2016 Ford S Max timing belt failure & repair

[@mechanicmatt871]

My old boss used to say "if you try to save somebody money, it usually ends up being at your own expense." However, saying that, I always try to save money. I would have used that same belt again, it was only recently fitted. That car has been a bit of a nightmare, at least is running again now. I liked the usefulness of the bore scope. Cheers Matt

[@Russell_Duncan]

Your old boss was 100% correct Matt. We live and learn though. 🙄

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Yes, Matt & Russell. Ye are absolutely right any time you try and save money it comes back to bite you. But it can be hard to define where to stop at times 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Hybriddiag]

You were very right in your comment reply...modren cars are pain in the neck to work on ..no space to work in engine bay on top of that networks are nightmare lin bus canbus low speed high speed etc etc..modules for mirrors 😢..today i am opening air intake of cx5 2.2 by tutorial of your video and it helped 200% still trying to find out idle hunting in gear...cheers sir

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Thank you very much, some brands can be a nightmare to work on. I would think your hunting is due to the Exhaust camshaft being worn. Well worth removing the rocker cover for a look 👀

[@Hybriddiag]

@@kennedysgarage3281 going to do it soon and bundle of thanks 😊

[@michaelcoughlan1123]

Super job Peter. I really hope it us covered by the warranty

[@kennedysgarage3281]

I got the parts free & a few hours labour covered 🙂

[@michaelcoughlan1123]

@@kennedysgarage3281 Delighted to hear that Peter 👍

[@petecurran3995]

Belt supplier is bound to try their best wriggles - good luck Peter and 🤞🏻! A great fix again! Rockers designed to fail and save the valves. 💪🏻

[@kennedysgarage3281]

No cover from INA but Euro car parts did the parts free & cover some of the labour as a good will gesture. So good business from them 💪💪

[@petecurran3995]

​@@kennedysgarage3281result! 🙌🏼

[@paulmacklin4201]

INA components are top rated. OEM for many big brands, including Volvo. Their belts, bearings, water pumps and tensioners are superb.

[@patrickjordan7670]

Well Peter your are the man very unfortunate and lucky at the same time very unusual for that to happen I had a Peugeot 307 van 1.9 back in the 80ts in uk cam belt went on motorway I was doing at least 70 it broke the cam shaft in three places only 30 thousand miles on it can't remember what caused it i know it was a different type engine the macanic said to me what the fn he'll were you doing the engine was destroyed we put a new engine in it and ploud on we were working in London that time very busy great times.anyway i enjoy watching your videos you give give a lot of tips and tricks modern cars do my head in

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Hey Patrick, the modern car ehh. They can just chew you up and then spit you out again at times 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️ I’m delighted that you enjoy my videos & love hearing that you guys get some pointers (& I from ye) Delighted to have you on board & Thank you Patrick 🙏🙏

[@dermotwall78]

Belt failure can happen before its time Peter usually if you don't time up the high pressure fuel pump car will run fine but the pressure and vibration can cause the belt to fail

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Quite a few people have said this to me Dermot & I done quite some time ago & cannot remember. I believe I would have done it correctly but will have to check when it comes in again 😉👍👍

[@joeboss1750]

I would guess, that when the water pump impeller lost a paddle, maybe for a second or so, the paddle temporarily jammed the pump from turning, whilst the engine was rotating, straining the belt teeth that were interlocked within the pump teeth.. This would probably have weakened a few timing belt teeth, and eventually, the belt teeth failed. Just a guess, but it sounds the only plausible explanation, apart from a badly manufactured belt ! Fair play to you though, an honest garage owner, who actually stands by his guarantees. This is a rare commodity !!

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Hey Joe, I couldn’t tell a customer that he needed to spend another heap of money on his car. Especially through no fault of his own 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️ Also the impeller fell off a one piece so we thought couldn’t create any further issues, maybe tensioning the belt s as 2nd time. Who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

[@trevormansfield6495]

Really surprised it didn’t punch those cam lobes round Peter. I’m glad it didn’t. What a bloody nightmare job!!

[@kennedysgarage3281]

I have seen the lobes to spin quite a lot, but luckily not on this one. I’m thinking that the rockers must just be designed weaker than the camshaft 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

[@barrycoleman4686]

If they belt snapped they could possibly say that you shouldnt have tensioned it for a second time. The teeth shredded. Total failure of the belt. They should stand over it but mkre than likely wont be the case. Personally id always ask for a gates kit. Great video. I know that feeling when it fires it and you get away with just the rockers. . Gets ya tingling and all. The smile said it all 😂😂😂

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Once bitten twice shy, you are right on the Gates belt. No cover from INA but Euro car parts did the parts free & cover some of the labour as a good will gesture. So good business from them 💪💪

[@barrycoleman4686]

@kennedysgarage3281 that's not too bad so really. Least you got something covered. Headwrecking though. I see them green and white boxes I don't even open them. 🤬🤬

[@kennedysgarage3281]

@@barrycoleman4686 😂😂😂

[@frankkearney7174]

Another great video tks for sharing peter

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Hopefully you enjoyed it frank 🤞🤞👍

[@paulmacklin4201]

The tensioner setting is as per Volvo. It needs to be set and locked with pointer in the slot at a given temperature. This sets the tension properly. OEM for these parts is also INA as per Volvo, from FoMoCo days of Volvo ownership.

[@bastogne315]

Tough day at the office Peter. Sickner a part failing and knowing the workmanship was 100%. Hope INA come up with the cash. Great production as always.👍👍❤️

[@kennedysgarage3281]

No cover from INA but Euro car parts did the parts free & cover some of the labour as a good will gesture. So good business from them 💪💪

[@bastogne315]

Jeez fair play to them...❤

[@BlakeCDS]

​@@kennedysgarage3281what happened with that money when the information with the pump timing came to light? 😅 Knowledge is power must be difficult to know about all the nuances of the different manufacturers

[@jamesward5721]

Have much the same engine in my own yoke - its pushing 400k km at this stage - fairly tired. HG went there last week - being that I work on cars, I don't want to work on mine, lol, so I chucked in a bottle of Steelseal - looks to be all G once more.. The heater works again & it stays steady on temp - I barely care beyond that. Be Grand. My take on that belt crapping the bed is something is dragging/the belt maker dropped the ball. Or both. Probably both. Defender in today that keeps shredding the alternator belt - its had 3 belts elsewhere to date, lol - shredded them all. On belt 2 they replaced the alternator as well - but used (crucially) the same pulley.. it - predictablyish- shredded that belt too. Belt 3 went on - it shat that & now it's here "Not charging". Cool... I took off the alternator, spun the pulley by hand and something was flashing like a strobe - unless you looked REALLY hard you'd not see it. One cooling fin on the pulley was kicked out by about 3mm - just the one fin. That fin was sawing through the belts. Plus the new belt the owner supplied - same spec as all the other replacement belts - was the wrong belt.. Looks identical at a glance - ain't on close inspection - it sits a fraction too high in the pulley because its 1 size too wide. I hammered the 1 fin back in place & ordered the right belt. The subtle shyte will get you every time. I have a Freelander in today for "a clutch" - using the "Trust but Verify" thingy, I had a proper look - owner states the clutch is gone & their usual garage won't do a clutch on it as they aren't comfortable but agree it needs a clutch - so its here. "My" version is the master cylinder is fcuked & the clutch is fine - which is correct. However, it would have been very easy to take other peoples word & launch into a new clutch - only to find that the issue remained. "Trust but Verify" - and never assume some simple thing ain't borked before you go diving into huge work. "Is something dragging?" would be my first question on this ^.

[@jamesward5721]

Or if I was a Gowl., I could have chucked on just a master cylinder & billed for a clutch. But then I'd sleep bad, so let's not. Or I could have taken the first price I got for a master cylinder from our regular supplier- €250 - billed the customer and on we go.. except they're available online for €46.. so I ordered one online & am now wondering what else our usual supplier is riding us on..... Lately they have been really sowing in the boot on prices even for boggo stuff. I get that things have slowed, but is that a good reason to ride regular customers? Apparently it is. So beware of that too. :-(

[@kennedysgarage3281]

@@jamesward5721 that was my first thought that something was dragging. But nothing was. The impeller only came off the pump which shouldn’t have caused any issue. So the only things were left were the re-tensioning of the belt or manufacturing fault. Also it’s funny that the newer belt didn’t have that coating 🤔🤔🤔

[@kennedysgarage3281]

No cover from INA but Euro car parts did the parts free & cover some of the labour as a good will gesture. So good business from them 💪💪

[@jamesward5721]

@@kennedysgarage3281 Just a thought but the wp might have locked for a split second as the impeller twisted before separating. That would be enough to strip teeth and then the wp would be spinning free again looking all innocent?

[@kennedysgarage3281]

@@jamesward5721 something like could have happened. There are lots of variables that can catch us out nowadays 😬😬

[@andymorris1311]

Bloody Great video m8 well done

[@completelyclueless25]

Hi there, very interesting issue ! However you haven't mentioned one poss cause Driver error !!!!! the only time i've ever seen a cam belt stripped is after a customer drop a gear at speed ? I have seen several caused by this 15 years as a service patrol with the RAC in the south of england and many many years fucking around with cars ( since 1977) most of the above happened at high speed coming off motorways Adding that I enjoy your videos very much John Carroll Surrey and Formerly Roscommon Ireland

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Wow John, that is something that never even entered my mind. That’s amazing that it happens regularly enough. It brilliant to have you watching from Surrey & I’m delighted you enjoy my videos, you made a fellow Irish lad smile on a Sunday morning. That is why I do this, it make you smile and you get other people’s verdict on problems. Thank you John 🙏🙏

[@gavinmccloskey5229]

Your really lucky. They normally turn the cam lobes out of phase too

[@keegan4039]

Great point , I don’t think he thought of that possibility or was it fingers crossed 😂

[@kennedysgarage3281]

I have seen that very commonly on the 1.6 Peugeot/Citroen engines. But to be honest it never even thought of it 😬😬😬

[@keegan4039]

@@kennedysgarage3281 I didn’t either till I saw yer man’s comment, then I remembered seeing it happening before, you got lucky , happy happy 👍

[@alikayhan9200]

Hi there how can I set when timing belt split and before installation new belt with cam shaft and crank shaft alignment Can you help me or suggest information Thanks 🙏

[@alikayhan9200]

I have ford galaxy 2017 diesel 2.0 lt

[@colmmccabe2998]

A few of them in my time snapping belts or tensioner on the chain given out.four rocker arms the most I've changed good design all the same no valve damage PSA where definitely looking Looking towards the future with that deasign😅 I no from experience if you remove the high pressure pump of the back of the camshaft And dont line up the too dots on the pump and set the cam on the second timing hole at the 6 o clock position your cause yourself big issues.the car will run perfectly fine but if this timing procedure on the pump is not done correctly the pump will send vibrations down the cam and over a short period of time it will snap the belt again. Hard lesson learned 😢

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Oh, that is interesting to know about the vibrations causing a problem. I’ll have to check that out. It’s all very interesting 🤔

[@colmmccabe2998]

@@kennedysgarage3281 due to having his happen to me I wouldnt have none either I to was Putting it down t a faulty timing kit. A colleague of mine who's a master tech in Ford put me right on this

[@kennedysgarage3281]

@@colmmccabe2998 something new to be learned everyday Colm 😉

[@budj7898]

What an absolute stinker, if it wasn't bad enough the first time with the crank bolt etc 😂 great job persevering and getting it running for the customer again 👌👌

[@kennedysgarage3281]

One of those cars that just didn’t want to do as it was meant too 🤬🤬 Euro car parts covered the parts & some of the labour, INA just took no accountability 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

[@vodonnell1]

I had a failure of a timing belt after 40,000 miles on my 09 Audi a6 tdi engine type CAGB only in it for 2 years it was a skf kit the teeth came away from the belt I suspect that there are "bad" belts out there did the work myself so I know it was fitted correctly.

[@kennedysgarage3281]

The Audi belt has that same coating over the teeth too 🤔🤔 No cover from INA but Euro car parts did the parts free & cover some of the labour as a good will gesture. So good business from them 💪💪

[@alikayhan9200]

Good job

[@damienkearns9922]

Peter you really do get the “best” of them 🫣 What a. Nightmare of a wagon..and it’s at the point now for both you and even more so for the customer that so many euros have gone into it that they need to put miles on it and use it…this would be a typical auction car otherwise…The belt pulling apart is the bullshittery (hope that’s the right spelling 😂😂) From everything you’ve said and it’s text book work…but manufacturers have a lot to answer for! I’ve a 1.6 2016 Meriva on the lift now….broken oil pump chain and jusy 117kkms !!! Where is the quality or workmanship in that!? It give me a good project but like your Ford a right 🤮🐷 to work on…engine drop and I’m wondering what else needs to be changed given the fault…all because of a poorly manufactured chain…An excellent video Peter…I thoroughly enjoyed it…both the failures and the successes give a real sense of the sort of day(s) you were having ….Out of curiosity…how long did that whole process take….

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Around 8 hours Damien,No cover from INA but Euro car parts did the parts free & cover some of the labour as a good will gesture. So good business from them 💪💪 Some pain in the bottom though 😬😬

[@AhkKk-wc4tl]

Same thing happened with a gates timing belt

[@kennedysgarage3281]

I had this one fail again after this video, watch the injector pump timing on these. I’m told that causes it. I have recorded that repair too & the injector pump timing off. I will upload it next week 😉👍👍

[@AhkKk-wc4tl]

@@kennedysgarage3281hi mate u uploaded that video

[@kennedysgarage3281]

@@AhkKk-wc4tl I actually haven’t yet. I actually forgot about you 😔😔 I will do for my next scheduled video 👍👍

[@kevinmc7545]

I done one a few weeks ago that came from another garage that had fitted a new high pressure pump and a new skf belt. Broke after 8k. Stripped teeth like that broke all rockers and bent valves. I was told the pump needs to be timed on its gear and then timed to the camshaft with that 2nd timing hole in cam sprocket. If not it can cause heavy vibrations thru the timing belt. Shitty setup.

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Hey Kev, a lot have people have mentioned that & even though I think it’s done I’m still going to have to double check when it next comes in 😉👍👍👍

[@kevinmc7545]

@@kennedysgarage3281 great educational videos👍

[@kennedysgarage3281]

@@kevinmc7545 and a great educational forum. Fantastic for pointers as you have just mentioned 😉👍👍👍👍

[@raywalsh5822]

well done peter not your fault that brand of timing belt failed

[@kennedysgarage3281]

Hey Ray, did you ever get one of those cars that just didn’t want to be fixed 😬😬

[@conjohn760]

Ina may be oe but it’s the cheapest quality I think that’s why manufacturers use it so much now. and from previous experience of this if you didn’t use a matching kit ie same make water pump and belt then it just ends up a blame game, think your pocketing this one mate

[@kennedysgarage3281]

No cover from INA but Euro car parts did the parts free & cover some of the labour as a good will gesture. So good business from them. I probably should have replaced the belt when the waterpump failed 🤔🤔

[@Russell_Duncan]

I wish you the best of luck in getting Schaeffler group to pay for that Peter. I personally think there’s more chance of Scotland winning Euro 2024 😂 but if they do I’m going to borrow the wife’s broomstick, fly it over to Ireland and buy you a pint of pink Guinness 😜. If we ever meet up, I’ll bore you with the story of how I got them to admit an LuK flywheel was faulty and then listen to them swiftly explain why they still weren’t paying me for it 🤬.

[@kennedysgarage3281]

😂😂😂😂 My brother owns a pub down the road from me & I think it has the best pints of Guinness I ever drank. Dave Sterling sampled a few when down one day and said it was the first time he ever tasted a pint so creamy. We must organise that 😋😋🍻🍻

[@BIE-bi3rb]

Fair play Peter for getting it going. You must be sick to the back teeth with it. I found out recently that the fuel pump timing is critical on these. (skip to roughly 5:10) Hope it helps.👍 .kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4avZnyporpgecksi=1tUIz1_C6slOoNdt.

[@kennedysgarage3281]

You are the 2nd guy to say that, I’m going to watch that link now. Isn’t this forum brilliant for spreading information like that 🙏🙏🙏

[@edmondsollaku6535]

Hi Peter, I agree with the above statement. If you have removed the fuel pump and not time it correctly, the belt will fail again. The cam shaft it's locked in different positions for pump timing.

[@kennedysgarage3281]

@@edmondsollaku6535 I’ll check it again before it goes out. Every day is a school day 😉😉

[@MartinJones-tl9kt]

Supplier/manufacturer warranty not you

[@kennedysgarage3281]

No cover from INA but Euro car parts did the parts free & cover some of the labour as a good will gesture. So good business from them 💪💪

[@pauloneill8912]

wheres your stetson cowboy

[@kennedysgarage3281]

And what did I do that makes you say that 🤷🏼‍♂️