161 - Sanding Efficiency

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Sanding is one of those tasks that nobody enjoys. So in order to get the best results with the least amount of effort, we need to consider the things that have the most dramatic effect on our sanding efficiency.
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[@SE45CX]

Just apart from the woodworking thing I would like to praise you for your excellent communication. The loudness, speed, tone, the logical use of the language; you are having these things totally right. It is a real pleasure to listen to you. Thanks a lot. Keep going.

[@godu1111]

Dear WoodWhiperer, I love seeing a complete session just about sandpaper. That`s the definition of a pro to me. thanks and plz keep it up !

[@TheEssexSpurs]

your narration is great.I wasn't even looking for a lengthy sandpaper video but you draw people in by your easy style.

[@alarikgreenland]

This dude is an amzing speaker.

[@jayceterry3691]

literally the reason i always come back to these videos💯

[@BMOORE344]

Thank you Mark, you don't just tell us what to do, you let us know why we should do it.

[@woodwhisperer]

Well there probably isn't any way to fill the holes so you'll never notice them. But you can do a few things to minimize the effect. A good quality filler like Timbermate can work wonders. Also think about using some sawdust mixed with glue. For the scratches, I'd try to steam them out. Use a wet wash cloth and an iron to steam the damaged sections and hopefully they'll puff up. You can then sand the surface and procedd with the finish.

[@larchejacquesclarel9451]

i always learn a lot from you. Thats why I only come when the need arise to get info on something basic. Experience of elders sure make the difference. Thanks Marc. Schools need teachers like you :)

[@smfield]

Another great job Marc. The problems you expressed in the video with sanding is the reason why I try to avoid it. As much as possible I use plans and cabinet scrapers.

[@Boomers_Bud]

Your video on this topic is definitely one of the best I have come across. Very informative and very well presented. Thank you. Derek

[@southernhen]

Hands down the best information about sanding I’ve ever come across! Wonderful job explaining the importance of every step of sanding.

[@lorrieivins3699]

He is very educating which I really appreciate. In fact I listened 2xs and I will come back because it really is a chunk of info. Thank you Mr. Wood Whisperer

[@woodwhisperer]

I really like it. Paper seems to last a real long time and cuts well throughout its life.

[@stevekriens7770]

Very helpful Marc, thanks. I understand now why I have had many problems. Your a great teacher.

[@woodwhisperer]

@tagi3d they actually sell rubber blocks that you can rub up against the paper while the sander is running. They can really help clean things up. But if its really caked on, there isn't much you can do about it.

[@DonKrasniak]

What an excellent overview of sanding efficiency. A must watch for anyone finishing/refinishing wood (and other materials)! I didn't realize there were so many sanding pad options and I hadn't considered how much dust extraction helps efficiency - I've always been frustrated by fine dust in my projects, but I guess it can hang suspended in the air for hours!

[@robbrown6667]

Mark, Love you and your Chanel! Keep up the good work! We all are learning from you!

[@Docdaugh]

Got so much out of this! Just finished a blanket chest and wasn't completely satisfied with my finish...now I know why! Many thanks!

[@woodwhisperer]

Personally, I'm a fan of the ETS150. Rotex sanders are great, but for what I do, the ETS is all I need. As for sandpaper, I think you could stock up on 80, 120, 180, and 220 and you'd be good to go for wood sanding.

[@woodwhisperer]

I find the best way to handle this is to use a sanding block instead of a power sander. The end grain of the peg will always present a problem for the soft pad of the sander. So if you use a block of wood with sandpaper on it, it will knock down the high spot and flush it to the surface. You can then resume using your power sander once level.

[@woodwhisperer]

@Bojanawwr I don't really use a belt sander in my work. Its a very aggressive sander and can be tricky to control.

[@woodwhisperer]

That is a Festool ETS sander. One of the best on the market but a little expensive. I have had luck with sanders from DeWalt and Rigid in the past as well.

[@woodwhisperer]

@FitzgeraldFiles Thanks! One of the videos in the Gadget Station series had a review of hinges. Can't recall the episode though. But there really is no "best" per se. So many varieties for so many different applications.

[@Larenzoid]

Good video, Marc. You're right...sanding is the one thing that you have to get right in order to get a decent finish. It's also one thing I struggle with regularly, especially in dealing with the dust. I have an air cleaner running all the time but everything still ends up with a layer of dust on it that I have to vacuum up so finishing isn't an easy task. Finishing on the lathe with friction polish helps. Dust can't settle easily on a moving object. Doesn't help with non-turned items, though.

[@Beettlejuice77]

Just wanted to say thanks, there were at least 4 or 5 new things i learned from your video. Keep it up mate!

[@trevwheeler8986]

3rd time watching this, finally took notes. I'm hoping by following some of this information I can be more efficient and have a better finish. Thanks Marc.

[@deeeeeeps]

One big tip he didn't mention is that the different grit you use creates different stain color. Rough grit- darker the stain will be...less grit will make the wood take less stain. Make sure you use the same grit on everything you do. Never use an RO on dark stain you will always see the swirl marks that or it gets so smooth it won't take stain.

[@InSidious1805]

Man I just ran into this issue. I am refinishing an old bed my dad bought me when I was a kid. I jumped right into 220 to sand down the old finish. One one end of the bed I went through 80, 150, and 220 and did not notice swirls I took my time. On the other end I rushed it and when I stained a portion I saw the dreaded swirls. So now I will go back and do it right. I have heard you can wipe down the work with mineral spirits prior to stain to remove sanding dust but when I did this I felt like the stain became diluted. Anyways keep up the good work thanks for the tips!

[@Metalbass10000]

Quick clarification, ceramic is hard, it is not tough. Very different terms, very important differences in meaning.

[@gondolacrescent5]

The most efficient way to sand is to follow the advice provided --- and get someone else to do it.

[@vincentwesolowski459]

Thank you very much. I'm starting a new project and this video is going to improve my sanding skills.

[@williamcarpenter569]

Very helpful. Thanks for this detailed information.

[@dlmad4561]

Thank mark i really enjoy learning from you. You are well spoken and I even enjoy your attempt at humor LOL.

[@Metalbass10000]

If I want to extend the useful life of my sandpaper I will do two things: 1) I will clean the paper with a plastic, brass, or stainless steel, brush (depending on the paper I'm using, and the the material I'm sanding). 2) I cover the back of the paper with a decent quality masking tape (obviously no hook and loop use, but I will apply new paper to a used piece of hook and loop with some adhesive on the back of the masking tape sticking to the used up grit).

[@woodwhisperer]

@ianjeisenberx Probably not. The random orbit sander is pretty much the only sander I use for everyday work. A belt sanding is far too aggressive for fine work and has a tendency to create scratches and divots.

[@2369chico]

Thanks for the thorough explanation.

[@cheeseisgreat24]

I grind mirrors for telescopes (Amateur ones mostly) and when grinding them, if you have even one particle of a bigger grit then the one you want, you end up with scratches that distort the image by a ton. I find the same is true of woodworking projects where you want a very smooth glassy finish, but in general I try to keep my grits from cross contaminating regardless. It's just good practice for the times when it actually really matters.

[@sybrae]

He has a festool. I own a Dewalt random orbital sander, but I got it as a gift, and I wanted to get the Bosch. I recommend the Bosch.

[@woodwhisperer]

I don't use it much myself, but from what I hear it is very high quality.

[@timothygoodman2972]

Hey, nice job on your videos. You did not mention the sand paper eraser. I cant remember what it was called when I bought mine. Basically its a foot long x 2 x 2 chunck of eraser material like we used a long time ago! Especially good for belt and thickness sanders, but works on orbitals and sanding blocks. Hold it against the running paper or stroke it across the block and it removes and unclogs the paper. I am amazed at how much extra life I get out of my paper. I am sure you know all about this but you may want to mention it sometime! Keep on whispering! Tim

[@woodwhisperer]

@TheHandystanley there are great books from both Flexner and Jewitt on the topic. I also have a short book myself that is geared toward beginners.

[@jesterraj]

hi I work with pine ...but it has a grain texture I sanded it to 220 grit to smooth but still has a lil grain texture ...how do I get it smooth flat.........? it dimension lumber im using....1x12x10

[@chris-zn2ge]

Is that the ETS 150/3? Have you ever used it to sand a door? I am sanding some interior doors and then staining them. Used a palm sander that left swirls. Veneer may be one that can only be done by hand since it scratches really bad when you cross the grain. And all of the sanders will cross the grain. Thank you.

[@goosecouple]

Do you have a video on choosing random orbital sander? What opm range to use, what orbit diameter to choose? Thx.

[@woodwhisperer]

They work quite well but I really only used them for the heavy machine sanders. Drum sander, spindler sander, disc sander, etc.

[@nok1n]

Love that lumber rack. Is there a video on constructing it?

[@randycontractor5772]

Great video. How much pressure should I put on an orbital sander? Just let it work with it's own weight? Double it?

[@mikeb084]

Great video! I hadn't thought about cross-contamination from sanded particles.

[@PlayLimeira]

It would be wonderful if you make available in Portuguese subtitles. You are very special and it should be spread around the world in other languages​​.

[@GogebicYooper]

As usual, nicely produced. The question of "how do I know when I have sanded enough" is not well covered based on my web searches. The pencil marks are a good indicator but I am wondering if there is a visual tool (perhaps a scope) or some other device or method that can be used to determine when it is time to advance to the next grit or to determine if a spot has been missed. Thanks.

[@geoseward]

I am having some cedar benches made. Unfortunately, most of the cedar obtainable is rough cedar and needs sanding. What sanding product would you use on a orbital sander?

[@timherrmann7066]

I like the idea of connecting the dust collector to the sander, but every hose I've used is very stiff and tough to manage--any recommendation?

[@Markus42TheGreat]

What kind of orbit sander do you have there? I am looking to upgrade from the one I am using now (had it for 10 years or so). Or which ones do you recommend?

[@julioaguiar3660]

Excellent explanation! Thanks

[@FitzgeraldFiles]

Always the best, Hi Mark can you do a video on hinges? Different types, installation and what’s best. Thanks so much….

[@tagi3d]

Is there a way to declog sandpaper or is it just time to throw it out and get a new one?

[@woodwhisperer]

Hmm, that's a tough one given the shape. I bet drum shops probably have a custom solution for that. But the best you can probably do with current stuff on the market is possibly using a small headed sander like the Festool RO DX 90

[@2JustMe1]

What do you think about the Diablo sand net?

[@TheHandystanley]

As always another well crafted video. So taking this to the next step, I am interested in learning more about finishing and refinishing. Are there any books / reference material that you could recommend?

[@BartBuilds]

Why would 63 people dislike this great video?

[@svseaglobe]

Thank you Mark! great video..... :-)

[@ianjeisenberx]

What about TYPES of sanders? If i have a hand-held belt sander is it going to be effective for fine grain?

[@kevint6569]

Thanks. I just saw 3 things I've been doing wrong.

[@Mrcaffinebean]

Have you done a vid on that lumber rack?

[@howycwap]

What kind of sander would you recommend for the inside of a drum, from 13"-14" wide. I cant find anything that conforms to the angle and have to resort to hand sanding through all the grits.

[@outsidescrewball]

Great info,tips.....thanks

[@Wayoutthere]

Clear and informative, thx!

[@MulderXfile]

excellent video. Thanks

[@davidwilliams3643]

Hey. Have you tried the CEROS or DEROS Mirka sanders?

[@howycwap]

Thanks! I'll have to check that out, itll save alot of time.

[@JulianPaulJonesSfatcu]

I have a 25 year old table with lacquer finish. The finish if ok but I just want to give it an extra coat of clear finish. I can't spray lacquer in the apartment. If I scuff the surface with 320 grit, COULD I USE WATERLOX WIPE-ON ?

[@nickmiller1613]

Have you ever used one of those sandpaper cleaners? They are basically a giant eraser block that you run the sand paper over and cleans out the clogs. Do you have an opinion on these?

[@JonathanARae]

Thanks for sharing your educational videos. It would cost me a small fortune if we went to a technical school for this.

[@ronin4711]

Nice video clip, how about Mirka Abranet sandpaper, or Carborundum sandpaper?

[@brandonc503]

liked it. making adirondack chairs but the true chairy looking ones. i get squiggles, but found why recently. think im gana try 220 as my last grit. did you say soapy water to sand wood?

[@g3yye]

Super video. Thanks

[@TheMiwer]

Yes, I thought so ;-) . It just made me giggle a bit.. Thanx for your vids anyway. Cheers from Denmark

[@woodwhisperer]

@Mrcaffinebean Sure did. I hid it under the title "How to Build a Lumber Rack". :) Just look through the vids on our page and you should be able to find it quickly.

[@jimbo2629]

I use 3M TriMite silicon carbide paper. I haven’t found anything better or longer lasting. Don’t forget sandpaper dressing sticks if you want your paper to last much longer.

[@colleenkaralee2280]

For rough knotty pine shelving boards - 3M Purple Regalite Resin Bond 80 Grit Cloth Sanding Belt​​​,3x21 - is good or not?

[@rafaellastracom6411]

Outstanding explanation as usual. You are a perfect ambassador for Festool, they should consider themselves lucky to have you on board.

[@woodwhisperer]

Well this was a long time ago. They no longer have me on board but I still enjoy using some of their tools. :)

[@mfr336]

I have no experience. My husband made me a beautiful black walnut table, and I wanted it to be finished like butcher block. I agreed to do the sanding and finishing, (he knows nothing about oil finish). So, when I oiled the table after thinking I did a great job sanding, I see the pigtail squiggles everywhere! Can I still sand, or will the mineral oil gum up the sand paper? Thanks for any advice, I feel like a moron!

[@Gomethog]

Other than Festool, do you have another paper you recommend? I use Diablo mostly because it's available, but after watching this I wonder is it just a fancy name, or is it quality paper?

[@kplante7881]

Thanks Marc. What do think of Mirka brand sand paper?

[@kenwagner5667]

where can i buy a soft pad for curved surface sanding? can't find on line.

[@JimTom.]

hes got the festool ets, there is ets 3 and ets 5, the ets 3 ( i think is the one in the video), has a smaller orbit motion 3mm, and the ets 5 has a 5mm orbital motion, so they produce different smothness, BUT... they are quite expensive being a festool !!, i know you didnt ask me :), but i would recomend the bosch for a beginner or even a pro, they are popular well priced and good quality! : )

[@attainableapex]

can you post some projects like you used to do?

[@Marcus3.14]

Quote: "Woodworkers do not enjoy sanding". I don't mind sanding to be honest. I like watching the wood progress on to ever finer finishes. To me, it's an art and a discipline when making shore that you've given each grit rating enough time to do its thing. Many times, I’ve been impatient and moved onto the next grit and found out later that there are miner imperfections, caused by the rougher grits, that weren’t given enough time to be warn away.

[@krank2kold]

Could I use the festool platin pad on an oil finish without burning through the finish? I wanna use it on my regular orbital sander!

[@woodwhisperer]

Sure, but you'd still need to be careful in your approach.

[@HewAndAwe]

Hi Marc, I'm hoping you can help me, I recently bought the Rotex RO 125 and gave my random orbital sanders away, since using the RO 125 everything I've sanded working through the grits, not skipping grits - then when applying stain my work is covered in swirls/scratches which stick out like a pork sausage at a jewish wedding. This was never the case before using my old dewalt sanders working through the same grits. The RO 125 sometimes is very hard to control too, jumps and acts like a dropped switched on router... Any ideas where I'm going wrong?

[@woodwhisperer]

That's why I don't like using the Rotex as my "everyday" sander. Even in the random orbital setting I find it out of balance and difficult to control. That's exactly why you have those scratch marks. Folks who are fans of the Rotex say you can get much better results by hanging the dust hose over your shoulder and that helps lift the back of the sander up. I haven't tried it myself but my ETS150 does such a good job I never really think about it much.

[@HewAndAwe]

Thank you ever so much for getting back to me, your answer was the only honest answer I have received, very much appreciated! - just a shame I've blown so much money with all the pads etc on this sander... I'm guessing it's good for 'rubbing out' varnish I mean ;) Hope so, that was one of the reasons I went for that sander as I have noticed you usually use the ETS150

[@woodwhisperer]

Rob N Wood Glad to help. And keep in mind that Festool really holds its value in resale. So you can probably recuperate nearly all of your investment and redirect the funds to the ETS150.

[@HewAndAwe]

It's very nice you have taken the time respond, and very appreciated!!! I can't help but think maybe it would be best to keep the RO 125 and use it for polishing only ...and save for the ETS 150. Everything I read is a little misleading to say the least... what I read suggests the ETS is/can do the same job but it's not a two-in-one like the RO. So it's a bit like pissing in the wind, where should I face haha The RO in your opinion, what purpose does it for-fill for you if any? ...I have more luck trying to control a woman after 2 bottles of pinot grigio than I do this sander!

[@bobfre1]

+ben celiz Perhaps you should have kept your Dewalt sanders? For the cost of the RO 125 you could have at least half a dozen Dewalts all loaded with different grits and if one ever did fail (unlikely since none of them would get many hours on them), you would have a shop full of spares! Festool really is the Rolex of tools. Looks nice, works well, impresses folks that like that have the need to show how much they've spent on their tools, but fundamentally isn't any better than any other quality brand. I'll continue to wear my Citizen and Casio watches.

[@woodwhisperer]

@nok1n Yup. Just search for "lumber rack" and you'll find it. :)

[@johnfrizza681]

You mention the Festool longlife pad: could you please give me the part number for the 6" version?

[@Jay2525Jay]

Thank you.

[@221Dw]

Great video

[@cdomaika]

Marc, I'm very curious if you have ever used the trend air shield pro respirator and if so what's your thoughts. I know that regular respirators work well but I find that during long sanding periods you end up beat, sweating, and sometimes with a headache from laboring for air. love everything you do my friend

[@woodwhisperer]

I haven't tried one but I'd like to. Maybe I'll order one up after we get settled in the new shop.

[@JeremyReardon1]

Good info, thank you: )

[@lokyinphotography]

You are awesome!

[@brian2k1]

What Festool sander would you recommend if I already have a entry level ($30!) corner finish sander? I can't decide between a ETS 150/3 or a Rotex 90 or 125. I also want to order a systainer for the papers, what do you suggest for a beginner variety pack? I know Festool offered one before but I can't find one to order or even see the contents. Too many choices!

[@TheFrost86]

Have you tested the mirka abranet? I thinkt they collect the dust better and clogs less then the festal papers.

[@sailingcatcharay]

Good one dudd!

[@SamMaskery]

verry nice could you do a vidieo on advance sanding going in to more depth. As you say you could spend hours talking about sanding.