Leaf EV vs Bolt EV - Expected Li-Ion Battery Life

See what the 2018 Leaf owner's manual tells us about Li-Ion battery life.
CORRECTION:
I was wrong, there is no airflow through the battery from the passenger compartment. According to the owner's manual, the climate control system can come on while charging, but it does not say why. Maybe it is because the battery gets too hot and heats up the passenger compartment. The Leaf battery is inside a sealed housing under the vehicle. See my Leaf battery video here • 2011 Nissan LEAF Batte...
TIMELINE:
0:00 Introduction
0:12 Thermal Management of Bolt and Volt batteries
0:33 The battery life of previous Volt batteries
1:00 2018 Nissan Leaf battery disappointment
1:40 MUST-SEE: Page EV-20 of the 2018 Nissan Leaf owner's manual
2:00 MUST-SEE: Factors that affect the Leaf's battery life
4:55 Factors that affect the Bolt's battery life
6:55 Video summary
ABOUT US
Weber State University (WSU) Davis Campus - Automotive Technology Department - Advanced Vehicles Lab. This video compares the expected battery life of the 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV to the 2018 Nissan Leaf EV. Nissan's own owner's manual lists the ways you can extend the battery life of its 2018 Leaf. You may want to read page EV-20 of the owner's manual of the 2018 Nissan Leaf before considering buying one.
W.S.U is a leader in Hybrid and Electric Vehicle education. This topic is taught as part of our 4-year bachelor's degree program. For information on joining the Weber Automotive program, visit: www.weber.edu/automotive
This video was created and edited by Professor John D. Kelly at WSU. For a full biography, see www.weber.edu/automotive/J_Kel...
Visit my other youtube channel / vibratesoftware to see the amazing NVH app for vibration diagnosis!
ADDITIONAL TRAINING FOR YOU
Join us for hybrid and electric vehicle training with two online courses and in a 5-day on-campus boot camp with Professor John D. Kelly. See www.weber.edu/evtraining
QUESTIONS FOR TEACHERS:
1. Does the Nissan Leaf battery use a liquid cooling and heating system?
2. What warnings are in the Leaf owner's manual regarding heat and battery life?
3. What limitations are there regarding the use of the fast charge option on the Nissan Leaf?
DONATE TO OUR DEPARTMENT
Please consider a donation to the Department of Automotive Technology at Weber State University here: advancement.weber.edu/Automotive

[@WeberAuto]

Correction: I was wrong, there is no airflow through the battery from the passenger compartment. According to the owner's manual, the climate control system can come on while charging, but it does not say why. Maybe it is because the battery gets too hot and heats up the passenger compartment. The Leaf battery is inside a sealed housing under the vehicle. See my Leaf battery video here kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIq0e5SqjNV1jrs

[@The8BitGuy]

Can you be more specific about the cooling of the Nissan Leaf battery? On the original model, there was no cooling at all, even from the cabin. I have yet to hear any confirmation that cabin air is used to cool the battery on the new version. If so, that is at least somewhat of an improvement even if it is still lacking compared to GM's setup. The Toyota Prius Prime is also air-cooled from the cabin. I wonder how it's battery life will be.

[@WeberAuto]

I was wrong, there is no air flow through the battery from the passenger compartment. According to the owner's manual, the climate control system can come on while charging, but it does not say why. Maybe it is because the battery gets too hot and heats up the passenger compartment. The Leaf battery is sealed just just like the Chevrolet Bolt battery (which is even a worse scenario for Nissan). Thanks for your feedback!

[@TechnologyJunkie]

IMHO Nissan is not doing the engineering needed to make a robust EV fit for use by the average consumer. I had to laugh when I read the section about keeping the vehicle out of direct sunlight. It's a car, not a cell phone, it lives it's life outside and can be expected to sit for hours on cold and sunny days at commuter parking lots. Epic fail for Nissan, they need to do better.

[@OnlineAutoRepairVideos]

The 8-Bit Guy, I was curious about your channel and decided to watch a few videos. I saw the 200th episode special, and you seem like a real down to earth guy with great content, COOL!

[@compu85]

Nissan knows how to do a battery cooling system... it's optional (!!) on the e-NV200 small cargo van. If active cooling was an option on the Leaf I'd recommend it highly to all prospective buyers!

[@ClockworksOfGL]

The 8-Bit Guy The Prius Prime and Ford Energi’s: a) Use better batteries from Panasonic or LG, and b) Assume that you’d use climate control if it’s uncomfortably hot/cold, so they designed the batteries to get plenty of airflow from the cabin. Nissan does neither of these things.

[@OnlineAutoRepairVideos]

Just want to say you have some VERY informative videos, and these videos show that they are still in the "improvement phase" of these batteries, but at the consumers expense, also, I really enjoyed your CVT lessons!

[@agentsennenhund5434]

I would say that ICE, hybrid, plug-in hybrid, and electric vehicles are perpetually in the "improvement phase".

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@davidbeppler3032]

Tesla Model 3 batteries will last 20 years. The motor is good for about a million miles. The fuel costs are half that of ICE and getting cheaper every day.

[@daviddrake7003]

David Beppler Fuel costs on me Bolt EV are less than half now.

[@casychapin4647]

I did some long term test driving with a Chevy bolt in northern Minnesota. It was plugged in every night and experience weeks at a time of temps below -15 ferenhieght and a few nights much lower, I was so impressed, it was ready to drive and had few issues at times when ice cars where struggling to start. And taking forever to warm up.

[@gchenley]

Thanks so much for your through and interesting videos. I bought a 2019 Bolt four days ago and you in part have helped me to make that decision. There are a lot of features and I’m having fun discovering the vehicle.

[@ronaldroberts7221]

The two biggest factors in early battery death are high temps, and charging and storing at 4.2V per cell. Chevy charges to 4.05V and they have this cooling system. Great batteries, and will last a long time.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for watching

[@apl175]

Don't forget the limited market Chevy Spark EV - even this little guy had a water-conditioned battery!

[@WeberAuto]

Very true! Thanks for your feedback

[@Miata822]

I loved my 2011 Leaf but battery life in hot Texas was an issue. I assumed they had learned their lesson and was really looking forward to Leaf 2.0 ... until I learned there was no thermal management, Bought an '18 Volt. Couldn't be happier. It's faster, easier on the eyes, and actually has better real world electric range than the '11 Leaf. No worries about range since it has a built in generator. One day Professor Kelly will even show us how the Volt transmission works ;)

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you! Great feedback!

[@compu85]

Our roommate bought a 2012 Leaf used. At the dealer, the dash display showed the battery was in good shape. However, it turns out the car had just been to Nissan for some firmware updates, one of which "reset" the battery health meter. After a month or two of driving the true health of the battery was shown - 72%. That made going more than 60 miles in the winter a real challenge, and the car also didn't want to do much regenerative braking hurting the range even more. It's a shame really.... if the car had kept its original range it would be perfect... they drive nicely and are comfortable for 4 people. He sold it and got a Fiat 500e. The Leaf was originally registered in Georgia, so I imagine that Southern heat cooked the battery.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback! Great example of the problem discussed in the video!

[@ClockworksOfGL]

The later Leaf batteries were apparently much improved in regards to heat tolerance. Google “lizard battery” for specifics. This doesn’t excuse Nissan for shipping thousands of crap batteries, but at least they seemed to have fixed the problem.

[@compu85]

The problem our roommate ran into is the battery wasn't going to be degraded in time to use the extended warranty. Health has to fall to 68% before Nissan will inspect the car. We did find that towing the car at 13 mph you could lightly press the brake pedal, and it would do lots of regen... and quickly heat the battery. A few alternating cycles of Jetta towing Leaf, then Leaf towing Jetta in circles in a parking lot resulted in a substantial temprature rise. However, we didn't want to risk getting the health down to 69% and being stuck with an even more degraded battery.

"He sold it and got a Fiat 500e" Out of the frying pan into the fire

[@gasdorficmuncher9943]

bjorn nyland had alot issues with quick charging nissans seems they overheat dont preform well in cold tempatures

[@TKevinBlanc]

I've never heard you frustrated like this. But I agree with you: Nissan blew it.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you, it is absolutely ridiculous.

[@mvansumeren4313]

Methinks when they originally designed the Leaf it was supposed to end up as an example of why electric vehicles don't work. Unfortunately for them, Tesla released the Model S in 2012 and showed the world that, infact, EVs can be brilliant. I'm not sure how else to explain the complete incompetence behind the design of the Leaf's energy storage system.

[@rondhole]

@@WeberAuto I have no idea why Nissan cut cost in too many corners worse than even GM with nutorios hit and miss quality

[@royamberg9177]

I have a 2012 volt. Oh my can the heat come out from.under the car when charging after you drive it in the summer.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks, I know what you mean. The cooling system is doing its job removing the heat from the battery.

[@cpF01]

Thanks. Great content. I’ve got a Bolt. Love your posts.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@brianholding4357]

Very informative; thank you.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@jamesfarnham1976]

Great perspectives and info Professor!

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@tomsixsix]

I'd be interested to hear if you have any comments on the e-Golf, which has no liquid cooling for the battery either.

[@JustforFun-cb7bo]

Another great educational video!

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@desiv1170]

I was wondering, do you have any thoughts on how much of a buffer the battery has will affect battery life? We know based on original Volts out there, that their battery looks like it is lasting a long time. The Bolt has the same thermal management, which is good, but it appears to have much less of a top/bottom buffer than the Volt has. Do we think Chevy (LG Chem) is thinking that there isn't as much of a need for it, or is that something we will only find out in 5+ years? Just wondering.. (I basically keep my Bolt in Hilltop mode anyway, and with a larger battery than my Leaf had, I don't tend to go anywhere near as high or low...)

[@WeberAuto]

I do not know. It will be interesting to see. Remember that the Volt battery also had to start the ICE if the battery SOC was low. More reserve capacity may have been needed for that purpose. Obviously the Bolt EV does not need that capability. Thanks for your feedback!

[@RagingDork]

The number 1 reason for me to trade in my 2013 Leaf for a 2017 chevy volt was temperature control for the battery. If the 2018 leaf had a cooling/heating system I might have considered that. Dunno what nissan is thinking.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you for your feedback!

[@dfoulkerjr]

What is your opinion on how sufficent the cooling management for the hybrid battery for the Prius Prime is for battery life longevity? I have one and in the summer months when the car asks me if I want to use the climate control while charging, I always select yes.

[@RHaddadzadeh]

thanks for your accurate explanation, love you channel

[@bobflannagan7262]

Thank you, Professor Kelly. I have a 25 yr old Jeep, a 22 yr old Accent, 32 Toyota camper, etc. As long as I put the work into them, I can keep them running essentially 'forever'. On what criteria would you forecast the approximate maximum life of the Chevy Bolt and what would that max life be?

[@eggroller85]

Professor, thank you for correcting yourself about the conditioned air for the Leaf battery. It's quite unbelievable they rest their EV strategy upon such an oversight. Nissan really missed their opportunity to capitalize upon the early lead they had in the EV market.

[@costakis7895]

Thank you for this video professor, very interesting as always, do you believe that next gen solid state batteries will not have such temperature issues?

[@WeberAuto]

I hope not, but I know nothing about them. Thank you!

[@darrylroberson151]

I have a 2017 Bolt and work in Mesa AZ . I drive it to work in the summer time and park at work no charger day temp is sometime 119F there is no charger for me to plug into. What should I do? Not Drive the car in the summer time???? Please help me with this question?

[@paulgracey4697]

All Leaf's so far manufactured are not really optimized for long road trips. The fast charge ability using Chademo is meant for occasional use. The next version of the Leaf with 200+ mile range will have to have liquid cooling, I believe. It it interests me that Nissan has a test facility in Arizona not too far from the GM test track so they do know how to develop the thermal management, though they really developed that car originally for the chllly climate, and shorter average driving distances in Japan. As you mention, it depends upon cabin temperature management for its passive cooling. Since we humans don't like much range in our comfort levels it tends to work in most situations except direct exposure to sun in hot climates that allow a greenhouse effect to do the pack harm. Just the precaution of parking in concrete parking structures, normal garages and even under carports that are common in such climates will suffice especially if plugged in during periods of disuse. Really no more onerous than having to use an engine block heater in frigid winter locations. The Nissan strategy for the Leaf has been to build a compelling EV for a lower price, in greater numbers than any other manufacturer. They have succeeded in that. It is a good commuter car, but not a touring car. GM has lagged in EV's for that market sector. The section of the manual you quoted is Lawyer inspired language only there because of the Arizona owners of the earlier formulation batteries. The "Lizard" batteries are working fairly well in Leafs in that climate. Not as good, to be sure, but at a lower cost and lower servicing costs as well. Your draining of the Bolt pack's coolant shows the lengths necessary with servicing GM engineered EVs.

[@trangenusa]

The problem is Nissan outsourced their Battery production to someone else, and they did specify or request cooling, to keep costs down. Where as GM built their batteries in-house so they did it right.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback! Good information!

[@Miata822]

Both Bolt and Volt batteries are built by LG.

[@AaronSchwarz42]

Nicely said, very true, spot on, very accurate, good idea compression and expression efficiency. I like the way you think Paul Gracey!

[@jamesterrill1938]

John makes more sense in explaining his videos than anyone I have seen.

[@geojor]

always great , thanks ...

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@cjspooner4603]

Hi, big fan of both the bolt and the leaf, and current 2018 leaf owner. -Second gen nissan leafs batteries are wayyyyyyy better than the originals were. Mine has 78,000 miles and hasnt even lost a capacity bar yet (leafspy says 89% which is expected from early lithium degradation which is common in all lithium based batteries) -Only time my battery ever got warm was when i was quickcharging, towing a loaded trailer, and driving 75-80mph AND it was 95F outside - all in the same day. Car automatically limits power when battery gets hot so it wont damage itself. Never affected my trip. Just noticed the "power" meter was reduced a bit. -Car has literally needed nothing other than wipers and a cabin air filter. -Big differences between the leaf and bolt that most users will notice are as follows - *Leaf has a heat pump, and the bolt has a grid heater - leaf uses much less battery to heat the cabin in the winter. *Also bolt has terrible seats and doesnt give a lot of shoulder room. *Leaf doesnt have telescoping steering wheel. *Leaf has automatic highbeams which are amazing for night driving (not sure if new bolts got this yet? I know the old ones dont) and this is on by default, limiting morons who dont bother turning off their highbeams - i think all cars should implement this. *Bolt has a CCS quickcharge port, leaf has chademo + j1772, (chademo sucks but not if you are just using it for daily commutes / charging at home) *Leaf also has better IIHS crash test ratings -Bolts are great, and i still would like one to this day, but I would worry hauling my kid in a car that is prone to battery fires. Yea the battery might be better thermally managed, but literally ZERO leafs have ever caught fire since they have been put in the road in 2010. Also if either car's battery DID fail, there's a literal metric ton of aftermarket shops doing battery swaps for the leaf, for a fraction of dealer pricing.. Not so much for the bolt. Just a few things to keep in mind if you are shopping for these two cars. Oh and nissan has never received a govt bailout with taxpayer money. That's one thing that always chapped my ass about GM.

[@felipepanos1648]

Mr kelly with all due respect to your knowledge let me tell that slow charging of rechargeables has been and will be the most reliable for the battery life of these devices. I was a technician and have repaired dozens of rechargeable batteries. In my own work scale the NI.CD and NIMH batteries which are supposed to have the problem with the memory phenomenon with the slow charge and as long as they have not been exposed to the sun or to another heating source for a long period of time they still last properly even after ten years. We understand that it is difficult for someone to use a car with such conditions, but surely these are the basic instructions that one must follow one way or another when using a rechargeable device as well as a vehicle of this generation. Thank you.

[@RyanKester71]

Great video, thank you.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@raven4k998]

so how dose this affect battery life for the egolf and focus ev battery life? are they going to be closer to the bolt battery life or leaf battery life?

[@WeberAuto]

They are air cooled with internal or external fans. In my opinion, they are far superior to the Nissan designs. Their life should be closer to that of the Bolt. I think Nissan is alone is this "unique" design. Best wishes!

[@diesel1able]

Thanks .. great information 👍👍

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@supergrafxengine4620]

Would it be possible to have a video about the Imiev? Would it be possible to have a step by step on how to remove the battery pack (cells ) ? Thank you

[@WeberAuto]

That would be fun if I could ever get my hands on one.

[@silverstarflite135]

Hi there. I have a 2012 Volt Premium with 24k miles. Does mine have this cooling/heating feature? If so, I didn't know that. The battery in the winter will charge up to around 27 miles. Summer time almost 40. I store in in a garage. Thanks!

[@WeberAuto]

Yes, all Volts do. Thanks for your feedback!

[@devonharris7311]

Very very helpful

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@mychevysparkevdidntcatchfi1489]

Great video except you're wrong on Leaf cooled from cabin (it's not) and you didn't mention SparkEV. SparkEV has similar battery as Volt and it degraded from 18.4 kWh when new to about 16.8 kWh after 3.5 years with plenty of DCFC and driving through 120F weather up a mountain road (hot, hot, hot). Volt with huge margin in capacity won't show small degradation, but SparkEV would show how Volt battery is degrading in worst case usage.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you, Yes, I was wrong about the Leaf cooling.( I corrected it in the video description a while ago). What a terrible system!

[@Abmartinez977]

It’s a good explanation thanks 👍🏼✌🏼 good video

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@Jakethejakee]

Thanks for this video!

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@Jakethejakee]

I have been in the market for a Bolt for a while (actually planning to purchase mine within the next couple weeks) but was conflicted as to if the ~50 miles drop in range for the leaf was worth the psuedo autopilot features... but I think this video makes it clear that it isn't.

[@amerajawi527]

Hello professor l am from Jordan thanks for all your lessons can l add cooling system to the Nissan leaf 40k battery 2018

[@joeaverager]

I've been driving a 2019 Leaf Plus (62kWH) for about a year now. Its my employer's car. I drove it quite a bit over the past summer. It never got hot under normal conditions right up to 95F. There is a battery temp screen on the dash. Outside ambient temp readout on the radio. I drove it on the interstate. I drove it in traffic. I drove it in hilly places. Generally had the a/c on too. I checked it after being parked in the sun. The only time it concerned me was when I once fast charged it (50KW) on a 95F day. Then it got hot and stayed that way for an hour or more. After charging I drove it about 15 mins to complete my task and parked it. The next time I drove it that afternoon it was cool again. I fast charged it again on a cooler 80F day and the temp went up but not nearly as much. This might not be the car for FL or weather in the southwest. I don't know. It was fine here in the southeast 90F+ summer heat though. I would not worry about the battery being hot if I owned this car b/c I would generally L1 or L2 charge it at home overnight. If I wanted an EV to do fast travel long distances in the summer relying on a series of fast chargers this would not be the car. Any other use seems to make very little difference to the battery temps. I think it is a non-issue for most drivers. It is an easy criticism against the Leaf but real life experience with the car says otherwise. A Corvette is lousy in the snow and doesn't tow boats very well but nobody holds that against it.

[@joeaverager]

Okay - I discovered (like other people) Rapidgate. Fast charged a 40KWH Leaf from 54% to ~80%. Drove ~130 miles. 60sF weather. Fast charged from 8 miles to 80%. Sorry for the units change. Battery had been in the middle temp wise on the display but quickly moved to the first red bar and stayed there. Battery charger was forced to throttle back to ~23KWH. I think this is a fine car. Still really like it and would own one myself. However it is not a good fast charging car if battery durability is important to the owner. Had i done this same trip and then instead of the second fast charge I L1 or L2 charged the Leaf - it would have been fine. Or better yet, left it parked for an hour or so to cool a little more. In my case, my coworker needed it ASAP for another task (short trip, no additional charging).

[@jgossy5478]

Thanks, this video makes me really happy I bought a Bolt.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@jgossy5478]

I love my Bolt, now if I can afford to make it run with solar energy I will have the car of the year.

[@AaronSchwarz42]

The Bolt is the first GM product I have ever seriously considered buying :)

[@tomstdenis]

@@AaronSchwarz42 Don't knock the Volt. I have both a Bolt (2019) and Volt (2018) and they're both really good cars. For most of the year in Canada we drive the Volt purely in EV mode (once you're warmer than -9C the engine doesn't have to run). We got the premier trim so we have the drive assist, automatic cruise, etc... and it's actually a nice (albeit cramped) ride. It's too bad they're not producing the Volt anymore...

[@dskebo]

You can order a volt anyway you want it right now

[@VehiclesandCars]

Great information!

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@henryli7577]

Great info, I am shopping for one. Now I will go for the Bolt

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback

[@gearwrench877]

hey john, been watching your awesome videos for a while, and i thank you so much for everyone of them. i have a question on a 08 chevrolet tahoe hybrid, in my shop. the system is locked out because of high voltage after the contacters are opened, but im onlys seeing 30 volts, verified to be coming from the inveter. the battery is nimh 300 volt. the code that sets is p0c76. my question is am i right to be chasing this voltage? ( i can discharge it with a test light and no codes return). where would you begin? thank you if you can find it in your heart to reply:)

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you! The diagnostic for P0C76 tells you to refer to doc# 1983521 High Voltage Contactor/Relay Malfunction to diagnose a stuck closed contactor. Have you performed that procedure? Sending you to that procedure seems ridiculous since both the negative and positive contactors (or the positive and the pre-charge (current limit relay) contactor) would have to be stuck closed at the same time to cause this DTC. When you say "I'm only seeing 30 volts, verified to be coming from the inverter," was that with the 2 heavy orange wires from the 300V battery disconnected? 30 Volts is not normal. If the 30V is at the inverter with the 2 heavy orange wires from the battery disconnected, it must be an inverter problem. If the 30V is only there with the 2 heavy orange wires connected, the problem is in the battery contactors. Let me know. Best wishes!

[@gearwrench877]

Wow awesome thank you for replying! Yes the heavy cables disconnected properly to fool the system, 30 volts coming from the inverter. tech-line said i shouldn't be worried about this 30 volts because the code setting criteria is 60, however what he isn't getting is it also wants to see a drop in 500ms which is not happening. no voltage at the battery.(when disconnected) all 3 contacters audibly click. (when commanded). i also wonder where these resistors are located that are suppose to discharge this energy.. Just to let you know ive done the bulletin many times. The final clue is the vehicle stalled entering the highway, customer had it towed home and tried changing the 12 volt battery, ( erasing potential evidence of root cause). Then told us that it did have a generic p0700 code ( it also uses the motors in the transmission to eliminate this energy however im sure this isn't proprietary to this system though). Doing what ive done is there anything else you would check before condemning the inverter? thank you, so much sir.

[@gearwrench877]

im sure your busy with the daily grind, just wondering if you have any input thus far?

[@hawkofthenorth4829]

What is the optimal temperature operating range for these lithium ion batteries?

[@joeaverager]

Check out battery university. LOTS of detail.

[@oklahomasupercell]

Is it true that when the car (Bolt/Volt, NOT LEAF) is off (sitting in a parking lot etc) there is liquid cooling occurring? Or only when charging/driving? Thnx much

[@WeberAuto]

Only when driving or when the AC charger is plugged in. The DC quick charger will activate the cooling, but not the heating system.

[@oklahomasupercell]

WeberAuto thanks for the reply 😀

[@jonmayer]

As someone interested in buying a used Chevy Volt, you say their batteries should hold up over time. Do you know how I could check the battery for expected life on a used vehicle? What are some things to look for or will an ODBII scanner give you any additional info?

[@WeberAuto]

An OBDII scanner will not help you with that. I am not aware of a good way to check for remaining battery capacity. I have heard of only one battery failure around 150,000 miles. My 2014 has 60,000 miles and has the same range as when it was new. Best wishes!

[@jonmayer]

@@WeberAuto thank you for the reply. I guess I'll have to stick to a long test drive to see if it holds up. Thank you for these videos as well, I was curious about this car but never considered used due to the batteries. The information you provided makes me a bit more confident that I could look into this as an option.

[@thetonerchannel3641]

The focus electric battery is also liquid cooled.

[@Fredric169]

I can fully support your statement about the Nissan Leaf and it‘s battery. I got one since a bit + 1 year and monitored the battery life. I detected 3 events when the battery health decreased quite significantly (0,7 - 1% / event). 1) accidentially drained the 12 V Battery as light was not switched off accidentally => SOH reduction 1,27% 2) during cold season had to bypass 1 charging station as it was defect thus had to go to low SOC (3%) and charged Dc 40 kW afterwards SOH reduction 1,47% 3) high acceleration 9max power for ca 2Min SOH reduction 0,64%

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@thetonerchannel3641]

Great videos! I would like to see one on a Ford focus electric. Is there any possibility of doing one?

[@WeberAuto]

That would be nice, but I doubt I will ever see one here in Utah.

[@KTPurdy]

There are a few.

[@Gyrospyro]

Thanks for the information! I did have a question. I thought the Bolt was supposed to be able to heat and cool the battery even when not plugged in? Is that true? I've left my bolt in the heat and cold unplugged and didnt notice any battery conditioning usage on my energy readout so i was a little confused by this. When i plug the bolt in during the winter it sucks down so much power, and i couldnt tell, is that to keep the battery at proper operating temperature to get it read to be driven immediately, or was that actually all completely necessary Heating for battery life? I would rather it not waste so much energy over cold winter nights because im not going to hop in it at 4am and got for a ride.

[@pharettface]

So I take this from a little different stand point, I work with satellites for a living and battery management is life for these things we use to navigate to the store. The batteries on board a GPS satellite are shot into space and then have to operate in very harsh conditions for decades. Satellites have to be thermally managed as the battery getting too cold in vacuum or too hot from radiation will destroy it (can even explode). It is by far is better to use a power cycle or energy from the battery to keep it in specification. Many of the Satellites I work with are close to 20 years old and still have a decent amount of battery life left primarily due to the battery keeping within its temp limits. In fact many of the sats will die from solar panels failing not the batteries. Now some of these are very old battery tech but we saw chemistry like whats in these cars years ago in the space community. Governments generally have the money to dump billions into such projects. Its nice to see the tech come down to consumers. When I look over the leaf as an engineer it quite frankly blows my mind as to how they have no active TMS. Temperature of batteries in the space world is the absolute key to a long life of any battery. Other things like voltage lows and highs are very important as well but high or low cell temp charging can even affect that. The leaf and well Nissan, IMO has made so many mistakes in the EV world is hard to ever trust them. This is all new to the general public but I think Tesla and Chevy especially have really looked into the mistakes that have been made with batteries in space for decades and improved designs to maximize battery life. I am very excited to have a 2018 Bolt the price, range, and engineering is all there to make for some great long lasting EVs. But I can say as someone who has to use batteries in space for a living I will never buy any EV that isn't fully able to manage its battery temperature. Love your videos my friend, from Air Force nerds that fly your satellites.

[@WeberAuto]

Awesome information! Thank you!

[@rejeanrobichaud]

Thanks for reading my Mind Proff , funny you say that ,I live in the East Coast of New Brunswick Canada ,I've never seen an Electric Vehicle in my life very interesting channel .Thanks Again . Reg

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you and thanks for your feedback! Stay warm ;)

[@V10PDTDI]

Rejean Robichaud hey Réjean dans quel coin que tu vit ? Tu as raison il y a pas beaucoup de voiture electric au Nouveau- Brunswick mais il on mis plusieurs fast charger un peu partout dans la province il y a un gas pas très loin de moi dans la péninsule acadienne qui a une leaf de première génération.

[@rejeanrobichaud]

Ouais , ok cest pas le best drapres le Proff , mais moi je vit a Dalhousie Junction .

[@rejeanrobichaud]

Je suit pas certain mais des Tech pour les voiture comme ca il en a pas 20 .Pis notre climat aide pas a la cause pour les voiture électriques .

[@AlainHubert]

I wonder if the new Hyundai Kona Electric will have a heating/cooling system for its battery ? Because if it does, it looks like this could be very tempting to switch to all electric car, since I do about 10K miles per year. The only drawback would be that I live in a rented apartment, with a regular power outlet in my parking space still, but no possibility of higher power available for faster charging. Although there is a fast charging station about 3 blocks away. Also am I to understand that, in the winter time like right now, it's 14 F outside, so the Bolt's battery heating system would be working even if the car is parked and turned off in order to prevent the battery from freezing ? And if so, how much drain would that be on the battery itself ?

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, keeping it plugged in would keep it at the proper temperature. It uses a 2 kW (variable) battery heater to maintain the temperature of 18.3 degrees C (65 F). It may initially use a little power from the battery, but the charger would replenish it and supply any needed power afterwards.

[@AlainHubert]

@@WeberAuto So, if the car is parked on the street, unplugged, then the battery will have to supply all the current to that battery heater in order to maintain its temperature at 18.3 C, even when the outside temperature might be 30 degrees C below that ? Won't that reduce the available range after, say, 8 hours ? And I suppose that this also apply in hot summer days when the car is parked unplugged, with the cooling system working to keep the battery temperature optimal ? Thanks for the info, John. All the best to you and your family in 2019 !

[@WeberAuto]

@@AlainHubert If the car is not plugged in, the battery temperature will not be managed at all until you power on the vehicle to drive it. The cold (or hot) battery will not be as efficient as a warm battery. so the range will be reduced until the battery is in the proper temperature range again. Thank you!

[@AlainHubert]

@@WeberAuto Ah, that's clear now. Thanks. It would be interesting to see Hyundai's technology and if it innovates in certain areas relative to the competition. Do you think that you'll eventually have the opportunity to do that ?

[@WeberAuto]

@@AlainHubert I hope so

[@ericcindycrowder7482]

Thank you for saying “EV” in Bolt EV. People may make fun of that, but it’s useful to say it to reduce confusion in the Bolt EV and Volt. Why did Chevy have to use such similar sounding names? There already is so much confusion in the general public regarding EV and plug in vehicles. This just adds fuel to the fire, so to speak.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you! I had someone call me out on the Bolt verses Volt confusion several videos ago telling me I needed to add "EV" to the Bolt. I am glad they did, it was confusing. Additionally, the back of the Bolt EV has an emblem that reads "Bolt EV". Have a great day!

[@tomcleaveland4325]

Personally, I wish Chevy had revived the "Bel Air" model name, instead of using "Bolt".

[@tomstdenis]

@@WeberAuto For added fun you should try owning both. I have a Volt and a Bolt (hey stick with what works) and trying to explain that to neighbours was fun.

[@aufornvic]

@@tomcleaveland4325 You could always paint it onto the car yourself.

[@tomcleaveland4325]

@@aufornvic My detailing skills are such that I would use a 4" brush and a can of latex.

[@koit112]

Does TMS and BMS work when the Bolt is unplugged and turned off? Does it take energy from the high voltage battery to heat the battery in extreme cold weather conditions? My concern is leaving the Bolt unplugged for a long time in cold weather.

[@WeberAuto]

It does not work when unplugged. The owner's manual has instructions for long term storage. If less than 30 days, just leave it plugged in.

[@koit112]

WeberAuto thank you for your answer :-) I will stay at a remote location for 3 months without the possibility of being plugged in. It will be quite cold the whole stay (Norway). Will this create a noticeable decrease on the lifespan of my battery? Should I use my ICE instead for this trip?

[@koit112]

Bump :-)

[@WeberAuto]

@@koit112 I do not know. Please let me know what happens. Thanks.

[@driversteve9345]

I am currently renting out a 2017 Chevy Bolt EV through the GM Maven Gig program that allows me to drive their cars for Ridesharing with Lyft/Uber. After having this vehicle for less than a week, I'm already thinking about buying one once I am employed again with a good paying job once more. I do wish the range would be a bit better, like 100 miles more range, and the driver seat needs to be bigger for me to comfortably sit in it for a long period of time. I'm having to use a table chair cushion to make the seat slightly more tolerable! I'm wondering if there is a way to swap out my front seat for a bigger and more comfortable chair, perhaps from another vehicle?

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback, I do not know the answer to that question.

[@tomcleaveland4325]

Great video, and thanks for your analysis. We experienced about a week of extreme cold in northern New England (-20F to -15F) in early 2018, and typically have a period of deep cold (0F) every year in January. When I plugged in my Bolt after work you could hear the circulating pumps taking care of the battery. I would not want to expose an un-managed battery to those temperatures.

[@WeberAuto]

Great feedback, Thank you!

[@joeaverager]

Looks like there is a battery heater in the newer Leafs.

[@kc7ekk]

Great information. Thanks for sharing. BTW, I'm an adjunct professor at Weber (EET department) and would love to stop by your shop sometime.

[@WeberAuto]

Awesome! That would be great. Thank you.

[@Domestic_Material_Etching]

Well after hearing this I won't be in the market for a Leaf. I have a 2014 Chevy Spark Ev and 2017 Chevy Bolt and the battery management is far superior than the Leaf and also the Kia Soul Ev. Here in AZ I have not seen battery degradation on my 2014 Spark as I still get 85 miles per charge. It sits in 111 degree heat in the summer and never misses a beat. Thanks again for the great info, your channel has really provided a wealth of information for me.

[@WeberAuto]

Awesome feedback! Thank you!

[@Xyquest]

So you would recommend the Spark EV?

[@Domestic_Material_Etching]

Without hesitation I would. If you take the price (around $9k), warranty (8yr / 100k Mile for charger, drive battery, motor and HVAC system) and fun factor; its the best bang for your buck. If you desire more comfort under $20k get a BMW i3.

[@two_number_nines]

this battery temperature regulation system should be a standard for EV's. the main problem with EV's right now is how much the car looses value after a few years because of the battery degrading

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you, I agree

[@ClockworksOfGL]

EVs lose value because the new versions are so much better (ie. more range). It’s like the early days of computers and smartphones. On the other hand, Tesla hold their value quite well, because they’ve always had enough range to be useful. A sub-200 mile EV is just a grocery-getter, whereas a 200+ mile EV with real fast charging infrastructure (meaning: Superchargers) is a real car.

[@alexanderhamilton8585]

Yep. Love my BOLT. I drive, every day, 82 miles to work and 82 back home. 164 total. Not counting "grocery getting". When I get back from my mostly highway driving trip on cruise control at 73, I have, depending on the wind that day and the temperature, 28-50 miles indicated. 30 "Indicated" miles, as we all know, especially after a day of bucking headwinds on the highway, is really more like 60+ in the city.

[@agentsennenhund5434]

That is why for the first time in 35 years, I chose to lease. Since it uses the same technology as the Volt's battery system, I am fairly sure that the Bolt will hold up well. If it does not, I can walk away. That being said, I love this car! If I decide that I want to buy it, I'll try to refinance it a few months before the lease is over - knowing full well the 3 year old resale value.

[@RagingDork]

Yes should be required like airbags and backup cameras.

[@flyboyutahfoy8896]

I've looked at several used Nissan Leafs and found most have only 50%-60% of battery range capacity remaining. This means when you charge up your Leaf you'll only have 50-60 miles of range (Instead of the new 113 miles) before the battery gives out. Replacing the original battery cost around $5,000 which you can expect to degrade the same as the original battery did.

[@WeberAuto]

Great feedback! Thank you!

[@jollygreen4662]

Is the bolt battery system better than the tesla battery system?

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

you are a brilliant person. and i greatly appreciate your input on this and the fact that you yield to facts. I have the Spark EV and it seems to be doing well.... similar battery thermal management as bolt/volt. ALSO i have the nissan leaf 2012. I do not like it at regarding Thermal management all because the battery degrades so quickly. I would argue that the cabin temp does not affect the battery temperature due to all the layers of steel and the layer of air between the cabin and the battery cells themselves :(

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you. You are correct, I was wrong about air cooling on the Leaf EV, there is no internal air flow (even a worse design than I could imagine). Thanks for your feedback!

[@veganwally]

Thank you!

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@cutehumor]

Professor, thank you for your analysis. I live in Franklin, TN, where Nissan corporate USA is. I can tell you, there are not many leafs here, more Tesla vehicles than Leafs. I did hear Nissan was going with liquid cooling battery management in their new Nissan EV SUV. I can only hope so. The chademo fast charging needs to go away too and use CCS fast charging like the chevy bolt uses.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you. I hope they did too.

[@rahhal83]

After 2 years there is recall on Bolt battary and Nissan leaf 2018 battery still very good

[@mikechiodetti6737]

We had Nissan Leaf's ( or leave's) at the L.A. D.W.P. where I worked for 29+ years. I seem to remember walking by the vehicles at the charge stations and hearing fans running. Now these were 1st Generation Leaf's, so I know nothing about the later ones. Also Professor Kelly is this. 1st Gen Leaf's would charge the High Voltage Battery at the charge station, but NOT the 12 Volt battery! I had MANY "no starts" for them (they were located in our Main St Yard). At first I would "jumper pack" jump start them and bring them back to the shop, charge the battery, check the battery, charging system and for key off current drains. All were good, no problems. The problem turned out to be not driving them enough! When I used the jumper pack, I had to leave it connected to the car's battery located under the hood. If I didn't do that, I didn't get far, the 12 volt didn't have enough internal power to hold on, or power to, the contactor's and the vehicle would stop. Apparently the converter to charge the battery didn't have enough oomph to keep the 12 volt system going. Nissan didn't want us to touch them except for routine maintenance. So after doing some research, I found out which Delco battery fit perfectly in the vehicle. That helped. Oh ya. That was my first encounter with electronic/electrical parking brakes. I couldn't get one to release. Thank GOD the owners manual was in the car! LOL! A former coworker has a Leaf, and he loves it! He says, Thanks to Tesla in California, there are chargers up and down the state, some free, some for a fee. He says he's driven up and down the state. I didn't think to ask him if he's driven to Arizona or Nevada. HMMMMMM??? My apology for the long email, just wanted to pass on that info. Mike Chiodetti Retired Auto Electrician Los Angeles Dept of Water and Power.

[@WeberAuto]

Great information, Thanks for your feedback

[@markmcdougal1199]

Prof. Webber, thank you for your *excellent* instructional vids. Well done. I have a question. As a new Bolt owner, I wonder about future upgradability of the bolt powertrain. Say, for instance, that they came out with a battery pack that had twice the capability, and could deliver twice as much energy to the wheels as the current battery. Could the motor / gears / transfer components / electrical connections, cables, and power distribution and stepping components handle the increased energy output of the battery?

[@joeaverager]

Good question. With the Leafs they are doing exactly these things. Why not with the Bolt too?

[@mjrauhal]

The documentation is probably largely ass-covering. The earlier Leafs (aside from the very first model years which IIRC used a less optimal chemistry) seem to generally fare pretty well, battery-wise. Not saying that the Bolt doesn't seem to do it better, though.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@Xyquest]

What is your opinion of the Chevy Spark? For a used EV, would it be a better choice than the Leaf because of battery management?

[@WeberAuto]

I do not know enough about them to help you with that question.

[@RagingDork]

Xyquest I personally wouldn't buy a compliance car. I worry about the availability of replacement parts down the road.

[@Xyquest]

Raging, that is a good point

[@earnmyturns6305]

Professor Kelly thank you. I would like to understand something in the Bolt manual re battery conditioning: Apparently AC current warms a battry but DC won't. I do not understand the physics. Page 135 of the Bolt manual says of the error message in caps: "BATTERY TOO COLD, PLUG IN TO WARM This message displays during extremely cold temperatures, when the vehicle will not start until the high voltage battery is warm enough. Plug the vehicle in to an AC charging station and make sure power is off to allow the charging system to warm the high voltage battery, then the vehicle can be started. DC charging cannot be used to recover a cold high voltage battery." ....this last sentence is just stated, with no further explanation. DC would bypass... one or two components... This winter I charged my Bolt at a DCFC during very cold weather, it was painfully slow and stayed that way, never speeding up. why is that?

[@WeberAuto]

Wow, I was not aware of that! I had to do some research. Apparently the high voltage battery coolant heater is only powered when a J1772 compliant AC charge cord is used. The DC Fast Charger bypasses the on-board charger module (which powers the heater) under the hood and connects directly to the battery. According to the schematic, the passenger compartment coolant heater is powered when the DCFC is used as well as the AC compressor to cool the battery if needed. Normally the DCFC would heat the battery just from the act of charging the battery and need cooling. It does say in the service manual that the DCFC will not operate unless the battery is at normal operating temperature. Maybe battery damage can occur in very cold conditions. I will continue to investigate. Maybe one of our other viewers can help with the answer as well. Thanks for your feedback!

[@crannaford]

Give it 5 years and I'll put my money on the LEAF being the more reliable of the two. My 2012 is 6 years old (60,000km) and lives outside in the blazing sun in one of Australia's hottest capital cities. So far, 6 years of totally maintenance free driving. I charge absolutely as needed, often several times a day and never give a minutes thought to "saving the battery". It just goes and goes and goes and goes. I'm waiting (an eternity) for my Model 3 but I won't be getting rid of my LEAF when it arrives, it's a brilliant car.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback. True, driving 833 km per month (10.7 miles per day) is not going to wear that battery out very quickly.

[@crannaford]

Thanks for your response. I'm quite convinced battery degradation has much more to do with time than kms. The first owner travelled 11,000km in the first 38 months and it degraded 14%, I've done 49,000km in the subsequent 27 months and it has degraded a further 9%. (86%-77%) Since I've owned the car I've averaged over 1800km per month.

[@alanlee2751]

Thanks for your video. I bought a reasonably-priced 2015 (24kwh) Leaf a couple of years ago as a bit of a gamble. Despite having done quite a lot of digging on the subject of battery health / degradation / charging etc, I came to the conclusion that Nissan either couldn't (or wouldn't) offer any clear advice on how to maximise battery longevity. After 2 years of ownership I actually love the car, but STILL regard the purchase as something of a gamble, given your observations on the Nissan handbook entries (!) That said, if the car still has a reasonable range in another 3 years' time, I'll regard it as having been worth the risk (and the price). Thanks again.

[@jestronixhanderson9898]

Yep, I’ve done the same. I picked up a 2015 for 9k, it’s done about 20k miles. 86% battery health, no quick charges in its life. I have short journeys to work, shops and weekend run abouts. All it needs to do is run for 5 years and it’s petrol savings have paid for the car :) its zippy round town and seems to get off the line better than my 180kw Subaru :) I drive eco mode if I’m stuck in traffic as it’s less braking. Other than that I drive it like a regular car, even with a led foot. It can drop to 30% and I can still do what I need. Long distance yeh my ice car is the solution, I’m not buying a Kona till I’ve squeezed the leaf. What can say, 2011-12 had bad batteries, the later models are holding their kWh, even the quick charged ones.

[@glenngoodale1709]

nice job

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@UncleWally3]

Well constructed and informative video - thank you. Here’s my question: Do hybrid cars have temperature controlled batteries? Should they? I live in a cold climate that, I believe, renders EV’s problematic. My last hybrid worked very well - but I am unsure as to what to purchase next. Again, thank you for your useful videos.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you! Yes, every hybrid car I am aware of uses cooling fans to run passenger compartment air through the battery to cool it or heat it. The Volt uses liquid cooling and heating, but it has a very large battery compared to other hybrids. Best wishes!

[@toyotaprius79]

You basically answer all the questions we need!!

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@Cjdergrosse]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the new Leaf is a bad design, from the battery/cooling POV. Why couldn't they have at least made it an OPTION on the base car? Say $500 for liquid thermal management? I know I'd get it.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback! I agree

[@torstenb5248]

But what happens when you park your Bolt in direct sunlight for hours? Does the cooling run on battery power or do the batteries just get as hot as the cabin?

[@agentsennenhund5434]

No. The cooling and heating does not run unless the Bolt EV is plugged in or on. From the manual: "Keep the vehicle plugged in, even when fully charged, to keep the high voltage battery temperature ready for the next drive. This is important when outside temperatures are extremely hot or cold."

[@torstenb5248]

Agent Sennenhund, right so. But is it realistic to have a charging plug handy when you are at your destination? What I want to say is that it is very likely that the Bolt batteries are exposed to extreme temperatures almost as much as the Leaf batteries.

[@agentsennenhund5434]

Well... Yes - EXPOSED to the same temperatures, that is true but if you have an EVSE at home, your battery temperature is being monitored for as much as 8 hours per day (while you sleep). Add another hour of driving to and from work and the Bolt's battery temperature is as best as it can be 10 out of 24 hours. If you have an EVSE at work, all the better. The Leaf's battery temperature is not being actively managed -ever. I only plug my Bolt EV in my garage at night when 1. It is low on charge or 2. The temperature is very cold. I also program my Bolt in the cold weather to complete charging just before I plan to use it. Since the act of charging a battery warms it up, my battery is the warmest it is going to be just as I drive away plus it has been warming the battery overnight as needed.

[@erikstephens34]

Keep in mind the Bolt EV battery weighs nearly 1000lbs so it heats and cools very slowly. So 8 hours in the sun isn't going to do much. The warning in the instructions are mostly for cars that will be sitting for a few days or more at a time. It's also why the instructions state to drive the car every so often to run the battery TMS and regulate the battery temperature as an alternate to keeping it plugged in.

[@raymondramirez9177]

@Erik Stephens: The Chevy Bolt EV battery has a layer of insulation between the cells and the cover, so the battery will not heat up much after hours in the Sun, or cool down when exposed to cold. As soon as the Bolt EV is powered up, it will begin the battery thermal management and run well. If you doubt this, just lease a Bolt EV and see it working for yourself.

[@der_Emanuel]

Another great video from your channel! I wasn’t aware that there is any OEM out there not having a thermal management on the traction batteries! Not even an air cooling via the passenger compartment. From my experience with several BEVs and PHVEs the battery cooling kicks in quite fast even under moderate conditions. As a Leaf driver I’d of course be concerned about the life time. But what about the performance of the battery? Anyone witnessed loss of constant/ peak power or slow charging under hot conditions?

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you! All valid concerns.

[@KTPurdy]

Yes, as a Leaf owner I've experienced reduced L3 charging rates at extreme hot or cold environments. The owner's manual covers this. LeafSpy is a wonderful application for tracking your battery's performance and health.

[@cleverdood]

The 2018 Leaf has no TMS as it's using the same battery pack as the previous gen. Apparently, the 2019 model will switch to LG Chem supplied batteries that will allow it to match to Bolt on range and TMS capability.

[@WeberAuto]

I hope so! Thank you for your feedback

[@KTPurdy]

+Jason Little - LG Chem will likely manufacture the Li Ion recipe as directed by Nissan (at least they do for GM which is patented). Cell design is different than pack design which is still in Nissan's court. Will be interesting to see which way Nissan chooses to go.

[@cleverdood]

I think it was a good idea to keep the old battery tech in favour of spending the time and money improving on the car itself. We drove the Leaf and Bolt back to back at the autoshow and while the Bolt handled much better, the Leaf completely blew it away in every other category. Better interior, WAY better seats, everyday driveability, and features...for 10K less. Once they release the 2019 with the new battery tech, the Bolt will look much less enticing I think.

[@StephenWeppler]

@kennethbokor1 still getting one?

[@raymondramirez9177]

I saw and heard the Nissan Leaf recommendations, and I laughed at what Prof Kelly said. Seems that if you have a Leaf and need to drive it far, you have to carry some CO2 fire extinguishers to spray and cool the battery under the floor! I leave this "recommendation" to anyone who wishes to invent on their own a fast cooling system using CO2..

[@WeberAuto]

lol, Thanks for your feedback!

[@Geckogold]

I heard rumors that the 60 kWh Leaf that's supposed to arrive in 2019 will have a liquid thermal management system. If true, I hope you can do another analysis of it vs other automaker's EV's. That liquid heating/cooling system is one of the reasons I chose a Volt over the Leaf, in addition to having the gas engine so I can drive it wherever I want without needing a 2nd car for that feature.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@tonys9413]

This info should be more publicized to reach prospective Leaf buyers. I considered buying the new leaf earlier this year until I discovered the fatal flow with their passive battery temperature management system. I live in Florida and there’re plenty of horror stories about rapid loss of battery capacity even for the ‘16 and ‘17 model years. The ‘18 Model is no different in battery chemistry or temp management system; this is unconscionable on Nissan part.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@alexanderhamilton8585]

Yep. That's terrible. How much more would it BE? I mean REALLY!

[@txjeb]

You may have addressed this and I missed it, but are there plans to tear into a Tesla?

[@WeberAuto]

I hope so, i am still working on that plan. Thanks for your feedback!

[@patrickgarant3643]

does chrysler cool and heat their batteries on the pacifica?

[@WeberAuto]

Yes, liquid cooled and heated

[@000OO0OOO0]

Yes, and it also only uses less than 13kwh out of the 16.5kwh battery, leaving good safety margins. The battery should last.

[@AndyJHiscock]

Interesting video. Sadly we don;t have the Volt/Bolt here in the UK

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback! I think the Bolt is the Opel Ampera.

[@antonio6736]

I have Chevy bolt I used to charge on 120 and get 260 miles after 3 month I got a wrpv Charger now after a month get 225 miles What I’m doing wrong why I don’t do the extra miles

[@WeberAuto]

I do not know what a wrpv charger is. Has the weather (temperature) changed? You can use more power for heat and air conditioning in colder and hotter months.

[@baronsilverbaron757]

So how reliable is a Leaf without liquid cooling to one with liquid cooling keeping in mind a comparable cost of car? I've just bought a new Leaf 62 KWH. I chose the Leaf because the price was right. I liked the design and the track record of many years experience.

[@Trades46]

The Leaf AESC battery is really built to cost. Which is sad as a car I much prefer the Leaf over the Bolt. The answer hopefully is the 2019 Leaf with the 60 kWh battery which is manufactured by LG Chem (the same manufacturer GM uses) and has active Thermal management system.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@be236]

Yup. I'm eagerly waiting for LEAF 2019 as well. I currently have LEAF 2017, and so far, it's been okay driving , and I really like it... since it is fairly *new* I dont have battery issues yet.

[@hochhaul]

Oh weird, Nissan cheerleaders swear up and down that there's no disadvantage to the older Leaf battery yet even Nissan is spending the money to add active thermal management to their batteries. Perhaps these devout Leaf defenders should contact Nissan and inform them that they're wasting their time because the passively cooled Leaf battery doesn't lose as much capacity as everyone points out it does...

[@evtrekker1317]

@David Cann after 5 yrs and similar miles to your LEAF my '13 Volt still exceeds the EPA EV miles of 38 per charge (from 10.4kWh). I reside in Alaska USA and park outside, plugged in. From spring to fall I get over 40mi with a consistent 47mi in summer. I've no concerns about the Volts reliably either. It has a very good record to date and it was even tested in AK as a prototype. It's also the most popular plug-in in this state although we have a long way to go with EV adoption, we are making progress up here. The LEAF is a great EV though. I have test driven one and liked it but the NISSAN dealers in AK are only interested in selling trucks and don't offer the LEAF, they're not even certified to service them. What a shame.

[@WeberAuto]

Great information, thank you!

[@kyliefan7]

Thank you for pointing out the shortfalls of the Nissan Leaf....I’ll be passing on that car because of that and many other reasons.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank for your feedback

[@ouch1011]

Thanks for this info! As someone who works in the automotive industry and gets to see the effects of manufacturers designing cars in a computer and not in the real world, I've learned to trust people like yourself who base their opinions off of years or decades of real-world experience. I know some tend to only believe data, but actual results in the real world are often more useful. Cars would be built much different, and likely better, if designed mostly off of real world results, not simulations. Anyway, I'd like to request some information about the current Hyundai/Kia hybrid and EV systems. I leased a 2016 Soul EV at the end of 2017 since they were giving rebates equaling to 1/2 the value of the car, making it reasonable for an EV-curious person like myself to try one out with little risk. Although the 1st gen Soul EV is not a great example of an EV, it has made me a fan of EVs for most commuting needs. I'd like to know more about their longer distance, higher powered EV drivetrain that they are currently offering in the Niro, Kona and soon to be released Soul. Thanks!

[@toyotaprius79]

I thought the LEAF's battery had "passive air cooling". Which is just cold air rushing under the battery pan like a steel heatsink. It would be better if it was air-cooled with interior vents and cabin temperature, that's what the i-MiEV and all Toyota/Lexus hybrids use.

[@toyotaprius79]

What effect (or difference) would there be if one would use the remote climate system while parked and charging? I gotta see this fan, this is news to me. And a shame too, because Nissan did use a plumbed AC cooling method for the e-NV200.

[@WeberAuto]

I was wrong, there is no air flow through the battery from the passenger compartment. According to the owner's manual, the climate control system can come on while charging, but it does not say why. Maybe it is because the battery gets too hot and heats up the passenger compartment. The Leaf battery is sealed just just like the Chevrolet Bolt battery (which is even a worse scenario for Nissan). Thanks for your feedback.

[@KTPurdy]

toyotaprius79 - you are right. Nissan also controls heat output through resistance control, meaning limiting how fast the battery can be charged/discharged when the battery is experiencing extreme temperatures.

[@riggsmed]

When I saw that you were a professor, I thought I would see graphs and charts showing evidence that the active temperature-controlled batteries would last longer, not your hypothesis. My undergraduate degree was in chemistry. In chemistry, we use measurements and math to back up our hypothesis, not the suppositions from an owners manual. I also hypothesize that the active temperature management found in the Chevrolet bolt and volt will extend the battery life but without data, I'm not going to state it as fact.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback. You are, of course, correct; however, I do not need charts and graphs to show the unbelievable statements from NISSAN about maintaining the battery life of the Leaf. I doubt that anyone would knowingly purchase any electric vehicle with those restrictions. I am simply pointing out those restrictions in an attempt to educate the general population regarding this topic.

[@StarNumbers]

Excellent video. I am surprised the so called autowriters missed this altogether. If the battery management is not done right the whole EV technology could get a bad name. As I see this vid, if you were to buy a used Leaf you would be in the same quandary as with the gasoline car just guessing how abusive the previous owner could have been. So it seems the Bolt-Volt is the way to go, new or used. I hope to see other models being reviewed here and am subscribing just for that reason.

[@WeberAuto]

Thank you!

[@Frank71]

Mike Ivsin Autowriters,....aka auto journalists....they don't have to live with the car. Auto journalists are like grandparents, they come for the good times with ur toddler, and take cute baby pics. As soon as its time to change dipers full of pee and poop, grandma and pops turn the toddler back in, to you.

[@killerrabitwherexis4]

I had all the same thoughts about the new leaf. It was a horrible decision not to implement a proper thermal management system. The Chevy Volt and Bolt systems were nicely designed. They even took the time to ensure through thorough testing and thoughtful design that in temperatures down to -30 F or as hot as it gets anywhere on earth that the battery back is the correct temperature and that the battery cells are all within 2 degrees of each other, so the thermal management system is also finely tuned to heat and cool in a balanced fashion.

[@WeberAuto]

Thanks for your feedback!

[@icekk007]

Prof. Kelly, your comments on thermal management is relevant because the battery chemistry is sensitive to temperature. I would argue the Nissan design would be most energy efficient and cost effective should heat insensitive chemistry become available.

[@tomstdenis]

I've personally seen my Volt turn on the AC while the car is "off" and plugged in during the summer. I've also seen the charger kick on while the car is off during the winter. It's kinda nice to know I can "just plug it in" and forget about it.

[@WeberAuto]

Awesome! Thanks for your feedback

[@joeaverager]

It starts the engine? I figure I'm misunderstanding b/c doing that in a closed garage would be really bad.

[@tomstdenis]

@@joeaverager not the engine. The AC compressor. The Volt and Bolt will thermally manage the batteries while the car is keyed off (e.g. not in the start or accessory mode)