2-Wire vs. 4-Wire Resistance Measurement (Kelvin) + Wave Winners!

[@ElectroBOOM]

I have done 4 wire measurements before, just that I was measuring a DC motor's coil resistance of around 10mOHM, or PCB power line resistance. So I had to run like 10A or 50A through the resistance and measure the voltage across it with a DMM! I suppose a high precision 4-wire DMM would be less catastrophic??

[@shivam000]

Hello sir fan from india😄😄

[@KeysightLabs]

Yeah, the 4-wire option is probably the way to go 😅

[@wayneparris3439]

Hope it was on camera! I have long been a sub and enjoy your arcs and sparks :P

[@faidularcs]

@@wayneparris3439 😂

[@peerappel2012]

@@StigDesign LOL

[@KeysightLabs]

Welcome to day 2! How do you use 4-Wire measurements? Sign up now for the sweepstakes and get access to the resource libraries: bit.ly/YTWave2020

[@Factory400]

This event is always exciting! Still enjoying the fruits of my previous big WIN of the MSOX6000 6Ghz scope - It is in daily use (at full bandwidth) and I have since filled out the bench with another DSOX1204G for the higher risk DUTs. Next up - 7.5 digit DMM and the USB based VNA! Moving up in the world.

[@anbu7406]

How to win dso. I registered. Wat i need to do further

[@ihsanwiguna1783]

since i just using my basic measuring tool, i just use 2-wire measurement so far unfortunately. you guys not only giving great products, but also useful knowledge of course

[@DrFrank-xj9bc]

I'm doing 4W resistance measurements since 1989 already, when I purchased my 1st hp3458A @ university. Offset Compensation was the other feature which came with this instrument, to further reduce e.m.f. errors. Great, that the 34465A/470A also feature both methods.

[@xx-mz2eg]

I could die for that Keysight ruler

[@jimpyu]

These precise equipments are gold in this industry.

[@damiankosiorek5205]

Well i switched to 4 wires measurments during my classess called "Semiconductor devices" led by my great proffessor Sylwester Nowocien. He teached us about small resistances and why they matter so much. That led us to the question on how accurately meassure the small resistances? Well he was like "Now look what we've gotten from our great Campus dotations" and there were those beautiful Truevolt Series 6.5 Digit Multimeters. After lectures with our precious proffessor our entire year switched immediatelly to the Truevolt series provided by the Keysight. Thank you very much Keysight! Hopefully i could get one to avoid long travles to campus to measure the stuff :D. Too expensive to buy from my student's fee :

[@msmyrk]

Awesome description on the 4-wire stuff. I've always had troubles getting my head around 4-pin current sense resistors, and your description of DMMs is the first that's really let me get my head around it.

[@KeysightLabs]

Glad it was helpful!

[@wayneparris3439]

A little off topic, I love the FROGGER screen saver! ON topic, thanks for clearing up this topic. What is the effect of the resistance of the sense leads in a 4 wire measurement?

[@SteveJones172pilot]

Ahh.. screensaver?! Is that it? I thought it was MAME running on something, but the way the palette keeps changing, you're probably right...

[@QuantumFluxable]

The sense lead resistance is only important when your measured voltage is very very tiny, like when measuring the resistance of a short, thick piece of copper.

[@yunusYT7]

Every day we learn new things, just came to know about this. Thanks for great info!

[@vittal933]

Studying Electrical Eng... Hope to win any giveaway so I can use them for my project..

[@nanoLuka]

Good luck!

[@nanoLuka]

Me too, good luck!

[@RaoulB.]

Well, I've always wanted an oscilloscope since I've been interested in electronics. Right now i'm trying to repair a motherboard and attending many other projects, getting one of these instruments would be amazing for me. Let's hope for the best and congratulations to whoever wins!

[@jamesharrison2041]

hi'''i am a retired JPL/NASA scientist ,Pasadena'''''ive used 2 wire my whole life'''''im going to start using the 4 wire test''''of course it wont help with capacitance''''which is my main measurement type'''''thank you'''''''James.... Manhattan project..1944, los Alamos

[@markys441]

I haven't switched to 4 wire measurement yet, but after this video, I will! :D

[@laad]

8 more days to go. I'm still hoping!!! :)

[@nanoLuka]

with you :)

[@typ044]

That smooth jazz during the soldering, lmao!

[@KeysightLabs]

We're always gettin radd & fuggin bustn

[@typ044]

@@KeysightLabs haha, touche !

[@nicktumi]

4 wire is the best way to measure accurately. Especially for sensors! It's easy to put together different modules from Keysight via GPIB and automate everything.

[@RoboGenesHimanshuVerma]

Thanks!! I had been trying to understand this for a while.

[@royelectrotechnic8711]

Wow! congrats to the winner 👏

[@MindFlareRetro]

Hey, Daniel, I have to ask -- what's up with the *retro* electronics corner? 👍from me. Anyway, congrats to the winners. Fingers crossed for day 3.

[@KeysightLabs]

It's been fun to branch out into that a little bit! Picked some of it up for an Ixia/IT project I worked on and just couldn't bring myself to sell it!

[@MindFlareRetro]

@@KeysightLabs Ah yes, I know that feeling.

[@scruff_01]

Oh I really like that E36103A power supply. Clean looks

[@RobeenaShepherd]

Is that an Atari 800XL in the background? 😍 Congratulations winners!

[@KeysightLabs]

Yep! It's been fun to play around with

[@markgreco1962]

Congratulations winners!!!!!!!

[@Afug-Info]

Beautiful ruler !! But most important: Congratulations to the winners !!!! Best regards from German Electronics Channel Afug-Info

[@foxabilo]

I am designing a low cost lithium chemistry cell internal resistance classifier and 4 wire is essential.

[@osgeld]

about the only time I use 4 wires is when measuring across a shunt and grats to all the winners!

[@alfaromeo272]

Nothing against 4 wire measurements but.... "Use the flux, Luke!" =)

[@joeg7849]

Useful information. Thanks and keep this useful series going.

[@kevincozens6837]

Another option available with some meters for resistance is to use the relative measurement setting. You short the leads together and set that as your zero point then take your resistance measurement.

[@raymitchell9736]

All of my stuff is 2 wire measurement. BTW: Love the ElectroBoom clip, just wouldn't let him near my test bench... have you seen his channel!? LOL -- Just kidding, good stuff :-)

[@Andrei424M]

Well, I am attempting to measure ESR on Electrolytic capacitors in one faculty project. Also with constant current is easy to determine the capacitance...

[@KeysightLabs]

Yep! We actually did a video on measuring the time constant with an oscilloscope here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pV7alpp8qqZmiKM

[@marwansayed6345]

Very informative, thank you

[@tullgutten]

Love the electroBoom clip 😅 Surprised he haven't managed to blow up a scope yet, must be pretty tough 👍 Would love to win some day, to upgrade my 30 usd jytec dso Ebay oscilloscope. Always fascinate by all the cool and usefull stuff we can do with it

[@GearAcquisitionSyndrome]

I don't deal with 4 wire measurements usually, because I don't work with really low resistance values. But I did use to work with a Keysight 3104 oscilloscope before switching work. Now I've had to buy my own scope, which is an entry level rigol. Talk about downgrading, am I right?

[@KeysightLabs]

F

[@stevechatza]

Is there some kind of promotion for students

[@supernova86]

If you don't have a 4w measurement device, short the leads together and null that measurement out. This puts your plane of reference for your measurement at the END of the probes, and not at the front of your DMM

[@russellslater4037]

I'm trying to self teach electronics, so apologies if I'm way off with this comment. But isn't this 4 wire just the same as 'nulling' your test leads. I only have a handheld DMM, so for low resistance meaurements I short the leads, press the Rel button to give me a 0 Ohm reading and then take my measurements. Or have I missed the point?

[@ABaumstumpf]

That was the correct way of going crazy with measurments. And Rossman would like to have a talk with you about your ball... those solder joints look a biiiit suspicious.

[@KeysightLabs]

Yeah, not my finest soldering...

[@bart416]

It's always fun if nearly all your predecessors used 3.5 digit handheld DMMs to track the resistance change of PCB tracks during mechanical testing, this led to hundreds of pages with "interesting" results and obscure effects which they then tried to model. So six years later you come a long with a 7.5 digit bench DMM and do a proper 4-wire measurement and suddenly notice that the effects they spent the last six years trying to model don't actually exist, because they were measuring temperature differences and contact resistance. The funny bit was that the mechanical deformation from the testing made it far more difficult to place probes, so the contact resistance always increased in these experiments. But it does lead me to a rather interesting question, has anyone ever managed to get a better than 0.1 mOhm resolution on a flex PCB resistance measurement? I highly suspect the moisture content of the PCB was ruining the measurements, because just to get it down to 0.1 mOhm already required baking the boards overnight and taking the boards and DMM into a cleanroom. Now that I come to think of it, the pliability of the adhesive used to attach the copper probably didn't help either I suppose. Bit sad I was never able to get it down to the noise floor of the DMM.

[@alfredneumann4692]

With this method i fixed DMMs in the late 80s. Had to dig a little bit in my memory :-)

[@Spectre.007]

I just hope I win some keysight oscilloscope.

[@andrerieck3801]

hi ! am i the only one having problems registering ? the lanfing page says 'register to unlock content' (hiding the button to enter the daily draw). when i register nothing really happens and i never receive a confirmation email even though i selected that checkbox. i tried different browsers on Windows an MacOS and also checked my spam folder ... no result :-( ... that makes me a bit sad as i really would like to take part in this great event.

[@KeysightLabs]

Sorry to hear you're having trouble! I see that your entry is confirmed in our system, which means you have confirmed from an email. I've also resent your confirmation email to see if you can see it again. However, your entry is definitely eligible and in the draw.

[@andrerieck3801]

@@KeysightLabs yes, i now received the confirmation 🙂 thank's a lot for checking my registration 👍

[@amirb715]

another instance is LCR measurements. Almost all good LCR meters only work with 4 wire or Kelvin type leads

[@rimmersbryggeri]

What about when using RTD like a PT100 is that a good place for a 4 wire measurement?

[@richardgoebel226]

I am curious about the DMM you used. Does it have a REF button or something like it so that when you clip the test leads together you can zero them out? Then do the measurement of the resistor.

[@LearnElectronicsCanada]

What's the significance of the 'Frogger' running on the monitor in the back?

[@KeysightLabs]

Sometimes you're the frog, sometimes you're the car...

[@williammckinley541]

Would like to be able to have any piece of your equipment to help me learn more on understanding and fixing electronics .

[@peerappel2012]

Can you someday show how to do power/current measurements on a pulse width controlled load like a motor? That seems quiet complicated to me and I would love to know more about that! :-)

[@QuantumFluxable]

measure voltage above a shunt to determine current over time, then find a way to integrate that voltage over time. An OpAmp integrator would work well if you're intending to build it into a product, or just use the Math functions of your oscilloscope.

[@Atetus94]

You could Add timer on landing page when can I do another roll - due to different time zones

[@KeysightLabs]

-7 UTC, but that's a good idea!

[@delvontaylor7]

I would like u to explain 1 over r1 +.1over re+.1over r3

[@spacexfan5199]

Maybe someday I will become the owner of a Keysight Technologies oscilloscope or multimeter.

[@pepeshopping]

Just exactly how modern battery chargers do. Can you go deeper to make it worth it?

[@johnharris6589]

wow i hadnt heard of this before

[@eelooplanitia6640]

OOOH WHERE CAN I GET THAT RULER 0:48

[@guyh3403]

Congrats to the winners! **drool**

[@alienpioneer]

Please consider giving away rulers like the one you are using :).

[@dehCremus]

Just started with RF and EMC measurements. Would love to win something!

[@Me11oIngenuity]

Nice work! You folks are single-handedly rekindling engineering interest to the masses.

[@RainBoxRed]

GIVE ME DA MEETA. Oh wait, wrong electronics channel.

[@Atetus94]

You could also cover 3 wire measurements

[@KeysightLabs]

Whoa lets not get out of hand

[@caabou185]

hi everybody, how one may participate in equipment drawings?

[@elhub4100]

Can you suggest a short locater (tono metre)

[@skoda110]

Interesting indeed

[@tomclanys]

2 polish winners it seems, yet it still wasn't me :C Oscilloscopes are so ultra expensive in Poland, it's equal to a typical monthly payout. I could always get a soviet one for cheap, but they mostly don't work and aren't that useful in electronics of our age

[@KeysightLabs]

Poland showed up strong today, that's for sure!

[@bipolarchemist]

I've used 4 wire systems for measuring the conductivity of thin films on glass, and the contraption I used didn't look as nice as the unit you showed nor was it as user friendly.

[@shivam000]

hope I will get that oscilloscope..

[@garthhowe297]

I know, you need oxygen free test leads! LOL What's with Frogger in the background? Is that how you spend your time at Keysight?

[@KeysightLabs]

I can neither confirm nor deny that I play Frogger at work.

[@SteveJones172pilot]

Plus 1 for electroboom cameo

[@cabeza2578]

Miliohms measurements

[@postulusml]

As a hobbiest, why can I not enter?

[@KeysightLabs]

You can, just put "self" or "none" in those fields

[@anbu7406]

I want power supply n dso. With these two we can do ny thing

[@jasonwitt8619]

I have electronics but no power supplier or tester, would love to win a lab set up.

[@marios5000]

I measured a (1ohm+-5%) heated resistor, I heat it up to 100 degrees (Celsius) in 100 are 0,9662Ω in 60: 0,9675Ω in 30: 0,9698Ω and in 22: 0,1710Ω my multimeter it cant measure so low values!!

[@XFurY_Osu]

Jestem zwykłym człowiekiem. Widzę polak wygrał, daję like c: Congratz m8ts ^-^

[@jonaszkita8472]

What hapend ? How could I miss it ? My notifications broke!😕

[@davethompson2881]

Nothing I do ever gets anywhere near requiring this level of test gear. Hard to rationalise the outlay.

[@jurgenmartinez6281]

Espero poder ganar la próxima :)

[@jmannUSMC]

I won.....a wealth of knowledge.

[@KeysightLabs]

And doesn't it feel good!?

[@Sir_Pumpington_Of_Dumpenshire]

can i has oscope?

[@KeysightLabs]

Sir Pumpington of Dumpenshire can has oscope

[@sivanathan6891]

Great

[@tecknologg2289]

Why not just use thicker wire ?

[@me3dnone107]

I prefer the 5 wire measurement system. It's superior.

[@plemli]

That's nothing, I'm turning the wires up to 11.

[@KeysightLabs]

@plemli please, we're over 9000 over here

[@1906Farnsworth]

How is 4 wire better than just having the meter subtract the resistance of the leads? I though all modern meters could do this.

[@KeysightLabs]

You can often zero out the lead resistance, but if your load does funky things your measurements can lose accuracy.

[@1906Farnsworth]

@@KeysightLabsI see that, but I was thinking only of static out-of circuit measurements.

[@BLACKArracknet]

I am hoping to win one of these oscilloscopes so that I can progress in my project for long distance wireless power transmission. BTW I am only 14 yrs old so please beg me an oscilloscope.

[@tablatronix]

ooh that is one sexy power supply

[@eversonburg1]

I´ll win...

[@MJ-vt1kp]

Hi Daniel can we have a contest over this sexy PCB ruler that can be seen at 1:15 min? :-)

[@KeysightLabs]

I may have to figure out a ruler giveaway :)

[@MJ-vt1kp]

@@KeysightLabs Great, I can't wait.

[@urugulu1656]

really for that demonstration you go with a surface mount resistor? what kind of sickness is happened to you. every normal person would just go with standard axial leaded resistors

[@KeysightLabs]

Haha, that was the only resistor in the 0-3 ohm range that I had on hand! I'm rarely described as a "normal person" 😅

[@urugulu1656]

@@KeysightLabs i could edit that to sane person but that wouldnt make any difference i guess

[@excitedbox5705]

I have never made a 4 wire measurement because I don`t have the test gear to do it. hint hint ;)

[@wowzers0_070]

Oh shit, it's a Bogdanoff. I'm going to need the QRD.

[@octapc]

4 wire measurement is not for a hobbyist or repair shop.

[@Robertas_Grigas]

Bruh

[@SweatyHatMan]

5:24 to skip to the list of winners on screen

[@Skaytacium]

This is getting sadder by the day

[@KeysightLabs]

If by sadder, you mean lit, then yes.

[@LOV3YOUR33N3MY]

@@KeysightLabs I agree, this 4 wire measuring is lit fam 😅