1964 TR4 - Part 18 - I Made A Mistake

[@ralphbillick1210]

Everyone makes mistakes , it’s what you do when you find yourself making that mistake and you came out ahead of the game with a new tool you can use any time you need it and you spent a few more hours with the car you like ❗️🇺🇸 Keep making memories.

[@russelblackwell6041]

Great tool you made indeed you are human we are lucky we have KZbinrs to share experience so knowledge is a powerful tool

[@djnedinbane2014]

Put piston near tdc, fill chamber through plug hole with thin rope or cord, carefully move piston to tdc so that cord holds valve closed. Not that you will ever need to do this again!! Great video as usual.

[@RustyBeauties]

Yeah, I’ve hard about that, but I want to reduce the amount of external bodies going in and out of the cylinders. This worked well

[@DanNorth42]

I've done this on a SBC on the side of the highway to swap out a broken valve spring in my youth (don't re-use 50 year old valve springs, kids!)

[@MrWaalkman]

I've done this using "Woven Polyester Cable-Pulling Tape" for electricians (I had some that came off of a job that I was on). Super supple stuff, and worked extremely well.

[@magraves1334]

To add to your new tool I would make a fitting for the spark plug hole that is similar to a compression tool fitting except that it hooks up to an air compressor with a pressure regulator. Air pressure will hold up the valves giving you two hands to change the springs

[@RustyBeauties]

I understand that is something that people do, but... Compressed air carries a lot of moisture and unless you have a really good air dryer in your system it is not a great idea in my opinion. I don't have a dryer and also what I did is way simpler and worked just fine so if I have to do it again I would do it the same way.

[@garysweetland32]

Much better, good job and nice tool. BTW it isn't necessary to fit gaskets under the rocker posts, they don't leak. And even if it does, the meagre amount will have no effect on oil pressure. I've never seen a gasket there before. 😵‍💫

[@BruceBoschek]

That was a clever solution to the problem. There are a lot of little secrets to assembling an engine. It's really good that viewers caught the mistake. Thanks for sharing this, Elin!

[@Michaelsiegmund-ff3kp]

Elin, thanks for everything you do. Regarding the thermostat, the original had a skirt, or sleeve, to close the bypass once the engine warms. Moss part number 434-156. Moss lists this only for TR2 through 3B but that is not correct. The TR4 manual clearly shows the thermostat with the skirt. My TR4 had the same type thermostat you have installed when I bought the car and I had an overheating problem. Installation of the correct original thermostat solved the problem.

[@flyingarts6765]

Good save Elin....a bit late, but I was told to always lightly tap the top of the valve with a hammer after assembly to make sure the keepers are positioned properly and won't come off.

[@RustyBeauties]

I used to do that with a socket on top of the upper collar. But I found that sometimes I actually mess them up instead if fixing them so I just make sure that my keepers are in visually. You can tell when they are not sitting properly

[@jjmac3561]

Dont hit the collar, just hit the top of the valve. It might look seated but it makes a big mess when it isn't as you bed in the camshaft at 2,000 + rpm

[@gavinstevenson2698]

Hi Elin, here is an Idea for you to help hold up the valves should the same mistake happen again - hollow out a spark plug and weld on a pneumatic fitting and screw in the homemade adapted spark plug and connect to your compressor airline use air pressure to hold up the inlet and outlet valves at the same time so you don't have to struggle to hold up the valves whilst fitting the springs and collets

[@RustyBeauties]

I understand that is something that people do, but... Compressed air carries a lot of moisture and unless you have a really good air dryer in your system it is not a great idea in my opinion. I don't have a dryer and also what I did is way simpler and worked just fine so if I have to do it again I would do it the same way.

[@pauloconnor7951]

@@RustyBeauties AHHHHH. you're going to run the motor. Everything is oiled up inside the Cylinder. Just run it. If you must do it your way. an Okey strap pulling on the valve lift "screwdriver".

[@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm]

great cars TR4 i have some work on them time ! better than a TR6 . thanks = TR5 is my favorite !

[@TheMikeb52]

Damn, I just checked and I did the same thing with some of my Vv springs. Oie! Think I’l just buy the tool that you made though. In a hurry and next day amazon.. Really enjoy the series. Helped me rebuild my TR3 engine as part of a 5 spd upgrade I have been doing over the winter. Cheers.

[@2dumb2knoworcare]

You should have pressurized the cylinder with air pressure from your shop air hose. Use your hose from your compression tester screwed into the spark plug hole and chucked into your air hose. Hopefully they are the same and compatible. If not get a chuck that fits and keep it in the drawer with your compression tester for next time. Also make up a old rocker shaft with old pedestals or tube spacers mounted where it normally goes. Make a bar that will go under the rocker shaft and fulcrum over the valve spring retainer, pressing it down. The bar needs to extend over and be bent up for leverage, and have a work through slot made in it for the valve stem and keepers to go up through. The old rocker shaft set up is way more stable than what you made up. You could possibly make it up long enough to accommodate both 4 and 6 cylinder engines. But good job with what you made and it works.

[@RustyBeauties]

I understand that is something that people do, but... Compressed air carries a lot of moisture and unless you have a really good air dryer in your system it is not a great idea in my opinion. I don't have a dryer and also what I did is way simpler and worked just fine so if I have to do it again I would do it the same way. Regarding the bar, yes, it is another way of doing it, but my way worked just fine and it works for 4 or 6 cylinders too so... :)

[@davidfidler1174]

Nice fix and ingenious tool design Elin. Please tell the owner that he has two passenger side wiper arms on his car. The driver’s side should be a straight arm, not cranked. The cranked arm is to miss the scuttle flap when it’s open.

[@RustyBeauties]

Thanks Fid. Yes, we know about the arm, I have a new driver side one in the box with new parts waiting to be installed.

[@philtucker1224]

Yes while your on the subject I previously noticed (on one of Cheftush’s TR6) that Triumph didn’t bother changing the wiper layout for the left hand drive cars, so in America only the passenger gets the full screen cleared and the driver has to make do with only the two- thirds cleared screen! 🤣😂

[@marklong2248]

I Made a similar tool years ago to change the valve seals on our Merc 280Te. I held the valves up with string fed into the spark plug hole then raising the piston towards tdc. Well done with your save!

[@RustyBeauties]

Yes, that is another way, but I was trying to avoid introducing any debris in the cylinders.

[@pbysome]

A good tip when making small gaskets, make the holes leave the gasket oversize bolt the rockers down and cut of the excess after with a sharp blade

[@alethacriss9308]

Love the Rumba music, more pleasant rather than your spring issue! Tom says you will never make that mistake again! 🥴

[@xxxyyy9325]

For keeping the valves up,make an adapterof an old spark plug and connect to compressed air/ best regards

[@RustyBeauties]

Compressed air carries moisture. I am not a fan of this idea.

[@ronkluwe4875]

Elin - nice solution on the valve spring removal tool. One thing I did not see you do, and that I was taught to do when replacing valve collets, is to take a mallet and give each valve a sharp rap. This helps ensure the collet pieces are fully seated.

[@Mr1300SKIPPY]

Definitely a good lesson for each of us your followers ! We will never forget tu put valve springs in the correct direction ... Thanks Elin !

[@JimmyBComputerGuy]

That was great! Thanks!

[@charlesbaker4508]

Your mistakes are for our benefit when you choose to admit to them. Thanks Elin, your videos are both entertaining and informative! My TR6 springs aren’t like that so I have to ask; would they become coil bound if installed incorrectly?

[@RichardHeadGaming]

You should not have made gaskets but used permatex. If the material fails or squeezes out it can leave a bolt lose. Not to mention oil pressure loss, it is why there never was one from the factory. Many oil pumps never had gaskets for the same reason.

[@RustyBeauties]

I am not saying that you are wrong in this case, but in general the approach "if there wasn't one originally, don't put one" is not correct every time. In mass production many times in order to lower the cost little compromises are made here and there. We all know that Triumphs struggle with lubrication on the rocker shaft and every little improvement will be a step in the right way. You are probably right, the pedestal itself might be enough to seal, but a gasket wouldn't hurt. There isn't that much pressure to blow it and leave the pedestal hanging in the air.

[@RichardHeadGaming]

@@RustyBeauties lol ok.

[@malcolmlane-ley2044]

Just shows what a nice chap you are; most oily stuff channels I follow receive a lot of gratuitous criticism! Keep up the good work, the TR4 is a nice change.

[@snapon666]

Lucky for you you can change them where they are without pulling the head

[@philtucker1224]

Elin when I’m re assembling the valve springs and keepers (we call them collets in the U.K.) I normally give the valve a light tap on top with my nylon hammer just to settle the valve before setting tappet clearances. (I realise you will readjust them anyway after your first engine run so should be fine anyway). 👍

[@RustyBeauties]

Well, I used to do that until one day my collets flew away :) I just make sure visually they are in. When they are not seated properly it is quite obvious.

[@davidberlanny3308]

Hi Elin, well done I'm glad you were able to invent a solution so you didn't have to take the head off. I expect most of us following your channel will have done something wrong as well. My Spitfire tale of wo left me in a multi story car park with the gearbox locked up, both sets of gears were engaged at the same time, for some reason I hadn't fitted the interlock plate!! I was able to fix it in the same afternoon though after a taxi ride home and back!! Great video, good luck from Spain!!

[@iceman9678]

Nice save! You have a legion of smart viewers and subscribers.

[@jjmac3561]

Hi, happy to put you in the right direction. If the engine turns clockwise from the front, you have an alternator fan that is meant for anti-clockwise rotation.

[@RustyBeauties]

Thanks again! Regarding the cooling fan I know it looks that way and I questioned it in the past too, but each and every TR6 alternator I've seen has the same blade whether it is an original or after market alternator. And, yes, all triumph engines are turning clockwise. So somehow there is a science behind the madness of that blade which I don't understand.

[@jjmac3561]

@@RustyBeauties Seems very odd. It will push some air but it would be like swimming with your hands and fingers open instead of closed and cupped.

[@phensriwood8081]

No! No gaskets on pedestals. To much pressure on to small a area. Gaskets will hydraulic out.

[@RustyBeauties]

I don't think so. The pressure there is reduced to almost non existing and that is the reason why the shaft struggles for lubrication. You might be right that a gasket is not needed, but I don't think it would hurt. It would Hydraulic out only if there is a blockage somewhere after the gasket, but in that case a blown pedestal gasket would be the smallest problem this valvetrain would have.

[@andrepienaar6459]

Some guys pump up the cylinder through the plug hole with compressed air to keep the valves in place, to remove the valve springs as you did.

[@RustyBeauties]

I know, but compressed air always carries moisture… Not a great idea to pump water in the brands new cylinders

[@philtucker1224]

Ha ha I had visions then of Elin sweating away feverishly with a footpump whilst compressing the springs and replacing the keepers at the same time ha ha! ( would have made a great video though!) 🤣😂🤣😂

[@andrepienaar6459]

@@philtucker1224 yes! I can picture that! Haha!

[@andrepienaar6459]

@@RustyBeauties Yes, you have to think of everything! It is like walking through a minefield.

[@johnmoruzzi7236]

So for the rocker shaft pedestals you actually made gaskets, but didn't use Gasket Maker ???? 😏

[@Patrick-Inc]

Come on 19. !!

[@graemelliott3942]

I noticed something else but to may be nothing. The center head stud on the carburetor side sticks out longer above the nuts than the other head studs. Usually head studs are all the same length.

[@charlesbaker4508]

My 6 is like that and I’ve wondered if it is for ease of installation while getting the manifold hung on the head…

[@jamesworsham125]

I tried. Great recovery!

[@omphaloskeptic4989]

OMG! Elin made a mistake?!?! Oh NO, tell me it isn't so! As the famous TV painting instructor, Bob Ross used to say, “We don't make mistakes-we have happy accidents!”. Just to prove that it was a happy accident, you got the chance to make that special tool you've been wanting to make because of it! lol

[@jamesworsham125]

They make very small ball peen hammers that were designed just for making gaskets. The old fellas called them “gasket hammers.” Imagine that.

[@pbysome]

If the factory didn't fit gaskets don't fit them, the pressure loss would be negligible. If you ever taken the rocker cover off and run the engine you will know there will be oil everywhere.

[@RustyBeauties]

I am not saying that you are wrong in this case, but in general the approach "if there wasn't one originally, don't put one" is not correct every time. In mass production many times in order to lower the cost little compromises are made here and there. We all know that Triumphs struggle with lubrication on the rocker shaft and every little improvement will be a step in the right way. You are probably right, the pedestal itself might be enough to seal, but a gasket wouldn't hurt. There isn't that much pressure to blow it and leave the pedestal hanging in the air.

[@pbysome]

@@RustyBeauties gasket may introduce movement, if they where meant to be face to face. Who knows Elin many a slip twixt cup and lip.

[@RigelStudiosLasVegas]

OMG! YOU ARE SO CLEVER!

[@RustyBeauties]

Oh, thanks, but not my invention :) I just made something that I’ve seen before

[@peterwilson2588]

Hello Elin You are a champion at working out a solution - every time. A question that has been bugging me. Why are the valve collets and retaining collar different between exhaust and inlet on the TR6. The collets really stand out quite a way from the collar on the inlet compared to the exhaust collets which bed down almost flush in the collar.. Any ideas please. Best regards from New Zealand.

[@pda49184]

As Albert Einstein once said ; " Adversity is the mother of invention" .. What a brilliant solution Elin. You might not use your 'special' valve compressing tool again, but I'll bet you a pound to a pork chop someone's ass will be saved by nicking your design. 🤓.. My apologies for not shouting loud enough at the screen as I spotted your spring drama unfold but if the 'other half' ever cottoned on to my YT viewing habits I'd need a special tool to extract myself from the doghouse.

[@RustyBeauties]

Thanks! Well, it wasn't my invention. I used a tool like that before. I borrowed it from a friend when a nut holding the carb cleaner housing to the carb on my Lada came lose and fell inside the carb, made its way to the intake valve, made a mess of it and luckily fell inside the cylinder late enough, probably just before the engine died, so it didn't make damage there. I was able lap a new valve and save the engine, but that is how I removed and reinstalled the valve even though the head was out. So I am not a genius, I just made something that was already invented :) That was probably 25 years ago LOL

[@barry6274]

Thanks for the info. I guess i need to open up my TR6 and check because I didn't know this and could have them in various position. I may be looking to rent your tool.

[@pbysome]

Does it run ok?

[@barry6274]

@@pbysome yes, it's been great, just need a little more adjustment on the carbs. Have 115 miles on it since the engine rebuild.

[@pbysome]

@@barry6274 then don't fix what ain't broke, dual rate springs only really come into play at high revs, most triumph straight six owners rely on the torque not high revs. Springs still work whatever way up they are. Elin has to because it's a customer car, yours isn't. Enjoy.

[@barry6274]

@@pbysome thanks for the info.

[@RustyBeauties]

Don't worry, TR6 springs are reversible and can go either way. I am used to that and that is why I didn't pay attention here

[@stevebeland4101]

Why didn't you just use compressed air, piped into each combustion chamber via the spark plug entrance? Simple 1 foot piece of air hose. One end with a hollow threaded compatible spark plug end and the other end c/w an air quick/connect ? Easy peasy ! NOTE : (your cylinder head compression test kit has ALL of the relevant equipment needed)

[@RustyBeauties]

Compressed air carries lots if moisture!

[@stevebeland4101]

@@RustyBeauties A 2 minute fix per spring set ! That's how it was done in the late 1960's ! (You need a dryer on the comp, IF that be an issue for you) Cheers !

[@RichardHeadGaming]

Some comments from the Community are good, others should be taken with a grain of salt.

[@donprice9050]

Would it have run anyway?

[@RustyBeauties]

Oh, yeah, it wouldn't have ran and wouldn't be an issue in low RPM. They say that at high RPM, probably 4500 and above the valves could start bouncing and lead to premature wear on the camshaft. I can't imagine how that would happen, but since the engineers made it that way, they probably had a reason. I usually try to understand how things work and why they are made in certain way, I don't just blindly follow the manual, but in this case I am lost. So I just follow instructions.

[@MrWaalkman]

I thought that it was Chef's day to watch you. Sorry...

[@kge420]

Did you at least get one correct by chance?

[@RustyBeauties]

😂 yes, there was one intake with both springs correct. I still had to take it apart to find out :)

[@Horsleyclassics]

E Brake ? Surely you mean handbrake Elin (sorry to add to your misery) 😅

[@markrobinson8539]

I have never heard it called a pinball hammer. I think the expression is ball pein hammer or ball peen hammer.

[@RustyBeauties]

Yes, I corrected myself the second time I said it. It is a ball peen hammer. I am sorry, English is not my first language and not even the second one for that matter so I make mistakes. I also called one of the bushings a spacer at some point and realized that after the video was posted. Well, I am sure people know what I mean.

[@markrobinson8539]

@@RustyBeauties Your English is excellent - top notch. I like the term pinball hammer. I might use it in the future too.

[@chrissummers2689]

You need to patent the tool.

[@RustyBeauties]

Lol, it is not my invention. I just copied something that’s been out there before