$1M Engine Upgrade to a Pilatus PC12 - Was it Worth It?

[@mikemorgan8792]

I love seeing Mark so excited for the second time to watch him explain P vs B

[@indyjons321]

Oh good. It wasn't just me watching it again. haha!

[@applicablerobot]

It took me far too long to realize I'd already seen this...

[@notubenick]

That was a ONE MILLION explanation.

[@MrFg1980]

The fact that there are less engine management concerns holds as much value as the faster airspeeds and time to climb considerations in my book. Money well spent. Love the numbers videos, that's the info we need.

[@richardghastin6685]

Great to have an excellent, no BS, presentation to start a Saturday morning! Thank you, Mark😊

[@opusx._.6092]

I’m not a pilot, I’ve flown all of 3 times commercially, when you talk about different planes I generally have no clue what you’re talking about. All that being said, I could listen to you talk about the cost:benefit analysis on the 9 different ways of skinning a cat. Thank you Patey Brothers for piquing my interest in aviation. Because of you I will some day own a bush plane and have my private pilots license.

[@gmcjetpilot]

I love ppl talking about $1M as if nothing for a motor. That is my net worth. Ha ha. I have zero jealousy and feel rich in the Lord and all the blessings I have, including my Lyc 0360 powered RV7. I love numbers as an engineer and airline pilot.... The upgrade was worth it? If you have the money yes. It definitely added performance and resale value. Q: Is that a $1M including trade in for original PT6? Considering a full PT6 overhaul is $460K flat rate, (could be less), $1M for a NEW PT6 with higher thermal limits is pretty good. Aviation to save $1M you have to spend $5 million. Ha ha. Planes do not fly with LIFT and THRUST.... They fly with $$$$$$$$$.

[@stephandelaat]

460 flat rate overhaul will not happen.

[@gmcjetpilot]

@stephandelaat who are you? Won't happen? Ha ha. $460K is not 460. Punctuation matters. That is $460,000 and it is high. It can be done for less. I talked to P&W Canada. I worked for P&W military engines in CT as an engineer. Ala Cart overhaul with minimal parts replaced is less if the PT6 is in good condition, well-maintained and properly operated. Does not include prop overhaul. I just looked it up. Do research before you open your mouth.

[@stephandelaat]

@@gmcjetpilot I sell PT6A maintenance and in can tell you an all inclusive (oem approved) flat rate overhaul for 67B at 460k can not be done. 460k is probably closer to the average 67B overhaul price. They can end up at 600k or even higher.

[@gmcjetpilot]

@@stephandelaat What is it? Can or can't be done for $460K? You contradicted yourself. Did you think I said 460 dollars? Ha ha. If you have a crack in combustor or turbine cost can go way up. I have 35 yrs in turbine aircraft cert, maintenance and operations, mechanical engineer, ATP with 6 types. If you can (apparently) buy a new PT6 for $1M (M means million) then yes you can get an overhaul for much less. Your Apology to me accepted.

[@2K9s]

Engine not a motor.

[@jimhumphrey]

These numbers will never enter into anything I do in this lifetime. But I'm watching this for the second time. I watched Mark's video. But no matter I just love to listen to you guys talk about your airplanes.

[@noanyobiseniss7462]

Will never own something this nice and will probably never fulfill my dream of owning a plane period and yet found this video captivating! Great job Mark.

[@jackdotzman2908]

It’s very interesting to learn what it cost to fly your anirplanes and how and why you do what you do. There are not many people out there that can tell of your experiences without leaving a “better than thou” feeling in your messages. You and Mike are over the top in what you do and then to explain it to us viewers, who will never fly airplanes like you do, how you get it done is beautiful. I very much enjoyed my flying days in the Beech Sundowner, I can only imagine what it like to fly one of your airplanes. Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences with your viewers. Flying is flying, some fly jets, some fly ultralights, and some fly all the stuff in between. It’s all about the love of airplanes and flying. From Missouri, Jack

[@pnorva]

Watched the full video just because both of your enthusiasm and passion for aviation is contagious. I’m just an Army Helo (AH-64D) pilot who flies general aviation when I get a chance. I can appreciate it when I don’t have to pay out of pocket for both scheduled or unscheduled maintenance on these helicopters. So it’s amazing to me that someone like yourselves can afford that much. Maybe I’ll never get there (which is ok), but I’ll continue to watch your videos and live my vicariously thru yours. Back to work!

[@DakotaTrucker]

I sure didn't think that was boring. I'm not a pilot, I'm not an aircraft owner, nor am I an aircraft mechanic. I am a Patey enthusiast, and seeing how passionate Mark is on this subject makes it interesting. But then again, I enjoyed reading Encyclopedias as a child

[@randallparker8477]

Knowing "the numbers" is what makes the name Patey mean success. Great job Mark! PAPA all the way!

[@B3ARPA73]

That’s why we love watching your channel. By breaking down the numbers, you are giving everyone real data and not just all emotion. You have plenty of that to spare as well but each post is exceptionally thought through. Keep on sharing.

[@ginvr]

Watched this on Marks channel, Just watched it again here. Great video, Hearing how excited mark was to give those beautiful numbers was worth the time to hear it again

[@vittoesmith1]

I am not a pilot but love airplanes. My wife and I were hosting a RV park in Iron River, Michigan. Krist Oil Co. had a PC-12 flying out of a very short runway in Stambaugh, Michigan. He flew directly over us in the park. Got quite a few pictures of him taking off and landing. Great Airplane.

[@garyflint1793]

I’d watch even if I wasn’t an enthusiast of aviation. Just to see the enthusiasm, passion and happiness of you both makes it worth watching. Keep smiling- love to see it!

[@k5edd128]

Smiling! Galveston, TX: Was raised on a ranch just about 50 miles from there. My uncle and aunt owned a bay house there, and we got to go play as kids.

[@douglasyoung1955]

Mark showed up in Sedona this week with that B E A utiful bird. It was a pleasure meeting you!

[@Jimmypupkin]

This video was way out of my wheelhouse but your excitement kept me on the edge of my seat!!

[@davidrobins4025]

Your explanation of the process you are following makes total sense - NEW for OLD with less expense and better quality. I like the way you and Mike think.

[@gls9902]

WELL THAT cinches it, I'm getting a Pilatus and upgrading the engine like this! The numbers and the increased simplicity of flying ~ done deal. Thanks Mike and Mark for your outstanding contribution to aviation, YES ! !

[@jimsodowsky1298]

As an FAA Certified pilot and A&P Technician all of Mark;s explanation makes sense.

[@golfbravowhiskey8669]

I think watching it the second time you get to see how excited Mark is. I’m about two hours by car north of Galveston right at the Leona Vor.

[@whatnextjoe]

The experience you share with us is worth the time we spend with you on KZbin, Thanks Mike And Mark for sharing! love your channel.

[@terrancestodolka4829]

Great information. The low down is apples to apples, not the oranges, bananas, or pineapples... Time speed, temperature, altitude...and most important Fuel burn per setting... The added value and of safety and ease of operation as you point out is "Priceless"... Thanks Mike to all of us gearhead airplane numbers pilots out there... We devour POA for the gold in them...

[@rdyer8764]

You were right. I couldn't care less about the details you mentioned. BUT what I did enjoy hearing about is all the various considerations that you talked about as a pilot. As you can tell, I'm not one, but I am a fan of technical knowledge, and it always gets my motor revved to hear the kinds of things that other smart people have to deal with. So thanks!! It was well worth my time.

[@richardmurrayjr.2338]

Mike, of course it was worth it. You two already engineered that decision to death I’m sure before dropping the 1M. Love you guys, get back to work!😂

[@shamu3838]

The first flight will be extremely exciting. Way cool. I love the best tug for my Columbia 350 that I purchased from you. I push and pull my hanger door open and shut with it too! Great design!

[@stevehammond7485]

I did watch Mark's vid but it's great to see you add one. Thanks Mikey!

[@benschrader238]

Your explanation covers what the poor pilot was trying to manage in the Pilates medical flight accident. God bless them all. Thanks for the info

[@jamesburns2232]

The NTSB made it appear as if the Pilates medical flight accident was caused by inflight breakup or structural failure in which case the pilots were not the cause of their demise. 🤔🧐😳

[@OnceShy_TwiceBitten]

@@jamesburns2232 can you elaborate? I have not heard of that one? Maybe a paragraph of everything?

[@jamesburns2232]

@@OnceShy_TwiceBitten You need to contact Dan Grider from Probable Cause. He can explain it much better than I can.

[@jalenunruh8837]

Yeah we're gonna need a few shots of Perry in your video outro Mike!! It's officially been Pateyized!

[@cspruitt3190]

Those 2 episodes should be used in a lecture series. Very well done. Thank you

[@geraldhancotte7887]

Great job Mark..! Love the paint job on Perry.

[@speedypt]

That was an AMAZING and easy to understand update. Thanks Mark (and Mike). Love your content and living vicariously through you both!

[@philcourteney4328]

I first fell in love with an aircraft when I started skydiving, our PC6 EC-KGD 🥰 love the pilatus style, they all look beautiful!

[@f-godz3342]

Same. F-GODZ 🤘

[@philcourteney4328]

@@f-godz3342 YES MATE! Iconic Jumpship 😜🤘 I’ve never been to BK, but EVERYONE knows that plane 😁

[@alcurmudgen3345]

You loved it sooooo much, you jumped out? 😂

[@davidchristensen2898]

I am not a pilot but that whole video was fantastic to watch ! I can grasp less drag at higher altitude and better fuel consumption, more power in reserve for emergencies, fascinating stuff ! Thank you for all the information !

[@ss442es]

That's awesome and makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation, It's good that you are spending long cruise time collecting data instead of just going for the ride so that you can make this stuff work. Don't ever lose the spirit of blasting around the mountains and valleys of Utah with friends just having fun flying with some cool music. We enjoy watching that too. Thanks!

[@Andykev]

This was enjoyable to see how you have "thought engineered" all of the numbers for betterment of the flight, costs, and safety. Great!!

[@cousteaufan]

Hi Mark, I love your in depth data analysis. I noticed a small error around 4:21 in your video where you talk about the max continuous temp of 820 while on the screen it says 840 for the Papa engine. Not trying to be picky, just trying to help.Again: thank you so much for sharing all of this. You guys take awesomeness to a whole new level. 👍

[@801pilot]

Thanks. Yup you’re right, I said it correctly but there is a typo 👍

[@PhilG999]

As a Mechanical Engineer (now retired) I am always interested in engines and things they go in! Sadly, most of my professional career was involved in Forensic Failure Analysis of those where the internals decided they didn't want to play nice with each other anymore! ☹

[@TomGS]

So, you studied what happened when internal combustion transitions to external combustion... Ferrari might want to have a word. Lol

[@PhilG999]

@@TomGS Actually most of the ones *I* dealt with were German Diesels. Ones that usually were run low or out of oil, and then run to destruction. 😡

[@danielc9312]

It may have seemed boring to you but as one consumer of millions that benefit from people like you doing that work thanks :)

[@TomGS]

@@danielc9312 ditto

[@RadDadisRad]

@@PhilG999 the design engineers call that unscheduled rapid disassembly a feature not a bug. 😂 as an automation engineer I’d say that it was purely mechanical related. 😂

[@WalkingTrashcan]

As a person who isnt really into aviation (i mean I do watch this channel and find it very interesting but that’s about the extent of my interest) and didnt even know what a Pilatus is until a week or so ago, I still really enjoyed this video. I guess I just really like numbers.

[@jugglinglessons]

I watched this on Mark's channel, thanks for reposting. Good data!

[@SmittySmithsonite]

Faster AND less workload? Can't beat that! Plus I'm sure you can be off the runway & clearing obstacles quicker, too. Probably not as much of a factor out West as it is up here in the Northeast with trees and wires everywhere, but still an added bonus nonetheless! Thanks for the breakdown, Mark. I love that aircraft!! 👍😎👍

[@tomenglish8554]

Keep it coming, Mike. Thanks for mixing it up. See you in the sky's.

[@johnreed8872]

Some take off and runway length numbers would be awesome, thanks for the update!

[@1225drob]

I loved his energy in this video. Obviously very pleased and excited about the upgrade👍

[@fetchit55]

I enjoyed and understood more of Mark’s thinking this second time watching the video. Thanks for the repeat! Pilatus is my favorite dream plane. 😊

[@Qualitymobilevideo]

PC12 is a dream airplane, hopefully in my future!

[@johnp9773]

Cool video. Mark is intense in a different way. He’s not messing around

[@daverohn383]

I'm a Cessna guy. Those stats are WAY outta my league!

[@flyingrock2682]

After seeing a ton of pilatus at work, this is insane hearing about the difference. With all of the modifications you have already done, do you have the door handle upgrade to make it flush with the side, and I believe there is also a speed nose that will also grab you a few more knots. The nose is rare and I have only seen 2 of them. I feel like the whole experience of having it done and a new feeling for the plane is great for piloting! Keep up the good work!!!

[@flyingrock2682]

I do remember both of the speed noses I have seen were on legacy pc12. I don’t know if there is a restriction because of a different engine from not seeing it on the ng.

[@lockedin60]

Not that I understood everything but what I understood sounds awesome. Glad the results that you are getting is making the most sense. But I don't expect Mark and you doing anything without looking at the numbers. Numbers can lie if not use by the right person. But they can tell stories and prove things that estimates can never tell you. Great job guys.

[@MonkPetite]

Mark, you did a perfect explanation. It’s so good I can use it in my lectures at aviation college 😊. Obviously the climbing part is what makes thermal difference performance wise. Nice to see your able to gain some more cruise speed. But getting there the easy way makes grade. I have flown loads of multi engine pt6 planes and yes we set those energies not to exceed red line ever. We gave up some speed / performance to make some space for cockpit management. Luckily some newer planes made life better by upgrade like yours Congratulations 👏

[@91rss]

fresh wax job helps you as well. and protecting the boots with age master really helps, You can resell the old engine, you have no bulletins to go or be having to do soon on a legacy engine if you can get parts my friend said

[@jefffrank48]

Excellent Analysis! Definitely worth it! For me, the improved Pilot Workload is the real win.

[@alainmartel119]

Great to learn from a customer that we did a good job with this new epecs engine

[@ben3989]

I like your relative breakdowns of Eng temp and weight variables. I find that very interesting.

[@Agwings1960]

Anytime they invite you to be a guest speaker at Oshkosh, you've made the big time in aviation.

[@RWBHere]

These two videos are on both channels, with minor differences. Thanks guys.

[@Arturo-lapaz]

Mike, please watch the latest accident update, the update, not just the report of the Pilatus PC-12 in flight breakup . In my opinion the breakup was caused by rotational flutter of the vertical stabilizer, with the separation oh the horizontal stabilizer . Flutter depends on true airspeed not IAS, At altitude that is the case , Remember the redline speed , VNE is always given in CAS ~ IAS with a margin about 15% below the design limit, also CAS. At 18000 feet TAS is 33% higher than IAS. You are then exceeding the flutter inception speed by 18% when flying at VNE, all the structural margins are lost Since your TAS is increased considerably at altitude with the new engine, your probability of encountering flutter are increased even if flown 20% below VNE. Personal experience with HB-YBI, designed by Bircher , EFF 'Prometheus' where I did the structural analysis and flight test. Watch Blancolirio's recent update and my comments.

[@Arturo-lapaz]

At 22000 feet the TAS is 1.41 × IAS at 33000, where I used to fly, TAS is 1.73 × IAS your CAS defined redline is no protection against TAS dependent flutter. Do not descend at high IAS at altitude, think about it . The built in margin in VNE is eliminated at 9000 feet against flutter. Just to mention : Pilatus is the name of a Mountain near by, where a cable car leads up to the peak of ( peeh laa tus )

[@dreadog6425]

You killed it on the numbers, I can see no reason not to do the upgrade. That was awesome.

[@22airjordan1]

The 67P motor is absolutely a great investment and upgrade for multiple reason in the PC-12. I've managed the upgrade in a few PC-12's and have many hours in the NG. Higher ITT temp available, dual 300 amp Gens. In the PC-12/45 airplanes and earlier I usually set the max temp around 715 to 720 reaching around 15,000 feet. With the 67P motor you can set the ITT at 800 and leave it there all the way to cruise. The only issue to speak to your A&P is the electrical system. The legacy PC-12 has a 300 amp Gen 1 and 115 amp Gen 2. The upgrade now gives you dual 300 amp gens. Either Gen can supply power to the entire aircraft and the legacy aircrafts electrical systems logic isn't set up for that. And possibly the older aircraft have a single battery electrical system depending on the age of the airplane. That will be an obviously lighter airplane. Some I've flown don't even have the Air Conditioning system in the equipment bay. Something to ponder and think about.

[@stejac51]

... very interesting ... whilst I have not flown the PC12 I have flown the Leonardo 139 with the Heli versions of this engine ... the digital fuel controls just offer so much more from the aircraft ... I can so understand the enthusiasm ... nice stuff !

[@DutchKC9UOD]

Got to love this guy! Pushing the tech in flying! Now I regret not taking almost free flight lessons in the Air Force in 1973

[@troymholmanify]

I love the honesty upfront. I'm still watching, though :D

[@JMC9837]

If my memory serves me right you mentioned that the papa motor goes to 5000 hours before major overhaul compared to the bravo only doing 3500. You compared them as the same TBO but that 1500 hours makes a huge difference when figuring the the cost from just overhauling the bravo! Also, what about down time? Because, with my experience of you have to pull the engine off and send it out to be rebuilt the down time is unknown, having a new engine to slap in as soon as the other comes out and putting it back in the air had to be a huge bonus. Love you brothers having the time of your life and bringing us all along for the ride! Mark, have you come up with your "get back to work line yet"?

[@801pilot]

The new motor, IF equipped with FADEC has 5000 TBO, without FADEC its 3,600

[@JMC9837]

@@801pilot OK, I guess I didn't realize that wasn't part of the upgrade. I stand corrected. Appreciate your time catching me up, thanks.

[@NovejSpeed3]

I can't remember his name but I'm subscribed to a guy who was a A&P at Surf Air. He said their pilots always preferred flying the Legacy birds over the NGs because they were quicker. He said even though the NGs had a more powerful engine it was negated by the heft of that Honeywell Primus and all its videocards.....(Which he showed are located underneath the cabin floor by the way lol) He always said the NG motor in the Legacy bird would be a hot rod!!!

[@cousteaufan]

These data-analysis videos deserve a separate KZbin channel! Very very very interesting.

[@insolentstickleback3266]

Great video Mark! Also, the Pilatus looks sexy as heck in that new paint, really nice look on that sleek airframe!

[@kaleheidke5232]

So smart so easy to listen to, bonus is I can understand your math/plane limits and peaks.! Legend thanks the more times I watch the more I learn.! Thank you

[@glock19gen3]

Love these different vids! Keep them coming

[@OldPackMule]

Mike, even as a non-pilot engineer I learned a lot about aviation just from listening.

[@andrewagner2035]

Greetings from Cape Town. Although your numbers refer to the PC12, your presentation can be used on how to consider an STC for any aircraft, and work the numbers to see if it’s a worthwhile proposition. Nice video.

[@F1fan007]

Excellent brief on the decision path to get a new motor. Pratt and Whitney is going to sell a gob of these puppies due to your video!

[@zzwcpj]

I don't own, or fly but watched the whole video because I like details and stats....... Pretty cool............

[@jublejones9983]

It would be amazing to see the real time cockpit calculations during flight. Excellent content

[@UnbeatenPath1]

I used to fly the legacy and ng, but not the new NGX. The NG had way more get up, and the 5 blade prop we had on some of the NGs added another 50-100 fpm on the climb. Believe it or not though I actually preferred the legacy in the hot summer months because you didn't have to wait 30 seconds or more in a 110+ degree flight deck for the Honeywell to boot up so you could start the motor, but I wasn't paying the bills either. The new flight deck was amazing though

[@andrew.mccarter]

Explained so well im not a plane engine guy but i totally understood that

[@Joe-qj7oh]

Upgrades are always worth it, know matter what it is, plane, or any other vehicle, if it makes it safer, more relaxed to use, more reliable, you feel more confident, and safer in using it, (lot less stress).

[@jamesbizs]

LOL what? An upgrade in no way means all those things you mentioned. Can it? Sure. Does it? No. I upgraded my car many times. Not only did almost none of them so the things you mentioned, many of them did the opposite.

[@WeBeGood06]

All the Numbers, what altitude was the Coffin Corner with the new engine? Max Altitude, where you push forward on Stick and go down. Pull back on the Stick and go down?

[@801pilot]

It Never gets there. The PC12 is limited to 30,000 feet.

[@jdkenyon]

The passion shown between both Mike and Mark is incredible. Thank you for sharing your talents with the world.

[@johnp9773]

Pateys explaining hurts

[@darrenmiller5893]

Transitioning from the Classic Dash8 to the Q400 - the easyDash 👍🏻😃 same deal. Good decision Mark!

[@YardLimit]

Thanks for giving us the details!

[@Smokkedandslammed]

Oh dang, ill have to keep an eye out for a bunch of 💪's being thrown around next time I'm working in Galvestoon!

[@GaryMCurran]

I'm not really surprised at why Mark is so excited about the Papa upgrade. As to the price delta, it makes sense. If you have the money to purchase, fly and maintain a PC-12, then that extra $350,000 is not a deal-breaker. On top of that higher altitude, better fuel burn per mile, what's not to like. Mike/Mark, what I really want to see, and we caught a glimpse of it at the beginning of the video, is the new paint and new avionics! I do like 'Perry' where it used to be 'Pilatus', though. 😁🤣🥰😍

[@vitordelima]

Maybe a STC for the PT6E would be another next upgrade with a comparable impact.

[@larryehrlich57]

An aft CG will always gain you a couple of knots compared to a forward CG in general aviation aircraft. In my Cessna 182, I gain two knots. I flew MD-11's for a living and the fuel savings for an aft cg were impressive compared to a forward cg. Blue skys!

[@eiselbay]

that was awesome! Thanks Mark!

[@MichaelSmith-eq5lf]

well done , loved the numbers crunching

[@gtr1952]

Thanks Mark/Mike!! I'm a big nerd so I listened to ever word and loved it! I could have 1k questions, but the big one is, why not go to a PC24? It's PC12 based, still STOL and single pilot, but does everything even faster/better than the new motor! The PC12 resale value is excellent, factor in the 1M upgrade and it's not that much more considering what you get!?! I believe it's even more FADEC and has auto-throttles to! The climb and cruse is faster also!?! Great video, thanks much!! 8) --gary

[@mellissus]

Hey great to hear, but you can also count the 3th overhaul of the B will be way more expensive compared to the first P that would have been hit around the same time that's also a win

[@nwanchorcertification]

I wanted to come say hello in Seattle today but I have to do the work rule it was a long day any ways super cool video hopefully I will have the opertunity to meet you fellows one day safe travels

[@ErikssonTord_2]

Fantastic summing up on the upgrade, loved it!

[@chrisanderson4799]

I have over 11,300 hrs of which 5,000+ is in Pilatus Aircraft. 1,000 Legacy PC-12/45 & /47, 2,700 hrs in the PC12/47E NG, and about 50 in the PC-12/47 NGX along with about 1,300 hits in the PC-24 As you mentioned weight makes a big difference in the PC-12 along with CG. A aft CG, still in the envelope, will yield a faster cruise than a forward CG. I fly book TQ most of the time which equals 720 ITT in a Legacy and 780 ITT in a NG. One airplane I fly, a 1997 Legacy, is a lightweight bird. It’s only 6,151# empty. That’s with G600 TXI, 650/750 stack, and 6 executive seats and a 5 blade MT. That air will cruise at 263 all day long at 720 ITT. I also fly a NG with a 7 blade MT. It climbs amazing, takes off and lands short, but we lost 3-5 knots in cruise over the 4 blade we replaced.

[@jasoncbrothers]

So cool that you guys have a home in Galveston too. Please keep in touch as we are also thinking of getting another home there as well. We live in Reno but all of our family are in TX.

[@dave-wk4t]

Glad THIS PC12 is okay and everyone is safe. Sad about crash in Vegas

[@guybourassa8437]

New is more reliable than rebuilt, plus it was an upgrade in technology and power, you made the right choice.

[@wh5476]

I miss Draco and the PT6 yall head in it . yall two brothers are amazing

[@FutureSystem738]

Thanks Mark, thanks Mike, great stuff! Big 👍

[@thetexianpatriot2201]

Good Morning,Mike and Mark!

[@2K9s]

Really appreciate your breakdown of the numbers, specifically how you explained cost to rebuild and fuel burn. Engine size is relative to weight. Ex. Ford ecoboost engines are great but think the 2.7 f150 is too small for a fully loaded truck therefore fuel economy suffers. Plus I have dyscalculia so your explanations include the process of your shakedown(s) make total sense. Thank you.

[@davewilliams639]

Awesome fact filled video....Thank You!