2024 Mazda CX-5 Transmission Replacement Update Fail | No New TCM's Available

[@INOOOYASHA]

good luck with the new transmission, hope the replacement repair does not cause more damage to the car.

[@tntmyth]

I have a 2024 CX-5 Turbo and no problems so far. A long time ago, I had Mazda Millenia S out of warranty that had a similar problem to the one you are describing with the TCM. It really was barely drivable. I took it to a Mazda dealership and they told me that the part alone was over $3,000. I was fairly poor in my 20`s and I had to tell them that I couldn't afford the new TCM and to just give me the car back. When they brought the car around, the service rep told me that the technician that had diagnosed the issue has attempted a repair by soddering something on the TCM and it was working. No guarantees but also no charge. I never had a problem again. I kept the car a few more months, and then sold it because I realized that I couldn't afford repairs like that. I bought a new Isuzu Trooper. That car had transmission problems too but it was many years later.

[@jasonharris996]

Didn't Millenias have a Ford transmission? The Ford units in the 626 were also trash.

[@tntmyth]

@@jasonharris996 I don't know if the Millenia had a Ford transmission. We also had a 626. It never failed but it shifted hard when cold. Once it warmed up it was OK. My 2024 CX-5 shifts very smoothly.

[@GameWithViiP3R]

Many of the car manufacturers are still struggling for chips before covid. You'd wait to make 3 months for a car. Now, you will be waiting 6 -12 months. But I have a friend who got into an accident, and his car was classed as "total loss" because of the wait times for parts

[@AG-uh9bf]

I'd have lemon'd it day 31. Not hard to find another CX-5. My Mazda 3's automatic was the same one and it was probably the most rock solid part of that car, sucks they're sticking all the new TCMs into brand new vehicles only.

[@VacLab]

Then you would have never seen this journey. That's the point. Stay tuned until the end. 😁

[@ShowMeWhatINeedToKnow]

Likewise. No way that car will ever been the same after being torn apart twice.

[@VacLab]

@@ShowMeWhatINeedToKnow we'll find out soon, won't we?

[@ShowMeWhatINeedToKnow]

@@VacLab - Not really. If they over tightened bolts, broke connectors, or routed harnesses wrong, problems may not show up for many years down the road.

[@VacLab]

That's not my problem at all because I only lease since 2013.​ 😊

[@علاءهواغوا]

thanks for sharing. I got 2024 "BLUE" cx5 too. keep following this issue also improve my English listening skill.

[@peterk73]

My wife's 2023 CX-5 non-turbo transmission went out after 4,500 miles took 75 days to get a new one from Japan. Just got back from 2000-mile (TX to MN) & back round trip in it with no problems, for what it's worth.

[@VacLab]

Good to know. 👍

[@ontarioman6301]

Wife 240,000 km , no issues with transmission. One sensor change

[@rontopping7811]

Rare problem sir. 6 speed has been around for ever. Best transmission of all time.

[@VacLab]

I'm hoping they can just get parts that work so my wife can get her vehicle back.

[@jethrox827]

I've just started looking into buying a cx5 so I thought I'd do some searching, found at least a dozen issues the same on various forums without even trying, even chatGPT tells you about it lol

[@kennethward4985]

It's only the blue ones.

[@michaelvincent554]

Im having the same problem… cars been at the dealer 2 weeks… No word

[@midnitemonty]

my 2015 Mazda Cx5 has 150k and in the first drive of the day ( cold ), it loves to hurry u and get into 3rd gear.. jumpy.. its good for the rest of the day after its first drive.. smooth. I won't buy a cx5 after 2019 as I don't want a skyactiv-G with the cylinder deactivate. They were finding cracks in the engine block.

[@zepherk916]

I have a Mazda 3, 225,345 miles. I was planning to drive it to 500,000 miles but then TCM issues happen. I got a new refurbished one, change the location, it ran good for few months and then again tranny is acting up. In the morning, until it heats up for 15-20 min, it would not go in first gear whereas the reverse gear works. Once it starts running it still runs like a champ. Seeing this happening to your 2024 CX-5 is mindboggling. You have patience of a saint. I dont and I would not be this cool as you are in this video. I am never going to buy a Mazda again in my life time. I am done with them.

[@johnnyk6906]

LOL, Toyota/Lexus are only giving one key fob with a promise to send the second "shortly" but his can be a year or more.

[@nicholasbatoosingh9917]

Good day I may have a new TCM I purchased a new transmission valve body a few months ago. Got a TCM but used my original TCM. Unfortunately the oiginal valve body was good. Turns out the piston seals were worn due to the start/stop feature being engaged more than a hundred times a day causing excessive wear. If you like send me the part# will compare to my TCM. My vehicle is a 2016 but may have similar parts. Love my Mazda extremely low maintenance and fun to drive. Didn't know start/stop could cause so much problems. No more of that for me.

[@carloscohn4183]

I need that tcm sir

[@honestscentz9300]

TCM are about 200.00 new it’s not expensive but, if you had a 2012 Mazda 3 you can just buy a TCM and it takes on 30mins to install but if they gave you a new transmission that’s good

[@Tigerroux]

Mazda service is somewhat questionable at some dealerships. This year I had an emissions code come up on my Mazda3 that had a fumes leak out of the fuel pump. The fuel pump was working fine. They wanted to charge me $3,700 to replace the whole fuel pump, purge valve, vent value, gas cap and who knows what else. When asked what would it cost to replace just the fuel pump, I got no answer but an excuse that that’s the way they do things to get the engine light off. Knowing they were milking me, I went somewhere else and it only needed a new cap and o-ring on the fuel pump for $850. I’m guessing a car under warranty would have to be serviced only at the dealership, but be careful. The Mazda dealership in my town went under new management and has never been the same. Will never go back or buy a car from them.

[@mrgarrison3516]

Even if u have to drive far away to find a good dealership to avoid the local bad one's...... it's worth the savings & piece of mind

[@dziggy3004]

I have the E-X-A-C-T same transmission issue with my 2024 CX-5! Was failing right off, multiple TRANSMISSION SLIPS during virgin ride of the day (for first 5-minutes or so). Reproducible 100% after sitting overnight, after mild overnight temp drops, eg. 60-degree F. Thought it would LEARN the correct COLD-shifting for 2nd-3rd, but never did. Have taken to dealer multiple times, including to a second dealer, to no avail. Escalations to "REGIONAL" have gone nowhere. They claim that since there's NO DIAG CODE thrown, then it's behaving NORMAL! (right!) They say they've tried a TCM "learning reset", to no avail. However, I'm pretty sure there's a second set of TCM shift parameters for "COLD WARMUP-mode" (similar to a fallback BOOTSTRAP PROM on a computer), that are SEPARATE FROM the otherwise normal adaptive/learned params -- and that they're either outright corrupt, or simply not calibrated properly with the current valve-body instance. Have even appealed directly to Mazda engineers/development managers in Japan. :( Will be posting my own video(s) soon!

[@VacLab]

After 4 months and 2 new transmissions, my wife's CX-5 is healed...for now. Only 2500 miles so far.

[@dziggy3004]

@@VacLab Are you able to share a copy of the service report? It might be helpful during my upcoming re-service appt.

[@VacLab]

@dziggy3004 the diagnosis was already covered in a previous video. Check the CX-5 playlist.

[@ogopogo1397]

How did tis start? I bought a 24 signature in Jan. Its jerky when first starting. like, lurching. 5000km on car. Doesnt always happen but I leave the same parkade every time at same speed and some days it quite lurchy. Subsequent starts after that its just fine.

[@VacLab]

I was first able to detect this behavior at about 400 miles.

[@chuckashton9688]

Glad you have a good dealer. You may need to look at using the Lemon Law to get Mazda to buy back your wife's faulty car. Sucks and I hope the next fix works.

[@VacLab]

I'm well aware of my legal options but this is the story I choose to tell at the moment. If I chose another path, you wouldn't be watching this video.

[@JohnC-b5j]

@@VacLab My dealer said they would not touch nor remove the transmission until they got a "new" TCM to test it as the ATM is probably just fine.

[@VacLab]

If you have watched the entire series, the original TCM couldn't be reset or modified in any way. Then, the dealership attempted to order just a new TCM. They are not available by themselves, only with a new transmission attached to it. Comes only as a set.

[@JohnC-b5j]

@@VacLab So basically what you are saying is that this is even worse than expected because for any non software transmission issue a complete set is required. Now the TCM is married uniquely to the ATM or the chips shortage issue. I watched a almost all your CX5 videos as it is good content. You mentioned refurbished so an option would be a good second hand TCM but I doubt this works. Anyways thanks for the heads up.

[@VacLab]

Refurbished TCM's dont work as I said in this video. Mazda sent one because they dont have new TCM's. Fail #1. Now, a whole new set has been ordered again to see if a new TCM is included rather than a faulty refurbed one.

[@S_Paoli]

interesting.... it's the same way with a brand-new BMW X1 with 750 miles. The service advisor said the ENTIRE DCT transmission had to be replaced because the transmission computer module is part of the transmission. Are manufacturers happy with paying for entire transmissions when the only thing "bad" is the little computer? (since they are paying for the repairs under warranty) My guess is that they hope to make $$$$$ after warranties expires and owners have to pay for the replacements. :)

[@VacLab]

Good to know!

[@alexmanson1762]

I have a 2024 CX-5 S Premiun with 764 miles. So far, there are no issues. My wife has 2018 CX-5 with 52,000 miles on it with no issues. Hope all works out for you.

[@VacLab]

Thanks!

[@t.k.morris]

What was the build date on your 2024 Mazda? Before or after Dec 2023?

[@VacLab]

@@t.k.morris both were 11/23.

[@alexmanson1762]

@@t.k.morris Build date 2/24

[@t.k.morris]

@@alexmanson1762 Did yours have cylinder deactivation or stop/start?

[@dane5896]

I have a Honda Ridgeline that has a recall. It's been seven months and they still don't have the parts (Fuel Pump) to fix it. I called Honda corporate customer service and they don't know when my vehicle will be repaired.

[@VacLab]

Thanks for the info! I take it that your Honda is well over a year old?

[@dogsarefun2]

sucks...

[@tonymontana3742]

Assuming you get it fixed, won't the carfax reflect a new transmission? I think the cars value will drop. Make them buy it back.

[@VacLab]

It's a lease. They already have to buy it back. Also, not everything goes on carfax, especially if it's not accident related.

[@alland2888]

My mazda 2012 cx5 2.2 diesel auto does a similar thing between 3rd and 4th when cold. Once warm, no problems. I was told it is a sticky valve in the valve body, no big problem. I just take it easy when it's cold.

[@dziggy3004]

It's the factory calibration/non-calibration of the "COLD-WARMUP parameters" -- that can't be updated in the field. I think they saved MFG time by just using one set of wired calibration values for the "COLD WARMUP"-cycle

[@michaelvincent554]

Great… We are going through the same thing. Waiting on the transmission now. smh

[@VacLab]

About 4 months from beginning to end.

[@TexasHarleyBoy65]

Is this a common issue with the MAZDA 6 spd auto? We're looking for a 22 or 23 CX-9, but I don't want to go that route, if the trans is going to be problematic. I was under the impression that the 2.5t/6 spd/AWD combo was pretty much bullet proof.

[@dystopia-usa]

I've had my 2022 CX-30 Carbon Edition (non-turbo) AWD 6-AT for almost 2.5 years now. No issues or problems with the vehicle whatsoever.

[@jdryyz]

I've had my eye on the CX-5 for a while now. One of the main things that attracted me to it is the standard (non-CVT) tranny. Now to hear about the gear skip issue gives me pause. I believe the drive train is similar in the CX-30 but maybe not? That was my fall back given how much the CX-5's cost has inflated.

[@dystopia-usa]

@@jdryyz Mazda uses the same core SkyActiv 6-AT (& 2.5L engines) between most of their different model line-ups in US/CAN, but the software programming for them varies somewhat between models.

[@dad242]

I have a 2020. Zero probs.

[@ontarioman6301]

2019 cx turbo 81, 000 km no issues

[@johnmitchell8925]

If the Transmission control module is external from the transmission they should have been able to reflash it . The problem with most dealerships these days just like the medical field is most of the good Techs have left the business because of the shitty pay and work environments and as the cars get more and more technically advanced good luck getting the fixed

[@vlreviews]

Re-flashing and resetting was tried with no luck. Even over the air updates failed. Don't assume anything. kzbin.info/www/bejne/emK2apetf6eNrqsfeature=shared

[@ericgalvan3589]

Have you previously owned a Mazda with cylinder deactivation? Cylinder deactivation engines put more stress on the torque converter. The 2024 Mazda CX-5's use Ultra Low Viscosity transmission fluid (colored red), previous model years use Low Viscosity transmission fluid (colored blue)...maybe the factory installed wrong fluid.

[@VacLab]

My wife's 2021 CX-5 had CDA and it ran fine.

[@dogsarefun2]

I bought a CPO 23 turbo signature because It doesn't have cly. deactivation. Mazda was smart and eliminated it on 25's

[@johngauthier725]

Same skip 2nd to 3rd when cold. Dealer acknowledged the issue, tried to reprogram twice, no luck. It went away as it's summer now and the issue went away. I opted to wait till it's cold again to look at again. Hope I don't need a whole new tranny and hope the supply issue is fixed soon regardless.its under warranty as it's a 2023 so I have time. They are still making the cx5 and thought the tranny was the same in the cx30 and cx50. Weird they couldn't use one from production in US or Mexico.

[@vlreviews]

Best of luck!

[@DennistheMenace2011]

@@vlreviews What model year(s) have this problem?

[@vlreviews]

Uhhh, how would anyone know that? It could be a developing issue and Mazda certainly wouldn't confirm anything one way or another. I dont have access to Mazda's database.

[@ycplum7062]

Even if the car is "produced" in North America, the module may be produced elsewhere.

[@dziggy3004]

Same issue with my 2024 CX-5 (see my details elsewhere in this thread)!

[@jethrox827]

Suddenly interested due to almost buying a new cx5, now not as keen

[@Btu555]

2 months ago, my 2018 cx5 had a hairline crack at 53k miles just out of power train I had to pay out of pocket for a new cylinder head but my mechanic shows me all the marks that it's only a refurbished cylinder head. I was told by the parts dept that it's brand new when I ordered it. Lost confidence so I sold the car last month.

[@davidgoodwin5808]

Mazda tech here. Mazda never sends a brand new transmission for warranty or even out of warranty replacements. You’ll always get a refurbished one. Always. Just saying. Hope you get your car fixed soon.

[@vlreviews]

So that either means my dealer flat out lied or exceptions are being made. If I ever knew I was getting "used" parts on a 1 year old vehicle, that would be the end for me, period!

[@Zack-fu8sn]

I bet the new transmission came with a new transmission control module, however that module came defective like the original and they tried to use an older one from a working gen.

[@VacLab]

I bet that it was a refurb unit as they claimed. People are so unbelieveably negative with these videos.

[@williamsullivan2710]

1 800 Lemon Law

[@ohcanadaeh]

If the rebuilt TCM module would not communicate with your wife's car CPU, even if you change the whole transmission out it will not work because of the TCM. The chip shortage is very serious. I took delivery of a new 2024 Toyota Venza (my other vehicle I currently own is a 2018 CX5), I only get one key fob and Toyota could not tell me when I will get the 2nd one. This is happening to all new Toyota delivered starting in 2023. Now any car parts that has chips in will have an availability problem because of chips shortage, period.

[@greeneyesms]

Summary: Mazda is having trouble obtaining an electronic module from the manufacturer of those modules.

[@The_Fantasy_Arter]

Most states have lemon m laws that aloe a month to fix it or refund your money and get another car

[@Tigerroux]

I’d let them fix it and trade it in for a new car. His car is definitely defected. Not typical Mazda quality.

[@unikornkontroller]

As somebody who has grown up as tech has evolved (in my 40s) I yearn for the simpler days when there wasn't so much software involved. Software is junk. It's released, re-released...re-re-released as bugs arise. This mentality of "we'll fix it it down the road" has made its way into everything now. "We'll just replace the transmission when we have to." Instead of testing this stuff before release there's a rush to bring everything to market as fast as possible. What you're experiencing is the end result of that.

[@VacLab]

Yup. Just ask Tesla owners how many software updates they get every year. 😁

[@ShowMeWhatINeedToKnow]

Lower quality software started with the advent of the internet. Once software companies realized they could technically meet release dates by shipping garbage, and updating it later, that's what they did. Everybody gets their bonus and looks like a hero that way as well. Before that, when releases and updates were distributed on CDs, software releases tended to be more stable.

[@Srt8Jeep]

Surprised the Trans isn’t coming from Mexico

[@chih6654]

I’d demand the dealer to buy it back as a lemon since they’re unable to fix it!

[@VacLab]

If/when a buyback occurs, it'll be from Mazda corporate, not the local dealer.

[@f4fake22]

Crummy luck, my Mazda is solid.

[@ShowMeWhatINeedToKnow]

No way would I accept having a new car and it needing a new trans after only 400 miles. There's no way it's going back together as good as it was when it was initially built. Mechanics always over tighten bolts, break connectors, reroute harnesses wrong, etc - things snap and break years later. Try to see if you can get them to buy it back - go to arbitration or whatever it takes.

[@VacLab]

I want to show everyone my journey. If I merely turned it back in, no one would know about the parts shortage. And....that's why I lease! Happy to get it, even happier to get rid of it every two years. Whoohoo!

[@Motorsportsgeek]

How can I get rid of my manual transmission yaris when every new car is plagued with issues and who knows if it will just be a dead brick in 10 years time because you can't get parts for it.

[@VacLab]

Drive it until the wheels fall off. 😊

[@xxxpensive1415]

My 2019 CX3 transmission failed at 55k , Mazda replaced it under warranty and explained that the transmission was a dud.

[@johnmitchell8925]

So did you check for an engine or transmission code Most modern will set a code if there is anything out of sorts with any of the electronics' or perimeters even if it doesn't show a check engine light on the dash , Maybe your problem has nothing to do with the transmission itself and its being diagnosed wrong

[@vlreviews]

Umm, no, just no. kzbin.info/www/bejne/emK2apetf6eNrqsfeature=shared

[@ericschmitz357]

Funny how some people always seem to have problems with their cars while others never do.

[@VacLab]

I've never had issues with Mazdas until the 2024 model year. I've had 7 Mazdas so far.

[@fisherbrown903]

Nice update

[@VacLab]

Thanks!

[@bernie6355]

Wow good info. I was looking into the cx 30. Will look elsewhere.

[@your_royal_highness]

Guess i won’t buy a blue one….😊

[@rodgerpetrick6502]

With as many years carmakers have been in existence and all the engineers in the automotive business why can't they make vehicles without all of the problems. This is why vehicles cost soo much. Every time they repair a vehicle under warranty they include that Warranty work to the new car price

[@lindsayjelleff496]

Jeeps hope you get the part soon

[@Kim_jung_un517]

Cylinder deactivation on a 4 cylinder?

[@VacLab]

Very common these days. Especially on large 4 cylinders.

[@Kim_jung_un517]

@@VacLabBS, no such thing as cylinder deactivation of four bangers. How many cylinders would it deactivate? 1? 2 ? 3?

[@vlreviews]

I just love exposing morons. ​watch cylinder deactivation in this 2024 CX-5 loaner. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKaYhqyGg5mcadksi=AHpyrzKdeLMTCaxJ My wife's 2021 also had cylinder deactivation. And it turns off 2 cylinders, dropping from 2.5L to 1.25L. My question to you is, how long have you been living under a rock? A simple Google will also verify CDA in various vehicles for many years now. Including 4 cylinders.

[@Kim_jung_un517]

@@vlreviewsno need for name calling, pull that thong out of your arse. I stand corrected. I’ll be back to visit your channel more often and we’ll see who lives under a rock. FYI , 4 bangers are not good candidates for cylinder deactivation as it causes lots vibrations. People complain about it on the Honda v6 engines.

[@19mati67]

Can you imagine a situation like this, out of warranty?

[@johnmitchell8925]

In that case you would just live with it

[@ontarioman6301]

Nephew has 350, 000 km on 2015. No issues. Regular maintenance. Maybe you got a bad one

[@vlreviews]

I got one with a bad TCM module so far. That's it. I've leased four CX-5's so far. Love them.

[@hepgeoff]

My wife and I were planning to buy a 2024 CX-5, but now I'm not so sure.

[@DennistheMenace2011]

Get a used one from 2020 to 2022. No chip shortage yet for those years.

[@plohish1337]

@@DennistheMenace2011 are you joking ? Chip shortage happened 2020-2023 with peak in 2022 Jan. Recovered in 2023.

[@michaell5026]

Wow

[@beyond305]

better to buy a CPO mazda, 7 year/100k mile warranty on drivetrain. also, they make mazdas in japan AND mexico...if your VIN starts with M then it was made in mexico, if it starts with J then it was built in japan

[@VacLab]

CX-5's were only built in Japan until recently, when China became involved. And an extended warranty is pointless if there are no parts available. Glad I lease.

[@kenfrank2730]

After watching your videos I have decided NOT to buy a Mazda.

[@chuckwalla2967]

There's a reason why Mazda hasn't grown as a company after many decades.

[@MrAtomBee]

man what a long winded story! Hope your car is fixed . Ugh.

[@VacLab]

The answer is in a newer video in this series.

[@tommymas1]

Why not demand a new car with lemon laws? New trans after 400 miles, I wouldn't want that car back.

[@VacLab]

You didn't read any of the older comments as I've answered this question already.

[@Furieas]

2 strikes for lemon laws. 1 more for a new car.

[@VacLab]

You're a bit behind in this series. The issue has been resolved. Took 2 new transmissions.

[@drkennedy611]

They should give you a new car!

[@vlreviews]

@@drkennedy611 that may happen soon. That or a full refund. The new parts should be in soon.

[@julioruata2213]

Ni loco compro otro Mazda.

[@itsmargemrssimpsonifyanast2016]

I am currently leasing a 2022 cx5 preferred. I am noticing jerking, car roughly shifting when reversing a revving without picking up when getting on the highway. Ill probably just get a new lease when this one ends in april. This is a headache, glad i didnt finance. Im so disappointed. My husband's cx9 runs perfectly with way more mileage.

[@allenslade2053]

Thank You , will never buy a Mazda in 2024

[@Mirror1973]

This is a horror story😮

[@tommymas1]

Man, watching your videos requires extra patience. Lots of blah, blah, blah......🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️🫣

[@vlreviews]

@tommymas1 Man, you wouldn't last through 1 single high school or college lecture. Sad really.

[@tommymas1]

@vlreviews Stupid assumption, dude. I have 2 degrees and speak 3 languages. Most classes I took were usually well delivered and kept my interest. Your droning babble is horrible and repetitive. You even alluded to it yourself at the end of the video....sounds like to like to listen to your own voice. KISS principle, dude. Stay on topic and keep it short. You wonder why you have only 612 subscribers? Pathetic really. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️🫣🙄

[@powertools2375]

According to the fan boys, you are lying. Sorry you had bad luck, after all they are machines. Good luck.

[@vlreviews]

Some people can't handle the truth. They simply refuse. 😂 kzbin.info/www/bejne/emK2apetf6eNrqsfeature=shared

[@thedon7530]

Yep, the story really drags out. Bye

[@SR-0211]

You would not be acceptable in the military or law-enforcement. You talk too long. Brevity my friend, brevity is your friend. I finally had to stop watching this.

[@VacLab]

Uh, no. I'm a former high school and college teacher in the Math and Sciences. Don't care about barking out 10 seconds of jibberish.

[@dad242]

He's being detailed. Do you have ADHD?

[@oceanlover3530]

🙄🙄🙄

[@CloudiVist]

Hey soldier, sailor, marine, or airman! Drop and give us all 60 on the way out the door for leaving such a knuckleheaded comment. If you're none of those and are law enforcement instead, double-check that address before you batter someone's door down on your next raid. Odds are good that you mis-read the address and are at the wrong house. Since it seems you have no patience for details and such.

[@vlreviews]

​@@CloudiVistgreat comment! 👍

[@youdidntbuildthat47]

So the take away here is to stay away from Mazda? Ok, got it.

[@rickytomatoes]

If you kept away from every manufacturer that had "problems" with some of their vehicles, you'd end up walking or biking everywhere.

[@youdidntbuildthat47]

@@rickytomatoes 👈😂 uhm, it’s one thing to encounter a new vehicle with a “problem,” it’s all together different when the manufacturer of said vehicle tries to remedy a failed transmission issue with a used/refurbished TCM mated to a new transmission. Try to keep up.

[@rickytomatoes]

@@youdidntbuildthat47 not the first time it's happened.

[@know916bound]

​​@@youdidntbuildthat47actually it means its not a common issue, hence lack of TCM on it's own.

[@youdidntbuildthat47]

@@rickytomatoes 👈😂 so we’re not allowed to criticize a manufacturer when this happens? That’s your argument?