2024 Tesla Model 3: LFP vs 2170 Batteries | Don’t Make a Mistake!

[@Cleanerwatt]

Save 5% off of your JOWUA Tesla accessories Purchase: www.jowua-life.com/CLEANERWATT | Coupon Code: CLEANERWATT NOTE: When you purchase JOWUA products using the link above, I earn a commission (at no extra cost to you) which helps support this channel.

[@davidfenwick987]

One of your most practical videos for a potential buyer. Thank you.

[@Cleanerwatt]

You're welcome! I am glad you found it helpful.

[@curtisbrown3865]

I just bought the model 3 SR and have no regrets. Sure, I would enjoy the acceleration of the Performance from time to time, but the SR is fun and still pretty fast. $10k can buy a lot of tacos.

[@Lost_In_LA]

I just test drove the Highland RWD and the acceleration felt quick. I'm kind of blown away with that and how smooth it felt. You could have fooled me it was an air suspension.

[@hermanstokbrood]

@@Lost_In_LADid you drive the BYD Seal? I drove one after the Highland. The Seal is so much more enjoyable for several reasons.

[@christianolsen9781]

@@hermanstokbroodbut Chinese..

[@muskistutter]

@curtisbrown3865 💯 made a great choice. I’ve had both M3P and MYP and while they are both very fast they become boring after a while. I tested the 2.0 RWD yesterday and it made me giggle through the twisties because off it’s RWD. Plenty of smiles. Good choice.

[@hermanstokbrood]

@@muskistutter Jeez, it makes you giggle huh? You must be too young to drive. 🤣

[@KrazyKastorff]

One aspect of the LFP pack you didn't mention is cold weather performance. The RWD suffers more from the cold than the long range. It's a big deal for midwesterners that deal with Nov-April with temperatures below 32F a majority of the time.

[@Skyprince27]

I had my LFP Model 3 RWD out this week in mild freezing rain, -8°C, 94 km trip. The defroster ran full blast half the time, but couldn’t keep the windshield clean without continually shooting fluid. By the end of the trip I had used 165 km of battery range. The car is basically unusable on highway trips in the winter in Canada, even in the east

[@Dubitz]

As long as Superchargers are frequent enough (100 miles apart or less) you'll be fine for any road trip during any time of the year. Winters for me on the east coast haven't been an issue and I drive around 80 miles per day for work.

[@t.d.5804]

This applies only to the old CATL LFP. Tesla puts the BYD blade LFP ein the EU Y SR. That is much better, charges faster, heat up faster and performes better in the cold. Sadly Tesla still puts the old Catl in the M3+

[@KrazyKastorff]

@@DubitzWe just completed 4,200 miles in 8 days traveling from WI to Las Vegas, Phoenix, AZ and back to WI in early January. It was -5F for a decent amount of travel in the midwest. Certainly, it was doable but the car required quite a bit of preconditioning for every stop. I feel a non-LFP would require less preconditioning for fast charging and would certainly not limit regen as much as the LFP RWD did for us.

[@kofManKan]

My understanding is that newer LFP battery chemistries are better in cold conditions than NCM.

[@hieyeque1]

The LFP, for me is where it's at. Charging to 100% without worrying about degradation is awesome. And if you need more range, you can simply add it by driving 10 mph slower - because wind resistance increases by the square.

[@ceeIoc]

Can you explain to me why it's easier to charge to 100%? Do you mean you need to keep an eye on the charging for the LR model?

[@hieyeque1]

@@ceeIoc Hi, I'm not sure if you are aware but Tesla offers 2 different types of battery chemistries. NCM and LFP battery packs. Each type has their pros and cons. NCM packs have higher energy density, perform better in cold weather, and are able to charge and discharge faster (discharging faster means it can be used for high performance applications). LFP packs have more cycle times (meaning they can be charged and discharged more times in their life time than NCM). They don't catch fire if punctured. And to answer your question, it's not that it's easier to charge to 100%, it's that charging it to 100% doesn't degrade the battery life like it does with NCM. NCM voltage rises dramatically toward the end of the charge cycle - this voltage spike slightly damages the pack. Over time, it will reduce the range. So typically it is recommended to only charge it to 80 or 90%, and only 100% when needed. LFPs can be charged to 100% every day. Also NCM doesn't like going below 20% - but again LFP doesn't mind going to around 1% (neither pack should be run to 0).

[@ceeIoc]

@@hieyeque1 Thanks for the info! But from a practical standpoint, charging to only 80% isn’t a convenience issue right? It only impacts the mileage since you don’t charge to 100%. I’m debating between rwd and lr right now.

[@hieyeque1]

@@ceeIoc You won't have any problems with convenience, charging to 80% is a setting in the car or your Tesla app. it remembers what you set it to by location, so you don't have to mess with it once it's set. If you live in a colder climate, LR is better - and you do have the option to go further. Also the LR will be faster (at acceleration) than the RWD. If you do the math, 80% gives you about the same range on the LR as does 100% on the RWD.

[@nunayobiznass]

Not an option for me in Ontario

[@johnreese3762]

We bought a 23 Model 3 standard range with LFP batteries for the reason you mentioned. The car (new) was discounted $3,850 by Tesla, $2,000 rebate from state and $ 7,500 tax credit! We also love the car!!

[@Undergroundexpedition]

I got $123.00 for a tax rebate 😂. I don't make enough money.

[@TheRealBlueSwan]

The RWD is absolutely the sensible option and the one I’d recommend to almost anybody who is in doubt, but I tested both right after each other and the AWD just brought a smile to my face in a way that the RWD didn’t.

[@CBGENESIS]

is the performance differences noticeable?

[@TheRealBlueSwan]

@@CBGENESIS If you drive them right after each other, then yes. But I really doubt that you'd ever find the RWD lacking in performance.

[@KiRiTO72987]

Only reason I'm considering looking at an AWD is for extra snow performance since I live in a very hilly area so even with snow tires RWD cars struggle but I can work remote if needed so it's not too big of a deal

[@Creelyblades]

A word about battery degradation- Everybody loves to talk about it on these KZbin videos but what they fail to mention is, it’s rarely the cause for a failure. Most of the time batteries fail because of some internal issue with cells or contactors or some other issue the cause a rapid drop off and range. With people that take care of their battery Even the 2170s are rated for 1500 charge cycles which puts you well over 400,000 miles before degradation is even an issue. (barring other types of failures that do not fall under regular degradation.)

[@DSC800]

When you say "people that take care of their battery" you mean rarely charge above 80%, AND slow charge, correct?

[@Creelyblades]

@@DSC800 mainly keep it below 80%

[@TeslaPrince]

I live in northern Canada and even according to Kyle on out of spec podcast/channel the dual motor (which i have) heats the battery much faster than the rwd having two motors to heat the battery in cold winter temps. This can be a big deal for people like me in northern Canada, also max charge speed at superchargers are capped for sr+ both ac/dc speeds are slower

[@AlecBadalamente-t7b]

My 2023 Model 3 RWD with LFP with 30k miles and 18" hubcaps is currently in the shop and I have a loaner 2020 loaner model 3 LR and I am SHOCKED how bad the capacity is at and it ONLY has 32k miles with the premium 19" wheels. The 2020 loaner model 3 LR has a range of ONLY 283 miles at 100% state of charge according to the car. At 80% daily its a whooping 225 miles! It says on Tessie that it has 8.4% battery degradation and is on par with the fleet average. My 2023 model 3 RWD LFP has a degradation of only 4% and I get 261 miles at 100%. I dont have OEM hubcaps on, so I could possibly squeeze more out if I put them back on. I live in an apartment, so I ONLY supercharge it. The only benefit of the LR for me would be the upgraded speakers and more comfortable suspension, but I heard the highland is much more improved and i'm not sure if the LR will be more comfortable in the Highland too. My RWD is way more bumpy than a performance model 3 or the model 3 LR. But the speakers and second faster is not worth the extra $9k at all.

[@djruido1]

I experience the range of both and I know what you are talking about the fact that you can’t charge to 100 makes the rwd really compete with the long range model.

[@bearcubdaycare]

My Model 3 RWD has been fine in the Colorado winter, and has had adequate range for road trips to remote places like Chaco Canyon.

[@Thailand-Servant-111]

The surprising thing is that LFP batteries have a lifespan approximately 2 times longer than NMC batteries 😊, but the LFP warranty is less than NMC.​😮

[@pioneer7777777]

So we should expect half the degradation per year from an lfp versus nmc pack? That's interesting, and somewhat hard to believe without real world data.

[@Sweetw4ter]

@@pioneer7777777 LFP is rated for much more charging cycles.

[@LeoMiller-u2w]

2 times longer lifespan is only useful when you ride more than 500,000km with a single car.. so lifespan does not really matter when it comes to BEV. for ESS? LFP is better.

[@rickyjulian496]

Perhaps because it's not been tried and tested yet..

[@waynerussell6401]

Dahn has shown that NMC has similar cycle life to LFP when charged to same voltages. If cycled between 30 and 70%, which takes care of normal urban use, it will last past 10k cycles. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qICkip2ZhJuel9E

[@ih2898]

I totally agree, and that was our thought when we ordered the LR new Model 3. The one thing that drew us to the LR, was not the range, same as SR on day to day. Faster charging for roads trips, do not do that many huge road trips. Get to the grocery store just that much faster, no. :) Living in Canada, with the snow, our reason was the dual motor for the potential day here and there with snow storms. Is it worth the extra money no, but not much of a choice. Would have considered an SR with dual motor and lower range, but that does not exist either.

[@robinsonreichel1268]

Whereas you can have twice the fun on snow with a rear wheel drive set to slip start… 😁

[@jonwoodmd]

@@robinsonreichel1268having grown up and currently living in a very snowy state, this is true but having good snow tires on RWD Tesla is better than AWD with regular tires.

[@ih2898]

@@robinsonreichel1268 I more than agree. But the car is for the wife, and she is not as adventurous with driving on snow. :)

[@robinsonreichel1268]

@@ih2898 Ok, got you. 🙂 I had to trade in my M3P with Track Mode for an LR because of towing. And I desperately miss the fun on snow. 😁

[@nickprince322]

Great analysis. Very helpful. Thank you. (RWD LFP already bought).

[@SCWgreg]

Excellent and thorough review. This is something I suspected in the back of my head, but never really knew how the actual comparison would play out. Thank you!

[@GregB011]

The difference in 0-60 is significant. I drove an an LFP and found it significantly slower than my dual motor. Not that you need to have all that speed all the time,,, but its so nice to take off and accelerate with such little effort.

[@a5tr00]

until today I was 100% sure I would go for AWD. Now you changed my mind!

[@glennbishop-smith9957]

You sure did talk yourself in to the SR. I went through the same stuff last summer and bought the LR, and am glad I did. LR batteries are happier in cold weather, AWD is safer in bad weather. You played that down too much. I live in the PNW and that matters. I am a fan of LiFePO4 batteries, have them in my RV, but I want better cold weather performance and better energy density. And LR is definitely more fun to drive.

[@keekje]

This is the best video I could find when deciding between the two trims! Thanks

[@RBcymru]

The biggest factor is environment / ambient temperature. LFP batteries don't like colder climates and are less energy dense (at the moment). If manufacturers built the battery packs so they could be fitted to older cars then that would be a great idea. Tesla are building their cars around the battery so are they building obsolescence into the cars ?

[@wotmeworry59]

I am about to order an AWD Model 3. One factor not mentioned here is the Regen, one-pedal driving. While charging to 100% on the RWD should be done once a week (and as often as you like beyond that) that means frequent periods of no or limited regen/one-pedal driving. For me, why have a Tesla if I lose one-pedal driving (or much of it)? So, the 80% charge protocol is actually a plus to me, given that I will charge at home and can live with 80% of 75 kWh easily ... and the extra acceleration has real appeal to the child in me.

[@joewiley6927]

The amount of time without significant Regen from 100% is only a few %. Also, it is wise to use your brakes every once in a while, to keep the hydraulics working properly. Dr. Know-it-all recently had his brakes acting sticky, and the tech had him repeatedly use his brakes to get everything moving again.

[@billhunsinger862]

I had my brakes "freeze" after driving in rain and letting it sit for a week unused. I had to use some power to brake them loose, then use them to burnish the "edges".

[@drlizb]

I get your argument that both have an “equivalent” range considering you are charging one to 80% and the other to 100%. However, if you’re charging on the road, charging to 100% takes SIGNIFICANTLY longer than getting to 80%, regardless of what battery you have. Also there are a few routes (Kingman AZ to Flagstaff AZ comes to mind) where you need ALL your range-and you can always go over 80% in the long range if you need that range. (I’ve driven that route in a LR model Y, and I have no idea if it is possible in a standard range Tesla…)

[@Josh-oe4ex]

I've been shopping for full solar/battery home kits. LFP batteries have come UP in quality and WAY down in price. Rapidly. I am expecting a replacement cost of no more than 5 to 7k in 5 years. LFPs are not the be all end all but they are cheap and very durable

[@garryellis3085]

Thanks for the informative video, Jon. As I live in coastal Sydney, Australia, The rwd drive M3 plus is the go. In winter we never get below 7 degrees C at night or 11 degrees C during the day. That's over 50 F for you US people. I ordered a M3 for the ventilated seats and the best efficiency going around.

[@Skyprince27]

I find here in Canada, the car is basically unusable on the highway below -11°C. The range dropoff is like 40%. Even below -4°C, if you’re on a long trip using all Superchargers, the car doesn’t save money vs using a gas car.

[@Y2Kvids]

Did you check out Seal

[@SamiPaju]

Very useful breakdown of the differences. Thanks! Personally, I’m torn between SR and LR. I’d much prefer the LFP battery, slower charging is fine too, but here in Finland snowy conditions last 5-6 months. I tested the SR Highland and it was pretty easy to lose traction in the rear. If it was just for me, it would be a fun feature, but my wife probably won’t appreciate that aspect as much :D

[@GregB011]

Get the AWD, you wont regret it.

[@niklastrippler1053]

LFP owner here. Regenerative breaking is disabled from 100 to about 90% (someone probably know the exact values here). This means the LFP cars will be less efficient for the first 10% of the battery, and if you charge up to 100% all the time, this will be quite a bit of the time, and brings up the cost per km a bit in comparison to the long range, which "never" has to disable regenerative breaking. Still not anywhere near as expensive as diesel, but worth mentioning.

[@baphomathedude8057]

As I see it, the audio can be upgraded either aftermarket or probably they left the speakers in the cars and we just have to reconnect them like with the last model. You lose some range upfront, but I feel like the RWD will last longer. One thing to keep in mind, the RWD is a bit slower on the acceleration, but its still faster then anything your used to if your coming from your average ICE car. Honestly, having test driven both, the sound system is great, and unless your whole life is audio, it would be fine for everyone.

[@Fahrenheit53]

If you’re on a road trip and charge to 80% then the LR AwD will have 270 miles while the RW LFP will have 217 miles. I’ll opt for the LR.

[@Kareem-cx4fi]

Theoretically yes, but in the real world it's not that different . The LFP pack has some of the best charging curves in Teslas line up. It's smaller but charges at higher speeds deeper into the pack than the LR, and it's more efficient. The main advantage of the LR is on the first leg when leaving home fully charged. After that, if you try to cannon ball, charging for like 15 minutes and on to the next charger, to make the best time. You will be surprised, in the real world the 2 or not far apart. Out of spec has done plenty of these tests and Teslas rwd LFP model is one of their most efficient EVs for charging in 15 minutes and getting the most miles in that time for the next leg of a road trip.

[@bsaxman2012]

@Fahrenheit53 Agreed. I drove a new 2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+ on my first summer road trip to Colorado from Dallas. I was able to do the road trip but there were times when I wished I had the larger battery capacity to deal with strong headwinds and destinations with distant supercharger intervals. I made the same trip in a 2022 Model 3 LR and last summer in my 2023 MY LR and the extra range made the trip so much more enjoyable. I'm glad to have the option to charge beyond 80%, when needed.

[@Kareem-cx4fi]

@@bsaxman2012 I will just say 2019 vs 2022 onwards sr+ uses a way different chemistry (nca vs LFP) and a larger battery capacity with more range, so just driving these 2 are totally different experiences, but to each their own.

[@JohnSmith-ux3tt]

Except Tesla says, to enhance battery longevity, you should not drop the SOC below 50%. So you charge to 80% until its 50% and then find a charger. So a difference of 30% which is 81 miles. So your effective range, as recommenddd by Tesla, is 81 miles. Good luck.

[@CowCatwithafancyHat]

If you can go dual motor without looking back. The power difference is night and day, 0-60 is a shitty comparison; The power brings joy at any speed you press the pedal. The sound system is another huge difference. All that + AWD is sort of "why would I do that to my self" unless is the absolute maximum I can afford.

[@mllanest]

Thanks!! I do really like when facts come supported by numbers. Useful video.

[@superrico5208]

There’s a significant difference between the two Tesla models, and I think it’s important for people to understand this. With the RWD (Rear-Wheel Drive) version, the real-world range while traveling at 70 mph on the highway is about 200 miles if you charge to 100%. This means you’ll need to make several stops during long trips. Charging from 10% to 100% takes about an hour at a Supercharger. In contrast, the Long Range model can get 200 miles with just 80% of the battery charged, and recharging from 10% to 80% only takes about 27 minutes at a Supercharger. This is a huge difference in convenience and travel time. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize this when I bought my Tesla a year ago, and now I’m trading it in. Spending an hour at the Supercharger each time really adds up. For example, on a trip that should take 4 hours, the extra charging stops with the RWD can add 3 to 4 hours to your total travel time. With the Long Range model, the added time is cut down to about 1 extra hour. Trust me, this makes a big difference on long trips.

[@JPDB7]

This is the exact video I wanted. Thank you!

[@dieseldavebrown]

I got the 23 k M3 made in June of 2018. I live in Canada where it is cold and we potentially get snow 6 months of the year. I am glad I got the long range and unfortunately there were no AWD models when I got my car and it is my only regret.

[@JeffGardner-ca]

I started out with looking at rwd as well with LFP battery, but decided with the cold spell LFP was too limiting, switch to AWD and NCA.

[@RichardJansen-j6q]

Excellent video, thanks for explaining the difference in Model 3 options.

[@kylester89]

How do we know the LR will not have LFP batteries in the US?

[@doyleelad1113]

I imagine the reason is that a larger sized LFP battery pack won't fit. The NMC battery type in the long range is more energy dense, so a larger energy capacity for the same space.

[@kylester89]

@@doyleelad1113 - Just stop. I've spoke to 2 tesla employees now and both have confirmed the LR is coming out with LFP.

[@LeoMiller-u2w]

​@@kylester89 might be possible without AWD, it might be RWD long range model. but as @doyledlad1113 said, energy density is big problem. if there long range with big and heavy battery pack(which is LFP) will decrease the efficiency of BEV.

[@Lukimator]

@@kylester89 can you say more about that? Are they going to change both batteries in RWD and LR or just the LR?

[@JeffGardner-ca]

I can’t find the data to support this, but my impression is that the LFP battery has a much greater loss of range in colder weather than NCA. That needs to be factored into the equation.

[@Cleanerwatt]

Maybe in really extreme weather, but for general cold weather, Bjorn Nyland's testing has shown good winter range results for the LFP Model 3.

[@laurencejenner1127]

Fair points, but fundamentally the LR battery is larger and provides more range. I only charge to 100% for road trips but that extra 100+km makes a real difference. The LR is also quicker and is of course AWD.

[@marierogers1865]

Your information tables are always very helpful. Good video.

[@Cleanerwatt]

Glad you like them!

[@replica1052]

(luxury cars should have 4 wheel drive -the subwoofers add to the experience when you do in-car gaming and watch rocket launches )

[@majly85]

LR is important in 2 scenarios. 1-Winter and ride in snow to ski. 4x4 is much much better. 2-And long trips, where charge it to 80% is much much faster then charge SR to 100% to get same range. If you are in a hurry LR is better choice. And if you charge SR to 80%, you have much smaller range then in LR.

[@sunrisejak2709]

Having the performance of the dual motor is not so penalizing. If driven modestly the extra motor does not seem to be that much more inefficient than the single motor. Hence no down side having the additional power available. Thus I sprung for the dual motor and love it. Generally I drive modestly and get good efficiency. But when I apply the full performance of the 2 motors it's nice to have it. For me overall the dual motor is a better choice.

[@alexmartens5276]

Best video comparing an LFP and a LR! Any chance you're planning to make a video comparing a 2022 LFP M3 to a 2021 LR M3? They are similarly priced and it would be interesting to see the actual range and charging speed differences

[@SWR112]

Very well explained and I’m a avid follower of Tesla and EV’s and still learned some good info there.

[@TomTom-cm2oq]

Definitely worth the extra money to get the Long Range. I speak from vast experience. Resale value is a factor that needs to be addressed and was not covered. Great video!

[@GregB011]

Love my dual motor,,, i wouldn't even consider a the standard range.

[@RomanTheMan]

For resell value, does the dual motor outweigh the fact that the battery degrades faster on a Long Range model?

[@pauld6967]

We need a brave soul to own both and put the LFP battery into the Long Range. Then run the teats and see what the range works out to be on a long road trip as well as a week or two of typical daily driving around town when supplying power to two motors BUT also able to charge to 100% every single time.

[@creosl]

Driving the tm3 awd around the artic circle for several years I had zero issues with it. Buying a LR is mostly for people like to spend more money on cars than necessary.

[@theproffessional9]

An LFP model 3 with full premium interior would be perfect, it's too bad that they they only have the full premium interior on the one with the battery with a shorter life, which is the most important part of the car.. cars are the second biggest purchase most people make, so longevity is key.

[@waynerussell6401]

NCM can outlast LFP. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qICkip2ZhJuel9E

[@bundy26]

I only do on average, 20-30 miles a day. The LFP is more than enough for what I need. I only use 110V since I don't have a 240V installed (coming this spring). From Sept 12 (purchase day) till Feb 9 (charging at home every day to 100%), I've only lost less than 0.8% range (272 to 270) at 3000 miles. I don't know if this is good or not but all I can say is that I feel I made the correct choice in getting a RWD.

[@xenotropic6245]

How long does it take to charge using the 110V?

[@bundy26]

@xenotropic6245 it will charge to 100% overnight. I believe it's 2-3 miles per hour on level one. Since then, I've installed a 240v outlet. Still love this car. A few months ago I went on a trip from NJ to Indianapolis and it was uneventful. The charging was quick and stress-free. Unless you want the extra acceleration, this is the ideal car.

[@xenotropic6245]

@@bundy26 thank you for the heads up. I live in NJ and have been debating on if I should go for the Model 3 RWD or not but this comment helps!

[@bundy26]

@xenotropic6245 glad to help, good luck!

[@xenotropic6245]

@@bundy26 thank you!

[@danieljones7560]

One thing you didn't mention was climate. Are LFP better or worse in certain climates? I know I have seen some reports LFP holds up better in very hot climates such as AZ and parts of CA deserts. And how about very cold climates?

[@liangnie9148]

The most informative video I’ve ever seen! Big thumbs up!🎉🎉🎉

[@si2k7801]

This was an eye opening video. Thank you for this!

[@wokenbrilliance9034]

I just took delivery of a 2025 model 3 how do I know what battery I have? Thanks

[@dyrandoms]

Amazing breakdown. Thank you.

[@Jonesdawg79]

Also, if I remember right, both the RWD and Long Range both utilize the LFP batteries. They haven't had the 2170s in the long range 3 for a while now...

[@Cleanerwatt]

Incorrect. The Long range has 2170 batteries made by LG. LFP batteries cannot provide 341 miles of EPA range in a Model 3. They don't have enough energy density for that.

[@rdsattube]

I can use the extra range due to frequent long drives where chargers are spread out. You’re right on about the standard being adequate due to the battery tech. I want the high end stereo though. It’s unavailable in standard though. Between that and lack of CarPlay…almost as frustrating as the German brand nonsense.

[@JRP3]

Unless you plan to use near the maximum range on a daily basis I don't think it's relevant to compare the 80% charge of the LR to 100% of the SR. Most people only need full range on rare occasions so occasional 100% charge on the LR won't significantly increase capacity loss. The valid comparison is full charge to full charge.

[@MarkoMarkovina]

No it's not! What are you talking about? You charge once a week and your charge standard range to 100% but long range you charge to 80% unless you wanna fuck up your battery. Rarely you will charge to 100% so it's almost irrelevant.... You logic has no logic at all. Why would you use maximum range daily? You can use it weekly and you will get the same amount of miles out of both cars...

[@daveharris2884]

Thanks for the thorough video. I think that the LFP rear wheel Model 3 version is the best choice. Also, probably safer as well. It would be great if the car would last 20 years or more.

[@antokne]

My 2021 model 3 LFP has done 30,000km and Tessie reports 4.1% battery degradation. Which according to their app is in line with crowd sourced data.

[@jordanpack5571]

Performance boost in the LR!

[@BobbieGWhiz]

My June 2023 Model 3 RWD with LFP batteries has lost 3% of its range in a little under 7000 miles. Initial range was 273 and now 265. Almost all my charging has been level two and I drive it conservatively. I’m not sure that 2% figure is accurate, or I’m doing much worse than expected.

[@AkmalAnvarov1]

I have April 2023 Model 3 RWD with LFP, driven for taxi, 32 000 miles, 100% supercharged, currently have 265 miles, I think time has more effect on lfp degradation then usage

[@XBLASTLIFEX]

April 2023 Model 3 RWD LFP battery here- I’ve driven 7000 miles and haven’t super charged once. Charging to 100% every night and my full charge is 265 miles now. About the same as yours.

[@AlexandreLollini]

Once lithium ion is degraded, THEN it can last a very long time in the degraded state. When I build things with used 18650 the lowest performes last the longer, and when I purchase used lots, I only have to discard 8 %. But then on the long rune none did go bad on me.

[@Chief-Hazard]

I don't think the "daily range" comparison is much to take into consideration for most people. Most won't drive that full range every day, and it's fine to charge the 2170 batteries to 100% every so often for a road trip. Not knocking your detailed analysis though - great work. I'm considering the RWD vs the LR right now. Also a huge note: the price of each model is nearly identical if you qualify for and receive the $7500 EV tax credit for the LR. Edit after doing some research: Keeping a lower state of charge and only charging to 100% once a week is still more healthy for the battery life of the LFP.

[@lvorosm]

One fact that has not been mentioned is the charging speed from 80% to 100%, which is a significant factor to be considered when fast charging. LFP batteries will typically not be recharged to 100% on fast chargers, so the comparison between a 100% LFP and an 80% 2170 is unfair - especially when you compared charging speeds only to 80% on the LFP batteries.

[@t.d.5804]

Got a BYD LFP in my MY SR. It charges 20-90% in 20min. 14-100% on a V2 charger in 31min. This BYD is a bit better than the Catl Tesla currently uses. Fast charging is nearly the same as with the LR batteries

[@MydNitQ]

You argue that the lfp Batteries can be charged to 100% constantly but then do a charge time comparison of both of them from 10-80%. You don’t factor in the additional time for the lfp to go from 80-100%

[@Original_Rando]

It's a bit inconsistent to compare the 100% charge range of LFP to 80% charge range of the LR and then compare only the 20-80% charge time of both. To maintain that equivalent range , you need to compare the 20-100% charge time of LFP to the 20-80% charge time of the LR. At that point, of course, the miles per minute of charge will substantially favor the LR. Of course in both cases, road trip charging stops (and target charge level) are most often dictated by where the next reachable charger is along your route.

[@obiwan007]

If you charge to 100% in the SR - you will probably not make it in 1h... On a supercharger u would usually just got to 80% independant of LFP or non LFP. Charging >80% is just a waste of time and makes only sense if you start a trip. Recharging during a trip is what makes the LR a bit faster charging (I think) - 250kW compared to 170kW... Of cause always going only to 80% as the speed degrades very fast after that "border".

[@Original_Rando]

Of course but then the range between the two is no longer the same. So if you want equivalent range then you will have to pay the charge time penalty above 80% on the LFP.

[@obiwan007]

But then you would charge to 100% on the LR too... You should compare it via the time it takes to a "usable" timerange. Nobody likes to stay at a supercharger for 1h... You could easily take another full 10-80% in the same time it takes 80-100%... And get way more miles out. Of cause you could charge SR to 100 and LR to 80. But this is not usable on a longer trip - only for daily commute... And then the range does not matter anyways. If you do not need the 17 speakers and more horsepower - but the SR... @@Original_Rando

[@Original_Rando]

His comparison is range. The LFP range at 100% is equivalent to the LR range at 80% If you need to charge the LR to 80% to reach the next stop, you will need to charge the LFP to 100% to reach that same next stop. Your charge time per mile will be substantially worse in every case where the range difference matters.

[@JacobGagoOfficial]

I've coming from an LFP and the battery degradation is crazy. 253 to 243-245.

[@jaycasbon6703]

Have driven 5k with my LFP Model 3 - very satisfied with the performance including the range and charging times. Unless you need AWD, the base model is a deal!

[@DavidWagelmans]

Man that was a good comparison. Thanks 😊

[@raulsuazo5015]

So basically in the long range you still have 20% of battery unused. If you are doing a long trip the standard rear wheel drive at 100% charge is 272 miles while the dual motor its 338 miles. Plus better sound system and 20000 more miles into the warranty, all wheel drive, faster…. If i am gonna pay premium for a vehicle i want a premium vehicle. Dual motor long range its the way to go in my opinion.

[@hifirulezzz]

The problem is with the charge speed above 65%. not with the batteries itself. You will not be waiting additional 30-40 minutes to get LFP from 80 to 100%

[@jerrybowen2869]

Have been studying this subject for several weeks but I still learned several things from your video. Just placed an order for the Model 3 RWD. Originally placed the order for the dual motor version assuming they had similar battery types. Found out there is no charge to edit the order from AWD to RWD (unless a VIN has already been assigned). Wonder why the drivetrain warranty for the LFP version is only 100k miles?? That's concerning to me.

[@MrGeoffrey1998]

You rock man ! Answered the question i had. I wanna upgrade my cheap fiesta either to a swift sport (80k kms from 2014 here they cost from 12 to 14k euros in France) but a Tesla is around 20-25k for less than 60k kms, 2020.. so let's say double the price But in 120k miles I'll have easily recovered the cost of buying the tesla compared to spending money on gas.. So i was wondering about the LFP vs standard 2170. Plus i believe to reduce battery degradation on the 2170 you should use it from 20 to 80% and not 0 to 80% so yeah if you wanna keep it 10+ years like i plan to (i kept my crappy but reliable fiesta for 5 years and still love it) i think the LFP is a no brainer

[@AlexandreLollini]

before that I had a LFP 12v barrery in all my cars, meaning THE SAME battery went from car to car since 2012 to 2023, those were HEADWAY cells 12AH a set of 4. The startup of ICE engines was always strong, and even tho I sold the cars I kept that battery. LFP is OK for MAD MAX situation ahead. : meaning to keep the car 30 years.

[@Modikie]

The thing is, the LR has dual motors while the rwd only has 1 motor, so we can't say for sure that an LFP with dual motors would be significantly slower if all other factors bring equal

[@hieyeque1]

The LFP pack is heavier than the 2170 based pack, because it has less energy density. If you add the weight of an additional motor + LFP pack, it gets much heavier. I have the LFP pack in the my 2023 M3. I love being able to charge to 100% and not worry about it. But I believe another reason Tesla favors the other battery chemistries is LFP batteries have a lower C-Rate. That means they can only put out so much juice (and be charged only so fast) when compared to the 2170. It is possibly the case that the reason the LFP based M3 is slower than their 2170 counter parts is not the motor, but the C-Rate of the battery....

[@TranTek]

from my experience splash and go works best with LFP and long range tends to be slower unless your state of charge is lower than 10% i had follow and watched Bjorn since he start with Nimber task using his rwd model S

[@Kabab]

You missed an important limiting factor with the lithium ion pack. You should only charge it to 80% max capacity but you also should not ever drop it below around 15%. This further limits the usable daily range significantly. Go lithium iron phosphate pack generally doesn't care as much if you drop it down to 1%. Another thing to consider is the curb weight of each vehicle. While the lithium ion I believe will still be a little lighter, a lithium iron is not going to weigh significantly more because while the charge density of lithium-iron is much lower, the chemistry is much safe for so you don't need to package it as drastically as you would a lithium ion

[@picapica199]

great video comparing the overall expectations of the different battery types - I was aware of the recommendation difference for total charging (LFP = 100%; NMC = 80%) but I don't see much about how often to charge (or at what percentage of remaining use) - I recall with regular rechargeable smaller batteries, in the past it seemed the recommendation was not to charge them often when only a small amount of charge had been used as it would create a "memory effect" and impact the recharging level over time. But what about the LFP? My thought was to let the battery drop to at least 50% or less if just using the car locally and recharging at home - whereas my wife seems to think it is important to charge up as soon as the % drops to 70-80 ... what is the proper way to handle timing for recharging - use up a lot of the charge before recharging or recharge frequently? Does taking one path over the over significantly impact the overall life of the battery pack? - Thanks

[@Chief-Hazard]

It is healthier for both batteries to keep them topped off as much as possible. Plug in whenever you can. Charging from low charge to full will degrade your battery chemistry faster than just plugging it in every day. I got curious about this myself and did some digging through google and KZbin. I'm sure you can find the videos as well. Edit: based on some more quick research, it's still healthier for an LFP battery lifespan to keep it at a lower state of charge. Charging it to 100% every so often is to calibrate it.

[@CBKaehny]

Why are you suggesting charging to 100% isn’t going to degrade the LFP? Not as fast as NMC sure, but it’s not ideal for the pack to be charged from, say, 90 to 100 over and over.

[@Cleanerwatt]

Please watch this previous video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rojOg2l8os6kmpI Tesla recommends this practice and it doesn't appear to be having a negative effect.

[@shpe11]

long range(more range) is nice to have; so other loud cars are nice to have but let's be practical and go LFP I say go with long range if you really need AWD

[@leopark8579]

Biased toward LFP battery ,when talking about driving range ,used data with LFP charged 100% , when talking about charging time ,LFP charged to 80% , so LFP can look better.

[@leafnutz2341]

great video! looking forward to next gen LFP combined with AWD

[@LeoMiller-u2w]

it is probably not possible because energy density of LFP battery is too low, so with AWD and LFP range will be significantly decreased. like 190~200miles i think

[@Lukimator]

@@LeoMiller-u2w current LFP yes, but hopefully they can improve their density a bit. I'm actually waiting for any kind of battery improvement before I jump in, it has been a few years since the last update and I feel it won't take much longer

[@LeoMiller-u2w]

​@@Lukimator well it pretty hard to increase density, CATL and BYD did good job on packing batteries together but was not able to increase density drastically in each battery. it is limit of LFP due to its material which is Iron. you probably should wait until the solid battery comes out.

[@Lukimator]

@@LeoMiller-u2w I think they already have increased it, but that Tesla isn't using the latest tech to keep costs down. Current LFPs have around 150wh/kg and newer CATL M3P batteries (LMFP) can reach 230wh/kg. Maybe upgraded model Y Juniper will use these and hopefully they will start fitting them on model 3 too. It was rumoured new model Y SR would have a new 66kwh battery

[@LeoMiller-u2w]

​@@Lukimator Well, If you live outside US, M3P battery will be a good choice if adopted, but in my opinion Tesla won't use it in US, because it will not qualify the tax credit. which make M3P battery expensive compare to NCM or NCA which is better choice if the price is same (or the LFP produced in US with US tech)

[@robinsonreichel1268]

Get a good pre-owned LR with acceleration boost. Top speed is significantly higher. There are very nice seat covers that can make up for the ventilated seats. 😁

[@KP-xi4bj]

Not the Highland version. It's capped at 125 mph.

[@robinsonreichel1268]

@@KP-xi4bj That is exactly what I’m talking about. 😉

[@SunshineVocals]

Got stuck with my friend's RWD model 3 in mushy snow that was somewhat deep but not that bad. I dont think RWD is good for Canada"s winter. The range lost in -30+ degree also is massive.

[@timtessman3107]

Could Tesla "Shipping Optimus" be referring to their delivering Optimus to GigaMex for incorporation into the "Unboxed and Unmanned Assembly" production set to be unveiled ? I think so.

[@rhiantaylor3446]

I made the same observation when the LFP models were first announced but it may be overstated. If planning a long journey I would always charge to 100% just before leaving and for shorter distance trips, the range doesn't matter nearly so much.

[@berthogendoorn2133]

Big problem is a single motor version has 1/2 the battery heating capacity compared to the dual Motor a big issue when you are in a cold climate especially when the single motor's LFP batteries does not do as well as the NMC batteries in the AWD.

[@vtv8man]

I think the point that the Long Range is also AWD and some of us need that for mid and snow - is missing.

[@miami3863]

Just ordered the RWD Highland last night. This video is just icy on top of my decision.

[@jerrybowen2869]

Me, too! Yee-hawww! Can't wait.

[@jerryjensen5052]

No sports car has beat me off the line yet they might get me down the road but not off the line with my single motor😊

[@gibbions]

Is there a similar comparison with the model Y? Tesla’s RWD vs LR version of model Y

[@Cleanerwatt]

Yes, right here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/epDGk4mYoceeq68

[@michael-v9b7h]

what’s the recommended battery charging/discharging daily routine for the LFP battery would be?

[@Chief-Hazard]

1. Charge to 100% at least once a week so it can calibrate. 2. Charge as often as possible - for either battery. Frequent but smaller charges is healthier than infrequent large charges. It engages more of the battery chemistry. 3. For either battery, keeping a lower state of charge will extend the battery life. Even if you have an LFP battery.

[@41istair]

Please obtain details of charging losses across the various packs. IE the difference between the KWh units consumed by the charger and thus paid for (both at home or on the street) vs the KWh actually received by the battery. In Harry Metcalf's recent review of the BMW i5 M60 Xdrive, he observed a 10% charging loss.

[@Cleanerwatt]

A 10-12% kW loss during fast DC charging is completely normal for even Tesla EVs.

[@apn42]

Tesla should make the long range RWD variant permanent for lower insurance cost and superior range. I worry that the LFP equipped model may give misleading SOC reading when not charged regularly to 100% and this can be hard to achieve if you can't charge at home or at work. LFP batteries have a larger degradation short term, but probably an overall lower degradation long term.

[@mariuscodreanu4552]

so why on tesla website is averting as 390 for the long range while in your video is 341?

[@tonymai1844]

Mod3 with LFP ModY with LFP. final result for driver not in cold weather, snow that needed traction of AWD.

[@RemoteSpeed007]

Huge difference in performance, especially if you get the boost.

[@TommyboyGTP]

What's the weight difference between the two?

[@MelbHusTLA]

Great vid and appreciate you collating this information. One thing i cannot seem to get my head around is : im looking at trading in my truck for a model 3 RWD , can i charge the battery to 100% ??

[@pkerry12]

I live in Australia we don’t have winter at all 12 months of summer LFP is the best option unless u want speed

[@gordonmynard855]

Australian speed limits also mean you don't need the extra engjne

[@pkerry12]

@@gordonmynard855 yep there is very little reason to get the long range model.

[@sp1nnak3r]

@@pkerry12Agreed. I am about to pull the trigger on a SR. Living in Brissie, so our winters are like most other places summers and with the congestion these days you are not really going fast.