1850s Mock Apple Pie - Old Cookbook Show

[@GlenAndFriendsCooking]

This Pie is related to the vinegar pie from a couple weeks ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZqzZWala7h-Z8k It's also related to the Green Tomato pie we did a few years ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6G4g5dud9ChhNk

[@terichewbaccazulu5908]

yes to the turnip experiment, by the way :)

[@angelarex9497]

Fyi-the recipe in the description above seems to be missing the bread crumbs

[@Mikeyt171163]

Hey Glen, did you see the ingredients on the label of your tartaric acid? Citric acid...?

[@GlenAndFriendsCooking]

@@Mikeyt171163 Yeah super confusing - I'm told by the importer that it's Tartaric, but the label is wrong (translation issues?).

[@znachkiznachki5352]

What was your bread cube integrity at the end of the bake? I ask because you kept saying 'bread crumbs', as does the recipe, but you used bread 'cubes'. So, I wonder if the bread had been more crumby than cubey, would it have thickened more?

[@griffsimcox9459]

I Used to work with a lady who would randomly bring baked goods to work to share. One day she brought in an apple crisp ( i am a sucker for apple crisp) it was delicious. later she fessed up to there were not any apples in it. huh? she used zucchini and lemon just wanted to share :)

[@garden333]

Agree, it is delicious. I always make mock apple pie, and crisp in the spring. I also make a mock crap cakes with zucchini, and mock pineapple.

[@michaelreid8857]

Interesting use of Zucchini 😮

[@virginiaf.5764]

​@@garden333 Crap cakes?

[@amstrad00]

Yup, mock apple pie made with zucchini is an excellent way to use zucchini in a different way, which can be important if you or someone you know grew too many zucchini in the garden and you're looking for novel ways to use it all up.

[@Lynn-kh5rs]

I have a great Mock Apple Pie recipe that I got from my SIL that uses zucchini. The key for the pie is to use a zucchini that has grown to about 3-4 lbs. Once sliced and slightly cooked it had the texture of cooked apples. Spices and lemon juice add the flavor.

[@DavidBrown-ye5xv]

Hi Glenn in Appalachia, where I live, dried apple pies were exceedingly common in my childhood. It was a reliable way to winter over apple harvest and a great concentrated apple flavor.

[@debjordan4399]

Looking forward to the mock apple pie made with turnip. I really enjoy all your Old Cookbook Show videos.

[@lesliemoiseauthor]

^^^^

[@timothyogden9761]

Me Too!

[@manitobasky]

I’m more interested if Glen is going to use “real” turnip or a rutabaga… I know someone that makes a mock apple loaf with rutabagas and it is lets just say it is less then optimal.

[@user-Aaron-]

​@@manitobasky I love rutabaga and think it's actually best raw, but the ones you buy at the store are so often at least a little bit bitter when cooked that you have to expect that possibility and either like it or not mind it, or accommodate it. For that reason I can't see him using rutabaga over turnip, but I'm curious and intrigued enough to want to see him make one with both or one of each.

[@22vinebrook10]

When I was a teenager in the late 70’s, I made the mock apple pie recipe that was on the Ritz Cracker box. My family and I were amazed by how much it tasted like the real thing, even its appearance was “ close enough.” 😀 Have never made it since, but can still taste it. 😊

[@Ozefan2580]

I remember seeing that recipe on the Ritz Crackers box and being absolutely fascinated. I never made it, but now wish I had.

[@Your.Uncle.AngMoh]

When I see "mock apple pie", I think of a regulation pie crust, and the filling is made with chokos/chayotes and a small amount of apple cider vinegar and apple pie spice mix to replace real apples. Seeing as chokos will grow like a weed in a lot of the populated areas of Australia, many houses would have a choko vine growing on the wall of the outside toilet. A great Depression-era food when you couldn't afford apples- fresh or canned. The same went with people eating a lot of rabbit, which was- and still is- a major pest species. If your dad or brothers didn't go out trapping them, someone in your neighbourhood did. My paternal grandmother would always shudder and say "Yuck, underground mutton" at the mention of it. Having been born in 1920, I assume Grace and her seven siblings probably ate their fair share of it. Maybe a quarter of a teaspoon of xanthan gum as a thickener, but that wasn't invented until the 1960s. Cornstarch, or something similar that they would have had back in the mid-19th Century? Another great video, Glen. You, Max Miller, and B. Dylan Hollis should all get together. And rope in John Townsend while you're at it!

[@cherylrosbak4092]

Oh, that's an excellent use of chokos. Too bad we can get them often where I live.

[@13c11a]

Cinnamon in apple pie is a relatively new thing. I've noticed that all the old cookbooks I've collected call for nutmeg and no cinnamon. Incidentally, over 50 years ago I made a mock apple pie with Ritz crackers and a much better cook and baker than I argued with me at the time that I was pulling her leg. She was positive that the pie contained apples. As I remember, it was delicious and passed the taste test as being a real apple pie. The texture was identical to a real apple pie as well. Thanks very much.

[@donnacameron4515]

In the “Little house on the prairie” book series ma makes a mock apple pie with a cut up green pumpkin. I imagine it would be similar to the turnip use. Pa was surprised by the way. 😂😂

[@cindyglass5827]

Donna ... interesting, cute, tfs : ) !!

[@Ozefan2580]

I recall that, too! There were a lot of great food ideas I those books....like using carrot scraps and squeezing them to produce just enough liquid to color their homemade butter.

[@laurietuzzato5501]

Like the new eyeglass frames. Corn starch or flour might assist with thickening or less water. 1 1/2 cups possibly. And I love how you impart food history. You area natural teacher. Thank you.

[@critterjon4061]

I love these different “mock” recipes and I hope you do more of them

[@ragingblazemaster]

That crust looks PERFECT!

[@billcondron9967]

In the Little House books, Laura Ingalls Wilder also made several references to vinegar pie. So those have also been around long before the Great Depression.

[@shirleyrose3279]

A few more breadcrumbs or a little less water maybe. I made mock apple pie with zucchini, lemon juice sugar and spices. Very close.

[@LooseChange7325]

Happy Sunday!

[@The7humpwump]

My favorite videos by you are the deep dive series like KFC and coke. This seems like a mini deep dive…the turnip cliff hanger has me holding my breath until the next installment

[@cherylgaston7229]

Before my parents married in 1956, Mom made Dad an "apple pie" . It was years before she told him it was the mock apple/Ritz cracker pie. Long after I became an adult he was still talking about how good it was and you couldn't tell it wasnt apples.

[@swc2019]

Yes! You didn't tell Julie what you made; you just let her guess! You should do that more often!

[@emilybilbow4990]

Let’s be honest… if you add sugar, butter and spices to most neutral tasting foods it’s going to be decent!!! Lol ❤️

[@RonOhio]

I look forward to seeing it made with turnips, and I hope you will bake a pie with dried apples. My grandmother made incredible fried pies using dried apples. I can remember her slicing the apples, and placing the slices on a screen door laid on the porch roof with cheesecloth over them.

[@OzSteve9801]

We have a fruit in Australia called choko. They take on the taste of whatever you cook them with so they make a great extender for apple pie if you don't have enough apples. It works with rhubarb or any other fruit that you put it with and can equally be used with other vegetables if you don't have enough in a recipe. Growing up in the country in the 60's and 70's I remember lots of people had choko vines in their garden. I still see them in the supermarket but people seem to have forgotten them now fruit and vegetables can be obtained virtually all year.

[@lenalyles2712]

My mother made a mock apple pie using turnips, we didn't have a good apple or potato crop that year, but had a bumper crop of turnips. Very good flavor using cinnamon and nutmeg.

[@rabidsamfan]

Thank you for explaining nutmeg!

[@carbondragon]

I love these old historical recipes even when they're bad. Plus your cooking style encourages me to try to figure out the theory behind the stuff you make and that is useful. It's kind of amazing how a recipe can mimic another flavor in totally crazy ways. People are very adaptable.

[@surlyogre1476]

Thanks, Glen, for the tip about using a pizza stone to crisp up a bottom crust.

[@linkin20la]

Hi Glen. You should try and make a mock apple pie with chayote. I read a story once about people in Australia saying McDonald's uses chayote instead of apples in their pies. Apparently chayote takes the flavor of anything around it and it has a similar texture.

[@dianeb95]

😂 loved the dance when Julie guessed apple! Thanks for the interesting info on the nutmeg. I may have to look for one in the store next time. I’ve only ever used the ground McCormick stuff.

[@virginiaf.5764]

But I loved the sideway glance he gave to the camera after the first bite LOL.

[@julie9577]

OooOOoOOOOoooHhhhh! I'm excited about the turnip mock apple pie! Thanks for everything you do Glen!

[@sharlenezuhlke1561]

I did not know that about nutmeg. Thank you!

[@annies2416]

So interesting. Thanks Glen!

[@hollywebster6844]

I really enjoy the food history and experiments that you present on your channel. While it is doubtful that I will ever be moved to make a turnip pie, I will watch every video you post about such a culinary adventure!

[@ericbarlow6772]

I’m from the foothills of North Carolina and my mother recalls her grandmother (my great grandmother) taking the cores out of apples and stringing them up on her porch and drying them that way. She would take her dried apples and make pie with it. It’s interesting how technology has totally changed our culinary culture.

[@kusinanijunior]

THIS IS BRILLIANT! THANKS GLEN FOR ALL THE INFO..KEEP SAFE

[@johnnydonaldcarr1847]

Interesting idea

[@798081aa]

❤❤ We love your videos so much!! You remind me of my professors from Humber College, Ontario 🎉🎉 it’s so lovely to watch your videos and enjoy my time in the kitchen! Thank you guys so much 😊

[@sus1221]

I'm so glad you're going to try the turnip version. Looking forward to that video!

[@clbudd]

I know an older gentleman that used to make a mock apple pie from green tomatoes. I never knew the difference until he told me.

[@GlenAndFriendsCooking]

Yes! we did a Green Tomato "Apple Pie" a couple of years ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6G4g5dud9ChhNk Thanks for reminding me.

[@elmerkilred159]

I'm really liking this 1850s theme!

[@phyllisreinking4208]

Can’t wait for the turnip mock apple version! I never knew turnips had that chameleon trait but I do love them boiled with lots of pepper and a spoonful of bacon grease.

[@seano4977]

Half a nutmeg? John Townsend is going to love this. 🤣

[@ThornAndel]

That was interseting, I learned somethng today. Thanks.

[@bryanparkhurst17]

I've always been fascinated with the human obsession of deriving substitutes. Sometimes the word "mock" makes a mockery of the intended dish.

[@CookingwithCatLover0330]

Turnups? Interesting. I may need to make this pie. Thank you.

[@NannaCarlstedt2]

Thank´s Glen!

[@srice6231]

Turnips are also an easy thing to grow in a garden! Plus they do not have a lot of carbs....although the sugar and crust do.😂 I look forward to your making this with turnips!

[@fefelarue2948]

I use Cream of Tartar for my lemons desserts; it extends the citrus flavor.

[@cathyconklin5135]

My family is from water town! Wow❤

[@jameshill2450]

Maybe the bread wasn't stale enough, that's why it's so wet. I imagine 1850s bread would have been a bit harder/denser than ours in the first place, so our day-old bread is probably closer to what they would start with and then it gets stale from there.

[@GlenAndFriendsCooking]

It was very dry, very stale - weeks. We keep the ends of our home made bread, dry it and use it for bread pudding. Some of those chunks could have been months old.

[@Minnesota_Mama_Bear]

Interesting 💚🤘

[@elmerkilred159]

I usually use turnips in beef and vegetable soups and stews. I would have never guessed that you could use it as a sub for apples. This actually makes some logistical sense, because turnips you can leave in the ground longer than you can store apples. Apples also have to be stored higher in the root cellars because of the gas that they release forces other vegetables to ripen faster. (Its like ethylene gas or something that is used to ripen grocery store Rutgers tomatoes that are picked and shipped green). So, about the apples in the 1850s; You have droves of people leaving the East Coast of the U.S. to the West (Manifest Destiny, "Go West, and Grow with America...") People are heading to Westport (City of Kansas, AKA Kansas City) to take wagons across "a great desert" to Santa Fe, New Mexico, San Francisco... on the Oregon Train, Santa Fe Trail. Kansas did not have native apple trees, and anything that would have shipped into Westport would have been old or local tree varieties might not have been as great as cultivars of apples from orchards back East. Here is the problem of growing an apple from seed. 1. It takes a minimum of 8 years to grow a small fruit bearing apple tree. (most nurseries have 6 year old tree starts). 2. The seeds have to go through a process of cold moist stratification, so unless you own an Ice house, you have to really plan this out. 3. Apple trees will not survive extreme winter freezes. (They're grown mostly in hardiness zones of 7 to 6). 4. One of the reasons for a substitute of lemons may be due to the accessibility of growing citrus in places like California, Mexico/Texas, Florida. Until Westward Expansion with the rail, (post U.S. Civil War 1865 + 8 years) getting a good apple probably was a serious undertaking. 5. You can pack crates of turnips filled with dirt to travel for months, and you probably have a good substitute for apples for apple pie.(I have to see the next episode). Probably more of a post than you will ever read, but it got the wheels turning. Great video! Thank you!.

[@cindyglass5827]

Elmer ... interesting points & info, Thanks for sharing - I learn so much from reading peoples comments on here : ) Q : How long could turnips ''last'' if packed in Dirt in the winter (as in a very cold winter) [as in a garage or shed we have] OR would they freeze ?

[@elmerkilred159]

@@cindyglass5827 I have had turnips grow though the winter and produce greens in raised beds. One of the storage methods for root crops in root cellars are to bury them in sand, or soil and they are supposed to store for up to 6 months. I'm guessing that Turnips would be the same. (I'm sure that there is a learning curve to it).

[@cindyglass5827]

@@elmerkilred159 Hmmm, ... ok : ) Thank-you !

[@hecate235]

Another thing is if you grow apples from seed, you have no idea what you're going to get. Apples don't "breed" true, the varieties we love are all cuttings (clones) from an original tree. Every apple seed is a shot in the dark, but that's why there are so many varieties.

[@ladylilac4363]

This is so interesting! Can you try the Ritz one too. I remember the recipe on the box as a child and thought it was so strange lol.

[@just_a_stump]

No way! I live in Watertown! So cool!

[@asdisskagen6487]

I love the history lesson mixed in with interesting recipes and a relaxing cooking video. Better entertainment than Hollywood puts out 😂

[@Suree.Lifestyle]

January through March is peak for Florida citrus. By the 1870s, there were railroads everywhere, and the transcontinental railway was completed in 169

[@DeliaLee8]

omg - I learned so much today! -- tartaric acid/cream of tartar, that the aril on the nutmeg is mace (and is beautiful). Thanks for another great video. PS hmmm....turnip? I look forward to what you find out. :)

[@richardcummings7079]

My grandmother made mock apple pie for us when i was a kid in the early 50's. I have her hand written recipe.

[@beverlycosgrove8827]

my mother used to make a mock apple pie, using choko& tartaric acid..as choko"s don,t have much flavour, but did look like apple when cut up in slices.choko,s were easy to grow , most familys had a vine growing over the back fence. back in the 50s 60s in australia.

[@ragingblazemaster]

My favorite part of Sunday morning! Hi friends!

[@larry1873]

good

[@DunyahDances]

I think I agree with the chef who said this pie should stay in the 1850s. Nutritionally it's a big zero. Still, a very interesting video and I enjoyed watching and learning.

[@joanneholinaty7325]

Hi we always use zucchini for mock Apple pie. Thank you for all that you do we love you show

[@Lynn-kh5rs]

The best Mock Apple Pie I've ever had my SIL served me. It used an over large zucchini. The zucchini was one that was missed in the garden and had grown to about 3-4 lbs. Since the flesh was so thick once it was cut it looked liked apple slices in the pie. I believe it used lemon juice for the acid. Like you mentioned with the turnips, the zucchini took on the flavors of the spices put into the pie. The taste and texture really did mimic an apple pie.

[@kajellio]

I grew up in Watertown, NY! It's fun to see when it gets mentioned in different places.

[@christinasteyer8980]

Can't wait for the turnip pie!!

[@Tiger351]

Interesting that you mentioned Turnips and McDonald Apple pies, here in Australia they're disparagingly called "Hot Choko pies" as it was found that up to 80% of the filling locally back in the 80's was in fact Choko with added "Apple flavour".

[@ColinLeuze]

Yay! After one of your videos, we did 'A Cook Not Mad' for cookbook club- in Watertown, NY. Great book.

[@sandrafournier8196]

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge.

[@Beehashe]

That’s half a Townsends worth of nutmeg!

[@brutus1119]

My grandmother used to have a recipe for Apple pie made wholly or partially with chokos. They have a very similar texture to Apple when cooked and little taste of their own. They used to grow in back yards everywhere, usually over a fence or a shed. I've looked everywhere but I can't find the recipe ☹

[@virginiaf.5764]

There are quite a few recipes for chayote (choko) pies online. I'm sure you could find one similar to your grandmother's.

[@mnoxman]

Just to point out that in the 1850- 1900 there were a number of "panics" and "depressions". In 1873 there was a long depression. So it is a 'depression pie' just not the depression that is forefront in our collective memory.

[@bokkenka]

I have a few apple trees in my yard. I pick a couple bushels every fall. I wrap them in newspaper and store them in milk crates in the root cellar. I still have a bunch from last fall. I wouldn't eat them like a fresh apple, but they are fine baked. I just had a couple yesterday with my pancakes.

[@michaelreid8857]

I would suggest making some apple compote with them. Ready to use on top of Pancakes, or as an Apple Crisp!

[@revlorebg2]

In the Little house Books, Ma makes mock apple pie out of green pumpkin. I always appreciate your take on these old recipes and l learn a lot of history this way.

[@rt3box6tx74]

I once found a chuckwagon cook's recipe for Ritz cracker pie.

[@crystalwright1504]

I found it interesting that he mocks the pie but continues on with instructions for what I assume is mock capers using nasturtium buds...? I love these discussions, Glen. Thanks for all of your hard, time-consuming research on our behalf.

[@BlackFrostQueen]

I look forward to the turnip video. This recipe was very interesting.

[@joanneentwistle7653]

Have you tried some of the recipes in the Canadian Settler's Guide by Catherine Parr Trail? It is not strictly a cookbook but does have some recipes in it

[@laurajohnson2674]

Whaaaat??? Turnips??? I never knew this. And the nutmeg vs mace thing either. So fun to watch and learn from you.

[@david.mcmahan]

Zucchini can make a very convincing mock apple pie especially if you get the spices right.

[@aslandus]

I assume one of the tricks with this sort of mock apple pie is that most of the flavor people associate with "apple pie" comes from the spices, not the fruit itself, so replacing the fruit with... Well, basically anything that can get the right texture and the right profile of acidity and sweetness is a relatively simple way to make an "apple" pie even when apples aren't available.

[@tanshihus1]

Instead of the turnip, you should consider using sliced Daikon. Been thinking about trying it since the vinegar pie last week. Haven't made my mind up about using fresh or pickled.

[@ubombogirl]

@GlenAndFriendsCooking thanks for showing the whole nutmeg including the mace...i had not seen it like that before although i did know where mace comes from.

[@LukeEdward]

Fresh nutmeg is so much the key to great taste! Anyone who buys nutmeg ready ground doesn’t know what they’re missing.

[@heatherandrews1780]

Maybe you could add a cornstarch slurry to thicken it.

[@carolwilliams7052]

Do you have "The American Woman's Cookbook" ed. by Berholzheimer (sp)? It really is based on a good deal of French cooking. There are many copies out there, but sales listings don't always indicate the publishing date. My 2 copies (one was my mom's; the other, my aunt's) were both published during WW2 and have a very functional section at the back regarding recipes with alternatives to rationed foods (example: lima bean loaf). If you're going to seek a copy, be sure to think about getting one of those !!!

[@t.s.fleming7171]

We have seen your supply room. Would live to see your book room. You must have hundreds of cook books and pamphlets.

[@rebeccaturner5503]

Dried apples take up a lot less storage room and can last for 2 years. And as you said they keep better in warmer climates

[@superomgcheese]

This was a great episode. It's this kind of thing that made me interested in the channel and why I keep checking back for more. The experiments where you are either trying to replicate something (Coke or KFC recipes), or an old, interesting, recipe where some effort is made to actually reproduce the true original recipe, as is, and results be dammed, is fascinating. That said, I'm curious about the results with the turnip. Some good general cooking advice in this one too. Enjoyed it. 👍

[@Magius61]

I have heard legends in my area of a mock apple pie that employed turnips as the base.

[@stillhuntre55]

As someone who can't eat apple, the mock apple that's been working for me is rhubarb and zucchini

[@andrewclarke106]

Choko or chayote or pear squash, whatever you might call it is what I've always know as a common accompaniment with apples to make apple pie

[@LadyInBlue3]

Great video, thanks Glen. Did you get the whole nutmeg with the mace on it in the grocery store? I can get just the nutmeg portion here in the upper mdwest

[@GlenAndFriendsCooking]

Yes - there are a few grocery chains here in Toronto that sell them that way.

[@Halak014]

Turnip sound like it will be an cool revisit of this

[@marilyn1228]

I'm stoked about you using the turnip.

[@Bojambo]

I asked ChatGPT about the cookbook title, because I was confused: The title "Cook not Mad" can indeed be puzzling at first glance, but it can be understood better when considering the historical context and language usage of the time. The cookbook, officially titled "The Cook Not Mad, or Rational Cookery," was published in 1831 in both the United States and Canada. It is recognized as the first cookbook published in Canada. The title "Cook not Mad" can be interpreted as suggesting that the cook (or the person preparing the food) is not mad or irrational, but rather sensible and logical in their approach to cooking. The term "mad" was used in the 19th century to describe someone who was deemed insane or irrational. The title essentially implies that the recipes and techniques presented within the cookbook are practical, rational, and grounded in common sense. In essence, the title is an early marketing tactic, meant to attract potential readers by asserting that the cookbook offers sound, reasonable advice for cooking, as opposed to the potentially irrational or overly complicated methods that may have been present in other cookbooks or culinary practices of the time.

[@GlenAndFriendsCooking]

Ha! Even ChatGPT is promoting the myth that it was the first cookbook published in Canada... It wasn't.

[@paulan5989]

Bring on the turnip!

[@JDoors]

My Mom made an apple pie ... or so I thought. I overheard the adults talking about how it was a "mock" apple pie and from context I understood "mock" meant there were no apples! What? It was an apple pie! It looked like an apple pie, it tasted like an apple pie ... I overheard it was made with Ritz crackers and I sneaked into the kitchen to find and read the recipe on the Ritz cracker box. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't read it myself (I'm nerdy). Never had it since and I don't know if it would fool grown-up me, but that. was. an. apple. pie. 😄

[@nicoled.4472]

Also looking forward to the mock apple pie made with turnip, but also wondering if adding cornstarch would work to thicken it or ground tapioca....🤔

[@rowanrobbins]

I would think that turnips, with their strong, cabbagey flavor, would overwhelm everything else in a pie. I await this next food adventure anxiously.

[@pollymcdonald7368]

I believe that the reason for the soupy filling is the bread. Bread was much different in 1850, and likely could thicken something like this more effectively.

[@Silverstiletto]

I would also be tempted to put in a package a gelatin.

[@horticultureandhomes]

When did mock apple pie made with zuchinni come into vogue? It's quite good.