Update on the shakin' Defender 2.5 NA diesel engine (it gets worse!)

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Britannica Restorations Ltd
9 Ch. Rawson
Sherbrooke
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J1M2A3
Canada

[@paulp5687]

Looking forward to see what you do with 2.5 d, as I've nearly finished rebuilding my 2.5 td engine and will be ready for start up soon, your video's will come in handy, If I come into difficulty starting. Fingers crossed 🤞

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I am sending the pump to a shop to be checked

Hi Mike 🤔 must be the pump 🤔thats my opinion

[@CHAGrady]

The fan should be a left hand thread, sounds like pump or does it have a sedimentor? That could be full of gunk and jelly.

[@alanallington1001]

Morning mike, this year I’m doing my 90n/a, enjoying these videos. I’m going the change the chassis, axles, rebuild the lt77 and lt230 this year due to the dreaded rust! Mine needs all 4 glow plugs to start propely and smokes for a minute or 2. The only problem I’ve had with the pump was leaks from o ring on the top half that I got spares for and done myself. If you need any pics give me a message as mine is here on the drive. Alan

[@BritannicaRestorations]

OK Alan! Mike

[@dmeyers975]

Mike- drop the rear axels- then drop the fuel tank- remove fuel lines- filter etc.. install new lines and clean pump. Also try smoking a pipe and sipping on some whiskey. Maybe slip into something more comfortable! While making your next video!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I am still convinced it has something to do with Britain going decimal...

[@marksmith5156]

The pump hasn't got the pressure to push the diesel through the injectors the plunges could be worn when they were tested they weren't under load as if to open the spring to spray

[@BritannicaRestorations]

It's going to the pump shop

[@solorip]

Try bleeding pump body. two bleed bolts on it

[@andrewreynolds2647]

Mike you need to rig up some kinda remote start mechanism, it will save you endless hassle keeping on have to go back and swivel the key.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Not easy when the starter is in Hades

[@garthrichert5256]

Forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but it looks( to me) like fuel starvation that has developed. Some issue between the tank and injector pump? Fuel line sucking air, fuel pump failing,, blockage in pickup pipe? Anyway, thanks a ton for your interesting videos. Amazing effort including us all.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I have an electric pump and a clean container - very easy to bleed and no air!

[@robertthornton7553]

Mike chance the pump ,it's late on 3 +4 ? Good videos . Thank god it's in your hands 🏵️

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Chinese injectors - junk

[@andrewhowton1961]

You don't need to take the front cover off other than that small round plate with the missing screw to remove the pump. As long as you have the proper tools that is.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Tdi only

[@peterpeterson9903]

Mike, one thing to remember, these were truly awful pumps. They just never seemed to give good long service, unlike the Bosch pumps which just... well, go!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Info on these pumps is very hard to find - agreed - the VE was superior

[@clivecottrell4104]

The fan is left hand thread! Still I expect you know that? There is a small boost diaphragm on the pump on the engine side, these perish. That may be the problem, but I will guess you have the job done now!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Bad injectors

[@jrgenfriborg3508]

Ok. Like your videos. Only got my LR for two weeks, but more fun that I thought I would have. I have an engine on hand for 100 $ is that a god idea. Are parts hard to find?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Not too bad - old classics like the 1991 Range Rover are hard to get

[@10beerman]

Give it a sniff of ''start you bastard'' perhaps not on video though.... Works on most reluctant and tired CAV pumps to assist bleeding when its air-locked.

[@spitfiremk1uk]

At least you have found a fault. Chase it down and sort it. Thats your only options at this point. Save removing the head until you know it still misfires with good injector system. Could try swapping the valves back but I would take off the pump and get it checked and set up and you know it is good. The last one I had done here in the UK cost nearly £900!!! Last ditch you could always try and pressure bleed using your electric pump set up?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

it is the only way now - I cannot see the motor having faults with such similar compressions and starting so well - has to be the pump

[@darland3821]

I had a similar, though not identical, problem with my 200Tdi and it turned out to be the pump timing was VERY slightly out. I checked the timing myself and it looked ok but a diesel "expert" tweaked it a bit and solved the starting / smoking / rough idle problem. Just a thought Mike.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

If the timing was off all cylinders would be lumpy - we have 2 perfect and 2 shite - injectors tested = next pump

[@jamescunliffe9872]

Is something impeading the flow from the fuel tank? Does the fuel gauge work? Clogged filter? Maybe blades on the pump have lost the key to the shaft ? Try lifting the back end up and turning the engine over with the fuel cap undone ?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Electric pump with new diesel in a clean container

[@mattluszczak8095]

Maybe take pipes off rear two injectora and blow them through first?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

They were running fine on the output test

[@greebo7857]

Which two cylinders had the odd injectors? Has someone else been chasing this issue before you? I agree that this is likely a pump thing. That test you did with the clear tubes checked volume for sure, but not pressure. I'm fascinated and want a result.

[@coyote5735]

Volume with no back pressure is not an accurate dynamic test. That pump outputs about 150 BAR only under those conditions will you be able to test the valves for back leakage. And it doesn't take much at all at those pressures.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Agreed, but there was no drain back and it showed there was equal output - it needs to go on a bed to work this out

[@hammyh1165]

Check fuel delivery to pump, it may be the fuel delivery pipes coming out of tank have corrosion.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Electric pump with diesel in a clean container

[@hammyh1165]

@@BritannicaRestorations kinda just leaves the pump at fault. Will a TDI pump not fit , they're basically the same engine but with different cylinder heads ?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

The VE Tdi pump will not fit -The CAV pump was weak

[@MrRobmellor]

Hi!!! Mike. This is getting like a sherlock holmes story, The way that it was ticking over before you changed the outlets on the pump sounded to me as if it was to far advanced, I can remember using the older type injector off the older engine on a 19J engine like this one. They looked the same , in fact they were the same body and apart from the setup of the pressures etc they could be used on this 19J engine but would run like a bag of dog defecation. SO!!! the next job in my humble opinion must be to find out if the pump is any good. It won't cost you anything to open it up and have a look around, you might see something so obvious that you can fix yourself which will cost you nout, and if you don't that will be the right time to throw it at the diesel engineers for them to have a go. When you take the front cover off, check the timing, for as you may remember me saying before, there are two type of pumps, they have the same body but are set up differently inside and are 90 degrees different in their timing, so the marking dot on the timing wheel is in a different position, so you might find that the timing appears to be 90 degrees out, when in fact it is correct, it just has the wrong wheel/ cog fitted to the pump. Well Mike I have just looked at what I have written and I think that it looks like a sherlock holmes story, sorry for the babbling. I can't wait for you to write the next instalment of this story line, I just hope that it doesn't turn out to be that someone has fitted a petrol crankshaft which has now bent, as that is what I had many years ago. ( yes they are the same , but the petrol has a ;P: stamped on it, and the diesel has ;D: on it.) Thanks for the story so far. Best wishes from Yorkshire Rob.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

it starts good Rob but the back 2 cylinders are off - compressions pretty even = I will pull the pump and send it for testing

[@nigelspencer6546]

Did you find the problem? I had exactly the same issue. It turned out to be the top throttle plate, the flats where it mates to the shaft were not engaging with the shaft, so the pump was not engaging.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

2 x bad Chinese injectors - it is in a later video

[@richardcox9981]

if I remember rightly you have a bleed screw in the top of the pump . could it be that?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Nope -I have an electric pump i line and it spews diesel 3 foot in the air through the bleeder!

[@richards091]

Could it be possible that the head gasket has blown between 3 and 4 cylinder.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

the compressions are 395 on 1 2 3 and 383 on 4 If it were a head gasket 3 and 4 would be low and the same BUT you never know!

[@nickboylen6873]

It has decent compression, so at 8oC, it should start easily without the glow plugs. If the injectors are OK, then it must be the pump. A timing issue would affect all cylinders equally, so again, pump. Water or vegoil sitting in the lowest part of the pump would do this. These CAV pumps are notoriously weak and easily damaged by running on vegoil or by corrosion from water.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Weak pumps on a weak engine - what could possibly go wrong!

[@nickboylen6873]

They were a poor choice of pump for a Land Rover. The 12J engine was pretty robust, but the 19J was poor - it just wasn't up tot he temperature and pressure of turbocharging.

[@gonzalogonzalez9567]

How hard would it be to put a 300 tdi into a disco 1 with the v8 4.0

[@BritannicaRestorations]

you can get an adaptor but the V8 auto box has different shift pattens - it is not good

[@johndiaz7240]

Sorry 😢

[@finrambo3594]

Statement of the day ;" This engines shaking like a defecating dog". LOL

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Lol! Mike

[@jrgenfriborg3508]

Hej there. Did it Got going or. Got a 1977 series 3 my self.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

No going to get the pump tested

[@coyote5735]

Well, I would surmise while changing the valves over you have either dislodged something in the pump and it's now completely blocked or something broke. Without a spare to compare you could spend hrs frigging around with it and get nowhere.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

it's going to the pump room!

[@coyote5735]

@@BritannicaRestorations You could ask Rupert!! Though these days he's off saving the galaxy...........kzbin.info/www/bejne/foq7dIB6o7uHbLM

[@BritannicaRestorations]

That was excellent!!!! - taught him well eh?

[@andrewhowton1961]

Not likely the problem but I've also seen ex BATUS 2.5na diesels run badly after running winter diesel in them, it tends to decoke them and lower the compression. Ex BATUS 2.5na diesels also tend to be retarded on the timing for some reason, at least at the elevations here in Alberta, I would advance the timing a little and see what happens. The weak cyclinder might light up with a bit more advance. Much easier than changing the pump if it works.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Pump is going for testing

[@jamescunliffe9872]

Faulty fuel shut off solenoid?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

possibly

[@andrewreynolds2647]

The no name injector was probably a stevens injector, this is why the engine is shaking, just a thought.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Oh Julie! It's a Rocking good way , but Shakey has just left this ole house by the green door! Lol!

[@randomoldbloke]

You are second guessing yourself, never a good thing you are not alone I used to do it all the time before I retired, I would bet dollars it is the pump everything else checked out . Cheers from Australia

[@squadmeta]

Liners

[@tfarris1]

Same pump as a 19j? If so, I have one I’ll make you a great deal on.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

the pump is similar but set up different - it is not a straight swap - some timing issues if I think right

[@deanc5000]

Timing?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

pump!

[@gvaly699]

You have 2 bad injectors : 3 and 4 . There is nothing (to much) wrong with the engine . Normal wear (low on compression) , low fuel flow from pump (acceptable wear) - you should have clean fuel filters , at least 4 decent functional injectors , same age and type and you should increase a bit low idle rpm, around 800 . Use injector cleaner additive for pump and injectors .

[@coyote5735]

Just a thought there isn't an internal filter in that pump by any chance. Last ditch protection.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I had the injectors tested if you didn't pick that up

[@gvaly699]

"Injectors tested" means you have a technical bulletin on which we can see opening pressures, closing pressures, leakage , etc. for each injector at different rotational velocities - if you don't have it I would assume they were tested on a high pressure hand pump (of course I could be wrong) . I suspect the opening pressures for 3 and 4 are slightly higher compared with 1 and 2 . Due to internal wear , injection pump cannot rise the pressure enough to open 3 and 4 properly at low rotational speed - you could overcome this trying to increase a bit low idle speed or to calibrate the injectors 3 and 4 (if it is possible) to open at the same pressure like 1 and 2 . A fuel pressure regulator valve stuck open ( or partially open) would give you similar symptoms , also a clogged or bad fuel transfer pump (electrically or mechanically actuated ) - I know nothing about your engine type , all I try is to show you some possibilities - I hope it will not upset you .

[@davidwoods80]

The owner on this one is going to owe you a bottle of Jameson in addition to payment.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Tanker!

[@ScR-jb7th]

Maybe someone ran it on veg oil...pump full of gunk?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Ex Mod out of Suffield Alberta CA - Never run for years - could be anything, but I doubt veg oil

[@evanjones2539]

Sorry it went poop 💩 shaped.. I don't think you are the first to play with that pump... There's definitely a big problem with the pump..

[@BritannicaRestorations]

It's going for testing if the owner wants to pay for that

[@brianjones1151]

The owner should just bite the Bullit and replace the whole engine with a 200tdi or 300tdi which ever is most available.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Easy to say if you are in the UK or Europe, but over in Canada used Tdi's are like chickens teeth to find!

[@tubthumper42]

possibly one of the worst diesel engines ever made? bar the old 2 and a quarter which it replaced which was truly crap only land rover would try and turn a petrol into a diesel ATB Andy.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I think you are wrongGeneral Motors turned the 6.2 V8 petrol into a diesel and it was total junkLand Rover turned a 2.25 diesel into a petrol an that is why it was so strong (for the era)

[@tubthumper42]

always thought it was the other way around my SERIES 2 had a 2 and quarter petrol in it when i bought it 30 odd years ago beaut engine but very thirsty .am pretty sure landrover pulled the dizzy fitted a pump beefed up the cylinder head and various other bits hey presto diesel power. Which came first petrol or diesel ?Think you,ll find the petrol was first.Diesel was a very rare and unpopular engine type back in the day especially for the military.ATB Andy.