280 SL vs. 500 & 560

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[@JPER-cv2lq]

I worked, serviced , repaired and maintained all of these wonderful Mercedes in my Mercedes Benz garage in Pasadena California established in 1959 well into the late 90s . Your information is outstanding.

[@zenjamin6262]

Pierre is like a Mercedes nothing needs changing perfect as it stands.... he is built solid and quality is un matched he is officially a Mercedes sauvant!

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Thank you!!

[@LilyoftheValeyrising]

I agree with you Pierre. Although I don’t know a lot about 113’s. I’ve always wanted one. I didn’t know the 107 was more rigid/tough/well built than the 113. That was interesting! I do like the chrome and build quality of the 107. It’s just amazing! The THUD of the doors! People comment a lot when they hear me close the doors of my little tank! Also you can take stuff apart and it goes back together flawlessly, whereas newer cars all the fasteners break and it never looks the same or the gaps show. Not with my 107!

[@thisisnightshop2037]

The 113 can be tricky to reassemble too.

[@LilyoftheValeyrising]

Pierre Hedary wow! I haven’t taken the dash apart yet, so I probably don’t know what I’m talking about. Lol

[@Aotearoa_Kiwi]

The W113 is DEFINITELY the more desirable of the two cars. Despite loving my R107, I wish I had a W113 ... but they cost four times the price!

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Exactly...lol

[@thebulgarianguy8461]

I never warmed up to the 107. Maybe because it was produced for too long. By mid 80s it was already outperformed by the competition. It always seemed to me like there should've been a model between the 107 and 129. The 113 is a masterpiece.

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Replacing the 107 was a huge challenge for Mercedes.

[@chrispoulson3215]

Shouldn't the R107's designers and engineers be given the respect and appreciation they deserve? The R107 saved the roadster concept. The SL legend might easily have ended abruptly with the W113. The R107 doesn't have the exquisiteness of the Pagoda model but it does have a timeless quality about it. It still looks fresh and relevant on the roads today in a way that the W113 doesn't. The reality is that the R107, designed with V8s from launch, ticked all the boxes required in its target market, the USA. It had virtually no competition within its market segment throughout its entire production run and was a "classic" before the last one rolled off the production line.

[@matthewvasquez9278]

The R107 back then is like owning a G Wagon, today. Timeless design , minor face-lift, the day will come when the G wagon will fully get designed

[@garythompson2736]

Thank you. Great content. These are two on my favorite Mercedes W113, R107 along with the W114/115. I sold my 1965 230SL that I had since 1978 in 2010, my only regret.

[@g_majano5681]

So much knowledge and well described. Thank you for your time

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

thank you!

[@12pagani]

The r107 is what got me I to Mercedes but was not impressed with the interior quality vs a w126. And they rust pretty badly in my area. But I figured out something. The 560 sl had the nicest interiors in leather and all the options, I can find a clean smog exempt 380 450 sl or SLC and transplant all of the 560 sl parts into it, wiring and all. Then euro 560 engine and full on catless tri y exhaust. I may finally get my silver on red r107 that way

[@thisisnightshop2037]

I like your idea esp. with an SLC.

[@gerryfimiani4504]

Great comparison Pierre, I just purchased a w-107, SL500 love it!!!The 72 280SE is another story. Thanks for the informative video.....

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Thank you for your purchase :):)

[@ronalddean3630]

Outstanding. The comparison was very helpful. At this point, I will enjoy the 113's as part of my metal die-cast model collection. I am awaiting a signal red 1/18 scale 560SL to arrive on my doorstep. 😆 I am looking for a 1/1 scale 107 to drive.

[@billsansalone8417]

I have a 560SL, 380SL and two 280 SL'S and love all of them!!

[@THIRSTYGUMS]

Awesome in depth look, learned a lot

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Thank you

[@tomburke1687]

Excellent and interesting review------2 great automobiles !! Thanks Pierre

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Thank you

[@silverstarrestorations1633]

Good Video Pierre .!! Euro 500SL 's are a great ride but so are the W107 280 SL "s with a 5 speed. The one I am looking for is the early 450SLC 5.0 rare hard to find . Don't be pushing those cars around by yourself you will wind up like me with bad KNEE'S Just had my right knee replaced last week .

[@cfrayre6572]

Awesome video. Thank you for providing an elaborate description of these cars: fun to watch. Big fan of your channel.

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Thank you

[@ItsTimePictures]

If I wanted a convertible I am pretty sure I'd want the next model, the 129 (SL500) due to the huge improvements in comfort and convenience. Those rides are sexy as hell, much faster and the auto top is soooo much nicer than doing it manually.

[@thisisnightshop2037]

The r129 is a tough car to restore. I would caution anyone about getting one unless is a low mileage late version

[@ronalddean3630]

Sure they are great looking, but beware the top operation with its failing cylinders has been horrible for many people. As I understand it, the rubber pieces used in the cylinder are not very good quality and degrade and particles contaminate the fluid. This leads to tops getting stuck halfway up or down, or worse hydraulic fluid leaking into the interior and all over the driver. Give me a manual top any day. There is not much to do.

[@ronalddean3630]

@@thisisnightshop2037 and research the MB forums on the top. There is someone who can rebuild the cylinders.

[@wesleyaponte-gonzalez678]

I really prefer the cosmetics and build structure of the 113 but I know if you want speed. The r107 is the route. But I find the exhaust note of the 280sl buzzing to just be heart pounding exciting (:

[@thisisnightshop2037]

I think we need to take my.280 on a road trip

[@obiisiguzo7414]

@@thisisnightshop2037 give me your 280 !.... lol 😝

[@wesleyaponte-gonzalez678]

It would be very cool to do so! Count me in. I’m excited to see the car !

[@ronalddean3630]

@@thisisnightshop2037 what time and day should I be ready? 😉

[@victorvaughn2]

Fantastic video. fantastic presentation. Thanks!

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Thank you

[@MrFlyingguy]

spoken with authority....respect from england.....i drive m110 D Tronik w114 coupe;...

[@thisisnightshop2037]

280ce!!! Awesome!!!!

[@bountyflyer]

107 is not a rigid car unless you close the top or put the hard top on. I have a 1981 with absolutely zero rust and low miles. But it shakes like a leaf when the top is off. It’s a good car, I like it non of the less.

[@CL500MBZ]

Good stuff

[@sigtunaguy]

Fascinating!

[@chuckfinley3542]

Hands down the 107s are more attractive if you’re into a Mercedes with a park bench at the front and rear. Lol

[@mericavids]

I always have a place to sit when outside of my 1985 380SL

[@zenjamin6262]

Ouch I will never look at betsy the same again !!! I ENJOY sitting between two park benches ! Is somthing wrong with me ? Do I have a false sense of social acceptance while driving this car ? What shall I do with my life ?

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Those park benches are a great defense mechanism

[@ronalddean3630]

That doesn't bother me. In today's climate of so-called drivers who's attention is focused on texting, phone calls, touch screens, applying make-up, reading the paper, etc. I am glad I would have some protection. Of course, you still have to watch out for the mammoth SUV's

[@ludicrousspeed2824]

Outstanding review

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

thank you

[@alvaropena8562]

Hi Piere,I am a fan of you comments of theMercedes Benz brand.I would like to know what do you think of the 107 SLC and which one in the best model. Best Regards Álvaro Peña,from Bogotá Colombia

[@6DtHAngL6]

I’d like to know where all you people are getting R107 500 SLs...since they weren’t sold in the US. They’re rare as hen’s teeth around here. We got 450s, 380s, and 560s...finding grey-market 500s is a lesson in frustration and mis-labeled eBay auctions. If we’re talking grey-market, let’s talk R107 280 SLs...now that’s a fun car. Or better yet, any R107 with an LS swap... ;)

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Lol...the 500sl is available in the States...you have to look hard but they are here

[@ronalddean3630]

I follow a guy on Instagram, who has a silver 500SL who lives in Germany. Beautiful vehicle!

[@obiisiguzo7414]

Hi Pierre ! Great video !. Been waiting for this for a while. I guess it seems to boil down to the 113 is a thing for the heart and the 107 is a thing of the head. If you had to have one to drive relatively frequently and for long distances at reasonable ownership cost seems the 107 is it. But for long term value and overall desirability the 113 seems to win.

[@thisisnightshop2037]

That's correct. I own both the Slc and the 113. And they are both good

[@zenjamin6262]

I'm pierrs biggest fan !!!!

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

+Zen Jamin LOL thank you so much. Thomas

[@ditiromotene2582]

Hey can I get your advice on a purchase

[@dariusdevonking]

thinking of a name for my 560

[@gusibrahim6961]

I have them both, I keep cleaning the 280sl and eventually I drive the 560sl. These 2 cars like the Americans and the the British, one nation separated by the same language!!!

[@thisisnightshop2037]

That's a great analogy

[@sixpoint3]

Don't forget the W/R107 line has a 280SL also which is the M110 motor driven european model

[@randyphillips2263]

Yes, I have one of those. They are European spec autos.

[@thisisnightshop2037]

They are amazing cars. We have one in the shop that I want to do a video on

[@johncovington2653]

I have a 72 350/450 SL. Driver quality but no rust. How does this compare to the 560 models?

[@thisisnightshop2037]

The early 107 is a more.pure design. I especially love the 350

[@jackryan2542]

Is that a crack in the left side of the front sub-frame @ 4:34?

[@Aotearoa_Kiwi]

Well spotted!

[@Oregon696969]

Isn't that a known common defect?

[@thisisnightshop2037]

I hope not...I will look ! Thank you

[@jackryan2542]

@@Oregon696969 The known defect is the early 80's US model cars was weak connection points where the lower control arms bolt to the sub frame. The tab could bend, crack, or even break off of the car got curbed real hard. MB offered gusset plates to weld in and reinforce the tabs.

[@ronalddean3630]

@@Oregon696969 Yes! A common defect and you beat me to it. I have not heard Pierre mention this before. I have all kinds of notes on that. I even have a copy of a letter from Mercedes to their customers, owners of some versions of the 107. "Actually the U.S. DOT or NHTSA negotiated a settlement with Mercedes. This only covered 450SL/SLCs sold in the U.S. by MB. Fair or not that is what the MB company line is." And "M-B began using a strengthened, redesigned subframe in model year 1986. ALL prior subframes in any engine configuration 107 are susceptible to failure at the lower A-arm mounting tabs." "The reinforcement was accomplished by welding in gussetts designed to give additional support to the A-arm mounting tabs." @jackryan2542 asked about what looks like a crack on the left side of the sub-frame. I looked again and I did see something. Probably not, else Pierre would have said something I am sure.

[@cardiffchris]

Julie Andrews drove a 280SL in the 1980 Movie "10"

[@steves4639]

Julie Christie drove one in 'Shampoo'

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Audrey Hepburn...two for the road!

[@tymwalt]

Pierre - I have to say, mechanically, my 1977 450SL has been stellar. It definitely feels like a 'tough' car. I'm lucky have have advice and help from my friends at Star Garage (Margate) & you of course! Considering I'm $11k into it after almost 4 years, I'm doing well so far. (which includes custom touches you may or may not agree with). Question. Is a 500SL or 560SL 'that' much better than a 450SL performance wise. I'm happy with mine but sometimes, I get jealous of the rarity of the 500SL or the modern touches of a late model 560SL. It seems that prices are all over the place. Sometimes I wish I had the more modern touches but overall, I think I'm doing ok.

[@thisisnightshop2037]

The 560 is a better performer but the 4.5 engine is tougher. 560 is more fuel efficient but needs premium

[@umadathdoon8226]

HI Sir I have 1972/280s/6yl Having problem with leaky carb need rebuilding (gum up) Car is stored ? How to remove these 2 carb to rebuild The outer4 bolt is ok but the inner can't get to it Help with thahks

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

Hello, +Umadath Doon and thank YOU so much for your question(s), we want to answer you as quickly as possible. By signing in our Patreon www.patreon.com/thomaspolk page and making a donation of $10 your are assured of a 24 hour email response from Pierre. If you are already a $10 member please mention along with your question.

[@johnjmeister]

Thanks Pierre. I will never sell my W113.

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

thats what I tell myself

[@chriselley2261]

Owned mine for 25 years. She’s off getting a multi-year nut and bolt restoration now. Can’t wait to have her back and, agree, will never sell.

[@rickperrotta]

Hi Pierre, You need to get yourself a lav mic.

[@henryovalles7311]

107 is a car u look at in a garage the 113 is a u look at then get in and drive no worries..

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

either one

[@charlestimmis273]

I prefer the W114 coupe over the W113 .. I feel that the W113 is more a girly car. too small...

[@clarkkent2913]

The 107 is a shortened sedan without a roof whilst the 113 is a sports car. Joubert x said it right. I prefer the girlfriend...

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

lol! i like them both...is that wrong?

[@benkleschinsky]

The real question, will a W115 ever be worth more than a used sofa?

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Yes.

[@waltwilliams6012]

The 380SLs are just as durable.

[@wm9904]

There's no comparison between the 113 and the 107. They're vastly different cars. And the only 129 worth a shit is the sl600

[@kent5563]

G J what 129 hurt you?

[@wm9904]

@@kent5563 why have 8 0r 6 when you can have 12?

[@kent5563]

Why have a 12 that leaks like a faucet and hydraulic suspension that is unreliable at best when you can have an 8 with plenty of power and zero reliability issues?

[@wm9904]

@@kent5563 havent had any problems with mine and will gladly leave any 119 or 104 powered car in the dust. Cheers

[@wan4891]

Ahh....I have a R129 / 320 and am although happy with her (smile).

[@G55STEYR]

You like my 350SLC snow drifts?

[@thisisnightshop2037]

I could use some driving lessons

[@G55STEYR]

I'm in Romania

[@thisisnightshop2037]

@@G55STEYR haha I guess I won't have the opportunity to learn how to snow drift

[@jeeper5264]

I agree..I have a 68 w113 and it is an awesome car on back roads (especially the sound) and around town but on the freeway 70 mph it is screaming along at 4k rpm!..My father had a 107 500 sl and it was such a nice car for road trips and was a very reliable car for its 150k miles he put on it. I think the 107 doesn't get the love it deserves

[@thisisnightshop2037]

In Europe they are better liked but I do agree

[@lilibethdoherty295]

The W113 is a toy compared to the R107, although the gearbox seems to feel more sportscar like than the R107 and Mercedes gave the R107 their most Iconic styling unmatched by anything except the E type Jaguar of 1961.

[@MrMike-vw1oh]

I love my '89 560SL everything else is a KIA to me

[@aaronentresz]

The 107 280SL is a real gem too! Especially if it's a Euro D Jet m110. Quite the performer.

[@Adam-xb9gi]

Love my 107, drive him almost daily as long as thee isn't any snow on the ground

[@Chuckyd26]

Couldnt help to notice the OM616/617 start up in the background at end of video?

[@thisisnightshop2037]

It's a 602.... But it sounds like a 617 bc of camera

[@dieselbenzrevive6820]

Your shop is so nice, filled with all those epic cars WOW. I would like to own the 113 its beautiful. Are the headlights the same on a W115? W113

[@saftevand]

No, they were unique to the W113 and came in 3 variations, rounded sealed beams for US cars and either flat or convex single glass units for the rest of the world :-)

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Both of them look great...but they are similar

[@waynehayes8237]

Gotta live those Tri -Y's

[@12pagani]

Saw that to!!

[@thisisnightshop2037]

You noticed :)

[@justinclark8523]

Suddenly I see it. Or is it just me? You are the Bob Ross of MBZ..

[@justinclark8523]

Of

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Haha hence my screen shot

[@billrbca]

Next you should compare the R129 with the R107, srengths and weaknesses ( i have 90 300SL )

[@alpac2756]

I agree I would love to get Pierre's opinion on the r129 earlier and later models

[@TOONACEDRELA]

Yes please Pierre. Also, can the R129 be considered to be an 'SL' expression of the W124, or not?

[@thisisnightshop2037]

@@TOONACEDRELA in a way yes

[@thisisnightshop2037]

I am.not sure if you guys would like it ...

[@billrbca]

@@thisisnightshop2037 that's ok, your opinions and experience is why i like your channel

[@qvilorio]

Pierre, great video. What about the r107 280sl with the m110?

[@vmlelectronics]

I was about to make the same question... lol

[@thisisnightshop2037]

Those are wonderful cars...esp. with the 5 dpeed

[@jocrp6]

They rally raced the hell out of the 107, The rear control arms are made to pivot on the axle to help prevent oversteer.

[@waltpartymiller6802]

Very well done. Excellent topic, presentation & scenerio. Thank you, Pierre, Thomas.

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

+walt partymiller you’re welcome, thank you so much for watchand commenting if you know anyone else who needs Pierre’s services please let them know about us. Thomas

[@seeburg10]

Thank you Thomas for documenting, sharing and supporting Pierre's work.

[@avivscrewvalla]

BEHOLD!!! Can't stand the R107...I'd pick a R129 any day of the week!

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

well, they are not for everyone

[@cranno99]

Excellent!! Great comparison Pierre. Thomas, great atmosphere and look shot with a bit wider lens 👌 get to see more of the cars in the workshop.

[@thisisnightshop2037]

I knew they would like it

[@nosoupforyou425]

Great information and breakdown guys 👍

[@mknmike]

Anti squat rear end was not a option, but came on the higher torque and shorter wheel base cars. All euro 4.5, no NO US 4.5, Euro 380sl, no 380slc or US 380sl got anti-squat. All 5.0 and 5.6 got anti squat, and no 6 cylinder or 3.5 got anti-squat. I can’t remember if the 420sl got anti-squat, but logically they should. I am interested in putting anti-squat in my stick shift r107 cars.

[@thisisnightshop2037]

That's correct only our 560 got.it

[@ronalddean3630]

I saw a 107 for sale yesterday online, and when he accelerated, the back end squatted big time. 🤔 I don't think that is good.

[@mknmike]

@@thisisnightshop2037 correct IN THE US. However, the following EURO 107 models got anti-squat: - 450sl/SLC - 500sl/SLC (and 450slc 5.0) - 380sl (NOT the 380slc, even euro) - I also assume that the 420sl got it but never checked.

[@mknmike]

@@ronalddean3630 And that’s a good reason to get one with anti-squat.

[@JP-mu3xl]

Great car other than the 190's were underpowered

[@frankvanaelst]

What about the 380?

[@BaronWeber1]

Just found your channel, great information. As a Mercedes owner and a 107 fan this was good stuff, thank you.

[@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753]

thank you for tuning in Edward!

[@rbtoj]

Whats your take on the SLC? It seems to be pretty much ignored in the US, but apparently the germans are quite fond of it - or so I heard...

[@TOONACEDRELA]

Yes. Another interesting topic.

[@thisisnightshop2037]

I own two of them, so...:)

[@stuartkennedy4570]

You need a new cameraman

[@thisisnightshop2037]

You need a new attitude