Who Approved This and Why Is It Still Being Made? Wet Belt aka Belt in Oil Engines

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driving 4 answers

driving 4 answers

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 7 900
@d4a
@d4a 4 ай бұрын
Support the channel by shopping through this link: amzn.to/3RIqU0u Patreon: www.patreon.com/d4a Become a member: kzbin.info/door/wosUnVH6AINmxtqkNJ3Fbgjoin Grit: kzbin.info/door/t3YSIPcvJsYbwGCDLNiIKA
@julesviolin
@julesviolin 4 ай бұрын
⚠️5k miles oil intervals for all modern engines is key. Timing chains, guides cylinder walls and crank journals etc last last considerably longer. I've and others have proved it in the motortrade ✅️
@tsamuel6224
@tsamuel6224 4 ай бұрын
I found the video very optimistic, not depressing. If your voice helps them stop that ignorance in even the slightest way it is well placed optimism to think it is well worth trying.
@FireBeam
@FireBeam 4 ай бұрын
You can blame the company(s), but ultimately this goes back to regulations from the governments, full of people who don't understand ANY of these engineering problems, demanding better and better emissions. 😒 They should have stopped pushing a long time ago, and just accepted the significant gains already achieved.
@custardcatcher5195
@custardcatcher5195 4 ай бұрын
plz use that mindset with crumple zones and airbags! how many deaths from no airbags in the back seat?
@anthonyanglim7147
@anthonyanglim7147 4 ай бұрын
You are 100 percent right! It's Consumerism, Purposefully creating a product that Fails with the intent to force consumers to have to Buy More! Artificially creating industry financial security. Instead of a Product that you buy once every 25-50 years, you buy a product that you have to replace every few years. Even Lightbulb manufacturing has a Limit to the number of hours the Bulbs are allowed to last for the reason that they can keep making and selling them continuously. Yep, Evil, Dastardly Consumerism. And it has gotten worse and worse over the last 75 years. They don't even try to hide it it seems. I Love your Cannel Man! Awesome, Educational, and Informative!
@cameron20020
@cameron20020 4 ай бұрын
BMW also earns extra points for making timing chains that fail before timing belts.
@KapiteinKrentebol
@KapiteinKrentebol 4 ай бұрын
Blown Motor Werke
@lucaspoussard8279
@lucaspoussard8279 4 ай бұрын
The timing chain can't fail if the shitty plastic chain guide fails before ! ... Bmw logic
@megunded
@megunded 4 ай бұрын
and also .....but not only bmw , others do too ....BMW spared ONE ( 1 ) lid and gasket and moved to timing stuff to....the worst place to be for a timing chain , at the point where the most vibrations and inkonsistency occurs , at the clutch . and it makes it more expensive to maintain or change . sometimes engineers need a slap to the back of their heads .
@invertedpolarity6890
@invertedpolarity6890 4 ай бұрын
BMW's are not know for failing timing chains. Failing VANOS, connecting rod bearings, HP fuel pumps, plastic connectors, etc. but not timing chains.
@takomerp
@takomerp 4 ай бұрын
BMW claims to be the "Driver's car". They never claimed to be the " Owner's car" :^)
@Isthatyoudermot
@Isthatyoudermot 4 ай бұрын
But, a snapped belt means 100% fuel savings and a 100% silent engine. Now, where did I leave my carbon fiber submersible? 😂
@ArifGhostwriter
@ArifGhostwriter 4 ай бұрын
Aaargh!! Too soon??
@Isthatyoudermot
@Isthatyoudermot 4 ай бұрын
@@ArifGhostwriter never too soon 🤣.
@paulsmith5611
@paulsmith5611 4 ай бұрын
Walking also means lower emissions which is a win for the planet so the automotive companies can be proud of that. "More Ford owners than any other brand walk to do daily activities which means that we, the Ford Motor Company, are helping to clean up the planet."
@rylandrc
@rylandrc 4 ай бұрын
​@@ArifGhostwriter It's a 'low' blow
@ArifGhostwriter
@ArifGhostwriter 4 ай бұрын
@@rylandrc Low & very high pressure?
@Bapate-rh9be
@Bapate-rh9be 4 ай бұрын
Polymer scientist here: All polymers have in common, that chemical, mechanical and thermal loading/aging are not independent but reinforce each other, leading to drastically accelerated aging/failure. It is not completely impossible to develop a wet timing belt, but: The materials used would be drastically more expensive and development and accurate lifetime predictions would be extremely complicated.
@MrKalashnikov47
@MrKalashnikov47 4 ай бұрын
Kevlar is the way😂
@coffeepot3123
@coffeepot3123 4 ай бұрын
Do polymer scientist only eat from polymer bowls, use polymer cutlery etc?, i heard they do that.
@LG-ct8tw
@LG-ct8tw 4 ай бұрын
@@MrKalashnikov47 How do you hold the Kevlar fibers together?😉
@gregorymalchuk272
@gregorymalchuk272 4 ай бұрын
So are current wet belts just the same pedestrian dry belt chemistry? Are there any chemical differences?
@joshmanis9860
@joshmanis9860 4 ай бұрын
Ford should take notes from Honda lawnmower engines. Honda mower engine have had wet timing belts for years and I haven’t heard about any breaking. I’m sure a couple probably have broken but not nearly as much as ford
@grapsorz
@grapsorz 2 ай бұрын
in norway we have cold winter's. and a lot of ppl by these small cars to do short trips. the engines never get hot and the fuel dilution gets to be high. i have NOT seen a 1.2 PSA engine make it to 60k km without failure in those conditions. The belt start to fall apart and then clog the oil pickup and the engine is run 10-15k km on low oil pressure before the lamp comes and and ask you to stop. by then the damage is done.
@alphadiallo1655
@alphadiallo1655 4 ай бұрын
Most people choose their cars by liking the headlights and grill. Good Content
@Nathan0A
@Nathan0A 4 ай бұрын
Nowadays OEM’s seem to think people choose cars based on the infotainment 😅
@caralho5237
@caralho5237 4 ай бұрын
​Nowadays people choose whatever car they can barely afford 😂
@lauriecooper8194
@lauriecooper8194 4 ай бұрын
The motor manufacturers are trying to make these things the default petrol engine, in order to give petrol engines a bad name, so that they can push their awful electric milk floats on to the unsuspecting and gullible members of the car buying public. It's all a race to the bottom. Great video btw. 👍👍
@jackkenny4194
@jackkenny4194 4 ай бұрын
That is part of it 😂 but no first is engine and drivetrain life
@calholli
@calholli 4 ай бұрын
A shocking amount of them are chosen by the color.. "I like that blue one, not the gray one" -- lol
@mdude7778
@mdude7778 4 ай бұрын
The continued use of wet belts despite the known drawbacks only reinforces the belief that modern cars are not being built for long-term reliability. Awesome job on this video. 👏👏👏
@gregorymalchuk272
@gregorymalchuk272 4 ай бұрын
Cars are being built by the government.
@billd9667
@billd9667 4 ай бұрын
The manufacturers don’t care as the belts fail after the warranty is up. Then they can sell parts or entire engines and add to the bottom line. They figure (rightfully so) that buyers mostly buy another brand of vehicle whether they have had trouble or not, so why should they spend pennies to try to keep them as customers? It’s all in the actuary charts for them. Also, decent cars now last 10 years or more, so a frugal person will own, what, 5 new cars in a lifetime? Even less incentive to do the right thing for them.
@blauer2551
@blauer2551 4 ай бұрын
Wouldn’t expect anything less from Ford, same company that brought you the Pinto
@justins.1283
@justins.1283 4 ай бұрын
​@@blauer2551I had Two Pinto's and both were really reliable and easy to work on. The best one was the 2000cc engine in the '73 it actually had 5 main bearings in the block. Thats the same as most V-8 engines.
@DustinKillyact
@DustinKillyact 4 ай бұрын
Now ford has a plastic oil pan I used to think Ford was a ok vehicle for the money now I'm glad I'm a gm guy
@GuagoFruit
@GuagoFruit 4 ай бұрын
Engineer: uhhh wet belt would break down so much quicker Exec: yeah but it saves $10 per engine and makes us even more money per failure *fires engineer*
@Matt_Duke
@Matt_Duke 4 ай бұрын
Well you see it's actually great that the car will fail quickly and the repair bill is gonna be astronomical, cause that will push suckers (us) to buy more cars
@piccalillipit9211
@piccalillipit9211 4 ай бұрын
THAT exec has a bright future at Boeing...!!!
@jmbpinto73
@jmbpinto73 4 ай бұрын
@@piccalillipit9211 unfortunately, that became the rule across all industries.
@johnbaker1256
@johnbaker1256 4 ай бұрын
​@@Matt_Duke more cars from another manufacturer.
@Dave5843-d9m
@Dave5843-d9m 4 ай бұрын
Its known as a “career limiting question”
@PoorWays
@PoorWays Ай бұрын
Thanks for venting, I could feel my own frustrations purging during your video. Hopefully with videos like this we can create change!
@olegpisarenkov4908
@olegpisarenkov4908 4 ай бұрын
I never understand exactly what I like the most in this channel... Now I realized - it is the philosophical background! "Humanity uses technologies to make problems instead of solving problems..." - well spotted!
@ArifGhostwriter
@ArifGhostwriter 4 ай бұрын
Yes! And once - I even caught him saying 'this civilisation...' - indicating that he is either into or at least acknowledges that realm of interest where we do not believe that we are the first of our kind (advanced humans) on Earth.
@michaelwall8514
@michaelwall8514 4 ай бұрын
I agree with the statement, minus "Humanity".. Phoebus Cartel (for ref. For validity for reasoning) My claim; It's not WE, The People (not just of The United States Of America, of Humanity who I wholeheartedly believe SHOULD be sovereign nation States, respectively) solve problems the "ruling class" of inbred freakshow satanic willfully infested demonspawns who are greedy, believing their bs justifications for suppressing technological advances that would allow the worldwide infusion of peace through readily available energy systems and localized food sourcing... Who lie and claim overpopulation is a thing. Who really do think they're the apex humans "culling the herd as wolves", while they're nothing more than half wee tawdead crazed cowardly fallacious bullies and thugs... The more educated and "advanced" a culture of humanity, the more leveled off and not explosively populating we are. We absolutely can sustain our populations and not "destroy" earth. Climate changes 4 times a year!! CO2 feeds plant life which feeds us oxygen... It's all a lie to get us to believe we HAVE to depopulate per "club of rome" Georgia Guidstone 500,000,000 goal of reduction of species... Do prove me wrong. Please!! Much Love from North Dakota, friend, God bless, good hunting, and always, Godspeed!! Sincerely.
@maciejglinski6564
@maciejglinski6564 4 ай бұрын
im 14 and this is deep
@EFM_95
@EFM_95 4 ай бұрын
Its so depressing
@spannerman2887
@spannerman2887 4 ай бұрын
I work in an automotive component supply company, the illusion that parts are tested prior to launch is a hark back to olden times. There’s a computer based modelling of lifetime stresses and then the bean counters force a launch and everybody crosses their fingers for the best. I’ve even seen defective product shipped before a solution was found to avoid late delivery penalties. The Japanese are the only ones with tight standards hence why I only drive Japanese cars.
@icarossavvides2641
@icarossavvides2641 4 ай бұрын
I've worked in the automotive industry and you're correct, everything and that IS everything is driven by profit! I've been in meetings where a known problem is being discussed and the conclusion has been to leave it alone, fight any warranty claims and, if compensation is paid out it's still cheaper than a production line change.
@mr.g167
@mr.g167 3 ай бұрын
WOW Im somehow not that suprised, but still WOW
@aszym_triblant6660
@aszym_triblant6660 3 ай бұрын
@@mr.g167 Ford decided that it's cheaper to pay potenantial insurance compensation for people's deaths in car accidents than reshape their fuel tank so that there was no risk of explosion after being hit. Just google Ford Pinto & "enjoy".
@markrowland1366
@markrowland1366 3 ай бұрын
EV motors save money by having no timing. Cheaper still.
@devejo
@devejo 3 ай бұрын
Not everything is driven by profit... some of it is driven by pure stupidity, and most of it by politics wrapped in so called regulation and green initiative that is all but not green
@C_R_O_M________
@C_R_O_M________ 3 ай бұрын
@@markrowland1366 Yeah! Then the batteries bump a rock and you have to scrap them because the warning button popped off (warning that the battery might have swelled). Try searching for a clip that shows a KIA Ioniq in Canada being charged $60.000 for a new battery for just bumping a rock with the undercarriage! A very small rock, I might add.
@andrewmasto716
@andrewmasto716 4 ай бұрын
I owned an engine machine shop in California - lots of BMWs. I love them! Made a TON of money on BMW. When the belt or chain fails on a normal engine, the valves hit the piston (some "non-interference" engines don't, but most do), the valve is bent and the valve guides are ruined. So you cut out the valves , remove and replace the guides, hone them to fit do the other normal machine work ( machine the valve seats that are serviceable, replace seats that were damaged, deck the head, etc) and then it's good as new. With a BMW, the piston hits the valve and it breaks the overhead cam saddles right out of the head castings! We had tooling (custom designed and made) that allowed us to weld up the heads to form new saddles, which we would then re-machine. It was still cheaper for the Customer than buying a new head from BMW, and our head was stronger. The Customer gets back on the road with a lower cost, and I make money. It was so lucrative that I kept various BMW heads rebuilt and ready to go on the shelf. There was always demand! The workmanship from BMW was beautiful... but the engineering wasn't.
@supergeekjay
@supergeekjay 4 ай бұрын
Just the same with BMW and VW turbos where if the wastegate fails, the whole turbo has to be replaced. German overengineered junk at its finest!
@Euro316
@Euro316 4 ай бұрын
@@supergeekjay That is not true at all clown. The Wastegate is removable with 2 bolts. You can replace the actuator alone without replacing the entire turbocharger on any turbo made from BMW or VW. The only person who would tell you otherwise is a shop attempting to scam you. The wastegate/actuator is only $200. People like you need to never touch a wrench again.
@Euro316
@Euro316 4 ай бұрын
Lexus also have interference engines. If the belt/chain snaps, the valves hit the pistons and destroy the entire engine. 80% of engines made by ALL manufacturers will do this and are interference. Where the hell is your shop? Facebook Marketplace? Jesus Christ. This is not a BMW only issue. It is called Interference vs. Non-Interference.
@Tony-q4f3t
@Tony-q4f3t 4 ай бұрын
BMW means "Bring More Wallets"-- for repairs Or--"Break My Wallet"
@hermanbinngavionohermanbin8371
@hermanbinngavionohermanbin8371 4 ай бұрын
Gone are the days where BMW are brick solid and can cover a million Mile without much fuss..nowadays it is all just that :$how off $how off and more of it
@JacopoT
@JacopoT 27 күн бұрын
The jump from wet timing belts to disillusion towards humanity had me. I adore your videos and love earing you! Happy holidays!
@einoware436
@einoware436 3 ай бұрын
It is hilarious how Ford now makes 1.0L Ecoboost with a timing chain but it still has a wet rubber belt for the oil pump.
@TheeGlocktopus
@TheeGlocktopus 3 ай бұрын
"Ford now makes" - you meant to say "Ford is required under threat of law." Ford would rather not make a 1.0L ecoboost. They have to because of draconian unrealistic governmental regulations and laws which require automakers to squeeze 1000mpg out of their engines on average because "saving the earth" or something while their campaigns are funded by green corporations and they personally have investments in electric car companies.
@Jake-yt8ss
@Jake-yt8ss 3 ай бұрын
@@ambitiouspurr its almost like they want to sell more of these replacement belts
@garybeecroft4565
@garybeecroft4565 3 ай бұрын
The Ford "Fox" 1.0 3 cylinder engine was introduced with a wet belt which worked without problems for many years. However, Ford wanted to introduce a new version of the engine, I think with cylinder deactivation. This put more load on the cam drive. The belt supplier was unable to develop an uprated belt within Ford's timetable so chain was used on the new version. Wet belt oil pump drives are more common than wet belt cam drives.
@garybeecroft4565
@garybeecroft4565 3 ай бұрын
@@ambitiouspurr Gears are expensive. I'm not sure if they are used outside of pure race engines.
@garybeecroft4565
@garybeecroft4565 3 ай бұрын
@@ambitiouspurr I dispute the information presented in this video. If I see some data proving that wet belts are prone to failure I'll change my view. Tons of blown engines are a myth. Many people are biased against belt drives - particularly in North America - a place where many car owners still think a pushrod engine is a good idea.
@Bravolvi
@Bravolvi 4 ай бұрын
I'm from Brazil, Yes we have middle age problems AND wet belts. I always recommend people to ask before purchasing a new car, if it has wet belt don't go any further. But most of people just choose cars by their design and comfort items
@anrit5972
@anrit5972 4 ай бұрын
You hit the nail on the head, if potential car buyers did any research at all everyone would be driving around in 20 year old Toyota Corollas.
@101jtag
@101jtag 4 ай бұрын
I am guilty myself. I was happy to buy a newly designed engine w the last car, i was proud to have checked. But besides that i did not dig any deeper. One would think people could compare more easily these days, but where can i find all that detailed info in 1 spot. Or is the answer to everything Honda or Toyota. ?
@bravo_cj
@bravo_cj 4 ай бұрын
@@anrit5972well that’s literally my family rn 😂😂😂
@Kaizzer
@Kaizzer 4 ай бұрын
Add in poorly made electronics and buggy software, and you have it all!
@willyck948
@willyck948 4 ай бұрын
I bought a diesel with a timing belt because it was easier to maintain than a v6 with chains that would be an engine out repair. Better fuel mileage is nice but goes to higher maintenance cost. Love the exhaust brake though.
@SmileyTom666
@SmileyTom666 4 ай бұрын
As an ex-ford tech, we replaced quite a few transit custom engines due to wet belt failure at around 180k kms, pretty consistently. They would just rip teeth off the belt.
@neilasd3043
@neilasd3043 4 ай бұрын
Lasted longer than dry belts..
@RustyCanadien
@RustyCanadien 4 ай бұрын
Ford: Built Tough 😤🥴
@CheapBastard1988
@CheapBastard1988 4 ай бұрын
​@neilasd3043 Did it really? The last car we had with a dry belt had it replaced at 160KKM as preventive maintenance. It was still in good condition. Not to mention that the job is a lot less labour intensive and therefore cheaper.
@DMSparky
@DMSparky 4 ай бұрын
Well as long as it’s out of warranty then ford is OK with that. They get to sell a van and a spare engine!
@LA_Commander
@LA_Commander 4 ай бұрын
Maybe that's why the owner should have replaced it at 120k kilometers
@leonidsverdlov9373
@leonidsverdlov9373 11 күн бұрын
THANK YOU!!!!! Finally, I found a video where someone talks about this! I have been telling my mates for over a decade now to buy only chain timed cars for this specific reason. Would've been nice to add that the fact that these same engines are not made as non-interference engines is a crime in itself. But overall very valid opinion. Subscribed.
@Hydrogenblonde
@Hydrogenblonde 4 ай бұрын
That one percent fuel saving would go straight out the window as soon as the engine goes into rich mode because of engine knock. So Infact there is no saving at all, just more expense. I must say this channel is one of the best, if not the best automotive channel on KZbin. Great work.
@LawpickingLocksmith
@LawpickingLocksmith 4 ай бұрын
Same with the EGR lie! Reducing NOX with feeding the engine junk meant less of a percentage of nox at a higher fuel consumption. Burn more fuel = more profit for the industry with total nox actually gone up!
@Fuzzybeanerizer
@Fuzzybeanerizer 4 ай бұрын
But the knock is not actually caused by the wet belt, is it? Not seeing the logic here.
@KrazeeCain
@KrazeeCain 4 ай бұрын
It's probably BS too, there's NO chance those engines save a whole %1. There's barely any friction between the belt and gears to begin with...
@jonathanmillar
@jonathanmillar 4 ай бұрын
Certainly the Ford 1l ecoboosts have long been known to get nowhere near their cited fuel economy figures and I would not be remotely surprised if that's because they end up running rich because of the normal driving conditions they find themselves in
@niyablake
@niyablake 4 ай бұрын
Your mistake is thinking that 1% savings is to help the consumer. It's for regulations like CAFE
@hakjobtm7472
@hakjobtm7472 4 ай бұрын
The enshittification. It's bad, they know it's bad, they know we know it's bad, but they'll keep making things worse because they 'know better.'
@hhjhj393
@hhjhj393 4 ай бұрын
Nah they just know they have us by the balls. They will do whatever they want, laugh at us, then take our money. We are clowns for their amusement. We are just cattle to them.
@LarsaXL
@LarsaXL 4 ай бұрын
Middle managers will kill us all.
@OffGridInvestor
@OffGridInvestor 4 ай бұрын
Or because it theoretically has less emissions.
@katyfox2749
@katyfox2749 4 ай бұрын
Actully ....THEY DON'T CARE !!! It's all about the BOTTOM LINE ! ! !
@hakjobtm7472
@hakjobtm7472 4 ай бұрын
@OffGridInvestor i fail to see how dipping rubber in oil meaningfully decreases emissions. Less friction, maybe, but maybe instead of putting a time bomb in every one of your fucking engines you figure something else out? Not like there aren't other options, this one is just the cheapest and easiest. Plus more broken engines means more time bombs sold.
@RobertMcGahan-r1h
@RobertMcGahan-r1h 4 ай бұрын
The engine in my 1943 Farmall tractor has timing gears and has been running reliably for 81 years. Yeah, maybe could use a ring job, but still basically bulletproof.
@wullie3xv923
@wullie3xv923 4 ай бұрын
Several Honda motorcycle models were having reliability issues in the late 70's / early 80's with cam chains (& tensioners/guides) so, probably in desperation as their reputation was taking a hit, introduced gear driven cam shafts on their VFR400 & 750 V-fours & CBR 400 in-line 4 cyl's. Reliability & longevity issues were solved.
@jugears1081
@jugears1081 3 ай бұрын
I HATE rubber timing belts
@gillesgirard7812
@gillesgirard7812 3 ай бұрын
I agree but GM managed to mess up this with a 2.5 liter in 1980s with one of the gear made of plastic.
@joebaker4116
@joebaker4116 3 ай бұрын
@@wullie3xv923 Yes! this exactly. Sure they're heavier and more expensive and noisier, but I love the gear whine on my VFR, sounds like a little supercharger! aaaaand I never need to replace a tensioner or chain. seen examples with a 150K on them and the valve clearances are still in spec. Fantastic machines.
@buzzwaldron6195
@buzzwaldron6195 3 ай бұрын
@@gillesgirard7812 - ALL the automakers went to the nylon covered timing gears/sprockets in 1960s... supposedly for noise... maybe for known shorter life... but the low cost replacements can be all metal... however, my '77 and '85 Iron Dukes still have their nylon gears...
@windtiger004
@windtiger004 24 күн бұрын
i worked in a Hyundai agency. We had a recall on the new 2.0 Diesel engines after less than a year. they installed tiny rubber wet belt to power the oil pump. These belts were dry and stiff after less than 50k km.
@NelsonKNelson
@NelsonKNelson 4 ай бұрын
"I'm a fan of objectivity and rationality." A-effing-men, brother, speak it! This is the best-explained, best-reasoned takedown of the industry's painfully obvious wet belt scam. Absolutely beautiful.
@flinch622
@flinch622 4 ай бұрын
They did it to flamboozle regulators: the 1% savings was all about milage gains [real or imagined]. The fact it costs consumers 1000x to maintain vs what gets saved at the pump? Not a concern of CAFE standards, or the politicians pretending they know anything about engineering or economics.
@richardstarkey71
@richardstarkey71 4 ай бұрын
The lawsuits say it all... Sealants is losing their $#!^.... and that means money in the long run...
@NunyaBusiness...
@NunyaBusiness... 4 ай бұрын
It's not a scam for profit. It's to satisfy the insane CAFE regs that are pushed by idiots that think a good EPA rating is all that matters. Look at what they've done to diesels. Pre EGR and DEF diesels were known for going a million miles. Now that's a pipe dream. They've been made so "clean" that you have to replace them or a number of components in less than a quarter of that service life, and producing a new vehicle is a way bigger generator of pollution than running the vehicle. It's a scam alright, but the green in it isn't about money it's about the morons thinking that EVs, solar, and wind are going to save us. It's all shortsighted stupidity.
@jugears1081
@jugears1081 3 ай бұрын
I HATE rubber timing belts
@NelsonKNelson
@NelsonKNelson 3 ай бұрын
@@jugears1081 Frankly, I prefer (a) gear-driven cam(s) but that's a lot more easily done on one of my Harleys than on an auto engine. 😀
@StryderFi
@StryderFi 4 ай бұрын
Love your content, man. I've been watching for years, and I am so fucking glad that you haven't quit despite not getting nearly as much attention from the algorithm as you deserve. As car enthusiast and somebody who intends to attend university for mechanical engineering, this content being so unique (I've never even heard of a lot of these topics you bring up) and so easily digestible will not have only been a key role in making me knowledgeable, but also will have been a major reason for me even beginning in the first place. This content is consistently interesting, thought-provoking, and explained in a way that made young me able to understand. Without this channel, there would be A LOT less content to fuel my curiosity and inform me. Who knows if I'd even care for engineering without you. For that, I am so grateful. And, when I finally get some money once I'm old enough to get a job, I fully intend to support this channel and your work for all of the amazing things you've done for me. Good luck in all your ventures, D4A, and thank you for everything.
@d4a
@d4a 4 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for that comment
@StryderFi
@StryderFi 4 ай бұрын
@@d4a Of course! Have a good day/night, dude. (No clue about your timezone lol)
@mnxs
@mnxs 4 ай бұрын
​@@StryderFiHe's GMT+1 or +2 (somewhere in central/eastern Europe)
@stevenkelby2169
@stevenkelby2169 4 ай бұрын
☝️ He said what we're all thinking. ☺
@StryderFi
@StryderFi 4 ай бұрын
@@mnxs Ah, then it would be "day". Thank you!
@jonathonspears7736
@jonathonspears7736 4 ай бұрын
I work in the auto industry and can 100% tell you, this sort of thing is absolutely intentional. If they could get away with it, they would make them even worse so they could make money. As long as it survives the warranty duration, that is all they care about. Anything after that is profit.
@Bitterrootbackroads
@Bitterrootbackroads 4 ай бұрын
I worked in the engine rebuilding trade in the 70s. Many teardowns revealed engines in serviceable condition except for the failure of the iron camshaft timing gear with molded plastic / nylon teeth around the perimeter.. I guess the idea was to make engine quieter, and it was great until the teeth crumbled.
@richardmillhousenixon
@richardmillhousenixon 4 ай бұрын
Having worked with engineers, this is most likely gross incompetence rather than malice. The engineers know it's a bad idea, but the higher ups think they know better than the engineers, and guess who signs the paychecks. It's not designed to force you to have to repair it, it's just stupidity running the engineering department rather than actual engineers.
@dr.a.w
@dr.a.w 4 ай бұрын
@@Bitterrootbackroads That happened to my 1976 Ford Torino (351 Windsor). IIRC the camshaft timing gear was aluminum with the nylon teeth. Fortunately, it jumped timing in my driveway and fixing it involved merely replacing the timing set with all-metal gears, lining up the marks, and putting it back together. That engine ran for many more miles...
@jgn593
@jgn593 4 ай бұрын
​@@richardmillhousenixonand here is the explanation why Boeing is so bad at the moment. Yes you need to make sure you can make money. But you also need to make sure that the product you make is not a death trap.
@phiksit
@phiksit 4 ай бұрын
Next stop... plastic timing chains, maybe from VW. Oh how they love plastic engine parts.
@michealculleton1159
@michealculleton1159 2 ай бұрын
Retired mechanic the Ford 18d engine kept me employed for 10 years refurbishing cylinder heads broken by snapped tim8ng belts❤😂
@markleggett3944
@markleggett3944 Ай бұрын
Ford realized that many people did not want to spend hundreds of dollars on maintenance to replace a timing belt and just kept driving until it was too late. Also, belts are cheaper to produce and are a source of revenue for service departments, as you say.
@Sloth-j1m
@Sloth-j1m 4 ай бұрын
I'm an automotive technician and I was working on a 2019 Ford ecotec it came in with low oil pressure. I found that belt material from the belt driven oil pump Had plugged the oil pickup tube. The vehicle only had 60 thousand miles
@markleggett3944
@markleggett3944 Ай бұрын
Yep. I guess they fail as a dedicated oil pump belt just as fast as the timing belts. Even if the debris is removed and the belt is replaced, there is likely damage that will reduce engine life. Of course, at that point the vehicle is out of warranty and it's either a new engine or a new car.
@elektro3000
@elektro3000 4 ай бұрын
I'm am an automotive metallurgical engineer and a lot of my work engine R&D including both the specification side and the wear and failure analysis side. I have never witnessed a conversation that involved intentionally reducing the service life or reliability of any engine component, but I have been part of many conversations where my push (or the powertrain engineers' push) for more durable or reliable components got shot down on cost limitations. Management ALWAYS asks for more reliable engines, but they often set cost as a higher priority, and they almost always set fuel efficiency and emissions as the top priorities. Yes, the customer wants to pay for a reliable engine, but governments are forcing us to shave every tenth of a percent on both fuel efficiency and emissions. Automakers get fined hundreds of millions of dollars for selling customers the powerful, reliable engines they want instead of the 1% cleaner, 1% more efficient engines that sacrifice everything the customers want.
@durragas4671
@durragas4671 4 ай бұрын
I don't believe higher management would ever disseminate or leave any proof that they would request engineers build less reliable engines. So of course they would use other tactics to reach the same result, such as reducing costs. So it makes sense you wouldn't hear about it
@Axel_Andersen
@Axel_Andersen 4 ай бұрын
@@durragas4671 I've been involved in conversations that started with "what is the cheapest plastic we can make this part of" when nobody at that point in the design process knew what were the requirements for that part or if indeed plastic was suitable at all for that specific application.
@hamid.s.zolfagari
@hamid.s.zolfagari 4 ай бұрын
governments are evil now days
@stuglenn1112
@stuglenn1112 4 ай бұрын
I agree that the government is more responsible (rules, regulation and fines) for this than the automakers. Still the companies bean counters are to blame also.
@ronaldderooij1774
@ronaldderooij1774 4 ай бұрын
That's because governments wanted the internal combustion engine gone, or severely limited decades ago. It all began with (over here) ridiculously high taxes on fuels. And the car manufacturers did not want to comply and kept on going with old tech (combustion engines). That had to clash at some point, and the consumer is the one paying the bill.
@Fazers-On-Stun
@Fazers-On-Stun 4 ай бұрын
Even with all the data proving that wet belts are a bad idea, yet car manufacturers continued to use it, in my mind is further proof that most cars nowadays are only being built to outlast the warranty period. The warranty period might as well be the guaranteed 'lifetime of the engine/car' at this point.
@kristoffer3000
@kristoffer3000 4 ай бұрын
Capitalism goes brrr
@flashnmb1
@flashnmb1 4 ай бұрын
GM could learn from this video evidence; guess their main goal is profit when their 1.3 liter 3 cylinder fail @ end of warranty, crush car & replace.
@Creepus_Explodus
@Creepus_Explodus 4 ай бұрын
That's how warranties work in every industry. Any failure during the warranty period is considered _premature failure,_ but if it dies one day after the warranty period it is _past its expected lifespan._ The manufacturer doesn't want the product to fail under warranty because then they pay for it out of pocket, but they don't want it to last much longer than the warranty either because well... Any failure after the warranty period is _past its expected lifespan_ so why make something that works _too well_
@EbenBransome
@EbenBransome 4 ай бұрын
@@Creepus_Explodus This is actually wrong. Many cars are leased out to corporations and the leasing company wants good residuals, which means that they must not be perceived as being unreliable when sold second hand. Modern cars are expected to be reliable for 6 years, i.e. twice the typical lease. Over here Mercedes dealers will buy cars under 6 years old. Go over...well, I know someone who foolishly bought an Audi TT when she retired intending to keep it. After 6 years it started to get expensive and she then found out what the value was. No more Audis, the trade in didn't cover a used Polo.
@SBT300
@SBT300 4 ай бұрын
​@@kristoffer3000Yeah, the cars made in socialistic systems were so much better, right?
@salvor1
@salvor1 24 күн бұрын
many would say "oh, such negativity". I love it. I hope they all own these engines. "I'm a fan of objectivity and rationality" better words were never spoken. You got me, I'm subscribing.
@Heretic306
@Heretic306 4 ай бұрын
This is amazing timing, a week ago I was showing my best friend a wet belt in a Ford EcoBoost. He thought it was insane as well. The thing is a timing chain in an engine with regular oil changes can often outlast the car. I have an GMC Atlas 4.2 and it has over 330,000km on the original timing chain and I'm still driving it, let's see your wet belt do that. 🙄
@k4rli
@k4rli 2 ай бұрын
muricans using km. truly a nice surprise. god bless
@anthonymoore4335
@anthonymoore4335 4 ай бұрын
We had a Ford Ecosport fail the wet belt at 19,000 miles. Fully Dealer serviced and under warranty. Service manager accidently slipped and said, "Oh, we have had a few of these this year"! We shopped for another vehicle without a wet belt!
@marty3469
@marty3469 3 ай бұрын
We don't see many on the roads much now
@Yossarian-uj9dh
@Yossarian-uj9dh 3 ай бұрын
... and it was only January 1st 😉
@aurorayoru5333
@aurorayoru5333 3 ай бұрын
I watched a teardown of the Eco boost engine with the rubber timing belt it was prematurely cracked with rubber particles in the pick up tube which caused the engine to fail the belt looked like an old timing belt you would find in a 06 Honda Accord that hasn’t been changed since new
@luc-alaindehaes3512
@luc-alaindehaes3512 3 ай бұрын
I have a Ford custom 185 pk now 250.000 km Replaced the first belt at 180.000 km oil change every 15 max 20.000 km
@robovac3557
@robovac3557 3 ай бұрын
It boggles my mind people would spend 10s of thousands on a car when 30 sec Internet search would tell them of the dangers. Fools and their money...
@indyrock8148
@indyrock8148 4 ай бұрын
I never thought that engines with timing chains were noisy. Never.
@roberts1677
@roberts1677 4 ай бұрын
I can't recall hearing the timing chain on any engine, ever. Even my dad's Cadillacs, which were overall very quiet, had enough other noises going on that you couldn't hear the timing chain.
@WayToManyAssassins
@WayToManyAssassins 4 ай бұрын
usually the injectors are noiser than the engine itself.
@jasonmant
@jasonmant 4 ай бұрын
Go buy a VW with a chain 😂😂
@YTChiefCritic
@YTChiefCritic 4 ай бұрын
It's the lie the manufacturers tell you so you think it's a benefit.
@njipods
@njipods 4 ай бұрын
they likely where in the 60s. now the chains are guided by plastic the whole way so no room left for clacking
@merkfritz
@merkfritz 8 күн бұрын
Totally agree! Good exposure for FORD!
@UlfDrulf
@UlfDrulf 4 ай бұрын
A Ford dealer here in Germany quoted me 2850€ (roughly 3000 $) for a Timingbelt change on my 1.0 Ecoboost. I have 10 years of fixing all sorts of vehicles under my belt, but theres just no way i could do that job on the Parking lot of my appartment. You need an entire Briefcase of special tools AND pull appart half of the Engine (best would be to just rip the engine out at that point), for a job the takes 1 1/2 hours on a old VW/ Opel/ French car. (2 hours if knock one back with the bois while i`m at it) Not talking about the gigantic mess of oil or the "shit, now i need this specific part from the dealer i forgot to buy/ broke"- moment. Hell, doing a CLUTCH-job on most cars is easier and faster then this shit.
@Wasmachineman
@Wasmachineman 4 ай бұрын
€3k to replace the belt? Scam.
@richardconway6425
@richardconway6425 4 ай бұрын
That quote is ridiculous. Presumably that's an official Ford dealer? I drive Fords for a very good reason, and that's because they are good value for money, reliable, and cheap to service and fix. But your quote totally undermines that concept of value for money for the customer. Surely, you could get a better quote than that if you go to a good franchise dealer, or even a specialist mechanic shop with a good reputation? One could buy an entire second hand car with that kind of money.
@pontiacg445
@pontiacg445 4 ай бұрын
@@richardconway6425 You must drive 40 year old fords or something, everything they've made since has been utter garbage.
@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391
@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391 4 ай бұрын
I've seen a picture of a Ford engine that has the oil pump driven by a wet belt, that goes around the crank, so you'd need to remove the crank to replace the belt, a belt that is emersed in viscous oil, wedging itself between the pulley and belt. Mental.
@lifuranph.d.9440
@lifuranph.d.9440 4 ай бұрын
@@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391 The engineer will go to Hades...along with who approved the design.
@Fabiek3
@Fabiek3 4 ай бұрын
Please somebody give this Man a raise!
@exothermal.sprocket
@exothermal.sprocket 4 ай бұрын
Please can we quantify good information on the basis of something other than money?
@Fabiek3
@Fabiek3 4 ай бұрын
@@exothermal.sprocket beer can?
@exothermal.sprocket
@exothermal.sprocket 4 ай бұрын
@@Fabiek3 Having worked half my life in a lot of difference places, I can say, raises are seldom given to anyone who's doing exceptional jobs.
@Fabiek3
@Fabiek3 4 ай бұрын
@@exothermal.sprocket money is some sort of measuring tape for any job, so... If You wan't to live in world without money i don't know if it's even possible this day. Cheers mate!
@Chris-nn3vu
@Chris-nn3vu 4 ай бұрын
​@@exothermal.sprocketSo do you, or do you not care about money?
@DriesVanBeveren
@DriesVanBeveren 3 ай бұрын
I'm an automotive teacher and watch all of you're great video's and show them weekly to my students (+-50 ish). Keep it up, we love your content ❤
@weuek
@weuek 2 ай бұрын
You're a teacher and you spell "you're great video's" like that? OMG!
@mikep490
@mikep490 27 күн бұрын
Thank you for another wonderful explanation. In the last couple decades I've heard it said that cars need a way to inspect the oil pickup screen, possibly by allowing the oil pan to be removed or having an access plate in the pan. After hearing your video, I can see the benefit of that. I have not seen that belt expansion measure tool before... another useful item. Of course neither of these would be a big help as, by 100K miles, cars are less likely to be properly maintained.
@mrlover4310
@mrlover4310 4 ай бұрын
This is like diesel Gate. This is Timing belt Gate.
@gregorymalchuk272
@gregorymalchuk272 4 ай бұрын
It's GovernmentGate. This is the end result of the government trying to centrally plan energy consumption like the Soviet state. And all the stupid people are supposed to get mad at the manufacturer rather than the guilty party, the govt.
@thedopplereffect00
@thedopplereffect00 4 ай бұрын
Except diesel gate had nothing to do with reliability
@mrlover4310
@mrlover4310 4 ай бұрын
@@thedopplereffect00 correct but it was a scandal was it not? And this is a scandal engineers new this belt will destroy the engine so it is timing belt Gate in my opinion.
@elriv76
@elriv76 4 ай бұрын
Reason for Disel Gate was different, why its pop up its another story :)
@mrlover4310
@mrlover4310 4 ай бұрын
@@elriv76 diesel gate is not a story it's a fact so is Watergate.
@nothing.mp3
@nothing.mp3 4 ай бұрын
Honda had a change of heart during the last few model years of the civic. The K20C2 engine used in the civic sedan and hatch is naturally aspirated, port injected, uses a timing chain, and is offered with a 6-speed manual. Doesn't make much power but it's almost bulletproof
@averyalexander2303
@averyalexander2303 4 ай бұрын
In 2024, creating an engine with similar functionality to the original K series they released 24 years ago is only impressive because everyone else is making such overly complicated disposable junk nowadays.
@davemccage7918
@davemccage7918 4 ай бұрын
You silly belt vs chain people! We all know that timing GEARS are king!
@theocmaniak
@theocmaniak 4 ай бұрын
@@averyalexander2303 In 2024 using such engine is blatant stupidity, since it offeres worse performance, worse fuel efficiency and worse noise, vibrations and harshness than competition. It MIGHT be more reliable for customers in used car segment, however it offeres 0 (zero) advantages for the customers that... actually buy these cars.
@imnotusingmyrealname4566
@imnotusingmyrealname4566 4 ай бұрын
Too bad it's gone now. Shitty 1.5 turbo only. The naturally aspirated engine from the Fit with a turbo slapped onto it and only direct injection.
@imnotusingmyrealname4566
@imnotusingmyrealname4566 4 ай бұрын
​@@theocmaniakThis thinking is exactly how we got disposable unreliable cars.
@Danger_mouse
@Danger_mouse 4 ай бұрын
D4A, another great video my friend! I'm a motor mechanic, an old motor mechanic. These kinds of things pop up from time to time and have done over the years. What HAS changed, is that the manufacturers don't care like they used to. They used to care that they had released an inferior product and would work hard to make the replacement better. An example on a personal note, I owned a Spanish built D40 Nissan Navara 2.5 diesel. They became renowned for timing chain failures in the Renault engine after using fine pitch chains and plastic guides to reduce engine noise. (Mine was replaced by Nissan as a 'good will' warranty claim at 113,000km). I now own a D23 Navara and it says in the owners handbook, timing chain replacement due at 300,000km. If that chain fails before then, Nissan will need to be very clear why it has, and why I should be responsible for replacing it.
@markam306
@markam306 4 ай бұрын
I agree that the attitude of manufactures have gone downhill to our detriment. It appears their strategy has changed to accommodate this: they are selling on features more and more, capitalizing on the current popularity of high tec electronic gadgets. Their advertising pushes all the convenience features indoctrinating the younger generations that they deserve to be pampered by their vehicle. Does anyone repair their own vehicle anymore ??? The situation is made worse by the ridiculous extent fuel mileage regulatory requirements have pushed. Regulations are so far past the point of diminishing returns the life cycle cost of hardware is probably greater than the fuel cost improvement. The auto manufacturers actually like this, as it makes the service lifetime shorter for all manufactures !
@markleggett3944
@markleggett3944 Ай бұрын
The most reliable system is a gear drive, but those are noisier, create more frictional loses, are more expensive, etc. Modern engines are not suited or set up to use this system, so we get one that hopefully will get through the warranty period.
@Danger_mouse
@Danger_mouse Ай бұрын
@@markleggett3944 The most reliable system is one that's engineered properly. It doesn't matter if it's a chain, a belt or gears, if it the engineering is underdone, then you'll have failures. Gear drives can fail, Holden in Australia used a fibre gear on the cam of their old push rod engines to make it quieter... It was certainly quiet when the teeth stripped off on the highway and the engine stopped. 🙂
@markleggett3944
@markleggett3944 Ай бұрын
@@Danger_mouse Years ago, Pontiac used nylon and metal timing gears to lessen weight and noise and those failed quite often as well. Too many times management/accounting people override the engineers and then we get substandard designs and parts. Government mandates are also a major reason we keep seeing this type of problem.
@gamerulvultur583
@gamerulvultur583 2 ай бұрын
I've reached this video after I did a relatively random timing belt check on my 1.2 Puretech equipped Citroen C3 Aircross before a 200km trip and found that it had formed cracks. That belt is no older than about 50-60.000km in an engine that receives full synthetic oil on a relatively regular basis but that does see a lot of stop and go traffic. An absolutely terrible idea for any engine but especially for a city car. Thank you for making this video.
@video99couk
@video99couk 4 ай бұрын
12:50 Our Insignia gave us the "Stop Engine Immediately" message on a freezing cold morning start. It was the pump 'O' ring. We got it replaced straight away before damage could be done.
@uiopuiop3472
@uiopuiop3472 4 ай бұрын
thank god i did not buy an opel, i dont get how they could screw up an o-ring after this many years of knowledge
@jayasankabandara4792
@jayasankabandara4792 4 ай бұрын
You know; that is actually a Fiat engine, which they used on their (GM) cars!
@philkipnis740
@philkipnis740 4 ай бұрын
You're one of the very few owners to recognize the emergency convaid by that simple warning light. Most people would put time considerations ahead of the state of their vehicle...
@philkipnis740
@philkipnis740 4 ай бұрын
​@@jayasankabandara4792doesn't matter who design or built the engine. It was flawed from the start.
@TheMilenkata
@TheMilenkata 4 ай бұрын
Sell it,, don't waste time with that car. Not only the O-ring will fail, but also the oil pump and many more. Remove it till it still works, those are nightmare engine to rebuild after that and with big chance of failing again.
@Luke.Skywodka
@Luke.Skywodka 4 ай бұрын
My relatives had a Fiesta where the timing belt broke at 48,000km. Vehicle was 4 years old, maintenance only at the dealer. After a bit of back and forth it went under warranty, but they then sold the car and bought an older Toyota Yaris.
@TheBlackbrrd
@TheBlackbrrd 4 ай бұрын
I have a 2002 toyota yaris. The engine runs fine.
@glennmerriman8382
@glennmerriman8382 4 ай бұрын
I have a 2004 Toyota Echo. 380,000km. Still running good. No timing chain noise.
@Luke.Skywodka
@Luke.Skywodka 4 ай бұрын
@@glennmerriman8382 Good to know, ty!
@ickebins6948
@ickebins6948 4 ай бұрын
@@TheBlackbrrd I have a 2004 Fiesta and it works great... What's your point?
@SKYWURX
@SKYWURX 4 ай бұрын
​@@ickebins6948Your 2004 model is a pre wet-belt engine so you won't have the issues discussed in this video or comment.
@AliveInTheLab
@AliveInTheLab 4 ай бұрын
This channel's explanations of complex things are so ridiculously good
@milanrsfc
@milanrsfc Күн бұрын
I have a 2011 Seat Leon 1.2 TSI 77kW with a timing chain. At 88.000km I changed the timing chain set just to be safe and service the car regularly with premium oil and parts. It now has 113.000km, no issues whatsoever even though I heard many negative opinions on this engine.
@RustOnWheels
@RustOnWheels 4 ай бұрын
If you want to avoid these kinds of problems, check out the front of the car. If there is a circle on it that contains four pie parts alternating between white and blue, slowly back away and run as fast as possible when you are out of sight.
@TassieLorenzo
@TassieLorenzo 4 ай бұрын
How about if there are four rings overlapping each other? 😃
@RustOnWheels
@RustOnWheels 4 ай бұрын
@@TassieLorenzo run four times as fast 😁 especially when there’s a V8 under the hood 🫣
@SirReginaldBlomfield1234
@SirReginaldBlomfield1234 4 ай бұрын
@RustOnWheels it's not a pie it's a stylised propeller running at speed. Doooooh...😒🙈
@SillyPuddy2012
@SillyPuddy2012 4 ай бұрын
If you see a three pointed star built within the last thirty years, do not be fooled.
@khalidacosta7133
@khalidacosta7133 4 ай бұрын
@@SirReginaldBlomfield1234 That's the problem... they made an aircraft that can't fly.
@georgegently7876
@georgegently7876 4 ай бұрын
Do not apologise for, or ever shy away from your comments towards the end of this video! I am certain that many people feel exactly the same and have had enough. You are absolutely right that too many times, people do not do the right thing. They do not do the human thing in the way they act towards others. Perversely though in the case of wet belts, they are actually being human by demonstrating the worst of human traits…. greed; personal benefit at the cost of everyone else. I am a mechanical engineer and the owner of a wet belt Ford Transit. Such conflict and 10,000km oil changes 😮
@7ismersenne
@7ismersenne 4 ай бұрын
Agreed. You are doing a very good job making the wet belt fiasco more widely known and holding the relevant car manufacturers to account.
@gdaytrees4728
@gdaytrees4728 4 ай бұрын
Here again, yet another proof that taking YHWH out of the public eye leads directly to Godless behaviors: greed, selfishness, evil. Get God back in your life and the lives of your family and friends
@lifuranph.d.9440
@lifuranph.d.9440 4 ай бұрын
@@gdaytrees4728 It was just the case before...because.
@marty3469
@marty3469 3 ай бұрын
This could be a big plot to push people to go electric, make shit petrol cars that don't last so people will go ev.
@Fireneedsair
@Fireneedsair 3 ай бұрын
@@gdaytrees4728 the religious peanut gallery speaks with its 2 cents🤣🤪🇺🇸
@Habergas
@Habergas 4 ай бұрын
Regulatory Powers sadly can't keep up with changes or updates in the industry, so sometimes it's the customer who need to force changes for the better, by voting with its wallet. But the regular consumer isn't qualified enough to overview things like this. That's the reason why unbiased reviewers and journalists like here on youtube are so important.
@beunhaas102
@beunhaas102 4 ай бұрын
In most cases consumers are just to damn lazy to get an overview, they will just buy any ugly crossover with ridiculously large wheels. I'm still baffled how people will buy a >30k€ car without searching google for 5 minutes, take the Peugeot PureTech engine for instance, they have been notorious for belt failure for the last 12 years yet people will buy it without any hesitation or personal research.
@Solwazi34
@Solwazi34 7 күн бұрын
My anxiety as a 1.0L Ford Fiesta Ecoboost has been crazy ever since this dropped
@poolen0123
@poolen0123 4 ай бұрын
Honda also decided to use wet timing belt in Honda City 1.0 turbo which is one of the best selling here in Thailand. Timing belt de-lamination has becoming commonly found problem in this model as it older. This problem costs a lots money from the users since the pieces of de-laminated belt usually clogged VTEC solenoid strainer or engine oil pump strainer which caused oil starvation problem and broke the engine. BTW, Thank you for good video!
@brannung
@brannung 4 ай бұрын
I think they also used this "technology" on the Honda Civic 1.0 Turbo sold in Europe
@stefanmargraf7878
@stefanmargraf7878 4 ай бұрын
But i would expect Honda should react better and repair all of them at no cost.
@mamboparami
@mamboparami 4 ай бұрын
was going to say this, it's also sold in EU and ofc with the sames issues. Engine code P10A2 for thoses interested.
@galaxyboots
@galaxyboots 4 ай бұрын
@@stefanmargraf7878 Yes if you pay for their expensive extended warranty. No otherwise. I had a month to go on my extended on a civic when mine destroyed itself for a 2nd time.
@kevinegal8586
@kevinegal8586 4 ай бұрын
I think they only used that belt in the 1.0T not in the diesel engine. The diesel had a chain.
@lindsaydempsey5683
@lindsaydempsey5683 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing this. I only found out that wet belts were a thing about a year ago, couldn't believe that anyone could think that this was a good idea. Personally I think that OEM's should be held accountable under consumer legislation and be required to offer a chain drive retrofit at cost and with free installation. To me the oil pump drives should always have the most durable and reliable drive technology of any drive within an engine, to choose a wet belt is guarantee of catastrophic engine failure at some point in the life of that engine, unless you do oil changes at 5000 km AND you are very lucky. MADNESS!
@CS-zn6pp
@CS-zn6pp 4 ай бұрын
We had a Vauxhall Grandland and it's was on it's 3rd belt in 46k miles. The first one began degrading and was blocking the oil system. We change that at 24k miles and had to flush the oil system. We replaced the 2nd belt at 43k miles with 19k miles on the belt and it had also began to degrade requiring another flush of the oil system. Our Vauxhall garage is now recommending changing them every 15k miles. We sold it asap...
@1man1guitarletsgo
@1man1guitarletsgo 4 ай бұрын
I'm currently researching which car to get when our Hyundai i30 needs replacing, and called into a Vauxhall garage yesterday, where there were several Grandlands and Crosslands. As far as I could tell, these huge vehicles all had 1.2l petrol engines, turbocharged, but tiny nonetheless. We definitely won't be buying anything with a wet belt, or a tiny engine.
@mjouwbuis
@mjouwbuis 4 ай бұрын
@@1man1guitarletsgo you could have a look at a Mazda 3. Not sure, but I think they still use downtuned larger displacement engines.
@1man1guitarletsgo
@1man1guitarletsgo 4 ай бұрын
@@mjouwbuis Thanks, will do.
@Arik-2103
@Arik-2103 4 ай бұрын
@@mjouwbuis yes, the Mazdas come with 2-2.5l n/a high compression engines, giving them similar performance and fuel economy to smaller turbocharged ones
@hank1556
@hank1556 4 ай бұрын
​@mjouwbuis I had a 2005 Mazda 3 with the 2.0 and 5 speed. That was such an excellent car. I took it on several high speed long distance trips and it didn't blink. And I mean 200+ miles averaging 90+ mph
@TheSwellrider
@TheSwellrider 28 күн бұрын
I love this guy. Straightforward. My go to guy if I need to understand how something mechanical works. Brilliant.
@xyz-yf2kr
@xyz-yf2kr 3 ай бұрын
When I first heard about a wet belt in an engine my immediate reaction was - what a stupid idea. Thanks for validating my reaction. Excellent analysis.
@xyz-yf2kr
@xyz-yf2kr 3 ай бұрын
Toyota used dry belts on non-interference engines such as the Camry. Belt breakage caused no engine damage.
@markleggett3944
@markleggett3944 Ай бұрын
90% of the public does not know or understand these things.
@PAD32
@PAD32 4 ай бұрын
I heard in the medias that those engines were having issues, and thought that it was probably badly maintained vehicules, or just a bunch of people with bad luck. It was very interesting to hear the actual technical explanation behind that.
@RogerM88
@RogerM88 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video. Many people owning these cars aren't aware of the wet belt peculiarities. PSA reverted to timing chains but kept the wet belt in the oil pump.
@myne00
@myne00 4 ай бұрын
Yeah, makes sense for non-critical and easily replaced items like oil pumps to save a few bucks
@looped7979
@looped7979 4 ай бұрын
WHAT !?
@looped7979
@looped7979 4 ай бұрын
Just looked it up, i cannot find any pictures of the gen3 engine with wet belts, only chains on the valve train and the oil pump.
@rubberduck4966
@rubberduck4966 4 ай бұрын
@@myne00 no as the particles from the belt clog the oil system anyways
@myne00
@myne00 4 ай бұрын
@@rubberduck4966 clearly sarcasm doesn't always hit its mark online
@DavePGumby
@DavePGumby 17 күн бұрын
Excellent informative video, thank you for making this. Our Peugeot 2008 (2014) 1.2 engine failed due to loss of oil pressure caused by the wet belt degrading just before 60K miles. Had to scrap the car as an engine replacement cost was more than the value of the car. Very, very disappointed in Peugeot. I wasn't aware of the other manufactures doing the same. I will never buy another wet belt vehicle.
@roelfkromhout
@roelfkromhout 4 ай бұрын
The process you describe at 10:40 is exactly what happened to a friend of mine who had purchased a very young Ford Focus estate 1 litre. It had less than 60.000 km on the clock when a blocked oil strainer left them stranded. The engine survived but the cost of cleaning up, replacing the belt was close to 2k, on a car they had paid close to 30k for a little over a year earlier….
@NathanaelKeller
@NathanaelKeller 4 ай бұрын
As someone who is working in the automotive industry, I can say with confidence that this is probably gross incompetence rather than malice. Our team is currently also doing thiings that we would have solved differently, but those that decide are not engineers. It is management and sales. They hear about a technology at a convention and force engineering to implement it against their will. Sometimes they sell it before we even heard about it. It was probably like that at Ford, it was certainly like that at VW, Opel.. after somone from sales heard the 1% fuel savings number.
@maskharat
@maskharat 4 ай бұрын
Same in software engineering. Some idiot promises and sells high heaven with 'Tec X', then they come to the software architects/programmers "So you need to do this, because I sold it and that is our most profitable deal in years."
@bassegoder
@bassegoder 4 ай бұрын
This is malice in my opinion
@therealfakecaptain7978
@therealfakecaptain7978 4 ай бұрын
Why not both ?
@firstlast---
@firstlast--- 4 ай бұрын
Wet belts last an extremely long time in the Ford 2.7 but you don't see anyone complaining about it 🤔
@londonnight937
@londonnight937 4 ай бұрын
What you are describing there is in my opinion malice by all accounts. Hearing the engineer say this is detrimental and doing it anyway sounds like malice.
@rogerking7258
@rogerking7258 4 ай бұрын
I think there is a significant chance that these manufacturers promoted their accountants and gave them the title of "engineer" instead.
@johnbaker1256
@johnbaker1256 4 ай бұрын
Financial engineer??
@masterkamen371
@masterkamen371 4 ай бұрын
Ford's engineers come from the accounting department. Italian and French engineers are just stupid. Ferrari's engines for example were designed by idiots. Every single part is terribly designed and put in awful places. You can't even access the crankshaft without taking the entire engine apart. I'd be ashamed to to sign my name on those projects if I was them.
@erkinalp
@erkinalp 4 ай бұрын
@@johnbaker1256 😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂😂😂
@xerfrex7869
@xerfrex7869 4 ай бұрын
@fladave99 "This growth can be attributed to sales of full and mild hybrids, which grew by 21% in Q2 2024 vs. Q2 2023. Hybrid sales growth was particularly apparent in France (40%) and Spain (27%). The hybrid market share in the EU top 5 now stands at 32%, meaning that almost one in three vehicles now sold in the region are hybrids."
@mbox314
@mbox314 4 ай бұрын
They just want to sell more cars and they are incentivised to do it because idiots keep buying these cars after companies crap on them.
@wolfie030
@wolfie030 22 күн бұрын
You are totally right. My girlfriend has a Citroen with the Puretech engine and as you guessed.... it failed at 137.000 km, leading to a catastrophic engine failure, which led to an engine swap worth around 6000 euros. Of course, paid by my girlfriend since the dealer organisation refused any guarantee because it was not proven she used the exact right grade oil. She actually did, but it was not provided by the official dealer but by a multi-brand service centre and the car had a clean service sheet.
@InsaneDeck
@InsaneDeck 4 ай бұрын
Our company had a fleet of vehicles from a rental company who managed the fleet, and most cars had engines with wet belts. There were numerous cases of engine failure with 60K km because of debris from the wear of the belt clogging the oil ducts, pumps and so on. To make it worse, the maintenance was performed by third party workshops (not the car brand workshops) selected by the rental company, and the oil approved by the rental company was not the correct specification as the car's manual...
@AndriusKamarauskas
@AndriusKamarauskas 4 ай бұрын
You left us on clifhanger, whats happened next?
@MiGujack3
@MiGujack3 4 ай бұрын
This sounds like 1.0 Ecoboost or PSA Puretech
@TheGuruStud
@TheGuruStud 4 ай бұрын
Oil type doesn't matter. That's just a Ford lie to attempt escaping fault.
@InsaneDeck
@InsaneDeck 4 ай бұрын
@@MiGujack3 It was a 1.5 3-cylinder from Ford. Overall a good engine, with good power and fuel economy, but with this terrible maintenance issue
@InsaneDeck
@InsaneDeck 4 ай бұрын
@@AndriusKamarauskas The rental company had to replace engines on some cars, but eventually due to several other problems with maintenance of that car model, the management at my company demanded an action to avoid lost time and ensure safety for the employees, then they anticipated the renewal of the contract to replace the fleet with another model (fortunately, the new car uses timing chain instead)
@pedrogoncalves9165
@pedrogoncalves9165 3 ай бұрын
I have a 1.0 civic turbo from 2020 that has an oil wet belt and it changes the oil every 9000km and the belt every 120000km. I am at 80000km and no problems yet related to that but your video is very cool and informative I am never buying a car again without carefully investigating more on its engine. Thanks!
@MarkoPolloPrformc
@MarkoPolloPrformc Ай бұрын
everything can work, if the quality is right. not saying, hondas quality is good, just saying: a broken clock is right, twice a day. if my chained corsa is 60k per change, you should 100% do it every 30.000km. if it fails, your engine is DONE. no warranty, i promise. it doesnt have to break in a big way. all those years of sucked up, hot oil in a rubber product? couldve told you 20 years ago, that this idea was stupid. precaution in those belts, thats all im trying to say. work at citroen and the amount of belt changes we do is astounding. especially the ones that still got like 10.000km until it SHOULD be changed....but the engine is dead, because of the belt.... i cant see that french pile of plastic and sharp-everything anymore, it physically makes me want to gag.
@markleggett3944
@markleggett3944 Ай бұрын
Check your sources. I'm seeing that this engine uses a timing chain, not a belt. I hope this makes your day. Honda knows these wet belts are problematic.
@ymirfritz9989
@ymirfritz9989 Ай бұрын
@@markleggett3944 the 1.0 turbo uses a wet belt that is notorious for failure in hondas
@markleggett3944
@markleggett3944 Ай бұрын
@@ymirfritz9989 Thanks for that info. I'm sorry to hear that Honda has fallen into the disposable car market as well.
@ymirfritz9989
@ymirfritz9989 Ай бұрын
@@markleggett3944 honda withdrew it from sale after one generation after it became even more unreliable than stellantis belts and incredibly costly to replace
@manchegocheese997
@manchegocheese997 4 ай бұрын
My neighbour just bought a new Citroen C4 with a 3-cylinder wet-belt engine and it runs so hot that the tops of the front wings become almost too hot to touch. His new car replaces another wet-belt C4 for which he was quoted £1200 to replace the belt, and yet he bought another. He's a Citroen devotee since the days when the Peugeot Citreon made pretty good diesels.
@mmllmmll22
@mmllmmll22 4 ай бұрын
Ah yes. 2.0 HDi. 136kms (or 110 in 8v head). 5L/100Km and it does over 500k kms without much problems. And they can be easly remapped (136km -> 170km) with even more fuel saving. I was able to get... 4.3L/100kms doing constant 90km/h.
@peglor
@peglor 4 ай бұрын
The Xantia was the last car Citroen made that deserved the Citroen name 😞.
@MiGujack3
@MiGujack3 4 ай бұрын
He will get the Puretech curse sooner or later.
@mikeoneill2845
@mikeoneill2845 2 ай бұрын
Great video - absolutely loved your description of the problem and its likely driver. I am definitely taking your advice and avoiding wet belt engines. I currently drive a GM Mokka with the 1.4T Petrol engine, and I change the oil every six months or so (for me, that's about 5k miles). I shall be changing soon to something like a Nissan Qashqai.
@AndyFletcherX31
@AndyFletcherX31 4 ай бұрын
One of the worst things with the wet belt on the Transit van is it sheds particles which block the oil feed to the vacuum pump - the result of this is the vehicle brakes fail when you don't expect it. One of my neighbours nearly had a very bad accident when trying to stop.
@JHe-f9t
@JHe-f9t 4 ай бұрын
That doesn't make any sense. Vacuum is created by the intake.
@AndyFletcherX31
@AndyFletcherX31 4 ай бұрын
@@JHe-f9t The vacuum pump on the transit has a oil inlet with a hole about 1mm in diameter. Doesn't take much to clog it - then the pump stops working and has to be replaced.
@thisissparta9
@thisissparta9 4 ай бұрын
@@JHe-f9t Diesel engines use vacuum pumps.
@JHe-f9t
@JHe-f9t 4 ай бұрын
@@AndyFletcherX31So ford in their infinite wisdom took an existing vacuum system that has worked for forever that has no moving parts and is free and put in a vacuum pump?! And it's $500 to replace?! And I thought ford from the early 2000s were bad...
@KR-hg8be
@KR-hg8be 4 ай бұрын
​@user-yu8ur9yi9e turbo engines don't make consistent vacuum, the intake is pressurized and the vaccum infront of the turbo isnt enough on even gas engines now. So they fit mechanical vacuum pumps to run the power brake booster no matter the engine boost level, this isn't a ford thing it's a all turbo engine thing. Diesels have had them forever and now gas engines have them.
@roysoutdoorlife
@roysoutdoorlife 4 ай бұрын
I used to work for a major European car manufacturer. They released a new engine in the early 2000's, which had a timing chain that wasn't designed to be replaced. Instead, I was told the engine was designed for 100,000 miles (with regular scheduled servicing) and anything after that was a bonus. The point is, for any manufacturer to keep selling cars, they don't want long lasting cars that keep on going.
@Okurka.
@Okurka. 4 ай бұрын
TBF, 100k miles on a car back then in Europe was a lot.
@anonnon2278
@anonnon2278 4 ай бұрын
@@Okurka. And ironically it also is now.
@artforz
@artforz 4 ай бұрын
@@Okurka. It really wasn't. Basically every EA827 VW motor except for the G40/G60 would do 150k+ miles no problem. Which is also why they were available dirt cheap on junk yards for ages - VWs were scrapped because they rusted out, not due to engine wear.
@Okurka.
@Okurka. 4 ай бұрын
@@artforz I didn't say anything about engine wear...
@Me-zo8yc
@Me-zo8yc 4 ай бұрын
If people buy junk, they will keep churning out junk.
@arrowhead455
@arrowhead455 4 ай бұрын
We can conclude that engineering exists to make an engine last 500k miles. Engineers now focus solely on timing big failures just outside the warranty expiration. The closer they get to the expiration date, the better the engineering job. Kudos to the folks at BMW - you are at the head of the class!! 👊
@rubberduck4966
@rubberduck4966 4 ай бұрын
A Yamaha XJR1300 Timing Chain only lasts up to 498kkm. Must be a weak design............ for a Motorbike.
@phiksit
@phiksit 4 ай бұрын
...engineering USED TO exist to make an engine last 500k... Yep, now they want things just barely good enough to outlast warranty, aka planned obsolescence.
@ClockworksOfGL
@ClockworksOfGL 4 ай бұрын
Don’t assume malice when incompetence is a good explanation. A lot of the oldtime grease-under-the-fingernails engineers are gone and companies are stuck with CAD monkeys that couldn’t even change the oil in their lawnmowers.
@jb5nf
@jb5nf 4 ай бұрын
😂yes....Original Lexus LS400 engine. Pure silk designed to basically run forever, for instance. Or the original red block Volvo with a timing gear/sprocket....
@AEVMU
@AEVMU 4 ай бұрын
Been like that since the 90s if not mid 80s.
@maartenk7513
@maartenk7513 28 күн бұрын
Great explanation. The Puretech engine is one of the reasons I moved from Opel/Vauxhall to Nissan. I felt sorry for my Opel dealer who always provided great service.
@SpoutnikVostok
@SpoutnikVostok 4 ай бұрын
I worked as an automotive prototyping technician from the 80s to 2014 , for five different manufacturers : I saw the skill level of designers decrease year after year ... When you explain something to them , because you have experience , they don't listen to you and only trust their calculation software ... I don't think this was done on purpose. it's just stupidity . I have hundreds of examples...
@SpoutnikVostok
@SpoutnikVostok 4 ай бұрын
@@phoenixcustomrifles1430 Yes , that's exactly it ... they live in a virtual world where everything works , but only on computer screens . they only listen to the technicians once they realize their mistakes ... calculation and drawing software only works well with people who have real knowledge in a real world
@lag_profil
@lag_profil 4 ай бұрын
This was definitely done on purpose and the purpuse is to fail. Everything is engineered to fail nowadays because manufacturers don't make any money on things that last forever. They make money selling new stuff and selling spare parts.
@jb5nf
@jb5nf 4 ай бұрын
Please share 😂
@julianmorris9951
@julianmorris9951 4 ай бұрын
I’ve just had to take the front end off my Renault master , radiator out and remove starter motor to get at the hole to screw the timing pin in to lock the crankshaft to change the timing chain, and remove top engine mount 🤷 engineers now come on a dingy 😂
@davidrussell8689
@davidrussell8689 4 ай бұрын
@@phoenixcustomrifles1430 I hold in high regard the academic achievement of any engineer . However , in my experience there are few these days who can see further than their computer models . It requires common sense , not just intelligence, to use such powerful tools correctly .
@unclebear4806
@unclebear4806 4 ай бұрын
My ford Ranger 2.0 Bi-turbo use this timing belt belt dip in oil engine. The manual said to replace it at 240,000Km but I heard that a large number truck of the same model have issue of timing belt break before reaching 200,000Km. So, on my 165,000Km oil change, I decided to have the timing belt change as well. And sure enough, the old timing belt the coms out of my truck had a lot of crack on its rubber. My mechanic told me I made the right called, the original timing belt wouldn't last another 1000Km.
@akioto1116
@akioto1116 4 ай бұрын
one thing that I find amazing is that f1 (pinnacle of motorsports engineering) is using timing GEARS instead of belts and chains for the last 20 years and no one even mentions it as a possibility to solve this problem once and for all.
@fivish
@fivish 4 ай бұрын
There are engines with shaft drive instead of geers and belts.
@alexandruilea915
@alexandruilea915 4 ай бұрын
There were engines made with timing gears, like the 3.0 liters diesel from VW used in the first generation of Tuareg. It basically never has to be serviced.
@firstNamelastName-ho6lv
@firstNamelastName-ho6lv 4 ай бұрын
Super noisy and ineficient. Race cars usually have timing gears to be robust, but chains/belts are way more reliable in the long run because they make up for small changes im clearences and wear.
@hunchanchoc8418
@hunchanchoc8418 4 ай бұрын
Like the 2CV !
@Sam-og3lo
@Sam-og3lo 4 ай бұрын
A lot of race car engineering is inappropriate for road car applications as the goals are so different. NVH, cost and long-term reliability being the obvious ones. As you can imagine it's a lot more difficult to tightly control the position and precision tooth form of a series of gears versus a few gears connected by a much more compliant chain/belt.
@Fractal227
@Fractal227 22 күн бұрын
The first thing my mechanic said to me when i was looking for a new car, was NOT to get a car with this belt type. Vendors apparently often dont replace these as they should or take responsibility for failure even under service agreements. thank you for your video, it was very informative, but again display corporate greed and governments that let it happen.
@pututski6968
@pututski6968 4 ай бұрын
The rant at the end was my favourite part. I feel that from the bottom of my heart too, just the crushing feeling of how much further we could be or could have become if it all wasn't in the quest for squeezing every last dollar and the very soul.
@captaintoyota3171
@captaintoyota3171 2 ай бұрын
As a species we could be EASY 50-75yrs more advanced in society tech education and makong every humans life better. But nope profits greed and short sightedness is how we operate. Only when nature/the universe finally wrecks us will we maybe change. Sadly it may be too late and our species may not make it.
@joellamoureux7914
@joellamoureux7914 3 ай бұрын
I am a mechanic. I WILL NOT OWN A BELT driven This video is extremely informative. Thank you sir. Everyone needs to see this.
@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x
@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x 3 ай бұрын
Meanwhile, failing chain tensioners: ☠️
@Daschickenify
@Daschickenify 3 ай бұрын
@@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x The belts need a tensioner too, they just don't give (as much) auditory warning on their way out.
@Eyoldaith
@Eyoldaith 2 ай бұрын
@@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x Failing belt tensioners aren't any better. We had to replace like 3 alternators and the batteries (and the tensioner) a while back in our garage after one of the auxiliary belt tensioners locked up on a bus. But hey, at least they fail quietly :^)
@tommcmahon14
@tommcmahon14 2 ай бұрын
@@Daschickenifythey do, they rattle like fuck because the tensioner has gone slack and failed. Talking from experience
@Daschickenify
@Daschickenify 2 ай бұрын
@@tommcmahon14 You're right, I misremembered. I've seen videos of failing timing belt tensioners and they do make noise.
@morgan5630
@morgan5630 4 ай бұрын
Man, I watch a lot of your videos (M.E. here) and I just want to let you know, I appreciate your passion and bluntness immensely. You don’t try to fake reality in any way, I don’t know a better way to put it. Love from California.
@robertdevonald
@robertdevonald Ай бұрын
I looked at buying the Peugeot 3008, and found to my amazement it has a wet belt system, so glad now I kept my 1994 Peugeot 405, it has it's faults yes, but simply easier to fix.
@arthurrichardson3439
@arthurrichardson3439 4 ай бұрын
I have owned two Ford products, a Lincoln Continental and an E-150 van. While both had steel oil pans, they apparently were painted with a coating which allowed road salt and moisture to work it's way under and eat through the pan, causing the oil to leak out. I repaired each in turn with a material from an auto parts store which reduced the leaks to an occasional drip and got rid of the vehicles. Part of the price we pay to live in the rust belt Thanks, Ford
@sinisatrlin840
@sinisatrlin840 4 ай бұрын
5:27 Renault 1,2 and 0,9 tce engines have timing chains. 1,5dci has dry timing belt, i have 2 from different ages and power. Dry belt.
@koenlauwaert5970
@koenlauwaert5970 3 ай бұрын
Indeed, Renault has only dry belts and chain engines to my knowledge. Great video though!
@HobbyfotograafBart
@HobbyfotograafBart 2 ай бұрын
Yes, the engine in my Dacia Logan MCV 0,9tce has a timing chain.
@AlexisyFR
@AlexisyFR Ай бұрын
That's correct, but the 1.2 TCe is also known for segmentation issues, which also catastrophically broke the engine early. At least they fairly quickly fixed it around the end of 2016 and moved on to the pretty good 1.3 TCe after 2017.
@sinisatrlin840
@sinisatrlin840 Ай бұрын
@@AlexisyFR In our fleet of company and personal cars/vans we have; 1.5dci, 1.6dci x3, 2.0dci, 2.5dci x2, 1,2D7F and 1.3Tce from Renault, also we have few Nissan vehicules and had some VWs. With good maintenance they serve us quite well. Only 1.5dci, 2.5dci and old D7F have dry timing belts but that is not a problem, they are not sensitive.
@haku1155
@haku1155 4 ай бұрын
I am working daily on the 1.2T Pure Tech from Peugeot. It is absolute shit. We had more than 100 instances of premature belt replacement in 2023. And by premature I dont mean like you said around 100k km, I mean 35-50k km. The earliest was around 20k if I remember correctly. Peugot has in time done four things to combat this: The service interval was reduced from 30.000km to 20.000km, the belt interval was reduced to 60.000km, checking the belt is now a point on the yearly insepaction, with the tool you showed, the wet belt design was replaced by a chain in late '23.
@dEaThNr84
@dEaThNr84 4 ай бұрын
And you must use a special Oil for (in Germany) 30€ per litre. Every service.
@ang9222
@ang9222 4 ай бұрын
😂, enjoying the diagnostic? Thoes engine came new 2017 ish, engine problem starts not even reach 10000km.
@mdousak
@mdousak 4 ай бұрын
Had this engine, serviced by book at the dealership. Even had the belt replaced prematurely due to cracking. Still, at 110k km the engine was done due to running dry (pieces of rubber blocked the oil pathways). THe dealer was quite frank by telling me they could in theory get me a new short block and fix it but in practice I should get rid of the car and get something else because the engine is total crap made for 100-150kkm. It was at time when they stopped selling diesels in EU and only had this engine in their lineup so they basically told me to buy car from someone else.
@kallek6872
@kallek6872 4 ай бұрын
Have the car with that engine. The belt failed around 60kkm and engine was repaired under warranty.
@markleggett3944
@markleggett3944 Ай бұрын
Is the oil pump also chain driven?
@michielb206
@michielb206 Ай бұрын
Some manufacturers have stopped using wet timing belts, but still include a wet belt to drive the pump etc. These engines will not fail catastrophically but can still have the clogged oil pump issue. The very first thing I check when buying a car is if it has any wet belts, if it does it will never make any shortlist.
@nibiruresearch
@nibiruresearch 3 ай бұрын
Thank you for this beautiful made explanation about the wet belt problem. Never seen a program made so clear with your presentation that is absolutely magnificent. I drive an Ecoboost engine nearly 10 years and for 136,000 kilometers and I try to sell my car a.s.a.p. It is a shame that manufactures keep producing this system. And its a shame that the Ecoboost motor won the price for best motor during 5 years at least.
@JanMichaelSullano
@JanMichaelSullano 4 ай бұрын
“Garbage technology“ - so true! This was the deciding factor I had when I selected Mazda CX-3 over the Peugeot 2008.
@BOTmaster15
@BOTmaster15 4 ай бұрын
Hah I thought bout buying a Mazda Cx3 but it was too cramped for me. Long story short I bought Ford Ecosport with 2.0 duratec(basically mazda engine xD) and 6f15 gearbox. Ohnestly the best combo for this small car and I would not touch ford 1.0 with 10m pole. It is kinda sad when fun cars are getting "short stick" of bad engine/trans combo.
@markleggett3944
@markleggett3944 Ай бұрын
You dodged a bullet on that one. Pay more upfront and save much more later on.
@bcxmontiel4875
@bcxmontiel4875 4 ай бұрын
Please remember that most of those engines were mostly developed before the diesel gate. At this time, European emissions standards were hitting hard, with regular and stringent updates, even if some cheated or interpreted it in some edgy ways. Bean counting design has been applied to so many engines back then, especially on the emission side of the spectrum. Also, the market was more lively than it is today, and all manufacturers were trying to avoid echoing those development costs to the customer. I worked as a machining engineer in camshaft/crankshaft manufacturing in the late 2010s. We had to cope with some design updates for like, -0,2 grams of CO2 per km. Now, imagine if you follow the same search for minimal gains for a totally new design. If a design project leader was able to demonstrate he could maintain the same engine on the market for the next 2 or 3 euro emission updates, he would most certainly take the cake. So they generally stacked cheap, unproven, quick to develop solutions to obtain their results, without thinking of the aftermath. Those consumption reductions were never meant to be perceived by the consumer, their intent was to develop a new euro compliant engine as cheaply as possible, that could be sold for many years without much updates, no matter the long term reliability. Small downsized 3 cylinders are just a plain example of their own. What worries me the most is that they somehow have to compensate back the emission gains another way around if they bring back more reliable solutions. Any ICE update or ground-up design is incredibly expensive for a manufacturer, and nowadays this will most definitely impact the selling cost.
@anonymebande8561
@anonymebande8561 Ай бұрын
Me happily driving my 385.000km Mercedes W124 with a timing chain being as thick and rigid as can be, with it still being the first chain, put there almost 32 years ago! Now that’s what I call Quality! It gets an oil change every 5.000km, since it my summer car, and it still works like it’s new
@artysanmobile
@artysanmobile 4 ай бұрын
In 40 years driving front engined Porsches, I’ve changed dozens of belts, both cam and balance. A good belt was a dry belt - period. Those belts were a big deal to replace and tension properly and of course, interference engines. I got pretty damned good at it. If I could detect any sign of oil on those belts, I knew I had much bigger issues and that they were NOW issues.
@finleymakee4850
@finleymakee4850 4 ай бұрын
If it's not leaking it's either a Porsche or it's not an old German car😂
@artysanmobile
@artysanmobile 4 ай бұрын
@@finleymakee4850 Well, it took a second to parse your odd wording, but it looks like “only Porsches do not leak” which is close to true but old German cars all leak, which of course makes no sense.
@finleymakee4850
@finleymakee4850 4 ай бұрын
@@artysanmobile If any old car doesn't leak at least a little that's how you know you gotta add some oil or you've got a bigger problem😅
@budthecyborg4575
@budthecyborg4575 4 ай бұрын
Ironically the only real solution to combat planned obsolescence is consumer awareness, this video being a prime example. Now it's up to us viewers to do our job and tell all of our friends and family to boycott wet timing belts.
@hhjhj393
@hhjhj393 4 ай бұрын
Hahaha. Bro every car is fcked. Cars have thousands of parts. If they don't get you in one area they will just get you in another. We as consumers have very little power. Auto manufacturers have the USA by the balls. If we don't have cars our society crumbles because we don't have good public transportation. We are completely and utterly dependent on them, so they can do whatever they want and get away with it. We have no bargaining power.
@faustinpippin9208
@faustinpippin9208 4 ай бұрын
Or extend te min warranty for things like cars to 10 years. 2 years is a joke for something like a car....
@CheapBastard1988
@CheapBastard1988 4 ай бұрын
​@@faustinpippin9208But then the manufacturers think of terms and conditions like the car has to be serviced by their own dealerships or refuse people who went over their service interval distance by a small bit. It's better not to buy any of the cars that have one.
@exothermal.sprocket
@exothermal.sprocket 4 ай бұрын
Isn't it fun chasing the tail of reactionary economic pressures with moronic manufacturers?
@klondike69none85
@klondike69none85 2 ай бұрын
we could legislate quality standards you know
@HamiltonMechanical
@HamiltonMechanical 4 ай бұрын
honda came out with the GC160/GCV160 mower engines in the early 2000s, rubber timing belt that rode in the sump. I got out of the industry by 2012 but even to this day, I've never heard of one failing. Those were good little engines. After going through honda training school on them, they explained to us all these little things they had thought about. Like, for example, the choke lever had a nub made onto it so you could plug the fuel line with it. Everything was really designed as much as they could to make it easy to work on. I inquired about timing belt changes and while they did make the crankcase come apart in such a way you could change the belt, they said most would never need it, as it lasted the life of the engine. And, they were right, like I said, never saw one fail. Of course, Honda was also making riding lawnmowers with timing belt driven engines back in 1985, which is just insane haha.
@paladain55
@paladain55 4 ай бұрын
10 years on the wet belt in my gx25. Crazy how good these things are. Regularly see them with 25 years on them on fbm. But i bet it has something to do with the hp:belt ratio. Probably much better on these than cars.
@VivusGames
@VivusGames Ай бұрын
After watching entire video I can say that you are pretty much on point on everything you said but I have few addons. I drive a diesel with tdi engine, manufacturer says that oil change interval is 15 to 17 000km, you try that your engine will fail after 100 000km. after 12 000km or 1,5yrs your oil loses viscosity and it wont have effect as it should, but here is catch. You can change oil on 17 000km and you will be fine forever but you will need to make 300kms or more every day and you will be fine. Same with belt it will last 240 000km if you drive like 500kms every day. PS. I once heard one wise man said something like this. Manufacturers always wanted to make something that will fail after warranty but didnt have means to do so. Technology before was not as advanced as it is today so they couldn't risk it to fail before warranty ends, hence parts lasted for so long (thats why you had chains as thick as tumb...), nowdays they can precisely calculate how long part will last, and as sooner as you need to change it more money they make. They put 240 000km interval for belt change, and gave you warranty of 150 000km and or 5 years, try to figure why is that like that.
@fleonard4
@fleonard4 4 ай бұрын
It goes along with Ford's business model of "Fix Or Repair Daily", and "Found On Road Dead".
@victorcat8893
@victorcat8893 3 ай бұрын
Another description of the initials of the word "Ford" is "first on rubbish dump".
@waggish4999
@waggish4999 3 ай бұрын
@@victorcat8893 Nah, the best one and most fitting for this video: Full Of Re****ed Designs
@seltsamerzeitgenosse9797
@seltsamerzeitgenosse9797 4 ай бұрын
16:50 ff.: Preach on brother. Preach on. It's indeed important to talk about such madness in detail.
@darrenreynolds598
@darrenreynolds598 4 ай бұрын
I’m a mechanic and am not surprised as humanity is greedy. Technology moves on but humans never change
@eduardomeller6926
@eduardomeller6926 7 күн бұрын
Loved the animation at 2:11 showing the piston hitting the valve.
@dividead100
@dividead100 4 ай бұрын
Nice to see you do a 180 from your "companies aren't evil" video. They might just have been inept when they first did this but they became "evil" when they kept doing it. There's lots of this in many industries and the current state of things is outrageous but there is finally some push back, we'll have to wait and see if it achieves anything. Not to put this on you but this widespread "I don't want to be negative" feeling is how we got here, you should be negative when you have a reason to be. What I'll be doing is fixing my 16year old car, which has never broken down, even if it's not financially viable to do so as I'm sure it will last 16 more years if, worse case scenario, I spend half the cost of a new car on it and I'm pretty sure the new car won't last 16 years.
@gregorymalchuk272
@gregorymalchuk272 4 ай бұрын
The companies are behaving badly because the government destroyed their profit margins with fuel economy regulations. This all comes back to government central planning.
@arthurdefreitaseprecht2648
@arthurdefreitaseprecht2648 4 ай бұрын
​@@gregorymalchuk272excuse me, but have you seen the climate lately? Emission standards are necessary and inevitable. It is sad that cars become more expensive, but I prefer that, than living in a mad max style world with collapsed weather. I know, cars are not the sole emitters of GH gas, but we need to battle it from all fronts.
@maxiferrari08
@maxiferrari08 4 ай бұрын
​​@@gregorymalchuk272 yes blame everything on the government and not on the greedy manufacturers that hain directly from this kind of practice. If it was really the case that the manufacturers are doing this because of environmental regulations, then why are they going back to normal dry belts and why doesn't every engine have a wet belt?
@gregorymalchuk272
@gregorymalchuk272 4 ай бұрын
@@arthurdefreitaseprecht2648 Did you not watch the video? Engines that self destruct at 100,000 miles are NOT good for the climate. We had Geo Metros in the 1990s getting 54 mpg. We've gone backwards. The government is now using fuel economy, emissions, and safety regulations to stealth ban the internal combustion engine, and to spike carbon emissions from remanufacturing and make everything miserable in the process.
@gregorymalchuk272
@gregorymalchuk272 4 ай бұрын
@@maxiferrari08 Because the cost of the wet belt lawsuits and warranty claims exceeded the 1% fuel economy benefit toward not getting fined millions under CAFE regulations.
@jimm2442
@jimm2442 4 ай бұрын
You just did a great job of laying out the facts. As a retired mechanic it greatly disturbs me that the manufactures seem to not care once the garbage they produce is out of factory warranty (Ford Motor Company). Now also GM with their 3.0 liter Duramax Diesel that uses a wet belt to drive the engines oil pump. To replace this belt the transmission has to be removed! This is why we as consumers need to do a lot of research before buying. Your video is an important part of the information us consumers need to make an informed decision. Thank you.
@hwertz10
@hwertz10 4 ай бұрын
What? Damn. I just finished posting I thought (in the US) it was only Ford using these things. Damn it GM I thought you knew better.
@heiderider1382
@heiderider1382 4 ай бұрын
O-Rings are also made out of NBR or FPM (Viton) and very reliable against mineraoil. But in difference they are not so mechanical stressed and swelling is even good for proper sealing. Very interesting report as always from your channel.
@seanb9814
@seanb9814 2 ай бұрын
I'm totally with you, including your restrained rant at the end! Look to the finance industry. Creating PCP leases, driving new car buyers to a 3 year replacement cycle. The manufacturers sell (or rather lease) to the first customer. The bean counters focus on annual profits and care much less about products that last and that are economical to repair. As a fellow engineer you'll know the designers use software that accurately predicts the lifetime of parts. Ask a manufacturer what is the expected lifetime of their cars? You won't get a straight answer. The reality is warranty period plus a small margin. With the wet belts I'm sure the engineers were ignored. The auto-industry is just broken.
@cybair9341
@cybair9341 4 ай бұрын
I am old enough to remember the reliability of gear-driven camshafts and pushrod engines. Man, those American engines were good ! Planned obsolescence existed back then but it was achieved by body styling obsolescence ...and rust.
@TassieLorenzo
@TassieLorenzo 4 ай бұрын
Even modern American pushrod engines don't use gear-driven cams though, I'm not sure why. The chain is very short, so surely it is possibly to create a design that uses a gear to drive the cam on the LS (LT) series? Sadly, instead the LS timing chain is a point of failure.
@cybair9341
@cybair9341 4 ай бұрын
@@TassieLorenzo - True. But my Pontiac Phoenix and my 84 Fiero 4 cyl both had a gear driven cam although the cam gear was made of fiberglass.
@Mikexxx531
@Mikexxx531 4 ай бұрын
@@cybair9341 That's the problem! You're driving real power to the camshaft and it should be through steel gears, not aluminum, fiberglass or plastic. There's also torsional vibration to consider. There's no substitute for steel gears without bushings, but that tends to make noise. So what? I'd rather have a noisy engine that works and has reduced maintenance than one that fails on the road.
@Stambo59
@Stambo59 4 ай бұрын
Exactly what I have been thinking since I heard Fords Ecobust motors were running their belts in oil. Just put in a much clearer and coherent manner than I ever could. Great video.
@LA_Commander
@LA_Commander 4 ай бұрын
Only the very small engines. The 2.0, 2.3, 2.7, and 3.5 liter engines have chains.
@exothermal.sprocket
@exothermal.sprocket 4 ай бұрын
1.0 and 1.5 and 1.6 wet belts?
@LA_Commander
@LA_Commander 4 ай бұрын
@@exothermal.sprocket correct
@blar2112
@blar2112 4 ай бұрын
8:08 DING DING DING DINGGGGG. This is why car manufacturers consider wet belt a success.
@geneturner3190
@geneturner3190 4 ай бұрын
Exactly, they want people to buy new engines
@nicholasvinen
@nicholasvinen 4 ай бұрын
Planned obsolescence.
@sniper2349
@sniper2349 4 ай бұрын
Ford products are garbage this is one more reason why. Even if you wanted to drop the oil pan and clean the pickup tube the Oil pan are "single use" . Ford robs people blind and they would be out of business if they didn't have fleet accounts.
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