#257

[@whatevah666]

So first you mask the id/pac nr then you give it away several times further into the video ;) (not that it should matter much, but still a little funny)

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right!

[@gkdotclass]

Gurk Burk the PAC is a one time use code anyway, so the one printed by the Arduino is already used and no longer valid. The next PAC is available in the Sigfox dashboard only,

[@earllewis4396]

@@AndreasSpiess I know this video is old but could you kindly do a comparison between LORA, Sigfox and Wirepas. Many thanks!

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@earllewis4396 I never heard of Wirepas :-(

[@earllewis4396]

@@AndreasSpiess Thanks for getting back to me. Would be a pleasure to have a chat with you anyway. I did reach out on Facebook might be able to take it from there if you still use that platform.

[@thingsmadebyjoe]

I love how the crocs were blurred out in the intro!

[@AndreasSpiess]

It was a test of a KZbin feature ;-)

[@cebubikebootcamp]

I love how you identify it as crocs, I had hard time identifying it hahaha

[@unarvuiot]

Been a sigfox hardware developer since 2016, your video is balanced and accurate, have to suppor your channel

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your compliment!

[@PCREVOLUTION]

Sunday morning, cup of tea, open KZbin, click like and see the new vid 🏁

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad you like it!

[@RTPTechTips]

Thanks for the direct comparison. Great video! :)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad it was helpful!

[@dominicdechangy8365]

Another excellent video from the "Expert with a Swiss accent": thank you so much for the qulity of the video. Please note that the 10xDL max.message per day comes from TTN "best practices" only: you do not have such limitation if you run a private LoRaWAN network (what you can forget with SIGFOX), nor if you use an Operator network (you might just pay more for these extra DL...). The deep indoor propagation of LoRaWAN is also better than SIGFOX.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I compared TTN with Sigfox, because they are comparable (existing network is usable for non-network owners). Otherwise, I would have to compare many other technologies like Weightless. And then, I am not sure if LoRaWAN with its complexity would be the best choice. I do not know how many Makers build a full private LoRaWAN network stack for their few sensors. The effort is not small and a simple receiver would probably be a better choice. I think the attraction of TTN and LoRaWAN is, that we can avoid this effort. As I mention in the video, LoRaWAN and Sigfox have comparable link budgets at the same frequency. I would expect that the indoors propagation is similar unless you build your own gateway. And there, you are right, is probably the biggest difference between the two concepts for makers. For TTN you can add your own gateway (even single channel) which is much cheaper than the micro-gateway of Sigfox.

[@WacKEDmaN]

excellent video Andreas :) i like your use of gqrx!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@B16RDP]

Thank you so much Andreas for taking the time and effort to make such an interesting video. I am new to 0G tech like this. Here in the UAE Sigfox has the majority of Abu Dhabi and Dubai covered by a local provider. LoRaWAN I am not so sure about as you rightly say this is more community. That said du (Second Telcon in the UAE) are looking at this and NB-IoT. Apparently du and Etisalat already have NB-IoT in place and just need to switch it on.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Unfortunately, I do not see any gateways in your area anymore. Last time I looked I saw a few... I assume it is easy to cover Dubai. Just place a gateway at Burj Kalifa ;-)

[@ErkanOkman]

👍👏 Sigfox (country support)

[@id513128]

I'm glad that you have this episode since I can only use LoRAWAN for the moment (and, of course, because of your video series! Thanks! ). My country has NB-IoT for years now, but I still have many issues with the networks. Especially, the network doesn't support TCP protocol. And the community here is quite small compared to another network. Thanks for your video!

[@gkdotclass]

id513128 NB-IoT isn’t supposed to support TCP! It’s super wasteful to try to maintain an established guaranteed connection on top of it it, use UDP. Imagine it as LoRa and establishing TCP over LoRa... it would be crazy

[@id513128]

@@gkdotclass 1. I agree that using TCP protocol over NB-IoT is not a good idea. However, it's mean you have to set up a dedicated UDP/CoAP server just to relay to MQTT/REST/Firebase message/etc. or rely on telco's message service. (Which is very toxic to use in my case) Which is not maker-friendly to me. 2. Using UDP meaning that if you want data encryption, you have to implement yourself unlike LoRAWAN as Mr. Andres has mentioned. If TCP protocol is support (And, as far as I know, it should), then I can use more "standard" like HTTPS, MQTTs.

[@gkdotclass]

id513128 In NB-IoT over the air traffic is encrypted already. You can use MQTT-SN for similar functionality over UDP. TCP is not compatible with low power, especially in wireless with high chance of packet loss. Just like you don’t use TCP with LoRa don’t use TCP with NB. Similar principles. Yes both require intermediate servers if you want to bridge to some legacy service which doesn’t offer native integration. Actually the BEST strategy for NB is to use a bit like SMS using the Non-IP traffic feature. That is the truly low power of using it.

[@id513128]

@@gkdotclass Oh, I never heard about MQTT-SN before. Thanks for comment :D

[@lmamakos]

Another wonderful video, thanks! This comparison is very useful and informative, and as usual is nicely organized and presented.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your nice words!

[@nielbierman5882]

Nice informative video. Can not wait for the NB-IOT video.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@nheuro4207]

www.uboro.io Make your vehicles, field staff or IoT assets visible. Communicate with any tracking unit whatever it is

[@darrinpearce9780]

Another great info packed video. Thanks Andreas.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@highlanderes]

Thank you, great info. In addition, while Sigfox provide a service level, LoraWan/TTN enables setting up an extra gateway yourself, when there is no or poor coverage on a location. Landscape/topology can play a big role.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I thought I mentioned the homebuilt gateway ;-)

[@highlanderes]

Andreas Spiess Sure did, or buy them already built. Just to highlight this for deciding between the two.

[@martinets2]

Sigfox also offers the ability to setup a gateway (we call it base station) yourself. It's referred to as CaaS; Connectivity as a Service. The end user basically leases a Macro or Mini base station to enhance coverage in whatever area they desire. Contact a regional (conuntry) Sigfox operator for more details. ~Sigfox sales engineer

[@pierrelefort9338]

Hi Andreas very good video as usual, professional and easy to follow you have converted me to MQTT and ESP stuff I have one comment to make at 7:28 you calculate the link budget without antenna basically by substacting the receive threshold from the transmit power : 13 dBm -(-142dBm) = 155dB . When subtracting two power values (dBm) you have a number without unit which represents here the possible transmit antenuation in free air and obstacles. My two cents to your huge contribution I have currently a Zwave based (Vera 3) automation system which i will convert to Home assistant and node red + some ESP based I/O Thanks for putting your work to public Knowledge.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right with the dBm. My mistake!

[@MartinPDanz]

Always very enabling, inspiring and easy explained . Thanks 🙏🏽 again

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@nogthree]

The number of uplink messages allowed for sigfox is actually not hardcoded like in the video, it's based on the contract assigned to the device type in the Sigfox Backend. 140/day is a standard plan though. Also, Sigfox has 4 region bands, so there is roaming of a sorts because they use different carrier band sets in each region, there's a few devices that support RC1-4 but many are only for one region. Thanks for an informative comparison :)

[@AndreasSpiess]

I cannot mention every detail in 15 minutes. I did not mention the different bands because this is known to my viewers.

[@martinets2]

140/day is actually the max limit for a Sigfox device based on current pricing; it would be the highest cost plan: ~$1/month. 2 msg/day falls into the lowest cost plan:~$1/yr. Contact your regional (country) Sigfox operator for exact pricing. ~Sigfox sales engineer

[@mahudson3547]

Another very interesting comparison. It is a pleasure to have good engineering comparisons of the new technologies as they hatch. Watch the Weightless one too (good British engineering!) - it is quite compelling as it sits in white space, where the new WiFi standard is also proposed.

[@AndreasSpiess]

So far I did not cover infrastructure without networks, because it is only interesting for very few people. My viewers are mainly makers which are concentrated on the nodes. This technology is more interesting for network operators, I think.

[@mahudson3547]

@Andreas Spiess - I am not so sure when it comes to the reality of scalability. Maybe when the node hardware is in full production. www.ubiik.com/single-post/2018/02/26/New-Zealands-Weightless-LPWAN-Network-Deployment

[@Cptnbond]

Thanks Andreas, interesting as usual.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@mr8966]

Excellent video. Thank-you!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad you liked it!

[@karenrangel1255]

Thank you very much! Very professional!

[@dreale2]

Gratuliere zum Interview auf SRF! Gruess us Frenkendorf

[@AndreasSpiess]

Danke!

[@PhG1961]

Great video and surely interesting !

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@rostislavhruska8601]

Thank You Andreas!

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@samuelschwager]

Just got my two LoStiks recently. It's time to get them connected ;)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Enjoy!

[@spreeuferberlin]

Thank you!

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@MithunKalan]

I've played around with Sigfox here in South Africa. Good: coverage. Bad: service provider has a bad website, unknown how to get an SDK and unknown pricing, poor documentation to get the device registered on the sigfox backend, some of my chips were not able to be registered on Sigfox because the vendor has to do something on their side to enable it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your feedback. I think, documentation is not their strength ;-)

[@nheuro4207]

www.uboro.io Make your vehicles, field staff or IoT assets visible. Communicate with any tracking unit whatever it is

[@dukenuke2690]

On minute 9:00 you show the spectrum marked with the transmitted signals from lora and sigfox nodes. I can see that the sigfox basestation could just take the first sent signal and receive the signal correctly. But the lora signal is much wider and a tiny part interferes with the 3rd SigFox signal, how can this bit of information also be successfully received by the Lora-Basestation when it interferes with the sigfox signal ? Isnt it lost ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

If you have too long interference the signals are always lost. That is a problem of RF systems in general.

[@hongbinbin24]

Thanks for the video.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@iz0cez]

Very interesting video. Thanks for it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@wowo-12]

Never heard of Sigfox before thanks for the comparison I spotted a Casey Neistat Hoodie in the video 😄

[@AndreasSpiess]

Yes, I am one of his fans!

[@wilyartihoward2005]

First! Every Sunday without fail!

[@RyanBinford]

damn haha

[@holdream]

would it be possible to have 2 lora modules talking to each other and then one of them talk to a lorawan gateway? I Don't know if this case has been covered in LoRa videos, since there are so many I haven't had the chance to go through them all

[@AndreasSpiess]

A LoRa repeater should be possible. But I do not know if somebody built one. Sigfox seems to have one.

[@holdream]

@@AndreasSpiess thanks for the quick answer. I think you misunderstood what I meant, I don't want to improve the range of the gateway. I'd like to try having a star topology of lora nodes and one node serving as some sort of "hybrid" gateway (refering to my previous question: can loraWAN modules also do p2p with lora modules) to the real LoRaWAN gateway. Again, thanks for the informative videos.

[@AndreasSpiess]

That is what I call a repeater, if connected only to nodes or to nodes and a gateway. Or a gateway, if it is connected to the backbone

[@AndreasSpiess]

And I made a video about P2P with LoRa modules

[@TerboBlitz]

Does Swisscom now have NB-IoT coverage? If so, can you please run a demonstration test?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know if they have coverage. Last time I tried it did not work.

[@vh8413]

Good dear Andreas, I ask you if you have heard about Thread and if you are planning to make a video or if you have already done it on this topic. Talking the other day about Lora and IoT I was told about Thread and so far I do not understand how it works with respect to RF. tks!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Maybe I will do a video about it. But later when it is ready.

[@charlymosby9265]

Very interesting video, congratulations. Just one question: all the pictures of the internal components and graphics you show were made by yourself or can i finf them anywhere? Thank you

[@AndreasSpiess]

I try to add all sources. If there is no source it is done by me.

[@bollie9752]

Do you plan a video on your visit to The Things Conference? Btw, coverage is "so 2018'. Don't you expect Lorawan-satellite coverage later this year?

[@AndreasSpiess]

1. I did not plan a video from the conference. 2. I know Thomas from Lacuna (LoRa satellite) and we talked about a video when he is ready.

[@electronic7979]

Useful video 👍 very good

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for commenting every Sunday!

[@muctop17]

Hi Andreas! Well done! You mention sensitivity an link budget, but how´s about strong signal immunity? If you are close to another transmitter, do you still receive your message?

[@AndreasSpiess]

The transmitter does not care. Only the receiver (Gateway). I hope everyone cares about that when he places his gateway. All transmitters in ISM bands have to comply the same rules. Small power an 1% duty circle is

[@martinets2]

Andreas is correct. However here's a few facts about the Sigfox protocol - 1) it's Ultra Narrow Band (UNB) so more energy is focused at the transmission frequency which a) enables a device transmission to 'punch thru' average noise in the band and b) results in longer battery life, and 2) the message is transmitted 3 times at different frequencies (spread spectrum) so if there is too much noise at one frequency, chances are one of the other two message transmissions will get through. ~Sigfox sales engineer

[@avejst]

Nice, thanks for sharing :-)

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@davidkitts8017]

A few months back they deployed 5G cellular in my area. Tower is 4 blocks away. Will keep my ear to the ground if see they plan on deploying NB-IOT. Will continue experimenting with my private LORA network for now.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I think, LoRaWAN will stay a good alternative for Makers.

[@norm1124]

Interessant, danke

[@AndreasSpiess]

Bitte, gern geschehen

[@klemenpetrovcic3737]

I don't know if you've seen it, but there is a new, 70$, LoRa indoor gateway available.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Yes, I saw it. It does not make a lot of sense for me if I can build a 15$ single channel gateway. Why having 8 channels for a few sensors?

[@mikebrown7366]

It currently seems to have some reliability issues. I'm very happy with my relatively cheap RAK831 setup. It runs for weeks, so far, without issue. I suspect it will be fine for months at a time. Plus, it's more of a real computer (pi based), so I can run other applications on it easily. Plus, it's easier for me to make my gateway an outdoor device that it is to do so with the cheaper ttn gateway.

[@klemenpetrovcic3737]

@@mikebrown7366 I agree. Currently, the two main good sides of the indoor gateway are the price and the multichannel option. If they sort those issues, offer an option to connect an external antenna, so it could work as an external gateway, and make it possible, so the data can be transmitted to other cloud platforms, than I'm all for it.

[@marioenc04]

Excelent video! Where did you get the sigfox? Regards!

[@AndreasSpiess]

From the Swiss operator

[@gildasseimbille6045]

You can get it from the Arduino shop: store.arduino.cc/arduino-mkrfox1200

[@bdr420i]

13:14 «« The air time of all messages for each device (Sensors) or for the coverage node?

[@AndreasSpiess]

For each sensor and each gateway

[@cheesecake667]

What’s the best way to educate myself about radio communication/antennas etc. ? Maybe there is a good book? Im a Master Student in Mechatronic.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know because I learned the stuff 40 years ago. If you want a standard search for the ARRL Antenna Handbook. Thick and expensive :-(

[@mikebrown7366]

Become a ham and make a lot of your own antennas. You'll quickly find that there's a serious gap between theory (formulas) and reality. Antenna theory isn't far removed from voodoo and black magic. The higher in frequency you go, the weirder it gets. But even shortwave (HF) antennas will quickly show you that the simple formulas are only a starting point. Antennas are used in the real world where they interact with virtually everything around them. You'll need to come to terms with things like velocity factor and impedance matching. You could spend your life trying to master the theory, or you could experiment and see what works for you and what doesn't.

[@marcocaballero8748]

More videos for Sigfox please! Regards.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Because this is a closed system I will no more cover it.

[@rudysmd7350]

Sir i cannot find ESC brushless motor schematic for 200A or 300A 60 volt.. can we build one tutor please thanks... based arduino ..thanks

[@AndreasSpiess]

I have no knowledge about high power ESCs

[@GRBtutorials]

Check out GreatScott! He has tutorials on building ESCs.

[@rudysmd7350]

@@AndreasSpiess ok sir no problem 😊

[@rudysmd7350]

@@GRBtutorialsyes but greatscoot no more than 30A ..it will burn the mosfet fot motor 167KV .. need minimal ESC 170A ..😊

[@GRBtutorials]

Rudy Smd First off, KV ≠ A. KV indicates the speed, in RPM, to voltage ratio. A 100 KV motor, for example, rotates at 500 RPM at 5 V, 1000 RPM at 10 V, etc. If you meant amps (A), well, it’s just a matter of getting more powerful MOSFETs.

[@santopino2546]

Excellent as usual. Do you think the future 5G will kill LoRa and Sigfox? Or they cover different needs?

[@gkdotclass]

Mobile phone operators are traditionally very slow moving, many don’t yet support basic 5 year old 4G features let alone 5G.. LoRa and Sigfox tend to be more agile. On the other hand true bidirectional data and allocated spectrum is a good thing to have, critical even in some applications. So I think we’ll continue to see both fields moving forward.

[@AndreasSpiess]

If I would be able to read the future I am not sure I would do what I do now ;-)

[@santopino2546]

@@AndreasSpiess It's about what you believe in particolar what you know, if anything, about 5G. Let's put it this way, I don't know much about these networks, if they cover the same market segment, than we can be quite sure LoRa and Sigfox will not be able to compete with the Telcom giants that have already invested billions on the licences and are creating the 5G structure.

[@jurek-zz3un]

What is the best lora module ? What module have the best gain and tx power?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know. All LoRa chips are more or less the same and if properly implemented, should have no differences.

[@gkdotclass]

LoRa chips are the same but definitely big differences when implemented in modules ... look for ones with at least a TCXO

[@jurek-zz3un]

@@AndreasSpiess What is the best cheap 433MHz antenna ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I never tested 433 MHz antennas

[@sanjaynahata3374]

Please create the video of Connecting ESP8266 with STM32F103C8 Blue Pill Serial Communication (Not with AT Command)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Why do you want to connect the two microcontrollers?

[@sanjaynahata3374]

hi @@AndreasSpiess thanks for reply Blue pill will take care of processing and Esp8266(nodemcu) will take care of Wifi and mqtt --- even if connection is lost from router then also blue pill will be independent of wifi so will work

[@AndreasSpiess]

I am not sure you would need two independent microprocessors for that. A decent sketch can do these things on an ESP. This is why I prefer it over the bluepill for most applications.

[@MoritzvonSchweinitz]

Is there really no completely open standard or open source based RF technology for this use case? It just seems weird to trust single companies with something this important.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You can build your own „network with standard FSK chips.

[@mikebrown7366]

LoRa is only dependent upon getting the hardware. It is not dependent on the TTN backend since there are open source replacements for that functionality, such as Loriot. You can instantiate a complete end to end replacement for the features provided by TTN..

[@gkdotclass]

mike brown the LoRa modulation itself is patented and only available in Semtech own silicon or its IP licensees. Imagine if Lora did become the de facto IoT standard. Semtech could come along and said “thanks all for adopting our tech, now that you’re stuck we’ll just raise prices by 20%”... monopoly in the making.

[@mikebrown7366]

@@gkdotclass 20% wouldn't mean much, neither would 100%. Those chips are cheap. That said, semtech didn't invent the chirp spread spectrum (CSS) concept. They may have some trouble with prior art issues when it comes to legal enforcement of their patents. Their modulation scheme has already been completely reverse engineered as well. Since the FSK scheme used by Sigfox apparently offers (arguably) the same efficiency and range, I'm not too worried about semtech pricing themselves out of the market. I am concerned that Sigfox nay be proprietorizing the central end (gateway) technology. As for any security advantage that Lorawan offers, I don't think it would be too hard for Sigfox to match it. I guess what I'm saying is that there is plenty of room for both and neither brings something to the table that the other can't match. I chose LoRa because neither had coverage in my area and it was cheaper to implement a LoRa gateway. Plus, I like open source, Sigfox appears not to. Edit:. This sums it up better than I did. www.link-labs.com/blog/sigfox-vs-lora

[@MoritzvonSchweinitz]

A quick Wikipedia lookup seems to say that "Weightless" seems to be the most open source and top-to-bottom (hardware to software level) open standard based technology, but it's adaption seem to be very low, and there might be patent issues. I just really dislike putting all one's eggs into one basket (LoRa or SigFox it seems). I would very much prefer a WiFi-like arrangement, with an open standard and many different companies able and allowed to produce the silicon.

[@tomasallegrini2503]

i love yur videos, can you make a video explaining the requirements for an embebed system to run a mqtt broker? to use as a broker an esp8266 or esp32? and do you think you can achieve more transmitting power with the lora module if you make a gain stage with an opamp? (as lora uses low frequency compared to wifi i believe the opamp can handle it) Greetings from argentina!

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not see the need for embedded MQTT brokers. The run usually on a small server or in the cloud. And Opamps are used for low frequency and low power applications. LoRa Operates at nearly 1GHz, which is already Microwaves.

[@wm6h]

Doesn’t the Amateur Radio APRS system do much the same thing? Route small amount of sensor data globally over the internet. But I guess without security and business-level reliability.

[@mikebrown7366]

That's kind of an apples and oranges comparison. APRS is a fairly high power consumption system with a weak ability to use the internet for coverage. It's pretty much standard modem modulated signals and relatively high power radios. Sigfox and LoRa are designed for asynchronous, battery powered devices (nodes) that primarily send low bandwidth data infrequently, mostly in one direction. Even with very small antennas, they can reach over fairly long distances with signal to noise ratios that approach zero. As he showed, they are very tolerant of interfering signal whereas FM (VHF and UHF APRS) is not. LoRa is capable of decoding two signals on the same channel simultaneously. I suggest doing a little googling to help understand the benefits of Lora and sigfox as compared to traditional modulation techniques. Lora and sigfox are for many to one scenarios using extremely low power (milliwatts), with the goal of a ten year battery life. In Lora and sigfox, the nodes/sensors are cheap to implement. The gateways (receivers) are the painful part. Lora is much less painful to implement, but probably doesn't make as good use of the spectrum. Lora is wideband, sigfox is extremely narrow band, but the end result is quite comparable in terms of range. Lora achieves high success rates in one transmission, whereas sigfox sends everything multiple times. Lora is relatively immune to narow band interference and basically filters sigfox type signals right up front, sigfox is somewhat the opposite as it can easily ignore wideband interference, but would easily be blotted out by a narrow carrier interference, so it sends the data multiple times to avoid that.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I cannot add anything to mikes comment. Well done!

[@mikebrown7366]

@@AndreasSpiess Thanks. I guess I could add one more thing. He mentioned business level reliability, presumably for business usage; amateur radio doesn't allow for any business related use of the bands. There is a very similar, business oriented system called GPRS.

[@mschorer]

Interessant wäre auch ein Vergleich von NBIoT und LoraWAN

[@AndreasSpiess]

Kann es sein dass du meine Videos nicht bis zu Ende schaust :-( ?

[@mschorer]

Andreas Spiess deshalb ja! Ich fände den Vergleich interessant! Ich habe da ein interessantes Dokument von Vodafone das alles Technologien vergleicht und NBIoT präferiert (no BIAS 😂 of course 😉)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Wie versprochen werde ich ihn machen, sobald ich ein Modul und eine SIM Karte kriege...

[@gkdotclass]

I don’t understand the summary conclusion, why is TTN “clearly the right choice” for makers? “ Surely the choice of Sigfox, private LoRaWAN, public TTN or indeed NB-IoT very much depends on the project you’re doing, existing coverage and ease+cost of putting up and a managing additional gateways needed for your project - even for makers. Actually a good choice is to use dual mode modules (eg Murata type ABZ) which can do both LoRa and a Sigfox and just deploy the best option for each case.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Because you have coverage everywhere and it is free of charge. As a Maker, a service agreement usually is not so important. And we learn something by building our own devices ;-) Enough arguments?

[@gkdotclass]

Andreas Spiess I definitely do not have coverage everywhere on TTN - unless I buy my own gateways, more expensive than a Sigfox subscription - and still build my own devices either on TTN or Sigfox, so sorry the arguments don’t make sense to me. Maybe there is some misunderstanding? You can buy for example $2 Wisol modules and build Sigfox devices just as you can with LoRa.

[@Stimpofff]

Sigfox provides service for makers for 1usd per year per device... one year free connectivity is usually included with dev boards

[@azkoienalex2763]

Can yo make a video about NB IoT technology? Regards! Best wishes!

[@AndreasSpiess]

So far I do not have this technology working :-(

[@eugy2008]

It's a shame that there is a message limit. With Cat-M1 and NB1, Sigfox will probably disappear and LORA will be limited.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Unfortunately I do not see a lot of projects with Cat-M1 and NB1...

[@raspberrypicodeiteatit6903]

hi, before i post my question i like to thank you for your videos about lora, they was so helpful. they gave me a good idea and a good knowledge about this tech. i'm in my way to buy various lora product but i come cross two type of lora gateway LG01-P and LG01-N and i didn't understand the difference between those 2 version. they said LG01-N which is the V2 of lora gateway use the linux to control it but the LG01-P version (V1) uses OpenWrt. ok, they are 2 difference OS (even the OpenWrt is based on linux, and openWrt is for routers) they said the V2 (LG01-N) uses the Linux to directly control the sx1276/sx1278 LoRa module which increase the communication efficiency and simplify the software design. but HOW?!!! and does that mean i can control the sx1276/sx1278 using the OpenWrt. so which one is suitable or better. for someone want to start with lora and want to build a good skills to use lora in his projects, what would you advice me to buy. and please can you tell me the difference between using V1 and V2. thank you.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know these products. Be aware that 1 channel gateways use the SX1276 and 8 channel gateways use SX1301 chips. Nand maybe you watch my LoRa videos.

[@raspberrypicodeiteatit6903]

@@AndreasSpiess i know it's a 1 channel gateway and it's enough for me for testing and stuff like that. and after along research and some help i find out the difference, the LG01-P has atmega328p MCU but the LG01-N doesn't and it's directly controlling the SX1276 and i guess that mean no GPIO sensors for this N version but the packet loss is so low 1% when the P version has a 60% packet loss. i found a compare list in www.dragino.com/products/lora.html you can check the documentation section of LG01-P or N.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I made my single channel gateways with an ESP8266.

[@raspberrypicodeiteatit6903]

@@AndreasSpiess yeap i watched that video, good job. but for someone like me, first time working with lora i do like to start with kit that includes everything i need i guess. learn about the basics and then try to build my own nodes and gateways. thank you for your replay.

[@dd0356]

Today i learned about a new technology which doesn't exist in my country. but it is still useful for me, to impress my office colleagues :D but i still need to learn about the art of subtle bragging, it often goes the other way for me. in a recent "physical" meeting, i told them, based on my recent knowledge acquired (i like that word acquire! ) from people on the other side of the youtube, but it did not go very well. thinking that i would impress others, i made a statement that most technologies develop in some background, which is much more than just mathematical equations. these backgrounds are not immediately clear but its impact definitely is. i even gave them an example, that idea of marriage is different, and any "human" policy must take that fact into account. The ladies (about 10 of them out of total 20 people ) made a very strong opposition to my statement. I realised my mistake, closed my mind and opened my ears. I overheard one, how she strongly objected to her husband's decision to pick a name for their child. and how dedicated husbands are around the world... so i took help from youtube on how to deal with such situations. it gave me the swiss secret: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKHQY4Khicehlbs But i found that they also plan everything out, but maybe it doesn't work like they planned and we have to figure it out and solve it. and they are also completely independent, with the help of their counterparts and i don't see any ironic situation there. To help the situation, i subscribed to a popular man on youtube here, kzbin.info/www/bejne/emWkd2ydhdWBepI but i think i can not reach his level (he is an engineer from a top institution, but later became a pilot and even a bodybuilder! ) so i have to explore deep inside my mind kzbin.info/www/bejne/epywg5yfi695jck (people in this country, who lived in the past were obsessed with mind for some reason) but it is a bit too much for my convoluted mind. maybe i've to resort to banggod for physical sensory gratification...and probably wait for the 5G IoT video :D

[@AndreasSpiess]

People sometimes behave differently in the open than in an intimate situation. So it is not easy to find out what they really think. BTW. It is interesting how many channels exist with Indian wisdom. And the number of views show they are watched.

[@dd0356]

i don't know much, but i think, recent interest in the older wisdom is being studied probably because of IoT and increase in computing power of smaller devices. It is not really intelligent, just that it does what it does very fast (still dependent on human input for course correction, to begin with) and due to miniaturization a lot can be done at a very small place and due to mass manufacturing a lot of such things can be created for cheap (in china!!). I think they are looking for ideas from different places and therefore interest in these topics from older thinking. But the irony of life is that we were not taught a single bit of that in our schools!!! in my grandfather's generation, that was the "knowledge" one had to learn. in my father's generation, it was decided that these things are not modern, and kind of retrograde and counter-productive. Way to go was by creating huge factories which would produce goods for nation. To create "human" resource, they created system of "mass-education" it is still there, and one result of that is that now no one talks to the other. To get "higher" education, they relocate to the west, kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnm8hKlrZ7F9htE now it has changed to consumer, not for the nation. my 2.5 year old nephew learns from mobile phone cartoons. But our time is cyclical and not linear. it repeats. so we leave that to time. And by the way, wisdom of my generation is this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKaYXpSBm8SEp6M And back to the swami video, i think he his mba and engineer. got fed up and became a sanyasi. guru is higher level of achievement. he belongs to an organisation/institution. it was started by students of this guru: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakrishna His student en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Vivekananda was very popular and he could speak very eloquently in the west (during colonial times). But the main content on which he is speaking is quite old (before historians were born). There are several of them, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishads but 108 books are discussed at many places. swami talks about 10 of them. It is called Vedanta, summary of veda (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas ) Veda comes from root Vid=knowledge in sanskrit language. It is just too much for a single person. and it was probably composed long back (before alexander and many other people from history) They talk about lots of philosophy. And germans have already studied them but we don't believe them ;-) Numbers are not on their side, at least on youtube. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5TXi5h_rduUmZY I will tell you the summary in one sentence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tat_Tvam_Asi it says human is the same as anything else in the world. there is god everywhere, including human body and human body is composed of 5 elements, earth, fire, sky, (allayurveda.com/blog/we-are-all-made-of-these-five-elements/ ) they even had medical theories (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda ) house building theories ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vastu_shastra ) I do not know much because i did not learn it. what i know is because people still talk about them. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6DOaaSFbpKordU this is one old video from youtube, when people listened to what others had to say. And it is not that these theories can't be changed. but the traditional system was to first go to forest, think about these, test these and then debate throughout the country. only after most accept one's theory, one is considered a "guru" And probably the most influential guru was en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankaracharya who probably lived about 1200 years ago (before the invaders came). he has one interesting story. at 32 years of age he won over most of the debates. last debate he had was with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%E1%B9%87%E1%B8%8Dana_Mi%C5%9Bra he won the debate. but wife of his opponent told shankaracharya that he has to debate with her also only then his theories will be declared as the final. she debated on topics he was not familiar with, that is of a family man. he lost the debate!! his theories are still followed. more traditional gurus, kzbin.info/www/bejne/iojSXoSQrq14arc are still following his methods. but that may not be considered philosophy but religion, in western style. and by the way, in traditional theory, one's life is divided into 4 parts, for 1st 25 years one has to gain knowledge being a bachelor next 25 years as a family man (and this is one of the most important because other parts depend on this for support), next he as to gain enlightenment wandering in forest supported by families for food and all. and after 75 years of age, one is just does his action without getting attached to it. But a few years back, this man had all the wisdom kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmmpZpewbdCpZ9k he sings, i drink 4 bottles vodka, everyday. that is my action and i am very happy! In fact, that is one philosophy people thought about long back. philosophy says believe only what sense organs tell. take loan, enjoy life and don't pay it back. science is has extended sense organs by inventing special tools but market economy takes it to next level, provided we know mathematics...i am quite slow in computation, i belong to beta male category. so i have to learn other philosophy and skills, to survive and live in a fantasy world for pleasure, kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6i3emCQjNSIeJY ;-)

[@dd0356]

and by the way, i can't post any off-topic comment on youtube. it is probably marked as spam!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Concerning the videos on T-series: There were always in history people who did not think too much and just lived... But it is interesting how old wisdom is blended with KZbinin your country. And the building in the Bond film, in reality, is a restaurant. Also here, fiction and reality are not exactly the same. Yes, your comments often first appear in my spam folder. But I free them from there ;-)

[@dd0356]

spam folder situation is good, the comment avoids the unintended audience (in a spam folder ) clearly google knows more about me than i know about myself kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4OqpYqwgrSMjKs:) but i am a common man so it doesn't matter much! and since there was no tech video from swiss alps this week, i've to go to fantasy land, kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJCxg2mvh6igesU but may be it is a bit too much even for my day dream so probably this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmPTooiBqbZglZo is better for that hill-top restaurant:) and in a fake red cross helicopter! Possibly youtube recommends that due recent tensions in the air...kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z36TpWBnrpKjiZo and regarding older wisdom, i think, at our place the older wisdom did not "evolve" much unlike the western wisdom. but i think, what we really lack are lots of people working towards common goal achieving desired results. while history they teach in schools follows this pattern, kzbin.info/www/bejne/npq2d6uBgrSSaLM most of the common people, used to follow kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZjJopKXd6t9mtk this system until very recently. now the new religion is economics using technology (with lots of mathematics knowledge and little human emotions; but i think human emotions are still there, even if they teach how to get rid of them in behavioral training. it just changes forms to what the teacher doesn't know ) and by the way, we learn about our system through the british and german books! and some times the meaning gets lost in translation, kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5Scf5yEZs6ShJo !! and since we can not think that much, we do what we want to do and from our tradition, create stories out of the situation for our bosses to ponder over. and who those do not consume liquid chemicals, get lost in fantasy world... kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJ2lhoOqgK6iftE

[@stevec5000]

So what is this used for?

[@AndreasSpiess]

To connect remote sensors

[@bdr420i]

why LoraWAN library is bigger?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Because it is more complex and Sigfox has some firmware on the chip.

[@_Epictetus_]

First time I have ever seen someone blur their shoes out lol

[@AndreasSpiess]

It was a test for the KZbin function. And I thought, these shoes are not too important for the video ;-)

[@_Epictetus_]

@@AndreasSpiessthat makes senses, i thought it was funny.

[@hvanmegen]

OH ANDREAS... YOU'RE NOT WEARING CROCS, ARE YOU?!?!?? :)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Of course, I wear them. I am not Karl Lagerfeld ;-)

[@AndreasDelleske]

Andreas Spiess you are ahead of next Lagerfeld I‘m sure, Did you blur them?

[@TheBodgybrothers]

155dB is the link budget. Not 155dBm. dBm is absolute power. 10dBm + 10dBm = 13dBm. 10dBm + 10dB = 20dBm.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right!

[@MirkWoot]

wow I feel behind, I didn't know of this.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I hope you know now a little more...

[@georgenehme6552]

compare Mioty (& BehrTech) with LoRa

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not see that Mioty has gained a lot of traction. It seems to be quite closed source (I did not see a price for a gateway, for example). I assume it will be very hard to compete against the LoRaWAN alliance which is well established. But I might be wrong and you have more info.

[@jamesbutler5570]

Das mit Sigfox erledigt sich jetzt wohl ...

[@AndreasSpiess]

Wieso meinst du?

[@ramanan4589]

Make a tutorial on Arduino and lora walkie talkie

[@AndreasSpiess]

Data rates of LoRa is too low for voice.

[@ramanan4589]

@@AndreasSpiess is that possible to make a walkie talkie with a lora and Arduino

[@DougHanchard]

If Meg Ryan was the prize, I wouldn't be testing an arduino sigfox board :-)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Tastes are different...

[@DougHanchard]

@@AndreasSpiess LOL

[@Numian]

It seems like here in Slovakia they (Simplecell) are selling Sigfox connectivity to bussineses only and no to individial customers. Shame...

[@AndreasSpiess]

So you only have one alternative :-(

[@Numian]

@@AndreasSpiess Open business? :-D

[@gildasseimbille6045]

Hi Numian, Dev-kits use to come with one year Sigfox connectivity, you can activate them via buy.sigfox.com/activate Feel free to ask SimpleCell SK free tokens if you need ([e-mail]), they should be keen and responsive ;)

[@boblewis5558]

Just two words regarding the amber pointing finger ... DEC Direct! Richtig? Tschüß.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not think so. It was used by my wife as a teacher.

[@kwazar6725]

Really interesting video. Ideal for sunday morning with coffee. Ttn is not Tings btw. Soon our sensors can talk nationwide. Gps for my kids?

[@nick5625]

0:00 WHAT ARE THOOOOSEE ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

???

[@isidoromaich7226]

People call it "crocs"

[@AndreasSpiess]

They are very comfortable. I am a simple engineer, not Karl Lagerfeld ;-)

[@oz4me274]

Don't want to rely on any cloud provider. Reliability and security problems.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Because of specialization modern lifestyle has lots of dependencies.

[@oz4me274]

@@AndreasSpiess I am one of those poor unfortunates without wire or fibre internet. I only can use wireless in an area where it is bad and unreliable. I will have to maintain my own network for home automation using retrofit radio switches. Of course, wiring home automation into a new house would be easy.

[@0isay]

Here's the guy with the Swiss accent, odrr?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Yes!

[@gr7480]

TTN = DIY SIGFOX = €€€

[@gkdotclass]

Well my bank account tells me I spend €€€ on LoRa too ... no free lunch

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not think one Sigfox node is very expensive. More € than €€€ ;-)

[@gr7480]

@@gkdotclass me parece a mi que no se puede comparar los precios. Tanto en los gateway cómo en los nodos. Aparte que lorawan con ttn es GRATUITO . En cambio SIGFOX... Y si no te llega para comer dímelo y te invito a un Mac do 😉

[@tenminutetokyo2643]

DOOD!

[@AndreasSpiess]

:-)

[@meinsda5983]

secound

[@AgentOffice]

Feet look censored

[@AndreasSpiess]

???

[@AgentOffice]

@@AndreasSpiess i hope you show feet someday, nothing to be ashamed of

[@korma9732]

Annoying tone on left channel

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are the first reporting this issue after years. Thank you.

[@laurencecope7083]

Sigfox is dead in the UK.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the info. No surprise for me :-(

[@laurencecope7083]

​@AndreasSpiess I was a sigfox host, they owed me 2 years rent then shut down. I moved house 2 years ago, the disconnected mast is still there.