2016/11/29: Tradition and Things That Don't Fit with Jonathan Pageau

[@MayaAbulashvili]

I've watched about 80% of Peterson's videos posted on this channel. Just when I thought I'm familiar with most of his ideas, there's this 30-min interview packed with so much new information! Bravo, Jordan!

[@abasslinelow]

This was the best conversation I've seen yet. I could have listened to you two talk for hours. You both complement each other extremely well and appear to be coming from the same place. Your grasp on religious metaphors and the exploration of those ideas was absolutely phenomenal. More please!

[@tatjanareithofer1403]

Mr. Peterson I want to thank you so much for inviting such an insightful speaker onto your channel. Pageau speaks to me on a very personal in that he studied art and was also disillusioned with contemporary art. I am currently studying at OCAD in Toronto and the sentiment is mutual. Finding your voice as an artist now in this society that wishes to destroy and deconstruct everything is really not something I want to subscribe to. I really enjoy this talk of resurrecting the father. I took a dream & metaphor class at OCAD and even my teacher brought up how destructive the Art World is becoming. And the body as well, it's always under so much attack. People want to invalidate it and say it's a social construct, giving leeway to this depraving nihilism. This gives me so much faith. Thanks you so much Jonathan! And keep up the amazing work! We need more artists like you to bring us back to some kind of order again. I can't begin to stress how much hearing you and all of these fantastic guest speakers have really helped me open my eyes. And I also want to say that your lectures on Personality have impacted me in the best way possible. I have sought out a lot Self-Help advice and I find yours to have been the most effective. I am only sorry hat you are going through such a rough time with gender pronoun nonsense but I am so glad that you are speaking against it. You've pointed out the beast and that in of itself is a very brave act. You inspire me greatly! Keep doing what you are doing!

[@tatjanareithofer1403]

Jordan B Peterson Will do! :)

[@octemberfury]

Might help to make sure you take technically oriented courses: ie go into design or illustration: you will learn more to improve your fine arts practice than in any fine arts class. And go to live figure drawing as much as you can!

[@tatjanareithofer1403]

Oh absolutely, Fabrication course are so crucial. Thank you for the tips!

[@BigRed4231]

One of the reason I have no interest in studying art is that today there is not very much, what Aristotle called techne, craftmanship. Putting a toilet in a gallery do not show any craftmanship. It did, for a short while, show some creativity: Its metaart that questions the idea of what we can call art, is it the object itself or is it the context (the gallery)?. However, you get bored of that pretty quickly. Just like the dadaist poems: playing with phonemes is fun only for a short while. The idea is, or was, original - but there is no craftmanship. Where is the aesthetic quality of a toilet placed in a gallery... I dont dislike it, but I dont think it got much to offer, in the long run, either, it´s anti-esthetic.

[@julialaweh9956]

I am currently doing my Masters in Art Criticism and Curating at OCAD. Over the past three months I've got myself into more trouble than ever by trying to expose how the university openly indoctrinates its students without giving them a choice to decide for themselves what it is that they want to believe in. I graduated from the University of Toronto 4 years ago, and it was nothing like the current situation at OCAD. I did my Masters in Political Science, and we were taught a number of different perspectives. No indoctrination. No expectations of students' natural commitment to cultural Marxism. As I have already said in one of my previous comments, at this point, my reputation at OCAD is pretty much ruined, which, I think, is quite amazing, as this predicament allows me to speak my mind more openly than if I had to pretend to be a cultural Marxist. I work as hard as I can to provide clear and persuasive arguments, and, while I'm under a lot of pressure and most of the times my voice trembles and my hands shake as I voice my opinions, I see how more and more people silently nod their heads whenever I speak up in my classes. It really gives me courage and makes me want to continue. While a lot of people at OCAD are what Professor Peterson calls PC authoritarians, there are still a lot of people who are reasonable leftists, and a lot of those who don't agree with the university's ideological direction, but are afraid to voice their opinions for fear of being labeled bigots, racists, misogynists, etc. Let me know if you want to connect and talk about it more.

[@stephenjay2209]

Having watched maybe a dozen videos with Jonathan Pageau (thanks for the intro Dr. Jordan!), I can say that in addition to his brilliant mind I love his joyous laugh. This is a man that loves what he does, is immersed in it, and can't help but spread the "Gospel" (literally the "Good News" in Old English and from the Greek) of his art to any who will listen.

[@flomccanuck8095]

I'm also thrilled with Jonathan. He's exotic, creative & brilliant but it's his infectious enthusiasm I find the most striking. Seems Jordan has chosen to mentor him, what a beautiful symbiotic relationship. Someone with Johnathan's great attitude is healthy for Jordan to be around too:)

[@saltpeter1396]

Terrific Stuff! I like that this makes Christianity look like a subtle sophisticated metaphysic if used properly rather that the usual simple-minded smear job that intellectuals usually engage in. Peterson is building a bridge for modern people to reengage with the history that we have so stupidly discarded. It's the medicine that we so desperately need right now.

[@meusisto]

As a former protestant, now a Melkite (Orthodox Church in communion with the Catholic Churches), I would write exactly what Monica has already written... So that's it. Unfortunatelly people know only protestantism or the most external parts of Christianity. Apostolic Churches are way deeper than this.

[@CynicalBastard]

Read about the Hesychast controversy, first, before praising Christianity, in toto. All religions have their purely esoteric truths & grave misunderstandings.

[@Tyler_W]

@@meusisto Eeastern Orthodox, rhe formerly Protestant converts in particular, tend to arrogantly look down their noses at anyone non-Orthodox, but to claim there's no depth at all to Protestantism as a general concept isn't well informed either. Honestly, I'm more inclined to believe that each broad-tent denomination (for lack of a better way to put it), Protestant, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox alike have their positives and negatives and get certain things more than others, and be foolish to dismiss any of them wholesale. It's not even specifically Protestantism that gets the bad reputation in America. It's dispensationalist evangelicalism. I know many and love them, but many aren't very philosophically nuanced.

[@meusisto]

@@Tyler_W I think this is true when we consider protestant writers, in philosophy such as Leibniz, or literature, such as C. S. Lewis. But as religion, protestantism lacks symbolism, "physicality", if I can call so, as I refer to the use of body in worship, and art in general, since it is iconoclast. Pentecostalism, as you said, is very poor, but we could remember that in the US Christmas was forbidden in calvinist colonies. This makes even older protestantism look narrow sighted, compared to traditional Christianity.

[@carlsonntag793]

Mr Peterson, sir, thank you for everything that you have done so far in your stance against the social and moral chaos that has swallowed our society. I also want to thank you for helping me understand and interpret what is going on and how to identify these problems but more importantly how they trickle down into one's personal life and have an effect on our relationships between friends and family and the relationships we have with ourselves. I'm busy with the Self Authoring course and have seen tremendous changes in my psyche. Keep fighting the good fight!

[@spodule6000]

Gotta say, as an agnostic atheist, I find these discussions of pre-scientific understanding incredibly illuminating, especially in relation to the situation the world finds itself in at the moment. Causing me a deal of self reflection - keep doing what you're doing Dr. Peterson, and don't let the bastards grind you down.

[@Chiclette-ld1xx]

Dr. Peterson, I'm here on this page because I listened to your interview with Patrick Coffin and you dropped Johnathan Pageau's name. That interview was wonderful too. Glad to see that you, Dr. Peterson, are in the process of transitioning from interviewee to interviewer in some of these videos. Your brilliant thought process and how you break it down is commendable. One last thought, all that has happened to you, I believe, proves your own beliefs. You have taken the risk to make the world a better place and have stood up with truth in hand not to beat the other over the head with it but to bring it into the light so that its reflection will be a guiding light to those who are open to hearing the truth. A grand and courageous stand for freedom in all areas of life. Thank you for the suffering you undertook in the last couple of years but this suffering has brought you out of the classroom and into the world for all of us to hear and learn from and make better choices and have the courage to be elements of change within our families and circles of friends and so on. Johnathan Pageau, I didn't know that you were here in Montreal. Thank you for sharing your life story and keep up the inspiring work that you do. I will be looking at sacred art in a new way.

[@caporegime1453]

Beautiful icons and a great speaker. Love from an American Greek-Orthodox

[@DanWeeks]

As an art school graduate myself, Jonathan's criticism of art institutions and their....dismissal of strong traditional foundations and technical skill, not to mention the ability to actually work and succeed as an artist, resonates very much with me. I usually recommend to young artists who ask me about art school that they avoid it for now, and just use KZbin and online media. It's just as effective, (arguably even moreso), and it costs only the price of monthly internet service.

[@KALioness910]

I'm a Greek Orthodox catechumen coming from a Protestant upbringing. My research into the early church history and traditions are what brought me to love the timeless beauty of Christian Orthodoxy. Would love some of the carvings shown to decorate my icon wall. God Bless.

[@meusisto]

Are you baptized now, brother?

[@ArcherWarhound]

Holy Smokes, the latter half of this video REALLY puts everything in context, doesn't it? You gentlemen just blew my mind and renewed my determination to join this fight in a meaningful way: zombies be damned, I'll do my part to revivify Christian traditions in our culture. Thank you for this, thank you for speaking the truth: you are heroes are living out your ideals and illuminating the path forward for the rest of us.

[@meusisto]

Where are you from, brother in the same fight for Christendom?

[@rachelpredicts]

Dr. Jordan Peterson, Your teachings are changing my life. I am so happy that you have come into the public sphere or else I don't know how I would have heard your words. Thank you for everything you are doing! I want to know everything you think!

[@TomaszWota]

What's with your fetish, Nik?

[@meusisto]

How has it been changing your life, Rachel?

[@CaptCutler]

I'm a fan of synchronicity as it's been overwhelming lately. I'm recently became a Christian AND have been looking to understand Orthodoxy better. Thanks, Dr. Peterson, for playing a role in helping me understand Christianity with more clarity. I hope to see you destroy "new atheism" after you're done with protecting free speech.

[@jasonm7700]

I'm not sure how you define "new atheism" but I'm an atheist myself and I can appreciate that religious symbolism can provide good insights about human nature and building a sense of purpose, as Dr. Peterson touched on in this video and others. One need not be a believer in mysticism, deities or the supernatural to appreciate these lessons. I might note that people like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Gad Saad, Michael Shermer and others are fully alongside Dr. Peterson in showing rejection of political correctness authoritarianism and postmodernist irrationalism. The anti-SJW pushback has quite a large tent housing different perspectives.

[@Rachel_M_]

Capt. Cutler i love how synchronicity works in my life... .... However i must confess that sometimes synchronicity does my head in, especially when ir's number related. i've had a 6 or 666 thing going on for about 2 months. i even found 4 old british sixpences during some house clearances at work in the space of a week (at 2 different houses, one at one job, three at another) it seems to be switching to the 11 11 theme again at the mo,....and finding a masonic edition of the bible during another house clearance at work recently.... and a koran fell on my head at yet another job a week later.... .... it just wont quit recently XD

[@MrBoywonder1985]

The NAs tend to be more vocal and histrionic as well; the old-line atheists weren't like this and respected tradition and even religious purposes, and they certainly understood the importance of philosophical thought. Dawkins, Harris, and Co. tend to be philosophical neophytes at best and ignorant dilettantes at worst.

[@MrBoywonder1985]

Blessings to you on your new journey. May it be filled with fullness and joy.

[@CaptCutler]

JC M New Atheism is a cult. A cult of personality. It's led by personalities, not reason, not logic. These people are banking off of subverting intelligent kids with computer animation and snarky vitriol. They say "Look at the staaaars!" like the typical misdirection of a conman. They tell you that you came from slime, that acid rain hit a rock until it turned into life (magically), then over billions of years *randomly* became *you*. Atheists find this explanation more appealing for obvious reasons, but it's equally obvious that it's ridiculous. Then when you point this out, all you get is the snark that your average atheist has been taught to parrot from these cults of personality. Bill Nye is an engineer, not a scientist. Climate Change proponents are 99% political since all they really know is the argument given to them from people who themselves are not scientists. The new atheists faith is in science, which about every 100 years has to say "Oh, we were wrong about this and that".

[@jamesblack8173]

Everything you say about reviving the culture resonates with an intuition that I've been following as a poet on my journey as an apprentice. The feeling has been very strong that a poet should be a vessel for the culture. It's heartening to have it affirmed by your research.

[@Sam-xg3mr]

Thank you so much for all of this awesome content, Professor. Your perspective is a breath of fresh air. I've been completely hooked on your Maps of Meaning lectures. Just starting this video, but I'm excited to hear Mr. Pageau's perspective. Keep it up! This stuff is invaluable.

[@aleksandarmilic4986]

Jonathan Pageau is a name I came to know through a friend who is a historian of art that specialized in Orthodox Icons in Byzantine. It was a pleasure to listen to this conversation, your voice echoes here in Serbia.

[@galileo_rs]

It seems that a loot of Serbians watch Peterson.

[@aleksandarmilic4986]

Really? I truly didn't notice. But it kinda makes sense, a lot of things Jordan talks about are things we experienced first hand here in Balkan. And I'm personally a philosopher so it all falls into place, at least for me. He pointed me in the right direction, so to speak, helped me understand myself better.

[@galileo_rs]

Serbian presence can be "detected" in the more political comments, I guess it's due to our understanding how different political forces can lead to chaos. I came across his lectures when I saw videos about SJW and his fight against PC politics. So I'm mostly interested in the political aspect as I fear that the same nonsense is coming here. I watched some other videos of him and I love how he defends the "religious" wisdom in today's secular world. Great balance to "Dawkins like" anti-theist philosophy. Unfortunately it seems that Peterson is being pushed in to the right wing spectrum and the real issues get masked by the usual idiotic American political polarization.

[@buffgarfield5250]

Peterson is Canadian.

[@galileo_rs]

+J. dJ Stating the obvious ?

[@evolvingerinb]

How fascinating this wonderful exchange was. Like two new friends caught with excitement through exchange. I look forward to more of this. Thank you both.

[@picklerick2771]

Anyone Jordon fans than haven''t seen him on this weeks joe rogan experience, please watch it, it's life changing.

[@marianam8643]

0100011001010101CK I agree, just watched it, it was amazing

[@matthewhodge3405]

I watched that today. I haven't seen all of Rogan's podcasts, but out of the ones I have seen, that is my favorite for sure.

[@Gyppor]

I agree, it's a must watch.

[@NorthStrongSC]

Very very inspiring I find. As are a lot of the Maps of Meaning videos. Not in a silly "motivational" way but inspiring, in the sense that I find myself more inclined to strive towards becoming better in every way and find myself stewing on the truth of the words for days after listening to the talks.

[@RobSinclaire]

Nik Kingman: to find the words;..."a few decent things left on the web" was quite alarming considering what preceded them!

[@KEPellizzeri]

wow Dr. Peterson I am 100% enjoying the discussion I am listening to. much of the discussion are things that I have thought about myself. but listening to you both has filled in some gaps I am truly thankful. please do not stop fighting for what you believe, do not Bend to the pressure of ignorance, and most of all as you have been keep your patience for it is the key thank you again I'm going to start listening to part 2.

[@Spright91]

Your mind is a resource Jordan keep it up. I'm going to watch every video you make

[@SupaThePink]

"The Metaphysics of Pepe" This is the video I've been waiting for for my entire life.

[@PhillipAmthor]

My first name is pepe and its funny for me how people say to me that im an hate symbol xD

[@flomccanuck8095]

It's fabulous!

[@michaelparsons3007]

Jonathan is definitely my favorite Christian. Love seeing these two together.

[@StreetBoi69uk]

This is just too good! I'm surprised Johnathan is SO knowledgeable of stories and fables and the psychological analysis of them. Perhaps this is essential for real artistic pursuit. Can't wait to see part 2!

[@lindamccloud-bondoc963]

The casting off of form that Johnathan Pageau talked about has happened in writing, too. About 30-40 years ago, our culture decided that, to properly express important ideas, people did not need to know about grammar, sentence structure, the form of argument and the organization of ideas. Consequently, children learned how to dump their thoughts in a stream of consciousness onto paper, but never learned to structure and develop those ideas. This has left many university students without the ability to express anything beyond the most superficial of ideas.

[@ChristensenErik]

I'd like to see you let the interviewee get a little more uninterrupted time to talk and get their point across. As an example, how Joe Rogan let you pause and get your thoughts together, didn't interrupt, etc. It's hard because you have a lot of relevant things to say, so it's not like they are exactly tangents. But we have hundreds of hours of your videos where you present your views, and only a few minutes to try to really grasp the point of the person you are interviewing. Anyway, I enjoyed the video, I just think that is something to keep in mind if you make more videos where you are less of a lecturer and more of an interviewer.

[@georgemargaris]

Erik Christensen , what makes you think this was an interview? This was a friendly discussion about a previously agreed upon theme. One expert inviting another expert to meet and share their findings.

[@georgemargaris]

Dan Lawrence , again, how is what we see here an interview? Peterson is practically letting us *eavesdrop* on one of his research exchanges, and you guys complain about it not being audience-friendly enough. smh...

[@ChristensenErik]

Call it whatever you want. I think it would be more enjoyable if the other person got a little more time to talk and was interrupted less. If you think the video is perfect as is, that's great. I think it could be better.

[@kendallburks]

My thoughts exactly, thank you... It makes for a less fluid and interesting dialogue because the interviewee is constantly fighting to finish his thought and doesn't have a chance to actually respond to the points Jordan makes during his interjections. The conversation still went some good places, but as someone who has heard many if not all of the points Jordan Peterson makes in this video, I would prefer more spontaneous reactions to fully completed thoughts rather than "oh what you just said reminded me of this thing I know that's super important and I have to say it right now!"... Jordan Peterson is generally able to practice what he preaches with regard to listening (Carl Rodgers!), but his style here seems to reveal a greater desire to speak than to really listen and have a dialogue. Of course, it's easy to criticize... Just one man's opinion!

[@georgemargaris]

"..because the interviewee is constantly fighting to finish his thought..." Seriously guys, I've been watching this video for the third time now (while making my own notes) and I don't see any of what you describe. Are your *micro-aggression detectors* cranked up to the max or something? I do see both people interrupt each other at times, but it's perfectly within reason. lol

[@tttony]

I became very excited and curious by reading all these fellow subscriber comments. This shall be a fine community of idea-minded people, indeed!

[@phillup33]

This conversation is so good. Thanks for everything you do Dr. Peterson. Love the new editing style as well. ♥

[@Galvaxatron]

Thank you for making all of this amazing content available to us all. You are changing lives. Speaking of the host and the stranger, I plead with you to take it easy on the interruptions.

[@overcamehim]

Thank you for interviewing Jonathan and bringing out this interesting exchange. I especially enjoyed the telling of Genesis 18. I would only add that the first verse of the chapter tells us that it was the Lord who appeared to Abraham as he sat in his tent in the plains of Mamre. When Jesus Christ appears on earth in the Old Testament in a different form, it is referred to as a Christophany. Another example is the Lord God..not simply God but the Lord God, Jesus Christ, when He interacts with Adam and Eve in the garden in Genesis. Another example of a Christophany is found in Genesis Chapter 14 where Melchizedek, the priest of the most high God, the King of Salem, whom King David refers to in Psalm 110:4 and Paul also in Hebrews 6 and 7. Of course in the scriptures, everything must be read in it;s context. Shalom in Jesus.

[@TomorrowWeLive]

As a Christian (raised Evangelical, but increasingly drawn to Orthodoxy), thus was an absolutely fascinating discussion. Also, you should totally do a video with Stefan Molyneux.

[@TomaszWota]

Molyneux loves his own voice too much to have a conversation.

[@shayneswenson]

Molyneux is a crypto-positivist. He's also insufferably narcissistic.

[@leo333333able]

Molyneux is actually pretty good with guests...... he listens, he does not interrupt and picks up on points raised. [he does come across as narcissistic tho ....lol]

[@leo333333able]

I'd be interested in seeing Molyneux talk to Jordan, simply to see if he would acknowledge in some fashion that Jordan is smarter than he is.

[@meusisto]

I am a former protestant, now Melkite. Totally go for Apostolic Churches, man. You don't know what you are missing.

[@dwayneeutsey8162]

Beautiful artwork and a fascinating, edifying conversation. Thank you for this discusion, Prof. Peterson.

[@EgilWar]

Even at my age I collect bricks of knowledge for a better understanding on life. Thanks.

[@Sam-xg3mr]

Egil Lomeland My high school was founded by Aldous Huxley and Krishnamurti, and the school's saying was "aun aprendo" -- or "I am still/always learning"

[@elvisdelarge]

saro ben so

[@chriscalyx8725]

+Clockwork Elvis com

[@nomatawot]

Oh an icon artist a rare breed .

[@Rachel_M_]

NOMATA WOT we're not that rare ;-) lol.. amongst other projects i draw monochrome pen and ink meditative mandala to bring forth ny unconscious. i'm always surprised at how much iconography spontaneously appears in them.

[@Rachel_M_]

veilofreality​ I saw the notification of your comment, but unfortunately i can't seethe comment itself. No idea what's going on there??

[@crucifixmegabuster95]

great talk can't wait for part 2. you made my entire though process change completely.

[@sunbro6998]

These guys are dropping mind bombs.

[@Mantinae]

Amazing discussion. Can't wait for part II.

[@erisdiscord1618]

I study 19th century drawing and painting techniques at an atelier, and my skills are so much better now than what any university arts professor could ever have taught me. Ateliers are becoming more popular again, and their is a rising interest in realist art. There is such a place in Toronto called the Academy of Realist Art. You should check it out.

[@thebadman7471]

You are a hero to free speech, saw your podcast with joe rogan, absolutely amazing. As an atheist your connecting of religious stories and stories of today with all the same underlying tones and themes was so enlightening and eye opening. You have all my support professor kermit :) from England.

[@everettelliot5085]

Good to see you again professor. Keep up the good work, no matter what happens with UofT you've secured an avid readership.

[@Hemios1]

@Jordan B Peterson I have a criticism for you in this video and I feel like I ought to be vocal about it, as you are an advocate of true listening and paying attention. You interrupted your guest several times throughout this interview as he was getting a thought and I am just drawing your attention to this.

[@SusejFTW]

Random thought. You can always edit the footage after. Hope you are in good spirits. -Mikael.

[@ramenagenda]

Dr. Peterson, I think an issue you should revisit is the concept of Ouroboros and where your guest's train of thought was headed at around the 28 min mark. His words literally brought you to sense the Chaos and Contradiction in the SJW gender recognition issue. There is order in the disorder of Multiplicity just like there's disorder in the order of your own Truth. These represent the Yin/Yang of the Tao which a completely whole idea worth paying attention to.

[@pvoshefski]

FYI I teach people how to draw traditionally at my local community college. This is where this type of education is happening. It's a mind expanding class as well as one that teaches you how to draw...at the same time. Maybe this was how fine art education was in the 90s but not today at my institution. It's 2016.

[@shawnski001]

Nice to see your subscriptions skyrocketing!

[@wantingthesky]

thx powerful joe rogan

[@jasonm7700]

Indeed! A little victory yell inside me goes off whenever an articulate anti-SJW youtuber's subs surpass those of Steve Shives.

[@thebadman7471]

His joe rogan podcast was amazing.

[@follow_fraser3081]

I really really enjoyed this. I like the format with the photos between the video feeds, Jordan. A bit of feedback if you are planning to do more videos like this one

[@achievement84]

I enjoyed how this discussion touched on how all things are changing and need to change. But also included within that discussion was the concept of accepting change or the unknown in the propper way (or through the propper mechanisms, such as free speech) in order for society to grow and be prosperious. Great stuff. Looking forward to part II.

[@dietrichotto14]

I like Orthodox Christianity. It is very ancient, beautiful and rich with tradition. I used to be an evangelical Protestant, and it just wasn't the same. I feel like just attending an Orthodox liturgy, you get a sense of "wow this truly is ancient, historical Christianity".

[@yeaown8139]

The metaphysics of Pepe... Looking forward to that one!

[@Jeff97Aeris]

Yeaown For that, look up Styxhexenhammer666. He has so much other cultural/political assessment content and is just as intelligent as Jordan Peterson in my opinion. You should really check him out.

[@matthewhodge3405]

Latent Soul Hell yeah man. Styxhexenhammer666 is the man. I watched him on election night. I knew he would know what's up.

[@Jeff97Aeris]

matthew hodge yeah man lol. It was fun to see him blown the fuck away about Virginia, Wisconsin, and Michigan and NH.

[@matthewhodge3405]

Latent Soul Who wasn't surprised though dude. You seem like a cool dude. Wanna be best bros?

[@dietrichotto14]

PRAISE KEK

[@pamelawestenbarger2945]

I really enjoy watching Dr. Peterson, love his stance on freedom of speech, wish I had more instructors like him when I went college

[@MarttiSuomivuori]

Finally an aindult who is saying things as they show up in the light of data and discussions with informed people. It really is not about politics, identity and relationships...it is about becoming something you weren't, shape yourself into something that is&has more. This is relevant.

[@seablue5]

I enjoyed the use of the images in the center frame relating to the current focus of the conversation.

[@adamwilcox3758]

I like that they are having a dialogue about these issues, while being of two apparent tangible creation stories. One being a combination of physical/literal and the other metaphorical. What I love is that they do a good job of layering the complexity. Because that is truth, all truths combined together is The truth. And the truth will set you free. Free from yourself and your own tyrant in your mind. What I chose to believe is similar. That Jesus was metaphorical and literal. But that the scripture is also very layered into our biology as well as our epistemology. It’s fascinating, and also encouraging. It’s a fair space to sit across from another human being and just be. Be good, and be a good neighbor, a good host. Love it!

[@pointcuration1278]

In regards to Bill C-16 and Dr. Peterson's fight against authoritarianism, this is perhaps the most important video I've seen so far. Thank you for having the courage to walk towards the fire, Jordan.

[@nataliajakubek8830]

I've always loved your mythological, archetypal analyses

[@inadiva44]

So looking forward to the next episode of this amazing conversation!

[@ethakis]

I'm not a christian, was raised in the catholic tradition but just couldn't bring myself to continue following it. That being said, this conversation has a lot of really great information even for more secular people like myself.

[@dalmatinka1032]

Nik Kingman Sorry but that is a very ignorant thing to say. Read up on your history of the early Church, the Apostles and the Desert Fathers. The beginning of the 'Christian' Church or the 'early Church' WAS Catholic. It was until later schisms occurred, a major one being Protestantism by Martin Luther. The Early Church WAS NOT Protestant. It was created 1500 years after Christ, and so on with the other denominations under Protestantism.

[@ethakis]

Catholicism is the trunk of the tree that is catholicism. It is unbelievably ignorant to say that it has little to do with christianity. Catholicism is christianity.

[@vectorization]

Listening to your talks has opened my eyes to history, struggle and rebirth. I have found a whole new world of literature. So many books and so little time. Go raibh míle maith agat. (May you have a thousand good things)

[@ashbottlehog]

it's great to see Jordan collaborating with other people to explore these ideas.

[@rosco_p_coletrain1795]

Went on Pageau's website, and man this guy has some serious skill. To me art is something that normal people (like me with no art background) will want to look at and find deeper meaning hidden in the finer details because its beautiful. I went to D.C. several months ago and visited an art museum as a group. (I was in college at the time and we walked all around D.C. and visited the holocaust museum as well.) I accidentally ended up in the modern art section and it immediately put me off. Of everything in that section there were three paintings that i liked. All of them showed a great deal of skill and beauty and were full of detail, but all around them in that area was garbage. literal. garbage. Down the hall there was a room with a projector screen of a man painting himself in different colors. It felt like it was insulting my intelligence so i looked around at other people, some of whom looked confused and annoyed and left soon after. I will remember those three paintings but i still left the art gallery with a bad taste in my mouth. Its a shame that we are allowing the few actually good artist that make incredible things get drowned out in a sea of nonsense. Art isn't just for the artist it's also for the common man. He doesn't know what you're trying to express but he does know what is beautiful and what is ugly. Also greetings from Mississippi.

[@saltpeter1396]

To me great art can be appreciated by people who don't know much about art, like me. If you need to have your head stuffed full of theory before you can "get it" then I'm not interested in getting it. I went to a Rodin exhibit in Vancouver years ago and it was obvious even to a know-nothing like me that this artist was a genius. It's like the sculptures were radiating a force of some kind; like they were alive.

[@Cinearte]

A very interesting and enlightening interview with a religious icon sculptor, which is a very rare thing to do and I would think a difficult art form to master. Thank Prof. Peterson for posting this gem of an interview.

[@karmacounselor]

thank you merci for the words that explain what I have done making sermon books from my dad's lutheran sermons and bulletins and prayers..I am revivifying my father...it is a sacred work..thank you!

[@Sijaurais]

As many have suggested below, you should definitely consider starting a podcast. I'd listen to you religiously as you've been a breath of fresh air for many of us suffocating from a horrendous amount of brain farts.

[@chuckhough]

Agree with Rogan. Get a podcast going as well. Easy access audio what be wonderful and increase listenership. Keep up the excellent, Jordan. Thanks!

[@P0ppaH]

Hi Jordan. I listen to your lectures while I do my woodworking. Thank you for your contribution to society. To help your production quality a little bit, I suggest that you Google the "rule of thirds" to frame your head shots. In short, your eye line should be placed about a third from the top of the frame. I just wanted to add a little value to your life since you have added so much to mine. Have a great day!

[@ValouQc]

I also studied arts in Quebec and because of the refus global our teachers weren’t into basis of techniques and jumped right away to expression without technique. I then studied animation drawing and it brought me a lot of structure.

[@Future_looksbright]

Holy crap, the word “demonstrate” has a whole new meaning now 🤯

[@Orandu]

24:25 time stamp

[@loniousmonk]

Jonathan- I'd like to hear more about what you were saying at 4:43. Can you describe the character of these strict hidden/pernicious rules one would be expected to follow in order to be considered legitimate in the contemporary art world?

[@MrLaggan]

Basicly deconstruction good is evil evil is good In my opinion we are in the last days but thank God for Jesus just call on Him to save you and you will be saved and you will come back to life and you will have life more abundently God bless you stay safe

[@ZachJenkins]

i think you guys are due for another chat. you two push the limits of each other's knowledge in the best way

[@jessecerasus9621]

I like what these men are talking about and I like their friendship. 23:55 Watch this: Because Mr. Peterson was paying attention, he made the connection between the French word ''montrer'' and demonstrate in English. Watch what they unpack together from there. It's the alchemy of a conversation between two great minds.

[@sailorbychoice1]

26:40 When you are on the bridge you are neither here nor there, not of land nor of water, and the bridge limits your freedom to move, you can only go forward or back with no left or right. I love this discussion!

[@cornfedwarrior]

Just finished JRE #877 and you got yourself subscriber #78,546. Can wait to hear more from you. Thanks!!!

[@jiersk]

Nice to see that you're becoming better at editing your videos. I think it will have positive effects on the amount of views your coming videos will receive.

[@notinterested100]

Dr Peterson, I know it was something of a throwaway comment on the Joe Rogan Experience but something on Archetypal biblical stories would be a must watch. Thank you for what you're doing. From N Ireland.

[@redguy2076]

After going to Italy and seeing all the religious art, this conversation is a great way for me to process everything. I highly recommend going to Rome, to Vatican and to Venice. It is a life-changing experience. You will really feel the drive of artists hundreds of years ago to create supreme works of art, worthy enough to depict deity. The modern world is trying to dump tradition and exchanging it for meaningless self-expression. Imagine waiting to see great works of art in churches or museums filled with religious art then a young middle-class couple cuts in front of you while you are in a queue. Everywhere you go, people take selfies but don't stop to question or to revere the work in front of them. Taking selfies is like ticking off a checklist for them. You go in to the Sistine Chapel and here many voices but prior to going in you see multiple signs asking you not to talk. Outside all these places, you see peddlers selling tickets, selfie sticks and flinging rubbery things into the air. Sadly, this is what the world has become. I will explore Orthodox Christian art after this. Jordan, thank you as always.

[@kyarimaresuki]

As a child, I revered classically trained artists and felt frustrated with my limitations--just as I am now. But I never resented the hurdles ahead of me because I recognized that to say something, you have to know how to say it. You don't have to have prestigious training, but you have to find your tools and know how to hone them, have the passion to do it. Even as a kid I knew this! Yet around me, I heard kids and later, even adults get upset by the idea that art wasn't always a free-form process of vomiting onto paper. Luckily, when I went to an art school we were trained in technical skills. Yet there, I heard young adults complain sometimes, too (Why were they even going there? For a piece of paper that said they attended?). But some were broken down and grateful for it later, particularly the photography students who were made to draw--which means, to learn to see again. I enjoy various types of art, even amateurish pop art. I can find something to appreciate in many areas. But even as a person who is enamored with a variety of modern things, there is often something incredible, majestic, eternal in the works of the old masters, in the works of traditional craftsmen. Even as an atheist, I love religious art that took passion to create. I am moved by churches and cathedrals and can be moved by their pillars, stained glass, icons, the gold that today some would take as evil consumption by the rich. I am moved when seeing what was being worked toward in a spiritual or personal way by the people who created them.

[@rae2737]

I had to go back to the beginning of this beautiful relationship. ❤️❤️❤️

[@marizel8911]

The part about Abraham & Lot and hospitality to three strangers gave me new insight on a book I have liked for a long time-"The White Dawn" by James Houston. Three stranded whalers are taken by Eskimos, and the resulting cultural misunderstandings and breakdowns in hospitality lead to conflict.

[@Drew15000]

Great talk Dr. Peterson

[@JHTVideos]

The fact that Art departments in Universities don't teach anything of real value in terms of technique, or even theory, isn't a new thing. I got my BFA from University of Saskatchewan over 40 years ago, and while I was working in a realism / surrealism realm, the prevailing 'fashion' was abstract expressionism - make any mess you like on the canvas, or in clay, or on your lithographic stone, and people would sit around in class offering various critiques of your scribbles. I had a tough go of it, and out of all the profs I had in my 4 years, I can only think of MAYBE 3 that taught me anything of real value in terms of technique or theory. This was at a time where literally the little card next to a painting in a gallery carried more information and meaning than did the painting itself.

[@tyevind]

An effective editing trick is to hide the visual part of a jump cut by using visual content (like the images you're using in this video) to hide the visual jumps in dialogue when you're cutting out dead time in the conversation. People can't hear the jumps if you hide the visual half.

[@ExNihiloComesNothing]

Can't wait for the Metaphysics of Pepe!

[@patricklonergan348]

Jordan This was a very fun talk to listen too. Thank you.

[@Orandu]

Years from now, people will study these videos to understand how a new beginning started.

[@CRAEager]

Great discussion, but you two need much more time so you can discuss things like hospitality in Greek myth (Zeus as the god of hospitality, the violated hospitalities of Procrustes, Atreus, Penelope's suitors in The Odyssey), and the sophisticated extension of such tales in Shakespeare (e.g., the comical step-mother in Cymbeline, or the animosity between Goths and Romans in Titus Andronicus, which leads to compelled cannibalism).

[@CRAEager]

Just to support Jonathan and refute "Jane Doe": Greek myth, like most oral traditions, is very flexible, and thrives on variation. Classical poets were in fact praised for their judicious variations on the skeletal myths, Ovid's Metamorphoses (a poem about and which is itself variation) being perhaps the example par excellence. Because the myths come down to us through stable texts rather than oral tradition, they may seem more fixed than they actually were. Thus whichever version is more popularly conceived or conveyed (e.g., "Helen left willingly") is treated with the certainty of fact, when in fact the wonder of myth is in its ductility.

[@Ignasimp]

What they say about postmodern art has had an enormous impact in classical music, especially in Opera. Where singers used to train for years to develop powerful yet elegant voices. Nowadays it's really hard to fins an opera singer that is half as technically skilled as the ones in the "golden ages" of opera. It's not that they don't value technique, but that the technique taught is not as efficient.

[@sitkahans]

love to see more of this!

[@TheMedWolf]

Professor Peterson - you mentioned in one of the earlier videos of the Political Correctness series how your wife had a dream indicating that time is running out to resolve the collective conflicts you diagnosed, and you said you'd describe this dream in a later video - please do.

[@mycattitude]

Do you know what video he said that? I don't remember that one.

[@mercophel]

It was in the interview with Dr. Gad Saad

[@AgeTheStoned]

Jordan Peterson podcast? I'm in for surrrre! Keep it up my man!

[@TheSuperCommentGuy]

These can basically be treated as such, I am.

[@AgeTheStoned]

TheSuperCommentGuy I'd be more inclined to listen to long form like this in podcast form while I drive or walk the dog. Not that I haven't been keeping an eye on what's going on with Peterson.

[@TheSuperCommentGuy]

The Stoned Age I see what you mean, maybe less editing, and maybe the audio file is hosted somewhere for streaming/downloading. That would be pretty cool.

[@AgeTheStoned]

TheSuperCommentGuy exactly!

[@mattgilbert7347]

I made this suggestion myself in the comments under one of his videos. If enough of us ask for it....

[@mycroftoeberlix1170]

Off to watch Pinocchio!

[@rachelpredicts]

I did exactly that after I heard him interpret it!

[@Sam-xg3mr]

Rachel Rodaz Check out his Maps of Meaning lectures, in particular the final of the 2016 series. He plays the movie, and offers his commentary on it as it plays.

[@mariusdonnestad2779]

Hi Saro, have you got the link to that video? I can't seem to find it:-) Thanks!

[@williammedford6031]

Wonderful interaction. Thank you!

[@TheDarkangelazrael]

Better than ANY Tedx Talk I have ever seen.

[@georgemargaris]

35:50 *The Metaphysics of Pepe*... I can't believe this shit, somebody punch me in the face... is this for real? I can't wait to watch this episode.

[@georgemargaris]

+Adam Kestle , I'm sure Jordan Peterson read many of the comments left under his "frog mask" video. This alone should have given him a deep history lesson about Kek mythology, and the rest will come ouf of his personal knowledge being a brother of the Kwakwaka'wakw tribe. The synchronicity is insane. He'll probably teach us aspects of the Kek Mythology even us Veteran Pepeists aren't aware of.

[@jasonm7700]

I look forward to this too, especially if there's some discussion around the Southern Poverty Law Centre's admonition against Pepe. SJWs treat Pepe like it was a demonic symbol, kind of like how some Christians might view an upside-down cross, a pentagram or the # 666. Perhaps more tenuously, Pepe is kind of like the SJW version of 1984's Emmanuel Goldstein, which they can direct their "two minute of hate".

[@SpitshineSneakers]

I'm sure, considering Peterson's interested in symbology and archetypes, that he has a professional interest in the development of the Kek mythology. Even if we all know it's not serious.

[@georgemargaris]

SpitshineSneakers ... I would argue that "serious" memes are doomed to fail anyway. Seriousness is irrelevant (and even counterproductive) in the grant scheme of the MEMEsphere... it's about how people interact and spread ithe underlying message of a Meme that matters. There are probably 100k Pepe Memes out there, created by many thousands of people.... *none of them* coordinated their efforts in creating this *decentralized* KEK mythology... but ofcourse they let themselves be influenced by the Memes others created (but ONLY if they liked them). It's a giant positive feedback-loop. I would argue that this is how a "good modern religion" has to be constructed: preaching the values of freedom, individuality and decentralization. No wonder the birth place of Lord KEK is the internet. Anyway, we should reserve the serious stuff in real life to science. Religion should always be light-hearted.

[@buffgarfield5250]

the line between serious and not-serious is unclear. If Pepe is "just" a joke, its a deep joke.

[@campguydaniel]

Jordan, Thank you for the great guest and keep up the great work! As a bit of feedback, I do wish that you wouldn't interrupt as much, though it wasn't completely unproductive because you always seem to have something productive to say.

[@patrickpeterson6947]

Can’t wait for part 2 - thank you professor.

[@davidporterrealestate]

I can't wait for part 2 !

[@loxllollxol]

This video really gave me some insight into the old stories, thank you for this.

[@Grengis]

Jordan, I love how you analyse fairy tales that we all loved as a children and demonstrate the deeper meanings behind them. Have you looked at the story of Iron John? I think it's quite relevant in the modern day.

[@maciejasz78]

Regarding constraints and creativity: I’m from Poland. The best Polish comedy I know, comes from times, when there was an institutional censorship and authors couldn’t criticise the system or government openly.

[@gbush92223]

Absolutely fantastic discussion

[@Rachel_M_]

i really enjoyed that. many thanks to both of you for an informative conversation... .... i must confess that the section on your warnings of the PC monster made me think of the song _"Monster"_ by The Automatic, sorry ..... .......maybe there's a new anthem in there for you? ;-)

[@ganjiblobflankis6581]

Fascinating. This conversation reminded me of postmodern analysis in the subjects and words, but rather than bamboozling it was enlightening. You guys make them sound like children dressing in adult clothes.

[@libraryofthemind]

LMAO the Metaphysics of Pepe... I can't wait! Loved this video :-)