253: Family Estrangement with Tina Gilbertson

[@EricGreene]

I have always enjoyed every episode of Therapy Chat, but not so much with this one. There is a pattern I notice in discussions around estrangement, and that is how much attention and concern is given for the estranged parents of adult children, with very little concern or attention given to estranged adult children. At least in this episode there isn't as much blame and shame towards the adult children as I've heard elsewhere. And Tina Gilbertson's advice is at least a step in the right direction. But it just doesn't go nearly far enough. Estranged parents have a lot of inner work to do. They are 99 times out of 100 clueless about what's going on with their adult children. And whenever challenged about that, you always hear the old "well they did the best they could do" and that's supposed to silence any suggestion that maybe there actually was some abusiveness, or narcissism, or alcoholism, or emotional neglect, or whatever it was that caused the break in the relationship. But nobody wants to talk about that. Everyone wants to soothe the hurts of the estranged parent and tend to their wounds, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, everyone deserves empathy and understanding; the problem is that we dismiss the real issues that happened in the actual relationships. The minimizing, the gaslighting, the drinking, the emotional neglect, the authoritarian attitudes, the abusiveness, whatever it was. Seems like nobody wants to ever get into that. And as for the hurts and wounds experienced by estranged adult children? Rarely ever mentioned, just like in this episode. I'm sorry Laura I do love your show, but I'm really not a fan of what I heard on this episode.

[@nicolec5659]

This is spot on! I’m glad I read this comment before listening for an hour. My “mom” has neglected me since conception. She literally does not talk to me, has me blocked even though she knows I’m totally alone and really struggling. For some reason I survived some serious things as a child, and once my sister was born I was completely forgotten, left home alone all the time where the police would come. I truly think my mom considers me dead because if she talks to me or sees what I’m going through instead of denying it she probably couldn’t live with herself day to day not only with the trauma I endured but up to now at 40 years old, she had never showed up for me it doesn’t matter if I’m having surgery or it’s Christmas I don’t phase her. I tried looking for content about this and literally not one video, everything for the parents and it’s really disappointing because this enables me from healing as I’m alone & vulnerable and I can’t comprehend how the woman that gave birth to me can pretend I don’t exist. It bothers me so much to hear “ they did their best” “ they were traumatized “ it’s so dismissive and no one enforces accountability & honesty that their actions really mold so much about us. You are always told “you don’t need an apology to heal” well we need to start enforcing parents to acknowledge what they really did. Because I’m sure like my mother they are delusional and in denial and tell you to get over it. It bothers me so much!

[@MissSarahGM]

I wish you would address the reverse situation : when parents cut off their adult children. It is never tackled. In my situation my mother has cut me off for five months, after we had fights during quarantine. She would act like the victim and couldn't stand me, she put me in the persecutor role. It was so painful to be ignored for this long. She finally sent a text for my birthday, claiming she cut with all the family for health reasons, (I believe it has been just against me, not my brother), she added that she's not ready for calls, only few text messages, or she gets stressed and she needs calm.. She put the focus on her again and her health, to prevent me from bringing up her abusive silent treatment. Not caring how I have been doing. I was first moved she contacted me but now I realize she doesn't show much empathy and I will have to walk on eggshells if I want a relationship with her, as she can't be accountable for how her silent treatment impacted me.

[@EricGreene]

It's interesting to me how rare estranged adult children are the focus of attention from therapists, counselors and educators. It's so often all about the parent. How can we help the parent who is estranged from their adult children. What needs does the estranged parent have that aren't being met. How the estranged parent deserves empathy and compassion. But the adult children? Nope! Not talked about. Not addressed. What are the adult children's needs? Sometimes, like in this episode, you get some lip service, but it's often a matter of "oh they deserve empathy and understanding too" and then the attention is turned right back on the suffering of the estranged parent. Yes, even in therapist circles. So much focus and concern for the estranged parent, rarely for the estranged adult child.

[@MissSarahGM]

Eric Greene, thank you! Indeed, I have been researching the subject and all I found was an article in Psychology today, titled "Why a mother would cut a child out of her life" and the few situations mentioned show a lot of abuse, even malice, extreme splitting and projection onto the estranged adult child. Conversely, there are plethora of resources dealing with the estranged parents suffering, often showing little capacity for self reflection and arguing about having access to their grand children as a sort of universal human right, and each party objectifying the kids. For my situation, what I have found helpful and making sense is looking into emotionally neglectful parents, victim vulnerable narcissism, which seem to describe well my family dynamic and my mother (I always thought my dad was the only narcissist). I have had to deal with a lot of self doubt and shame - "if my own mother doesn't want to have a relationship with me, I must be a horrible person" - I have become aware of my own codependency to her, and have experienced a deep sadness, also reconnected to all the times I was abandoned by her as a kid, not soothed, not protected from the family chaos (narcissistic dad and a schizophrenic older bother). All the overlooked past trauma has resurfaced. I felt relieved and happy that she had a thought for me on my birthday, but something is broken, and she doesn't seem to be capable of seeing her abusive behaviors. I don't feel independent enough to cut her out my life, but I don't want to be treated as a persecutor by her. That is her narrative of our relationship and it's usually revision of history and total gaslight. For example while I was staying at her place during quarantine, and she started fights with me, she would open windows and door of the apartment and started to scream for help, as if assaulted, I was in shock... later she emailed me that she has psychological issues because of my abuse. So maybe she now knows she went too far, and doesn't want me to challenge her version of the story. She always has been hypersensitive to any criticism, which is why I think she might be narcissistic as well. Should I accept not to discuss what happened and a low level relationship with her? She knows how destructive is the silent treatment for me, so I feel like she is controlling my "rebellious" nature with the threat of estrangement. Also I am questioning if there could be other valid reasons why a parent would estrange their adult children, apart from narcissistic traits/personality? Could it be as she said for mental health reasons? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I saw that you're a coach or therapist as well :)

[@Valentina-Steinway]

@ Sarah M: My mother cut me off from the time I was born. She died in March..... never wanting to speak to me. All loose ends left unraveled. She emotionally could not face her abandoning me. Here I am, stuck. No closure. She of course had a phenomenal relationship with my daughter ( they only met three times in 35 years) all through Skype, and she lied about the “ story” Had her own narrative. I guess that was her way to relieve herself of her guilt. Except she ruined MY relationship with my daughter, and we were very close. Hard bone to tackle.

[@TaharkahX]

Informative, thanks!

[@JenniferMeinel]

I agree with everyone else. We need more discussion on parents initiating the estrangement and rejection of their children. As I've done research to try and understand my parents never wanting a relationship with me, it's been very hard to find anything written or spoken about regarding that dynamic. Can you do a podcast about that?

[@MissSarahGM]

Great suggestion. Peg Streep is the author of the article I found on the subject in Psychology Today. She also wrote "Daughter Detox : recovering from an unloving mother and reclaiming your life". A discussion with her would be interesting. Or Dr Hal Shorey who wrote about estrangement initiated by the parents as well.

[@TherapyChatPodcast]

Check out Bethany Webster's work on healing the Mother Wound! I'd like to interview her as well. Thanks for your feedback!