1983 Porsche 928S Vs. Camaro Z28 | Retro Review

[@Motorweek]

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[@sincereroger605]

Instablaster.

[@ss_whole]

GM line worker: I'm outta fan belts Supervisor: Just use the Monte Carlo ones

[@manoman0]

...and they still run. 😅

[@rodmunch69]

These are reviewer cars - the belt probably broke and was replaced by some yahoo mechanic who used the wrong part. It didn't come from factory like that.

[@MB-rr1fb]

@@rodmunch69 The car was brand new, chances are the long racing put tension/rpm on the belt it wasn't tested for. I'm sure the Motorweek guys had the correct parts and skills to replace a belt on a 1983 car, lol

[@henrywashington3732]

Buick, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Chevy and Cadillac historically shared the same parts

[@johndrake2729]

And not the Vette's?

[@Swervin309]

It's weird seeing a Z/28 in this condition and not on blocks in the middle of a trailer park.

[@iant720]

Hahaha that's so accurate! That's coming from a thirdgen fan

[@feslerae]

Swervin309 Every z28 I've seen looks like a mad max car

[@DM-hw4cr]

My brother bought the RS version. Worst car he has ever owned.

[@michaelnesbitt4260]

The Porsche was on blocks in about 3 years . Or it was traded in and Porsche crushed it

[@dungdippedindian3933]

I saw one with rebuilt engine and trans for 3000cad no rust or dents it looks like a scam though

[@TheCanadianCyclist]

Gotta love a race track with a gravel entrance....

[@jabrother]

Yeah and I bet their track days didn't cost hundreds to attend either!

[@jonathanlth868]

Old days

[@mebeingU2]

It’s West Virginia, what do you expect.😊

[@chadm3985]

My favorite part was how they faulted the Porsche for having a road-racing transmission, while road-racing.

[@ethanconnor7530]

@War N Peace this comment is 4 years old lol .

[@Aroncare]

@War N Peace american cars suck, just acept it man

[@ethanconnor7530]

@War N Peace the euro spec 928 would dust the camaro america had the watered down version

[@ethanconnor7530]

@War N Peace the c8?

[@ethanconnor7530]

@War N Peace yeah looks pretty cool.

[@sonictech1000]

Now that's the 1980s GM quality I remember. New car came with the wrong fan belts!

[@KennyboyGM]

Bahahahaha

[@sonictech1000]

***** No I didn't test drive the car in the video which was supplied to the reviewers with the wrong belts.

[@stephenbianchi7141]

+sonictech1000 I am, based on your statement, shocked to hear you feel qualified to comment on this vehicle.

[@ODSTOninersIxTwO]

the wrong fan belts on a MotorWeek review car GM DONE FUCKED IT UP!

[@jackrabbit7389]

That’s ok I watched an episode of Top gear I believe it was a 2017 Aston Martin vanquish they were testing and it kept throwing the belt s off of it also. 4 times the belts flew off after being installed by Aston Martin service techs

[@stevend3753]

Chevrolet sends them a car with the wrong accessory belts. That about sums up GM quality of the entire 80's decade.

[@ParadoxdesignsOrg]

hahaha. truth.

[@ossimjew]

Grand national was the only good thing to come out of the 80's.

[@stevend3753]

I wish I could +1 ^ post more than once.

[@ossimjew]

Steven D GM has been talking about bringing it back and using the twin turbo V6 from the CTS-v sport, what a beast that would be!

[@ParadoxdesignsOrg]

hahaha. well the 80's were a different time.

[@peter455sd]

These Camaros were a monster hit back in the day,everybody was dreaming about owning one,and they sold like crazy

[@VaunShiz]

only that the Mustang did way better lol

[@ak3home]

+matthew von Ever hear of a Camaro 2 in the 70's based on the Vega? Enough said

[@bendsomemetal]

Lol the FB RX-7s were better

[@NYKgjl10]

+peter455sd And I still want to get It even to this day.....Love the Z28.

[@bendsomemetal]

+Felix M lol it was 139

[@madgreg5674]

I had a 89 iroc 5 litre 5 speed. Bought it new. Now I am 42 and have 87 Porsche 944 s 05 Mercedes c32 and they were awesome cars, but I have to say. No car is as much fun as my 89 iroc. I would abuse that iroc and it never left me stranded once. The sound of that v8 , burn outs drifting around corners, that car was awesome. I tried that stuff with my benz and the dash lit up like a Christmas tree and the tranny needed a $900.00 repair. I think todays car are over engineered and boring. Have an awesome day.

[@workingcountry1776]

Mad Greg that 89 had TPI right?? Those were supposed to be very quick

[@seththomas9105]

So you bought an 89 IROC brand new when you were 16? Damn I wish I had a dad or part time job in high school that would have let me spend that kind of scratch! I was 19 and running a 73 Z/28 I wish I still had.

[@caseycardenas1668]

Strong Tower Lawn Care of it was the "G92" code 5.0 5 speed iroc then yes it was very quick.

[@heytodd53074]

Wow

[@Turppa21]

Oh cmon that 944 has to be more fun to drive than a camaro

[@KKTR]

I bought a new Camaro Z28 High Output in 1984, fully loaded including 4 wheel disk brakes and T-Top. Five speed of course. $16,000. GM engineers at that time said true power output was more like 205. not 190. It literally handled like it was on rails. In one automotive magazine that I bought the reviewer said that it's clear the Camaro has gone to Corvette school. It had dealer-installed black rear window louvers which along with the deep red body color made it look exotic, like a 1983 Lotus Esprit. I had people approach me at red lights and in parking garages asking "What IS this car?!"

[@williamfreeman6935]

You are correct. Reasoning for the 190hp rating when it was 205hp was the newest model, completely revamped Corvette for 1984 was rated at 205hp. Chevy couldn't have their flagship sports car be upended by its little brother.

[@stoneylonesome5826]

@@williamfreeman6935 especially when the Vette had the 350 and the Z28 the 305.

[@stoneylonesome5826]

I remember Car and Driver voted that example of Z28 the best handling car in America.

[@Wardog614]

I had 1984 5.0 H.O. Z28 5 speed. I put a 5 gallon paint bucket lid in place of the the housing so that it had an extra inch of air intake around the edge. That thing woke up like holy smokes. My mechanic said that it was the fastest carbureted car he had ever driven…

[@jayski8082]

Man how I wish it was still 1983.😥

[@haroldbirge6881]

🐶I want to go back to 😎I need a 🍀 Time Machine✌️

[@Ididntaskforahandleyoutube]

No you don't. You'd lose the modern world with science and medicine to name but two. There were obviously much better aspects to life--i.e., politics j virtually every way (folks actually respected other people's thoughts and positions without wanting them dead if they were on the wrong, "team."), a lack of constant unjustified social upheaval that is bolstered by the most powerful amongst us, race relations were infinitely better, sexual insanity wasn't the norm, my Government wasn't corrupt from top to bottom. You could actually buy a house with one income and the Mother would stay home improving the quality of life for everyone, and on and on. Oh, cocaine was everywhere. lol Cheers

[@CSXT8250]

Good Find! What they said was true. I've had both. 928s are just so damn never-ending to maintain.

[@dcanmore]

pity the emissions equipment strangled the Porsche V8, same engine Euro spec in 1983 was 297hp and went up to 330hp in 1984. Final variant (GTS) pushed out 345hp.

[@nanoquark2946]

+dcanmore Haha, true. Plus equal weight distribution. Ect, ect. You really do get what you pay for but no car comes with free driving lessons. If they had sent a German driver, you would see it for what it is. Send those cars to Nurburgring and see how they compare.

[@nanoquark2946]

***** the weight distribution was likely the biggest problem, with the camaro, in this test. The driver couldn't keep it on the road. But none of this was very professional.

[@Devolont]

+Nano Quark None of it looked professional. haha I would mark this as a fun test. I wouldn't use this as a benchmark but when was the last time you saw one of those porches being driven? At least in my area I still see tons of third gens.

[@nanoquark2946]

Devin Dowless For some reason, this model wasn't very popular but It's my favorite. You definitely don't see many (with a manual transmission).

[@Devolont]

The sad thing is the T5 that was used, even the world class versions were weak and if you weren't careful with the shifts you would blow them. Luckily the T56 is a very easy swap.

[@nedaCFilms]

You'd think they could have found a Camaro with the 4-wheel disc option instead of rear drums, lol. Would have produced an even better time. The Camaro excelled on this track (Summit Point - my home track, lol) because of the stronger torque range down low. 1.38 seconds is good on this track, especially with a stock Camaro from 1983, lol. Great throwback Motorweek!

[@jpm408]

The Camaro excelled only because the testers knew how to drive it. He mentions in the beginning of the video that they had issues with the 1st gear and its odd layout giving the 928 a clear disadvantage on this day. An experienced German driver in the 928 on a familiar test track would have annihilated the Camaro.

[@nedaCFilms]

***** I should hope so for $45,000 vs $13,000 in 1983 lol. It's basically an exotic European V8 sports-car taking on a domestic blue collar V8 Pony-car. Summit Point is my home track so I know track times there and I was very surprised with the 1.38 time, especially with a non-J65 (4-wheel discs) optioned model..... but most people don't realize how well these 3rd Gen models handle and brake, they have a very capable and true MacPherson front suspension with panhard rod w/ torque arm at the rear..... and the 1LE optioned IROC-Z model uses the Corvette brakes. They dominated showroom stock racing in the later '80s (taking the title from Saleen)

[@jpm408]

nedaCFilms / Mustang-Town

[@nedaCFilms]

***** ....actually the fastest I have ever been in a car was 160mph way back in 1994, and it was a 1982 model gold special edition V8 powered Porches 928 heading to Maryland, the closest I've come to repeating that was in my old LT1 Camaro back around 2003 which was 150mph but it felt like it was able to climb a little more, but I didn't push it as many crazy thoughts were flying through my head lol, like just one tiny mistake, mishap or failure would end it all, lol. That's when I realized that I was getting old lol......

[@shawnk1899]

This test was is 89 and they used an 83 928. Major upgrades came in 86.5.. so it could go both ways

[@jezb9762]

How do so called professional drivers get confused with a dog leg first gear? Really?

[@deadkemper]

@Planet Purgatory Not just American ..EVERYONE....but it's not that hard to get i think his comment stands true

[@callumdonington2227]

Remember they were probably testing a dozen cars a month, and probably only got so much time with each car. No unlikely they got confused once or twice.

[@DavidB-rx3km]

The same people who get confused when they go between manual and auto - I have both, and I keep slamming my foot into where the clutch pedal should be on the auto car, and just stalling my manual because my mind is in auto mode. When you're used to one thing, it takes a while for your brain to adjust to the other.

[@davidparker9676]

@@DavidB-rx3km These guys drive multiple cars for a living, there is no excuse to get confused by a shifter that is not unique. I have even driven an Isuzu NPR truck with a dogleg transmission, a professional driver isn't very professional if they can't figure it out in a couple seconds.

[@DavidB-rx3km]

@@davidparker9676 They probably figure it out in a couple of seconds, going through a track with corners at 120mph - they're professional drivers, not professional-never-get-confused-by-new-things-person, that's only human. Maybe you should apply for the position if you don't get confused by these things.

[@8BitBrody]

4:34 "And now it's time for the Challenger..." Weird. You'd think John Davis would know that it's a Camaro...

[@AgeofJP]

"Challenger" as in the obviously inferior car that wants to prove itself against a proven "champion"...(don't take it literally)

[@michaelnesbitt4260]

The Camaro is the challenger to the Porsche in this comparison lol

[@justgoofingoff]

Sarcasm eludes some people..

[@NeoGee]

Considering the Challenger back in '83 was a rebadged Mitsubishi we can excuse him for being confused.

[@justgoofingoff]

@@user-yv1bf4rx7r exactly...

[@thomascampr]

I've owned an IROC and a 928s and Loved them both.

[@1SaG]

"Sounds absurd?" Yes .... yes it does. Also: 234 hp in a 928S? Man, America got duped on that one. Over here that engine made 300hp.

[@charliedevine6869]

You got a higher compression ratio.

[@nthgth]

Emissions regulations man

[@monsieurdubitatif8567]

320 hp in Canada

[@davidparker9676]

The tree huggers make sure the American consumers get screwed in every possible way.

[@rodmunch69]

...and that 305, with no emissions, would be making probably around 270hp in this era. It was all about the stupid emissions at the time. By the late 80s it wasn't that big of an issue, by from the late 70s and early 80s, it was a real deadzone for cars.

[@Porsche996driver]

John’s eyebrows going crazy in the intro. 😉

[@RhinoXpress]

I love these retro reviews thank you motor week, keep them coming!!!

[@Sanpedranoazul]

I´ve always thought both models are awesome and good looking!

[@kungfuninja55]

To be fair to the Porsche, it's dog leg gear pattern is actually designed for racing. On most circuits the driver will shift between first and second much less than between second and third. This means that downshifting for and upshifting out of second gear corners can be done much more easily and often more quickly too. Quite a few other European performance cars have this sort of gearbox too such as the Cosworth 190 and the Ferrari Testarossa. Yes, this configuration is unusual, especially for Americans and yes it may be more difficult to operate for newcomers but I don't think anyone should hold it against any car that features it.

[@2006gtobob]

I have owned (2) 928's, a grey market manual '82, and an American '84 with an automatic. I also owned, at the same time as the '84, an '82 Pontiac Trans Am with the cross fire fuel injection system that worked very well, no issues. AT NO TIME...EVER...could my Trans Am, in its stock form, compete with my Porsches...ever. It was beautiful, and I loved all of those cars, but there is no way that a Trans Am, which is basically a Z28 Camaro, could beat a 928. That Camaro must have been a ringer with a well tuned 350. Manufacturers were NOTORIOUS back in those days for sending out press cars with "special" engines for magazine tests.

[@MikeDunn]

The one in the vid is not crossfire shit.

[@elmuerte17]

The CFI system in the '82 Firebird made 165 HP, 15% less than the H.O. carburetted V8 in this video's Camaro, and if you had an automatic it would've been heavier and robbed more power.

[@JerryHenderson72]

They never made a manual 350 , Z28's got the 305 . Gen 4's got the 350 with a 6 speed manual , and if they used a 2001 Porsche an SS Camaro would beat that just as easy . A cam'ed LS1 Camaro will beat cars that cost 4 times as much , hell a brand new McLaren weights more than my 1995 Camaro . And power to weight ratio is pretty damn important if you wan't to go around corners .

[@leomonster1973]

Are you Saying the car that came with the wrong fan belt was a ringer? lol...I had an '83 305 HO Carburated Camaro. I beat the hell out of that thing for 125,000 miles. Fun car. But no Porche.

[@GregHuston]

@@JerryHenderson72 You're correct; BUT you could get an Automatic 5.7 IROC Z with "Tuned Port Injection". The t-5 that GM used couldn't handle the torque of a 350.

[@quincee3376]

I always liked the looks of the 928's , 924's and 944's .

[@BlitzkriegRap]

I only like the 928 facelifted cars. Older 928s, 924s and 944 not so much.

[@quincee3376]

@@BlitzkriegRap right on .

[@andrzejdomian460]

86 Iroc-Z owner here and gotta say this video made me even more proud to own a third gen camaro. I have the original LT1 from a 70 corvette with a th350 trans setup slight mods and let's just say that to this day even Porsche's fear me. No one wants to mess with a 400hp Iroc coupled with a 4th gen rear end and 3.73 gears. Awesome video.

[@hertzair1186]

Andrzej Domian : ....don’t think any current 911’s fear you, especially around a circuit

[@Epro95]

lol, okay, sure thing guy

[@rodmunch69]

I had a 2005 GTO for a while, and it had 400hp, and frankly my 2014 BMW 428i with 240hp would beat it to 60, no issue. Now from 60-to-120, the GTO would leave it in the dust. It was all about the way they geared the cars, and GM geared that 05 GTO to go from 60-120 really fast, but from 0-60 was well into 5s. Made no sense to me.

[@raymondturner6784]

Does the belt pop off constantly like in the video? GM built a LOT of lemons in the 1980's. Japanese rear wheel drives were probably the best cars of the 80's, especially the Supra and 300ZX. I like American cars, but emissions killed them then.

[@ztwntyn8]

@@rodmunch69 from what I’ve seen they are hard to launch with its IRS. A guy trued me in LS2 GTO but hit it when he was about 2 cars behind me from about 65. I saw it and reacted so he got by me and about 2 car gap but I nearly stopped his pull by around 100 in a 13.5 @104.. 71 For USA 400. I also ran a LS2 Vette automatic from 60-120 in my 73 Trans Am and that was dead even if anything I was starting to move on him but.. traffic and I have no overdrive lol. That’s fast enough to prove the point though no need to go past double the speed limit. ✌🏼

[@Bigsky1991]

I was stationed in Germany when the 928 came out... I had a 2nd hand 924 at the time. 2 Pilots in my Squadron had 928's because of the great Dollar to Deutsche Mark exchange rate. Cool looking for the time, but they were notorious for overheating and busted head gaskets. Trivia: the 928 is the car Tom Cruise let roll into a lake in the cult classic film "Risky Business "

[@kipb2078]

I knew Camaro could do it! I owned a 83 Z28 with T-tops. Loved that car.

[@victorcreed8856]

"Odd shift pattern with first gear down and to the left." That's to keep the most frequent shifts on the track opposite of each other. 1st is useless on a track and is only there to get rolling from a stop.

[@justinbig10]

He forgot to mention that the Camaro sounded better going around the track!

[@Hot80s]

true but a 928 with no mufflers has an insane v8 sound from it's 32 valves like the orig zr1 motor

[@justinbig10]

Hot80s With no muffler, wouldn't it sound crappy during low speeds?

[@davidparker9676]

Now that both of them are on cinder blocks, neither of them make any noise at all. It's too bad GM's quality was so terrible and Porsche's parts cost more than the car is worth. Both of these factors have caused these cars to disappear from the roads.

[@erod017]

A guy I worked with had a modded 80s 928 and it easily put my 87 firebird V8 to shame when it came to sound. But he never drove it due to reliability issues,where as I daily drive my firebird

[@afroarabian]

I thought MW was clearly biased; claiming how well the Camaro was, outperforming the 928 while at the same time the video was showing the Camaro struggling on the right turn, tires howling and fishtailing. That said, the numbers don't lie and I never thought the Camaro would keep up, let alone beat the Porsche. The real jaw-dropper was the fact that it cost 1/3 of the porsche. Throw a few bucks in to retune the suspension and the Camaro could add some needed stability in handling and knock of considerable seconds in time.

[@supercars6050]

they could have easily done double the speeds they did around corners. They are scared to push it to the limit because its performance is scary amazing

[@hertzair1186]

Ashraf Mohsen : yeah but you’d get the pretty girl with the 928...

[@manoman0]

That's how media distorts facts.

[@rootsinchristministries]

They admitted the shift pattern of the Porsches affected the lap time…. That’s not a cars limitation, that’s a driver limitation. This was clearly a biased assessment to me.

[@rodmunch69]

All the brownshirts mad about losing a car test in 1984. LOL!

[@vivalosdetonez666]

" this high output version makes 190hp" smh...facepalm

[@iant720]

H.O 80's smog style

[@highervibetribe9137]

Dude it was the early 80's... I lol'd at that too.

[@czarpeppers6250]

You think that's bad? My car's Oldsmobile 307 produces a whopping... 140 HP

[@TheMentalblockrock]

still faster than the 928 round the track though!

[@czarpeppers6250]

John Matthews I'm not sure its a very fair comparison. The Z28 is a sports car whereas the 928 is primarily a grand touring car. They're both cars I like quite a bit though. But if I had to choose between the Camaro and the 928 I'd get the... BMW 635csi. Also, I much prefer the second generation Camaro. Especially the ones that were made towards the end of their run. 1979-1981.

[@christopherd6399]

That 928 is still a gorgeous car. Timeless.

[@brentlanyon4654]

and the drivers in this video didn't know how to drive it...

[@jigrodrigues]

Thank you MW, these retro vids are true gems!

[@Acc0rd79]

Hey Motorweek, when are you going to make these retro throwbacks their own channel?

[@glennvallejo7670]

My dad has 928. A very fun car to say the least but extremely to repair. He had a 3000 brake job. The rotators should have been made of gold for that

[@v_alexiadis]

Poor guy couldn't drive a dog-leg gearbox :p

[@davidparker9676]

He's a "professional" driver that can't figure out a dogleg.......so sad.

[@summitpointmp]

We love seeing the track back in the day!

[@McRocket]

I owned an '84 Z/28 with the L69 motor (the one in the test) with the 5 speed (I ordered it new). I never raced a Porsche 928. But it's nice to know I could have given it a run for the money.

[@MagicAyrtonforever]

+McRocket No offence, but the Porsche would of won.. This review seems heavily biased.

[@nthgth]

@@MagicAyrtonforever "a run for the money" is an expression that means it would put up a decent fight, not that it would necessarily win.

[@A_Cowboy_called_JackRabbit]

This makes me pine for a certain SUPER clean '84 Z that used to make me smile back around 1990. She was white with gold trim and wheels, T-tops with their matching bag, tan interior with thin diagonal black stripes, white fuzzy dice installed by me, analog clock on the console, 305H.O./5spd, valve float, and enough carbon buildup to make her diesel if I didn't pat that Q-jet before shutting down. Up to 3500 revs, she ran quite well, and sounded sweeter than any other factory V8 of the time, in my personal opinion. The previous owner sold her to me with a Bra, and it all looked SO good with a wash and wax!

[@V8guy83]

Maybe I've been lucky, but some of the most reliable cars I had were 1980s GM. Had a 1985 Bonneville with a 3.8 v6. Went 380k miles before it was totaled. Still running but the nose got smashed and the frame bent :(

[@raymondturner6784]

The 3800 was great, but I remember many in the same predicament as the people in the video... Walking or pushing their vehicle somewhere. I can't believe the belt kept popping off.

[@scdevon]

Pretty embarrassing how a low compression, carbureted, pushrod smog V8 can dig in like that at low RPMs and whoop the Porsche.

[@yorgle11]

This version of the thirdgen Camaro - an 83-84 hardtop with the L69 engine option and man trans is exactly the model I'd most love to have if I were to buy one of these cars. The L69 was the last performance tweaked Camaro V8 to be based on a carburetor - after that carbs were only used on standard budget builds. Unlike the later L98 350 you could get the L69 with a manual, in fact the auto wasn't even offered with this engine until 84. Definitely my favorite version of the thirdgen, and maybe my favorite car period. I'm easy to please I guess, somebody else can have the Ferraris.

[@ruthylopez]

I had the EXACT 1984 L69 z28 that you describe. The 5 speed stick was SO MUCH faster than the automatic. I guess it was the 3.73 ratio. It was awesome. Handled great too. (I drove it into the ground as a stupid teenager. God I wish I still had it)

[@FL50ssp]

I like how the host makes excuses for the 928 when it is ~2 sec slower than the Z/28.

[@VAR1UM]

Their test car Z28 kept spittin' out fan belts?! Thats hilarious.

[@scdevon]

1982 was a a terrible year for GM cars. 305 engines were known for rounded off cam lobes at low miles back then. I'm glad the Chevy won, though.

[@DSC800]

At 6:20 "it doesn't prove the Z28 was superior to the 928S" well, if you want to win races, then yeah, it kinda does.

[@TheLordofShell]

Wrong belt on the Camaro means someone was messing around under the hood GM souped it up a bit for the press?

[@DZGunner]

I've actually owned both of these cars, which was wierd to find a video about them going head to head. I have to say, the difference between the cars is night and day, the 928 is just way more desirable in a lot of ways. Cool video though.

[@SavageListener]

My older brother had one of these Z28s. I remember the doors and the glass T-Top being very heavy. The car was nearly junk by the 1999. I'm surprised when I see one driving on the road today but they bring back memories.

[@jamesdeligio2761]

yes , thats why the engine fell apart idiot

[@tamapalagi]

The L69 305 was essentially a 305 L98 with a carb. These L69 305 Z28s are just as fast as L79 Chevelles from the mid 60s. I'm comparing stock from the dealer not tuned up versions.

[@joshuaecht]

That's the first I've heard of that! I believe you; interesting if true.

[@blackericdenice]

High output 5.0 V8 190hp. Guess my 04 4.2 straight 6 275hp would be Super High Output.

[@ossimjew]

That would be a Taurus SHO.

[@blackericdenice]

***** What's a Taurus?

[@ossimjew]

***** u trollin mate?

[@blackericdenice]

***** If u say so mate?

[@philtripe]

that would be a chevy vortec that puts out 275hp @6000 rpm...pretty impressive for a straight 6...and that sho taurus you found in your video probably had an sho exhaust put on a regular taurus because the sho was very very different than regular taurus and almost as fast as the mustang of its era...the sho motor was designed by yamaha and the first one they gave to ford put out about 300hp and ford gave it back and ask them to detune it because they could have a front driver being way faster than the mustang...long story short it took three tries for them to get down to the 220 hp they came with stock

[@timsimmons9995]

I had great memories in two different red Iroc Z28s in that era. They looked and felt crazy fast. But fast forward to modern times, I own a 392 Challenger boasting 475hp/475tq. I was curious to test Gen3 Camaro with an eye to buying it. I think it had around 175hp. That this was so gutless it couldn't even get out of its own way. It crushed my childhood memories. I own a Crown Vic that has more performance than this Z28. My how far we've come.

[@trex_hi5]

How in the hell did Motor Week not know what a dog leg gear box was?

[@KrustyKlown]

had the Z28 back in the 80's ... might go pick up an old 928S now, lol.

[@tidedownoutdoors5411]

I owned 3 different 3rd Gens in my day. For the money there was nothing that would perform like they did. They were also the biggest pieces of crap I've ever owned. Rattles, leaks, electrical issues and more. But I don't care! I honestly hope I get another one someday, I still love them!

[@rodmunch69]

Gens of what? Try writing in complete sentences you dope.

[@10rninjariderzx]

The belts used to come off my 1986 monte carlo ss. Maybe they put camaro belts on the monte lmao

[@igiveuponhumanity9238]

In other words, in classic '80s fashion, Chevy provided a highly-tuned hand-built bigger-cube engine in this 'random test car' and claimed it was 190hp like the rest.

[@raymondturner6784]

But the belts kept coming off 😆

[@mcqueenfanman]

I wonder what the 84 vette ran at this track?

[@sidefx996]

Probably didn't want to embarrass the Porsche that bad

[@nthgth]

Most likely a tad better than the Camaro. I think it weighed about the same, but it had a 350 and sports car suspension and brakes.

[@sidefx996]

@@nthgth I know when Chevrolet engineers screwed with the suspension settings an '84 Z51 Vette would pull over 1g. I think even right out of the box it would be more than a "tad" better than the Camaro... Car and Driver got .90g and said it was highest skidpad numbers they ever recorded (the 928 was 0.82g). It was a badass car for the time,which is why from '85-'87 they beat Porsche 29-0 in SCCA showroom stock GT and were actually banned because of it and forced to race against themselves in Corvette Challenge. But you won't hear about that stuff on Top Gear...

[@nthgth]

@@sidefx996 oh wow I didn't know that at all. No wonder the C4 is starting to get a lot of love these days. And of course the snobs wouldn't want that to get out if they could help it.

[@nthgth]

@@sidefx996 oh wow I didn't know that at all. No wonder the C4 is starting to get a lot of love these days. And of course the snobs wouldn't want that to get out if they could help it.

[@mitchellpak1666]

The Porsche's V8 made 234 hp. The 2017 Ford Escape with the 2.0 litre 4 cylinder engine makes 245 hp. Many sixes today surpass 300 hp. That's progress.

[@borrachoblanco]

torque??

[@alkoyyy]

the 4.7 liter v8 in the european version made 310hp. and most of todays enginges are turbocharged, that's cheating! :P But yeah, obviously engines have become a lot more efficient in every way :)

[@JisINSANE3]

Yeah that's a lye. Car manufactures are trying everything to sell cars. Including telling bogus HP ratings. There ratings are from 130octane gas with no emissions devices, No computers, and a quick 10 second burn on a carb before the engine needs rebuilt after... EPA sucks ass.

[@workingcountry1776]

Mitchell Pak totally different. A 160 hp 300 cubic inch straight six could move a 30,000 farm/dump truck...

[@WhoThisGuy515]

Strong tower lawn care, yeah unloaded, with a 4 speed, 4.88 or 5.13 gears, at 45mph. The 300 made low 200 lbs of torque at 1600rpm, anything over 45 and it struggled hard to move it's self.

[@RedLP5000S]

Third gens are my favorite. Imagine if the Porsche went up against an IROC-Z28!

[@BerryA86]

Is it just me or does John Davis resemble Sam Kinison here?

[@nedaCFilms]

Lol!!!!!!

[@davidrobson9011]

Good call Ace.

[@BerryA86]

@@davidrobson9011 I forgot all about this comment. It is odd seeing Sam speak formally and properly

[@ToriL97]

I own an 83 Z and this makes me so happy to watch. Only thing different is this ones lack of rust and it's a hardtop.

[@SpyderRios]

12 seconds faster than the previous Z28? something tells me the Z28 was a ringer.

[@mcqueenfanman]

45 hp increase helps a lot. More if you ran premium in the L-69.

[@htimsid]

Other than for the initial launch, would first gear be used on such a race-track? It seems remarkable that drivers would prefer the Camaro but it would depend on their mood at the time. Perhaps the Camaro seemed more 'fun' on the track. Also odd is that the 928 is described as being a 'handful' yet it was the Camaro which occasionally spun. The 928 is so much more sophisticated in terms of design and build.

[@Newstatejournal1]

What I would like to know is: why the smaller 928 with its aluminum engine and body, is the heavier car?

[@alkoyyy]

because it's a luxury gt-cat not actually a pure sportscar. if you want that you should go for the 944

[@mercedescl]

Because Camaro has solid rear axle, drum brakes, fiber glass components, and OHC V8 design. Lack of standard air condition, leather interior, and proper sound deadening materials help too.

[@Tommyblueeyes]

Thats not a sportscar either like the 911. it was a sporty coupe rather.

[@Tommyblueeyes]

The 928 is shorter but just as wide and 1cm taller actually.

[@nthgth]

The Camaro's engine was not OHC, it used pushrods. (But that is part of why it's lighter)

[@jamesconroy7030]

Wow, I used to go to Summit Point with my Dad back in the 90s when he raced AHRMA road bikes.

[@daverunner3397]

The 928 is the most gorgeous shape ever designed, just me.

[@jakekaywell5972]

I disagree, but you do you. For me, it would have to be the Studebaker Hawk series. Gentle, Euro-esque curves but enough chrome trappings to make it worthwhile!

[@rhull3939]

Just you. I think it's more ugly everytime a see it. It looks like a snake with it's eyes on top of it's head. It just looks wrong to me. That Camaro is the good looking car here.

[@andrestrishak8292]

It is just you

[@dperr338]

How does a new car come with the wrong belts?

[@billybobjoe198]

The transmission layout shouldn't be effecting your lap times. The terrible syncros should be effecting your lap times. Driving a dog leg is just like driving any 6 speed just never using first.

[@nutsackmania]

billybobjoe198 What? The dog leg is not like ordinary six speeds. It's 1, 23, 45. A typical six speed is 12, 34, 56. My first drive in a 931 took some time to adjust, so they have a point.

[@GlassTopRX7]

That really depends. Moving the trans to the rear clearly improved the Corvettes handling by giving it 50/50.

[@nthgth]

They literally said it didn't end up mattering

[@fifty-50garage70]

Is there any possible way to know the VIN of the 928 used in this test? I have an 83 in Kiln Red and am curious.

[@buzzshavinutts8898]

the camaro definitely had the kind of appeal for beer guzzling mullet boys with their shirt sleeves cut off.

[@bigdaddyvince182]

Phil Lehmkuhl Oh, so that explains why I like it so much! :)

[@ODSTOninersIxTwO]

till u realized it has the wrong fan belt.

[@nthgth]

2003 called, it wants its stupid cliches back

[@rya3190]

I'd tell you beer tastes like piss, but I feel like that's besides the point...

[@ToddLloyd]

John Davis' outfit looks surprisingly contemporary in this old video.

[@Andrew14312018]

Sounds like they were flummoxed by the Porsche gearbox.

[@1QKGLH]

Is the unique placement of 1st gear really a big deal? I mean, are you downshifting to 1st on a track?

[@henryatkinson1479]

Maybe if they had a driver that could use a gearbox with the correct shift pattern they would have an actual result...

[@MarkMeadows90]

I would never feel the same way again after Jeremy Clarkson talked about his time in a Porsche 928. Kinda emotional if you ask me. If you're wondering why, check out the Top Gear Christmas/Patagonia Special.

[@hertzair1186]

...I’ll save everyone the time...basically Jeremy loved the 928 for getting him at high-speed to see his ill father just before he passed on.

[@Rampant_Colt]

I feel like getting a mullet haircut all of a sudden

[@spankthemonkey3437]

Authorized Personnel let it grow

[@thewaragainstcars]

Duh.

[@FrankOlsonTwins]

Good matchup! But they REALLY didn't want to say the Z28 was better than the Porsche!

[@cargo4441]

The last roar of the qudra jet carb

[@adamtrombino106]

Yes, in 88 on some GM models. The Monte Carlo with both G and H code engines come to mind, as well as various 307 Y code Olds engines. Even Chrysler used them from 85-89 on M bodied cop cars. When set up right, they were respectable performers.

[@silicon212]

Wrong. 1988 on the Caprice. Any vehicle with the Olds 307 had them through the discontinuation of that engine, at the conclusion of the 1990 model year.

[@spokes5201]

With the experience I have with both platforms, there are things I love and hate about either car. How about that drifting @ 4:55 though? Respect. Also, I'm pretty sure the Camaro had an electric fan in '83. What they were probably throwing off was the alternator belt which was due to mis-alignment and had a recall that was supposed to be taken care of during the PDI right off the car carrier. Funny thing about the Porsches I did timing belts and water pumps on is that most of them had those funky perforated zip-ties holding a LOT of cowling and access panels on the underside. I thought the first one was a fluke, then it kept happening. The 928's have a beautiful exhaust note with a Borla, and I actually prefer the transmission pattern. But those damn headlights in person always turned me off and stopped me when I was about to buy one with the newer 911 wheels (that look somehow balances out the lines of the hatch). To each their own, but for a daily driver in 2017? I'd have to go with an LS swapped 3rd gen. Probably an 87-90 with black interior with the 85-87 style aftermarket 18" IROC wheels and a T-56 would be the best car to build under 10 grand right now. BMW E36 headlights look good in them too. Google any of that if you are a fan of either of these cars.

[@thequesomanishere]

Talk all the shit about American cars you want, but at the end of the day, a German sports car was slower than an American car that was 1/3 of the price.

[@DANNY40379]

+Mike Borraccia you get the babes with the Porsche, with Chevrolet not so much

[@thequesomanishere]

+Dan Dan real men don't need a cool car to pick up babes.

[@starbattles1]

+Mike Borraccia what do you do? Pay for them?

[@paulhunter123]

+Mike Borraccia it could go round a bend however

[@highervibetribe9137]

Nobody is talking shit, and that was the drivers fault. The 928 was the fastest car sold in the U. A. In 1983, the fastest production car in the world in 1986 with the 928 S4 breaking the world record at the salt flats, and I believe it broke another record a week or so later in Italy going about 182 mph. It was a very high quality, over engineered car. You get what you pay for. Only 911 purists killed it off because it was everything a Porsche wasn't supposed to be. They called it the German Corvette. Porsche weren't supposed to have V8's and certainly not in the front. It was a bad ass car, and if you research C4 corvettes you'll find that their datapoint was the 928, the C5 even stole its transaxle design.

[@mak62183]

i love these ol' school videos!

[@subrosaBalumNL]

havent started the video yet but this should be hilarious

[@subrosaBalumNL]

+subrosasalvador2011 yup hilarious

[@rickjohansson4257]

My friend had this exact model Camaro. He had the longest Chevy warranty ever on account of his talent in turning odometers back.

[@CoolHandJames]

Crazy how dated that Camaro looks compared to the Porsche, considering how its 4 years younger.

[@mak450]

They're both pretty old looking if you ask me, neither one moreso than the other.

[@CoolHandJames]

Porsche is a classic. Chevy looks like it was built in a barn by morons. Which is was, because GM.

[@mak450]

JG L Yup that's all completely true just because you say it is. I just wonder who the moron is when some guy spends what was the price $45k+ on a car to get blown off the track by a car costing about a third as much, and then regularly has to drop 4 figures to repair and maintain said $45k+ car.

[@theyhatehimbecausehetoldth7576]

JG L the camaro looks worlds better than that Porsche

[@larrshinshin7606]

The only thing I look at is track times bro. Hope 928 owner like z28 bumpers cuz that is all they gonna see.

[@artguess9893]

I have an 83 Camaro Z28, love it drive it every day. It needs work on little things but the 350 in it is amazing fun to drive. It handles like an oversized racing go cart lol!

[@mrwp819300]

What are the specs on the 350 you put in it?

[@rickintexas1584]

190 hp? How sad. I can’t believe the Z28 beat the Porsche.

[@rodmunch69]

What's said is getting like 220hp for $40k - and then losing to the 190hp for $13k.

[@geminihi-fi7939]

I still think the drivers of the 928 should have actually drove the 928 as hard as they did the camero lmfao

[@LegendsXXX2]

1/3rd the cost, but the same performance, good times

[@Tigerfire75]

So the Jaguar XJ-S wasn't sold in the US that year?

[@shaunjones3036]

They should bring back the 928

[@johndrake2729]

Yep. They need to.

[@McRocket]

Great video. ✌️

[@falseteeth5621]

Was that track laid by an old woman who had only laid garden paths before she tackled this circuit?

[@steverocca9911]

+False Teeth I was thinking that when i saw them driving across gravel to get to the track. Too bad if they were dedicated race cars.

[@jjs777fzr]

@6:05 I’m betting if I had $37k extra to play with I could improve the stopping power of those Z28 brakes and reduce the lap times to an even more significant extent. Love both the 928 and Z28 of this period. Too bad they didn’t do a follow up in 1988 with the Formula 350 vs the 928s4 or 911. Or to make it more fun take the ‘89 TTA vs the 911 turbo.

[@gearyheidinewaccount3237]

4 wheel discs were an option

[@Brian-ee1gx]

Sounds about right. GM sends them a neutered Z28 w/drum brakes & the gutless carburated motor, and it still beats the Porsche.

[@golgothapro]

That start-up sample is pure dope. LOL

[@c32amgftw]

So this car ran 12 freaking seconds faster than the same car did a year earlier???? It's so obvious gm gave you a tuned up car to beat the Porsche.

[@TeeroyHammermill]

>c32amgftw: nah. The 82 Z28 only made 145hp with the standard gearbox. I doubt they used the auto version; and even if they did, it was a 3 speed with 165hp-still a slow ass car.

[@chrisylink]

My dad had a 86 928. Beautiful and fast car. It was auto I remember it doing over 80mph in second gear.

[@CalgaryRambler]

I've been reading most of the comments down here and I get a laugh you guys really crack me up your comparisons are from two separate generations the 80s vs the 90s in the video it showed two cars from 1984-85 yet the comparison that you people keep showing are from the 1996 LS1 and Beyond although these are good they have nothing to do with what happened in 1984 all we can say is the mechanical promise of the GM product it improve over time but that was just that they had to learn and learn they did except for the quality long term for their product IE interior the bottom line in this video is this the Porsche was not driven correctly the narrator even said the drivers were scared to push his car that was their mistake and as far as the numbers go the majority of these old Camaros are sitting in trailer parks rusting away with their now balded mullet head owners all geriatric and ready for the old folks home the Porsches because of the quality are being restored back to their former glory and even enhanced in many cases just take a look around you too but some of the videos and you'll see what I mean enough said

[@TeeroyHammermill]

>Calgary Rambler: The last time I saw one of those 80's Porches, it was for sale on a car repair shop lot. The mechanic was asking $1800 for it and it took almost a year to get it sold. I lived across the street from the shop so I watched it sit and sit. No one wants those 80's Porches.

[@rodmunch69]

Those Camaros actually were driven - those Porches just sat in a garage. Now go back to humping your cattle you silly fruit.

[@Katzekraus5]

Where did they find either of these in a stick shift?

[@BuzzLOLOL]

$45K car vs $13K car...

[@uzielgutz7188]

It showed

[@davidparker9676]

@@uzielgutz7188 The guys at GM prepped the car with some "custom" fan belts.