1984 Tony Awards ('Sunday in the Park...' & 'La Cage aux Folles')

[@bongolong]

"La Cage aux Folles" is a curious show... In the 80s I was doing a production of the show (drummer/percussionist in the pit) and when my (very conservative) dad asked about it. I told him he probably wouldn't like it (for obvious reasons) but he came anyway and loved it! The themes of love and family are what this show is about and it still a favorite of mine.

[@MinaF99]

You deserve so much more attention. This is both incredibly educational and entertaining! You’re doing amazing work for this platform

[@StagedRight]

Very kind. Thank you. Xo

[@elinstar6034]

Just now found this content, and agree with you completely 😊

[@troygaspard6732]

Having seen the La Cage shortly after it won, I was happy for Jerry and Harvey. But it is Sunday In The Park With George, that brings me to tears everytime I see a production over the past decades.

[@glamhausslevin4940]

Oh my heart 😭😭😭 I worked backstage at the original London production at the Palladium. The happiest show ever. George Hearn, as well as his outstanding talent was the loveliest, most humble man. The late Denis Quilley was an amazing Georges, and the huge affection between the two leading men was a joy to behold. This show forever in my heart. Thank you for posting.

[@StagedRight]

Thank you. X

[@emmasmit2073]

Best possible conclusion! They are both great shows that do wildly different things and pushed wildly different envelopes at the time! MORE OF THAT PLEASE!

[@alejandromorales9516]

Sondheim himself was completely not pressed by Herman's dig at the Tonys as per Lapine's book about Sunday. La Cage has a wonderful score, but Sunday in the Park with George is sacred text to me. I don't think I'm alone in that. I also think Sondheim more than Herman will probably remain relevant to younger musical theater makers for a couple more generations. What people saw as "unmelodic" then lands a lot more on contemporary ears that have been schooled in pop music that is much more rhythmic and verbal than ever. It struck me while seeing the recent revival of Into the Woods how so many of the songs feel incredibly fresh in a post hip-hop and certainly post-Hamilton age. Still, to Herman's credit, his scores are such fun and he was well deserving of his success. His dig at Sunday feels not only petty now, but highly insecure.

[@joeburinskas8672]

It wasnt a dig at Sondheim but the NY Press that did not like LA Cage. Sunday is a terrible book, pretentious and cliche.

[@stephenr3910]

I watched this when it was on in 1984. I remember Jerry Herman's speech because our community theater groups had done "Mame" and "Hello, Dolly" the year before.

[@stevehinnenkamp5625]

Magnificent narrative, telling a story, complex yet compelling how a show may finally arrive for a run on Broadway. A wonderful document with great insights.

[@TheRavendearest]

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for mentioning the affect of AIDS on life at the time. The fear, the hate, the bigotry that the Queer community once more encountered that set back our fight for equal rights for years along with the loss of so many beautiful, talented, wonderful men.

[@elinstar6034]

So much talent and creativity buried in that decade, people not directly involved may have no idea 😢

[@drewtaylor8437]

Well done, thorough and straightforward! Great video! As an actor in New York for 40 years, and having had the honor to be in the room with both men! Each different and unique as are their musicals!

[@peteradaniel]

Here in London Sondheim reigns king. He’s so admired by everyone it’s hard to even acknowledge any other musical theatre composer of the last century. The BBC proms even did an evening devoted to his works, something that would never happen to Jerry Herman.

[@StagedRight]

That Proms performance of ‘Sunday’ rips me up every time I hear it ❤️

[@guystudios]

Sad that Herman’s no so appreciated over there 😢

[@jandreidrn]

Though the John Wilson Orchestra in Proms 2012 did perform Jerry Herman's select songs from Mame, Mack & Mabel and that previous year, John Wilson performed select songs from Hello Dolly!

[@MondoMiami]

Overrated gasbag. Same old tricks in every show that wow the wannabe intellectual set.

[@paillette2010]

Which is funny because you all sing along at the proms like it's sunday evening at that pub. And the songs are so singable.

[@stephenr3910]

I don't think there needs to be a rivalry. Sondheim and Herman were trying to do different things in their niches. For Herman, success was that the audience left humming the songs. Sondheim was trying to explore new horizons with musicals. There's room for both.

[@TimSimms7]

There absolutely needs to be a rivalry… if you want clicks. 😟

[@MondoMiami]

Sondheim was a pretentious gasbag.

[@rixx46]

I think it definitely was a shot against Sondheim . He even has a song about writing “humble melodies” in merrily we roll along.

[@msalicekeys]

Coming from the Sunday at the Park with George dvd commentary..ya it was a registered blow for certain. James Lapine says at one point, "Its brilliant, Steve. Who says your music isn't hummable?", in an almost healing way. Jerry was bitter that he didn't have success and glory of Steve, and lashed at him, in public on a huge night. Petty. And he was gonna say that win or lose; the kind of thought bitter, perceived-slighted people have loaded in the chamber at all times.

[@tomshea8382]

This is really good work. Absolutely none of the smarm that so many of these pages have. I have always thought Sunday was the superior show by a mile, but then I had the privilege to work on La Cage in Chicago last year. And brothers and sisters, seeing what the results of that production meant to my queer friends who saw it, many middle-aged like me (although I'm cishet) and having "been through it," the show really resonated in a new way for me.

[@blahdeblaaah9445]

Thank you for this researched, organized, thought out, fact filled video. I listened to the whole thing while gardening and loved every minute. Congratulations on awesome work.

[@Gaby-bx3cv]

an amazing video and wonderfully edited. i gasped learning about Laurents giving McClaine notes at the end jfc

[@StagedRight]

It’s wild. Thanks for watching!

[@TomJudson]

Very interesting material extremely well presented! Thank you!

[@LEGOSTOBRICKS]

This is such a well made and well researched video. Major props!!!

[@bradgriffith1283]

Well done - they both came out when I was in high school, and both important in different ways, though I'll always remember where I was watching that PBS broadcast of Sunday for the first time. Respectful note from someone who watched the Tonys in the 80s with friends on tape throughout the year as a pastime - Tony Straiges is pronounced "stray'-juz" Like stages with an r.

[@jeffsanders3453]

Another amazing video. I don’t remember how I came across your channel but so happy I did because I have enjoyed all your detailed analysis.

[@alexmg3648]

I would love to see footage of Christine Baranski in Sunday

[@StagedRight]

Adore her.

[@louyou5667]

Thank you so much for another amazing, interesting and educating video. There is so much history to discover. You and wait in the wings are doing the lords work 🖤

[@hanschristianbrando5588]

"Sunday in the Park" was everything a Broadway musical should be--witty, intelligent, moving, tuneful, challenging, absorbing, rewarding, expertly staged and performed--except fun. "La Cage" was fun.

[@averageellingtonenjoyer]

You didn’t think it was fun? Personally I really enjoyed Dot’s numbers but I also understand how it wouldn’t be considered fun. Plus I have a soft spot for Sondheim

[@richiejohnson]

Just found your channel ! Every episode is full of great photos and clips, and the players are deeply researched and explained. You make me feel like I'm still part of the city I left so many years ago.

[@farfle]

OMG, that ending really did have me laughing out loud! Thank you for another brilliant episode. I love what you do!

[@mjmatousek]

I love this channel! Thank you for making these videos. I'd love to see a video highlighting Lea Salonga. I don't think she's appreciated enough by Western audiences.

[@Jivansings]

Oh this was a treat. To borrow from my old friend Stephen, Staged Right your good, you’re really good.

[@benjaminsagan5861]

As someone who occasionally traded letters with Sondheim and once very nearly, if accidentally, trampled Jerry Herman to death, this video is remarkable. Fun side note! In her show "At Liberty" Elaine Stritch confesses to be being "nuts about Fritz Holt" -- but I never knew why until now. Good God, he was stunning.

[@hanschristianbrando5588]

He was also a good guy. Much the nicest of the "La Cage" producers.

[@whitneyryangarrity5265]

I lean towards Sunday, but most likely because I saw it twice on B'way - once in previews (it was such a different show, as noted here) and then after its opening. I never saw La Cage. My only connection was taking a Musical Theatre class along side John Weiner, who had played the son for the entire 3 1/2 year run and was looking for other songs to sing besides "Ann on My Arm" :)

[@johnv7060]

I wouldn’t exactly call “Children and Art” or “Lesson No. 8” slight since the entire show is in those songs, but this is a great little doc about, among many things, the end of one writing career and the third act of another. And thanks for putting the pre-Stonewall attitude of Laurents in context. He was, in his own way, a pioneering gay writer, and because of his complex relationship to his sexuality and the difficult times he lived in, I think a better one than Fierstein. His contribution to La Cage seems undervalued today. (Even though I still think La Cage, with the exception of three songs, is- to use your word- slight.) I could go on…

[@RickvanVeldhuizen]

I'm kind of in awe that the revoicing of George gave us all the beautiful 6-flat key signatures evoking impressionist music.

[@rixx46]

Watching this with my wife let us to seeing our very first Broadway musical on Broadway. Sunday in the Park was amazing.

[@kc-lp6wg]

Watching!! There was even a COC ad at the start! Kisses and hugs to you, can't wait to watch and learn something (l always do).

[@MADHAUSMARKALLAN]

I was living in Boston as a young dancer in the spring of 1983. The studio where I was working out of had an alum visiting who was in the tryouts of La Cage. After class, he pulled out his pumps and showed us some of the steps. He had great legs I didn’t really understand what was going on, but I moved to New York the next month and then the next year both La Cage and Sunday in the Park had opened and I was broke, broke, broke. I moved to Europe and got to see La Cage in the autumn of 1985. At theater des westens. It was incredible. As well as this wonderful documentary. What did surprised me was that you didn’t mention Strange Loop at all. It won the Pulitzer and was highly innovative. Thanks so much.

[@hillerymcdonald2303]

My goodness you are brilliant. Thank you SO much for your incredible work!!

[@brandonhill1096]

Very informative. Thank you. Love your channel.

[@Neratzoula]

Just found your channel. You are amazing!!

[@Melissa-tw2gp]

I adore both of these shows, and I’m so glad both artists saw success so I could enjoy their work.

[@loferx]

Everyone having to audition except Angela Lansbury fits my vision of musical theatre very well.

[@rixx46]

Thanks so much for this insightful entertaining video on two great shows. My wife and I saw the original cast of SUNDAY -- our first BW musical (we are from Canada) we found it's narrative challenging - particularly the tone shift in the 2nd act, given the first act told a complete/closed story. I continue to love it and FINISHING THE HAT still moves me every time I hear it. It's not insignificant that Sondheim entitled his two volume lyric memoirs, FINISHING THE HAT and LOOK I MADE A HAT. A must-have for any Sondheim freak (like me!) In 2021, Lapine published a great book ( PUTTING IT TOGETHER...) about the creation of this masterwork. Sad fact about Jerry Herman, according to Harvey Fierstein's excellent autobiography, Jerry Herman was paranoid about anyone learning that he too contracted HIV/AIDS in 1985, although it was not related to his cause of death at 89 last year.

[@jld4444444444]

I would of paid to watch this!! Love your work!!

[@shannon2711]

Nicely done!

[@edcomedian357]

Beautifully done Thanks

[@Dschildkret]

Excellent informative entertaining series. Keep going.

[@patrickgomes2213]

This is wonderfully nuanced. Jerry Herman was both right and wrong at the same time about traditional musicals being dead on Broadway. La Cage is no more a traditional musical any more than SITP isn't a traditional musical. The story telling is vastly different. And - I know you say it out loud - the two composers shouldn't be compared.

[@Elphaboy]

Omg the clip of the guy at the very end saying it’s a painting by Steven Sondheim 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂⚰️⚰️⚰️⚰️⚰️⚰️⚰️⚰️

[@Philippadrinkstea]

It blows my mind how expensive tickets are on Broadway - I saw Hamilton here in the west end for a whole £40 when it was still in it's first year...

[@PaganVegas]

It was never a real competition. Both were great men of the theater. But there’s no doubt the Sondheim was the superior craftsman. He easily wrote a Herman-esque style song when the situation called for it (“Beautiful Girls”). Jerry could not have written a Sondheim song even if he wanted to. Fortunately, he didn’t want to. He just kept writing beautiful Jerry Herman songs. We all won.

[@StagedRight]

I like this take. Xo

[@jandreidrn]

Though some would point out that Jerry Herman came the closest to matching Sondheim's brilliance with rhyming with "Just Leave Everything to Me" in the "Hello Dolly" film.

[@terrymbridges]

Jerry Herman addressed this on Theater Talk. Michael Riedel asked him about the Tony moment point-blank, and Jerry said it wasn’t a dig at Sondheim at all. (Meryl Seacrest said SS very much thought it was a dig in her biography of him.) Herman said he considered himself a songwriter and Sondheim a genius, and said he liked Sunday very much. Gracious backtracking? I do remember reading an anecdote of JH watching Angela Lansbury win an award (was it the Tony for Gypsy?) and when she thanked SS and didn’t mention him, he flew into a rage. Maybe it’s apocryphal…

[@victordunson719]

Even though Sondheim is a GENIUS doesn’t mean you’re going to win everything 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@FRADAVE01]

I won the first bet of my adult life in 1984, when La Cage won the Tony. I was a callow youth of 24, and preferred Jerry Herman's style, while my bestie loved Sunday is the Park! He was dead within the year. I would give anything to be able to tell him that it's a draw! 😢

[@Autostade67]

I read somewhere Herman claimed he wasn't referring directly to Sondheim, and for what its worth, despite being a Sondheim connoisseur with only a nominal taste for some of Herman's work, I can believe it...but it was interpreted as such, which is odd because Sondheim moved so fully into the chromaticism and formal freedom of 'Sunday' as a reaction to the failure of 'Merrily We Roll Along', which, if we're talking 'simple' hummable songs threw down an intimidating gauntlet that said, "see, I can do this too, in spades , and what's more I can do it backward AND deconstruct it as I go." Funnily enough 'Look Over There' from La Cage! is as close to Sondheim as Herman ever got...it's a bit uncanny. But let's face it, despite its Pulitzer Prize, It's still surprising that 'Sunday' ever made it to Broadway - and a show like that now - impossible.

[@peterbreughel4440]

The good thing about being old fashioned is that you can't go out of fashion. 'La Cage aux Folles' will always work on Broadway because it is a well crafted crowd pleaser.

[@jayhartbarger2793]

Mack/Mabel which I saw in L.A. and Dear World are my fav productions of his.

[@mikkibaker6907]

The first revival of La Cage was far superior to the original. They didn't "chicken out" and hide cis women in the Cagelles and the choreography was an order of magnitude better, winning the Tony for Choreography! Rather than worry about touchy audiences, they went for it and were rewarded with the Best Revival Tony.

[@joeburinskas8672]

What do you mean hide CIS women. I saw the original and it was pretty obvious who were men and who were women.

[@MichaelShayne-n7j]

A note about the original La Cage team. Mike Nichols, Tommy Tune, Jay Presson Allan, and Maury Yeston. A draft of the book and about ten songs were written and the show was retitled The Queen of Basin Street and reset in New Orleans. They even thought of calling it The Queen and I. There was a story that it was to be homophobic, but in reality the change was purely financial. The creative team were all represented by the same lawyer and Allan Carri’s own lawyer pointed out that with all the financial points that the creatives had it would it would be impossible to make any profit. Carr went to their lawyers and fired them all. He felt bad about Yeston as he liked the score. He promised they would work again (Goya) and gave him points.

[@prestuvius]

I love when no mention of inflation is made when talking about money in 1984. "I don't know WHAT you can get on Broadway today for $40!"

[@prestuvius]

That's $113 in today's money, FYI.

[@StagedRight]

$113 US today is just under the ‘average’ price of a ticket on Broadway these days. I paid $192 CA (more than $113 US) for a mezzanine ticket for Sweeney in the spring. (I’m very excited about the show, btw, though of course that doesn’t include what I’ll have to pay for flights and accommodations.) That supposedly represents mid-tier pricing. They were selling orchestra tickets for around $250-$400 when they went on sale in the fall and I can only imagine resellers are boosting that price up. While inflation is absolutely a valid point, I’m not addressing that. (Some viewers who come across my stuff love to knit-pick over my choice of words in these videos to either a. create conflict that isn’t there, or b. feel like they can one-up me. To that, I say good for them. I hope they I made their day.) Broadway is expensive and a large portion of people are being phased out of being able to afford to come and see shows. I often wonder exactly who was buying tickets to see the recent Music Man or even say Hamilton in its first few years. Certainly not the ‘average ticket buyer.’

[@prestuvius]

@@StagedRight Okay imagine talking about the price of a Broadway show in 1958 and trying to compare it to the price of a ticket today. Kinda pointless unless you put it in context.

[@alexiacaceda1421]

Sunday is my musical rn so this wil be very interesting

[@fadhilramadhani1847]

Ain't nobody know a song from La Cage now tho

[@SydSeeker]

Be sure to read Jerry Herman's memoir 'Showtune', where he recalls the bad reviews he received for Dear World, Mack & Mabel and Grand Tour and quotes how a few critics said his style of music no longer had a place on Broadway and his time had passed. Within that context, his 1984 Tony's speech made complete sense - he had proved his music still was relevant. It was not about Sondheim at all.

[@lakrids-pibe]

Oh by the way, Shirley, I saw your show and I have a few notes... ahem...

[@Jude74]

I remember that season for some reason. I was 10. 🤨

[@ScoBroCity]

It’s worth noting, in ‘83 $1.00 had the purchasing power of $3.00 in today’s market. Average ticket prices hung around $40.00 as mentioned in the video at that time. Effectively what would be $120.00 to us. Idk if thats average or not…

[@StagedRight]

I get what you’re saying. But $40 is the top price in 1984 = $120 today. My partner and I were looking at tickets for ‘Six’ on Broadway last week and the back row of their balcony is $140. People in the orchestra are paying closer to $300. I remember paying $120 USD to see ‘Follies’ on Broadway in 2012. And in September, I paid $192.50 CAD for my ‘Sweeney’ tix I’m seeing next month. It just seems like a different world now.

[@CiaoRooster]

La Cage is an important, landmark show to be sure. But I like to say that every Herman musical has exactly two good songs. Mascara and What I Am are these songs, and they are particularly anthemic to the day. (I don’t care for Song on the Sand, though I know people do admire it.) The overall problem is with the book however. It is amorphous. The 1st act finale (Best of Times) while rousing is sung by a random restauranteuse who barely makes any other appearance and whose name I don’t think any audience member (including me could remember.) People like to say that Sondheim is unhummable, a dig he ironically wears with pride in Merrily. But I only posit that the lyrics are hard to learn (cf Forbidden Broadway: Into the Words), but once you do, these are the songs that your heart and your head return to. I would rather belt out Move On in my car when it comes on the radio, 10 times over before I hum along with Best of Times. And the pleasure of getting the lyric right for Hot up Here is like getting Wordle in one. I don’t think I can trust anyone who disagrees.

[@benjaminsagan5861]

Also: You got the lyric wrong! It's "gay as a daisy in May, *_a cliche_* coming true"...

[@benjaminsagan5861]

Also: I know what you can get on Broadway for $40: Drug-resistant gonorrhea.

[@benjaminsagan5861]

Final thought: Because you dismiss La Cage as being somewhat asexual, it's worth noting that it's actually *extremely* and even *disturbingly* sexual at one point, if obliquely. The long-running joke about Herman is that all of his scores contain a song that's ostensibly about the plot but actually about fisting. In Mame, it's "Open a New Window"; in Dolly, it's "I Put My Hand In". .... In La Cage, it's "With You On My Arm". It's there, but it's coded.

[@guystudios]

@@benjaminsagan5861 what’s fisting

[@lakrids-pibe]

@@guystudios It's when you clench your fist and shake it high because you're angry at the weather. Like an old foolish man.

[@waddlesdpuffin]

Great stuff but Gene Barry played Bat Masterson on Bat Masterson and Amos Burke on Burke’s Law and then Amos Burke Secret Agent

[@StagedRight]

Another subscriber/viewer pointed it out. Sorry for the mistake.

[@theatrebear]

$40 in 1984 = $112.67 today :)

[@StagedRight]

I paid $192 CA for ‘Sweeney’ tickets in the mezzanine. But cool.

[@theatrebear]

@@StagedRight oh yes. I think the costs are a lot higher nowadays.

[@joeburinskas8672]

Probably more. There's a reason why Broadway doesn't reach a large audience

[@evans54]

Bat Masterson and Burkes Law are 2 different shows

[@StagedRight]

Whoops.

[@Autostade67]

"Lesson No. 8" is NOT a slight song.

[@95KIPPIE]

Broadway died when Ethel Merman quit performing!

[@martinfreeman6491]

Sunday Was Fab so was La Cage. But Sunday should have won

[@joeburinskas8672]

No

[@MichaelShayne-n7j]

Fierstein got his wish with gay actors playing the lead when Larry Kert and Harvey Evans took it on a bus and truck tour

[@diamondsmusic6413]

Really enjoyed this video. However, my god- all the commercials 6 or 7!!!!! Really stopped the rhythm and flow of the video and took me out of the experience.

[@cpbfox]

OK, I must admit bias since Jerry Herman was directly involved in my engagement to my wife, but Sondheim writes weak second acts. Herman knows how to put together a whole show. I know it's anathema to disparage Sondheim, but I thought the second act of "Sunday in the Park..." sucked. I noticed nothing about the second act of this show was mentioned in this video. Herman adapted arguably the best French comedy for an American audience. He deserved the Tony.

[@joeburinskas8672]

Disparage away. His books are the weak part of most of his musicals.

[@AF-zo4vu]

Do the 64s when funny girl won absolutely nothing over hello dolly

[@StagedRight]

With love, I’ve done my time talking about Funny Girl on this channel. Thanks for watching! Xo

[@AF-zo4vu]

lol 😂 thank you !

[@joeburinskas8672]

Funny Girl is a one-woman show, not great and if you don't have a stellar Fanny, it stinks. Think Beanie

[@tall9317]

Wow do all Alan Carr’s look alike lol

[@freemangriffin4953]

Sunday was the better show.

[@marcuspd7502]

Comparing Sondheim to Herman is like comparing Einstein to a rock.

[@lakrids-pibe]

I like rock music

[@BonnerDoemling]

Stephen should have taken Jerry outside after the ceremony for a Broadway Brodown

[@95KIPPIE]

Sondheim was a complete and total jerk!!! He didn’t respect anyone, his nose was so far up in the air! Arrogance at its greatest

[@Autostade67]

You can have real drag artists and Albin and George ripping each other's clothes off all you want - 'La Cage' is still an extraordinarily conservative musical - and I don't mean politically (in regards to the low grade protestations of evangelical moralists): there's nothing risky about it - that's why it succeeded then and that's why revivals succeed now....in fact it's so orthodox that there's something a bit retrograde about it - and about much of drag - today; offering a predictable master text for a queer culture that has otherwise stalled, that is incapable of a new, radical vision of itself. Be careful what you wish for: legitimacy has engendered banality, and with that, a vast and unintriguing culture of the archival... so it seems a moot put to jump on Laurents and the 1983 production for being quasi closeted; we are all quasi-closeted now, but not in hiding our gayness, but by letting it eclipse everything else.

[@oscarlover100]

La Cage aux Folles was more deserving- Sunday has a terrible story and it's music can be a bit grating even with a lot of amazing moments.

[@guystudios]

Agreed, La Cage is delightful

[@marcuspd7502]

You have terrible taste.

[@joeburinskas8672]

Sondheim musicals often border on pretension. No heart at all.

[@marcuspd7502]

@@joeburinskas8672 Like what, Sweeney Todd? Not all musicals have to be bursting with joy. That’s not the purpose of art. My experience has been that people who label something as “pretentious” usually do so, because they simply don’t understand the point of it.

[@antonmarino6568]

Is all.of Broadway gay?