Can you beat C10-Acrobatic WR with a low input strat?

[@rezalic]

Now beat a01 wr with lis gogo🔥

[@Sealdoge]

This ages very well with the new cut

[@rezalic]

@Sealdoge lis to get the back wheel lift hold ooooon

[@vonix9199]

​@rezalic did anyone even do it with TAS?

[@anonym5160]

I like such TAS ideas

[@snakephil7921]

He`s destroying every map, w** dude, good job man!!!

[@Bartsims-ek4gs]

0:57 fart noise

[@smbfelix9470]

When does a LIS become a normal strat/run. When we are already at the point that a 7 input starttrick is considered a LIS. Sure, one can repeat these same timed inputs over and over, but this just feels like a strat, not a low-input strat. I hope you understand what i mean, the line is just so thin between LIS and a normal thought through strat.

[@spitfirex2599]

its mainly about the fact that someone went through the effort to find a set input chain to find a specific result

[@liepshene2]

I would expect on a map like this for it to be considered ""Low Input"" It would need to be around 8 inputs maximum. It feels like there is a termonology missing for strats that have a time basic input as opposed to being a low input strat

[@pastagrows]

At this point the name should be something like "knew inputs beforehand strat", and that is probably the main issue for many. If you had to do 6 inputs start + end manually here, it is by no means easier than normal run.

[@VIUN_RL]

Very random comment, but I think there's potential for lis to exist in C03 too. What do you think?

[@pastagrows]

It also crossed my mind, but even TAS is only 0.08 ahead, and with time losses you get with LIS due to not optimal lines, it likely won't work.

[@DoktorDreistein]

@@pastagrows try the shortcut

[@thund3r0904]

maybe an lis for the lower air time reduction at cp1 on a05 can be possible

[@Lexio0o]

💀💀

[@Evan-Delauney-Meyer]

I think a lis start then normal end is the best. Maybe a 3-4 input start could give you enough attempts for a wr in a reasonable amount of time

[@indomitablesloth2437]

Could you LIS the track by using the WR going-backwards route, or is that not possible?

[@pastagrows]

Yeah that could work too, finding inputs to do reverse start slightly faster. However, it could require same amount of inputs as overwall for potentially even smaller advantage.

[@UI-4054]

remember u on LHL server)

[@Mandarin9900]

Do you think LIS runs should be part of the leaderboards? Runs done with outside timer help should be disallowed? I'm genuinely asking because of curiosity, and it's my fault for not being able to ask in a way that isn't a loaded question. Thanks.

[@pastagrows]

It's a tough one. LIS is something like the final evolution of many speedruning games, where WRs are so optimized that you need to copy TAS to improve. But I don't think LIS in this game is actually the fastest because of its limiting factors. In the end, separate categories is an okay solution. I don't think any outside software to help you hit the timings should be allowed. Part of doing LIS in TM is analysing the track and finding the best visual and audio cues to increase your chance of hitting the input.

[@Mandarin9900]

@@pastagrows I agree with everything. Thanks for framing it in a better way than I could. All is the question now, how can slower, but LIS runs be policed on the leaderboard. For example if a slower LIS time is submitted to the normal leaderboard on purpose, but not recognizable immediately

[@Mandarin9900]

@@pastagrows Also, what do you think of allowing LIS runs to flood the leaderboard? Should there only be one, whoever makes it first and whoever comes up with the timings first? Or could everyone be on the leaderboard with the same strat?

[@pastagrows]

@@Mandarin9900 The current solution is just not accepting runs that have 8 or less inputs. Which works well unless map is too short and even normal run could have a lower number of inputs. This filters it out, but in general, LIS run is easily spotted by intentionally not doing optimal lines. Some people were saying that leaderboards would be filled with a same time runs. However, that is not true, because you can almost always add more inputs to LIS to make it faster.

[@Mandarin9900]

@@pastagrows thanks again, I figured that would be the case

[@l0gica]

pasta this is one of the tracks i wanna go for when im done with A12, so pls dont do this 😭 jk gogo

[@Anthonythechickenman]

please no