1986 Porsche 944 - Torsion Bar Delete and Rear Coilover Install

[@zanesalamah846]

Prob the best video on torsion bar delete

[@epochmotoring]

Very kind! Thank you!

[@christopherbristow1869]

Well done for tackling this on the ground. I have mine on a lift and have been tackling the whole rear suspension. Thankfully all the bolts have undone easily - a good dose of PB Blaster and a long bar. The only troublesome points were the brake line nuts. I removed the rear exhaust to give better access - plus it allows me to clean up exhaust brackets and replace bushes. Once the torsion bar is removed, it is a great opportunity to get at areas you don't have easy access to.

[@epochmotoring]

So true! If you needed to clean up the underside this would be the time! Thanks for the comments and info! It’s really appreciated!

[@zacychan1]

😅 That’s quite the project! Thanks for the informative video!

[@epochmotoring]

Thank you very much! It was a handful, but happy to have the experience. Quick DIY version coming soon!

[@GillesLacoste-e5t]

Hi, what are the advantages of doing all this instead of installing sport shocks (Bilsteins B8 for instance) and stiffer springs (such as H&R)? And maybe an adjustable sway bar to replace the existing one?

[@epochmotoring]

I would say on the go adjustability for ride height. Dialing in a new set of wheels, tires, and how the car sits considering offset, width and tire size! The option you mentioned would work well, the only downside is any adjustments to height need to be made by dropping the rear end again and adjusting the torsion bars. That could be tedious depending on your wheel/tire setup and driving/track use!

[@wadevidal5525]

What spring rates did you go with front and rear?

[@epochmotoring]

I went with the “sport” spring rates that CEIKA has. I didn’t love the overall fitment, but the customer support was good and that spring rate rides great!

[@volleyballurrrr]

Thanks for uploading this and for your help on my questions about the front coilovers, got the right parts from CEIKA and they hooked up with no problems! Another question, did you have any issues with the parking brake cable during this process? I noticed that wasn’t mentioned in the Clark’s garage walkthrough but I saw it mentioned in another video with an early car that you have to disconnect the e brake from the lever

[@epochmotoring]

Glad it all worked out! Happy to help however I can!

[@volleyballurrrr]

Thank you! A few more questions: 1. did you have any issues with the handbrake cable / did you have to disconnect that cable at the lever? 2. Did you disconnect the rear brake line anywhere other than the caliper? 3. Did you have any trouble freeing the nuts on the 3 bolts that connect the spring plate (shown at 9:22)? Mine are too much for my electric impact… granted, it is harbor freight 😂

[@epochmotoring]

@@volleyballurrrr No problem! 1. I did not have to mess with the handbrake cable at all. 2. I didn’t do a good job of covering it, I did disconnect the brake line at the torsion bar. This was to let the entire brake hub assembly drop without ripping the line. Keep an eye on your fluid level as your clutch master shares a reservoir with the brakes. If it gets to low you’ll have to bleed the clutch. 3. I didn’t have any issues but my Ryobi impact does pretty well with the nicer battery on it. When in doubt, use a breaker bar with a non deep set socket so you don’t strip the bolt with angle on the breaker bar. Let me know what else you run into!

[@volleyballurrrr]

Hey man, i finally got everything installed recently, took it to the alignment shop and we noticed that the bottom perch is still rubbing on the control arm even when the car is on the ground and putting some stress on the whole coilover. I know you mentioned this was the case for you in the video, did it affect ride quality at all? Did you look into adding a thicker spacer to the bottom mounting bolt at all to move it away from the control control arm?

[@epochmotoring]

@@volleyballurrrr when I compressed the suspension it finally cleared. I think the only route to go is a thicker spacer. That’s frustrating. I’d reach out to CEIKA and see if they have a different option. They suggested a spacer to me - but it’s some extra stress on that bolt that I don’t love

[@Porschee944]

👍👍👍

[@klauskleber358]

I have a question. For the unlikely event that the bolt holding the coilover will break whats going to happen then? Will the tire hit the wheelhouse and block or ist there kind of a bump stop or travel limiter as safety?

[@epochmotoring]

Good question! While the original suspension did utilize that bolt as a mounting point for the weight of the rear of the car, it was designed for a strut. This means that the area where that bolt sits is designed for the top of a strut (though not as sturdy as a modern rear strut design.) If the bolt snapped, the weight of the car would be supported by the top of the strut against the inside of the rear body. There isn’t a traditional bump stop. Not an ideal situation, but the body is sturdy enough not to punch through. I did some research ahead of time and the factory mount and bolt are sufficient!

[@klauskleber358]

Thanks for your answwr but i think you misunterstood me, i was thinking of the lower bolt where the coilover is attached to the trailing arm. If it woould snap there is no more support. My question now is: will the wheel hit the wheelhouse or will it be stopped from something before that happens? Because if not that would be extremely dangerous…?

[@epochmotoring]

@@klauskleber358 apologies for misunderstanding your question! I had to review my installation and put some thought into this question. If the bottom bolt for the coilover mounting did snap, the situation would be a little bit complicated. Depending on the factory wheel and tire setup, the tire may end up hitting the inside of the body - I think it likely would in most cases. That being said, the torsion carrying tube is still bolted on the front side to the body, and on the rear side to the trailing arm, which finally bolts to your hub assembly. Without a torsion bar in that carrying tube, you no longer have sprung force applied BUT there is only so much rotational give in the trailing arm and spring plate assembly. I found this to be true because as I jacked up the assembly to get the top 17mm bolts in, I lifted the car off of the Jack stands a bit. I believe that some of the force handled by the suspension would be transferred through those assemblies to their mounting points. Short answer - yes it would be dangerous, but I believe the rear might have some support in this scenario.

[@klauskleber358]

@@epochmotoring Ok thank you so much for your thoughts…I am interestet in changing to coilovers but i have to be sure that if sonething breaks the wheels wont block… the swaybar is supporting the wheel when the bolt goes on one side. But i had the hope that the movement of the trailing arm is somehow limited before the wheel would hit the wheelhouse. I looked at your video again in min 16:00 the trailing arm seems to be at the highest possible point but i cant imagine a wheel to fit in the wheelhouse in this position… But there must be a way to limit the travel and even the factory should have installed something for safety… but i cant find clear information…

[@epochmotoring]

@@klauskleber358 I understand your concern completely. There are a lot of folks running Coilovers, and in all of my research I’ve never heard of this happening. You could go the route of Coilovers that retain the torsion bar, but that requires a good bit of work balancing height with the indexing of the bar, etc. To be fair, if the bolt broke on the factory torsion/strut setup, I don’t know that the torsion bar would be enough to keep the body off of the tire either! Might just have to be an ‘accepted risk’ with this chassis.

[@revdalsharp]

what coils did you end up going with?

[@epochmotoring]

CEIKA Coilovers. Updated - 7/10 would recommend for extended support and troubleshooting***. They handle fine and have a lot of adjustability, but the fitment could’ve been better. My advice (in hindsight) if you’re looking for a direct fit would be to spend an extra $300 and gets Konis!***

[@taswesty]

@@epochmotoring Great video. I have a question regarding the pricing you mentioned above. The Ceika kit I have looked at is quoted as $1190 and the only KW's I can find are $3549. I'm just wondering if I'm looking at the wrong KW kit or if the price has gone up $2000 in 4 months?

[@epochmotoring]

@@taswesty Apologies, I need to update this. Working with CEIKA I’ve had better support over time. I’d up their rating for sure. I added different spring setups including helpers on my updated CEIKA setup and it was closer to $1400. And you’re correct, they don’t make a V2 anymore that I can find (those would’ve been closer to 1800), the setup I was also looking at were the Konis. Apologies for the confusion. www.paragon-products.com/Coil-Over-Kit-Koni-Cup-p/koni_cup_kit.htm

[@taswesty]

@@epochmotoring No need to apologize at all. Things change all the time. I hadn't seen the koni's, I might look into them a bit more. Thanks again for the advice.

[@artmchugh5644]

Check out Lindsay racing bilstein escort cup setup 😊 got it awhile ago on my 951 ,I think it was around 2200 bucks and came with billet camber plates😊😊😊😊