2 Biggest Mistakes In Finding The OPTIMAL Bike Frame Size.

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[@tomcat6933]

Mistake number 3. The bike shop will try to sale you what is in stock and try to tell you their stock bike fits you best.

[@monocogenit1]

Tom Boyle if it's a bad shop...

[@maxfuchs3387]

Absolutely right. Bought a bike when I was about 16 years old. Could have bought a bigger frame with shorter stem etc, but the shop sold whatever was in stock.

[@mrgjr8758]

You are absolutely right, store will sell what in their stock and how far your budget can reach, LOL

[@SkyYukiGuy]

This is true. I felt like I bought bigger bike than needed.

[@abz124816]

... "there stock"... you mean their stock :)

[@madamfirefly1]

Thank you for the explanation. Finally someone could explain stack & reach for the dummies (me among them) and how important they are. And made me understand more about the sizes (49, 50, and goes on) mean from the manufacturers.

[@sandrodiclemente2305]

wow, U R right on the money, everyone i know talks about their frame size as 56 or 58, but they have NO idea about reach and stack. Now i know what to look for. thanks. many people get a short top tube, then get expensive handle bar or goose neck fittings to extend their reach or lower their stack, bcuz they bought the wrong bike frame ( head tube length ) size. i now feel prepared when i need to buy my next bike frame and get a fitting. thanks again for all your help in clarifying, bike frame size VS, reach and stack.

[@6whatisit6]

A clear explanation that i have been searching for a while. Thanks!!!

[@alessandrodagostino4490]

Thanks, one of the best explanation related to reach vs stack and changing of bicycle position.Ciao

[@raymartinezjr7235]

Out of the fitting video I've seen, this one by far makes the most sense. Thanks

[@TboneTenEighties]

Yes so I purchased my first road bike last year.. 56c road bike and I am just under 5'10". It is a race style frame with very short headtube and straight toptube. The angle on the HT and ST are really steep. I had to put 'Specialized' short reach compact bars with a 10mm carbon spacer to give a tad more height and a 90mm stem. I pushed the seat forward some and now can go up to 60miles in a run almost pain free (almost lol). My longest run so far is 70k. One day I want to get to the 100k mark in a single run just to do it. My season in nyc is starting as I type and i'm so pumped! Love riding Good video

[@bowsershark]

Yes, I agree Jester. It's spring time and beach summer attire returns😉

[@cornelbacauanu1544]

Very good point . A lot of bike shops do not pay attention to these parameters and sell the wrong size bike for the rider . These parameters should be asked when purchasing a bike . Thank you for the explanation.

[@Oscaredi100]

Thas was an excellent video. Easily explained the reach and the stack, which is quite important to select the correct frame. Thanks a lot! (Thumbs up)

[@benjaminhunt283]

Danni. This video has explained stack and reach in the most understandable way I have yet seen. Newbies should definitely think of this explanation when finding a new bike.

[@catfishcave379]

Where were you when I bought my bikes 10 years ago. Great video!

[@adamkubiak1933]

The best video on bike fitting on the planet. Thank you SickSzaj;-)

[@Criscross292]

Exactly! You are 100% right. Stack and reach is everything for fit. Fork trail, wheelbase length and chain stay length for how it will handle.

[@zaheedhasib]

This video requires my subscription, amazing work!

[@einestimme9039]

This was very easy to understand and helpful. Thank you.

[@philipprosenkranz9163]

Danke für das Video. Sehr verständlich erklärt.

[@pitupreciosura]

Clear and simple. Tks for sharing. Regards from Colombia

[@RyanWiggins1zoom]

Thanks man you just helped in more way that you know ...now I know what to look for

[@johns3106]

What you really need to do is: if you have a bike that you are fairly happy with, work on transfering the various fit measurements to your new ride, maybe with some slight tweaks to fix things you haven't been entirely happy with (for example, 2cm difference in stem length can make a BIG difference in comfort). If you don't have an existing bike as a starting point, the only way to really know which size to buy is to test ride lots of bikes in various sizes and see what is right for you. Sizing a bike really isn't science...a lot of it is just seeing what feels "right" to you, and will often take some trial and error before you are really happy with your fit.

[@secretagent86]

good basic information. thanks. it sure changed from when i raced in the early 70s

[@bdfloresa]

Greater than I expected small, compacted, easy to use

[@GuruVlk]

This is exactly was I was looking for :) Thanks

[@markrhuett]

Thank you for the video..very informative. I'm 5'5 and that height is right in the middle between small frame and medium frame.

[@asimmuhammad7170]

Beautifully presented! ♥

[@briseboy]

Thank you for an excellent introduction to most comfortable sizing! What bicycle makers originally intended in sizing bike top tube length was due to top tubes originally being horizontal The seat tube length was useful due to the limits of seatpost length. Those limits decrease [still] when frame angles decrease from vertical. For example, I enjoyed the 78 degree Colnago as opposed to the 76, etc. of other road bikes. Seat tube and stem angles were constructed with equal angles. Lower angles created greater absorption of road irregularities, so longer races (without today's magnificent padded shorts) were less taxing(!) at those lower angles. All this, as you imagine is now moot with top tubes not being horizontal. Yet, less flexy frames & components Always lead to less effort expended on bending the machinery, so every structure when lengthened is wasteful. Saddle adjustment allows for fitting, along with stem length. Remember, one seeks the optimum combination of least wind drag, responsiveness/steering/hip control, power transmission. Pros find this in wind tunnel energy testing. Each individual differs, even within themselves over time, in optimal vertebrae bend, shoulder & elbow angle. so saddle placement must reflect the variable range of this optimality. Road conditions have a part in all this, and if one is riding on rugged roads, the optimum also differs from smooth. Even wet/dry differs in a noticeable good placement - as well as the day's or week's fatigue. Yet every person can find and slowly adjust finely. I preferred deepbars the shallowest bars are best for short rides, races, track. Deep bars allow adjustment of elbow/etc. angles leading to less fatigue and narrow angles of muscle strength. The issue of optimality is really quite complex, and explaining it would require a book. You will change , and even the most accomplished pros MUST continue to explore postural changes to improve or maintain their success Bicycle racers have long been famed as the least flexible of athletes, and so the flexibility and resistance adjunct exercises you may have discovered in pro training regimes, is also applicable to YOU! Danny knows all this, but imagine how long his vids would be. You might either watch typical pro forearm position (breakaways and time trials. If you desire to seek top end speed, the leadout guys are worthy of observing as to body angles) or just attend to the relative fatigue you experience in your own body areas on long rides. Experience teaches, and if you ever get a pro technical coach, few words will be necessary - only adjustment and test, repeated.

[@derekperkins7343]

That was really clear. Well done.

[@mindlessgreen]

Finally! Thank you for this sensible explanation!

[@allaboutnyc212]

6"2 200lbs. My Bike is 61cm. LBS suggested 58-59 cm. I felt to big as if I was over the handle bar so I went with the big boy 61 cm. In my own experience I like the feeling of riding a horse. I feel stretched out never cramp. I always have the biggest bike in the area and I like that feeling as well. Never go by the guidelines go by what you like. The irony is you don't know yet what you like and don't like. I have no regrets about sizing up

[@328skidpad]

Great video thank you for making it simple without crazy number, maybe do another video with numbers and ideal ratios for "fitting"??

[@michaelmcfadden4397]

Valuable information, I returned a cx bike the 'same' size as my road bike after using a sizing chart based on the seat tube and it was far too big for me, evidently, stack was the issue and a shorter seat tube delivered the correct size, now i know why :)

[@h25b]

Stand over height matters too, somewhat related to stack but the varying geometries of the manufacturers makes getting the perfect fit tough.

[@soihavetoplay]

Very informative video, this helps a ton!!

[@TheQuikMix]

Thank you so much. This was VERY informative.

[@karelt5413]

Thx Dan waiting for your next video on this subject. 👍

[@brandokally1]

brilliant video my friend, really found it helpful

[@grahamfp4068]

I bought an old Raleigh Pioneer bike some years ago and it was fine for short rides, no problems. But since moving to the Mayenne department in France with wonderful rides, my wife and I have been going on longer and longer rides. Suddenly things got very uncomfortable as far as seating was concerned and also I was getting a stiff neck. At first I tilted the seat forward and bought a gel seat cover. No good. Then upon advice I tilted the seat back, too far at first but now just a little. Better. The I started raising the seat a little, a bit better and finally the handlebars, better still, no neck ache now. We manage au to 80km round trips, very hilly, but attractive terrain. So your video is very relevant in retrospect. But my bike I think is worn out, the crankcase bearing being problematic, despite changing the ball race. Now I'd like a second hand bike with better brakes! Just measured my bike, reach is 44cm stock is 50 cm I am a 5' 6" male. (1.68 m)

[@event4216]

Good take on this. Seat tube size alone is very overrated, yet so many people get talked by sellers into buying bike just because ST length seems matching. I spent about an hour jumping on and off new used bike and finally understood why it weren't feeling right and driving right. After this exercise and continuous adjustments, measurements and comparisons I got to the point when feel is like I'm fine with. Wish I had watched this before, but now I appreciate this even more as it complies with my hard earned findings. Anyone spending money on bike above big store two wheeled object, should know some basics of bike fit not to get fooled by combined numerology of tubes and winter price.

[@spaizemunkie4397]

I never knew this! Thanks a lot 😀 Oh, and your accent 😍 I could listen to you all day!

[@hamletcabrerart]

Excellent explanation!!

[@felinefriend6101]

excellent description stack n reach for bike. but no description of how to relate this to our own measurements (our inseam….our arm /torso length)

[@Finley0312]

Oh yes very Informative! You help alot. I have a trek fx3 for long-distance touring with 27gear selections but with your tips I bought a $249 aluminum windsor Wellington entry road bike with 14speed double chain ring 52/42T but I made a few minor mods like the rear cassette from 14-32T to 11-25 and lighter aerowheels at 25c and I keep up just fine with the higher end carbon fiber pricey bikes. It has at times offended a few that payed alot for there bike and wonder how I can hang. You totally improved my ability to ride without aching and early fatigue. Now that I have that well understood my decision on a more elegant bike will be easier now knowing what I'm looking for. Thank you so much! If you could explain how to calculate speed from gear selection I'd appreciate it. For example I am in 42x15 how does that equate to speed or miles per hour with wind resistance?

[@alainbongbijunior]

Great details and explanation

[@kccarlos1963]

I was educated on this video which also made me subscribe. Thank you.

[@sojhixsimelane210]

Now I understand reasons for my discomfort👍 great video!

[@sanamdeepsingh6993]

Two bikes with identical stack and reach can have different distance to handlebar based on front tube angle. Gets aggravated further by handlebar tilt and spacers used

[@del493]

Thank you for the instructive video

[@fmc6338]

Great way to explain. makes things clear to me.

[@simonmiles1972]

So useful. Thank you!

[@MangoJim90]

Great info! Thanks Danny!)

[@Shagadin]

Excellent video, thank you!

[@RobertPaulson87]

This video was very helpful. Thanks

[@Destin65]

Good video. I ran into a situation watch a bike review earlier where some of these measurements came into play that meant I wouldn't fit the bike. Reviewer showed how it was a 15" frame, seat tube at the max height limit was barely adequate for his 5'10" height to be able to pedal efficiently. Also he demonstrated the top tube lengthy by how the front wheel hit against his shoe when turning and how also his knee hit his thumb sometimes when pedaling which indicated a very short reach/stack that would make tall riders feel cramped and forced to sit upright like on a cruiser bike. I'm 6' myself, not enough seat height or reach for me to be able to fit the bike. Another example happened last month when I was trying out two different MTBs. Both had 17" frames. But both felt very different. With one, very short reach stack, the other a much more comfortable and noticeably longer reach. The bike with longer top tube, despite also being the same 17" bottom bracket to top of seat post measurement, just felt like a much bigger, more comfortable bike. And it's the one I kept and bought, lol.

[@Destin65]

Also, the one MTB I kept with the 17" frame, that stack height, if I understand correctly, is basically how high the top of the head tube is right?? That is probably what helped contribute towards my purchased 17" frame bike feeling so much bigger than the 17" frame bike I didn't buy.

[@Pasdechevredreamer]

Great explanation. Thanks

[@dlbonanno64]

Excellent explanation. Trying to figure out what is the best size for a gravel bike.

[@jeffrey2839]

This help me much for fitting myself again

[@danswim11]

I'm looking to buy a bike. This is one of the best videos I' have seen on You Tube.

[@user-uq4zn4hz8x]

Just perfect explanation!

[@donaldwalter1317]

I think you reversed your concept near the end where you showed stack going out horizontally and reach going vertically. But I got the concept and it helps, thanks.

[@muthukumare]

Very useful Info. Thank you

[@drpradipjoshi]

Very easy and perfect video thanks

[@MrBlack1272]

Man!!! I love your channel!

[@rolando12we]

very useful video. thanks for your time

[@Jane-bw5dx]

great video, thankyou so much

[@KBMAN]

Great video thanks

[@chrisobyrne5675]

Really helpful, thanks.

[@BjkxeDKjsje]

Best explanation on sizing and fit. Thank you very much.

[@feeraas]

Informative, thanks

[@nicoherrerai]

Amaaaaaazing and useful. Thaaanks

[@KsrGx.1]

Very useful video 👍

[@justjordan8018]

Hats down the only guy that explains is right. My Road Bike is cheap, but it thought me a lot. Once you fix your seat height you need to move it up front or funder back. That also helps regulate reach. The one thing right now for me is deciding on new Drop Bars sizer and new shifters/breaks , new stim? that entire "wheel" aria is a hard setup for your reach and comfort. I was wondering why my MTB size is 48 and my Road Bike size is 56 :) if they do take the top tube as size it makes sense. But my current Road bike has 56-57 top tube and 56 seat post tube so It's hard to tell since they are both the same size :)

[@briseboy]

It also regulates power, sprint speed and maintaining it. Reach fatigue is PART of that, but by no means primary. Punching out of the saddle is affected by reach, and that includes fore-aft weight distribution. Try an ill-sized too-short stem for example, or a too-slow long one (other people's bikes, of course. The exaggerated effect will instruct extremely well!)

[@hamzaelsaid5988]

5:58, i do know that you understand that the reach is horizontal and the stack is vertical but when you step off the bike you confuse them

[@luissantiagocorreia]

Nice video - Thanks! Only one note: At 5:58 you mention reach and stack with reversed movements.

[@fredlast4547]

what I've discovered with bike fit and comfort on a road bike is to go for a frame size that allows the stem to be closer in level with the handlebars, I find that relaxes the position and if you need to get 'aero' on the bike then move hands to the drops. of course that's just for me. you might like an aggressive position but it's very hard on the back over long distances. i'm also not a fan of the compact or semi-compact frame geometry. I've always found standard geometry works best.

[@bigring6424]

This is good advice. The down side is an aero position with high setback has a closed off hip angle making it difficult to generate power. If you care about being aero on the flats (not just descending), it's better to move the seat and handlebars forward, which is why TT bikes do that. Road bikes are made for peletons where aero on the flats doesn't matter much. But you don't have to set it up that way. Look at Adam Hanen's seat positions for example, but then he was often way out in front of the peleton, and managed to stay there.

[@jesudgarciajt8516]

Cool nice to no this, thank-you.

[@venkateshs4082]

Super explanation

[@carvixduran4025]

very comprehensive...thnx

[@chocolate_squiggle]

I've been watching lots of bike fit videos as I want to try a road bike coming from hybrid style. All the manufacturers put me in large size but I've been told, and seen videos to the effect that manufacturers are putting us on bikes far too large; one qualified bike fitter same height as me said he rides a 52 which is small. Additionally I've read another blokes account where he had 3x different bike fitting sessions and ended up being prescribed 3 different sizes. Manufacturers have done themselves no favours with their stupid advertising, for decades I completely avoided any thought of hopping on a bike again because all I saw of 'modern' bikes was a seat at least a foot higher than the bars and couldn't understand how anyone could be comfortable riding that. It's like they're advertising ferraris when most people just want to get some fitness & leisure riding done.

[@allthingsTechrelated]

2000 years later, bike geometry will still be argued.

[@brucewmclaughlin9072]

I wonder if we will be stuck with the diamond frame for the next fifty years? Glad I have moved on to a far more comfortable stick frame bike which gives me speed and comfort and aerodynamic efficiency.

[@abz124816]

Bike geometry does not take into account human determination as the most important measurement of a bike 😀

[@simonwarmer8777]

Should messure the toptube horizontal (level) c-c (head/seat) tubes, at least with Specialized roadbikes.

[@rollsandthepajakeroz5]

Thanks dan

[@DarkPa1adin]

this white frame of yours is beautiful!

[@bowsershark]

I shortened the reach and raised the stack on my 3 chain ring touring bike with a neck extension semi straight handlebar&bar ends. It rides great as a versatile upright ride. It has comfortable seat with spring suspension.

[@Jester123ish]

What few people mention is that an upright position as well as being comfortable is much better for looking around, ie sightseeing.

[@Geeios1]

This takes the weight off the pedals and puts it on your butt. Now instead of powering the pedals you are just poking at them with not weight. If cruising and seeings the sights while disregarding power and comfort is your cup of tea, that's fine. But as you found out there are always going to be trade offs.

[@bowsershark]

Yes, I am enjoying the trade off if sightseeing at the beach. I have more the a poke at the pedals for adequate power, back comfort and sitting comfort on a springy seat.

[@justjava22]

Unless the bike is wildly wrong , the most important measurement to keep in mind is the head tube length , particularly if the head tube is too short and needs significant spacers to make up for the inability of the rider to keep a position that is too low. Most other issues such as seat height and top tube length can be worked around by increasing / decreasing the seat height and same for head head stem length . Head tube height however is far more fixed due and is often hard to correct without significantly affecting the handling of the bike.

[@charlottecitizen5948]

Thanks that was really helpful. Do you have advice for best angles for legs/back while pedaling? For non-racers, if that's not obvious. I want to buy a bike for exercise and around-town errands but can't seem to balance the things you just explained with the proper leg extension when pedaling--in a more upright position than you... Is there a magic triangle formula to avoid back, knee pain and still have enough power while pedaling? Thank you.

[@Handletaken4]

A line through the steer tube should go near your ear. This bike fits you pretty well.

[@1-less-car]

Thanks. A different handlebar stem will change the Reach. Flat bar with bar ends and drop handlebars have different contact points. Needs to be considered.

[@ItsTheMojo]

How can the stem change the reach? It changes the distance to the bars, but not the distance to the top of the head tube. So having a different length stem can make a difference to the overall aggressiveness of the position, but the point made in the video is that the stack and reach are fixed values for a given frame geometry because the points they measure are fixed points that only change if the frame size or geometry changes. You're right that whether one is going to have drop bars or flat and how long the stem is need to be considered, but I suspect the stack and reach have a greater impact.

[@seymourtompkins]

Great question/comment. I think of the bike's reach and stack height as being minimum values. You can, in a sense, increase both values, but you cannot reduce them to lower than the bike's minimum values. Example: Let's say you buy a bike with a given reach. It comes with a long stem (120 mm) so that you feel stretched forward quite a bit. In that case, switching to a stubby (let's say one that's 35 mm long) will reduce your stretch by getting you closer over the headtube. In that case, your body is just approximating the bike's actual (technical) reach.

[@nickdudesville5154]

I'm looking to buy my first "real" bike, (not from the toy section of a department store) and this video makes more sense to me than the others and makes me rethink my size. I like an aggressive riding position so I'm going to go up a size or two from the manufacturer's recommended size.

[@Not_Sure_]

Please do more research. Before you go that route. Get loaner bikes from friends and bike shops, and go for a long ride 1 hour 2 hours.

[@mcorbett01]

I think AB is right. Going up sizes could leave you struggling with reach which will be uncomfortable on longer distances. Check out more videos on bike sizing first and try out different sizes before buying if you can.

[@shredfreak83]

scott cx size 56, only changes where reducing stack height. Main issue i'm having atm is finding quality parts for a 26er enduro hardtail. Especially the selection of frames seems to be severly lacking sadly enough.

[@johnmcconalogue6498]

very imformative cheers

[@pisangkontot7358]

Tq bro for sharing👍👍👍

[@carlosj.rodriguezr.2303]

Hi Danny, great video, quite informative. If the frame looks a little big, it can be compensated, for example, with a shorter stem or by lowering the handlebar or the seat? which other ways are if you already have such frame?

[@JitinMisra]

So the way I understand it, the bike stack and reach is more relevant when considering how aerodynamic you want to be, but it does not tell you if it is right size for you. Seems that is the height of the top tube from the ground

[@Lynkevmusic]

thanks man

[@jevgeniardassov]

I also look at the overstand height. It is uncomfortably to stand and wait if the frame is pressing hard on your scrutom... But yes, sizing of the bikes sucks and should change. Especially if you are looking at different manufacturers at one point, then good luck.

[@seymourtompkins]

@SickBiker so what a given rider needs to know is, 'What are the minimum and maximum values for stack and reach for me ?' (given that riders can always adjust saddles/stems up to a certain limit). right ? how would we determine that ?

[@ahmedalbargi4271]

Thank you

[@fratoz8844]

thank you very helpful :))

[@obidavekenobe]

I have heard about stack and reach, but can you do a video about how one can workout their own stack and reach?

[@bigring6424]

This isn't possible. The two things you can work out are your seat "height" (straight-line distance from BB to top center of seat, not vertical distance) and your saddle nose to handlebar distance. This are pretty rigid. the .89 times inseam formula is pretty good for the first. The second one really is best done by fitting and getting your arms at 90 degrees to your torso with elbows unlocked, hands on hoods. You can do that on any bike so long as there is enough adjustment. However nobody can tell you how far foward to ride or how low to lean. These depend on your riding style, distances, terrain, if you ride solo(a power aero position is more useful then..) or in groups, your physique, and personal preference. A good guess for fore/aft if you don't know is to just have the saddle centered on the rails on the stock seatpost (probably about a 2cm setback), get the height right, and then measure from saddle nose to handelbars to check the reach. That's a little hard to read off from a spec sheet, but it's possible if you're very good at geometry. If you don't know about downward lean, go for something high. Look for a relatively high stack to reach ratio. Better comfortable and not aero than aero and can't ride for over half an hour.

[@ender4903]

Great explanation. Also I didn't know road bike frame sizes were measured from top tube. I was thinking they were measured from seat tube.

[@al-du6lb]

I know I've read that too, but I think that was before compact frames were introduced.

[@PRH123]

Yes in the past when top tubes were always level, it was from the center of the BB to the top of the top tube.