2018 Sonoff 3-way Switch Scenario

[@JimmieMcCullough]

Here from DrZzz, nice video, very helpful, THANKS!!

[@MikeHardwickeBrown]

Great Video! Such an easy and more reliable way to hook up 3way sonoff.

[@TangoJones]

This was a great tutorial and very beneficial video. Not sure why 3 people gave it a thumbs down.

[@cysix4939]

Thanks Tango, hope your project(s) go well. No telling on thumbs down. Could be video quality (guy in his basement), too long, who knows. I only made it to help folks out. It's intended to be educational, not entertaining. I could care less about "building" a KZbin channel. I read/respond to sensible comments, but ignore trolls etc.

[@jeucedahn]

Hi, thanks a lot. This is quite a good video and the easiest setup for a 3way using sonoff I’ve seen so far.

[@stevebena]

Great Video, I watched Dr. ZZs video, he has a great explanation using 2 sonoffs but felt like he complicated things and added layers for potential issues. Sounds like you have a little more background in electrical! Awesome step-by-step!

[@cysix4939]

Thanks. The scenario DrZzs showed is different than the solution shown here because of the house wiring. If you can use the solution I show, it is superior; but, in cases wher power is supplied in the furthest box from the load/light you don't have much choice but to go with the solution presented by DrZzs. Of note, DrZzs came out with a new video explaining how to add a low pass filter to the circuit to eliminate spurious signals. It's worth a watch. I personally haven't experienced the issue, but if you do or simply want to eliminate a potential issue, he presents a solid solution. Good luck with your automation project.

[@gihadmurad]

Thank you for making this excellent video!

[@redabouazzaoui1976]

Excellent video

[@chopan52]

Very clear. For my new house I´ll use the second scenario (cheaper and simple to set up). Thaks a lot!!!

[@DanielNictheroy]

I do a little different so you don't have to send wire from one box to the other. Very similar to yours but I do not use the white wire between boxes. What I do, I connect the GPIO14 to house neutral (same that goes into sonoff neutral), and in the other box (box Z) I connect the common from the 3-way switch to the neutral as well. Neutral acts as a connection between both boxes to close circuit and activate Sonoff, without pulling a physical wire between boxes. Down side is that you need neutral in both boxes which in my house I'm lucky to have it in every box.

[@brunoaraujo741]

Thanks for the video!

[@robertporter1429]

Hi Jay!!! Where can I go to learn more about what you mean by "GPIO14"..... I know about wiring Sonoffs...but what is this GPIO14 THING?? I don't see GPIO14 port on the Sonoff Basic inside or outside...UPDATE....I JUST FIGURED OUT WHAT GPIO14 IS ALL ABOUT...so I have answered that question...but just to be sure, do you have to "Flash Tasmotoa" in order to be able to "turn on" the GPIO14 Port in the first place...... I see "how to flash it"....but does flashing alone make the gpio14 ok to "switch"....MANY THANKS!!

[@vento3232]

Hi Jay, Tried to follow your video but I'm still not sure what is the right configuration for me and how to wire the sonoff. I didn't a state table that shows the status of the switches in each scenario and the voltage passing through which wires, would it be possible to send it to you so you can take a quick look and instruct me with the right way?

[@cysix4939]

Sure... put the photo(s) somewhere like imgur.com or other photo site and post a comment with the link. I'll do my best.

[@vento3232]

@@cysix4939 thanks so much! I was actually watching your video again to try to figure out what I'm missing. I uploaded 3 pictures, one with the bundle of whites (N) box and the other has only red black and another black. The third picture is just the state table I made in order to understand, but I'm still confused. ibb.co/8csN9n5 ibb.co/njwPJmS ibb.co/ZH2ZSN8

[@philipstapleton2630]

Does sonoff make a cross over switch that could be placed in the "traveller wires" to act like a third switch in the circuit?

[@thomasburkholder817]

Jay do you have a video of 3-way config for using the sonoff Mini?

[@cysix4939]

Tomas, thanks for watching. I switched to using Shelly products (shelly.cloud) because they are much smaller for in-box installation. I didn't make another video because there's a ton of 3-way content over on the Shelly Facebook page. Haven't tried the Sonoff Basic.

[@maarten9844]

Because of my wiring, my two three way switches aren’t wired directly to each other but they are wired in a central point where power comes in aswell as the lamp itself. Any way how to solve this problem without pulling extra wire?

[@ptmoy1]

Thanks for the video. I'm confused on how to use this wiring setup to retrofit an existing 3-way scenario. On normal 3-way wiring, the common terminal on one switch is connected to line, and the common terminal on the other switch is connected to load. There are only two traveler wires between the two switches. On your video, looks like you need 3 traveler wires between the locations of the two existing switches. So I would need to somehow run a third traveler between the 2 switches for this to work. Is my understanding correct?

[@ptmoy1]

Ah, I should have looked in the wiring box before asking my earlier question. Looks like I may be able to get the third traveler by repurposing the neutral wire as the 3rd traveler (right now, it's wired nut to the rest of the neutral wires). Does this sound right?

[@hanifabaali3299]

Thank you sir. Can you help me please I heve install a scenario switch but i can't connect to wifi please sir tell me.

[@xmaranxx]

Hi Jay, very useful. One question: because of my installation setup I need to connect my sonoff basic like you did: 1 line in, 1 line out, but only with 1 neutral in ( I don't have access to the neutral coming from the light). Is it possible to do that without flashing and using the original firmware. If not, why is it necessary?

[@maarten9844]

Rodrigo Maranzana yes install the sonoff where the neutral wire is. So probably your ceiling/ where your light is

[@thomasburkholder817]

jay another question, does the basic fit in the existing switch box?

[@cysix4939]

I haven't tried the Sonoff Basic. Switched to the Shelly line of products which do indeed fit in most US standard boxes depending on what else you have in them.

[@Fatpumpumlovah2]

Question... can you not change wire from gpio14 to the pushbutton on the board doing away with having to reflash your sonoff? especially for the apple folks LOL...

[@edvinrushitaj]

Hopefully this video might prove very helpful to me but i have to ask prior making tests and fry the cables in my house. I have 2 lights in my living room and want to control them from 2 places. So i have 2 lights & 4 switches. My question is: how many sonoffs do i need? Can i use the diagram on this video for my case? Thanks in advance

[@cysix4939]

Edvin, so each light is controlled by 2 switches? Also, do you have US wiring or something else? If yes to the first and second question, you need to find out if you have power in the same electrical box that contains the wire coming from the light. If so, you can use the info in this video and you'll need one Sonoff Basic or one Shelly for each set of switches.

[@edvinrushitaj]

@@cysix4939 Yes Jay, each light has 2 switched. I have EU system but basically i think i have L+N in each of the boxes (because there are sockets near them). My main goal is: if the system goes offline - router, lan, cloud, rain and sun - at least i can turn on/off the lights from their respective positions.

[@Save_Andhra]

Jay, Can you review Sonoff mini with two way switch configuration, they added additional switch ports

[@cysix4939]

Thanks for your interest and the request. I believe the Shelly 1/Shelly 2 are better devices and so have no interest in purchasing the Sonoff Mini. That said, if you're interested, DrZZZ has some good comparison videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5fOinWNq9yhaqM AND 2-kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHesgaWArsenb5Y There's also a ton of 2-way/multi-way switch installation help on the Facebook Shelly Support group here (including some wiring diagrams from me): facebook.com/search/top/?q=shelly%20support%20group%20(english%20version)&epa=SEARCH_BOX

[@gee-rockgee-rock4468]

do you need to flash sonoff with this setup?

[@cysix4939]

The setup explained in the video was tested using both Sonoff devices flashed with Tasmota. I haven't really looked into recent stock software on the Sonoff products. Note that Shelly puts out a better product for in-wall/switch installation and I believe it requires no flashing. Take a look at the Shelly Support Group on Facebook and you'll see a ton of advice/recommendations for 2/3/multi-way switch configuration with their devices, including a few posts from me. Hope this helps.

[@rasgrego1]

Not an electrician you say? Well, I've learned more in 20mins than I had in the three years of using these sonoff switches. Your video was very instructive and informative and has totally opened up my eyes to other possibilities. Thank You Very Much Sir and please keep posting, your audiance awaits. BTW. I was wondering if it is possible to use a configuration that works the same way with the stock firmware. As you pointed out, using Tasmota with a server is not always reliable, and I like the ease of building scenes with IFTTT and ewelink app. Thanks Again

[@cysix4939]

Thanks for the kind words. I mostly bailed on use of IFTTT for anything home automation related due to the enormous lag/lack of responsiveness in IFTTT. It use to be snappy, but now it seems like they're running it on a Pi or something. I have no experience with the sock software on Sonoff, let me know how it goes if you decide to experiment.

[@bobgardner852]

I really enjoyed this tutorial but have a problem. My situation is just like the tutorial, the line and load are in the same box. I have hooked everything up and it works sometimes. If both switches are in the same orientation such that there is a direct line from IO14 to ground through either the red or white wire, the light is very stable but, if I switch one of the switches such that basically both IO14 and ground are not connected at all, I get random switching of the sonoff. This happens very fast such that the sonoff switches on and off in the same second. It is not steady but happens very regularly. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks.

[@cysix4939]

Bob you may need a stronger pull up resistor on GPIO14 than what the ESP naturally/internally provides due to the amount of electrical noise in your particular environment. Try adding a 5K pull up resistor between GPIO14 and 3.3V (power on the Sonoff pins). This will keep GPIO14 high unless the switches are set such that GPIO14 is grounded. It should eliminate the spurious/ghost switching.

[@bobgardner852]

We are obviously on the save wave length. I was experimenting today and added a 10K pull up and it has been rock solid since then. Thanks for sharing this video with the community.

[@muthukalyan3314]

great video. I have a situation that I can use Drzzz method and however I like to use your method. I have load on both boxes. But, there are only two travellers from one switch to the other meaning in first box the third wire is line to the switch and in another box the third wire is to the load. Do I need to run GPIO14 into first box in order for me to use your method?. I want to use your method and keep the changes to minimum. Or there are other options?

[@cysix4939]

Shoot me a link to a diagram of what you have in and between the boxes and I'll assist. It sound like you have the correct situation to use the method described in my video, but I don't want to advise without understanding your specific situation.

[@ericilkwatson5557]

Great video, but, it seems, the light switches will work, but I cannot turn on/off lights from Sonoff device. Is this correct? I just do not see how pressing the button will do it. If it will, it means that I will have to flip the switch twice to change it.

[@joe18324]

Hello, very nice video. From what I understand when you close the ground terminal to gpio 14 it closes the sonoff relay and turns on the circuit. If the switch is left in the on position will you still be able to turn off the light via software? Thank you

[@joe18324]

Never mind, I just noticed you have push buttons

[@gemzentaurus5537]

Whether push button or toggle switches are being used, the mechanical functionality of the switches will not interfere with the software functionality of the Tasmota flashed Sonoff. In other words, after flashing the Sonoff with the Tasmota firmware (Module setting: Sonoff Basic and GPIO14 sensor setting: 9 Switch2), if the light bulb was mechanically turned off/on at the switch, you will still be able to turn the bulb on/off via software...and vice-versa.

[@TheCharlieBrock]

Hello to all. Could someone help me figure out the wiring diagram for this setup, using a Shelly 1 instead of a Sonoff Basic? I just can't seem to get my head around this and any information would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

[@cysix4939]

Working on a video Charlie. Plan on having it out this week. Be sure you're subscribed to get the notification. Was held up getting hands on one and well you know... life.

[@cysix4939]

I posted wiring diagrams for multiple different 3-way and multi-way switch scenarios using the Shelly 1 on the Facebook Shelly forum here: facebook.com/groups/1686781668087857/

[@maki4u2]

any adverse effect if you turn on the light using physical switch then turn it off through app/software/wifi? if i flick the physical switch once would it change the state of the light? or i need to flick it 2x after changing the state using software/wifi/app?

[@cysix4939]

Not sure I mentioned it, but the intent is to use Tasmoda software with this configuration. If you do so, the reaction of the Sonoff depends on whether you're using push buttons or actual switches (circuit for both shown in the video). It also depends on how you have the Tasmoda software configured in terms of SwitchMode. Using actual switches, not toggles, SwitchMode=1 works with no adverse effects in terms of getting out of sync. With a push button configuration you want to use SwitchMode=3. I think DrZzs covers some of this in his videos. Also, here's the Tasmoda page explaining: github.com/arendst/Sonoff-Tasmota/wiki/Understanding-SwitchMode-and-SwitchTopic

[@maki4u2]

Cysix got it. I might have not caught the part about using tasmoda. I thought it was stock firmware... thanks

[@jeffchan6614]

Thanks for this nice video! But how about if I only have a sonoff and just one old school switch (one box)? How would the wiring look like?

[@cysix4939]

Would recommend watching this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGOTmaucirmDb6s Shelly 1 is a much better solution for a single switch.

[@gregfelzer9881]

Great video. This is the only solution I have found to control 3way lights but still have them functional if the HA server is down. I would like to do this with a 4way switch but I cannot think of a way to wire it. I have the power coming into 3way (s1), goes to a 4way (s2), then to a another 3way (s3), then to the load (light). Since the power and load are not in the same box I cannot figure out a way to wire it without running new wire. Do you know of a way to wire this with a sonoff?

[@cysix4939]

Greg see my comment right below re: the Shelly 1. I received one today from Amazon and plan on testing it this week. If it works as advertised it will be the goto solution for in wall switching vs. the Sonoff Basic. Once I verify the function I plan on releasing a quick video similar to this one explaining how to make if function in a 3-way/4-way/x-way scenario. Stay tuned...

[@gregfelzer9881]

Cysix, thanks for the response. I have read through every comment and I cannot find one where you reference the Shelly. Could you point me in the right direction?

[@drwatson2653]

Pretty sure the circuit for the GPIO pins aren't designed to handle mains power like this.

[@cysix4939]

Steve, thanks for pointing out your concern. Per the circuit I presented, GPIO is ONLY switched to the Sonoff ESP GND pin through the 3-way switches. It is absolutely NOT switched to mains current or the mains ground. If you do not understand the circuit, after watching the complete video, please DO NOT ATTEMPT to build it. Mains current can kill and/or start fires. Wiring the circuit wrong such that mains is put through the GPIO will at best fry the Sonoff. At worst, flame and/or kill you if you're handling the Sonoff at the time. Indeed the video is for educational purposes only. I do not recommend putting the circuit in walls/outlet boxes/etc. Sonoff isn't rated for such. I added a comment around similar Shelly devices that are UL listed and rated to put into appropriately sized electrical boxes.

[@amirsyed28]

Thanks Cysix, the problem is that we have power going into one box and the output to the bulbs from another. My goal is to use sonoff for my 3-way switches only in 1 box. Do you have a suggestion for me? I appreciate your help.

[@cysix4939]

The way DrZzs describes in this video will work of course using multiple Sonoffs coordinated through Home Assistant. I'm working on a solution to your situation, but it's non-trivial. When the power is in a separate box, you have to send power over to the load side using the common (white) and black. This leaves you with only one wire (red) between the boxes other than the ground. What I'm thinking right now is using the 3-way switch on the load side to channel a very small amount of current back to the line side box. Then I'd use a current sensor to detect that the other switch is thrown. I believe this will ultimately work, but it involves more hardware (likely >= cost of another Sonoff Basic). It also might require modification of the Tasmoda software itself (if so I'll fork it). I think a person would have a business case if you built a Sonoff Basic+ that accommodated this situation. Stay tuned ;-) kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXatdJ5jeddmeLM

[@amirsyed28]

I appreciate it Cysix. Hope to see your findings soon.

[@cysix4939]

A 4-way switch in the US switches two PAIR of wires. Given the Sonoff Basic (which the video shows) switches a SINGLE pair via a SINGLE relay, making it into a "4-way switch" would be an interesting physics/electronics breakthrough.

[@andreamitchell4758]

actually it only switches one wire the N wire just passes through it untouched so it only can switch one wire, the hot wire , this is why i said with multiple relays ,though this guy seems to have a found a way to do it with a node MCU and one relay kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZvIgoqrZ5irp9U it uses the same esp8266 as the sonoff basic and also has only one relay , maybe a similar method could be done with the another sonoff the ones that have extra input GPIO for sensors , i do not know much about all the different sonoff models but i thought i saw some with a way to hook up a sensor or thermistor or something(this could be used to connect a current sensor or diode to), he has another video where he does the same thing only he uses a diode instead of the current sensor just hard to get my head around it , i can not be arsed with home assistant MQTT and all that crap though, i use smartthings and i am looking for something simple where i can just use my FTDI to flash a FW to it and add a custom device handler to my smartthings IDE and be done with it the problem is that the sonoff does not make use of the 3rd terminal on the relay the COM terminal is just wasted , if you see that guys other video where he uses the diode instead of the current sensor you will see that it is indeed possible for them to make a sonoff model that can accomplish 4 way switching with the same minimal hardware , sorry i can't remember which video it is or what it is titles but you will see that he used a diode in place of the current sensor it is a video that was posted after the one i linked though

[@andreamitchell4758]

of course it is also a bit confusing for me because i only have 2 switches not 3 ,i have 2 3 way switches and he is showing 1 3way and 2 4 way switches , i would need to replace one of my 3 way switches with a 4 way switch and figure out how to wire it without the second 4 way switch in the equation i have not yet seen anyone explain how to do this easily yet and yet this is probably the most common use scenario i just want to use smartthings to turn the porch light on through proximity /geofencing and with a PIR sensor and still be able to use my 2 wall switches in conjunction with the smart switch , and have the smart switch as a 3rd 4 way switch , without getting into home assistant MQTT and that , i just want to run it through smartthings

[@supastyles1]

Is there a simple similar way to do this on a regular single switch? I like the still functions without outside intervention if needed.

[@cysix4939]

DrZzs has a whole series re: Sonoff. A couple of his videos give detailed instructions on how to wire up a single switch with the Sonoff (vs. the 3-way I'm covering here). Check out his series... kzbin.info/door/7G4tLa4Kt6A9e3hJ-HO8ng

[@gemzentaurus5537]

Kindly reminder: Cysix 3-way Switch wiring scenario will not work with the Sonoff stock firmware. Flashing the Sonoff with TasmOTA custom firmware is mandatory. How to flash the Sonoff with Tasmota custom firmware: kzbin.info/www/bejne/poezgZyPdtRrhKs

[@cysix4939]

Jose you are exactly correct. Thanks for the reminder for folks as I don't think I explained that point up front in the video.

[@MaartenVerheyen87]

Thanks for your video. I'm considering buying a SonOff to build some Home Automation. Will the setup in this video still work when WiFi & Sonoff are offline? Is it possible to build a 4-way switch with Sonoff included but that will still work when Sonoff is offline?

[@cysix4939]

Maarten, with the setup described in the video, the switches work fine regardless of whether or not the wifi is online. The switches simply signal the Sonoff to make/break the relay. The wifi is only required for the Sonoff to talk to home automation software like Home Assistant. This is different than some "software dependent" solutions that have a Sonoff in each switch and DEPEND on the Home Automation software to switch the light on/off. However, the Sonoff itself MUST be functioning or the switches won't work. The only reason the Sonoff should be down is if the Sonoff hardware is broken or the software locks up. So far I haven't experienced either situation.

[@cysix4939]

Maarten, it does work regardless of whether or not the Sonoff is connected to Home Assistant via wifi. But, the Sonoff itself running Tasmota must be working as it's what does the actual power switching based on the state of GPIO14. If the Sonoff dies or Tasmota software is frozen for some reason, your switch is also dead/won't work. As far as building a 4-way, 5-way or more, all you have to do is actually put one or more 4-way switches (they're actually called 4-way switches in the hardware store) in between the two 3-way switches you see in the diagram. If you're doing this, you might want to add a 5K resistor between GPIO14 and 3.3V/pwr to avoid "spurious" switching from ambient electrical interference as described in my response to Bob Gardner above in the comments.

[@aldotineo9195]

Should I use Hass.io or hassbian?

[@cysix4939]

I actually use neither. I have an Unraid server with Docker running. Using Docker I have separate containers for Home Assistant, Mosquitto, MySQL, etc. It's an advanced configuration for someone with Linux skills. You might check out DrZzs videos. He has some excellent ones showing how to setup and use Home Assistant in various configurations (link below or simply search KZbin fo DrZzs Sonoff)

[@cysix4939]

Haven't tried it yet, but this new device... Shelly 1... looks like a MUCH simpler and safer means of integrating Home Assistant with a 3/multi-way switch. Here's a video describing the basics. I'm going to give it a shot and post a new video describing it's use soonest. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGOTmaucirmDb6s

[@chrisweber6757]

Great video!!! Do I need to flash different firmware to use a 2 way switch?

[@cysix4939]

Chirs if you're talking about a regular US "2-way" switch, i.e. only a single switch, then Tasmoda works perfect and DrZzs has a great video explaining how to set it up. Check out his channel (link in the above description) for other videos that explain the basics of flashing the firmware etc. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5OXaGWXaZVgmdE

[@chrisweber6757]

Thank you for the information.

[@gihadmurad]

Hi Cysix, I finally had time to start installing the Sonoff boards, the first 3-way switch that I opened had a different scenario. Would you be able to help me? This is how it looks like: www.how-to-wire-it.com/images/x3-way-power-at-light2.jpg.pagespeed.ic.VbR1KouXon.jpg - Alll the wires meet in one box in my attic and I have access to it.

[@cysix4939]

Gihad, if you want to use the 1xSonoff method shown in the video, you'll have to put the Sonoff in the electrical box with the light where you have access to both the incoming power and the load (light) wires. I don't know what type of light box/fixture you have, so I don't know if it will fit or is advisable. Regardless, I'll work up a wiring diagram. Otherwise you'd need to use the 2xSonoff method with one in each switch box as described in DrZzs video (link in description).

[@gihadmurad]

Hey, thinking a bit about it it seems similar to the scenario you described in this video. I tried drawing it here: imgur.com/hoZGQ6V

[@cysix4939]

Yep you got it ;-)

[@gihadmurad]

Hi Cysix, I got he job done earlier today and it's working perfectly, however the wiring of the switches was a little different compared to your diagram from the video and the diagram I posted myself above. I decided to leave the switch connections as they were before I installed the sonoff. The difference is that Red from SW1 is connected to Red from SW2, white from SW1 is connected to white from SW2, and finally the black from each switch connects to the Sonoff GND and GPIO. The difference is how the switches are connected to each other. Although it's working correctly I don't fully understand the implications of the difference between the diagrams. Are you able to give some feedback? I put a picture of the switch (both are identical) and the diagram of the final setup here: imgur.com/a/HHyNJ Thank you again!

[@cysix4939]

Glad you got it working Gihad. I reviewed your photos and nicely drawn diagram. It's wired correctly. The wire colors don't really matter. What's important is that you you have GPIO14 and GND connected to the switched screw (usually black as shown in the photo) on each of the 3-way switches. That's exactly correct! Thanks for all the commentary... it will help others watching the video. If I have time I'll go back and attach your photos and diagrams to the end of the video, giving you credit of course ;-)

Do I need to flash a diferent firmware? Or it works with ewelink?

[@cysix4939]

The setup is intended to be used with a Sonoff Basic flashed with Tasmota firmware. github.com/arendst/Sonoff-MQTT-OTA-Arduino/wiki Videos by DrZzs do a good job of explaining the basics.

[@andreamitchell4758]

completely useless nobody wires boxes like that the only live is the live that is switched from the 3 way switch

[@cysix4939]

I have multiple lights wired exactly like this in my

[@andreamitchell4758]

nope i am in the US i want to control my porch light from smartthings and still use the 2 3 way switches i have inside the house to also control the light i want to add a smart switch as a 4 way switch when i replaced the porch light i can see there are only 3 wires, L N and G , so there is no way this can work , is there any 4 way smart switched from china yet or can you use a sonoff 4 channel switch and flash a FW to it that will make it into a 4 way switch so it can be wired in with 2 3 way switches? i assume you would need at least 2 relays to do it right? i don't why they don't just make a 3 ways and 4 way version that has multiple relays in it so frustrating just like those RF glass touch dimmers from china, they only have on FQ to toggle on/off instead of having separate FQ's for on and off which makes them useless for home automation , so frustrating they are so close but because of minor oversight they just make their shit useless i know that there are way to get them to make things cheap if you buy a large MOQ these factories will customize basically anything you want and you can get a good price if you buy i extreme bulk , i can not believe that some westerner has not already commissioned something useful yet, like those glass touch panel dimmers with seperate FW for on/off or an esp8266 smart switch that has 3 or 4 poles to be used in 3 way and 4 way switch configurations , and that they have not said hey that is a good idea and copied it and just started making them

[@mikegilmartin8111]

Really (and this will be my first post every after watching literally thousands of great videos). You seem so sure for someone who asks for additional help/instructions on every single site you visit having to do with SmartThings. I know because you posts are usually obnoxious so it is hard to forget. As to your rant on the cheap stuff we buy from China ....that is what allows makers to be makers not to mention has no relation to this topic. If you want an out of the box solution.....go buy a GE Smart Switch system. For a two way setup you need one of their main switches (~$40-$50) and one of their companion switches (~$20-$25). Furthermore, you still better understand how 3 way switches normally work if you plan on installing yourself because when properly installed.....the end product uses the existing wiring in a much different way and also depends on line and load locations. In fact, it is essentially the Dr ZZZZ method. This method not only works, it is more elegant, costs less, both switches continue to work if your software rules engine is down (SmartThings in your case), and when done properly....is safe. You should be grateful that people take the time post valuable information like this as opposed to posting your ignorant opinion which may have caused others to miss out. I actually had two 8266 modules in each box before I found this topic. Most of these topic assume a certain amount of basic knowledge (that requires some work on your part). About 60 seconds in and based on my working knowledge of how things work I knew exactly where he was going and felt like an idiot for using two chips or Sonoffs when one would suffice. For this topic you should understand a) AC versus DC b) how a normal 3 way switch circuit operates c) how to setup Tasmota on a Sonoff to be used with a simple two way switch d) what a ground wire is e) the difference between 12-2 and 12-3 Romex wire f) the nearest ER location. With that said.....I will try to help you: A 3 way switch uses more than "L N and G" unless some idiot wired your house using the ground wire as a traveler in which case.....you should call an electrician IMMEDIATELY. A 3 way switch has 3 terminals (thus the name within the US). One of the three screw terminals should be labeled common. Typically, it uses a black screw and is on the same side as the one that has two screws (yours could be different but anything you buy at Lowes or Home Depot today should be as described). The wiring in your walls should include black, white AND red (yes there is also a bare ground wire too) but as he clearly mentions in the video that is for metal boxes, not really necessary for plastic boxes used in newer construction, and has nothing to do with this setup per say (but you should understand what it is for if you are messing with your wiring). Also, as stated in the video, the white and black power in (line) white and black power to light (load) wires must reside in the same switch box. For example, another common configuration is power into the first box, and the light connection in the second box. THIS WONT WORK FOR THAT! Connect the black and white power in (line) to the inlet terminals of the Sonoff. Then connect the black and white wires to the light (load) to the outlet terminals of the Sonoff. As mentioned in the video, you can skip the white wire on the outlet as they are usually bundled together in the box because most standard two way switches simply break or connect the black wires and are therefore not connected to the switch. This is actually a helpful tip since cramming a Sonoff into a wall box becomes more difficult the more wires you have to connect. Why connect one white wire to the Sonoff? The Sonoff itself requires power to operate so you need a neutral (white) wire to complete the AC circuit path. In fact you can attach the white wire to EITHER the inlet or outlet. It does not matter which side because it passes right through the Sonoff. This is exactly the same as many other commercial smart switches and some LED dimmers (all the ones that say neutral wire required on the box and instructions because they have a Zwave, Zigbee, or Wifi radio in them that require power to operate). This AC current is also converted to DC current (5V and 3.3V) within the Sonoff because that is what the 8266 chip and relay that switches the AC current require. More often than not the neutral wires are usually all capped together with a wire nut and shoved way back in the box. Thus, the neutral connection is typically accomplished through a "pig tail" (a small piece of white wire added to the bundled ones and then that single wire can be attached to either end of the Sonoff). So at this point, assuming you followed the directions properly, if you did nothing else, you should be able to control your lights via your rules engine (e.g. SmartThings) or the push button on the Sonoff switch itself (that assumes a typical default Tasmota configuration) The Tasmota software allows you to utilize an unused GPIO pin (14 to be specific) inside the Sonoff to turn things on an off via a standard external switch. GPIO14 is the 5th pin on the end next to the ground pin you use if you flash the software manually ( see github.com/arendst/Sonoff-Tasmota/wiki/Sonoff-Basic) . Once configured connecting/disconnecting GPIO14 with the wire connected to the ground pin toggles the AC power. As a result, if you connect those two pins to a simple two way switch that opens or closes this connection (two screws so GPIO14 to one and ground pin to the other) to toggle the load. Key concept: since the wires connected to the switch are connected to the GPIO14 and ground pins operate at 3.3 V DC NOT AC power and are relatively safe to handle. The same is true of the proposed configuration in this video. In a correctly installed standard 3 way switch there will be a red, black, white, and bare copper ground wire running between the two boxes (Google "Romex 12-3" and compare that to "Romex 12-2"). This is not clear in the video (or maybe I ran off to implement and missed it) you DO NOT have total freedom in how you connect the GPIO14 and ground pins from the Sonoff to the 3 wires and 3 terminals on the 2 three-way switches. This is my recommended hookup since it follows a standard AC power setup: Simply put: The two non-AC carrying wires from the Sonoff (ground pin and GPIO14) need to be connected to the common screws (probably black screws) on the 3 way switches. Perhaps there is another combination....I would have to diagram it out.....but this one is easy to remember, describe, and definitely works. The one in the box containing the Sonoff is easy enough to connect because you only need a short piece of wire from the pin on the Sonoff to the switch. The one on the switch in the other box needs to be connected via one of the three wires (red, black or white) that runs through your walls. It does not matter which one of these 3 wires you pick but if given the choice I suggest the black as that seems the logical choice in my mind. The important part is if you choose black then connect the other end to the common terminal (black screw) on the second switch (one pin on Sonoff connects to common terminal of first switch and second pin attaches to common terminal on the other switch). The red and the white wires on either end can be connected to any of the two remaining screws on each switch. That is, the order does not matter. To summarize: Line In (black and white) - Connect to Sonoff Inlet terminals (AC Power) Load Out - Connect to Sonoff Outlet terminals (Neutral wire not required but hook it up if it makes you feel better) Ground pin inside Sonoff - Common screw on 3 way switch (usually black screw) (DC Power) GPIO14 inside Sonoff - Common screw on the other 3 way switch via 1 of three red, white, or black wires inside your wall that run between the two switch boxes (black is a good choice). The remaining two wires (e.g. red and white NOT bare ground) can be connected to the remaining two screws and the order does not matter. Again as this is very important....if the wires to the load (light) were not in the same box as the power source (line in) you would be mixing 110 AC with 3.3 V DC connections thru the 3 red, white and black wires that run through your wall and then ultimately (based on switch positions) to GPIO14 on the Sonoff. This would be dangerous and would definitely exceed the GPIO pins max voltage/current specifications. If you are lucky....the only casualty would be a cheap Chinese made switch that works great if you know how to use it.

[@andreamitchell4758]

thanks for the great detailed breakdown but unfortunately it does not help me at all because " For example, another common configuration is power into the first box, and the light connection in the second box. THIS WONT WORK FOR THAT!" which is exactly the setup i have and which is the same setup 99% of 3 ways switches are this was my original point of this being useless the last 3 way switch in the chain is before the load/light there is no constant live wire in the box just the N and 2 traveler wires i don't even think you can buy a GE switch either because how is it going to get powered? do they even make 3/4 way smart switch? also i need a non decora switch i have fancy matching custom copper switch plates i do not want to get rid of i need a standard type switch not decora, that netmedias channel has the closest solution i have seen but he never explains how it would be possible to keep the esp8266 powered in his video i guess he assumes that the box has a constant L in it which mine and most others do not , he used a voltage sensor in one video and a resistor and diode connected to one of the GPIO pins as replacement for the current sensor in another video pretty genius , but also pretty useless if you can not provide constant power to the esp8266 board the only solution i could come up with is using his method and then using 2 seperate AC to DC wall warts to get 2 separate 5v power supplies, one from each of the traveler wires since one traveler wire is always hot at a time and you would need to keep both traveler wires separated to keep the 3 way switch working properly so you obviously can not connect both of them to one AC to 5v DC wall wart or other stepdown circuit so the only solution i can come up with is using 2 of them for the esp8266 board ,node MCU , connecting the output of both of the 5 v outputs to the node MCU board so which ever way the 2 physical 3 way(or one 3 way and one 4 way) switches are positioned the node MCU will have power at all times,it may cause it to reboot though when a switch is flipped i can not think of any other way without tearing open the walls because my 2nd 3 way switch is the last one int he chain before the load an i have no constant L in the box , the box is a 2 gang box and both switched in it are 3 way switches and both switched are the last switches in the chain before their respective loads/lights

[@andreamitchell4758]

i have experience flashing esp8266 devices just not sonoff's and no i am not familiar with the tazmota FW though i have heard of it before i never used a sonoff but i have used similar relay switches that use quichip 433mhz RF ,i use a broadlink RM pro with those but they wire the same as a sonoff as the N wire just goes right through and is not switched but it is still needed to power the RF receiver