2017 Chevy Bolt EV: Measuring Battery Degradation after 120,000 Miles

[@dipu10]

Chevy should sponsor you, you are quite literally the reason I just decided to buy a bolt. Thank you for all the super informative videos.

[@kingprone7846]

why would you ... buy a bolt

[@smar3167]

@@kingprone7846 dynamite drop in!

[@MrBlack-pf5ye]

Agreed!

[@saqibnawaz5139]

Bolt has proven once again it's resiliency,even after120k mls retaining95%of it's batry capacity extremely less batry degradation

[@Prodigious1One]

Wow...you already drove it to 120,000 miles? I had to rewind to hear you clearly. That's impressive!

[@jaehoonchoi]

This is jaehoon from Seoul, Korea. I am looking forward to buying a used Volt EV. So I want to get to a useful information on how to figure out battery degradation. I finally have found your video clip. Thanks Eric. I have joined your channel. I know your country is going through a hard time because of Corona virus. I hope you be safe and healthy. :)

[@dathyr1]

Thanks for all this information. Bookmarking this video to watch again how you calculated the degradation of the Bolt. I know I won't remember this later on. I will be getting a 2023 Bolt EV 2LT this spring 2023. Thanks and take care.

[@Meditry93]

I really appreciate the information you’ve provided. I recently purchased a used 2017 Bolt partially based off of the info you’ve provided. As far as I can tell, the degradation on my battery is negligible and I can easily make 200+ miles range on a charge without any effort. It’s nice that these cars are viable as a used option to let people into the EV game at an affordable price!

[@lw216316]

local dealer has 2017 Bolt for $17,000 with 25k miles. Is that price too high ?

[@timothyhuang7184]

@@lw216316 For comparison, I just got a 2017 Bolt (Premier, w/ all available options) with 17.5k miles for about $18,900 from a used ev car dealer, so I'd say that's not bad. I love it! I think currently new 2020 ones are going for about $30-$34 with all the steep discounts due to them not selling well during the pandemic.

[@lw216316]

thank you

[@carmellabe]

Winters are a downside on battery range

[@richardneilson1188]

Thank you for the information. I have 2017 Bolt with 62,000 miles, and 2018 Bolt with 24,000 miles. Both are charged at home every night on L2 to 100%. I have not noticed any degradation in efficiency or range on the 2017, other than seasonal adjustments. My wife drives the 2018. I don't drive as fast as you do, so slightly better range. Using the heater has far more effect on range than anything else. As of January, both vehicles are driven by family members, so I rarely get to use them, as we are not traveling due to shelter in place. Neither vehicle has required any service other than a new set of tires, as well as the recommended updates, for the 2017. Due to your channel I developed two driving styles, one for DCFC on road trips, and one for around the local area on L2. As of January 2020, I am driving 2016 Leaf. I miss the Bolt.

[@prerunnerwannabe]

Just curious, why don't you use the hilltop reserve mode? To me, using that setting to limit the charge to ~90% seems like the natural choice to make sure your battery lasts tens of years while minimizing wear and degradation.

[@richardneilson1188]

Four reasons why I decided to charge to 100% as opposed to "hilltop reserve mode", no particular order: (1) Regenerative braking is effective after you drive a couple of blocks. (Someone argued that regenerative braking wouldn't work at 100% charge, so to use regenerative braking you must only charge to 90%.) (2) I understood at the time of purchase that total battery capacity was in excess of usable capacity, which meant that I never really charged to 100% anyway. I think capacity is an estimate depending on type of measurement used. (3) I am unaware of any testing on the Bolt battery that indicates charging to 90% makes the battery last any longer that charging to 100% especially on L2 charging. In fact, I think that charging to 100% with L2 is much easier on the battery than any DCFC. (Heat, I imagine.) And finally, (4) I simply wanted to run my own experiment to test the above, and so far my clinical real world observations are as stated, charging to 100% daily with L2 does not appear to have any effect on the battery. To be sure, check back with me in seven years for the ten year conclusions.

[@doThatGWalk]

@@richardneilson1188 Why don't you like your Leaf?

[@pedinomefaux]

You are the reason I decided to go electric. Thank you.

[@DonaldHidalgo]

What a good explanation and I am super impressed with the mileage you have managed to make to the BOLT. About 6 months ago I bought one 2017 and managed to find it with less than 4,000 miles, which indicates that I have EV for a long time of operation, Greetings from Costa Rica, Pura Vida!

[@homomorphic]

This is really awesome considering how much you fast charge.

[@davidmccarthy6061]

I saw a video on the Bolt last year of a GM battery exec interviewed and he did say that we (Bolt owners) can charge as much as we want without worrying. Which tells me that they pretty much know we won't be able to degrade it below the warranty level no matter what we do. I personally would never buy any EV that didn't have active thermal battery management.

[@robertkirchner7981]

Maybe this is the payoff for the painfully conservative charging curve the Bolt has.

[@homomorphic]

@@robertkirchner7981 that's exactly what it is. It's a huge payoff not just for the owner, but for the planet, as the longer we can use the batteries the better

[@homomorphic]

@@davidmccarthy6061 the warranty is no more than 30% degradation in 100,000 miles. 30% degradation in 100k would be *horrible*.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I actually think the biggest contributor to my battery life has been the depth of discharge. I repeatedly dip down to below 5% battery, and I think the that prior to the reprogramming, there was an additional 1-2 kWh of energy that I could access on the bottom end. I think that has been the biggest factor.

[@GusDom]

I've been having my 2017 Bolt for a little over a year now. So far I have had no issues and the range has been AMAZING. I love not having to take it in to the mechanic for oil changes. Lol.

[@dansanger5340]

The Bolt seems like a really reliable car. I don't remember you having any major problems, and battery degradation is pretty minimal.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Yes, the car itself has been very reliable. It's sustained some damage over the years, but it hasn't had any mechanical or systems issues.

[@ryans.7558]

@@newscoulomb3705 Eh, you've been driving it and not using it as a garage queen. Some signs of wear is totally normal. I've been following how yours is doing especially with all of the DCFC charging you do to give me an indication how my 2019 will fare. So far, I'm not worried. Maintenance is certainly way lower than an ICE vehicle. Most I've done to mine is a break bleed to replace the old fluid with fresh DOT 3. Other than the other usual things like tire rotations, wipers, winter prep/post cleaning, etc. Did have 1 whoops with mine and drove the battery right down to 1% by mistake. Was sweating pulling up to the Electrify America sight (should have just stopped at the much closer Level 2 chargers since I was waiting on the spouse to finish with their surgery they were called in for). Won't make that mistake again.

[@JimArnold6]

@@ryans.7558 I'm planning to bleed and replace the brake fluid in our Bolt this fall when I switch back to winter tires. I purchased a Motive Power Bleeder. What did you use? Do you know if the bleed order is different than RR, LR, RF, LF? Not real excited by how far the brake reservoir is up under the cowling. Also, any need to disconnect the 12V or anything else you learned you can pass along? TIA.

[@futbol1972]

Ur not worry it will catch on fire do to battery issues on all bolts and are u restricting charging capacity like GM recommends so it has a less chance of battery catching on fire until they replace battery???

[@fkoffytb]

@@futbol1972 There where only 13 chevy bolts that catch fire back from 2017, out of an average of 22k sold back from 2017, so you have around 0.05% on a production year or around .008% all time production time of probability to catch fire on a chevy bolt, I am very sure the probability in any other EV or regular ICE car is way higher.

[@suvivorteen113311]

Thank you for continuing to give us updates on the health of your bolt ev battery. Im planning on purchasing a 2017 bolt ev in the near future and seeing this is reassuring that the car will last a long time for me.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks!

[@anthonyc8499]

If the 2017-19 60kWh Bolt EV's usable capacity is truly 58kWh then it's a huge testament to LG and GM for engineering a car that retains 94.5% after 120k miles. That bodes really well for any car manufacturer that goes with LG as a battery supplier. Compare 94.5% retention to Tesla's 85kWh & 90kWh packs from the same time period and it's not even close.

[@Roadburner426]

Yeah I thought it was only 57kwh usable as well. He shows that at the end though. Cause being a former Leaf owner and losing over 50% of my battery capacity in 56,000 miles I am like he really didnt lose a lot. Thanks for the info though! 10,000 miles later I am so glad I went with my Bolt EV instead of Gen2 Leaf.

[@usaverageguy]

@@Roadburner426 Wow. I thought my 2012 Leaf was bad. I lost 39% in 60k miles. Have you talked to Nissan about a battery replacement under warrenty? It is probably a waste to ask. But worth a try.

[@timcampbell5873]

@Anthony Carroll, what % degradation do the Teslas have?

[@anthonyc8499]

@@timcampbell5873 two things are going on with the 85 & 90 kWh packs. First, the degradation is pretty bad as reported by owners with an example today in a popular blog of a 2018 90kWh pack with 100k miles and 10% degradation. The second thing with 85/90 packs is the DCFC throttling. 85 packs Supercharge no better than a Bolt EV now and 90 packs get throttled once they hit a certain number of kWh of DC energy. A certain popular Norwegian EV KZbinr has a lot of info on the throttling.

[@mikecarter2737]

@@Roadburner426 Our 2017 Leaf, -5% after 36,000 miles 650 DCFC sessions. 2019, -6% after 17,000 miles. Really good cars if you understand their limitations - mostly we do 200-500 mile/day trips.

[@scarletbegonias2359]

That's extremely valuable information, thanx for doing you due diligence, so the rest of us can benefit from your hard work.

[@usaverageguy]

I will try this method when I visit family this coming December. But I use my Bolt so rarely for long trips. The full range is not really an issue. I imagine for most owners they do not use more than 50% of the available battery.

[@homomorphic]

That's exactly how I calculated my battery capacity recently (although I went down to 4%). I have a 2019 with 18,000 miles and using this mechanism of measurement, it calculates at 100% capacity (59.7kWh) within the resolution of measurement.

[@johngould4851]

I have an early ‘17 (Feb) and although I have only put on about 20k I will use your system to check my battery condition. Also when Dr. John Kelly @ Weber University took apart a Bolt, the number total from the batteries only added up to 57km I think.

[@johngould4851]

Should be kw

[@homomorphic]

@@johngould4851 Yes a lot of the 2017 production was derated to around 57kWh. 2018 and 2019 production all appears to be the full 60kWh (or at least to have a sub 1kWh derate). 3kWh is 12 miles, so I wonder whether the EPA range of 238 miles is based on a 57kWh battery capacity or not.

[@yunodiewtf]

With Li-Ion being considered dead when it hits 80% capacity it's actually at 56.5% of its usable life and with quick maffs you've gone through approximately 595 cycles and your battery will hit the EOL at 1053 cycles or about 213000 miles which is a pretty good mark if the degradation goes linearly. I see the vid is from 3 years ago so I'm very curious if my math made any sense.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Considered dead is an interesting way of measuring it, though I don't know that that would be considered the actual end of life for many EV owners. A lot of Nissan LEAF drivers kept their cars until ~60% of the original capacity. That being said, unfortunately, GM threw a wrench in the calculations because I had my battery replaced for no cost under recall at ~160,000 miles. I did do a capacity test just prior to that, and the usable energy was largely unchanged. Depending on whether that ~2 kWh missing was simply due to software programming, the battery had lost somewhere between 8% and 10% of its usable capacity at 160k miles. I believe your numbers are based on the worst-case-scenario degradation, so it would have been 10% or ~50% of the usable life. I do recall calculating at the time that the original battery would have hit ~80% of the original capacity at ~300,000 miles using that worst-case degradation model. It's also worth noting that a majority of the degradation appears to have occurred in my first year of ownership, where I was charging to 100% nearly every day and it was sitting at 100% battery for long periods.

[@yunodiewtf]

@@newscoulomb3705 80% is just an industry standard for safety and general usability metric. My phone battery is at 65% capacity and is working "fine" but usability is obviously impacted and fast charging severely limited. BTW do you have any bad Bolt battey modules laying around? I saw sections are only cooled from below, wondering does top metal have any decent thermal contact with the cells? If yes I'd like to try and add another layer of coldplates from the top to improve cooling.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@yunodiewtf Sure. I'm just saying that the car can still be usable after. The 80% degradation was primarily to standardize cell testing, so people could make apples-to-apples comparisons. However, for some reason, people started using it synonymously with primary use cell life. I didn't get to keep the original battery under replacement. Part of the deal was, it was shipped back. But yes, the cells are only cooled through the bottom with a chill plate. Some people have erroneously claimed that that was the limitation on charging speeds, but in actuality, it's a combination of the charging harness being limited to 150 A and the thickness of the cell electrodes. Regardless of cooling, the cells used in the Bolt EV are rated from factory for a maximum 1 C charging rate. A couple of automakers pushed these cells to ~1.1 C, but those EVs also appear to suffer from faster battery degradation.

[@dz1sfb]

The GM update to the Bolt put a restriction from charging to 100% capacity down to 90% to mitigate the risk of fire for suspect batteries. That makes your degradation even less. Kudos! I have been considering one.

[@MuchWowNature]

Hey man , thank you very much for the video I bet all of your watchers(and potentially brining you a ton of more watchers) would be even more interested in the total amount of repairs and maintenance breakdown for these 120 000 miles you drove the car , so they can get the total cost of ownership (maybe thrown in the monthly insurance cost info)

[@brentstarkes9682]

I just put my money down on a Bolt… you certainly helped make the decision.

[@Angel-xh5pq]

I saw a video on KZbin, on a chevy Bolt battery tear down where they battery was actually around 57Kwh, plus if gm has some sort of reserve battery that would mean the degradation could be less than 5% after 120k miles which is actually really good

[@bryancurry1898]

I just watched your video (I know, a year late). I have a ‘19 Bolt with 136,000 miles, that is in the body shop (not my fault!). When it comes out, I will be taking it in for my recall battery. I didn’t test the original battery when it was new, but I will certainly do so with the new one. I’m thinking about doing for the old one, too, just out of curiosity. Subjectively, it has seen like there hasn’t been much degradation, just based on how it chargers and how it does on road trips. I think that 5-9% falls into that range and is less than what I had expected. Thanks for the video!

[@newscoulomb3705]

You're welcome! I'm supposed to be getting my new battery soon, but I'll do an update on the 150,000 mile degradation before the replacement.

[@blackterminal]

How often have you run the battery low and used fast charging?

[@newscoulomb3705]

I haven't really kept track, but it's probably been hundreds of times. For some longer trips, every DC charging session was started at below 10%.

[@tonymiles89]

Really excellent review. The best I’ve seen and seen multiple videos

[@mikecarter2737]

Great news! One less thing to worry about. We only lease BEVs, like most, so battery degradation has not been an issue on the 3 we have had. With your miles driven, I can see why buying is the only option.

[@mychevysparkevdidntcatchfi1489]

Even leased, one would have to concern about fast charge rate. Pre-2019 Bolt is slower with step downs at 55% and 70%. But unlike Leaf that drops "fast charge" as low as 3 kW using 50 kW charger on hot days, Bolt's keeps 55 kW to 55% even in hottest summer days.

[@peterwright837]

I tried this today with my 2020 Bolt which I’ve owned for 3 months and 2500 miles. I drove it down to 1% and calculated my usable battery capacity to be ~64kWh. Is the entire stated capacity of 66kWh supposed to be usable? If so I have 3% degradation already which doesn’t seem right. For those interested in the details I got 232 miles of range of which all but ~5 miles was driven on the freeway at 70mph. My efficiency was 3.64 miles/kWh. The outside temperature was low to mid 80’s, and I had the AC set on auto at 73 degrees, which consumed about 3% of the energy.

[@tomle6766]

This is not a perfect test. This test will only give you the usable capacity and not the actual capacity. The test doesn’t take into account any capacity that might be locked away by GM. Plus 0% SOC is not the end. When I did the test with my 2018 Bolt, I was able to go beyond 0% SOC for another 2kwh before the car stopped. Looking at your numbers, I think they’re quite normal. Enjoy your car.

[@KTPurdy]

Capacity is easily affected by temperature. Also, batteries will degrade the most in the first few months than flatten out.

[@johnnyboyyyyy]

I’m considering going EV with the Bolt in a couple weeks. The range, almost non-existent maintenance, and low price for a used one, all drew me in. Tired of oil changes and paying at the pump.

[@royamberg9177]

I have a 2012 volt. Couldn't see much degrading untill I got a recall to reprogram computer. I think it was to prevent the battery from going to low to start the gas engine. Then I lost nearly a kw of power.

[@kevinmitchell3168]

Is it really necessary to charge it fully and drain it? How accurate is the range meter? Doesn't the vehicle adjust it's range estimate to account for battery degradation?

[@newscoulomb3705]

If you want to get a full capacity reading you have to start at 100%. Most of the energy usage calculations are algorithms based on cell voltage, so calculating remaining energy is really difficult without draining the cells to a very low point. I've seen too large of a standard deviation between estimated capacities when calculating at a higher battery percentage to trust those estimates.

[@slam854]

This is a helpful formula. My new Bolt named Mutt is garaged while driveway is getting replaced. It had a 90% charge on it so in the cold I cranked heater to 80f for a few nights/mornings and listened to the radio. I am around 60% now and will let it sit until driveway is done. Might be a month.

[@arenjay3278]

Given the pack is noted as 57 kWh and elsewhere is noted as a real 60+ kWh. In the Ampera E documentation. 62 or 64 kWh. Battery with a useable 60 kWh and a min 57 kWh. Depends on temperature and other things. This would explain the 100% plus that extra bit that you get when charging to 100%. 50% limit is always 2% to 3% less than half of the 100% limit.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I'm measuring my degradation based on tracking the displayed data for this pack over time. GM provided an explanation for the difference between LG's sticker and GM's rating (57 kWh versus 60 kWh), and it was essentially that they used different testing techniques/parameters. From an owner's perspective, GM's measurement is what counts because it is what was displayed. As for the various sizes, 2017 to 2019 had 60 kWh packs. Late model 2019 had 62 kWh packs. 2020 and later had 64 kWh packs.

[@arenjay3278]

@@newscoulomb3705 you should test it against a known measure that you had in 2017.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@arenjay3278 Yes, that's what I did. The only wrench in that is that, in tracking the data, there was an immediate, consistent drop of 2 kWh of available energy following the battery reprogramming update that GM did. It doesn't appear to be actual energy lost, but rather an adjustment to how GM was calculating energy (possibly bringing it inline with LG's original 57 kWh estimate).

[@blindponyband]

I wonder if some dealers have a 7 day return policy or something like that where you could buy the car, take a trip and calculate battery life and also determine if there are any bad cells. I still wonder if they guy from Weber Auto is right in saying, "get a version 2 battery." to avoid the problem you alluded to coming from bad cells in version 1 batteries. And are all 2018's and after "version 2?"

[@newscoulomb3705]

If you test the car and find that it has bad cells, you can just have them replaced under warranty. The bad cells I was alluding to were version 2 batteries. To my knowledge, no version 1 batteries had that issue.

[@lesizmor9079]

@@newscoulomb3705 OOOPS! I sure hope you meant to say "bad cells in version 1 batteries". The V2 batts came out late in the 2017 model year, and those bad cells are exactly why they changed to the new type. This info is from a Master Mechanic who now teaches at a mechanic school (has videos on YT). And to Kent's question--- yes all 2018 and later are Type 2 batts. And the '17s from VIN# xxxxxxxxxH4163254 and later are the Type 2. There is a small white sticker on the back edge of the battery pack that will say "Type 2" or "Type II".

[@newscoulomb3705]

​@@lesizmor9079 No, I spoke correctly based on my understanding. According to Professor John Kelly of Weber State University (the person I think you're referring to), his early 2017 MY Bolt EV had the V2 battery. The issue wasn't with the battery build or design; it was with the QC process. Bad cells/modules were slipping through QC and making it into customer vehicles. GM/LG fixed the QC process without changing the battery format as far as I know. Also, I know of no Bolt EVs made prior to 2017 had that battery cell/module issue (all V1 batteries).

[@paniniman6524]

You seem to be overspeeding like crazy! Anyway great video!

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks! I typically go ~5 mph over the posted speed limit just to keep up with traffic, but also, with these new tires, the speedometer is actually off by 1 to 2 mph, so I'm really only going 73 mph in a 70 mph zone.

[@paniniman6524]

@@newscoulomb3705 lmao I was joking about the time lapse! Dont worry

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@paniniman6524 Oh, okay! Haha! Some people have mentioned the 55 mph trailer speed limit, so I wasn't sure. 🙂 But yes, time lapse breaks all kinds of speed laws! 😀

[@scottkolaya2110]

When you say it was 60kWh when it was new, did you use the same method for measuring that 60kWh? For example, using that same measurement method for my '17 when it was new, I only measured 58.7kWh (before any software updates). I just measured it the other day the same way and got 58.5kWh. Although I only have 20,000 miles.

[@mikegracz6987]

Good work, hero! The math can be even simpler than you show in the video, and you can work it so you can do it easily in your head while driving. Watch the green bars on the indicator to the left of the speedometer reading and have "kWh Used" (since last full charge) displayed on your screen. Just as a green bar blinks down to 50%, double the value shown for "kWh Used" on the screen. Don't get too distracted and crash, though, OK!? And, be sure that there were no partial charges since the last full charge. [The details: The math boils down to dividing the value shown on your car's screen for "kWh Used" by 1 minus the decimal value for the percent capacity remaining. Therefore, if the screen reads 30.0 kWh Used when the indicator blinks to 50%, 30.0 divided by 0.5, is the same thing as 30 divided by 1/2, which is the same as 30 times 2. Therefore, the screen in this example is saying you have 60 kWh of (usable) capacity. (1 minus 50% = 0.5.). If you are a whiz, you can do it when the bars blink to other percentages too. 75% is another easy one- multiply by 4 (1 minus 0.75 = 0.25 or 1/4). However, the more kWh used, the more accurate the reading is likely to be. 50% might be the best trade-off between accuracy, ease, and frequency of occurrence. Remember your grade school math- to divide by a fraction: invert and multiply. I'm a science guy, apologies for the math lesson digression... TorquePro readings show that the bars blink to the next lowest 5% level right at the limit- no rounding. So when a bar blinks to show 50%, that's what you have right then. If it blinked a minute ago you have somewhere between 45 and 50% remaining.] However, I am now really curious about these capacity calculations. Either they are in error, because the car doesn't report what it actually has, TorquePro PID calculations are in error, or GM is telling me I have LESS capacity than I actually do (OK by me!). I posted about this on the Chevy Bolt EV .org forum (and you kindly responded), but since then the plot thickens a little, because I have received the "build sheet" for my car from GM. For readers here: my calculations showed that I likely have the 66 kWh battery in my late 2019 Bolt (built June 10th 2019, purchased August 28th, 2019, about 8500 miles on it). The 66kWh battery wasn't advertised until the 2020 model year, GM advertised the 60kWh battery for 2019. The sticker just says it is powered by a Li-ion battery. We don't have any fancy chargers in my area of Alaska- ones that show remaining capacity, so I dove in and used values given by the TorquePro app to get battery capacity values of 68.6 and 67.6 kWh on two long trips I took recently. As you know, but readers here may not, the app, with some persuasion, calculates values from parameter identification codes (PIDs) transmitted to your phone or tablet from a bluetooth dongle that plugs into the car's onboard data (OBDII) port. (total cost about $25 and some head-scratching time)... However, the reading given by the green bars in 5% chunks is less than the values in TorquePro for "State of Charge HD Raw". (which is what I used to calculate a total battery capacity of more than 67 kWh on those two trips). I assume that "SoC HD Raw" is the total battery capacity, but the car will never let you use all of that capacity. (Which is a good thing. If you ran the battery down to zero it would never charge back up again, so it is good that the software managing the battery holds a little in reserve.) However, TorquePro also gives a precise value for "Battery % DIC"- which I assume is the exact value for the one shown by the green bars in 5% blocks to the left of the speedometer reading, in Chevy's "Driver Information Center" (DIC). That "Batt % DIC" value in TorquePro is about 4% lower than the value given for "SoC HD Raw". In model years before 2019, TorquePro will give an actual Estimate of Battery Capacity, but for a 2019 model, the value displayed is always -8.6 kWh. (I am interested in reasons why you don't use TorquePro to estimate degradation? Have you found that the values the charger communicates are different from the PID calculations displayed in the app?) When I instead used the lower value for "Batt % DIC" in TorquePro to calculate battery capacity for the two trips (both over 230 miles from full, without charging on the way), I got 64.5 and 65.5 kWh, which would be in the neighborhood of what I would get using the "double the value" method described above. So if readers get a value a kWh or so lower than their stated capacity, rest assured, your actual total capacity is probably a bit higher. Remember that battery capacity varies based on other things too, especially temperature and recent use, so it's not a fixed constant. It's a nominal capacity- a named capacity- actual usable capacity will vary. Tracking this variation using the easy "double the value" method might be an interesting thing to do for those so inclined. You'd get a lot of nerd food, er, data. (Mwaahaahaa!!). Make sure that the kWh Used reported on the car's screen since the Last Full Charge doesn't include any partial charges since the last full charge. Finally, the build sheet from GM reports that my 2019 Bolt has 60 kWh pack installed. Either the TorquePro numbers for "State of Charge HD Raw" or "Battery % DIC" (which agree with the DIC readings on the car) are in error- seems unlikely; or the build sheet is wrong, which also seems unlikely, but maybe less so? The range I am achieving sure seems to suggest I have the larger pack (235.1 miles once with 21% remaining). Incidentally, the build sheet is generated from the vehicle's VIN- it shows a lot of interesting stuff. Get this sheet free from GM by emailing your VIN to [e-mail] and asking for it. I got the .pdf the next day. Thanks, you are really helping! Keep up the good work!

[@TheSafthecktor]

Is it the year or milage that makes batteries degrade

[@newscoulomb3705]

It's typically both. Any cycling of the battery will cause it to lose capacity, and over time, batteries will start to degrade naturally. The rate of that degradation is dictated by how the battery is cycled (how deeply and how rapidly) and the conditions in which the battery is stored (state of charge SOC and temperature).

[@UncleBensChannel]

I bought a used 2020 with 31K miles, GM replaced the battery 3 weeks later, at no charge.

[@barryw9473]

Thanks. I am impressed. Chevy got its sums right. If only the Bolt could charge at 100 kW. Maybe the new GM BEVs will support higher charge rates.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I think that's the plan. The Bolt EV's design predates even 150 A public chargers, so GM will probably rethink the design.

[@gery4870]

Not too bad at all man ! It would be interesting to know is the percentage of DC charge of your Bolt EV !! Thanks so much for sharing this data !!!

[@newscoulomb3705]

You're welcome! If I had to guess, about a quarter of my charging was done on DCFC.

[@gery4870]

@@newscoulomb3705 Thanks so much for the answer ! Greetings from Barcelona !

[@daves1646]

A question: What percent of charging would you estimate you have done as DC-fast vs Level 2 AC? Thanks for the way to baseline and track my EV’s current total available capacity!!

[@newscoulomb3705]

You're welcome! I DC fast charge a lot, but it's still probably a low percentage of miles. I'd guess that about 75% of my charging has been L2 AC, and only about 25% has been on DCFC.

[@Tarek_ElMaddah]

I had a 2018 Honda Clarity PHEV. After 211,000 Km (131,000 miles). The battery gave me 65 km (40 miles) out of 76 km (47 miles) nameplate capacity. That’s about 85% (15 % loss). Not bad.

[@mikes8280]

Does the battery management keep track of battery capacity to calculate expected range? Or do they always use the 58KWh capacity?

[@newscoulomb3705]

I think it's based on estimated capacity (pack voltage).

[@coalheatman]

Hello there, what obd2 Bluetooth adapter are you using?

[@frederickwalker4450]

According to John Kelly at Weber State Univ., the battery was designed to store 57.9 kWh (288 cells at 0.0201 kWh each). For advertising, it is nominally rated at 60 kWh. Do you find it does not matter which value you use as long as you are consistent? Should every new Bolt buyer do a “measurement” soon after purchase to see “where they start”?

[@newscoulomb3705]

Professor Kelly was basing that partly on the battery sticker. According to GM, there are several ways to measure the actual capacity. I do recommend that Bolt EV owners (really any EV owners) do this early on, as this is also an effective way to determine whether you have any bad cells that should be replaced under warranty.

[@Saul117]

Any update how many miles does it have now ???

[@rgbcolor6450]

Do you know how many times you have charged the battery? I used 120,000 divided by 200 miles per charge to come up with 600 charges. Is that about correct?

[@newscoulomb3705]

That's probably close. In terms of DC fast charging, though, I'm typically only doing a 60-70% charge, so the number of "charges" is a bit higher. Also, I average a lot more than 200 miles per full charge, so it's probably closer to 500 to 550 full cycles.

[@rgbcolor6450]

@@newscoulomb3705 Interesting. I'm wondering how many more charges you'll get from that battery before it no longer becomes worth it. You documenting your progress is fascinating and so educational. Thank you, and keep it up!

[@mondotv4216]

Just to be clear je was reading the kWh off the cars meter, not the charger. Right? Because the charger would only be between, 90% and 95% efficient.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Yes, this is based on the car's usage screen. Beyond the charger inefficiencies, the Bolt EV will draw additional power from the charger to run battery and cabin conditioning.

[@ronb4633]

Nice examination Eric, did you do a similar test back when you got the car? I understand they may have changed the limit of usable with the software update, but curious if you tested early on.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks! Yes, I took these same measurements early on (basically, the life of the car).

[@bronzevampire]

Thanks for the info Eric

[@lw216316]

local dealer has 2017 Bolt for $17,000 with 25k miles. Is that price too high ?

[@ab-tf5fl]

I'm imagining a future where lots of EVs that are 5/10/15 years old are available on the used car market and perspective buyers want to know the actual range of the vehicle they are purchasing. Expecting sellers to allow buyers to take the car on a 200-mile test drive is unreasonable, as is expecting buyers to have the time on their hands to actually drive it that far. Instead, I imagine the way this would work to be sellers taking the car to a diagnostic lab that charges and discharges the battery in a controlled environment, without actually driving the car. If the "seller" is a car dealer, this would be something they do themselves in their own service department. Then, they simply make a digital the certified range report available to perspective buyers. Of course, by this time, the charging infrastructure will be much better than it is today, which makes a few kWh far less consequential. But buyers will still want to know that they're not buying a lemon with 40% less-than-expected battery capacity, and I can see a certified diagnostic test giving buyers that peace of mind necessary to make the purchase.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Yes, I could definitely see used EV dealerships providing a battery capacity rating in the future. Range is a tricky subject because that depends too much on conditions and driving styles. Instead, the focus should be on capacity. What was it when new, and what is it now?

[@ab-tf5fl]

@@newscoulomb3705 Good point. Actual range is too variable to meaningfully measure. But battery capacity is much more objective.

[@Catman1798]

And how many lunches during those miles??? Is what I wanna know LOL 😂. Amazing he didn’t say I’m gonna go have lunch in this video.

[@newscoulomb3705]

There's a lot to do other than eat on trips. I typically only have one meal on the road during 8 hours of driving.

[@htiek30120]

Very helpful video. What have your maintenance and repair cost been over the years? I'm trying to put together a cost to own analysis since Edmunds doesn't have anything for the Bolt.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I'd have to tally everything up, but so far, it's been less than $2,000, including two sets of tires and a windshield replacement. Other than a few sets of wiper blades, wiper fluid, and cabin air filters, there hasn't been any maintenance.

[@odanelnunezlopez9138]

I let my 2019 Chevrolet Bolt run out battery yesterday so the charger would tell me how many kwhs it's currently taking in, it's battery has never been changed and it won't let me charge past 95% since that's the maximum charging target the car's software accepts. It's about to complete its charging and the charger tells me it has put 54 kwhs into the car's battery, I don't know how many kwhs the last 5% percent I'm unable to charge represents but, I would really like to know what the usable battery capacity for the original battery is. Do you know that?

[@newscoulomb3705]

The original had a usable capacity of about 60 kWh, but the released an update that reduced that to about 58 kWh. At some point in the year, the 2019 received a slightly larger 62 kWh pack.

[@wunderkind56]

Have you seen Professor John Kelly's teardown of a 2017 Bolt battery on the WeberAuto channel. He makes a pretty compelling case that the battery capacity is effectively 57 Kwh. In the video discussion someone states that the cells are charged to 4.1 volts. However if the cells were charged to their max rating of 4.2 then the battery would be 60 Kwh. Is this possibly why the degradation is low because of a built in 5% cushion for those who charge to 100% often?

[@newscoulomb3705]

This is a different take explained from GM's perspective: electricrevs.com/2018/03/29/gm-explains-57-vs-60-kwh-bolt-ev-battery-ratings/

[@theglamorousdon1254]

I have recently been contemplating on buying a 2017 bolt ev lt with 33k miles I currently live in an apartment downstairs so I will be able to charge at my home sometimes but I will mostly use an ev go charging station do you think the car will be in good conditions for a while under those charging conditions??

[@newscoulomb3705]

Hey, yes, I think it should be fine. People worry too much about the impact of DC fast charging, but it really isn't a big deal. The thing to remember is that it will be a little more expensive and a little less convenient than if you can charge up at home or work every day. Things worked out for me because I had charging at work, and the local EVgo is right next to a grocery store where I shopped regularly. Even with out that, if you only drive a 30 to 40 miles a day, you should be fine.

[@theglamorousdon1254]

@@newscoulomb3705 I drive about 80 something miles a day, I’m use to spending 30 to 40 dollars on gas a week so that’s no problem, I was told using an ev go station once a week will be about the same. I want an electric car I just don’t want to have to worry about getting a new car in 2 years or worry about fixing something on the car every other month. Since I will be paying monthly .

[@tommckinney1489]

Nice video. I think a 5-10% degradation for 120K miles is not that bad. I assume a high % of your charges are DCFC. Do you think that influences battery degradation?

[@newscoulomb3705]

I'm sure DCFC has some influence, but I think it's mostly a result of cycles.

[@tai9499]

Could you use the range displayed on the dash as a measure of degradation? I noticed on full charge mine just goes to 223 instead of 238 like it used to

[@newscoulomb3705]

No, the Range Estimator is based on current conditions and recent driving, so you can't use it for tracking battery capacity.

[@Rustyrailhead]

Seems like you could go several hundreds of thousands of miles on the battery.It would be hard to ask someone to take their car for a few days to see how much live is left in the battery. I am guessing by your 120,000 and a 4+ % is a good jumping point in thinking what might be left in a battery.

[@KTPurdy]

We all need to take special note that the Nissan Leaf offers battery capacity markers on the dash as well as API's for the LeafSpy (android) to give you exact readings (capacity, resistance, and much more). Having said that, I have a Bolt because the Leaf doesn't do well in heat (passive cooling) and overall I think that GM has better engineering. I wish that government regulations mandated that every automaker provide the battery health transparency that Nissan does. This level of detail also arms the shopper to feel confident when buying a used Leaf.

[@chadrah2525]

Hey Eric, if my maximum efficiency stated on my bolt is 51.1, (coasted down the grade to Bakersfield) does this equate to the batteries capacity ?

[@markmcintosh7095]

I enjoy your channel. Thank you

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks!

[@pedinomefaux]

Thank you so much for this tip.

[@newscoulomb3705]

You're welcome!

[@colbyanderson1910]

Question for you - how accurate do you think the Electrify America charger battery percentage read-outs are? I’ve done this twice with my 2019 Bolt (though only down to about ~27% SOC) and when I run this calculation it gives me a theoretical capacity Of OVER 60kWh (like 63-65kWh). 46.8kWh/73%=64.1kWh? That shouldn’t be possible with a 2019, so I figure my math is wrong or the percentage I’m using is wrong...? Any thoughts?

[@thelondonbroiler]

I have a 2019 also. On my first capacity calculation, I used ~60kwh using ~90% of the available energy. This led me to deduce that LG/GM had actually increased energy density/capacity, but did not tout it until the 2020 model year. To further support a (unannounced) change being made, the parameter ID for estimated battery capacity on the canbus, either was changed itself, or the formula was changed, because it is jibberish compared to the working formula used to calculate 2017/2018 Bolts (Spark EVs and Volts as well).

[@USCTrojansOwn]

Where did you get the rims for your BOLT?

[@newscoulomb3705]

They are from the Chevy Cruze ECO. You can find them around for pretty cheap from time to time.

[@MrBlack-pf5ye]

It cost me $330 (drove little over 12000 miles) to charge my car for a years worth of driving… if that’s not convincing enough I don’t know what is!

[@adithyaramachandran7427]

I'm glad that the Bolt is holding up well. How often did you have to get it serviced ?

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks! It hasn't been in for servicing.

[@coded1gaming989]

Literally, other than rotating the tires, the only item the manual asks for to service is radiator fluid change, at 150k miles lol

[@mychevysparkevdidntcatchfi1489]

@@coded1gaming989 Isn't there brake fluid change? I think 90K or 6 years?

[@thelondonbroiler]

A bit strange, brake fluid is on the maintenance schedule, but no interval is provided. i.imgur.com/cOiEYXI.png

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@thelondonbroiler It's part of the basic brake inspection, I believe. So I'm guessing it's just a visual confirmation of fluid levels.

[@OMAR-vu4hw]

@News Coulomb. I'm a happy owner of Bolt EV and I'm planning on making a trip to Sacramento from LA. Have you ever tried going up there using the scenic route (fwy 101 and / or fwy 1)? If so, how was if?

[@newscoulomb3705]

Congrats! Yes, I drive that route a decent amount of the time. For a trip to Sacramento, you're really going out of your way. Highway 101 adds about an hour and a half, and Highway 1 adds another hour or so on top of that. Otherwise, it's one of the nicest drives you can do. You should be able to make it to San Luis Obispo on a single charge, and if you charge up to 80-85%, you should have no issue taking Highway 1 up through Monterrey.

[@PacificBlue51]

How many miles on it now?

[@hookilledtobymilder]

Curious how much degradation depends on age of battery vs how many charge cycles. Since still a pretty new car age wise

[@MrKeke2502]

That method wouldn't work with some EVs such as the Leaf because the BMS report 0% on the dashboard and to the charger when there is 10% of battery left. Same on the I-MiEV, but it's reported correctly on the charger.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Good point. I should have mentioned that I've cross referenced the number on the DCFC with several apps that connect directly to the car, and they all report the same number.

[@mcamodell]

I have identical usable capacity at 32k miles. GM took at least 3kWh in that update.

[@TheTuttleCrew]

So how many miles would it go on a full charge when new?????

[@newscoulomb3705]

That depends on conditions. All freeway speeds: about 200-210 miles. Mixed driving: about 250 miles. All city driving: about 300 miles. But winter affects each of those differently.

[@TheTuttleCrew]

@@newscoulomb3705 Thank you!

[@DavidDrivesElectric]

Great video!

[@josepha.p.2639]

This is my guess and I am not an EV owner yet. After original Nissan Leaf lesson (which allowed true 100% charging and caused enormous battery degradation), EV manufacturers have limited how much you can charge. So 100% means you may only be charging up to 57 out of 60. Ford Mach-E has 98kwh capacity, but for users 100% means 88kwh.

[@wolfgangwilms6766]

After 3 years and 165,000KM (102,526MI) with the German Bolt (Ampera-e) I am at 58kWh. the Ampera-e will probably start with 62kWh, i.e. 4kWh loss. The display also fluctuates around 1 ~ 1.5kWh in winter.

[@michaellipmanphotography4084]

at 0.58 seconds you show a filled battery with 198 miles on the gauge which is exactly 94 per cent capacity of 232 miles.

[@mychevysparkevdidntcatchfi1489]

Did you actually test when it was new? My Bolt had 57.5 kWh when new (about 2000 miles on odo), now has 54.3 kWh (about 16K miles on odo). That's 94% or 0.23Wh/Mi. But if I assumed 60 kWh when new, it'd be 91%. Mine is projected to be only 30 kWh at 120K miles if trend is linear, and I rarely fast charge, always keep it between 30% and 80%. I hope the trend is not linear.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I did measure at the beginning. It was right around 60 kWh. I had a couple of blips to 61-62 kWh very early, but those measurements fall within the margin of error of +/- ~1 kWh.

[@billybeemus3929]

I have a 2020 Bolt. If I saw the kind of degradation you are already seeing, I would take it to the dealer and have them check it. For no other reason than to start making a case to have the battery replaced under warranty down the road.

[@jonathancappellini2961]

Degradation isn’t linear. It slows down over time.

[@myphonyaccount]

All electronics come from the factory 50% charged for battery storage stability during transit, warehousing, etc. Same should be maintained at home between a 30-70% range and it will last much longer than expected.

[@timcampbell5873]

Another great video. Is there any chance that degradation is related more to time than it is to mileage or charging cycles?

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks! I think the degradation is mostly a result of deep cycles.

[@timcampbell5873]

@@newscoulomb3705 What effect does discharge rate have?

[@kman0074]

Doesn’t the computer just tell you? My Tesla has 10% degradation like your bolt but the max charge range just shows the lower max number? Or does the range just vanish faster on the gauge in the bolt.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Tesla displays a fixed range based on EPA efficiency and the calculated capacity. GM uses a variable range estimator based on current conditions and recent driving, so there's no way to use it to gauge estimated capacity in the same way you can in a Tesla.

[@chrisw443]

Cool video. Ranger update video? lol. My kia is 4 years old and still around 99% battery.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks! The Ranger Update is coming soon. 😁

[@shankly7]

Probably not super accurate, but in the Tesla app you can set the car to charge to 100% and it will show how many miles that will be. Just an FYI for Tesla people.

[@bobcatt2294]

If you ARE relying upon the meter reading of 10% of battery life as being accurate and therefore establishing the bases of this test (establishing the floor), how is that consistent with not relying on the same meter to read back accurately at higher levels? In other words, the meter may not be accurate at higher levels but most likely accurate at or around 10%. I would think the better way is to wait until the system shuts down in protecting itself (setting the floor), then proceed. The 10 percent left may also be inaccurate.

[@newscoulomb3705]

It has more to do with how the battery level affects the accuracy. If over 75% SOC, the accuracy is +/- 8 kWh, over 50% SOC the accuracy is +/- 5 kWh, and over 25% SOC the accuracy is +/- 2 kWh, you're really just narrowing down to what is most precise. Sure, you could go to 5% or even dead (hard to do and potentially dangerous in real-world driving) you're gaining a precision of less than +/- 0.5 kWh. Essentially, anything from 5% to 15% SOC is "good enough" for a fairly precise measurement.

[@bobcatt2294]

@@newscoulomb3705 I still maintain, how do we know if 5 or 10 percent is accurate while you state that higher meter readings may not be.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@bobcatt2294 Because I've seen the discrepancy. Others have noted it as well across multiple different EVs. Bjorn Nyland has also called it out, and his data matches my data over time. Anything over 25% SOC, and I lose confidence in the accuracy and precision of the test.

[@bobcatt2294]

@@newscoulomb3705 I understand the problem, my question is it not better to test when power plant safety shuts-down the vehicle. Then use that as you starting point - not the so called, 5 or 10 percent on the readout.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@bobcatt2294 I suppose it depends on the purpose. If I bought the vehicle solely a test vehicle to validate data already provided by the battery manufacturer, then sure. However, because I bought the vehicle for personal use and my intent is to use it as an average consumer in my circumstances, cycling the battery down to 0% SOC would add unnecessary (and unrealistic) stress and wear to the battery.

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

Good numbers

[@Icayn]

This is insane, and keep in mind the battery is the weakest link; the motor will go a million miles! At this rate bolts are going to make Toyota 4runners look like dodge neons in longevity.

[@newscoulomb3705]

As far as I know, my Bolt EV has seen the most degradation (I'm very hard on the battery).

[@stephenanderson812]

I have a. 2000. Dodge Neon with 286000 miles on it.No major repair.

[@Icayn]

@@stephenanderson812 That is very impressive.

[@Rice2G]

How much is it to replace

[@newscoulomb3705]

I'm not up on current pricing. I believe the pack replacement is about $5,000, and I would add at least 50% to that cost for labor.

[@aihf3063]

I have 2017 bolt and every time I charge it doesn’t go near 180, it has 107,000 miles

[@drdon196]

Purchase a 2018 Bolt and now a whinny noise when in drive or reverse and a decrease in range a good 40 miles

[@and1shoes178]

Do u get a squeaking sound?

[@newscoulomb3705]

From what?

[@and1shoes178]

@@newscoulomb3705 from pushing acceleration n brakes sometimes. It's loud screechy sound

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@and1shoes178 I've never had that, but it sounds vaguely familiar (something like a bushing or CV joint). I believe it is a known warranty issue.

[@williamerazo3921]

Can you just buy a new section of the battery pack

[@scottxiong5844]

I have to say this can be hard for those who want a used EV and want to quantify the capacity of that EV's battery. Hope we have a easier way in the future, but for now this method is sound.

[@jjackson3240]

I would have to guess a dealer would have a discharge device just for this reason. It would be interesting to call around to see if they do. On the other hand, maybe most used EV's won't be bought through dealers.

[@evingmadeez5008]

Great info.. thx

[@newscoulomb3705]

You're welcome!

[@davidsixtwo]

Very helpful!

[@Slaize]

Should have compared your method to what the app scan says.

[@dademujohn]

thanks dude

[@BryceLovesTech]

120000 on those seats ouch. I would put a foam wedge down

[@newscoulomb3705]

I never had a problem with the seats. In fact, the seats and seating position in my Bolt EV corrected an issue I was having with my back. I didn't know the Bolt EV's seats were uncomfortable until six months into ownership when a Tesla Model S owner told me they were. 😂

[@MendicantBias1]

It's easy to check battery degradation: Just weigh the car, but be sure to use British pounds instead of metric pounds. The British pounds are more accurate.

[@mekj2008]

how does it affect the weight? can you explain more?

[@thelondonbroiler]

From the GM warranty manual: "Depending on use, the battery may degrade as little as 10% to as much as 40% capacity over the warranty period." i.imgur.com/roVYMBn.jpg You should contact GM to find out what prize you've won 😄

[@newscoulomb3705]

Hahaha! Mary, I made it to the finish line! :-)