1984 Star Michael Jordan: Can Money Rewrite History?

[@CardReaperShow]

Type 2 production was only for the 1985 set. Not 1983 or 1984. Licensing and print year are not just a part of the equation it’s a HUGE portion of the equation. The argument of distribution is a fair one and part of the equation. The 1986 Fleer Jordan WILL ALWAYS be the most iconic and influential Jordan card. In the 80s and 90s to see the star 101 was like seeing a Sasquatch, whereas the 1986 fleer was not, so it was much easier to refer to the 1986 Fleer as the rookie because of its availability. That is also part of the equation. The controversy is STEMMING from the meteoric rise of the 1984 Star, as anything involving money will have its controversies. Fact is it’s rarity especially in a decent grade, and the recent acceptance by PSA is what’s driving its rise. That, coupled with, big Jordan collectors are hoarders, and many of them have big money and don’t care to sell their Jordan cards. The availability of the Star Jordan in a PSA 7 or higher grade will be nearly impossible to come across where the 1986 fleer will never be impossible to come across in a decent grade. The poor card stock, the color bleeding, the diamond cuts, the corner and edge sensitivity all play a huge factor as well. There will never be a PSA 10, never, that is also part of the equation. What’s the true rookie? That will be debated forever just like who’s the GOAT in basketball. Point is they both have arguments for “rookie” status, but the Fleer will never be as valuable as the Star, just like the Star will never be as ICONIC as the Fleer

[@true_rcs]

What an amazing summation of this issue. Thank you for sharing your astute thoughts and for tuning in. I will be pinning this comment because I want it to be at the top of the comment section 👍🏽

[@JQM78]

I am 46, born and raised in Chicago (West Lakeview, 7 blocks from Wrigley Field, and about 10 minutes Northwest of the United Center). I began collecting in 1985. By 1991 I was a card dealer & worked at a Card shop, in Palatine. To me, and my coworkers; and the people that did shows back then and through the early 90’s, the 1984 Star Jordan 101 was always the more sought-after & valuable card, vs the 1986 Fleer. The 1986 Fleer was also very respected, but I don’t recall the card being any more “valuable” until the pandemic when influencers & auction houses hyped them up, and in PSA 10 condition, they sold for 100’s of thousands of dollars (which with how many are on the population report, could NEVER sustain those price heights. The Star Card was still as valuable, but there arent enough to compare sales wise, and at the time only BGS graded them. Also, The “facts” you’re talking about are not facts at all. Type 2’s only occurred for the ‘85-‘86 Star set, not the 1984 set that MJs rookie is in. Once PSA started again grading them, it was only a matter of time until we would start to see record sales. Everything has evolved up until now; where a PSA 9 101 sells for $925k & even more recently, a PSA 7 on PWCC sold for $50k this past weekend. The 1984 Star Card was printed in bis rookie year & is his true rookie.

[@true_rcs]

I respectfully disagree. The overall concesus in the hobby referred to the 86 Fleer as the RC for decades but now the privileged want to rewrite history. I’m looking to compromise but many Star 101 fans refuse to accept even an *RC for both cards. Not that big a deal though, everyone has a right to their opinion and mountain to stand on. Good thing about it is, I have that same right. I appreciate you tuning in and sharing your insights. 👍🏼

[@bkeissami]

Disagree with FACTS makes u ignorant. The sky is blue and pigs can’t fly are facts so how can you respectfully disagree with the truth. That alone makes you uneducated on this specific subject. Don’t weigh in unless you truly know the historical attributes of the Star 101 vs the Fleer.

[@mikethibault31]

The 84 Star is his rookie card. It was licensed and that’s the end of the story. The Fleer came out 2 years after his rookie season. Love the Fleer, but it’s not his rookie card.

[@true_rcs]

Respectfully disagree with you Michael and that's the end of the story. 👍🏼

[@jamesnguyen7069]

any rookie card that has been printing for more than 3 years is not a rookie card. keep printing though.

[@bam92027]

I didn't hear any mention of the card being officially licensed by the NBA in your video but it clearly states this fact on the back of Jordan's Star 1984 card. The Fleer 1986 card is a much more iconic and enjoyable shot of Jordan gliding through the air though. If the photos were changed between the cards, I think the public would have embraced the Star card much earlier as the true rookie card.

[@bpowerspro]

Both are killer cards. Star for the rarity/ investment aspect and Fleer for the iconic-ness and just overall cool card. Have both and I think most Jordan 80s collectors cherish both instead of picking sides.

[@true_rcs]

Good insights here thanks for sharing 👍🏼

[@jamesnguyen7069]

we dont know how many stars there are. could be more hiding "secretly"

[@bpowerspro]

@@jamesnguyen7069 They’ve said the same about the 52 mantle for over 60 years. The pop report would’ve exploded since Covid if that was true, like the 86 fleer graded pop did.

[@thebatterycarlylerood]

I feel like Michael Jordon does NOT have a rookie card. It's a first Fleer card. He started playing professionally in the NBA two seasons earlier. By the same token, 1981 Donruss is not Jack Nicklaus's rookie card. He won his first professional major in 1962: nineteen years earlier! Not everyone has a rookie card. The market can pay whatever they want for whichever card they want. Having said all that, my official position on Michael Jordan's rookie card is this: Meh. Also, our disagreement will go a lot more smoothly if you just tell me that I'm right and you're wrong. ;-)

[@true_rcs]

🤣👍🏼 thanks for tuning in!🤣

[@honust2069]

The concerning part is Star card grading was proprietary to beckett for years. Home shopping network sold reprints of them that nobody could tell the difference in early 90s.

[@true_rcs]

Yeah, the powers at PSA flipping the script 30+ years later is not cool. 👍🏼

[@bkeissami]

Once again you are spewing 🗑️. The HSN was selling images cards of Jordan, but not one was a 101. Once again u need to be seriously educated before you talk on a subject.

[@ryanorourke9487]

Okay, small disagreement. I think the *rc compromise is inconsistent with what you said leading up to that. The star card was not a pack pulled major release and so is plainly not a rookie card. Just like all the junk era extended sets and just like the obscure releases of guys like Jackie Robinson and Stan Musial. It’s kinda always been that way. The fact that one guy spent a lot of money for a particular card has nothing to do with whether that card is a rc. 52 Mantles are definitely not rookie cards, and every legitimate source agrees, despite the fact that they sell for more.

[@true_rcs]

Well said I meant to refer to this point and forgot to in the video. It can sell for 10 million and that has no bearing on it being MJs true rc. The *RC is concept is a fair compromise IMO. I really dislike the XRC identifier on this Star card because this means that it came from an extended or traded box set and that was not the case. Appreciate your insight and tuning in. Cheers!

[@ryanorourke9487]

@@true_rcs I understand havingdiscomfort with xrc, but however we label that card shouldn’t change the fact that 1986 is the only rc. Just like a 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson isn’t a rc, or a 1946 Musial propaganda. If a card that clearly doesn’t pass the rc test exists, we can call it xrc or something else, but it isn’t a rc and doesn’t make the real rookie card less of a rc, imo.

[@jimmy_iKoN]

The star 101 wasn’t a nationally distributed product and that’s the big problem. Not to mention the card came in a team bag. The Fleer is the true rookie.

[@true_rcs]

Well said Jimmy. I'm thinking the same way.

[@antwill3680]

At the end of the day, the 84 Star is his first card. It’s perfectly fine to say that the 86 fleer was his first true rookie card but for the greatest of all time, there is value to his first card. Nothing will diminish the iconic 86 fleer but it will never be his first true sports card.

[@true_rcs]

Thanks for sharing and tuning in! 👍🏼

[@blixcards]

I understand both sides of the debate. I respect Dr. Beckett highly and his RC system was an excellent measure to go by for collectors - before eBay. After eBay grew a bit, it no longer is true that certain cards are only regional. The pack-pulled rule was great while it was necessary. The XRC tag is no longer relevant either to me. We can all find these cards on any given day now. I feel like any licensed first card, especially in modern, should be a RC because of that fact alone. After the RC logo, no debate unless you're a Bowman 1st guy. Obviously, there are exceptions all around like anything else. This is one topic I truly hope everyone disagrees with me on!

[@true_rcs]

Very well said! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and tuning in 👍🏼

[@blixcards]

@@true_rcs You bet! There are good points all around and you present them all well.

[@boobooboogoo]

Yep ebay was a game changer

[@cantoncardcollector1512]

That’s right! The people trying to rewrite card history probably bought a bunch of Star Jordans & now there trying to cash out.

[@true_rcs]

I know for a fact this was the strategy by some in the late 80s early 90s. Good to see you checking out the video, thank you 👍🏼

[@cantoncardcollector1512]

@@true_rcs History tends to repeat itself. Market manipulation =$$$. That private Jordan sale could have been falsely reported to give the Star Jordan prices a boost & a spark the hobby needs to start trending up.

[@carsyncruz]

Unpopular opinion; I think they're both pretty significant. Two cards the majority of collectors can't afford. The people that owned the star or multiple of them most likely got burned overpaying for the fleer the last 4 years so they are pumping the star to dump it.

[@true_rcs]

Thanks for sharing your take on this. I can agree with both are significant

[@cardboardandplastic]

If the majority of people think that the 1984 Star 101 his true rookie card, its market cap of all copies should be higher than the 1986 Fleer card. A couple of big sales is just scarcity and some people wanting to change the narrative for their own profit.

[@true_rcs]

Well said! Thanks for sharing this insight and for tuning in!

[@vintagecollector5340]

Well, keep watching....because that market cap is rising fast.

[@cardboardandplastic]

@@vintagecollector5340 The market cap can't rise that much since there is a limited supply of those cards. Even if every card doubles, the market cap would be a few percent of the 1986 Fleer. The Star 101 Jordan is being pumped by wealthy influencers. It is out of the price range of most collectors.

[@RawJordanCardCollector]

Love the video and I’ve been arguing some of these same points for a while now. The 84 Star 101 was a mythical card to me when I was a kid, not being able to see one. Limited distribution, low print runs and holders made it hard to get. I wanted one as a kid but couldn’t get one until much later as an adult. Both have their issues but both are rookie cards and there is no reason not to love them both.

[@true_rcs]

This is a great take. Thanks for sharing and for tuning in! 👍🏼

[@freedomfight1933]

INCORRECT about "re-writing history" if you grew up in Chi and was a huge card collector and Bulls fan back then (like i did) you would know that in the beginning (and up unitl early 90s) people just called them both his RC, but EVERYONE knew the Star 101 was his better RC. Beckett magazine is the one that changed that later with the "X" and tried to "re-write" history. Also, you saying type 2 counterfeits "fact" and then saying later you know it doesn't apply to the 84' 101, but whatever is hilariously dumb 😂

[@true_rcs]

Thanks for sharing your opinion with me. Appreciate you checking out the video 👍🏽

[@freedomfight1933]

​@true_rcs The Star cards were available to everyone. Just in a different way than a mass produced random pack with gum. But that doesn't define an RC and you know other people have widely accepted RCs that were distributed in different ways. Also, Star did that due to market demand, so that's the most natural thing there is. The free market didn't have a ton of interest in basketball cards during Jordan's rookie year. It wasn't just that Star Co wanted to be weird. I think it's obvious that a lot of people want the Fleer to be his RC because so many more people (30-40x) own them. But players now have like 50 RCs anyway, so the question is not really what is the one true and only RC. It's which one is the better RC. And the answer to that is obviously the Star 101. Not only that but it's possibly the most under priced card out there from an investment stand point. We've just scratched the surface of the price potential for the Star RC. That card in very high grades will be in the millions, possibly within a few years.

[@Ready4Wednesday]

So glad you went on with Mike so i could find your channel. Love your content👍

[@true_rcs]

Woohoo! Welcome aboard and thank you! 👍🏼

[@pauloatienza1454]

Love this video. The arrogance of today’s culture of throwing away the old context because today’s criteria is “better”; then try to apply that to the past. It’s like revoking an oscar award from a past winner and giving it to another nominee because we decided the standards of what good acting today is better. Also, if availability was indeed a criteria in the past, as MJ is a global icon; availability should be considered beyond the US. We had no access to star in the 80s in asia, and we are equally passionate fans. We all grew up with fleer as the rookie, and it always will be. And in the same breath i celebrate that star is getting attention! We can do that without rewriting history.

[@true_rcs]

Very well said, thanks for sharing such discerning insight! I love the oscar award analogy, couldn't have said it better myself. Appreciate you tuning in.

[@CommercialFreeShow]

Two types of hobbyist. One will collect HISTORY and pass it down. (You are this type sir) The other with SELL history for as much as they can.

[@true_rcs]

Sounds about right, it's the shenanigans played when selling history that irritates me.

[@leehaskins307]

of course the 86 fleer jordan is the rookie.. alot of newbies trying to make money are trying to change that.. it wont happen… the star cards are great cards and I own both jordan cards.. but I certainly konw the 86 fleer is his true rookie card… no question

[@true_rcs]

Strong testimony here Lee! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for tuning in.

[@97camiro]

The 1984 star 101 is jordans TRUE rookie card! I know the dealing was unconventional. But they were licensed by the NBA, and the only card company selling basketball cards. Jordans 86 fleer, is technically jordans 3rd year card! Whats next that beckett needs to update from the 80s is the outdated "xrc" signia. Now that PSA has started regrading star cards, prices have gone through the roof! And you can thank PSA for the price hikes. Expect jordans 101 to hit the million dollar mark soon. Its pretty much surpassed jordans fleer. What i cant believe is collectors have slept on this card for 38 years! Its time...

[@true_rcs]

Thanks for sharing your opinion and tuning in 👍🏼

[@jaybarnes8034]

Wish the Star cards came in packs only.

[@true_rcs]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Jay, and for tuning in! 👍🏼

[@MrJmangini]

😂 these influencers have been pumping this card. I guarantee a few people got together to sell this to each other to drive the price up so they can sell their others just like Vegas Dave did with his Mike Trout. Good for them. They get rich taking advantage of us hobbyists.

[@true_rcs]

Great points John! We've seen this pump and dump scheme before. Appreciate you tuning in!

[@CommercialFreeShow]

The fact the hobby is trusting Jessie Craig on this recent sales comp. Jesse Craig was part of repack scam. Hero of sports.

[@vintagecollector5340]

Is it really taking advantage of anyone if they're willing to pay the price to own it?

[@JasonUrsaner]

This was a great video - there are other questions/issues that weren't touched on, but *RC is absolutely the right way to look at it / compromise

[@true_rcs]

Thanks Jason. It's logical and fair but the Star community didn't like it. They wanted me to denounce the Fleer and claim the Star as the true rc but I was unwilling to do that. Appreciate you tuning, glad you enjoyed the video 👍

[@JasonUrsaner]

@@true_rcs I get that, but I think the *RC is a much more civilized / nicer alternative to saying it is a silly debate. Both are amazing cards with a lot of merit for why they hold a very important place in the hobby. It isn't really re-writing history either... the Star 101 was always an important card... it just isn't really a rookie card because was never in packs and is essentially a regional/team issue - whether it was his first licensed card or not. It doesn't have the same history... Star does have reputational issues similar to like Pacific - even if those issues don't directly apply to that card/set... and I wouldn't even really call it a 1984... says 1985 right on the damn card, just like the other Star subsets do. Otherwise should call them all 1984-1985. The 1986 Fleer will always be the iconic mass-market "rookie card" ... that is never going away. *RC solves a lot of problems!

[@justinbordner6528]

This debate reminds of the 51 Bowman visa viz the 52 Topps Mantle rookies.

[@true_rcs]

Yes! To me as well. Thanks for tuning in!

[@toddyvelasco9467]

Hi, my uncle have this card. Starr Co. reprint 24 of 50 mj rookie card. Where can we sell this card? Thanks

[@true_rcs]

I would try at a local card shop they will help assist you.

[@toddyvelasco9467]

@@true_rcs any idea how much is tha value of this card? Where can we go so they can grade the card? Thanks

[@ACollectorsDream]

Great video, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Agree with you about this.

[@true_rcs]

At least there's one person. Appreciate you brother Orlando 👍🏼

[@brettfry5901]

Interesting video. Seems like another case of how someone can make some more $ with the star cards. Sad that a lot of people are only in it for money and could care 0% about collecting

[@true_rcs]

I can agree. Seems like money is the primary driver for many. I appreciate you tuning in.

[@dropballbrenan]

The small group of star group card guys systematically pumping their cards is getting out of control . Goes to show how a limited quantity product line can be artificially manipulated by the people holding most of the stock . Just awful

[@true_rcs]

Wow! Very well said, thanks for sharing this insight and for tuning in 👍

[@dropballbrenan]

The real hobbyists appreciate your Replies on the pages . Don’t worry about the realestate sales guys pumping the star team bags

[@Jason-wx6lj]

Another solid video Victor! Appreciate you!

[@true_rcs]

Thank you Jason 👍🏼👊🏼

[@Hodges1455]

Gave a video like - Enjoyed hearing your thoughts as always, Victor

[@true_rcs]

Always appreciate you smashing that like button!

[@thomaschen6697]

I enjoyed your video. I like both cards, but I have the feeling that eventually the hobby will designate the Star 101 as the true rookie card. It is really hard to look pass the fact that the Star came out in 1984 and the Fleer came out fully 2 years later in 1986. In the future, very few people will remember or care whether the Star cards are pack pulled or not.

[@true_rcs]

Glad you enjoyed it Thomas I like both cards too. I often speak against the hobby deciding such things this is why we're always debating. A set of principles should be the guide to designation not popular opinion based on the elitist of the hobby. Another view I have is, what rookie card of the 80s and 90s was of the player in his actual rookie year? You see that is a rule that was adopted in 2006 by the PA. So were taking a standard of today and trying to apply it to 1984 Star. I don't think it should work that way that's rewriting history for personal gains. I may be a fish swimming upstream but I can't help believing in what I believe is right. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts and for tuning in 👍

[@gregggyf]

Good Evening Victor, I firmly believe that the 1984 Star Jordan has/is/is going to be a "gigantic thorn" in the rookie card topic, and of course, all it takes is one card to (to use a popular term of these times) disrupt certain aspects.

[@true_rcs]

Perhaps. But total pop on this card for both PSA and BGS is only around 1500 cards. So it's great for the elite in the hobby, its great for wow hobby content factor. The other 99.9% of the hobby will only have a chance at the Fleer due to the rarity of the Star.

[@gregggyf]

@@true_rcs Thank you for your reply Victor and do have a good day.

[@vintagecollector5340]

This has always been a heated debate. I always thought Star was ugly for Jordans rookie. I dont own either card, and I just prefer to own original photos of Jordan. However, I do collect Star Company Griffey rookies and Nova sets. These are very undervalued and overlooked. Could you imagine the rookie card debate between Griffey 1988 and 1989 Star Company sets versus his 1989 Fleer Glossy, 1989 Topps Tiffany, and 1989 Bowman Tiffany? Throw in all the mass-produced rookies and you have a massive mess.

[@true_rcs]

Yeah, this is another concern that I have. If we start rewriting history for one than we’ll start doing it for a bunch of other cards like your Griffey example. Hey I appreciate you tuning in and sharing your thoughts 👍🏼

[@vintagecollector5340]

@@true_rcs It makes no sense. Why can't original photos of his fetch six figures, too? Wouldn't those need to jump in price and history be written for those? I have original photos of Jordan from 1986 and late 80s, as well as a rookie portrait: yet, if I listed them on auction, I'd be extremely lucky to barely see a four-figure sale.

[@WilliamOrloff]

At first I wasn’t agreeing with your argument. IE were you there? Do you study Jordan’s cards extensively? Wouldn’t be fair to other people who own the 1986 card. Nonsense arguments. BUT then you finished with labeling both with an asterisk. Totally agree with you now. You changed my mind. Thanks for the video

[@true_rcs]

Appreciate your thoughts and checking out the video 👍🏼

[@SteveWolfeShorts]

Great video! You nailed it regarding this scenario. New subscriber look forward to your channel!!

[@true_rcs]

Welcome aboard Steve! Thanks for the support!

[@80sStarBasketball]

I think you could just as easily change your title to "Can money write history?". The whole of your argument is based on an invalid comparison. You try and compare a perception/opinion to a document/entity created. Obviously this makes no sense in any capacity. Here is a hint - It more compares to a wrongful conviction/opinion - which can be overturned/changed. This is what is playing out now. Also you clearly dont want to "compromise" as you sarcastically slam people who view this very different (check your crying emoji). I was hoping you were above that - I was incorrect obviously.

[@true_rcs]

You're making this personal. Relax! Yes, I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours. You don't agree with my takes and I don't agree with yours but you don't see me blasting you on your channel, do you? I could, should, and want to, but I won't. Appreciate you tuning in though!

[@80sStarBasketball]

@@true_rcs Again I think you might want to reread your comment on Dustin's channel to see why that stance was taken(in my most relaxed voice). Btw...you might want to find the other channel that called you out specifically yesterday to disagree with you. They reach a larger audience but was interesting what they both had to say.

[@CapAnson12345]

I just remember seeing these things at shows for 1/100th the price and shaking my head at how ridiculous that was.

[@true_rcs]

For sure. “How to become a millionaire” sell things to rich people. 😅👍🏼 thanks for tuning in!

[@ozvander]

They were in packs, clear packs. 🤣

[@true_rcs]

That's not how this works Oz. Clear, team set, poly-bags was not the established form of proper distribution in the hobby. At that time packs had to have a randomness to it.

[@ozvander]

@@true_rcs what about buying a complete factory set? You can buy a complete 1989 upper deck set, guaranteed a Griffey. I believe the Star card will be viewed as the true RC. I started collecting in the 80s, and I have seen the narrative change on Star cards. The “Shop at home” fiasco hurt them, but I feel we now know the whole story on these cards and sets. 👍

[@kingsfan_Tim]

Ive owned both since they were firsr available in the 1980s and the 1986 fleer is the RC as it was widely available and can be pack pulled. The xrc designation may have been misleading but it was widely accepted because it came as a set and not pack pulled AND it was a 'pre-rookie' as the 1986 fleer was already designated as the RC. Ive always held the star as more valuable because of supply and demand..the star was just harder to find. Now PSA has a huge influence in keeping the star price low because they would not grade it implying copies were ao close to the original that they could not tell but this is ridiculous as any one with a little background can tell a fake one from the real one. The fact that PSA woke up and started to grade it shows that it isnt that hard to tell the difference. Its going up because a lot of collectors only collect psa and the card is carching up to its true value. This is not some regional issued card or team set but leaguewide and issued widely but just in smaller quantities. With crazy number of rookie cards nowadays, it is only right that both cards are wanted by all collectors and then its supply and demand. Demand for star was artifically held back not because it wasnt his RC but the negative publicity before.

[@true_rcs]

This is an honest and accurate take on this topic Tim. It closely aligns with my take in almost every way. Thanks for sharing and for tuning in.

[@kingsfan_Tim]

As for the *RC designations, id rather keep it the way it is RC for 1986 fleer and XRC for the star signifying pre-RC/team set/not pack pulled type of card.

[@true_rcs]

Fair enough!

[@mozzie22]

RC's HAVE to be pack issued, period. Great channel. I was collecting in 84-86 and nobody knew of these STAR cards outside of regional areas. Here is where you are DEAD WRONG, MJ is NOT the greatest athlete of all time. Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete off all time.

[@true_rcs]

🤣 Bo it is! Yeah I get into those details in the video I linked to at the end and in the show notes. This one was referring more to the fact that we shouldn't try to rewrite history and the Beckett article. Appreciate you tuning in!

[@TheSportsCardDad]

A UN negotiation? This is ‘dangerous’ talk Victor 😂

[@true_rcs]

🤣👍🏼 appreciate you tuning brother!

[@treybennett5413]

paying attention to the past investors "intel" as criteria for preserving a rookie status is not logical at all. If their data was not correct when they made the purchase, or its dynamic, then thats their risk. Not for the future minds to preserve... Investment due diligence should not be part of the rookie card classification. 86 is Fleers 1st card of Jordan. Not a rookie card. Some players just dont have rookie cards... in the 80's, 1st card was usually worth more (like minor league cards). Not a comment on Star; just saying what the mentality was. The term rookie card was sometimes interchanged with 1st card like Kleenex and facial tissue. Classifying their value is what its really about. Sales are the truth! Good video

[@true_rcs]

I hear you, but a false narrative is being spun to generate hype. Also, sales can be manipulated so truth should never be found in money, instead truth can be found in the principles and standards of the day coupled to historical facts. I appreciate your insights and tuning in to the video.

[@PittsburghCardCollector]

The problem with this hobby is too many people put their emotions into this topic instead of looking at the big pictures. The 1984 Star is Michael Jordan's rookie card period. His 1986 Fleer is technically his 3rd year card. It was easy to obtain the Star cards back in the mid 80's so don't give me that BS that it was tough. I was able to order the entire set in 1984 as a 14-year-old. How the hell was this not available for everyone if a snot nose kid like me was able to order the entire set? Stop with the copouts. Take your emotions out of it, especially if you own either card.

[@true_rcs]

Well it seems that we are the same age and same collecting interest with Clemente. However, I have to respectfully disagree with you. First, not being emotional just passionate, a fantastic quality to have as a content creator. Also, they were widely available to certain social circles not mainstream. Lastly, I don't have to cop out my personality is authoritative and so I don't feel the need. I was trying to facilitate compromise but if you want to force the issue the 86 Fleer is the true RC, period. Thanks for tuning in 👍🏼

[@ryanorourke9487]

I feel like I used to disagree with you a bunch, but now I can’t recall any reasons why. Your takes here are not only correct, but feel obvious. I think also that Star cards were not pack issued major releases and that standard was not only the standard of the 1980s, but also for many decades before and after. It’s not just a Jordan issue. There are countless examples in the entire post-war history of the hobby, including many of the biggest names.

[@true_rcs]

It's good to hear that Ryan. You are correct in that Star cards were not pack issued but I got into those details in the video I linked to at the end and in the show notes. This one here is more about us trying to rewrite history and my review of the Beckett article. Appreciate you tuning in!

[@ryanorourke9487]

@@true_rcs yes. But don’t back down from that correct stance! Pack pulled major release has long been the standard. Beckett has indicated the same thing with all of those xrc indicators. The * could be seen as rewriting history a bit, no?

[@mikethibault31]

What card is Babe Ruth’s rookie card and why?

[@true_rcs]

Prewar cards are an entirely different animals. Apples and oranges. However, I do have a video on the topic. 👍🏼

[@mikethibault31]

@@true_rcs can you post a link to that video. I’d be interested in seeing it. I do enjoy a good back-and-forth. Mutual respect.

[@true_rcs]

@@mikethibault31 1914 Baltimore News Is NOT Babe Ruth's ROOKIE CARD! kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmjRf6OBpNlsmKs

[@true_rcs]

@@mikethibault31 sorry that was the wrong video, this is the one DETERMINING THE TRUE ROOKIE CARD OF BABE RUTH kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5XdpGl9iZycfKM

[@CommercialFreeShow]

Great video. I am with you but the shady actors and loud mouths of the hobby don’t agree with us. Did you ever research the hobby past of Jesse Craig? He is a bad person and should be banned but in the hobby we reward his behavior. Jesse was one of the master minds behind Hero Of Sport REPACK scam that sports card radio has documented. Jesse Craig and anything he is involved should always include his past history. Oh he was at pwcc when eBay kicked them off for shilling bidding

[@true_rcs]

That's interesting did not know that. Thanks for the insights.

[@topps85401]

Entering video Victor.

[@true_rcs]

Thanks Nate Dog!

[@AnthonyColda]

I disagree with the assessment both cards are rookie cards due to "fairness and Money spent". I have the 86 Jordan card for many years and I recently purchased the 84 STAR. The term rookie by definition is the first year of sport, to rewrite the English literature to define the word rookie could mean a third year at a sport doesn't fly. Michael Jordans rookie year is the one depicted on the STAR basketball card. There is also more counterfeited 86 fleer cards than there are 84 star. I listened to your podcast but cannot say the 86 fleer is Jordans first year NBA card based on the reasons you listed. Year one is year one, year 3 is not year one but year 3. Thanks Victor I liked and subscribed

[@true_rcs]

I understand your stance, it's a fair one all things considered. Kinda shocked you don't like the healthy compromise of a *RC for both cards. If it's all or nothing I side with the 86 Fleer. Thanks for tuning in 👍🏼

[@AnthonyColda]

@@true_rcs When it comes to collecting we value uniqueness, supply, and actual facts. I do not purchase hoping that there will be compromise based on money spent or perception to keep collectors happy. A fact is a fact and a rookie is a first year player . I cant assess a card to purchase in my collection, flip it over and he has 3 years in the league and call him a rookie and pay a rookie premium/ I lost allot of value in my 86 fleers since 2022 but that is what I signed up for and blame no one or anything for it. Thanks again and enjoy have this debated because at the end of the day we are all collectors of a great hobby

[@RawJordanCardCollector]

Not all athletes have a sports card in their rookie year. Star was licensed but had very low distribution only going to dealers. MJ’s first pack issued card was the 86 fleer and has always been considered a rookie card. The Star was nearly an oddball level card. It was a horrible situation but this is what we have. XRC still means rookie so they both are rookie cards. Not to mention that both cards include photos from his rookie year (maybe the same game) and we released barely a year apart. Jordan, like many other players have multiple rookie cards and that’s okay.

[@AnthonyColda]

Definition of exactly what I view as a must have card.."licensed (approved product) very low distribution ( few in circulation , not oversaturated) only going to dealers (available to public a different route to purchase) . Regardless of how you dice it year one of an athlete is year one. if it were not a licensed NBA product or an approved product , I would agree on the fleer but as it stand the STAR is his true rookie. As a jordan collector I will always carry both. Thanks

[@RawJordanCardCollector]

@@AnthonyColda and that’s why we collect what we what to collect. At the end of the day, you and a few others can call it his true rookie card if you want, but that isn’t the consensus of the hobby. Which is that Jordan has always had multiple rookie cards.

[@tonyspare2468]

I think anyone who doesn't understand rookie card means first year card maybe should collect something else. Stamps are fun... You are way overthinking it friend.

[@true_rcs]

Yeah, that first card concept was relevant prior to 1981 but things have changed, you can read about it in my book True Rookie Cards. Perhaps you're not thinking this all the way through friend. Thanks for tuning in 👍

[@jmsportscards1046]

Why can’t both be rookie cards?

[@true_rcs]

That's the healthy compromise Im trying to propose. However, technically speaking two rookie cards separated by two years flies in the face of its historical meaning.

[@jmsportscards1046]

@@true_rcs a card distributed during a players rookie year and 2 years before any other card would seem to win the argument.

[@true_rcs]

@@jmsportscards1046 we’re rewriting history, and I don't agree with this practice. I was around back then, you may have been too, Star was never perceived to be legit company. You couldn't give them away. But now because scarcity equates to cash the narrative is being manipulated to benefit the few.

[@jmsportscards1046]

@@true_rcs I think the phrase rewriting history is a bit of a stretch. We are not changing facts. Just opinions. My opinion hasn't changed. I think the 86 Fleer Jordan is the more desired card but that alone shouldn't discount the value of the '84 Star. I would expect a true Jordan collector (with deep pockets) to want BOTH and probably care less about my opinion on either!

[@lindsaywhited2740]

This is an ambiguous video that really doesn’t offer anything except for your opinion, which utterly falls short by not taking a side. The constitution is constantly altered to fit the times in which we live in, which is the genius of the document. What’s different in distribution today compared to Back then? Seems like the same folks pull all the great cards today, right? Your comparisons have fatal flaws so I am not really sure this video has enlightened anyone or anything related to the Jordan rookie debate.

[@true_rcs]

Wow! My apologies for offending you. I will begin by saying that most of the content on KZbin is indeed other peoples opinion, this video is no exception. I believe I said "in my opinion" several times in this video. If you listen to it again I can assure you that I picked a side, I made that perfectly clear, I also included a healthy compromise in an effort to keep the peace. I never said that the Constitution was never changed, I said and I quote, "it would be like trying to change it" which refers more to the utterly dramatic changes that some folks demand (i.e. ban all weapons). I guess I could've been more clear. I respect your opinion thinking that this video has fatal flaws. But I disagree. I believe it's spot on. As someone who was around back then and the years of study that I've put into this genre of the hobby I'm confident in my claims. Anyways thanks for tuning in and consider subscribing. Tell Dave I said hello!

[@mycollectinganthology]

They're real, and they're spectacular! 😆🏀 Well done ,Victor. #manofpeace

[@true_rcs]

🤣 appreciate you Yanick! Thanks for tuning in!

[@Jason-wx6lj]

Seinfeld reference is gold!

[@Kyle-iy1ll]

I personally think the card industry is a scam.

[@true_rcs]

I can totally understand why you would feel that way 👍🏼

[@77eddiebx]

👍👍👍

[@true_rcs]

Appreciate it Eddie!

[@oarancards4443]

Never happened please

[@true_rcs]

This wouldn't surprise me either. 🤣👍🏼