2 Stroke Engine Race Oils

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

With my latest test results all the pieces of the puzzle have fallen together in my head. Oil ratios do affect power, but not equally in all engines. I'm going to make a video on my latest findings which will give everyone insight they need for oil selection based on their type of engine, far more than just matching the flash point to the NGK #.

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

Since I get zero funding I can't fully investigate the topic of oils affect on combustion rate, so I can give general guidance only. If you think your oil is slow burn (synthetic) and you want to try fast burn (castor, 0% synthetic, group 1, a little group 2 allowed) then just make the switch and try different ignition timings, testing for acceleration once you have a stopwatch and speedometer or tachometer on your bike to make sure you cross the first pole at the same speed. I don't recommend beginning from a complete stop because clutch action will vary a lot each time you try. My page on oils break them down telling what types of oil is in each product and the percentages: dragonfly75.com/moto/oil.html

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

me to ChatGPT: "can viscosity modifier additive in 2 stroke engine oil reduce lubricity?" ChatGPT said: "Yes, a viscosity modifier additive in two-stroke engine oil can potentially reduce lubricity under certain conditions. Here's how: 1. Effect of Viscosity Modifiers on Oil Behavior Viscosity modifiers are polymers added to oil to help it maintain a stable viscosity across a wide range of temperatures. At low temperatures, they allow the oil to remain fluid enough for good cold start performance, and at high temperatures, they prevent the oil from thinning out too much. While these modifiers improve the oil's ability to handle temperature extremes, they don't directly enhance the oil's lubricity (its ability to reduce friction). In some cases, viscosity modifiers can dilute or disrupt the oil's natural lubricating properties, especially if too much is added. 2. Polymer Shear and Film Strength Shear thinning: Under high-stress conditions, like in a two-stroke engine at high RPM, the viscosity modifiers can shear, meaning the long polymer chains that provide viscosity control break down. This can lead to a temporary drop in viscosity, which reduces the oil's film strength, potentially reducing lubricity. Film formation: The oil's ability to form a stable film between moving parts is key to its lubricity. If viscosity modifiers alter this film, either by thickening or thinning it too much, the lubricating effect can be reduced. This could increase wear or friction in the engine. 3. Balance Between Viscosity and Lubricity Viscosity and lubricity are related but not the same. High viscosity doesn't always mean high lubricity, and vice versa. An oil that is too thick (due to viscosity modifiers) might not flow as easily through small engine passages, reducing its ability to lubricate all parts effectively. Some additives meant to control viscosity might interfere with other lubricating additives like friction modifiers or anti-wear agents, further reducing overall lubricity. In conclusion, while viscosity modifiers are crucial for maintaining consistent oil performance across temperatures, excessive or inappropriate use can affect the oil's ability to lubricate well. It's a balance. Too many viscosity modifiers can thin out the oil's lubricating film or reduce its ability to flow efficiently, leading to reduced lubricity in a two-stroke engine.

[@iKenFlyPPG]

I threw up my arms with all these brands and options, so I picked Klotz synthetic only because it smells good. 60 hrs later cylinder looks great. Paramotor duty cycle, 8500 rpm climbing out for a minute, 7000 sustained climb, 5500-6000 cruise.

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

a paramotor is not a high stress engine and could probably survive on any 2 stroke oil. This video is more about selecting the best oil for a race engine.

[@Ellwoodsss1]

@ikenflyppg Klotz KL-302 in a Factory R 50:1 for 70 hours with 100LL and decalin required a “C” piston to get all the clearances back in tolerance. Smells great and burns clean but doesn’t lubricate for shit

[@iKenFlyPPG]

​​@@Ellwoodsss1Yes that is what I'm running now, and for cold weather I have some klotz snowmobile syn. Thanks for the feedback with your experience. In my case, I run 93 at about 45:1, I checked skirt clearance with a mic and dial bore gauge and it was perfect, size A drop in.

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

@@iKenFlyPPG Klotz KL-302 is a TC-W3 oil made for low RPM water cooled engines, not recommended for anything else. TC-W3 rating is an industry certification, administered by the National Marine Manufacturers Association. The TC-W3 oils were specifically targeted toward piston-ring cleanliness. Many current two-stroke outboard oils are built on a mid-viscosity base oil that would be considered around 20-weight. The base oil makes up approximately 60 percent of the final product. Then a heavier base oil called brightstock (slightly less viscosity than group 2 oil) is added, normally at about five percent of the total, but sometimes as much as 17 percent. Brightstock is a great lubricity agent and helps make the oil more slippery. Up to 20 percent of the final blend is solvent, which acts as a carrier and helps the oil mix thoroughly with gasoline (remember that there are still a lot of pre-mix engines in circulation). About one percent or less is dye, so you can tell if the pre-mix gas has oil in it. The remainder is made up of additives, which may or may not contain polyisobutylene, commonly known as PIB. PIB is a synthetic oil used for both lubrication and smoke control. PIB burns very cleanly, but if you use too much it turns into gummy residue deposits in the combustion chambers. Actually, it can be really gummy, similar in consistency to glue that has almost dried.

[@iKenFlyPPG]

@@MichaelForrestChnl What in the world, Klotz is presenting it as a dirt bike oil. I trust you more than Klotz to be clear, wondering could it be the oil formula here passes the TCW3 certification so they slapped the label on the front?

[@mikeeiben3430]

Thanks for your efforts. Do you have a positive opinion about Klotz R50 based on its ability to protect the engine from wear and corrosion?

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

it has a surprisingly low viscosity index for an oil supposedly all synthetic, which means it isn't. There are better oils, but what you look for depends on your type of engine.

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

I don't know why people shy away from castor oil. Yes it leaves deposits , but very little if the jetting is right. If it leaves a lot of deposits then the jetting is too lean and the engine is getting too hot and burning a lot of the castor onto the metal. Advantages: 1) it's a fast burn oil which is what most race bikes need, 2) it is the most stable oil which is least affected by ignition timing, 3) it protects better than synthetic. Oil tests by Husqvarna proved that, 4) it smells great, 5) it's derived from castor beans and so doesn't contribute to the problem of our rapidly depleting supply of petroleum

[@xXRedEyedStrangerXx]

For a 250cc Mx bike, I have ran both klotz r50 and super techniplate, i saw you think the super techniplate has too much VII, where do you find this data? I would like to compare the klotz oils some more. Only reason I don’t use benol is due to my use winter racing in New England and don’t want to deal with separation or changing oils. Would you choose r50 or super techniplate purely based on protection? I like the idea that the super techniplate has 20% castor in there for any worst case scenarios. I know the VII play a big role in shared sumps, but for 2 strokes wouldn’t it not matter much as the oil has almost no time to be “sheared down” before it’s burned and leaves the system? Great video thank you

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

you're probably using a #8 plug and so for you the oil doesn't have to be as top notch as what I talk about in this video. "The buck stops here" as far as data goes. No one else has done the research I have, at least no one who's put their findings on the internet. I estimate the amount of viscosity modifier by analyzing the types of oil and their percentages in each product and then compare what viscosity I think it should have to what viscosity is listed for it. You should get my cheap oil ratio calculator whichs shows oils VM rating by me. It will also calculate a moderate ratio to use. dragonfly75.com/moto/oil2.html

[@legenderekonwheels]

Appreciate you sharing your knowledge & research findings! Where does maxima formula k2 fall ?

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

It's 70% synthetic which makes it a slow-burn oil.

[@rickriede2166]

@ Michael Forrest.When you did your fuel/oil ratio viscosity test's ,don't you think that measuring the flow under a vacuum or rather lower than ambient air pressure like the carb throat on running engine would have yielded similar results as Jennings?

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

I'm confident that having a minimal column of fuel/oil above the jet is close enough to the pressure difference the jet encounters inside the carb. Of course you are free to do your own tests and let us know the results.

[@eliinthewolverinestate6729]

I use Evin-Johnson in my boat engines. Using cheap quaker state in motorcycles, chainsaw, and water pump. Only had a cheap wemears 66cc chain saw fail 25:1. But was running it very hard milling on a large leaning dry white pine. Looked like someone took a fill to the piston by the exhaust port.

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

Using "engine fail" as your only criteria isn't very wise

[@andrewbacon2318]

Having done 1/4 mile sprinting to I know how easy it is to fluff a run. Your acceleration/ time test is always subject to human error, would it not be better to test acceleration on a dyno where you can control more of the variables ?

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

Ecuador has no dynos, and I keep the times that are close to each other and then average them together. It's a good non-dyno method.

[@bultacowally]

Pretty sure with NGK spark plugs the heat goes down as the number goes up! So an NGK B8ES is HOTTER than a B10ES...

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

the higher # plugs have less ceramic exposed to the combustion heat/pressure and so it can be in the correct range of temperature although it is in a hot running engine.

[@alexanderscholz8855]

What Oil is good for the City, no or little Smoke? Not Race! I have a Piaggio Sfera 50ccm, 1994 and it is Stock.

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

for a small donation I'd be glad to go over this with you, or you can buy my fuel/oil ratio calculator which recommends oils based on most of my criteria: dragonfly75.com/moto/buy7calc.html

[@matthewnorris203]

Thoughts on TC-W3 for a 70-85cc 2 stroke high RPM street engines?

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

why are you thinking of using a boat oil? Boat engines don't need as much protection as motorcycle engines.

[@matthewnorris203]

@@MichaelForrestChnl Good question, I had the same question. Klotz said TC-W3 is the way to go for small cc engines. What do you think?

[@MichaelForrestChnl]

@@matthewnorris203 "high RPM" is high heat and need more protection. Some reps just have that position because they are a friend or family member and really don't know shit. The reps at Maxima and Motul are pretty knowledgeable.