2.5 NA Diesel runs. But is it fixed?

/ britrest
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Britannica Restorations Ltd
9 Ch. Rawson
Sherbrooke
Quebec
J1M2A3
Canada

[@PillSharks]

I honesty thought it as going to be one of those jobs where you bang it all back together and it’s fixed without you knowing what it was! You can’t leave it now Mike... the world is watching!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Yeap that's what I thought - head was perfect

[@johndiaz7240]

I'm not a mechanic , but reading over the comments you have some very knowledgeable viewers who wish you success , they really like you and so do I .

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Thanks John! Mike

[@harveysmith100]

I think the important next step is to get a handrail on the stairs, I would hate for Mr Jameson to have a tumble and I have a suspicion he may be around a fair bit until this problem is solved.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I think he is coming tonight!!

[@willc5911]

Would be a real shame if the owner calls it quits and we never get to see what the problem was. I have been avidly watching these 2.5 videos and it’s nice to see some content on this engine as there isn’t that much compared to the Tdi engines. Oh and I’ve been a long time watcher of your videos Mike but I’ve always somewhat lurked in the shadows never commenting. So I would like to at last put out my thanks to you for putting out such great content, you’re ace!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Thanks Will! We are all mates on this channel! Mike

[@stephenlyttleton9032]

I'm totally hooked on this 2.5 "Dr Black" drama! I think it's Colonel Mustard in the crank case with a shillelagh.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I think it is something to do with Britain going decimal.....

[@TONYJUD57]

Chucked my 2.5 NA, it did not like Hills at all, 200tdi streight in and never looked back, 300tdi defender later and its still going strong with my son in law, You have my Sympathy with that B-stard lump! as for whats wrong! i jusy cant get my head round that one, Keep up the Good Work. Al si thi.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Thanks Antony!

[@clearout5032]

I’m gutted for you mike, don’t give up if the owner still wants to continue on with it, we are all learning on this it’s a real mind boggler! Great vid! Keep em coming!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I am sure he will as we are so close!

[@marksmith8793]

My dad had the 2.5 turbo, in the end it got replaced with a 300 TDI. Stripped the 2.5 and it had 3 cracked pistons and a cracked block. Still ran ok, just needed to empty the oil out of the air filter every other week...

[@BritannicaRestorations]

They were the worst motor LR could have made - well maybe the KV6 is close!

[@cmotweasel]

Ouch, bad luck Mike! This is a proper odd bugger this, can imagine the frustration it's causing!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

keeps me off the streets!

[@nzrestoration9486]

Why don’t all us subscribers donate some money to you to pull it out to satisfy our curiosity, we can’t leave this unsolved its agony! I’m up for it.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Lol! Maybe I could ask George Soros?! Mike

[@nzrestoration9486]

Well you have 10000 subscribers! If only half pay $1 that’s enough, let’s face it we all spend more than that on a coffee each day!! You can’t keep us hanging Mike! What’s the best way a one off payment to Patreon or direct to you?

[@ruaidhriobriain]

NZ restoration , yeah I agree , a go fund me page or something and we all throw in €5. Worth considering and don’t be shy or modest, we all have to earn a living and have down time. My down time is watching you and learning, so you should get paid for the extra time you’re putting into this engine

[@trapper23ful]

i remember many years ago i built an old crossflow engine and had a similar misfire it turned out to be a single piston ring either sticking or cracked no problem with the head in anyway and a side effect was blow by of oil causing the smoking not enough to show anything much in the sense of valve guides or such the longer it ran the worse the misfire became yet next time it started no problem until it warmed up

[@smifffies]

Sticky or broken oil ring on No 3 would not affect compression readings, in fact it probably would improve it. Tear it down and check if oil ring stuck.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Could be!

[@nickboylen6873]

I rebuilt a 12J many years ago with oversize pistons, running in a SIII with 2.25 exhaust. It used to get warm on long climbs in top gear, never into the red (matched sender) but a needle’s width in the normal range. Eventually it cracked all four AE pistons. A new set with a 2”exhaust ran perfectly evermore. I didn’t have rough running with the cracked pistons, but it did pressurise the crank case with oil weeping from every seal and plug and heavy breathing. Oil on the pistons would give exhaust smoke but not breather. I think you have bad pistons, rings or bores, since you already rebuilt the head and fitted a new gasket.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

There were no cracks in these pistons, seen a lot on TD's

[@nickboylen6873]

Piston and head cracks are very common on the 19J, less so on the 12, but they will happen if the engine gets hot enough. As I said, the cause on mine was the exhaust being to small, and it never went into the red sector on the gauge, but there were hairline cracks on three pistons. They were very fine, nothing like those on my 19Js, but enough to cause heavy breathing and seal leaks. Bad rings would do much the same.

[@endlesskiteboarding]

I have the same problem with my 1996 130 defender. I am watching your videos to see how you found the problem. Will keep watching. On my 300tdi I have a problem with the tank and getting air. Waiting on the parts to arrive . When I change the tank will let you know if i have the knocking noise still.

[@auldm]

Mike this is an ideal candidate for electric vehicle conversion, EV West in the USA will supply parts/kit. Expensive but will make a great project and Make Landrovers Different. As for the fault, illogical faults are usually man made incorrectly fitted piston rings perhaps… Ok on test but failing under load long shot but The only thing left is a bore issue.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Could be rings, but no to electric - does not make any sense at the moment

[@LandersWorkshop]

@@BritannicaRestorations I think an electric conversion for lannies is a shitshow, too heavy and would drain any battery rapid, maybe as a hybrid project I guess?

[@ericwainaina9026]

Drop the cylinder head and measure end float of both piston

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Was injector problems = first set local recon - rubbish, second set new 2 Chinese, 2 new genuine - rubbish, third set, 4 x genuine - perfect

[@thelonemoomin]

It would be fascinating to find out once and for all what us wrong with the engine. My money was on the cam being stuffed. Leave it a few days, finish your most splendid balcony then get the sockets out and strip the thing down to bits.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Need to have a chat with the owner

[@thelonemoomin]

How could the owner deny an Internationally famous youtube artist the chance to fettle his landy back to health. 😉

[@richardcallison1637]

Gutted🙁 I’d have been convinced it was the top end. Wonder now if it’s the piston or rings....🤔 Don’t let it beat ya though, mate. I’m sure you’ll get to the bottom of it👍👍

[@BritannicaRestorations]

So close - everything has been eliminated now

[@andrewgreen619]

I had one that ran lumpy and we changed everything! Turned out that the return line from the pump to the filter head was blocked. i found out by accident when i forgot to re connect it at the pump.. Its worth a try for how long it takes to disconnect it..

[@billywhizz98]

Just a thought is the glow plug on No 3 staying hot enough after it’s started up to continue to ignite the fuel to certainly a mind boggling engine

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Even when hot it has a problem

[@MrRobmellor]

I know that this will sound daft Mike, But here I go. Drain the sump, wait till it is empty and then put your little finger into the drain plug hole to feel if there are any bits inside the sump. I have had bits fall out or even bloke the sump plug hole, such as the lube jets working loose, or a bit of bore skirt broken off. If a piston has a broken skirt it would not necessarily show up on a compression or leak pass test but would unbalance it enough to show up when running. Dont give up on us Mike, we are all counting on you to solve this one for us. Dont be the slave, be the master, you CAN!!!! do it. Good luck with this one, and remember that you will have something to put on the tee-shirts about this (LOL) Best wishes, Yorkshire ROB.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Rob - I would like to pull this motor and do it completely - I do not think it is a huge parts bill but I will see what the customer wants to do

[@MrRobmellor]

I think that you were near to the mark when you said that someone else had been at this motor. You seem to have inherited a right mess Mike. Just to get to the bottom of what is going on and put it in a memory box for future reference, if the customer says leave it as he has had enough, I would offer to run it on the ramps and drop the sump free of any further charges. That way you would have covered practically all that you can have done. This way I can start to sleep at night and not worry about this motor again. Best wishes and good luck with this project. Yorkshire Rob.

[@mortimergould3582]

Thats how i feel about my 2.5, boat anchor. Still won't run. Id take it out and swap it but I swapped it in to replace my 2.25 diesel.

[@RGKnightandSon]

You've got me hooked with this thing! I'd be taking it for a blast up the road and blow it's cobweds out now. What's the injector pipes sound like when you lodge a piece of steel rod on them and press it to your ear?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Will try tomorrow

[@tonypacke6954]

I think your first port of call is to have a chat with the owner. Is he aware of what has been done to this before or has he just bought it? I would also take it up the road and give it a good thrashing to see if it really does go or that annoying misfire is reducing power. To me it sounds like a usual noisy diesel. It will probably run like that for the next 100,000 miles.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

when you have a low cylinder or a poor power cylinder, that drags on the overall power and has less contribution to overall power

[@amosburton5227]

If the customer is happy to go down that route, I think I'd be inclined to have the crank an pistons for inspection I'm leaning towards rings or possibly mismatched piston and Rod though I could easily be wrong Steve

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I think you are on the right track Steve - it needs puling and stripping

[@malcolmyoung7866]

'Back heeled by so many people who can't fix it...' YOU KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.....

[@jamessmith4065]

Could it be a connecting rod at a different weight ? Say if one had gone and been replaced with a newer version

[@peterhixon4713]

I think this has been in water at some time and it has hydraulic’d and bent the Conrod slightly on 3 putting the time out , just a thought as I had it in the past 🤔

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I would have seen a low piston - they were all the same height

[@peterhedison2141]

I had a 21/4 diesel it smoked ran a bit rough went through everything all it turned to be was the timing chain slightly warn, guess you have checked that though interesting stuff

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I had a 2.25 back in the day - bugger to start but was good on power and fuel - timing problem

[@bazasulli4975]

I've only finished IMI level 3 at collage so my knowledge isn't as vast as most people here but from what I have learned even I'm a bit stumped with the N/A. Time for a 300Tdi me thinks.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I will get to the bottom of this!

[@bazasulli4975]

@@BritannicaRestorations Oh I don't debout. I am really interested to see what is actually wrong with it.

[@edd6113]

Miss matched pistons, but not sure how it would give good compression readings. Can you put pump timing out 180 and swap injector pipes? Test for sure that pump is OK?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

The piston crowns have the factory grades on them so they are original But tricky to bend the pipes

[@weaton25]

If it was me I think put some new oil in it and give it a good blast up the road for about 10 miles cannot do any harm and it just may clear the problem.

[@LandersWorkshop]

I think the only way is a tear-down unfortunately. It's a real inner-gremlin that won't come out easily.

[@PyreneanExplorers]

NO WAY Jos'e ! ...I really thought you'd cracked it...(no pun intended) .. piston/rings on no 3 .. what else can it be... I'm flumoxed,. You've got patients Mike. 28 degrees, you're lucky, it touch bloody 40 here.. Cheers Wayne

[@BritannicaRestorations]

28C but 55% Humidity!

[@richardcox9981]

gotta be piston or rings every thing else has been done .unless its blowby on the valve guides did the valves get lapped in ?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Yes vales were perfect!

[@tomeucardell]

Hi Mike, I own one Santana with a 2.5 NA. The only thing that could be in my opinion is a problem with the eccentric shaft. It would only afect the third piston and all the cheks done before would be fine with this problem, is'nt it? May be it make sense... hope to fix that engine.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I will see if the customer wants me to pull the motor - I an sure it is something stupid

[@GregPalmer2]

Hopefully you crack tested the head,if 3 and 2 cylinder are playing up maybe you have cracks somewhere in between them two cylinders on block.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

No crack in the head

[@rainerdetering3196]

Hi Mike! Just a stupid idea, but couldn't it be the 'new' injector pump which could be faulty on the third and fourth? The injectors were also faulty - no doubt. In my opinion it was a combination of two faulty injectors and faulty injector pump. cracked piston doesn't sound logic to me.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

New injectors fitted and it ran perfect!

[@JosiahTech]

I had a Disco 2 with a misfire problem. Did plugs, did coils, verified injectors, and so on. I finally found that a spark wire had burst and was grounding to the block. Perhaps a similar situation? Perhaps checking the wiring to the injectors and glow plugs for ground is a decent idea?

[@cmotweasel]

Everything before the D2 TD5 was mechanical fuel injection, no wiring to cause issues!

[@JosiahTech]

Huh, that's awesome. Alrighty then, probably not that I guess 😄

[@ScorpioxA1]

Good day at work we have a diesel hudson shunter that can lift off the rail with hydrolics butt in last year it was running unevenly after alot of changing filters and alot off work by our milwright it stil wasent running right i actualy saw a youtube video about air in the diesel line so i asked him if all the air was out of the system he said yes he bled it a thew times already but when it ran it started running uneven after a while of ideling so i asked him if the lines dont have a hole he said no it is rubber pipes with that material covering on it well at the end of the day one pipe did have a litle hole in what was so small underneath the material it actualy draw air in and it made the engine run uneven its stil running corectly till today after he replaced the hose he just said you were right ..... it was a hose it had a very small hole in it he couldent see it due to the material covering

[@BritannicaRestorations]

This is why I pressurise the tank to look for air leaks

[@cameronmcalister4376]

This is more compelling viewing than a Hercule Poirot murder mystery. Was it using coolant (was no. 3 pot clean). On the compression test, did each cylinder take the same number of strokes to achieve pressure given they were close. Just a thought. Cheers Mike

[@BritannicaRestorations]

No coolant used Compression test done twice all about even

[@pauldollin8807]

Its been m ucked about with whats the chance that number three is a petrol con rod, same length but lighter.

[@aaronsmyth1332]

If it’s the third injector could it be the pipe from the pump to the injector. My engine was smoking at first because it had been overfilled on oil and once I had emptied it the smoke had stopped

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Pipes are fine - I even blew though them!

[@procta2343]

I am with you on this mike, I would pull that thing out and have a closer look at the bottom end. There has to be something daft going on with the bottom end. When I have computers in the past start acting the goat, I have pulled the system to pieces, everything out, and started again. I have found its been something daft, that I have done in the past. Fixed it and its ran like new. Could it be the same here? someone has played with it in the past and something is not tightened down in the bottom end etc?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I have no idea of the history of this truck - came as a non runner

[@jamescunliffe9872]

Electric forklift motor could be interesting,probably doesn't require a gearbox?

[@gvaly699]

Actually to me is not the same like before - injection is right now .The crankcase smoke is there because injectors are all working . Did you check the pistons rings ? If those are combustion gases (I cannot be sure from video - oil vapours or smoke ) than it could be indeed a cracked piston (but it would be visible) or more like jammed piston rings - usually happen when injection is bad in a certain cylinder .

[@BritannicaRestorations]

No piston cracks

[@gvaly699]

Myself also I would incline on piston rings . Actually you could try to change the engine oil with something with good detergent proprieties (I used Caterpillar CAT DEO , but you can have any good quality engine oil ) and run the engine with some 40-50% load - uphill or tow something - sometimes they burn enough to free the rings (considering the rings are not damaged ) - it will smoke a bit on exhaust and will start to smell like burned coal but it can unlock the rings . It is possible now , with functional injectors .

[@therealswarvey]

I'm not too familiar with Diesels, but I can't help but wonder what condition the big end is in. I had mechanics swear the big end in my 3.5 was fine, but replacing the shells made a world of difference. Is there an oil spray under the piston on those? Could the number three bore be running dry of oil, causing lack of compression when warm? I'm thinking blocked oil passage, dry cylinder, old rings not sealing as good, loss of compression / blowby

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I doubt it is bearing problems as I would have expected marks on top of the piston - even carbon marks This needs a full strip down

[@347lbs]

Mike, watching this video got me thinking; seeing that smoke (quite a bit I thought) is this engine at risk of running away in this state? My question, if you've ever seen it happen, how would you stop it? I'd never heard of diesels running away until a few years ago and now it's something I try to consider as to how I would attempt to bring it to a halt or leg it like a yellow streak of lilly livered wuss that I think I may be as the engine shakes itself to pieces...

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Ha! I had a Jeep Comanche with a Renault diesel do this years ago - I jammed it in gear and stalled it - was quite smokey!

[@hammyh1165]

Has it the correct sized and part numbered timing gears on it ? . maybe someone has played with them in the past.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

They are fine - timing good or it would not start so good

[@roboneoff2204]

If it was a cracked piston, would that not have show in the compression test ? Do u think its had new rings ?, and just maybe on 3 they installed one upside down ? Seen it once before on an old pinto engine that still showed good compression !

[@347lbs]

Can you fit a ring upside-down? I've only changed rings once on an old petrol and I honestly don't remember them being whatever the up and down version of handed would be. They might have been and I have forgotten that detail completely. In a similar vein +Britannica Restorations Ltd, could this be a classic case of glazing on the cylinders?

[@roboneoff2204]

Im not to sure on these engines but on some ring sets they do have markers for fitting correctly. Im sure Mike will know.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

When I did a compression test it was the same a C1 and C2 However if Bob is reading this, many years ago his dad build a motor and fitted C1 and C4 to rings upside down - it would not turn over!

[@ferretboy221]

Whats the induction pulsing about?...or is it just the mic picking up a random noise?

[@ferretboy221]

And does it get a lot worse without the air filter in place?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

It will be my mic

[@rayw9067]

Has it been under water and has a slightly bent rod? I’ve had this a few times on various Diesel engines over my time sometimes to small to see by eye. Also I’ve seen stretched rods in a few run away cummins engines

[@888johnmac]

when the head was off he put a dial gauge on each cylinder & all same so doubtful …. this engine is a real mystery , I along with most subscribers are now dying to know the problem … you can't give up mike

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I really would like to get to the bottom of this - I would replace the cam, check the shaft balance and rod weights also new rings - someone has been at this before but I have no history

[@rayw9067]

What about a partially blocked injector line

[@chasephotos4780]

Could #3 have a mismatched or slightly bent or even marginally shorter connecting rod? This might explain the lower compression.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I out a DTI on the pistons and they are all the same height

[@chasephotos4780]

@@BritannicaRestorations I guess that just leaves rings and bearings on #3; or what if the piston cooling jet for #3 was compromised? There are not many more bits to check!

[@darrendavidson9645]

Could it even be wrong piston slightly over or under though you would hear a squeal

[@BritannicaRestorations]

they need to be removed!

[@thecolliman7674]

Agggh it’s frustrating just pull it

[@grahamsmith2039]

Could it be weak , stuck or broken rings on number 3 or 4 mike? Or glazed cylinders from over heating, I remember my old mk2 escort over heated due to a water leak , afterwards it had really bad crank case back pressure

[@BritannicaRestorations]

The back pressure has to be piston related as the valves were perfect This motor needs a complete strip down I sent you a link for a video here but maybe you didn't get the email kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2bWfWysnLiih6M

[@grahamsmith2039]

Britannica Restorations Ltd looks good mike, ive had it a while but I never did anything with it but I knew exactly the best home for it

[@grahamsmith2039]

Britannica Restorations Ltd it looks worse when number 1 is cracked off , very frustrating

[@marksmith5156]

I dont think with what you checked so far even taking it back to the bare block will you find anything wrong with piston and bore measurements prob all within a tolerance of each other

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Maybe but now rather curious!

[@marksmith5156]

@@BritannicaRestorations that's got me a miss fire you cant find it's not a if its electronic or a complicated engine to work on all seems present and correct I'm watching to find out what it could be I have no idea either

[@greebo7857]

Did you swap the injector pipes off your other engine? There isn't really much left. Maybe a broken oil ring??? Shouldn't make it misfire though.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Pipes made zero difference!

[@greebo7857]

@@BritannicaRestorations OK, so much for that theory.... How much confidence do you have in the shop you took the "poomp" to? You've eliminated everything else.

[@karlhrdylicka]

That engine is rite bugger Mike, putting on a brave face and laughing about it as it's enough to make anyone want give up and abandon more costly investigation . somehow I don't think you will let it beat you .Is it back together enough to let it run on fast idle for half an hour , see if it does anything different when its at running temp .

[@BritannicaRestorations]

It needs pulling out and stripping - this is a back heel job from the beginning - bought as a non runner - no history

[@tokomac7728]

High pressure pump issue

[@BritannicaRestorations]

bad injectors

[@paulconnelly8369]

could it have a crack rings on number three with the mount of blow by

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Possible!

[@robertcruickshank5617]

Give you a chance to see #1 that bled off too.

[@ralphplant]

It could still be the cam if that was faulty from the factory, could it not? The lobes measured fine and you did say that twisting was unlikely in the engine, but what if was manufactured out of alignment? Unlikely I suppose.

[@ralphplant]

But this wouldn't explain the smoking crankcase. Yes, you are right. Needs a strip down to look at the pistons and rings.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Agreed!

[@petej536]

what does it drive like now? it came in as a non runner, it runs now :) Going to ask an ex landy mate to look at this for ideas. Is there any way when you post vids you could group them together so it's easier to watch all those that are on a specific subject.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I have made this into a playlist now - on my home page under major LR overhauls

[@leginswheels2416]

Is it the rockers or has somebody put a wrong push rod on number three🙂

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Nope the push rods are all fine

[@rosabella..threadsofpurelu4382]

I'm wondering how hard it would be to check #3 big end bearing shell whist motor in situ? If thats okay, then insure it and have a fire sale with a "special" you tube Britannica Restorations video event!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

It's easy to check the bearings in situ, but very easy to pull the motor and stick it on the stand and pull it apart!

[@rosabella..threadsofpurelu4382]

@@BritannicaRestorations If the owners up to it, so be it! You could not have asked for a better "problem solving example" for a great series of videos!

[@rosabella..threadsofpurelu4382]

Or as I frequently say in my daily existence - "another character building experience!"

[@ammocraft]

Would it be too unhelpful to suggest dropping a 300TDi in it? :)

[@BritannicaRestorations]

if you can find one in Canada that is cheaper than fixing this motor!

[@ammocraft]

@@BritannicaRestorations The hours you've spent killing yourself on that motor, I reckon any imported TDi would be cheaper! I'm loving watching the diagnosis, but I'm glad I'm not you! I was sure it would be fixed after the head rebuild, new injectors, etc. even if you didn't know exactly what fixed it!!

[@PaulWoodJatobaFilms]

Sounds like a bad case of the gremlins- just needs leaving alone in a quiet place for a week or two......

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Very tempting to shoot it! lol! Mike

[@ashleyparry2470]

with the head being so fresh it must have been removed for a reason, Im thinking a connecting rod

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Could be!

[@richied4775]

Bent Conrod for my two pence.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Or wrong rod? Petrol one?

[@richied4775]

@@BritannicaRestorations Did you measure the piston stand down height when the head was off?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Yes

[@coyote5735]

Go away and let your subconscious brain work on it. My gut tells me it's that pump!!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Pump was tested and had a 100% certification it was as good as new

[@rainerdetering3196]

that must be wrong

[@gmoose777]

engine swap the 300tdi from your vortec project then pull the 2.5 down in down time to satisfy your/our curiosity, my bet is cracked rings on nbr 3

[@BritannicaRestorations]

it was bad injectors see here kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4uafqF8g6aFhpI

[@goodweek1965]

Bent rocker....

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Nope

[@danielhuckerby8687]

I'm surprised you still have Hair

[@BritannicaRestorations]

It's going quickly now!