28. Chernobyl Trip Report by Jake Hecla

[@mitocw]

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[@PU-239]

10:11 I will report this insane error right here for you; Show me a pump that takes 40 MW to run.. It will pump your world around. A TsVN-8 (ЦВН-8) Main Circulation Pump takes 5600 kW or 5.6 MW. The fact that none of the students are asking the instructor about this is ... scary I think is the right word.

[@JP-fn5xt]

The light water system failed obviously. Sufficient backup was not designed. All could be corrected but newer systems are better anyway. The problem being no clean up.

[@JP-fn5xt]

Correction.... Not no clean up, a very long process. Trying to come up with a better plan but it all includes robotic work.

[@gigabrother458]

I have a slight tingling between my toes.

[@jakehecla8904]

Hi All- Thanks for watching. As it turns out, I was quite ill when I gave this presentation, and I would appreciate people's understanding in any errors I may have made. I've learned a lot since I gave this lecture, though I feel it generally presents the topic accurately. Please feel free to post any corrections you may see in the comments or on the form, and I will seek to remedy them.

[@zloyfet]

Have you visited chernobyl since then?

[@rebekah7635]

This was awesome. Thank you!

[@MrWeezy312]

It was a good presentation especially for being sick

[@groussac]

Thanks Jake. Not to pump up your ego, but you've got the heart of a teacher. Natural born. It is what it is. Your ideas are clearly organized and supported by detail--but not overwhelmed by detail. Best wishes for your future. BTW, if you reach a point in your life where you feel you need to reboot yourself, recommend working with horses for a while. They have a way of teaching you what is and what isn't. Horse sense. Harness horses. Unlike thoroughbreds, you can take them out on the track yourself.

[@Djdjyou9326]

Ill, huh? After coming from Chernobyl. Not great, not terrible.

[@jakehecla8904]

I'd like to add that I strongly recommend Adam Higginbotham's book Midnight in Chernobyl, which I found well-written, detailed and generally accurate from a technical standpoint. Additionally, Svetlana Alexeevich's Voices from Chernobyl is absolutely required reading for the topic.

[@KingLich451]

Thanks!

[@zulubeatz1]

I will look for this book thank you

[@Sneddz1]

Its a fascinating read, I am due to read it again soon.

[@EstebanBrenesPinto]

Glad to see you recommended Voices from Chernobyl. It really changed my understanding of the event at more human level.

[@JC-lu4se]

Chernobyl: The History of a Nuclear Catastrophe by Serhii Plokhy was a fantastic read. Thanks for the lecture.

[@obscurity3027]

Jake has heard that “radiation poisoning” joke about EIGHT times, and he is SO done with it.

[@bsexton]

Remember when a simple cold was harmless and funny. Much better times…

[@Studio54.4]

It's still funny!

[@angelaf5040]

Awesome presentation!! I learned more about the site in this presentation than all the "documentary" videos over many many years!!! Thanks!

[@julkiewitz]

A major construction project a year AHEAD of schedule? My goodness, that radiation really has some weird effects on life.

[@jenmary99]

That was fascinating! Thank you for the peek behind the scenes, what a unique experience you had.

[@onderozenc4470]

I was working in Byelorussia in 1991, 600 kilometers from Chernobil and I was still measuring around 100 microSv./hour background radiation intensity which was something like 12 times higher than the max. allowed bench mark.

[@denniskondratiuk4859]

Where exactly you measured 100 microSv/h? I work there now and this is kind of high level even for the most contaminated areas there.

[@onderozenc4470]

@@denniskondratiuk4859 in Slonim / Byelorussia, social houses work site but in January 1992.

[@HarshL]

Why am I watching an MIT lecture on a topic I only know the basics of? Idk but it was actually so freaking interesting

[@gor.]

praise youtube algorithms

[@michaelhumberstone4532]

I dig holes for a living. I now understand the basic principles of the by-product Xe 135 in Nuclear Fission within the Thermic Distillation process. My issues with starting a Honda generator in winter, really seem small potatoes.

[@HarshL]

@@michaelhumberstone4532 LOL I feel that ahah, crazy how much there is to learn

[@Bm-ct8xt]

You’re telling me this kid is a senior in college? He already sounds like a tenured professor giving a presentation. You can just tell he’s on a path for academia

[@frankchris07]

Passion

[@baoboumusic]

This is crazy and awesome and fascinating and terrifying all at the same time. 35:11 "That's generally quite bad" - understatement of the year.

[@y0rema]

Nice to see a father-son lecturing team!

[@michaelturner6358]

Outstanding presentation! Thank you!

[@alexmol]

Your presentation was nothing short of great, thank you.

[@dale116dot7]

To me the RBMK reactor looks to be more related to Hanford B (a plutonium production reactor for weapons) than a normal power reactor. It almost looks like the process tube/graphite arrangements the B reactor but just flipped on its side. From what I recall, coolant flow through the Hanford reactor was really high, meant to keep it cool, not meant to make steam.

[@eckligt]

They're also quite similar to the CANDU design, which has horizontal channels for the fuel, and these channels are individually pressurized, and the coolant and moderator are separate. The difference, though, is that while the moderator of the RBMK is solid graphite, the moderator of CANDU is heavy water, which is a good backup heatsink should the coolant (normal water in both designs) fail, and it doesn't tend to sustain damage or burn.

[@ayushigendah5272]

Watching this instead of reading my lecture notes 🥺 I love this presentation so much Watching this for the 3rd times after 2 years

[@CrazyMutherTrucker]

Thank you Jake. Awesome walk thru....hope you're doing well

[@standardmcdefault530]

As a Slav I am proud that they did a good job finishing giant protective construction year ahead of scedule. And they did that for a giant nuclear reactor that they put online ahead of scedule and then it went kaboomski.

[@pizzagogo6151]

Excellent and informative thanks so much for posting this!

[@bowlingfanatikzzz]

Very helpful to future students! Great work! Thank you!

[@neilbrucker5985]

So excited that I found these open courses because I do not have MIT money but I can afford wifi. Thank you so much for giving us the chance to continue to educate ourselves PS. The Chernobyl series on HBO is one of my fav shows ever, even my friends from the Ukraine said it was extremely accurate glimps of the lives of the ppl at the time but the accents drove me crazy but i get why they did it.

[@richardtaylor2449]

Thank you Jake and Professor Short 👍👍😨😨

[@Grak70]

Imagine getting accepted to an MIT nuclear engineering program and then seriously asking a lecturer if Chernobyl is haunted lol

[@JaredKlatt]

I couldn’t believe it when she asked that but then again I don’t know what I was thinking. Even smart or driven people have quirks.

[@jerry50bmg65]

Captivating! Thanks for sharing our experience.

[@Swedediesel]

The reason there´s instruments missing in the control room is from what i´ve read or maby heard in a documentary is that they were re-used for the operation of the remaining reactors when their equipment broke down.

[@ozymet]

Last question was: "do you think it's haunted"? It's a bit sad and disappointing.

[@chico.gaspar]

That actually tilted me! After such presentation to hear that!!!

[@porfin666]

@@chico.gaspar And it's not like the audience are high school kids...

[@2hedz77]

Haha...yeah, well I think it shows the close relationship MIT lecturers have with their students. Profs seem laid back yet super smart and likely very demanding when it comes to exam time. I could never imagine asking that in my grad classes...mainly because my prof was a ... I think it's great that these kids ask these silly questions.

[@robertallen7186]

Outstanding presentation, Jake. Thank you............... Bob, Grand Rapids Michigan

[@QuakePhil]

0:55 probably the last few months this joke was still possible...

[@prismpyre7653]

my understanding is the 'safe' containment has barely been able to reach 20psi pressure when it's supposed to operate at 100..... meanwhile the corium is turning to dust...

[@vonpickles3622]

Nice job, Jake! Well done presentation.

[@TheIWalker]

Unit two was actually shut down in 1991 (not in 2000) because of fire accident. Unit three was shut down in 2000.

[@sijonda]

I wonder how things are going since the arch was put in place. I heard since the water leaking into the facility from rain is now blocked, radiation has started to rise on it's own.

[@Replika2000]

This is the guy that you can see in some Bionerd23 videos going around some nuclear "waste" materials :-)

[@txm100]

Ha! What a small world

[@cymbala6208]

​@@txm100 the "interested in nuclear physics/radiation stuff - people" is a small world... 😉

[@danielwolf2163]

No! The rods being dropped back into the reactor is what cause the steam explosion and the rods were bent could go any further in the rector because they became bent because of the steam explosion.

[@briansawicki2153]

Jake, BWXT Evansville Indiana makes Nuclear Core Pressure Vessels.

[@dannydavis1659]

This is absolutely fantastic

[@benartee9493]

Great presentation. Very interesting

[@austinkopp9811]

"I am a little sick, so I'm probably gonna start coughing..." *Take him to the infirmary*

[@MakerInMotion]

22:22 Iris has a YT channel of her own bionerd23 and has some great videos from Chernobyl.

[@Just.A.T-Rex]

He’s in a few

[@alrun1836]

Parts got pulled from the control room for parts more than likely.

[@NickHunter]

Far more likely stolen or sold as souvenirs

[@LitchKB]

48:55 600uSv. That's about a third of the average dosage of a flight attendant (p.a.) from cosmic radiation during flight.

[@colinpitrat8639]

You mean on a single flight (if so how long)? Over a year? Over their life? Without duration this doesn't mean much. But yeah, that's relatively low. In France, maximal yearly dose is set at 1mS and is considered a very safe limit. So he did get more than half a French maximum yearly dose.

[@JaredKlatt]

I believe the average dose from NY to LA is only 30-50uSv.

[@philipstevenson5166]

excellent explanation

[@runcycleskixc]

I bet the missing channels were not sharpied out, they were rather penciled out. The meat-shield 2pi scanner was a great idea!

[@NoGoodHandlesComingToMind]

41:29: poor beagle. Otherwise thanks for uploading. This was a great presentation.

[@douro20]

41:48 how about Where's Vladislav? (Vladislav is the closest Slavic equivalent I could find to Wally).

[@romanpodgornov]

I would prefer Valera in this case 😁

[@hingeslevers]

Vladi 😄

[@42HUE]

Best talk on Chernobyl I've ever listened to. Thank you.

[@server1ok]

They used "Bio Robots". A brilliant description

[@antimaxik]

This is how the liquidators ironically called that brabe people. So the speaker is actually quoting them

[@elabijt1715]

I quote: "it is extremely harsh to get radio-active contamination of". True, think of the avogrado number.

[@jasonstinson1767]

What are Turbo Generators? I'm only familiar with Turbine Generators.

[@scowell]

I'd make sure to see the giant radar near there too. BioNerd's videos are epic in this area... she digs up pieces of core for fun... insane.

[@ant4812]

Cool lecture. I hope it was just a cough and he's OK.

[@electronicjo1]

Is it possible the water has already killed them?

[@rmsalkin]

rubber 'ducky' suit is my go-to safe word, from now on.

[@elih9700]

Ty Jake.

[@maksymk]

It is not correct that helicopter felt into the reactor. What has happened is after the liquidation was finished, a helicopter did fall but nearby the building, something like 10m away from the building. There is a video footage of that in youtube, how it hits a rope from a crane.

[@maksymk]

Here it is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGGvg5SBaNx7naM

[@Just.A.T-Rex]

@@maksymkdid you listen to the narration and see the footage? It does in fact fall on top of the reactor building after hitting a CHAIN.

[@bobs6129]

Thank you

[@TheMadScientistOfLuton]

Interestingly the new safe confinement arch is only 3 meters taller than the excape snowslope in Milton Keynes, if any brits want an idea of the scale of the NSC without going all the way to bloody Chernobyl

[@hughanthony2001]

I know which I'd rather visit. :p

[@steve1978ger]

It's probably a different situation now, but several of my coworkers went to Belarus in the mid to late 2010s, and had not problems getting business visa

[@dylanlahman5967]

A lot of the structures at the plant are corroded heavily - could this be caused by the radiation, or normal stuff like humidity?

[@KB4QAA]

Just normal corrosion. It's been 35 years since the plant was normally kept up.

[@dylanlahman5967]

@@KB4QAA Awesome. Thank you for the reply.

[@touchanddie]

it’s official- the ONE thing construction workers do ahead of schedule - put sarcophagus on top of reactor 4 under the careful hand of scientists watching them at every corner) Great presentation)

[@darrengurney9265]

Dessel and turbans?

[@marialiyubman]

If you’re wondering why the equipment was removed, there are some interesting kgb coverup theories about Chernobyl (douga/soviet woodpecker).

[@sultanofsick]

I would love to go on this visit/tour.

[@Convexhull210]

I want to go but man I would be nervous about the radiation.

[@VoltageLP]

It's actually less than 100 kilometers from Kyiv (about 60 miles)

[@bryanaustin8362]

Well spoken, for a young kid especially!

[@henrimessinghausen5185]

The reason for this test was a NATO-excersize called Able Archer in 1983: Sovjet thought of the risk of a conventional attack by NATO-forces with the risk of power being cut to nuclear sites in the turmoil of war. Newly build reactors had to prove that they could withstand a powerautage. Still is unclear to me why this was ot nessecary for the older RBMK's and just for newly build ones...or that they just started with the newly build ones and the rest should follow later.

[@boese-i5g]

Don't try to think of the Soviet Union as a reasonable or cautious state. It wasnt. They were more concerned about their reputation, than safety.

[@henrimessinghausen5185]

@@boese-i5g You do not need to tell me of the bad sides of the so-called communist countries of the former East-block countries just because I pointed out a little, often overlooked, aspect of the Chernobyl disaster. The Sovjet Union was a bad thing for the common people... It was a abuse of powergrabbing small elite for which the commen people paid. For which the truth paid. For which the environment and nature paid. The capitalist West is bad for common people too. where the Sovjets had the need to be perceived as strong the West had the need to be perceived as free. And the common people again pay for it. Nature pays for it. In both systems only the power- and moneyhungry elite profit from a sick and corrupt system.

[@boese-i5g]

@@henrimessinghausen5185 So you say the Soviet Union and the west is basically the same, and you dont have to be told about the "bad sides" of the Soviet Union.

[@henrimessinghausen5185]

@@boese-i5g I said both are bad for the common people in different ways...an dyes I do not need to be told of the bad sides of the former Sovjet Union...unless I am told about the bad sides of the West as well.

[@charliefoxtrot5001]

Able Archer in 1983 was a close call too!

[@rwood1995]

0:39 so you going to tell me these guys are NOT related????

[@owendavies4613]

I have had cancer and have just had an operation for kidney cancer in right side and also have cancer in my left one. I think many people in Europe have and are paying a high price for what happened here and I hope people will learn. Thank you for this lecture very full and good.

[@OXYPLIK]

80 km from Kyiv , north.

[@AdurianJ]

"Wait isn't that a warzone" has different conotations in 2022 8 months after the Battle of Chernobyl !

[@interstellarphred]

Turban? turBINE! I have yet to be aware of any cost analysis of decommissioning, decontamination, and remediation vs. the value of the power generated over a reactor's functional life. How much is externalized, or differed to some uncertain future?

[@Amethyst_Friend]

Question: why is graffiti a problem if no-one lives there?

[@Just.A.T-Rex]

It’s not the painting it’s the fact tons of people are going no properly suited up in PPE exposing themselves to some of the worse hotspots for just spraying paint

[@Jagd204]

31:54 Anyone found that clip?

[@Just.A.T-Rex]

He’s referring to bionerds video kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJfLlWmqmbd2b6Msi=DZ9WJG-3yiZA2sWU

[@ThisVideoAnnoyedMe]

Needs a follow up trip for comparison of how it's doing nowadays given the Russian invasion.

[@cjansenATL]

Great info. Thank you. Wasn't there a Chernobyl equipment graveyard? Helicopters... Earth movers... etc.

[@Manuel-j3q]

I cant find any links to "accident in which coal power plant went offline", despite using both russian and ukranian for search. So, any links to it?

[@kaaarol123]

Which buildings had been taken apart? ;) Are you sure? ;)

[@Ronilac]

Chernobyl - Kiev: 100 km in straight line, 134 km road distance... Helicopter crashed during the sarcophagus building, not throwing the bags into the core.

[@n__neen]

1:50 "it's not an active war zone"

[@RR-zd5yt]

:(

[@1985watanabe]

33:44 - "Belarus is Europe's last dictatorship" - I wish that was true. Unfortunately we have one more bigger and much more 'active' dictator that has influenced Ukraine just recently.

[@riso9059]

Who

[@daniellassander]

I am not at all surprised that the teachers didnt want to show you a lot of things, what they are actually showing you are the things that actually worked while they ignore the glaring holes in the things that didnt work.

[@kenpaisner324]

This has to be one of the biggest f*ck ups in human history.

[@JaredKlatt]

Not even close. I probably wouldn’t even put it in the top 10. That’s just me though.

[@CrimLawGeek]

His GPA is 3.6

[@Adrian2140]

not great not terrible

[@jenmary99]

@@Adrian2140 thanks for the coffee on my laptop screen!

[@2hedz77]

I don’t get it

[@KensCounselingCouch]

@@2hedz77 It's a joke based off this clip from the HBO series *Chernobyl* : kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5iYeYKkppytepI

[@nerysghemor5781]

You're definitely not kidding about Belarus. I know someone who went there as part of an official educational trip (not sure exactly when...had to have been at least 20 years ago), and he described being followed around by "KGB" minders just like you read about in books about the USSR, or like you hear about from the few people stupid enough to go to North Korea. Creepy stuff.

[@justjoe7313]

"I'm caughing, it's just a cold" is a LOL material in 2022 :D We (or at least some of us) are so sensitized by all the Covid19 measures and whatnots that the reaction to caugh in public is sometimes less then cool :) Thank you very much for another great lecture, you guys are golden!!!

[@DeFlanko]

The time frame fits (roughly) too

[@Just.A.T-Rex]

Right? And colds are contagious

[@Bollibompa]

Copyright, source unknown on the pictures. Uhm, ok? Jake Hecla took the pictures...

[@marigam]

My brother worked with scrap metal from Chernobyl. Not on purpose, of course. What assholes! Yep, his health was shit for his age because of it. He didn’t die from it, he died from a stabbing but still. So horrible that this happens to this day.

[@pandakso3365]

"It's not radiation poisoning." That's because it was COVID.

[@Just.A.T-Rex]

Timeline doesn’t add up though

[@midair2376]

WTF is a kilometer? Thanks for using metrics.

[@itsianwood]

I like this guy! Good speaker, despite the cold. The way he dealt with the idiotic 'Do you think it's haunted?' question was admirable.

[@anthonyferrari711]

Why is that idiotic? That girl clearly had a tone of joking inquiry when she said that. She may have been trying to be cute or funny. Also, this lecture took place in mid November, not long after Halloween - haunted content was probably on everyone’s minds. That said, “haunted” could mean many types of things. It doesn’t necessarily mean “oh there’s ghosts flying around!” There are absolutely haunted places in the world where you would be scared shitless to spend a night alone. And places can carry a somber feel to them, if they are the locations of tragic events. As Jake did delve further into. A general mood of a place can very much count as a location being “haunted.” Again, I’m not making any claims about what is ontologically real or not. But regardless of that, being a brilliant nuclear physicist does not mean you definitively know every single thing about all types of phenomena that exist or are experienced in the world. And such experiences can be “haunting” psychological experiences without requiring actual ghosts to be involved. Furthermore, people believing in ghosts is not that absurd of an idea. I myself don’t have much of an opinion, but certainly wouldn’t pretend as if the idea or questioning of it is “idiotic.” Yet billions of people believe in gods they’ve never seen? GTFO.

[@faisaladnan385]

GREAT!

[@lucasfragoso7634]

On the looting and break-ins happening in the Zone yes it absolutely happenes ffs you can watch videos of people doing it. These people are usually referred to as STALKERS probably in reference to the game series. Some are malicious and loot and vandalize others steal wood from the forests and some just go there to explore the area with absolute freedom. Either way it's hard to enforce due mostly to the zones size and the large amount of forest area to take cover in. But in my opinion it seems more of a race to see who gets the Darwin award first lol sine some of these people CAMP in houses and apartments in the zone

[@antimaxik]

Term "Stalker" was way before the games and Chernobyl. You can look and see there are atleast 2 movies made on this matter. Basicaly it was inspired by the books of Strugatsky brothers. The Stalker games though also was some kind of mix of Chernobyl events and the fantasy from the books

[@anthonyferrari711]

More so in reference to the Tarkovsky film Stalker from 1979. Tarkovsky is arguably the most famous and impactful Russian director of all time. Wouldn’t be that shocking for people in Ukraine to know the film. But sure, the game series plays off of all of that and certainly has some role in how the term is used today.

[@christiller3257]

@25:10 When the educational KZbin video you're watching bashes educational KZbin videos...

[@colinpitrat8639]

Well it's disappointing to go to the other side of the planet to watch stuff you can watch at home.

[@Pismensky]

A good moment/reason to ask ourselves a question like "If there was no cold war would the USA and USSR have to develop nuclear weapons and, as a side effect, build nuclear power stations?". Please remember, we use the electricity today and have to leave highly radioactive waste materials buried in the ground for hundreds of thousand years even without any disasters, it's a "normal" nuclear fuel cycle. Would it have made any sense if there was no cold war? Is there any guarantee some guy won't reach to those sites in 200 or 300 years to spay the stuff over some city trying to get more subscribers/likes/justbecause? I'm not really a green-minded guy, just an engineer with some common sense. MIT, many thanks for the video.

[@thitchin]

I'd like to hear Jake's thoughts on Fukushima. Is the Pacific Ocean truly dead and/or dying from 10 years of fallout? Is Dana Durnfurd correct in his KZbin disclosures? Is Japan sending highly radioactive rice, saki, tuna and other foodstuffs to markets around the world? I don't think Earth has much of a future. I was in Kiev in Spring of 1989. Today I feel like I'm fighting for every breath and the docs haven't been able to help. Who knows... ✌️

[@dvergar1]

If you watch the end of this one (the entire video is worth watching), maybe around 46 minutes he talks about the Cesium releases from Fukushima and why we need not be worried about it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5vWpWedarB5hJI

[@2hedz77]

Japan is not the (ex) Soviet Union. The amount released is much too low...even to affect local fish.

[@thitchin]

@@2hedz77 I don't trust Japan. They've been here before, having to balance the needs of a multi $B global sushi market with the health needs of it's Citizens and those who buy/consume the product. I think it was in the late '40s and mid '50s that millions of pounds of tuna were found to be radioactive and had to be disposed of and kept from the market. Afterall, we only JUST learned of a few hundred barrels of DDT dumped off the California / Catalina Coast. There is SO much the nuclear cartel will never disclose about Chernobyl and Fukushima. I believe Dana Durnfurd. I was near Chernobyl in 1989. I drank the water...I was in Arco, Idaho in 2017. I drank the water. No, I'm not doing well at all, but it could be hundreds of factors, converging on a relatively exhausted biosystem. Thanks for writing back. Btw, MIT was prominent in the nanobot movement too, the dumb dust initiative. As a species I think we have 3-5 more years, not more and possibly less. And I'm not happy about it! ✌️

[@Just.A.T-Rex]

No the Pacific Ocean is not. Watch the whole mit nuclear lecture series. The whole of Pacific Ocean in comparison to the little amount of Fukushima radiation is exponential magnitudes more then is needed to make it safe. The ocean is naturally more radiated from the sun then it ever could be from the radiated water releases.

[@a_diamond]

What do you think of the zone and it's potential dangers now that Ukraine *has* been a warzone for about a year now?

[@roehector]

I still laughed at the radiation poisoning joke

[@NefariousEnough]

Thank you. 👍

[@philiproseel3506]

Chernobyl was a human tragedy, of course. What I wonder about is: have we increased our knowledge of radiation since? Have any technologies improved since? As unfortunate as warfare is, it is often a creator of beneficial technologies and I have to believe, or hope, that humanity has made strides because of Chernobyl.

[@zaratrusta79]

So graffiti and vandalism is the huge depressing problem in Pripyat, huh?? Not the fact that it is still a ghost radioactive town at the mercy of corruption and plutocrats whom after nearly 4 decades still have an unstable situation at Chernobyl? That's not a depressing problem at all - it's the graffitis...

[@riso9059]

Corruption? Tf are you on about

[@riso9059]

And wtf do you mean "unstable"

[@carlschiel4754]

Watching this in 2021, I didn't expect radiation was making him cough. I suspected the Covid.

[@Djdjyou9326]

Not great, not terrible

[@lutherblisseth217]

So did I. See my comment.