2005 Pontiac GTO (Reaction) Motorweek Retro

Welcome back! This week's reaction video is the 2005 Pontiac GTO.
Magazines and fans begged for this car to come from Australia to the US, and Bob Lutz made it happen.... only for it to come in more expensive, generically styled, and a sales dud.
But for those who owned them, they loved them.
For me, love the idea of the car, but can't get over the styling.
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[@MyHumanWreckage]

Once again Jon, you nailed it. Bland styling aside, I’d do almost anything to get my hands on this car even today. Great review.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Appreciate it my friend. :)

[@JCVACCARO]

I remember reading an article with a GM person saying that mostly all of the GTO budget went into relocating the fuel tank and a few other safety regulations and not much was left for styling.

[@joelbosso1331]

Yep and that gas tank relocation ate up all the trunk space

[@jeffstellish1990]

The GTO came out with great hype. I remember those days as I was waiting for the new Chrysler LX platform to bring us a 2 door (the Chrysler 300C and Dodge Magnum had recently debuted, but the Challenger was still a couple of years away). The 04 GTO was even more bland, with the flat hood. Reviewers at the time (and, in droves) kept commenting about the hood ("where are the scoops?" and "GTOs always had hood scoops"). So, the 05 reacted by adding the hood scoops to make it a "real GTO". Of course, there was critizism from many sides about being Holden based, Austrailian built, and decidedly "Grand Am" styling. That said, my GM loving friends all poked fun at me about the GTO coming out as a 2 door when the new 06 Dodge Charger debuted as a 4 door. Of course, Pontiac soon replaced the GTO with the G8 (4 door) but too late to save Pontiac. Now, in 2024, they are finnally ending the run of the 4 door Charger only to replace it with new 2 dr and 4 dr Chargers in all electric or Hurricane 6 power.

[@mrgurulittle7000]

I like it because it’s very different. It’s also very Japanese looking- almost like a Mitsubishi GTO or Eagle Talon from some angles like the side. Pontiac missed out on the retro muscle car comeback of the 2010s. I wonder what this GTO would’ve looked like in the 2010s with the new retro styled Camaro.🤔 Great review, Jon. It’s nice to hear the narrative of this car when it was out during that time.

[@johnnymason2460]

I have been wanting you to react to this review. This GTO was unfairly criticized. I have sat in this GTO before. It was nice and comfortable. It sat low but not too low. It deserved better than what it got.

[@stevenswan3642]

From what I remember they added the hood scoops because dealers that did it as an accessory said they sold much better than without the scoops

[@orlandopoolebear]

I love my GTO!! So many compliments and people don’t know what it is. It’s a sleeper.😁

[@Skittleman2341]

I agree with what you said about this generation GTO. Styling was very subdue and it didn't have the excitement Pontiac was known for. If I remember correctly, there is a company in Tallahassee, Florida called Trans Am Worldwide that made a model off of the fifth generation Chevy Camaro and called it the 6T9, since GM has the rights to all GTO, Firebird, and Pontiac names. The 6T9 is one interesting looking model and something that GM could have made the GTO stand out in the crowd. Thanks again, Jon, for your thoughts.

[@thomasw3285]

Rare Classic Cars & Automotive History has an interview with Bob Lutz who lamented how mismanaged Pontiac was in the 00s, they had the opportunity to actually have affordable performance. But ultimately, even if Pontiac survived, it would have just become another SUV company...

[@voodoodiecast]

The Mustang was like 5grand cheaper than this GTO back then. But man the interior is so sophisticated, ride is good and the power.

[@jeffreybrooks8643]

The car should more properly be called "Australian Muscle" due to the car's being a Holden knock-off. It may not have great bodywork styling, but drive it and you'll love it. Jon, if practical it may be entertaining to do a follow-up video with the 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP. Cheers!

[@spilledepsomsalt4419]

I love it, I have owned and still own one. I like the fact that it's a bit of a sleeper, and it doesn't get noticed, except when it turns over, these things are loud when the first turn on like most muscle cars. The interior fits bogger frammed people very well, but that headliner will sag. The rubber bushings holding the suspension together have not held up over the past 20 years, and it has that GM plastic rattle. But it's fun putting your foot down, and hearing that v8 reminds you that you can have a crap ton of fun.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks so much for the real-world feedback! Glad you still love your 'sleeper'! :)

[@ianperkins8812]

Has it really been that long?! As I have no doubt mentioned in the past, I have a friend that had one, but I don't recall which year. It was a modern (for that time) take on a bygone era. Fun to drive in town, but droned on the highway. Styling-wise, it was archetypal GM with a Pontiac spin, which is neither bad nor good. Having said all of that, I still miss Pontiac. I do still see them on the road,every once in a while, mostly G6s, with the occasional 8. My mother's side of the family was mostly Pontiac & Buick in the 70s and 80s.

[@2006gtobob]

Pretty obviously, I am a BIG fan. I LOVE its slick but bland styling because it blends in and disappears. Its performance is outstanding and way better than the Mustang. Its interior is far superior. The drivetrain is superior to the Mustangs in every way, from power to reliability. I've never gotten a ticket while in it. I will never sell it. My 6 speed example has only 33,000 miles on it. The moment I knew Bob Lutz arranged for this car to come here, I had to have one. I was fortunate enough to buy one of the very last made. It sat on the lot for over 6 months, and I bought it for a great price since the dealership dumped it. I did not want a flashy car. I wanted a performance car that just disappeared into the crowd, and I have been totally happy with it for over 17 years.

[@weegeemike]

I remember when these came out. My parents are boomers that grew up in the golden years of performance in the 60s and early 70s, so when they heard the rumor the GTO was coming back they were super excited. That excitement turned to disappointment when they actually saw the car. Like you said, it was just too bland, too rounded, too jelly-bean looking like the vehicle styling of the 90s that had gotten tired looking and passe by 2005. This cat looked like a 2 door Camry or Taurus. The platform of this car was really good with its RWD, great LS 6.0 and available manual. The dimensions were good and suited American taste, for the most part. A totally new body design would have gone a long way, especially in the mid-'00s when the retro look became popular with the '05 Mustang and '06 Charger. The car was also a little pricey back then, quite a bit more than a comparable Mustang. On the other hand, the Mustang GT of the same year couldn't TOUCH this GTO, as the Pontiac had 100 MORE HP. The Mustang had 300 while the GTO had 400 hp. Like I said, very competitive on paper and in terms of performance, but just didn't inspire or excite people when they saw it, especially the boomers that knew of and grew up with the original GTO that was a very dramatic looking vehicle. So close, but no cigar. GM went on to release the G8 and in later years the Chevy SS. Both great Australian performers but still didn't have the looks Americans wanted in their performance/muscle cars, and as a result those cars were sales flops too, even though they were really competent performers. It's almost like GM didn't learn its lesson with this GTO the first go around. The looks have grown on me as ive gotten older, I'd buy one if I could find one in okay condition for the right price. However, since they weren't great sellers when new, they're pretty hard to find now 20 years later. Great video as always, Jon. Keep it up!

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks much!

[@Noneofyourbusiness2000]

Stock, the 05 Mustang GT actually did the exact same 13.5 in the quarter. The Mustang was almost 300 lbs lighter. Now if you are talking modded , a cammed, headers, tuned GTO destroyed any Mustang without a blower.

[@teddymullins3706]

It's clear Jon you do not like the GTO But I drove 1In 2005 And if you were to drive 1 you will Fall in love with it, The 1 I drove had a manual shift I had it at 130 miles an hour in 3rd gear With 3 more gears to go!!!

[@bikingD]

Not really a Mustang comparison. GTO: better engine GTO: Better Interior. GTO: Better suspension. This is more competitive to European cars. More reserved vs retro boy racer Mustang looks. This has aged so much better than an 05 Mustang.

[@AllCarswithJon]

I appreciate the comment, but I humbily disagree the GTO aged better.

[@Noneofyourbusiness2000]

It's just like a Mustang and certainly more like a Mustang than European cars. Same layout, same customer base, and they even have identical performance, both doing 13.5 in the quarter. The LS2 is definitely a better engine and has more potential. The interior is a preference, but the Mustang's was more modern at the time. I didn't like it but most people did. Maybe you are thinking of the SN95 interior. You are also wrong about the suspension. The Mustang was faster and more nimble in the corners. I don't know why you think this thing has aged better considering Mustangs still look very similar to the 05. This thing looks like a boring front wheel drive Pontiac Grand Am or Sunfire. If your going by the resale value, the only reason it is worth more is because Ford sold a crap ton of Mustangs in the 2000s and the GTO was only available from 2004-2006 with on 40,808 GTOs sold. For those same three years, 457,363 Mustangs were sold.

[@Poopsticle_256]

Watching the Top Gear review of the Vauxhall Monaro GXR when it was new, it seems a lot more “raw” in one way or another than most upscale European offerings

[@SparkZ1420]

I own a 06. Wanted one since it came out. For those who don't like these cars, all I got to say is "you don't get it."

[@paulsolin-ql5il]

I worked at a GM dealer when these were new. I loved them. They've really held their value as well. I really nice one is still 25 to 30k.

[@Noneofyourbusiness2000]

As boring as it looks, it's still the most interesting vehicle you've covered in a long time.

[@joelbosso1331]

I had an 04 GTO and I wish I had kept it. By far the nicest GM interior of the era.

[@chief1972]

I have to say I agree with everything you said.I was really disappointed when these came out.To me they looked like a bloated front drive Grand Am or G6.

[@macgto]

Hi Jon, a couple things to point out: Holden designed this car in 1999, so by the time we got it, it was, admittedly, dated. Since the chassis was due to be sunset after 2006, there was no way GM could have changed the bodywork and still have it affordable or get it to market as quickly. As for the trunk, the small size of the trunk was due to having to relocate the fuel tank above the rear axle to comply with NA safety standards. On the Monaro, the fuel tank is located under the trunk floor. The addition of the hood scoops and the split rear exhaust was from an outcry of GTO enthusiasts, though GTO purists reviled the car anyway. Sadly, the marketing of the GTO was cut off at the knees by then Pontiac head Lynn Myers who directed the marketing team to not emphasize the performance aspect or refer to it as a muscle car. Dumb to the core with this car.

[@georgewilson1184]

I like the 2005& 2006 but not the 2004 because of the smaller Engine I think they are very Sporty Attractive cars

[@jasoncurd-ballard6894]

If memory serves me correctly, the OG GTO was an undercover muscle car based on the Tempest. I never got the hate for the styling. Why does everything have to shout "I'm performance"?

[@user-qi8ns1fo5d]

Concept car at Australian Motor Show in nice dark blue form was better then Pontiac GTO but HSV GTO design should been sold in USA.

[@plomaturbo]

I agree, the hsv gto kit would have brang some excitement

[@mumwifeteacher]

1990 Chevy C1500 454 SS | Retro Review Reaction please. Keep going with gm muscle

[@AllCarswithJon]

I will add it to the list. Next week: Pontiac 6000 STE and Fiero. :) shhh, don't tell anyone!

[@plomaturbo]

Check out the hsv gto coupe, thats the bodykit the American version should have gotten

[@tomtbi]

I have seen model kits of this generation of GTO but I have yet to build one ..

[@tomtbi]

I have built several GTO model kits from 64 to 72-(64 GTO Convertible,65 GTO,66 GTO,67 GTO,68 GTO,69 GTO Judge and 72 GTO)..

[@sunsetlights100]

Commodore 2 door monaro here in NZ Australia has atrong following even today discontinued sadly

[@davinp]

GM had also brought over a Chevy sedan from overseas which didn't sell well either

[@plomaturbo]

This gto is simply a Holden monaro (2 door commodore) with different front treatment, the last g6 and g8 pontiacs were Holden commodores to, the Chevy ss you speak of is the last generation holden commodore, a brilliant car that gm failed to market well in America

[@666cemetaryslut]

They sold what they intended to. It wasn't meant to stick around for generations.

[@ronhoover5516]

Funny as many people pick on the front end styling, it's actually the back end styling that leaves me cold on this car. It's just really bland (even moreso than the front, if that's possible).

[@ENCAGED79]

When i kook at this car, then look at the Grand Prix and Monte Carlo of that time, I see veey similar body lines. I think had they used those badges on this car instead of the GTO, it wouldve done so much better

[@raymond_sycamore]

Didn't it come with he Corvette engine? I feel like a couple years ago you could find one with a six speed for $5,000. Not anymore! They're like $20,000 now for a beat up one!

[@warrenny]

Jon, I'm usually the first one to complain about GM styling, but after reviewing a dozen popular 2005s, I think it was a pretty bland decade for sedan designs. IMO since the 80s, GM didn't have any good sedan designs...but this GTO is pretty solid. It had the silhouette of BMW 5 series.....it was styled aggressively for a sedan.... Obviously it has the typical American flare, but in this case, I thought it worked well. But it didn't sell well, so I suppose I must be wrong.

[@colinschmitz8297]

I think the problem was multifold. This car was halfway through its life before it was released with styling cues that were correct for mid 90s to early 00s. The price was too high for a Pontiac with it naturally being compared to the Mustang. It didn't have a powerful enough engine to stand out in the market. It didn't have an entry level model with an entry level engine. I think if they would have released this back in 2000, with a base V6, made somewhere in North America, and would have offered an optional higher output V8 to match whatever was used in the Z06 Corvette in the C5 and later C6. I think this would have had a better chance of being successful. I also would argue it would probably be more successful if it had been sold under a near luxury brand. Since back in 2000 through '02 there was still the firebird and Grand Prix coops that would naturally compete against it under Pontiac. The styling although not impossible in my eyes, I think would have naturally fit better under Oldsmobile or Buick to offer either a Cutlass 442 or Grand National coupe. I have seen this more as not entirely fitting either muscle car or personal luxury coupe completely. Kind of a cross between the two. If it had been sold under one of those divisions assuming that GM would have kept their mouth shut about Oldsmobiles potential discontinuation and let this be their last chance trying to try a different direction and gone full effort into the top level engine matching the Corvettes best offering, I think it might have worked.

[@ljfire100]

It’s a good car but it could have been a great car. GM just cannot fly to close to the corvette.

[@phillipjoseph8768]

Jon do you think it would've sold better if it was named the grand prix gt or something? I think gto didnt help it.

[@AllCarswithJon]

No. I think the styling killed it, not the name.

[@user-surly]

But... but but but..... the hood has racing nostrils! NOSTRILS! Not a distinctive enough look. Not at all a Chrysler guy but Dodge did a FAR better job rebooting the Challenger. Contemporary (post-1970's) Pontiac was permanently ruined for me by my experience with a '95 Grand Am where the poor finish and annoying squeaks and rattles and failing electric system were highlighted by electric door locks that I had to repeatedly "massage" to release the doors until I found and pulled the fuse. The throaty four was tweaked to give surprising performance which was nice but clearly at the expense of the engine itself as I ended up with a cracked block/head. Ultimately I was moved to try out Honda- after a stint with a '96 Ford Contour which left me underwhelmed with its ongoing parade of repairs. I think I subconsciously sabotaged nit with negligence myself and it dumped a timing belt at about 135k miles.

[@ericcue49]

So John, do you hate the styling?

[@AllCarswithJon]

Really couldn't say.. :)

[@timsimmons5190]

Looks like a Chrysler product

[@Macgyver-ranch]

Tampon

[@stevemorris270]

Too expensive and low Australia build quality

[@ultraviolettp3446]

This was the Pontiac death rattle. The problem was that the same idiot and resume padding, responsibility shifting, jerk that came up with the Merkur is the same idiot who though you could take an Aussie version of the failed car that failed as the Cadillac Catera and to make it a GTO. GM tried making a Chevrolet Nova into a GTO once upon a time so Heir Yutz figured he could do the same with this bland thing into a cross dressed Pontiac. This is proof that you can put fog lights, a big engine, and sports tires and wheels on a Pacer and still have a Pacer. Aussies have weird tastes - like the British but without class - and this car was doomed because of its cost. That styling was like a used bar of soap that was not imposing and took away character. Even Ford took its Mustang that was rounded off after its first movement away from the FOX body and re-introduced hard edges. And to make matters worse, this POS had too much of a decade old Grand Prix two door in it from the styling perspective. It just looked like someone else's car that had a Pontiac pig nose and the tail lights from a Pontiac version of the Cavalier. The prices were outrageous. Oddly enough this vehicle was much better than the re-introduced Chevrolet Shamaro which had a horrific interior and industry worst seating position/outward visibility. The Shamaro sold, the fake GTO did not.

[@dalepetersen6401]

I think if it was RWD it would have been able to compete with Mustangs and Camaros. The hood scoops were an attempt to "sportify" the pickle design of the body.

[@weegeemike]

It was RWD...

[@Alien_Nukes]

It was rwd , and easily out performed . It had independent rear suspension, rev matching for downshifts, better interior. More horsepower, better reliability. People simply didn't like it. But it's on par with a bmw for Chevy prices

[@666cemetaryslut]

Sorry Jon but this thing would eat a Mustang's lunch, 100hp and 1,400cc advantage and independent rear. That is probably why they left the Mustang out of the conversation. The GTO just didn't have the 05 Mustang's retro styling the boomers went crazy over.