2022 HOTAS ROUNDUP! (12 Systems, Sticks & Combinations)

[@WatchMysh]

(expand comment for some corrections and additions to the video content) Happy to see you in the comment section! :) If the video was helpful please share it around if you feel like it! It helps more than you can imagine. If you want to support me to someday go "KZbin pro", then drop me a super thanks or use my affiliate links! Here's some additional info and corrections: - The NXT EVO Premium adds another 5-way hat instead of the button on the side of the stick (thanks to brettjaffee9697). - The X52's cable between stick and base tends to lose connection. First sign: blinking LEDs. The stick is not dead. Just reconnect or replace (thanks to mariotomazzoni6523). - The CM3 throttle has over 32 switches which can be a problem with some games. The workaround is to configure it to appear as two separate devices, which allows 64 buttons (thanks to frankenberry9670). - CH products does flight equipment, too. It's quite rugged but ancient in design (8-bit precision, only unfiltered potentiometers, thumbstick axis on throttle jitters) and sometimes difficult to get outside of North America (at weirdly varying price points). With the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Standard available at the same price I consider at least the stick obsolete. Because of all these issues combined I left them out. (thanks to Pete McGwire) - The X-56 uses hall sensors on the X and Y axes which I forgot to mention (Thanks to animatek6171). - All the t16000 stick's switches are membrane switches with exception of the trigger You can buy me a coffee here if you want to say thanks and support the channel: ko-fi.com/watchmysh

[@EdwardBoudreaux]

This needs to pinned at the top of r/hotas. You just summarized hundreds of threads of advice into an easily digestible package. Well done.

[@WatchMysh]

Wow, thanks. That's quite close to getting knighted.

[@hodr1000]

This is a good comment

[@gromm93]

I was about to post it, but I'll assume you already made that request.

[@EdwardBoudreaux]

@@gromm93 Sorry for the late reply. I did not post it. The mods don't generally pin stuff like this, and most people don't look at pinned posts before making a new thread anyway. My pessimism won out. :(

[@WatchMysh]

@@EdwardBoudreaux meh. But thanks for the effort :) I guess we'll have to keep replying to every single thread then. Even within the last three days there were like 10+ "should I get the t16000 or VKB" postings.

[@ziya4426]

wow, best 15 minutes of researching ever! thanks for cutting out crap and making a good tutorial

[@odonovan]

I've used the Logitech Extreme 3d Pro for many years. It's far and away my favorite, and I've owned probably 20 joysticks and HOTASes. It's EASILY the most ergonomic stick on the market. After multi hour missions, your hand will thank you for using it. The thumb button, mounted flush with the surface of the stick, is my favorite feature. It's my go-to "push to talk" button. If you treat the 3D Pro well (don't slam it around) it lasts a good, long time. In fact, I've even bought a few from flea markets and thrift stores, some for as low as $5. Each calibrated perfectly, when I got it home and cleaned it up. In the time it takes for one to wear out, you have MORE than gotten your money's worth out of it. You can just buy an extra one and keep it nearby, for when yours wears out. When you can buy ten 3D Pros for the price of one high end stick, you'll still save TONS of money over buying an expensive stick. If you want a second stick, and you don't need twist/rudder or a hat switch on the left-hand stick, pick up a used Logitech Attack 3 (as they don't sell them new anymore). It's ambidexterous and just as ergonomic as the 3D Pro. They make an excellent dual stick setup for space games. Again, do NOT slam them around. Be gentle on the controls and it will last you many years.

[@Riddle99-v7q]

I've got the 3D pro as my first stick but it quickly developed quite an noticeable deadzone in the neutral position. Been pretty frustrated as a fairly poor person that the next stage in hotas setups have quite a large jump in price at least here in europe. The VKB Gladiator seems exactly what i'm looking for but i would like get a throttle alongside it.

[@greedsmack]

I have an X56 right now, and it took me almost a year to get it into a workable state. The throttle draws a massive amount of power, so much so that it has ghosting issues while hooked into a 12v/5a powered USB hub. The solution is to plug it directly into a USB 3.2 port on the back of your motherboard. After getting it working, I quite enjoy it although the throttle does get sticky at times. I think I’ll be getting the Virpil setup next. This video was fantastically made and you deserve a LOT of praise for making it. Great job!

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks :) You'd already experience a massive step upwards in precision with an NXT EVO.

[@jeffthuot5631]

No offence but it took you a year to find out it's better to plug it straight into the PC?

[@greedsmack]

@@jeffthuot5631 it had to be a specific port on the PC and I didn’t realize that different generations of USB sent more power than others. But also yes, I’m not a smart man.

[@RocketToTheMoose]

Note, the VKB NXT premium also adds another 5 way hat, versus the single gray button on the side of the stick that the standard has. Several of the shots in this video show the standard when they should show the premium and vice versa.

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks for pointing this out! I completely forgot about the lower 5-way hat... I added your correction to the sticky comment! :)

[@Erpyrikk]

the premium comes with both options so you can configure to your liking.

[@RocketToTheMoose]

@@Erpyrikk True, I have one, though I don't know why I'd ever want to downgrade it.

[@theoneneo5024]

I love the feel of my NXT EVO but the setup on most games is a huge pain the butt. I just wish this stuff was more plug and play with simple customization if needed.

[@elFulberto]

I remember buying Thrustmaster's HOTAS that looked identical to T-Flight all the way back in 2003. It's kind of endearing to see they still produce flight sticks in the same shape twenty years later.

[@WatchMysh]

I also had one of them around 2003. :)

[@pwouet5155]

Yeah, got one too, never got supported for Windows 7 while looking exactly the same. Promised myself I would never buy this brand again.

[@TheKermit2110]

This was an excellent summary with no-nonsense recommendations delivered in clear, simplified language. Thanks

[@WatchMysh]

Thank you. You're welcome :)

[@TheKermit2110]

@@WatchMysh what combination would you recommend for a budget of £450, upgrading from thrustmaster T-flight, where twist-stick rudder control is mandatory. I don’t want to get separate rudder peddles.

[@WatchMysh]

@@TheKermit2110 Oh sorry I overlooked your comment. :( Did you already get something? For 450 pounds you could look into the WinWing Kit with twist upgrade. It's a bit more expensive but well worth the money. Otherwise you could get a VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium and combine it with a second hand Warthog Throttle. Would be a very nice setup as well.

[@TheKermit2110]

@@WatchMysh many thanks, does the winwing kit come with throttle? That’s a brilliant deal considering the twist upgrade in that price.

[@WatchMysh]

@@TheKermit2110 Yes, it's the Orion2 package. But you need to check prices in pounds. I only checked €. It will be more expensive than 450 esp with the upgrade. But it's such a good set ...

[@FS2K4Pilot]

The Warthog also has Idle and installable AB detents, two hat switches on the throttles, and has an interchangeable stick grip for an F/A-18.

[@FS2K4Pilot]

The Warthog also has the advantage of being a bit less customizable than the Winwing or Virpil models, which can make it a little less intimidating to someone who’s just moving up to a high end HOTAS. One thing I’ve done with mine is to add a two foot extension to mine so I can use it as a legit floor-mounted center stick. All you need is a couple threaded adapters with 33 mm threads on them, some 1”/25 mm pipe, and a video cable with male and female 5 pin Din plugs. Unfortunately the threaded adapters can be hard to come by in the States, but I understand that they can be found in Europe. There’s plenty of how-to guides for how to make such an extension on the internet. This also has the advantage of covering up any stiffness in the gimbal. You do have to shorten the x and y axis travel, though, otherwise you’ll have to move the stick from Kalamazoo to Hoboken and back to get your full movement range.

[@bf3knifer]

i was absolutely livid with thrust-master when they voided my warranty after i tried to fix the stiktion issue on the thrust-master warthog joystick, when i reassembled it there was a problem that i could not overcome, i ended up throwing it in the bin, and got a virpil base, so much better, the stiktion problem was severe for many months i could not fly smoothly at all, it was a nightmare battle every time flying - as a beginner it really knocked the stuffing out of my learners phase. i only bought it because i read so many reviews where people said it was the best, honestly there must have been some sort of jedi mind trick or mass hypnosis because it is garbage (or shill reviewers). So happy that you called a spade a spade, havnt seen a review yet that called out this issue for as bad as it is. Thrust-master just stone walled me, being treated the way they treated me was worse than throwing money down the toilet by buying their product.

[@WatchMysh]

It was the best over a decade ago. Guess reputation sometimes lasts almost forever. Nice you got sth of real quality now. Which base did you buy?

[@bf3knifer]

@@WatchMysh i got the virpil warbird, soft springs, works an absolute treat

[@ccclll987]

I have the x-56 and it works perfectly. i had for years now. I read of people complaining, but personally i didnt experience any problem except the size of the stick itself which is undoubtedly too big. The extra buttons are a JOY though, sooner or later you're gonna need all of them to open menus, navigate on DDIs, control the radar etc. I think it really gives you an edge in many occasions.

[@davebooth5847]

The Rhino got a bad press because it was introduced when Saitek was owned by MadCatz and - quite frankly - that era was the era of completely f-ed up quality control in the Saitek stick series. An X52 or X52pro from BEFORE that time will still be turning and burning. Both of mine are, as is my X32 from before the days of USB HOTAS setups! Guys I recommended either X52 stick to on the basis of my experience told me I was full of it as the MadCatz versions they bought were either Crap-on-arrival or very quickly failed due to the shortcuts taken in production quality. Now, however, the brand is owned by Logitech. Logitech will not put up with shipping out crap, they've tweaked out a lot of the design flaws introduced by MadCatz. My buddies have had a better experience using more recently-produced X52 variants. Sadly, though, it can often be hard to tell whether the item you're ordering is the *current* production or "new old stock" from the Age of Craptacular. I made sure that the X56 I bought was recent manufacture, overseen by Logitech, and not an old stock clearance item. It remains as solid and drift-free as the day I bought it.

[@ccclll987]

@@davebooth5847 mine has the brand Saitek on it

[@Crispkind]

@@davebooth5847 Thats 100% my experience. I wanted to buy the x56 back when it was produced by saitek but then Logitech took it over and instandly removed it from the market. Then in January of 2022(at least in germany) They re-released it and the new Version they are making is an absolut beast. Tho jea, the Stick is a bit big and the throttle tends do "stiff" a little if you dont use it, wich is obviously caused by the tentioning System and i dont think thats something you can avoid in this pricerange. If you move it Back and forth like 3 oder 4 times its instandly back like you set it up tho. All in All from my view the best Stick/Throttle combo for 200-300 bucks

[@davebooth5847]

@@Crispkind Yeah, that's a feature of "pinch tension" clutches - a known issue on everything from control levers to mic stands. Leave it unmoving for too long (which can be as little as 24h) and it's gonna "stick" and take some extra force to break free and start moving smoothly again. Our HOTAS throttles need *something* to simulate the mechanical resistance of a throttle linkage but the engineering to not have the "sticktion" of a pinch tension clutch is NOT trivial and won't be found in a HOTAS at this price range. I'll take it, honestly. Working the stick and throttle through their full ranges until they are moving smoothly and feel "right" is just part of my "preflight."

[@TheMNWolf]

I agree with 99% of everything and I've used a bunch of these sticks. The one thing I will say is I have been using a thrustmaster hotas warthog for legitimately 10 years and I've never had issues with the cup and ball on it. This is the king of cup and ball, even though I agree that dual cam is superior. For the record, I upgraded to hosas recently (actually a custom configuration i call hotasas) and I used a constellation alpha prime with CM3 base for my left stick. Once you go metal you just can't go back. I also can't stress enough how powerful the thrustmaster target script editor is. If you know C/C++, you can damn near program an entire game in the script editor.

[@twistedsphere]

Good job on this breakdown. i have the T16000M combo and a pair of Constellation Alphas, and thought your assessments of both were spot-on.

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks :)

[@NegativeROG]

My Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold USB has lasted me forever, is super comfy, and at the time was expensive at $50, but now is cheap in comparison. It has logged 10's of thousands of miles in Microsoft Motocross Madness 2, and is still going after more than 22 years. The headphone jack on the stick is a 200 IQ play.

[@DoomOfConviction]

He seriously showed the fighting the world cover when he said made of steel. I instantly love this guy! I had a Thrustmaster Warthog and have a X52 and a VKB Gladiator and I don’t really don’t need a extra trottele.. I use simply the area around WDSA on my keyboard as a throttle. Its less immersive but I can use my keyboard with double and triple key assignment blind and never had the same luck with all to doohickeys on a throttle.

[@WatchMysh]

Steel is strongest,...

[@mournstar4578]

Thanks for the great overview of the pro's and cons of each setup. I went for VKB to expand in in the future.

[@WatchMysh]

Good choice! :)

[@sirchessic]

This was such a helpful video. My t16000m just crapped out after like 6 years (lucky i guess) and I am so out of touch with the market. You crushed it. TY.

[@WatchMysh]

Happy to help :) and happy new year!

[@ThrobbGoblin]

I bought the t16000m setup a couple years ago, and I really regret it. I didn't anticipate how painful it would be trying to memorize the layout of an entire throttle + stick without any BUTTON LABELS 🤣🤣🤣

[@WatchMysh]

Then wait until you upgrade to a device with 3x the controls :D

[@ThrobbGoblin]

@@WatchMysh hey, as long as they're labeled 😂❤️

[@ThaWoundedFox]

Vkb is the best out of all price ranges period. I'm surprised he didn't mention this. It is customizable and fully modular, making it also repairable unlike the competitors. He didn't account for this, but it's worth noting. Vkb is better than the most expensive virpil setup. Each individual peace is also sold online. Want to go up to another or the most expensive vkb setup? No need to buy another product. It's just a simple conversion. The parts are sold individually online and can be easily interchanged, saving u money. Vkb baby.

[@WatchMysh]

Hey, thanks for this additional Information! I have to cut out stuff to keep the video at a digestable length for its intended purpose as a market overview. Also I have no personal exp with VKB stuff above the Gladiator. I'd love to review and disassemble a Gunfighter and do a dedicated video about its upgradability. Talked to a guy recently who basically told me the same you just did. VKB devices seem to be a breeze to work on because they are designed to be upgraded and repaired. //edit: oh btw: there's a 2023 version of this video btw where I give VKB a lot more credit than in this one.

[@ThaWoundedFox]

@WatchMysh yes! U did a very good job. I just wanted to make sure that the people understood that the most expensive doesn't necessarily mean the best. But I appreciate the amount of time spent detailing and making this video. U have alot of experience and know your stuff! Thanks for sharing the information and helping people when it comes to purchasing a hotas/hosas. 👍🏾

[@WatchMysh]

@@ThaWoundedFox can't emphasize this fact enough (expensive ≠ best). :)

[@Mobius395]

For a few years now, I've used a combination of the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro with the TWCS throttle - not the greatest, but it got the job done on my small budget. After both of those finally started to die, I bit the bullet and upgraded to the equally-strange combo of the VKB Gladiator NXT (premium model) and the Winwing ORION 2 throttle. Expanded my options a lot. I have to say, this video does a remarkable job at summarizing pros and cons without a lot of unnecessary commentary. I'll be pointing people here when they're trying to get into flight sim gear.

[@WatchMysh]

That's a great combo I completely overlooked.

[@bluecordterrainmanagement]

Great comparison. I wish I'd found your video sooner. I've been using a full CH setup for 20 years and FINALLY replaced it with the Warthog and I'm very disappointed with it, even with the magnetic base. I had it for about 2 hours and then visited some forums to learn more about what's out there. I had never even heard of Virpil until 2 days ago and immediately decided to buy a top end Virpil setup and I really excited to try it!

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks! :) You'll not be disappointed with Virpil.

[@bluecordterrainmanagement]

@@WatchMysh Except for what I hear is a constant backorder situation. I think they told me it would take about a month

[@WatchMysh]

@@bluecordterrainmanagement Yes. They are producing on demand I guess since they are still small and relatively new to the business.

[@KennyTheB]

I have a winwing Taurus and Libre setup. They're steeper in price, but they're totally worth it. These things are built beefy. The extra functionality of the F-18 throttle and switch panel setup really make a big difference in terms of thrust control and systems control without having to remember keybinds. The stick also lets you tune and readjust center so you never get center wobble with the joystick after a few hundred hours. (They have instructions on their site how to do this.) Can't recommend them enough.

[@jebb125]

running the libra, and orion 2. cant agree more... they get more use then the cm3, wish winwing came out with a warthog throttle handle.. I fly the A10c2 more and more these days. and the F15E when it hits in a few weeks uses the same

[@ShaighJosephson]

As an Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen player, I found that a Warthog stick and gaming mouse on right and a Razor keypad on the left works best without breaking the bank... The keypad is better than using a throttle for no-look control of thrusters and rudder given that the Warthog has no twist for rudder... I use the floating low hat on the Warthog for throttle control... Big throttle controls are more immersive, but much less efficient than using a keypad... This setup works like a charm for ED and SC with an immersive replica of a real flightstick for under $500...

[@ChrisM541]

That's a fantastic, intelligent setup. Your keyboard + mouse + Warthog gives you a pretty ultimate setup that allows you to control pretty much everything...at your fingertips.

[@bme7491]

I upgraded my TWCS with ball bearings, glides nicely now. I'm combining it with the gladiator nxt evo joystick and dumping the T1600 POS.

[@WatchMysh]

Nice upgrade!

[@yureinobbie68]

I got myself the VKB Gunfighter + pedals, as well as the Virpil CM3 throttle unit a while ago. It´s an amazing combination. I had taken the Gladiator NXT into consideration as well, but went by gut feeling. I´d probably pick the Constellation, if I was buying today, but I have no regrets, all in all.

[@WatchMysh]

That's an excellent setup!

[@patriot0321]

This is what I have been looking for. Thank you!

[@leslieviljoen]

This is a superb overview of the options, thanks!

[@aequinoxsummer9122]

Thumbs up for including more premium brands like VKB and Virpil!

[@WatchMysh]

There's a new 2023 version of this roundup with even more stuff in it :)

[@MB-xx6xc]

Great video!!! Thank you for helping us old dinosaurs what to get!

[@BrockvsTV]

This is a wonderful video, thank you. I run a logetick throttle quadrant and a Microsoft sidewinder with some CH Pro rudder pedals. It gets the job done for IL 2 but I’m scared to try it in dcs. My next buy I think will be the VKB Gladiator and either the 1600 throttle or VKB’s ww2 one. Then also think of the Logitech heavy equipment side panel. This is my budget dream but I also need a bigger desk and a bigger apartment. So no idea when. But I appreciate this video

[@CanadianFabe]

I own the thrustmaster T16000M plus the rudder peddles and found it works great for Elite:Dangerous. I can map pretty much any control to the stick and throttle giving me full hands on control of my ship.

[@rstoddart5727]

best review ever... I have been smashing my head trying to work out the best controller, this has helped so much, thank a million

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks :) Happy to help :)

[@kevinm3751]

I have owned 2 X56 HOTAS systems and have only had problems with one of your rants about it and that is the throttle being sticky but nothing a grease change does not cure and it is far better in the budget range that the POS Thrustmaster joke you claim to be king and easily sets just below the VKB!

[@WatchMysh]

Grease doesn't change anything if you have the "real" sticky throttle issue. I'm happy for you having so few problems with the X56. Most people don't. Open up the X56 and take a look inside. Then compare it to the VKB. You will likely come to the conclusion that it doesn't set easily below it... But rather some miles away. But if it works for you that's fine. :)

[@hanzandfranz5337]

I got the t 16000 used and have had it for 2 years. Besides a little stick drift on the thrust thumbstick it has held up really well. I use it for dcs and msfs. It has been a great stick and throttle. I feel that as long as you aren't too aggressive with it or throw it in a fit of rage than I think its probably the best entry level stick and throttle for someone who is interested in flight Sims.

[@WatchMysh]

Yes, it is. But it can break even if you're very gentle. My t16000 stick was 100% okay after 2 years of use. Others started to drift or had twist malfunctions after just 6 months. But that's what warranty is for. :)

[@hanzandfranz5337]

@MYSH I guess I've been very lucky with mine then. Thanks for adding an extra input on personal experience. I'm not sure how old mine actually is considering I bought it second hand. It's possible the owner before me rarely used it.

[@WatchMysh]

@@hanzandfranz5337 Yep. I also guess taking care of and not putting more stress than necessary on your equip can never hurt. Bought mine second hand, too. Like a year old or so.

[@commanderosis435]

This was a comprehensive video. Good mention on the turtle Beach. I didn't know they made a joystick

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks. :)

[@420metalguy]

i got the vkb nxt space sim combat premium edition dual stick setup its amazing for space games really good in squadrons as well, plan on adding a virpil throttle down the road when i get more into traditional flight

[@WatchMysh]

Nice setup!

[@mikschultzyevo]

Only thing I would have loved to see was some HOSAS discussion. Thank you for the video

[@WatchMysh]

Yes - I only touched the topic slightly. But I had to leave stuff out for the video to stay at a reasonable length.

[@ImaITman]

Love the review, I did find it funny when you were talking about ones that have enough controls to fly 3 planes. The whole time I was thinking, nahh I play SC. You could give me 300 inputs and I'd use them all eventually :)

[@ДмитрийЗагниборода-е9я]

As for me this is the best review for such devices

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks :)

[@papacharlie2841]

I am running a TM Warthog HOTAS with the TM TRP pendulum pedals with the monstertech mounts. Great product and although the HOTAS is a few years old, it is still performing great.

[@johnwatrous3058]

It better for the money.

[@DraxTheDestroyer]

That Virpil combo setup is my dream! I love flying DCS but I can't afford gear like that yet.

[@MARBOOMUSIC]

Whish I found this video before the holidays. Best review on youtube!

[@WatchMysh]

Wow thanks :)

[@aspicboat]

as a beginner, this was very useful to me, thanks

[@archibaldikowski3646]

Great comparison, I'll go with the mid range option, thanks a lot!

[@Sodacan56565]

for any drifting use deadzone for example dcs, press axis assign then press on pitch, roll or rudder and then axis tune and turn deadzone up

[@peterpycke2030]

I keep being amazed by the constant forgetting of the premium vkb line. The gunfighter base with stick is amazing for a few bucks less than VRP.

[@WatchMysh]

It is and I did mention it. Just had to cut out stuff to keep the video at a digestable length. :) Thanks for watching!

[@Thomas-vi5yw]

Great Video. What would be your recommendation for using with Xbox as it seems to me that the options are far more limited? Thanks

[@karlhungus545]

Excellent video. You hit all the points, except you should also mention that the Warthog throttle also needs to have the slew sensor replaced if you actually want to be able to use it in DCS...so even more money. The Gladiator NXT with a TWCS throttle is the price/performance champ. I paid $77 USD for the throttle (new), although I think it would be hard to find it for that price now. It works brilliantly for DCS and IL2. The only upgrade I may make someday is to the Winwing throttle. Pedals for flying helos are mandatory. I splurged and bought the MFG Crosswinds because I love flying helos in DCS. They are not necessary however if you only want to fly planes, although they are nice for WW2 planes.

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks for the comment! Why does the slew sensor need to be replaced for DCS?

[@karlhungus545]

@@WatchMysh Its very jumpy...not smooth compared to something like the TWCS throttle. A lot of people that buy one mod it with a kit you can buy.

[@WatchMysh]

@@karlhungus545 ooh ok. Didn't play DCS back then when I had one. Was okay with IL2 though.

[@karlhungus545]

@@WatchMysh Yah, for IL2 you don't need the cursor on the MFDs. Even in the face of a lot of competition now, TM is still relying on brand loyalty to sell the Warthog as they haven't fixed any of the issues with it.

[@Staggered0]

I have gone through 2 X56 Rhinos, both of which lasted under a year of light use. First one I got was practically broken out of the box, the friction wheel was cranked down so hard from the factory it snapped the second I tried to adjust it and friction was then permanently locked on full. Logi sent a replacement but this one after about 6 months of use started to have intense calibration problems, and would no longer be usable for anything as no amount of software troubleshooting fixed anything. I gave up and got the t16000 kit and its been flawless for years.

[@Crispkind]

Sounds like Saitek Versions tbh. the reworked Version that are acutally produced by logitech(they took it of the market for 3/4 Years) is acutally quite nice

[@Staggered0]

@@Crispkind I am aware, I purchased mine both through logitech. this was 2019-2020.

[@permissiontoshoot5036]

I have the X52 (silver)for a budget stick and throttle, use it for DCS great price and functionality - fully programmable, you can also save profiles setup for different sims. I have had mine for 16 months, no problems, it's as good as they day I bought it. If you have money to burn yeah the Warthog would be my choice but realisticly most people are on a budget, no need to spend £600. Informative video for those looking for a hotas.👍

[@rikkovan9987]

My X52 lost its precision after some month, which causes flickering on axes now. Also the stick-center feels not real. Display-functions are useless. SW is outdated and quite bad

[@Topper_Harley68]

It is garbage.

[@denisgundogan1666]

what is garbage?@@Topper_Harley68

[@mariotomazzoni6523]

Good overview, but a critial info about the X52 and X52pro is missing: the connection cable between throttle and stick tends to slip out of its sockets, causing the stick to malfunction. First sign for that: LEDs blinking. It can be prevented by mounting the stick on a wooden board or HOTAS mount & strap down the cables and or use a new connector cable (IBM PS2 plug 2 plug, MINI DIN 6). Also the throttle can be used with an other stick, so if the stick breaks upgrading to a better one is possible.

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks! I'll add that to the sticky!

[@NavyGuy2OO7]

I've had my X55 for years now with only some minor rewiring a while back. Been thinking of picking up the winwing.

[@Vaffi]

Thanks a lot for this video. Which there would've been something like it in early 2021. I've bought the X-56 Setup last year after the Z-axis of my X-52 broke after 10 days. I hoped for more durability and ignored the height of the stick itself which seems to be made for Yeti hands. So far it worked "fine". The material is a step up from the X-52 in my opinion, but not that much. After a few weeks the squeaking you've described kicked in, while ghosting issues became more and more of a problem. Not much, but when leaving the stick in a neutral position, vehicles were drifting to the side and calibration for some titles became difficult for some reason. Back then most reviews praised the X-56 Hotas for being a good setup for this price range. I can't disagree more now. Currently I'm having a lot of fun with Star Citizen, which finaly is getting into a playable state with more and more upcoming features. So now I'm looking into more pricy Hotas or HOSAS Setups, to make the experience more immersive overall and get rid of the X-56. Many SC players love their Virpils, but VKB is a strong contender in this community as well. I didn't make up my mind yet, but this video helped quite a bit already. Thank you, merry Xmas and a happy new year !

[@WatchMysh]

Hey, thanks! :) There was a 2022 and 2021 version of this video. Guess you didn't know the channel back then, it's a small one so I'm not surprised. "Back then most reviews praised the X-56 Hotas for being a good setup for this price range." I also don't know what they were thinking. But many of the reviews back then were from people that did "general" hardware testing. So they didn't know where to look and what to look for. On paper the X-56 is a good HOTAS system so I don't blame (most of) them. Happy new year to you, too :)

[@abracadabra1fois]

I also have the X56, for squeaking, there is a solution and it's magic, just put a little dishwashing liquid under the spring where the ring slides and it's incredible the stick has regained all its smoothly, no more problems since.

[@camelion.4791]

You can also try to buy the Thrustmaster Warthog Stick on used goods Websites. There they are often very cheap. In Germany on Ebay-Kleinanzeigen around 140€ = 150$.

[@kgrach]

Ive had the Saitek X-52 going on two decades now. Still works, Glad Logitech brought them as now I get newer drivers for it. No idea if the new ones are built as well.

[@2wheels1motor]

The rubber of my old X-52 started to get sticky by itself. So I needed to throw it away. Dont you have that issue?

[@kgrach]

@@2wheels1motor You could of just cleaned it, That's what I did. That type of plastic tends to collect hydrocarbons out of the air and get tacky. I believe I justs used some windex.

[@alvarogeorgemenendez1601]

@@2wheels1motor use some medical (disinfectant) wipes, i had the same issue from a second hand X-52 i purchased for $50 and it comes out like new after a few hard wipes.

[@mrmr-vr7vh]

excellent roundup. only thing missing was the VKB Gunfighter Series. imho on par with virpil

[@WatchMysh]

It is. But I mentioned it briefly. Had to keep the video at a length people watch.

[@m-zurowski]

I really dig your sense of humor :D

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks! I'm a bit afraid of it sometimes. ^^

[@nonamenolife01]

This is the First Video I have Seen of you and let me ask Sind WIR deutsch oder bin nur Ich deutsch

[@WatchMysh]

Gute Frage ;)

[@Tiber234]

Thanks Mysh - Im bracing myself for an upgrade after many years of loyal usage with the X52 Pro for DCS and MSFS - im ready and was seriously looking into the TMWH, however after careful consideration of your analysis my gaze is now on WW's Orion2. Thanks for the vid

[@WatchMysh]

You're welcome :)

[@oddball_the_blue]

The T.16000M also has a set of pedals that can be purchased for them too - I'd hazard a guess that they'd be somewhat cheaper than some of the more premium options for those on a budget.

[@WatchMysh]

Yes. But they are not recommendable imho. Not just because of their flimsy construction, even the pedals themselves are too close together.

[@aloharay]

Highly reccommend the Gladiator Premium versions. I use an angeled version as a very capable lefthand throttle stick. Love it. Mentioned and shown here at 13:45

[@somborcalling]

Do you know how to set the axis on the Gladiator Premium? Which programme to use to have axes be less linear and more exponential?

[@superslash7254]

The VKB gladiator can actually also be used as a throttle in and of itself with one adapter, it's fantastic for mech and space games.

What are good mech games? I really miss playing Mechwarrior as a kid.

[@Crushonius]

I might very well be the exception but once you fly with a force feedback stick everything feels like utter crap they need to make a comeback asap still miss my sidewinder with all its flaws the feeling was awesome i am looking into diy and brunner at the moment still not sure what to get

[@WatchMysh]

Yes, we really need FF back

[@emmainapinch]

Don't sleep on the VKB WWII throttle, it's actually quite good. I bought it without the vertical module they bundle it with normally and it's pretty nice at that price point. I run it left handed, not possible to do comfortably without mods on other throttles.

[@BlueFireVortex8]

I was thinking of either getting the VKB GNX THQ with the wwII throttle or the Gladiator NXT EVO Omni Throttle to use as my throttle? Do you see any pros or cons to choosing one over the other.

[@dinamitemaster]

I have a Warthog stick + throttle with Saitek rudder pedals and a VPC WarBRD base instead of the default. This eliminates the main weakpoint of the Warthog and really makes for a great setup I think, and it's been reliable for years now.

[@WatchMysh]

The only way a Warthog grip makes sense. Nowadays you can just get an F16 grip + Orion2 base from Winwing and you have more or less the same setup with high quality metal and better button mechanics.

[@dinamitemaster]

@@WatchMysh I don't have experience with these alternatives but I believe that. I got the whole setup (minus the Virpil base) mounted on a wheel stand pro for quite a good deal used, but quickly came to realize how poor the joystick gimbal was for the price. Had it apart twice trying to regrease it and make it smoother, then gave in and swapped the base. There really is a world of difference between the plastic ball design and a proper cam and spring one, the original design had no place in such an expensive stick. The Virpil base turns it into how it should have been from the factory.

[@WatchMysh]

@@dinamitemaster You found the perfect solution. The TM gimbal is just awful.

[@paulkirkland3263]

Great video, very informative, and with a dash of humour here and there.

[@bigboi1124]

Thank you! You compared these perfectly!

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks! Happy to help :)

[@jonkam-jw1bn]

Dat Manowar reference caught me off guard lmfao. Air Warriors of the World :D

[@WatchMysh]

Lol. 🥇 You're the first one to mention it.

[@bjrnchrstn]

Got the TM f18 flightstick and the Winwing Orion2 and love that combo tbh. If i didn't have the stick already I would have gone all winwing I guess, but there was (and is) no need. The Orion 2 really is a great piece of gear I got to say. Also more realistic for f18 immersion then the virpil stuff.

[@se7hix]

I can agree with some points and others don't... One of the best HOTAS entry points is without question the X-56 as a starter, doesn't break the bank and even if you pay in 6 times, has lots of buttons to map(that you only get in the high end part) and can do a bit of everything and even has dual throttle movement as with the T1600 not so much, less buttons and after 1y of constant abuse, most people has to get a new one, because most break just a bit after the warranty ends, convenient hein(if you don't believe me, go check the reviews of this last 2/4y) and on the throttle part, I can say that it doesn't offer that much for the price, either in buttons, single throttle use, precision... And this last 2 examples for a lot of countries should be the category of mid range and the proper entry points and the "best ones", since prices are escalating, due to greedy companies and justifying the high prices with "war", "lack of materials/people to work" and "covid" instead of "we want to keep our gains high and telling you guys, that we lost a lot"(like most banks and others do to justify their dubious actions). I can't recommend much of VKB products(1 or 2 exceptions doesn't do the cut) since their prices are stupidly high, for what it is and if you can save a bit more, you can buy directly either Virpil or Winwing. I don't own any of the high end(would love, but unfortunately can't afford and I already made my mind of what I'll be buying in the future) and my opinion is from my experience of trying for myself, either what I have or my friends have is what I got and am trying to pass along here, I usually weigh all the pros and cons, also one thing that matters (for me) the most is the FINAL price, because most times you end up having issues with customs and with the deliveries, that for products above 200€/$ should already have free shipping, but again, it's just my opinion, it is what it is, and that's was only in an old ideal world, that in this last 4y changed so much. Warthog isn't even an option at it's price point(what get it to be so expensive is the USAF license and "approval"), but the TPR pedals should be, since you spoke on the VKB pedals you should've also mentioned the other pedals (only fair right?!). This video for me, was mostly a masked VKB promo, than other other recommendations. But not a bad work! Still is a great video! Thank you for your time, work and dedication.

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks :) Well... You get two Gladiators for the price of one virpil base+grip. You can always argue like that and get the more high end version of anything. Like I said in the video: I just mentioned the VKB pedals because they are "cheap" and good. I'll do a dedicated video on pedals. I try to be fair but I need to cut down the time of the video to keep it a digestable length. Thanks again for taking the time to write your wall of text. Appreciate other takes on the topic if they are formulated in a respectful manner. Fly safe :)

[@ShadowVipers]

I wish I saw this video before I bought my X56 stick... at least I bought the 3 year insurance with it. Definitely going to take a solid look at Virpil whenever I get around to replacing the X56.

[@WatchMysh]

The insurance surely was a good investment!

[@0w784g]

I actually replaced a warthog with an x52. Just so much more convenient with smaller footprint and responsive stick. The mouse can be programmed to keypresses fortunately.

[@ADPeguero]

@1:40. Okay now, that was funny LOL 🙂

[@WatchMysh]

:D

[@SpottedShephard]

yeah just had my x56 rhino's throttle snap and the left one is due to the same soon. The screws mounting them have slowly looseened and that allowed for stressing until fracture. Bought used in great condition only 1.5 years ago, throttle was sound then.

[@WatchMysh]

Time to upgrade :)

[@Sirmellowman]

Great video,seriously. Great work

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks :)

[@thejetfighter]

Good info, I'm thinking on getting a Throttle stick and this video game something to think about. Good video 😀

[@TheWhoamaters]

I just need some pedals to add to my T.6000M HOTAS and I'll be happy. I'll probably still look for a VKB HOTAS setup

[@etogreen]

I've tried Thrustmaster T16000's, CH products fightersticks, and flightsticks, and VKB gunfighter MK3 Kosmosima premiums, but so far the best sticks i've used by far, are Virpil Constellation Alphas.

[@WatchMysh]

The Alpha is a great grip.

[@Stubbies2003]

Should have included more options in the rudder department. Personally I went with the Slaw Device and it is stellar. Top notch build quality and like your saying it will live past the next nuclear war. I am still running the Warthog setup and regardless of the lack of suggestion here I still love it and it works great.

[@WatchMysh]

I will make a dedicated video on rudders. Hope your Warthog continues to function well! Mine is also still ok.

[@CarlLydickRC]

@@WatchMysh I went with the Warthog from Thrustmaster because I am trying to replicate a Stearman cockpit and wanted a full length stick. I ended up using about 50cm of extensions between the base and the F16 grip. Do any of the better options have the capability to run a full-length flight stick that would be scale to WWII era aircraft? This is critical to me as I'm trying to replicate an actual aircraft for in-home practice.

[@WatchMysh]

@@CarlLydickRC I don't know if I got this right but VKB as well as Virpil offer extensions for their grips. The Warthog fits on the Virpil bases for example.

[@Legion_Victrix]

I've had the X56 for years now and I wouldn't change it at all. This hotas and I have been taking down many many many players online so far and it's still very precise. I don't get why it's always overlooked. As for the pedals, I use a Logitech G29 Wheel & pedal kit. The gaz and Clutch pedals are quite similar and they do perfectly the job as well.... again I'm pretty sure that it won't satisfy most people because Logitech but that works very well in the end and it also serves more that 1 purpose.

[@WatchMysh]

Because your experience is rather the exception than the norm. The system itself is good, that's out of the question. So as long as it works everything is fine. Fingers crossed yours continues to function as well as it does atm. :)

[@Legion_Victrix]

@@WatchMysh Yeah I also hope it last for long. I built myself a whole cockpit around those components as well. The cockpit allows me to mix everything together all at once in different layouts. I've been into Flight Sims and Race sims since 1999. So far it's the best setup I ever tried. At least it suits my needs perfectly as I mentionned. Cheers and fly safe !!

[@ericschori5519]

Good roundup, but for pedals make sure you consider whether you will want toe-brake function. The VKB pedals are fine if you don't want it, but Virpil or MFG Crosswind are good choices if you do want toe-breaks.

[@WatchMysh]

Yes, absolutely. I just mentioned them because they are "cheap" and do most jobs well enough. Ofc some Virpils or Crosswinds are highly recommended if you want dedicated toe breaks.

[@dagoelius]

I've had my Saitek X-52 for almost 10 years,its a flawless stick combo. It is still the best entry setup out there. A cheap easy trick to make the joystick spring stiffer is to link 4 cable ties together into each other to form a loop, and fit it under the spring where it meets the plastic plate. It will completely eliminate any droop or sag that happens as the joystick ages over time.

[@WatchMysh]

The cable tie and/or rubber band mod works quite nice for the X52, yes. But calling the combo "flawless" is a bit overstretched. Even the Virpil or VKB stuff has its flaws.

[@MistorGator13]

Good good video. Answered all my questions

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks! There is an updated 2023 version on my channel also.

[@koma-k]

Very nice overview! I bought a 2nd hand X52Pro shortly after I started out in Elite Dangerous (was running an old Saitek Cyborg 3D + Voice Attack before that). The X52Pro has held up nicely, even after reaching five figures of hours in E:D. I'd almost hoped for a malfunction by now, to give me an excuse to do more than drool over pictures of the Virpil stuff... As for the comment about controlling a HE111, USS Missouri and the Enterprise all at once, in my head that sentence continued thus: "... or just enough for Elite Dangerous" 😂

[@WatchMysh]

Got a sturdy X52 there. You could keep it as a backup unit for the Virpil stuff? (see what I did there?)

[@pogo1140]

By the way, CH still makes it's FIghterstick USB for about 114 USD. Rugged, reliable, I put silicon grease on the parts that moved against each other and I've been using it for 10 years now.

[@_vortech_]

I'm working on modernizing a Suncom F-15 stick and throttle, a F-4/A-4 stick, and old school Thrustmaster rudder pedals.

[@WatchMysh]

Nice :) will you document the process?

[@_vortech_]

@@WatchMysh I'll see what I can do. I know there's already a 3rd party PCB availabile to make the stick, throttle, and rudders connect to a USB, but I kind of want to do a bit more to them than just that. The stick's countermeasure button is just a single action push button. It's real life counterpart is actually a two way selective switch with a push button - which is what I'm going to try and implement. Plus I want to stiffen it up a bit so it doesn't feel so flimsy and weak, replace the plastic ring coverings around the HAT switches with metal with laser engraving what each selection is, replace the coverings for the HAT switches themselves, install HALL effect sensors, and see if I can put the stick on top of a force feedback base. I also want to utilize a disconnect feature with the base of the stick so I can swap out other sticks with it. However, if the cost of the work goes beyond what a Virpil, VKB, or WinWing goes for, then I'll just abandon the project and get those instead. When I bought the devices, I totally forgot about how they weren't USB devices and thought I was finding an extremely cheaper option to go semi-authentic (each device was under $45.00). However, I do like upgrading hardware to current standards, so I figured I just bought myself some more "fun", lol.

[@WatchMysh]

@@_vortech_ awesome project! Good luck and thanks for sharing!

[@gallagherthewolf5845]

I've used the x56 for a year now and, -I see how there can be ergonomic problems with smaller hands -I have no issue with the sticky throttle because when you want to stay at full throttle it will just stay and then when fluctuating, say in a dog fight, it becomes really easy -I have had one button on the throttle almost give up on me 2 months in (H button on the front, due to pressing it repeatedly for countermeasures lol) but I was able to easily fix that within 10 minutes with a ziptie lol -the problem with ghost buttons (not mentioned in the video) is often a problem with the wrong usb, the throttle is just bordered into usb 3.0 and if its below 3.0 you will face ghosting -the amount of buttons is amazing and I haven't needed to use my keyboard for anything even remotely important in forever. I would highly recommend you make 2 buttons bind to control and shift to quadruple the buttons but just hearing others storys definitely makes it a hit or miss on build quality but I've been happy with mine (watch it give up on me tomorrow lol) go with this videos info because google has proven the x56 is not a reliable purchase for its cost. just saying its not totalllll garbage

[@thunderboltlightning6010]

I also have the X56。I think the throttle is ok as long as you use the right USB port. But the stick just isn't there. Ergonomic problems aside, the gimbal feels scratchy and the twist axis is easy to fail. I recently replaced my X56 stick with vkb gladiator nxt evo. It fells way better, even better than the warhog stick if you don't care much about the feel of all metal grip.

[@gallagherthewolf5845]

​@@thunderboltlightning6010 yeah someday Ill upgrade it but mine has yet to fail at all! (other then the H button but I just needed to turn something with a ziptie but it works like new) and yeah I have bigger hands so none of the buttons really bother me. only the stick on the joystick I need to readjust for but I never use it anyway.

[@arugulatarsus]

I have a t16000m, your review is spot on, the only other issue, all the switches are membrane switches except for the trigger.

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks! I'll add that to the sticky!

[@arugulatarsus]

@@WatchMysh I should be clear, I mean the flight stick, not throttle, the throttle is very nice.

[@Tattlebot]

@@arugulatarsus The throttle is abysmal.

[@arugulatarsus]

@@Tattlebot I like the ergonomics, and the lineararity, it also has good buttons. I imagine you don't like motion, that can be fixed. See majorhardware's guide. It's quite nice. Is it something else?

[@Tattlebot]

@@arugulatarsus It has really poor buttons. In particular, the slew button is going to be a show stopper for anyone who has picked up DCS A-10C or similar sensor heavy aircraft. Do you know how many people are going to buy this and figure out that they can't control the EOTS properly, thinking that it's their fault? I missed on the box where it said that this item needs fixing and modding before it is usable.

[@Atlessa]

I almost fell of my chair when you gave the price of that Logitech X-treme I paid about as much for my stick (b-stock, to be fair) which has hall sensors, two stage trigger, 4 way trim switch, a three-way switch which toggles which button-numbers are reported to the OS for the remaining: another 4-way switch, two thumb buttons and a pinky button. And there's a little throttle lever on the base, which stands on a heavy metal plate. It's also NOT a cup n ball design. Here in Germany it's sold under the name Titanwolf Cobra, but I've seen the same model sold as the Cobra V5 with different brand names internationally. MSRP about 65€. I paid 25 for b-stock (box was mangled and there's some scratches on the base)

[@SarntRexxo]

In case anyone see this, the x-55/56 rhino has a problem with its split throttle where if you stiffen it with the resistance wheel (even a bit too much) it will break the tracking of throttle input in game and even if both are aligned, will be at different percentages

[@WatchMysh]

Thanks. That's a new problem I wasn't aware of.

[@SarntRexxo]

@@WatchMysh came across your vid while searching a solution. APPARENTLY the two way pinky hat on the throttle can be pressed down to re align the input throttles while connected so when split they won’t be off sync. But I’m not home to try it myself.

[@chrono2959]

I'm running the x52 non-pro version but I did start out with the Logitech El Cheapo still have it for a backup

[@Zetler]

This list god tier.

[@timp2751]

The Logitech sticks aren't actually 'ball and socket' as such. The gimbal itself is more of a classic 2 axis setup, the similarity, and i think this is more of an issue for the usability, is they all use a single spring for the return to centre force. There several issues with this: 1) the design inherently tends to result in significant centre slop, to counter, a heavier spring with significant central preload is usually used. This results in a significant centre bump making fine aim adjustments around the centre area trickier. 2) The geometry of the spring return means a digressive force curve (i.e. the increase in return force from 10° to 15° is less than the force increase from 5° to 10°) 3) the return force contours are circular which makes it much trickier to adjust one axis without unintentionally changing the other.

[@chrono2959]

The only flight stick and throttle that I want more than the warthog is the one that they mocked up for Star Citizen like 10 years ago and the keyboard that goes with it is amazing looking

[@WatchMysh]

And I thought I was the only one to remember it. The mockup was awesome! But why would you like a Warthog if there's an F-16EX?

[@chrono2959]

@@WatchMysh just like the reviews and the way it looks

[@Stouzough]

Nicely done, keep up the good work

[@XXlemos]

I use VKB GUNFIGHTER MK.III ,MCG Pro grip with twist adapter and Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle with Control Lever Change Module Adapter

[@WatchMysh]

The Gunfighter MkIII / Pro is excellent! :)

[@AzzySunfire]

Good advice, but what about stability on the table? Some of these bases look really narrow.

[@WatchMysh]

Hi :) Some are made to be fixed in place, some work well on tables. In the upper price range (Gunfighter, Virpil, Winwing,.. ) you have the choice with different bases.

[@brainpatter9723]

I love your work, greetings from Germany

[@jebb125]

own virpil t-50 cm3 and the winiwng orion 2 throttle, with the super libra stick. in the F18. I use the orion more and think the winwing products are equal or have slight advantages over the vipil. Both are great but i use the winiwng more

[@GottHoldNicetomeet]

You missed the high high end with VPForce Rhino and Brunner CLX-E :P