2021 Melee Tier List

[@dudewuttheheck]

I love how Zain says he thinks Pika sucks even though he personally loses to Axe. The humility and honesty is impressive. He says he's going to prove it to Blur (presumably by beating Axe) showing that he has confidence in himself rather than using any excuse as a crutch.

[@deejay4139]

Zain has the best mental game, possibly of any smasher ever.

[@Figgy20000]

Completely the opposite of Leffen who just bitches about match ups everytime he loses. The fact he thinks puff beats fox only because HBox shat on him is honestly the dumbest worst take I've ever heard in the history of melee.

[@Radarssbm]

Saying “pika sucks” doesn’t necessarily mean “pika sucks vs Marth” though lol

[@yobobby9]

@@Figgy20000 I dont even main fox but Leffen is usually right on the nail with fox vs puff/marth especially from a mental/tournament game aspect. IDK why so many people take it that way.

[@Figgy20000]

@@yobobby9 If by mental aspect you mean he gets tiltied because HBox fucks him up the ass every time they play sure. Lets not forget Armadas insane winning record against him tho. Leffen just can't accept that Hungrybox was always a better player than he was. Same as he still can't accept Zain is a much better player and changing characters is never going to fix that fact.

[@phiz2650]

zain: talking about matchups that actually matter me: focusing on why dk is higher than ganon

[@moddedpan4252]

I feel like a case could be made for it, DK has alright mobility and cargo throw shenanigans (he's also less commonly used than gdorf so the matchup unfamiliarity might give him an edge, not sure if that should influence tier placement or not though)

[@AnonymouslyHidden]

ganon on yoshi's is so good ppl don't even know

[@snailcakes9119]

@@AnonymouslyHidden ganon on yoshis is a tier higher but you only get it once

[@peytonwinstead3412]

Old thread but I play a lot of ganon and DK is better against spacies which should have a huge bearing on tier lists IMO. Ganon is better against floaties though

[@YURTZYN42]

@@peytonwinstead3412 DK and Ganon are both ass vs spacies and sheik. They're both generally better against floaties, Ganon is more explored whereas DK is better on a few more stages like Stadium and FD (Specific MUs). DK is better at edgeguarding and Ganon hits harder, they're quite comparable, but DK's mobility and better recovery gives him the edge, he's just less popular. Also Ganon is significantly easier to chaingrab than DK, so that kinda matters too.

[@Aefax]

the most honest tier list ive ever seen

[@sliceofpi2768]

Remember though: a skilled roy can beat any puff.

[@myboy_]

He's doodoobutter against puff other than up b cheese

[@sam.lipchutz]

By skilled do you mean TAS?

[@petrapine4995]

@@sam.lipchutz bro zain almost beat hbox in that set so no not at tas level

[@sam.lipchutz]

@@petrapine4995 he didn’t beat him and it was online and Hbox hasn’t been at his best and I don’t think he was trying his hardest

[@petrapine4995]

@@sam.lipchutz nice johns bro doesnt mean he couldnt beat him

[@jacobquackenbush2981]

I love that your tier list video isn’t 45 min long

[@IcebergSSBU]

We love your skits, but this is sick af to see a tier list from you! Keep doing the skits for sure, but I'm really interested in seeing more analysis videos from you! 😃

[@FlamingZelda3]

Censors every "shit" in the volleyball video. Says "sucks ass" 1,000 times in this one.

[@AnonYmous-ob7py]

Blame KZbin demonetizing people

[@jdotcash]

idc what no one says i fw tier list content. can’t have a sit down conversation with these ppl so it’s a way to pick their brain.

[@pIayingwithmahwii]

i can. i have had sit down conversations with several players, such as zain. i can call him zain cuz its his real name and we're cool like that, but its whatevs :P

[@lexkornelis9110]

I think it's funny how Roy and Marth's positions are pretty much flipped in Ultimate. It kind of shows how both games are played; Melee is about precise gameplay and long combos (which is sick) and Ultimate is just about running at people and beating the shit out of them (which is also sick)

[@GOODMORNINGOCEAN]

Finally a tier list that isn't 104 min long

[@Mahamaru]

Everytime Zain says Marth, he's pretty much saying "Me" or "I"

[@mjohnson2807]

Not really, he says pikachu loses to Marth. (Yet he loses consistently to axe) I can confirm as a pikachu main, Marth and peach are not fun and seem unfair.

[@sageosaka]

Stoked for the melee season to start back up again and see how much people have improved during the off-season.

[@mallow2902]

Finally, a man of culture understanding that Luigi is the superior Mario Brother.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Most people agree Luigi is better in Melee and Brawl. However, 64, Smash 4 and Ultimate, Mario is superior.

[@JoeSmith-db4rq]

Idk... I feel like I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I reallllly enjoy tier lists and even though lots of people get shit on for doing too many, I honestly wish MORE (especially very specific/niche) tier lists were made haha. For example, it's already doe decently often, but I think a matchup tier list against various characters (especially Marth) is always informative. What I'd really like to see though are much more specific tier lists (especially ones that only Zain specifically can answer), such as ranking off of "best secondary for a Marth main," "characters easiest to pick up with Marth experience," stage rankings (with analysis) for each matchup, etc.

[@peternguyen5314]

Dude, this is the type of videos that will grow your channel, if that's your goal, so please don't hesitate to upload them

[@mvdbergrede]

Zain might not like putting things on KZbin, but I like Zain putting things on KZbin

[@IstayHighAF]

You’re a smart guy Zain, even watching mango I see moments where he needs so much practice, and I’m a huge fan of his and falco main myself. I second Marth because it feels like an art to play him. But you outplay even what I can imagine with him.

[@diegobanegas9940]

I’m glady you decided to upload this it was amazing!

[@bfors8498]

Love the way this video started, let's cut right to the MEAT

[@Skapes11238]

Keep up the grind Zain, aka the MD/VA savior.

[@MitchBison]

good list. if sheiks start stepping up and winning big tourneys maybe i'll believe she's REALLY good (or maybe not cuz Wizzy and Armada won super majors with Falcon and Peach but those characters still aren't top tier). but i think she's in the tier with Falcon and Peach, cuz Wizzy and Armada proved those characters can solo win super majors, and, in theory, Sheik could too, but it just hasn't happened

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

It's really weird how it hasn't happened yet considering Pikachu has even won a Major. I guess part of the issue is that the 2 best Sheik players, being M2K and Plup, both have a lot of good secondaries so they can just swap in a secondary in a bad match up. Would love to see solo Sheik a Major though

[@SphazeTV]

I love tier list content

[@prizm9515]

M2K puts Marth at 4th best, and he's been playing Marth for a long time. I'm not sure what to think at this point. I think the top 4 are all very well balanced. But each are good in their own way. Seriously how did Sakuri make such a well balanced game in 13 months?

[@captainfalconmain6576]

I agree I don’t see jigglypuff higher than marth maybe falco tho.

[@zacharysteele]

thank you for not disrespecting Luigi like every other top player

[@FigmentsofFiction]

You know it's a Melee tier list when you have 2 tiers just to categorize "Sucks"

[@E-Brightvoid]

I swear I will show just how good Luigi is.

[@t9t9t9t9t9]

Said every player who just started playing a character xd

[@user-hd4pj8yf9s]

wow a tier list not drawn out to like ten parts

[@kingturdle9100]

why did I think this was gonna be a skit

[@danistardust8264]

because it is

[@juniors8745]

i dont think pikachu loses to marth, never, and capitan falcon, sheik, fox and falco beat marth, i know it because i m a marth player, the problem that i see here is that zain based this in his results and not in the reality

[@heyzeuscreestow9394]

Nah, git gud lul

[@juniors8745]

@@heyzeuscreestow9394 do you know how to write?

[@heyzeuscreestow9394]

@@juniors8745 Nah, I don't. I know how to type though. With yo run on sentence ass. :)

[@cedricrust9953]

Very funny seeing Junebug mentioned as "still the best Sheik at CCing vs Marth" in 2024.

[@sheridan5175]

This tier list is GOATed

[@AnonYmous-ob7py]

Personally I would swap fox and marth

[@Nikkerman]

The "marth beats falcon because fd is a factor" is so mdva lmao I love it

[@lee17eric]

Anyone know the song playing throughout 1:00?

[@user-wm5ot5uj3q]

Song starting at 13:48?

[@mahikmamun3711]

gotta respect the belief in marth

[@Champion_Vapor]

how does the meta change in melee, there is no updates or nerfs/buffs. (please dont harras me i play ultimate only)

[@boof5928]

it changes once new punish options get realized and implemented. Remember tier charts are based off tournament results not just the character in general. If people were to place higher in a tournament with a low/medium tier they'll be respected more as a character. That's what I think at least, correct me if I'm wrong^^

[@Champion_Vapor]

@@boof5928 thanks for the info, its amazing that a old game like melee still has a huge fan base.

[@danistardust8264]

players improve and so do strategies. The melee meta changes slower than a patch based fighter like Ultimate does, but over the course of years it will change of course. The same applies to games like 3rd strike, Marvel 2, and any other classic Fighter. Unless there's a top 1 or tier 0 character it takes a while for a meta to stale out. Melee runs so deep it'll be ages before this game days

[@raddude_1115]

Its also just hella fun to talk about the melee meta, everyone sees it slightly different and seeing tier lists from top players gives an insight as to how each sees the game

[@esthersmith3056]

does doc in the same tier as yoshi/pika mean that you believe that doc (if the right main came up) could win a supermajor in the modern era?

[@Yvs8962]

Spacie Mains: We lose to Marth Everyone: STFU STOP COMPLAINING GIT GUD LERN2PLAY REEEEEEEEEE Zain: Marth beats both spacies Everyone: Ok :)

[@crooker23]

never seen a sensible take from anyone with a falco pfp

[@ChristianTheChicken]

Get good

[@Yvs8962]

@@crooker23 I dont main Falco, and how is this even a take? It's literally what happens 😂

[@crooker23]

@@Yvs8962 everyone: spacies lose to marth but its pretty close, fox vs marth on FD is unreasonable but thats it really, pretty close matchup, 55-45 maybe spacie mains on twitter: 60-40 WORSE THAN FOX PUFF (WHICH IS EVEN IN TOURNEY BTW) IM DUAL MAINING FOX GANON CUZ SPACIES CANT DO IT everyone: get good spacies: NO

[@Yvs8962]

@@crooker23 Okay thats horseshit, “Everyone” does not/has not openly admitted Marth beats Fox until maybe very recently, ONLY because Zain said it himself. When it was spacie mains saying it y’all wouldnt even let them just speak honestly and would just bitch them out and dogpile them for talking about the game.Thats the point of my comment. Even then youll only concede slightly losing 55:45 when even Zain says they lose more significantly and they clearly do. Marth has been robbing spacies off hella low effort shit since the beginning of time, and yet people who have never played the MU from a spacie perspective gonna act like they know what theyre talking about and spacie players are full of shit when they talk about the MU 2. No one is tryna pick up Ganon for any MU. 3. No one thinks Fox loses to Puff, the most people complain about her is that shes boring and non interactive, and ALL mains do that. 4. Disingenuous as hell acting like everyone is civil with the conversation about the MU until spacie mains throw tantrums about it, thats complete BS. Leffen literally can’t talk openly and honestly about meta analyses of the MU without constantly being shit on and called a scrub. Literally just talking about meta and high level interactions that make the MU hard, totally reasonable, knowledgable, and legitimate statements get him dogpiled just for making the blasphemous claim that Fox loses a MU. Also you openly admit the MU is unrealistic on FD. How tf can a character possess a virtually guaranteed free game + momentum kill in every set, but the idea that this character might hard win the MU is ridiculous to you? Do you not realize how busted that alone is? Neither spacie possesses an equivalent CP, Marth beats them on every other stage as well, just the worst on FD, which is really what tips the MU from slightly losing to actually bad territory.

[@jonathanlgill]

Zain, would you make a video about your thoughts on M2K's Marth (when he was active)?

[@DctrBread]

You dont think samus is worse vs puff than pikachu? I think puff counters a lot of samus's strengths, but i also think that puff seems to kinda dance on pikachu without fear of retribution.

[@goodguycwyzz4768]

Remember when Armada and Leffen said puff was #1. Omega lol

[@Banquet_]

That sonic pinball music and streets of rage 4 🤙

[@mrogeliastico]

I agree with falco being really good, but he's really hard and gets comboed/cheesed pretty hard so that's probs the reason we don't see as much falco rep

[@TheMistUser]

What does Weirdos mean, exactly?

[@MrSeraphant]

Appreciate the youtube content

[@drMzfictiOn]

I feel like the Eh and Sucks tiers are all wrong. There really isnt that big a difference between mario and doc, DK is placed absurdly high just for his good spacies punishgame, and younglink has more to offer than mid Sucks tier imo. What stands out to me the most is DK though, feels overrated.

[@lsh6108]

Awesome video!

[@taytertot9382]

If only we got to see you try out P+ Roy for a bit. Would love to see how fucking sick you are with a Roy that’s actually good

[@PokemonWalkthroughDS]

My hot take is that G&W easily has the most untapped potential out of all of the low tiers, I remember there was a nasty G&W in the Toledo area who always did pretty well

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

I agree, I sometimes wonder how good he would be if you could L-cancel his aerials and if his shield actually worked. Considering he has chain grabs on Spacies and Falcon, and the fact that his neutral air is massive, I feel like he could be among the weirdos on this list at the very least. It's just sad that he was probably rushed during development

[@ADavidJohnson]

@@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569 as much purity as there is to Melee being unchanged for 20 years, a Melee+ that buffs some low tier characters with obvious fixes (like for Roy and Game&Watch) seems like it would be a no-downsides improvement to the health of the game. Nobody would get worse but some new characters could be in the mix

[@silafim]

marios a good character i will swear it on my life

[@FenderStratFan666]

Hello zain

[@Pi22aPino]

Did zain cut his hair now or not???

[@cise3895]

He did, but this recording was from a while ago

[@EA_SP0RTCENTER]

What song is 3:55 ? If my memory is right, its a wii song?

[@yaboi_burrus]

Wii U Download Management

[@Protopro91]

Was this FFX music?

[@bb97979]

Roy S tier

[@gigawhopper]

I see the SOR4 OST ❤

[@maliit0827]

Did you realize that Marth is higher than Fox?

[@Utopia1616]

Such a based tierlist holy shit

[@TheoryCrafter]

i havnt watched yet, but this video better have 15 humble brags

[@TheoryCrafter]

edit: disappointed

[@Cristeve]

This tier list sucks Zelda is considered Low-Mid Tier by most of the players

[@flixtwif]

i’m pretty sure everyone puts zelda at bottom 3 in the game

[@Cristeve]

@@flixtwif Bottom 3 characters are always Bowser, Pichu and Kirby

[@saotomebuster]

Obviously ZeldaFool hasn’t put the fear of god in you yet.

[@FlyTaka]

i think zain's right on that luigi is super untapped

[@KyokujiFGC]

Seems like a lowkey diss on Eddy and Abate, lol.

[@xzantos2477]

you should upload some !focus clips to youtube

[@nothankyou4859]

why do ppl keep ranking YL over link... ask anyone in the link/YL discord and they will say link is better in nearly every matchup except super floaties.

[@finmin2k]

yeah link is better it's just people not being too informed about the characters either way, especially how they compare.

[@yobobby9]

I feel thank Link is more of a gimmick than YL, once you get passed his wall hes very slow and semi fast faller combo food. VS Young Link who has better camping/time out potential with his faster movement and jump squat especially he seems more threating. Just that YL struggles OOS in some MUs and getting people out of CC percent.

[@salami4986]

Why isn’t fox f tier

[@malonee]

I knew this was cap when he put Zelda at the bottom

[@titanssouth1038]

Why is Yoshi a weirdo?

[@guyledouche7939]

Amsa confirmed Yoshi top 5

[@lifeiswonderful22]

Diggin the green hill zone

[@DannyCheezits]

Doc could totally win a supermajor hes just kind of a nothingburger character

[@koitsuga]

Correct list

[@MAEVELOVE1]

I hate the Marth over Fox thing going on. You have to be kidding.

[@HD-nb7kw]

Mango said both Fox and Falco could beat Marth.

[@Okamikirby]

surprised to see dk so high

[@yoshter135]

ICs are underrated

[@Brando550]

DK better than YL? really? i would disagree with that

[@vgmilo]

Zain is becoming so good that he thinks marth beats sheik and falcon damn it's really over for everyone else

[@vgmilo]

Falco #1 btw KappaPride

[@emanonomoi]

Marth *does* beat Falcon though. The consensus on that has shifted for a while. Shiek is still debatable though. The way Spark does against Zain seems like pretty hard proof it’s still even too, and historically it checks out.

[@EverythingisGoodieBud]

Tbf Marth does better versus pretty much every character except maybe Peach

[@Northwest_Seth]

Ohhhh Samus

[@malonee]

I know he didn't just put marth over donkey kong

[@orendamusic7577]

Marths worst matchup by far is marth lol

[@gareth4348]

I feel like 5 in the top tier is 1 or 2 too many

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

Yeah, I kinda disagree with Sheik being there because of the fact that solo Sheik has never won a major. Still a good character though.

[@negativesplits06]

Obviously Zain hasn’t seen Hbox’s Ness.

[@AllYourRAw]

Ness is better than Pichu at least

[@VinMann]

4:47 the actual ranking where falcon belongs

[@sigmundsoldier]

Finally someone that ranks Marth first.

[@AbigBlackcat]

There's two "Sucks" tiers lol why not combine them or rename one

[@sunnyfalco3339]

this shit litty 😜

[@IIIISai]

Big link is better than yink tho Lol

[@joelpettersson4055]

happy to se the SS rank removed

[@XenonAgenT01]

put gnw in the weird tier

[@bubblefish3210]

lets fkin go zain

[@yophi8275]

FOR THE ALGORYTHM

[@myboy_]

I'm a game and watch believer

[@Lampaluile]

Pikachu top tier

[@HoboSapien619]

Let’s face it. The only reason why peach is even considered top tier is Armada.

[@tysonfontanez]

There is no way in hell puff beats Falcon, that matchup is at best 50-50. Mad respect to Zain for not underrating his own character or overrating a character like Pikachu that he consistently loses to though.

[@BrokenG-String]

There's no way Mewtwo is better than Link. Link is much heavier, has more kill moves, better projectiles, more combos, decent throw follow ups, and mixed recovery options.B R U H

[@CreamyPesto505]

Zain put Marth first because he thinks no one can beat him.

[@kupaxykalee4454]

game n watch is so good tho

[@pcrsweetness]

g+w is definitely way better than mewtwo IMO