismorris6113]

@@merdiolu they made two.

[@MrXenon1994]

Jeremy Clarkson hosted a documentary on it. "The Greatest Raid Of All"

[@Raskolnikov70]

That gave me an immediate mental image of Arnie screaming "GET TO DAH BOATS!!!!!" while running away from an exploding warehouse carrying a tommy gun...

[@craftpaint1644]

Mark Felton channel

[@kaj4501]

This is some of the most captivating, educational & professional content (on this platform). Awesome visuals, the amount of detail, the use of (great) quotes and above all the decision to not look away, no matter which side you are on, really sets you guys apart for me.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for your kind words!

[@Dustz92]

I have to give it to Churchill this time; considering how at the time bad their armies were performing against the Germans in North Africa even in favourable conditions, launching an invasion of France head on in 1943 (especially with the Americans, who have still to fight a single battle, as the main force) would have likely ended in a disaster. The North Africa and Italian campaigns, as (comparatively) secondary as they were, allowed their armies to learn how to fight before launching an invasion as risky as Normandy.

[@carllang2594]

Like the 1942 Dieppe raid had already

[@Valdagast]

You don't go to the boss fight immediately.

[@caryblack5985]

Every new army had a learning curve that they had to go through when they entered battle. A good book that explains this and the development of the US Army is Atkinson Army At Dawn.

[@SunBepisMan]

„No enemy bomber can reach the Ruhr. If one reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Göring. You may call me Meyer.“ -Herman Meyer

[@Sam-AZ]

Moral high ground can be fuzzy concept in modern war. ❤️

[@flipthebird1262]

Waka! Waka!

[@seneca983]

Luckily, moral high ground was always clear in ancient war.

[@GarioTheRock]

@@seneca983 The Indians and Southeast Asians would like to have a word with you.

[@seneca983]

@@Sam-AZ On the other hand, indiscriminate looting was more common.

[@Overlord734]

@@Sam-AZ there were carpet decapitations.

[@jamesevans1897]

Rommels whole saga in Africa is literally the ultimate foreshadowing for the entire Axis powers

[@erikgranqvist3680]

You should make a special on the underground shelters in Malta. They are extremley impressive, regarding it was people who hacked htem out of the bedrock.

[@yoursemexpert]

Indy, I just want to say that I am a big, big fan of you guys' work listening to both WW1 and WW2 retellings while I work. I know this isn't a lot but I am actually quite grateful you are pronouncing both Filipinos and Bataan correctly. I will be arranging a trip to Correigidor in Bataan, Baguio City and Leyte Gulf on the first quarter or 2023 just to see these memorial sites. Also, I am born and raised in Manila. Would definitely do a walking tour of the historic city of the country as well.

[@McSpanklez]

I just would like to say you guys cover this war to a great extent! I was a fan of the Great War series and I'm an even bigger fan of this series.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you, King Kai

[@McSpanklez]

@@WorldWarTwo Your welcome. Also here's enough energy for a spirit bomb!

[@MrWWIIBuff]

Love the "Pissing off Hitler" measures.

[@jonthrelkeld2910]

Indy, I'd like to see you do a series on the Battle of the Atlantic.

[@CatnicImprover]

Some really interesting discussions of Malta again! I think it's easy to forget how politics within an alliance can interfere with the alliance as a whole being able to act in its own best interests. I saw a lecture by Robert Citino that described the axis as a prime example of how coalition warfare should not be conducted and I had assumed it was about how the alliance between Germany and Japan only serving to get each of them into more trouble, but obviously it is far deeper than that.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Jeremy Clarkson has a documentary called The Greatest Raid of All, about the Saint Nazaire Raid it's on youtube if you want to check it out.

[@ISawABear]

There's also a shorty but well paced animated map from Baz Battles

[@alchemist6819]

Interesting username and pfp

[@firingallcylinders2949]

I hear Jeremy Clarkson I click

[@BBQDad463]

I've seen Clarkson's documentary. It is phenomenally well done. I strongly recommend it.

[@lasentinal]

Another great presentation. It is especially, thank you for putting the number of the episode at the beginning of the title.

[@clydecessna737]

According to Barbara Tuchman, Stillwell hated the British despised Mountbatten and loathed Chiang Kai-shek who he called "The Peanut" - The wrong man for the job.

[@stevekaczynski3793]

Yet he had some grasp of Chinese, not an especially widespread skill of Americans at the time. Anti-British feeling was not unusual among leading American military personnel - Admiral King had similar inclinations, as did Patton and I believe even MacArthur (ironically, all these people came from WASP backgrounds so had British ancestors).

[@qjnmh]

As an aside, I often critique certain statements that Indy makes. But that should not distract from the fact that, taken as a whole, this is a truly awesome series and a genuine contribution to widening knowledge on WW2. The debate of individual points should not obscure the fact that to cover such a wide area and be mostly right, most of the time, is simply monumental.

[@ralphbernhard1757]

On another topic all together. In the other thread in was about "the Big Picture", and "outcome for GB/Empire". Here, in case you're interested, we can discuss the flawed *"..but how much stronger would Germany have been?'-rhetoric/justification* for "area bombing/carpet bombing/doctrines of killing civilians as a policy. *Note, that it is not a rhetorical question.* The objective of the rhetorical question is to place an opposing view under pressure, by asking a question to which would reveal a weakness in the opposing side's logic. In this case, it not a successful example of rhetoric, because the answer is simple. German production was limited by resources. No (or very little) Bauxite = no (or very little) aluminum No Nickel = no armor No Chrome = no high grade steel No tungsten = no tools No rubber = no tires for trucks No oil = no mobile warfare. ...and so on. Sure, one can "tweak reality" a little, for example by turning coal into oil, etc. But one cannot outsmart a *geographical disadvantage* for long... *German production would not have been significantly higher, because they did not have the raw materials, or access to those places in the world which had these resources.* Anybody who states that 'German production would have been higher', should also follow it up with a full assessment of where the extra raw materials for a higher production would have come from, and more importantly, the oil to fuel the weapons of warfare (tanks, planes, artillery tractors, etc.) Evidence for the above? WW1. There was no strategic bombing, and the Allies outproduced Germany/Austria-Hungary easily. German production came to a standstill around early 1945, when advancing ground forces cut off the last remaining connections to the sources of raw materials.

[@squillz8310]

I somehow forget that every Saturday you guys upload these. So it's a very pleasant surprise to see this come up in my sub feed. Wonderful watch as always!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thanks!

[@adamwsaxe]

Who held the moral high-ground in WWII, Indy, was never in doubt.

[@multialarmclock]

I didn't realize how much the chinese military committed to the burma campaign. I had always assumed it was primarily Indian/Commonwealth forces. Very pleased to have learned the truth. Great Stuff!

[@firingallcylinders2949]

I'm learning alot about the Chinese. For some reason they're lost on most WW2 history.

[@porksterbob]

The Burma Expeditionary Force was Three Chinese Armies (The Fifth, Sixth, and Sixty Sixth) and had 70-95,000 men. This was almost double the commonwealth forces in theater.

[@lycaonpictus9662]

@@firingallcylinders2949 The Sino-Japanese War unfortunately tends to get overshadowed in the West by the Pacific War, because the latter involved the U.S., U.K, and Commonwealth Nations and because (to be fair) it was also the "front" where the most decisive blows were struck against Japan. It also doesn't help that following the Second World War the Communists gained power in China following a civil war and then went about downplaying the role their Nationalist foes had played in resisting the Japanese, while the Cold War meant Communist contributions weren't likely to get much recognition in the West either. One of the reasons why this channel is great is that you get a more complete picture of what is happening, even on the fronts somewhat neglected by most popular histories.

[@qjnmh]

Burma was the key way the Chinese got their supplies. It was critical to their being able to fight the Japanese effectively

[@peterdavy6110]

"So this is the Eastern Fleet. Well, there's many a good tune played on an old fiddle." Admiral Somerville's first signal to the Eastern Fleet. (His granddaughter Julia's the TV newsreader).

[@QuizmasterLaw]

I studied the Indian Ocean raid in depth. Briefly, the British aircraft were not inferior to the Japanese but terribly outnumbered about 4 to 1. Worse, Hermes only carried bombers, which while quite good on the attack or as scouts are useless for combat air patrol. Britain's only chance was to try to split the Japanese into 2 parts and then attach each in turn -- which the Japanese, correctly, refused to do. So... no real way the British could win this one, but not due to aircraft or pilot quality.

[@mjbull5156]

They were outnumbered 2 to 1 in flight decks against Kido Butai, and the British design philosophy for carriers meant that those ships had smaller plane complements than the IJN fleet carriers. The RN Indian Ocean fleet was terribly outnumbered where it mattered.

[@901Sherman]

Considering the types of fighters used at the time like Fulmars and Sea Hurricanse, yeah, I'd argue the Zeros were far superior

[@Daniel-kq4bx]

7:27 Awesome what a reflective quote this is of Stillwell. Really points a different picture

[@tommy-er6hh]

I have thought that Gen. Stillwell reminds me a bit of Civil War Gen. McClellan - great at training and organization, but not so hot at battle decisions.

[@porksterbob]

It was the only reflective thing he said or did.

[@Daniel-kq4bx]

@@porksterbob Yeah, i think someone that better understands the Chinese would be a better choice. Someone that could have the same effect on the Chinese like McArthur on the Phillipinos

[@angelostriandos6659]

No one already believes the Italians could pull out something on their own in that time of the war !

[@Raskolnikov70]

Or ever, I suppose. I mean, why didn't anyone on the Axis side bring this up a bit earlier, say 1940 or so when it could have done some good?

[@mikhailiagacesa3406]

@@Raskolnikov70 The Italians had Plan DD/42, which they came up with in the late '30s. Mussolini thought there would be a white peace in mid-1940, so didn't want to complicate negotiations with the British(maybe he could get Malta for free). When there wasn't, he went for Greece. There were other considerations, like lack of fuel oil and interservice rivalry.

[@stevekaczynski3793]

Italian incapacity was sometimes exaggerated. For example an attempt to kill Rommel (ill-conceived - he was not even in the building that was raided and may never have used it) seems to have been frustrated by Italian troops, at least in part, but the British preferred to say it was Germans.

[@GarioTheRock]

I was listening to French and Russian pop the last 8 hours while working on my portfolio, this was quite the transition. Fantastic video, excellent work as always.

[@olbillthecook5547]

In modern war, the"moral high ground"is usually just something else you can put a machine gun on.

[@henrykissinger3151]

hey sowed the wind,” he warned, “and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.” - Bomber Harris

[@nickdanger3802]

If you read or watch the entire speech you will find the whirlwind would be delivered by the United States.

[@11Kralle]

In "The world at war (Bombing Germany)" it is stated by 'Bomber-Harris' himself, that Lübeck and Rostock were chosen, because they were coastal cities within the right reach. Cities at the coast-line could be better spotted at night from british bombers at that point in time.

[@kmrose]

The "moral high ground" isn't a fuzzy concept in just modern warfare, but in all warfare stretching back into human history. I've noticed it when I'm listening or reading about different time periods or cultures. The moral high ground being a fuzzy and murky concept also applies outside of warfare too. It's an universal human concept. That's the only thing bugging me. Thank you for keeping this story alive.

[@AQuietNight]

When the Mongolians came to your town, you knew it was going to be a very bad day.

[@joshjwillway1545]

'The Japanese dropped so many bombs they lit the forest on fire USA "write that down! write that down!"

[@benedictdonald4338]

Lol. Awesome.

[@thebrazilianhistorian6530]

Arthur "Historical sight? Set it alight" Harris Arthur "Aerial cremation of the Arian nation" Harris

[@annoyingbstard9407]

Best stick to commenting in your own language....

[@gunman47]

I see what you did there Indy & team. 👍 *A thumbs up for the thumb-nail!* 👍

[@QuizmasterLaw]

Spoiler: I lived in Bremen (which I love) for years. Suffice it to say alles Neubau. Alles. There's about a half dozen prewar large structures and the entire down town is new construction. The German coastal cities fared worst: easy high priority targets.

[@johan8969]

The destruction of Europe during that war cant be understated. Budapest is doing their best to restore the old buildings, but they are working from pre war photo's and a lot of the time you can see that they are missing small details to cut costs. Breaks the heart to see.

[@gunman47]

On March 31 1942, the Japanese land on Christmas Island without any opposition. This is due to a mutiny on March 11 1942 by soldiers of the British Indian Army stationed on Christmas Island, which was part of the Straits Settlements at the time. They kill their British officer and the enlisted men and lock up the remaining European civilian inhabitants.

[@stevekaczynski3793]

The reliability of British Indian soldiers was often questionable in WW2, with quite a few outright defections. Many were attempts to escape from lousy POW conditions but that would not apply to something like Christmas Island. The impetus towards Indian independence no doubt gathered pace in part as a result of these defections.

[@coateskylie]

My grandfather was on the HMS warspite in the Indian Ocean he was transferred from the Canadian Navy in 1941 to the British Navy he will reach Lieutenant Commander by the end of the war and then spent six years decommissioning the Canadian Navy boats

[@vedranv6579]

Fun to watch the weekly episode after following your daily posts on Instagram, and go "hey, I know that!" :D

[@harryjanssens4415]

Again a great episode! Malta is in the picture, one of my OOTF questions (operation Mercury or Hercules first) I am a proud specialist in this great Army of History and Humanity 🙏🤗

[@pnutz_2]

"The warship belonged to a series of U.S.-built "flush-deckers". In 1940, she was transferred to the U.K. Along with her extremely powerful torpedo armament, Campbeltown was also noted for uncommonly high speed for that era. The distinctive placement of her torpedo tubes allowed her to quickly concentrate torpedo fire on either side." -World of warships, description of a ship whose first action after purchase was to be sailed over to the UK, and second action was to have a fuckload of explosives concreted to the underside and rammed into the drydock at St Nazaire

[@tams805]

She did more harm to Axis war efforts than she ever could have in service though.

[@nickdanger3802]

@@tams805 12 submarines sunk or captured (including U110) solo and shared by ships acquired in the Destroyers for Bases Agreement. www.uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=24

[@tommyk.208]

I hope the raid on St.Nazaire gets its own special episode

[@rabihrac]

Gigantic plans, whether realistic or not are being made this week here & there, however, only gigantic destructions on the civilians sides are achieved! What an insightful analysis Indy & crew. Cheers!

[@docvideo93]

As March rolls into April, you could see on the map, a large concentration of Allied ships are sunk of the coast of North Carolina in a region called the Outer Banks or Cape Hatteras with nearly a ship a day being attacked by U-Boats. Known as the Graveyard of the Atlantic before the war, the area receives a new moniker, Torpedo Alley.

[@caryblack5985]

Sad that it took so long for the US to start convoying ships and order a blackout along the seacoast.

[@tommy-er6hh]

@@caryblack5985 The state & city politicians were against a blackout on the coast....and Roosevelt caved.

[@theoneduckson2312]

Glad you two are understanding each other this week. The Pacific theater can be confusing!

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

That raid on Saint Nazaire was featured in the first missions of a Medal of Honor

[@michaelmorrismorris6113]

European Assault

[@lloydfisher1548]

Question: Indie are you one of those people who hang up the phone without saying goodbye 😂 Love the show

[@logiconabstractions6596]

" Defeat largely due to lack of experience and equipment". This somewhat sounds like an euphemism for "not being as good an army as the other army"

[@TheSanityInspector]

One interesting side note about the St. Nazaire raid is that the Germans gave the slain commandos a military funeral, with the survivors in attendance. Apparently they were impressed by the dash of the commandos in a clean, soldierly battle, and felt they deserved an honorable recognition. This was a martial courtesy that did not last, as Hitler later ordered all commandos to be killed upon capture, no exceptions.

[@caryblack5985]

The commando order en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando_Order

[@nickdanger3802]

HMS Cambeltown was acquired in the Destroyers for Bases Agreement, 2 September 1940.

[@nickdanger3802]

@Jonah Whale U tub has been deleting about half of my comments, seemingly at random, so I will not be including any links for now. The Anglo-American Loan of 1945 was paid off in December 2006. The USA and Canada loaned to Britain almost 5 Billion 1945 USD at 2 per cent for 50 years so Attlee could piss it away on his election promises. The USA loaned another 586 Million for the balance of Lend Lease. Not much of a return on the almost 33 Billion Britain received. Under the Marshal Plan (ERP) Britain received 2.7 Billion to rebuild, West Germany received 1.7 Billion. see BBC Wasting Marshal Aid

[@nickdanger3802]

Lord McIntosh of Haringey Under a 1945 agreement, the United States Government lent the United Kingdom a total of $4,336 million (around £1,075 million at 1945 exchange rates) in war loans. These loans were taken out under two facilities: (i) a line of credit of $3,750 million (around £930 million at 1945 exchange rates); and (ii) a lend-lease loan facility of $586 million (around £145 million at 1945 exchange rates), which represented the settlement with the United States for lend-lease and reciprocal aid and for the final settlement of the Financial claims of each government against the other arising out of the conduct of the Second World War. api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/written-answers/2002/may/27/united-states-war-loans-to-uk

[@nickdanger3802]

"As he pointed out, the entire British war effort, including all her overseas military commitments, had only been made possible by American subsidies under the Lend-Lease programme. If the Americans stopped Lend-Lease, Britain would face a 'financial Dunkirk' - his words - unless Washington could be touched for a loan of $5 billion." Keynes www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

[@nickdanger3802]

At 2.43 After ten months the RN had 74 operational destroyers left out of 180. World War Two Will Britain Remain?! - WW2 - June 8 1940

[@nickdanger3802]

@Jonah Whale If Britain had not declared war on Germany in 1914 and 1939, Britain would not have needed the USA.

[@MoronicAcid1]

Churchill: "It's over Hitler. I have the high ground." Hitler: "You underestimate my power." Churchill: "Don't try it." Hitler: *bombs London causing Churchill to retro-causally retaliate*

[@Vortyrion]

I really respect the impartial look you give to everybody involved in those events.

[@shawnr771]

Yes it is very refreshing to hear history without a spin to one side is better than the other.

[@brendankelly7671]

You guys should do a special on the industrial output/economics/resource limitations behind the major players.

[@podemosurss8316]

13:18 Jodl: My Failüre, I object to landing in Malta!

[@davidsigalow7349]

Fegelein!

[@PumaTwoU]

Adopting the Eisenhower plan at this point of the war is a precursor to what his status will be as Commander of SHAEF and Overlord. Ike was a good choice- as he could balance the various political issues without creating havoc among Allies. His selection was a genius move.

[@tams805]

It still boggles my mind how inefficient bombing in WWII was. So many resources were expended on it, yet while noteworthy damage was done it still wasn't great. I think the success Germany had in Spain got to everyone's heads a bit.

[@caryblack5985]

It was quite successful in 1944-45 but not before. I am sure it will be discussed when that period comes up.

[@lovablesnowman]

The Allies didny exactly have any other choice. They had to hit back. And they did

[@darthbroda]

the damage was great in the sense that it wiped out the 1000 year old German cultural heritage

[@lovablesnowman]

@@darthbroda start shit, get hit as the old saying goes

[@tams805]

@@darthbroda The Nazis destroyed some rather old and lovely Spanish and British heritage too, so errrr, and?

[@mkdes40]

Indy looks really nice in this.

[@igorscot4971]

Will you be covering the British Operation Vegetarian? Although planned, was never set in motion.

[@naja2270]

Yeah, my gran grew up in the hills over looking Scarborough during the war, she told me of the night she awoke to the sounds of bombs dropping in the distance and seeing the horizon seemingly burn as the town did. She made no bones about it, the carpet bombing of Germany was revenge, which in of itself was justification enough. "They started it, we finished it". Hard to argue with, especially considering this was the population that had voted Hitler into power and cheered as his armies cut bloody swathes across Europe. I don't think there were many people in the UK at that time being overly concerned with the innocence of German civilians when so many of their own had been killed in their beds.

[@jkcarroll]

I *love* the sound his phone makes when he hangs up, and would love to get that as a tone on my smartphone!

[@ajc-ff5cm]

The British firebombed Germany, this enraged Hitler who failed to punish them severely.

[@RamonesFan201]

its astounding to consider the odds Rommel was up against with barely any support. And i love the atmosphere of the Music in the most recent episodes. guess it becomes more grim as the weeks go on...

[@merdiolu]

Operation Hercules or C3 , invasion of Malta was considered as a stillborn child by Hitler and OKW and German Chiefs of High Staff even before it was proposed. At this stage of war in 1942 , heavy units of Italian Navy that were supposed to stage the invasion had no more fuel other than for brief sorties once or twice and Germans had no willingness to share fuel from Roumania with Italians anymore especially considering their big push towards Caucaus , Operation Blue was approaching. Airborne invasion was also considered too risky since heavy German paratrooper casaulties suffered in invasion of Crete previous year in 1941 Hitler was against any more large scale airborne operations (and unlike Crete which had been way more larger and therefore harder to defend in wake of weak air defences and extent of sea logistics , Malta was much more smaller , had no proper airborne landing locations for Axis like in Crete , its airfields were extremely well defended by British (unlike Crete) and during 1940-1942 it was reinforced and fortified by British who could concentrated defences in one location unlike Crete where their already weakened and demoralised defenders in 1941 after defeat in Greek Campaign were distributed here and there all over Crete) and Malta unlike Crete was full of anti aircraft defences and RAF fighters. But as Indy pointed out , it was also distrust and lack of faith by Hitler and German military establishment against Italians that crippled invasion of Malta in first place. When German paratrooper General Kurt Student reported for preperations of invasion of Malta to Hitler in Berlin during April 1942 , Hitler irritated that this subject opened up again retorted back to Student "Even if you can capture Malta with your airborne forces and Italian Navy , what will happen afterwards then ? Let me tell you what will happen ! British Navy in Alexandria will sail away to take it back. British Navy in Gibraltar will do the same. Italian Navy will run away as usual (that is crucial and shows how little Hitler thinks of Italians as allies at this point) And you will be isolated with a handful paratroopers of yours in Malta !" When Student tried to counter that Hitler dismissed him , forbade any mention of Operation Hercules anymore and ordered Student to remain in Berlin not to return to Rome. Last stroke of death to Operation Hercules was dealt by Rommel himself. After winning Battle of Gazala against all odds and capturing Tobruk in June 1942 , he became overoptimistic and began making plans and imposing plans (even to his superiors like German Mediterranean Theater Commander Kesselring) to overreach his Panzer Army to march on Nile Valley and Suez Channel against all common sense , to compansate the resulting fall in logistics , he overrode invasion of Malta , cancelled it for good by going behind Kesselring's back and appealing directly to Hitler and Mussolini to let his victorious Panzer Army to march to Egypt and to do that confiscate all logistical supllies and Axis air power reserved for invasion of Malta. He got his permission from both dictators to do that in June 1942 and invasion of Malta was shelved for good.

[@benmurkison9591]

Hey guys! I am a big fan! I don’t know if you guys will read this, but I’ve been watching since year 2 of the Great War series! I’m a huge fan! I’m unfortunately an unemployed college student so I can’t really afford to donate to your patreon or anything, but I love all these videos! Can’t wait to see more of em!

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for your kind words Ben, we are still grateful for your support nonetheless!

[@gordybing1727]

Hi All, It is early, suggested reading, "Tail-End Charlies, The Last Battles of the Bomber War, 1944-1945" by John Nichol and Tony Rennell. Thanks for your time, take care.

[@stevekaczynski3793]

I read it. It is quite good.

[@tablet_user1940]

After the bombing of Coventry in November 1940, my grandparents told me that there was a lot of anger about the war. Apparently the government where quite worried at the time. As the city is quite small in area with a high population density the raid caused a lot of damage even though it was quite small in comparison to some of the London raids. Luckily they missed most of the factories and most of the shelters where not hit so the death toll was quite low (around 570). We're still finding bombs now if any work is done in the city centre. So I would say that it is not totally correct that it doesn't affect the civilian population, in the immediate aftermath it most definitely does.

[@flipthebird1262]

Yes, probably propaganda aimed at keeping those upper lips as stiff as possible.

[@leonardopsantos]

I've just finished reading Inferno: The Fiery Destruction of Hamburg, 1943 by Keith Lowe. May I suggest a special episode about the bombing of Hamburg in the summer of 1943? I think it touches to some core issues that could be addressed in the War Against Humanity specials, such as what are legitimate targets in a total war? Is specifically targeting civilian infrastructure a war crime or a legitimate war strategy? What were the effects of the bombings in German morale? How these were viewed then and how are they viewed now? Awsome channel by the way!!

[@brianjonker510]

@Suebian Germany used it first over London

[@johnrettig1880]

These Tie jokes have been running for so long . That I'm thinking about sending him some new track shoes .

[@cobbler9113]

For some reason, Harris reminds me quite a lot of Hotzendorf. Both seem to be incapable of altering their plan and will consistently continue with it, even though the evidence shows it's not working anywhere near as well (if at all) as intended.

[@merdiolu]

I think he is more like Douglas Haig , treating his bomber crews same way Haig treated and expanded his trained manpower in trench warfare , driving them against enemy defenses reinforced with defensive firepower

[@kellyshistory306]

@@merdiolu I'd argue these notions are incorrect. Harris was extremely concerned with crew casualties among his bomber crew. The RAF required Bomber Crews to complete a 30 mission tour, followed by a six month rest, and a 20 mission tour. Harris argued throughout the war to abolish the 20 mission second tour due to the high crew losses that made even surviving the first 30 mission tour very low, despite the fact second tour men were an important source of experienced aircrew for his force. He also almost always incorporated suggestions from his attached Operational Research Group (composed of scientists and statisticians) that sought to reduce losses and improve performance. Harris was extremely angry with the higher loss rates of Halifax bombers in action, resulting in him pushing the Government to abandon the type in favour of the superior Lancaster, even at the expense of reducing his bomber forces size. He also basically bypassed the military procurement system in order to get better armament on his bombers, as officially designed turrets with .50 cal guns were developed very slowly. The only .50 cal armed defensive turret on RAF bombers to see any real service during WWII (the Rose Turret) was due to Harris' efforts. Harris also fought for the expanding of electronic warfare countermeasures against German radar defenses, even if it risked compromising the UKs own radar defenses. He was pushing to use WINDOW (chaff) back in 1942 for example. Harris was wedded to the idea of area bombing as a war winning strategy, and was quite stubborn on that front so much as that he had to be ordered to attack other targets like Oil and Transportation targets later in the war. However, he was generally quite willing to adopt strategies suggested by his subordinates and the Operatinal Research scientists to reduce losses and increase the performance of his force. Tactics like the Bomber Stream, Master Bomber, OBOE equipped mosquitos, electronic warfare and such were not his idea's, but ideas proposed by others that he readily adopted. He had his share of failures on this front, he was originally against the Pathfinder force being developed, but generally he was quite flexible in adopting new ideas. He was no Hotzendorf for sure. You can find the RAF night bombing reports on www.lancasterbombers.net/night-raid-reports/ and if you read through them, you will see constant tweaking and trials of new tactics and strategies by bomber command in order to get an edge. The idea Harris or the RAF brass was "incapable of altering their plan" is hard to support in light of the constant altering of plans from raid to raid that is evident there.

[@MrKakibuy]

@@kellyshistory306 They said in a different video that a survey done by the British showed that for most people, losing a home was worse than losing a family member. So strategic bombing has a strong rationale to it, but unfortunately civilian casulties are always part of it.

[@emisat8970]

@@merdiolu To be fair to Haig, he had essentially no other options but forward and when new ones presented themselves (such as the first tanks) he always availed himself of them. The Somme gets thrown in as proof of Haig's butchery when the fact of the matter was he had to attack immediately with little planning in order to relieve some of the pressure on Petain at Verdun. Coalition warfare is often dirty business. The French themselves quite often attacked before they were ready to try and relieve the pressure on the Russians out in the East.

[@kellyshistory306]

@John Milton You're thinking of the Firestorm in Hamburg in July 1943. That is where Speer said that several more raids like that would cost them the war. Unfortunately, firestorms were matters of "luck" to create, so only a handful occurred during the war and never close enough together to have the effect Speer feared. As for Area Bombing, it was very inefficient in what it did, despite the impressive visual damage. The post war bombing reports make it pretty clear it wasn't what was hoped for at the time. It was better than not bombing, which was really the alternative. The best things that can be said about the RAFs night campaign was the resources the Germans had to divert from other theaters of war to counter it, and the expansion of Bomber Command and its electronic warfare and navigational suite that turned it into a supremely devastating precision force in 1944/45. Unfortunately, most people have forgotten the dominant role played by Bomber Command against French rail network prior to the D-day invasion, the raid on the German oil industry (in combination with the USAAF), the destruction of the German rail network which destroyed German industrial production, ground support for troops, and the crippling of the German V-weapon systems.

[@Hendricus56]

1:15 80%? As far as I know, only about 20% on the island where the old center is, were destroyed. The South and West where mostly destroyed. North and East where the St. Aegidien and St. Jakobi churches are, survived mostly, including those 2. And some personal information: The hospital where I was born is located right in the section where most stuff got destroyed. So Lübeck is something I know a lot of because of personal connection

[@jameshamilton4327]

The British knew exactly the effects of area bombing an industrial town, the Luftwaffe spent the winter of 40/41 showing them the effects and how best to do it. That's how you reap the whirlwind.

[@dereksendrak]

I thought Indy was done with this Channel?!? Omg I LOVE this guy!!!!

[@cobalt2672]

The idea of "strategic" or terror bombing, even in the face of direct evidence it doesn't work, is just saddening. That petty revenge trumps attempting to gain material war advantage (even if targeted bombing is inaccurate, surely it's better to TRY to hit something of military value rather than indiscriminately bombing civilians?)